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A06346 A treatie of the churche conteining a true discourse, to knowe the true church by, and to discerne it from the Romish church, and all other false assemblies, or counterfet congregations / vvritten by M. Bertrande de Loque ... ; and faithfully translated out of French into English, by T.VV. Loque, Bertrand de.; T. W. 1581 (1581) STC 16812; ESTC S123131 175,246 422

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Matth. 26.3 and Elders of the people assembled themselues together into the Hall of the high Priest named Caiaphas and helde a Councel how they might take Iesus Christ by subtiltie and put him to death Certainly by these examples it is plainly proued that if it were sufficient to alledge the multitude the greatest number for to vnderproppe and vpholde a Church the false and bastardly Church shoulde euer preuaile in the matter get the better in that respecte because that the number which cleaueth to it and followeth and maintayneth it is alwayes the greatest August in Psalm 128. Let vs adde here a sentence of Saint Augustine From the time saith hee that the Saintes haue begun to be the Church hath beene and is on the earth Sometimes it was in Abel alone who was slaine by his wicked brother Cain Sometime it was in Henoch alone who was reiected of the vngodlie Sometimes it was in the onely house of Noah and he bare with or suffered all them that perished in the floude and the Arke swimming vpon the floudes was saued and set vpon the drie land Sometime in one onely Abraham of whome we knowe thus much that he suffered manie thinges by the wicked Sometimes in Lott alone and in his onely house in the middest of the Sodomites whose iniquities and vngodlinesse he indured and suffered so long till God drewe him as it were by violence from among them Sometimes in the onely Israelites tormented by Pharaoh and the Egyptians By these wordes that appeareth verie well to be true and right which I haue said to wit that the Church ought not to bee iudged or acknowledged by the great number The faithfull then shoulde not at this day bee offended though they bee but a small number despised and cast out as the filth and ofscouring of the worlde for because they are not of the worlde Iohn 15.19 but that God hath chosen and drawen them out of the worlde therefore beholde doth the world hate them They shoulde not doubte that the Church is not with them though that it be assaulted and persecuted of the greatest number of men and those the mightiest of greatest reputation and highest exalted and namely of the popes Cardinals Bishoppes 1 Cor. 1.27.28.29 parishe Priestes Abbots and other of the cleargie of Rome who indeede ought to maintaine and vpholde it For so it is that GOD hath chosen the foolish thinges of this world to confound the wise things the weake or feeble things to confounde the strong and the vile and despised thinges and those thinges which are not to bring to naught things that are to the ende that no fleshe shoulde reioyce in his presence Psal 118.22 Matt. 21.42 1. Pet. 2.7 And on the otherside the prophecies must of necessitie be wholy accomplished touching the stone which the builders beganne long agoe to reiect and which euen at this day they doe also refuse although it be the master stone or cheife stone of the corner in Sion elect pretious in them which stay them selues thereon and be builded vpon it But some will say wherefore then is it that God hath heretofore suffered so many people in so many ages and times to bee seduced and deceiued Yea wherefore doeth he at this day suffer the greater parte of the worlde to walke in the darkenesses of errour and ignorance Verily it is not our part to take vppon vs either to discouer or curiouslie to search the secrete causes of Gods eternal iudgement neither yet to laye or cast vppon him the faulte of our naughtinesse and vngodlines for certaine it is that hee doeth moste iustly gouerne and guide all thinges and therefore cannot doe iniurie or wronge to any man what so euer he doe Psal 51.5 Ephe. 2.3 seeing that wee are all conceiued and borne in iniquitie and are by nature the children of wrath guiltie of death and eternall damnation And therefore Saint Paule in fewe wordes dissoluing this difficultie contenteth himselfe to alledge the onely will and good pleasure of god without ascēding or going vp higher so much as one steppe Act. 14 1● Act. 17.30 GOD saith hee in times passed hath suffered all the Gentiles to walke