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A87595 A sober word to a serious people: or, A moderate discourse respecting as well the Seekers, (so called) as the present churches. Wherein the difference between them touching visible administrations, is discovered and discussed: and may serve as a plea for the nations ministery. / By a lover of truth and peace. Jackson, John. 1651 (1651) Wing J78A; ESTC R202618 52,789 71

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the Word which requires outward obedience so far as the demonstration and power of the Spirit comes so far are we taught and enabled outwardly to obey Now the demonstration of the Spirit is as I conceive the Spirits evidencing and making manifest the true intent and minde of the Apostles in the Ministery as it did evidence and make manifest its own minde in their Administrations when they did administer Now the Apostles they spake by the Spirit and had the minde of Christ He therefore that will interpret their minde in their Ministery which was none other but the minde of Christ must do it by the power demonstration and evidence of the same Spirit by which they spake which was unerring and infallible 1 Cor. 2.11 12 16 Who knows the minde of a man but the spirit of a man c. Again though it might be supposed that there were a clear demonstration of the Spirit yet without the power of the same Spirit believers were not sufficiently furnished to obedience Luke 24.45 49. Act. 1.2 4. Acts 10.38 This Power I take to be a power of Authority as well as Ability Matth. 28.18 and this Authority and Ability are both required at least in some of the branches of a believers obedience In particular the business of the Ministery and the Administrations which are particular to a Church I conceive are such as unto which there is required in whomsoever they may concern a clear understanding by the Spirit so as to be able to say I have the minde of Christ and Thus speaks the Lord and not I. A true Power of Authority as well as Ability to do that work which they say by the Spirit is their duty to do Luke 24.45 49. Acts 4.7 Matth. 9.6 8. A clear evidence and manifestation thereof not onely in themselves but to manifest to others for their profit 1 Cor. 12.7 Now if there be such Believers who not onely touching their own personal estate and condition but also touching Visible Administrations of Publike Worship can say in truth by the Spirit We have the minde of Christ and This speaks the Lord and not we and have also a true and lawful authority to act those things they say they know I shall leave such persons to the trial of their spirits and not doubt but to be able to see that spirit demonstrating it self to the world either in them or others to the praise and glory of the God and Father of spirits In the mean time I shall conceive that whatsoever in the Word is required of believers to do personally as believers that ought to be endeavoured after by every one that is truely so But whatsoever is relatively appropriated to persons as such and such due regard is to be had to God's Order and Dispensation there according to the limits and bounds he hath set Better it is to be fed of Ravens or fast fourty days then distrusting God's provision turn stones into bread Read 1 Sam. 13.11 12 13 a fair pretence but he that believeth maketh not haste Quest Whether those Signes and Wonders whereby God manifested his presence with the Apostles Quest were not rather to confirm their Word and Doctrine then to bear witness to their persons being sent Heb. 2.4 Answ It is in my understanding a truth Answ that those Signes and Wonders were to confirm their Word and Doctrine Mark 16.20 but the case is evident that the works which God wrought by them were not onely to confirm their Word but also to testifie of their Persons that they were sent of God Joh. 5.36 The works which the Father hath given me to finish the same works that I do bear witness of me that the Father hath sent me compared with Joh. 20.21 As my Father sent forth me so I send forth you Joh. 17.18 If the Father sent forth Christ and the works which Christ did testified of him that he was sent of God Joh. 11.42 then Christ sending forth his Disciples as the Father sent forth him Acts 4.13 14 16 the works which they do testifie of them that they are sent of Christ as the works which he did testified of him that he was sent of God 2 Cor. 12.12 The signes of an Apostle were wrought among you c. Quest Seeing gifts are given to profit withal Quest and talents to be improved How according to Rule and Order may the Saints edifie one another and improve their talents for the honour of Jesus Christ out of a Church-estate 1 Cor. 12.7 Answ Such as the gifts and talents be which are given Answ such must the improvement of them be for the honour of Christ I pray you consider the Scripture you have quoted 1 Cor. 12. Where those gifts of the Spirit which are there spoken of are to be found there need not be any care taken how to improve them out of a Church for surely then and there will be a glorious Church where and when those gifts of the Spirit are given to profit with Where there is given by the Spirit a word of Wisdom a word of Knowledge a gift of Faith a gift of Healing a gift of Miracles a gift of Prophecie a gift of discerning of Spirits a gift of Tongues and Interpretation of Tongues when the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every one to profit withal as the Scripture expresseth then there will be an Orderly Administration and an Effectual Operation to the honour of Jesus Christ In the mean time I could desire the Lord's people to consider of that thing they call Gift or Gifts and try by what Name or Title they may be distinguished or called Whether any of these before mentioned or some other If not these but some other I would consider what it is Whether it be given to them to believe Phil. 1.29 to hope joy suffer pray to distribute to the Lord 's poor to bear the burden of the afflicted to mourn over the desolations of the Israel of God to wait for the Day of Restoration to long to groan in expectation for the Day of the Lord. Now if the gifts you speak of be of the first kinde mentioned in 1 Cor. 12. they bring manifestation enough with them to direct to the improvement of them and where-ever they are found surely a Church of Christ is not far off If they be of the later sort I conceive the Spirit of the Lord whose gifts they are is not wanting to manifest to such to whom they are given how they in their measure may be improved to the glory of him that is the author of them But yet a few words more particularly to what I conceive may be the scope of the Question The Apostle in 1 Cor. 10.6 11. speaking of the Jews and that which befel them saith Those things happened to them in types and Whatsoever was written before-time was written for our learning Now it is to be noted that in their travelling condition while they were
which shal not break my head But if thou shalt be found reproaching in stead of reproving and wounding in stead of smiting I hope my God will teach me to say as he did also vers 3. Set a watch O Lord before my mouth and keep the door of my lips Reader thou art desired to correct these Errata with thy Pen. Pag. 2. lin 37. for 26. 5 read 46. 5. p. ibid. l. 17. adde the. p. 5. l. 1. for these read the. p. 7. l. 31. for certain numbers read a certain number p. 20. l. 12. for cast r. cost p. 25. l. 9. for 12. 8. r. 21. 8. p. ibid. l. 33. for Translations r. Translators p. 33. l. 2. for person r. persons p. 36. l. 7. for had r. was p. 39. l. 12. adde of p. 47. l. 24. for 2 Cor. 4.5 r. 1 Cor. 2.4 5. p. 48. l. 15 for particular r. peculiar p. 57. l. 25. for 10. 25. r. 11. 25. A SOBER WORD TO A SERIOUS PEOPLE AMongst those many Discourses which have offered themselves to Publike View in these discoursing Times there have not been wanting several that have asserted the Saints priviledges in their enjoyment of Ordinances Some Moderately Others more Smartly and with less Moderation though with no less Confidence The Entertainment these Discourses have met with I am apt to believe hath been as various That which I have observed in them is that they have frequently taken notice of some that differ from them calling them Seekers Touching whom many things are said by way of Answer to several Objections which are said to be theirs though it be not so demonstrable from any thing yet extant which they if any such there be have owned as theirs Nevertheless in the serious perusal of those very Objections and their several Answers which are exhibited to Publike view there doth seem to lie something not so clear on the Answerers part as is imagined and as were to be wished To shew in all things where this Shortness doth seem at least to lie would require more time then is alotted to me in respect of other employments I shall therefore abbreviate many things and as briefly as I can shall endeavour to shew where I have observed the main difference to be placed The Seekers I do finde are charged with this That they are a people who deny all Ordinances and the Evil of that Evil is laid down and aggravated by several Persons in several Books and in the last most of all These are again distinguished into such as are against all Ordinances or that see not sufficient ground for the present practice of Ordinances or such as are above and beyond Ordinances For the former those which are against i. e. contrary to them they are very improperly called Seekers For the later they which are above and beyond them these are so far from Seeking that they are rather Possessors Enjoyers and Attainers then Seekers properly so called The third sort are such as not seeing a sufficient ground for the practice of Ordinances are said to seek them And is it not their Mercy that most High should give them a heart to seek him for wisdom and counsel and directions touching those things they see not sufficient ground for the present practise of And is it not according to the Apostle's Rule If