in their owne wayes Neuerthelesse hee lefte not him selfe without witnesse in that hee did good c. And agayne The time of this ignorance God regarded not but nowe he admonisheth all men euery where to repent Notwithstanding also we may rightly say that God suffereth Sathan to haue so much power and might in the worlde as that he shoulde beare sway raigne ouer the greater parte to the end that he might thereby through his iust iudgement punishe men for their vnthankefulnesse and vnfaithfulnesse For it is not good reason that those which would not hearken vnto God neither receiue the truth which was offered them and who also euen willingly and of their owne accord haue despised and refused their owne saluation is it not meet I say that such shoulde be seduced deceiued through the subtilties and sleightes of the diuell and at the last cast from God and through his iust iudgement punished according as their vngodlinesse vnthankefulnesse deserueth Saint Paul writing vnto the Thessalonians sheweth and putteth downe this reason when hee saith 2. Thess 2.10 That because that they which perishe receiued not the loue of the trueth that they might be saued God shall sende them stronge delusion that they shoulde beleeue lies that all they might be damned which beleeued not the trueth of the word but had pleasure in vnrighteousnesse This also fell sometimes and was laide vpon the Gentiles For from the beginning of the world Rom. 1.20 c. GOD made manifest vnto them his Godhead and his power and although this was not done by the preaching of men yet it was by the ministerie of the creatures in which his glorie was in such sorte manifested and shewed that a man may wel say they had in some sense a tongue as it were to shewe set foorth and rehearse the great power and the wonderfull workes of God But what thereof These straglers strayers hauing knowne God did not glorifie him as GOD neither yelded him thankes but became vaine in their imaginations and discourses and so foorth as Saint Paule sheweth of them in the first Chapter to the Romanes Who will then at this day say that GOD hath done them wrong when he giueth them ouer to the lustes of their owne heartes to filthinesse and their owne villanous affections through a spirite destitute and vnfurnished of all iudgement to commit things at no hand conuenient or seemely he punishing them after this manner according to their deserts and his owne most iust righteousnesse The same fell also in time heretofore vpon the poore and miserable Iewes For beholde our Lorde Iesus Christ who of his owne free will presented and offered him selfe vnto them being willing and readie to instruct and teach them in the
the corruption of the Churche see Isaiah 1. verse 21. to the 24. verse Isaiah Isaiah 3. ver 8.9 Isaiah 5.13 Isaiah 30. ver 9. to the 13. ver Isaiah 59. ver 2. vnto the 17. ver Isai 64. ver 6.7 Iere. 2. ver 5. Ieremiah to the end of the Chap. Iere. 3. ver 2.3.20 Iere. 4. ver 22. Ieremiah 5. ver 1. vnto the 15. ver and afterwards from the 19. ver to the end of the Chapter Iere. 6. ver 7. vnto the 11. ver Ieremiah 8. ver 4. vnto the 11. ver Ieremiah 9. ver 3. vnto the 17. ver Ieremiah 13. ver 10. vnto the 15. ver Ieremiah 22. euen vnto the end Ieremiah 16. ver 11.12 Ieremiah 18. ver 13. vnto the 18. ver Ezechiel 5. ver 6. vnto the 12. Ezechiel ver 22. ver 3. vnto the end of the Chapter Ezechiel 33. ver 24. vnto the 30. Deuteron ver Deuteronomie 32. ver 5.6.32.33 Touching the ingratitude and vnthankfulnesse of the Church see Isaiah 1. ver 2.5 Isaiah Isaiah 5. ver 47. Isaiah 43. ver 21. vnto the end of the chapter Isaiah 17. ver 10.11 Isaiah 63. ver 9.10 Ieremiah 2. ver 6.9.21.22 Ieremiah Ieremiah 12. ver 7. Ezechiel 16. ver 15. Ezechiel vnto the 24. ver Zechariah 11. ver 8. Zechariah vnto the end of the Chapter Deuteronomie 32. Deuteron ver 15.18.23 Hosea 12. ver 1.9 Hosea 13. Hosea ver 6. Malachie 1. ver 2.8 Touching the obstinacie and rebellion of the Church Isaiah see Isaiah 1. ver 5. vnto the 7. ver Isaiah 6. ver 9.10 Isaiah 8. ver 10.11.13.16 Isaiah 26. ver 10.11 Isaiah 28. ver 9.12.13 Isaiah 30. ver 9.15 Isaiah 42. ver 19.20 Isaiah 48. ver 4. Isaiah 65. ver 11. Ieremiah 2. Ieremiah ver 24.29 vnto the 33. ver Ieremiah 5. ve 3. vnto the 8. ver and ver 20. of the same Chap. vnto ver 25. Ieremiah 6. ver 10. in euerie verse almost vnto the end of the Chapter Ieremiah 7. ver 24. vnto the 28. ver Ieremiah 8. ver 4. vnto ver 8. Ieremiah 17. ver 1.23 Ieremiah 10. ver 11.15 Ieremiah 25. ver 4.8 Ieremiah 29. ver 17.20 Ieremiah 35. ver 13.16 Ieremiah 43. ver 2. Ieremiah 44. ver 7.10.11.16.20 Ezechiel 2. Ezechiel ver 3. vnto the end of the Chapter Ezechiel 3. ver 5.10.26.27 Ezechiel 4. ver 3. Hosea Ezechiel 12. ver 2. Hosea 4 throughout the whole Chapter Hosea 5. ver 4. Amos 4. Amos. ver 6. vnto the end of the Chapter Zephaniah 3. Zephaniah Zechariah Prouerbs ver 5. Zechariah 7. ver 11. vnto the end Prouerbs 1. ve 24. vnto the end Matth. 