any man want wisdom he should ask or seek it of God who giveth liberally and upbraideth not In a good sence it is a good thing to be a Seeker In a bad sence it 's not to be applied to them which seek the Lord in sincerity for wisdom how to walk before him Of this sort of Persons and this sort of Seeking this present Discourse onely treats And touching them it may be observed that these Seekers so called are not alike unsatisfied concerning the practise of all Ordinances There are onely some wherein they see not sufficient ground for their present practise There are others which they themselves do practise Viz. First They believe that it is an appointment from the Lord Jesus and that wherein they ought to excercise themselves in searching the Testimonies of the Holy Writings of Truth concerning the minde of God touching things to be believed and practised So did the Eunuch and God met him therein Act. 8.28 to the 25. according to Isa 46.5 Secondly They judge the same touching Prayer and distributing to the necessity of those that want according to Act. 10.1 2 c. hoping to enjoy God both in the former and latter duties and Ordinances of his This is not onely practised personally and privately but as occasion offers by coming together into some place on the First-dayes and at other times as their hearts are drawn forth and opportunity is offered Their ends in so doing and grounds for so doing are these First That they may be Instruments in the hand of the Lord to stir up the grace of God in one another by mutual conference and communication of experiences according to Mal. 3.16 Heb. 10.22 23 24 25. Secondly That they may poure out their complaints to the God and Father of Spirits for the further revelation of himself according to Act. 1.4 16 17 20. Ezek. 36.37 Jam. 5.6 Thridly That they may keep alive and hold out in their measure their witness and testimony against the false and waite for the manifestation of the true Lord Jesus in his pure Ordinances of Ministery and Worship according to Daniel 3.16 17 18. Dan. 6.10 Psal 137 thorowout Expressing their deep sence of the want of what they enjoy not behaving themselves as persons having neither power or gift to go one before another by way of Eminency or Authority but as Sheep unfolded and as Souldiers unrallied waiting for a time of gathering and restitution to the knowledge of what as yet they understand not and the attainment of this is the end of their seeking and to this they stirre up and provoke one another and herein they desire to be found hoping firmely to the end according to the first of Pet. 1.13 Owning nor acknowledging no other visibe Teacher but the Word and Works of God on whom they wait for the Grace which is to be brought at the Revelation of Jesus Christ By which it doth appear that though they come not up to the full of what others say they enjoy in respect of Ministery and Worship yet they are not against them or beyond or above them But comparing such as say they are and have such by the Scriptures of Truth declare themselves to be desirers though not discerners of them Such who though they cannot say they sing the Songs of Sion yet do hang their Harpes upon the Willowes and weep at the remembrance of her to see how like a Plowed field she lies and how her Stones lie covered over with Rubbish Those other Ordinances wherein they do not see sufficient ground for their Practice may be comprehended in these two The present Churches and the present Ministery
Chron. 7.16 17 18 19 20 21 22 may be seen at large the Covenant God made with Solomon touching the Temple and its continuance For now have I chosen and sanctified this house that my Name may be there for ever and my eyes and my heart shall be there perpetually And as for thee if thou wilt walk before me as David thy father walked and do according to all I command thee then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom according as I have covenanted with David thy father But if ye turn away and forsake my statutes and my commandments which I have set before you and go and serve other gods and worship them then I will pluck them up by the roots and this house will I cast out of my sight and make it to be a Proverb and a by-word among all nations The same thing is declared by the Lord to Asa in 2 Chron. 15.2 Hear ye me Asa and all Judah and Benjamin the Lord is with you while ye be with him if ye seek him he will be found of you but if you for sake him he will forsake you Which thing the Lord did accomplish to a tittle as to their external enjoyments both as concerning their Land their Temple and all their outward glory Now from the preceding passages of the Scripture it doth appear that the Lord when he made any promise of an external concernment or consideration it did alwayes import that man was bound as well on his part to a holy and faithful and obedient walking with God as he was to expect a faithful performance on Gods part of the thing promised and that a neglect on mans part did necessarily infer a disobligement on Gods part The Lord is with you while you are with him but if you forsake him he will forsake you 2 Chron. 15.2 Or as to Eli He that honoureth me I will honour but he that dispiseth me shall be lightly esteemed 1 Sam. 2.30 Nor doth it seem to have been his minde of Old onely as under that dispensation but in the very place mentioned Matth. 28. vers the last besides the equity of the thing that very Scripture holds forth no less then what hath been already propounded For there as he promiseth to be with them all the dayes to the end of the world so he commanded that they should continue teaching the nations to observe all things whatsoever he had commanded them For he saith not Teach the nations to observe all things but teaching which being a Participle of the present tense signifieth the doing and continuance in doing the thing which is commanded and whereunto the promise of his presence is annexed So that if Christ did promise his presence with a Ministery to the end of the world it was with them teaching the nations to observe all things whatsoever he had commanded them or with such a Ministery as did teach and baptize the nations and continue teaching them to observe all things whatsoever he had commanded them But if that Ministery in stead of teaching the nations whatsoever Christ commanded should either cease to teach the nations at all or teach them that which Christ commanded them not or should teach them to observe the precepts of men in stead of the commandments of Christ the continuance of the presence of Christ with such a Ministery is not to be concluded upon as if it were entailed upon it by this Scripture But rather that equity of God held forth in the former Scriptures is to take place here Him that honoureth me I will honour but he that dispiseth me shall be lightly esteeemed And this is not onely true with respect to the Nations Ministery or the Ministery appointed by Christ to teach and baptize the nations but also touching the Ministery in the Churches That if they also continue not in the Doctrine of Christ or shall not continue teaching to observe all things what Christ hath commanded them His presence is not obliged to to be with them neither Rev. 2. vers 1 compared with the fifth the truth of this to be extended both to Church and Ministery as of old to the Priesthood and the Temple and no unrighteousness to be fixed upon God neither then nor now for suffering them to be eclipsed or discontinued Forasmuch as they ceased to honour God no wonder if God cease to honour them with his presence and when they began to dispise him he also lightly esteemed of them And this hath been the condition of the Christian Churches and Ministery and so it 's like to be until the day of the Restauration It 's also to be remembred that a people by their misusing of a mercy or blessing may draw upon themselves a discontinuance of that blessiing or mercy for a season which may not extend so far as to an annihilation or extirpation thereof but that it may have its possibility of restauration and in due time its real accomplishment It 's said touching the Land of Canaan Gen. 17.8 I will give to thee and thy seed after thee the land of thy sojourning all the land of Canaan for an everlasting possession Gen. 48.4 Yet it is not unknown how this promise which seemes to be made to them absolutely hath by their sinnings and transgressions against God at all times not been performed but that people have been spewed out even by their own Land according as it was intimated to them by Moses Levit. 18.28 That the land spew not you out also when you defile it as it spewed out the nations that were before you Levit. 20.22 Which thing he also accomplished according to his word by Ieremiah Chap. 7.15 16 19 and many other places which had its particular fulfilling in their several Captivities under Hoshea Salmaneser and Zedekiah But though they were deprived of their possessions for a time yet not of their right of inheritance that was theirs still and accordingly after their land had fulfilled her Sabbaths and they had continued in their banished condition according to their time appointed seventy years they were returned into their own land as it is called according to the Word of the Lord. So was it touching their Temple-state God had said 2 King 9.3 I have hallowed this house which thou hast built to put my Name there for ever and mine eyes and my heart shall be there perpetually 2 Chron. 7.16 Now as the extent or duration of this Temple and its worship was to expire in the fulness of time as all other legal Ministrations were in the appearing of the Lord Jesus and the substituting of the Christian Church and Ministery yet before this time was fully come wherein the Veil of the Temple was to be rent and Moses to be buried as to his Administration I say Before this time was accomplished this Temple and its Worship fell under a Discontinuance and Disuse by reason of the sins of the Priests and People according as the Lord had said in 2 Chron.