11. Matthew ver 16.17.21 and so vnto the 25. ver Matth. 12. ver 41.42 Matth. 23. ver 37. Touching the Pastors specially and particularly see Isaiah 56. ver 10.11 Ieremiah 6. ver 13. Ieremiah 14. ver 14. Ieremiah 23. ver 1.2 c. Ezechiel 22. ver 25.26.28 Ezechiel 34. ver 23.4 c. Hosea 9. ver 8. 1. Kings 22. ver 6. Iohn 7. ver 47. CHAP. XIII Whether the Church be aboue the holie scripture that is to say whether the holy scripture depend of the iudgement and authoritie of the Church THE Church indeede hath a very great authoritie among men in so much as it behooueth vs to heare the same if we will not be accounted rebels against God Yet notwithstanding seeing she is the wife and scholler of Iesus Christe shee ought alwayes to bee subiect vnto him as vnto her husband head and teacher And therfore this is an article which we must hold inuiolable and without breach to wit that the Church ought to depend and hang on Christ and his word and to haue her authoritie from the same word and not on the other side that the worde of Christ should depend and hang vpon the credite and authoritie therof from the Church Notwithstanding many are found which holde altogether the contrarie setting as we say the cart before the horses and plowe or waine before the oxen and vtterly ouerthrowing all order For they suppose that the holie scripture hath no more certaintie and authoritie than it pleaseth the Church that by her allowance and consent it shall haue And these be the Romish Catholikes who speake of the Church after this manner giuing it authoritie ouer aboue the word of God to make men to beleeue that what so euer it decreeth determineth and concludeth we must hold her iudgement sentence and resolution as a certaine oracle comming from heauen and to be short as an article of our beliefe And beholde their reasons for this The first reason The Church by her iudgement hath brought to passe that the holie scripture hath bene acknowledged for the true word of God and hath distinguished separated and sundered it from al all other writings what so euer which men haue published and brought into the world For who is it that in the beginning hath assured vs that the holie scripture is the word of God but the Church alone And who is it that euen to this day can certifie and assure vs that the same word of God is come safe sound and whole euen vnto our age but onely the same Church Wherefore it followeth that the authoritie and certaintie of the holie scripture dependeth vpon the authoritie and iudgemēt of the Church I aunswere two things or two manner of wayes First that this is a most wicked opinion to say that without the Church the word of God could not haue a sufficient witnesse to commend and set forth the authoritie and credite thereof vnto vs Let vs heare what Saint Augustine saith hereof Aug. de assumpt virg Mar● cap. 1. The authoritie of the trueth saith he is fruitfull and plentifull and if she be diligently examined men shall finde that of her selfe she maketh her selfe to be sufficiently knowne Alfonsus de Cast li. 1. ca. 8. cont haereses Wherefore Alfonsus de Castro hath sometimes saide seeing that the holie scripture is come foorth from GOD it hath of it selfe alreadie deserued that we should giue trust vnto it and beleeue it And when the Church publisheth this that it is giuen by God she doth wholie euen as a witnesse which beareth witnesse to some thing So that the trueth of the scriptures is certain not bicause of the witnesse but by reason of it selfe and the credite it hath and not bicause the church receiueth it and publisheth it but bicause that GOD hath giuen it and made the same manifest vnto vs. Besides is this a small matter that we haue the testimonie of the holie spirite dwelling in our hearts Ioh. 16.13 1. Ioh. 2 27. It is saide that it is his peculiar office to guide and leade vs into all trueth and to teach vs all things Wherevpon it followeth that he teacheth vs this trueth that the holie scripture is of God and from him 2. Cor. 2.12 It is saide moreouer that we haue receiued the spirite of God that we