that formed them will shew them no mercy and the lord Iesus shall come with flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and obey not his Gospel and that because they received not the truth in the love thereof that they might be saved for this cause God shall send them strong delusions to believe lies that they all might be damned who had pleasure in unrighteousnesse c. who ere transgresseth and abideth not in the the doctrine of Christ hath not God every soul that heareth not the voice of that Prophet shall be destroyed with the mouth confession is made unto salvation and an hundred such like as speak of an necessity of good works as well as of faith viz. self-denyall taking up the cross and following Christ c. speak of and to infants in non age while they know not their right hand from their left But Sirs oh that you would once understand for then all your intricacies sottish and absurd assertions and disputes about infants would be ended and save you a world of perplexity that now you are in by the ignorance of it that the word was not written as the way and will of God concerning infants in infancy but concerning men and women in order to their salvation by Christ Iohn 6.39.40 And this Sirs is no other answer then you use to give us when we argue against infants believing thus viz. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word preached But infants cannot hear so as to know Christ by the word preached Ergo infants cannot believe You tell us true faith in Adultis can come no other way but by preaching but in Infantibus faith is begotten otherwise so you fancy but you have no Scripture for it as we have that faith comes no way but by hearing Babist But that Scripture Rom. 10. speaks only of the way of faiths comming to adult ones Baptist So say I of welnigh the whole body of Scripture it speaks of the way wherein men at years must expect to be justifyed and saved and not of infants for they may be saved without faith so when we plead with you against the baptizing of infants I mean such of you and such there be amongst you as are ashamed as well as some that are not to say that infants have faith we tell you the Scripture speaks only of baptism of persons confessing sin professing faith that faith and baptism use still to go together as he that believeth and is baptized the Corinthians hearing believed and were baptized if thou believest with all thy heart c. therefore those that believe not may not be baptized you tell us again of these places and of all that ever we bring out of Scripture where baptism is mentioned that they speak of adult persons of whom t is confessed by you that faith and confession and profession is required in order to baptism but not of infants that cannot perform them So Pareus in Vrsin Cate. p. 384. 385. and also many others and your answer is very true and grants all that we desire for indeed all the places where ever baptism is mentioned throughout the Scripture do speak of it as in relation to grown persons and not to infants therefore because the Scripture is wholly silent in such a thing we dare not meddle to baptize infants but as we grant your answer to be true so I hope you will grant it to be as true in our present case for if some of you when we call for faith to a persons baptism or else deny that person to be baptized say thus viz. true no baptism without faith of such of whom faith is required and who are capable to act it i. e. of men at years but infanâ—s being uncapable to act faith and it being not required of them therfore they may be baptized without it which conclusion you make without book to for the word warrants you not to make it why may not we when you call so universally for faith to every ones salvation or else saying assuredly they are damned return the like viz true no salvation without faith of persons capable to act it and of whom it s required but infants being uncapable to act it and it being not required of them therefore they may be saved without it Babist This conclusion is spoken without book and as unwarrantable by the Scripture as you say ours â—s sith the Scripture speaks as much of salvation by faith as of baptism upon faith and as little of salvation without faith as it doth of baptism without it therefore still we have at least as good ground to say infants may be baptized without faith as you have to assert they may be saved without it Baptist. No I shall leave you behind here for sith the Scripture speaks of the impossibility of infants believing and yet with all of their saluation as your selves confesse in your own interpretation of that clause viz. of such is the kingdome of heaven but no where at all of their baptism it shews that they may be saved without believing but shews not that they may be baptized without it besides to hold any of them to be damned before they have by actual sin debard themselves of salvation is abominable cruelty and breach of Christian charity with you who yet confesse that all of them have not faith p. 19. but to hold they need not to be baptized cannot bear the like construction sith t is acknowledged by them that deny their bapâ—ism and by them also who absurdly assert to the contradiction of themselves that the denyal of baptism to them denies all hope of their salvation that they may be saved nevertheless though they die unbaptized so that whether we who hold that to them all belongs the kindome of heaven though they neither believe nor are baptized before they die or you that hold no salvation to them without faith and yet hold that all of them have not nay that very few of them for how few are believers infants to others have faith whether we or you I say do justly deserve the censure of damning all or at least innumerable infants dying contrary to that evident testimony of Scripture and sentence of our Saviour that to them belongeth the kingdome of heaven and contrary also to the rule of Christian charity set us by your selves which is to presume well of every infant that he is in a good estate till he appear to be in a bad and by actual sin to bar himself and deserve exemption from the general state of little children declared in Scripture which is this that they have right to the kingdome let the most simple but honest Reader judge between us As for the two texts you say are brought in proof of justification of infants without faith viz. Rom. 5.18 Rom. 11.7 who urges the last of them I know not for my part I take it to be of no tendency at all either to your purpose or
to believe we baptize heaâ—hens children as soon as them Thus the man busies himself beyond measure in beating the aire and wearyes himself ad ravim usque and his reader ad nauseam in refuting non entities about the proof of such things as no body denies and per ignorationem Elenchi concludes that which is as clear to his Antagonists as to himself and leaves that utterly undemonstrated which is the onely thing denyed by them the absurdity of whose way he pretends it to be his businesse to discover For verily those against whom he fights under the name of Anabaptists are as clear in it as he can be that no Christians child qua talis is to be baptized when he comes to years saving upon the same account on which an heathens child may be at years so baptized as well as he viz. his own personal profession of faith and desire of baptism Again they hold dipping naked to be intollerable wickednesse as well as he yet these things he be labours himself not a little in making good but that which is denyed indeed viz. that it is our usual practise to dip women and maids naked this he charges us with most stoutly most desperately and tells a tale of us most absurdly to the base abusing of himself the true Church and the whole world also but he is so impertinent and impertinently imployed in proving naked dipping to be a sin that he either forgets or has no while to prove it to be practised by us at all But Sirs who but he that sees the right eye of the idol shepheard to be utteâ—ly darkned would ever think that from such a man as Mr. Ba. desires to be accounted such a piece of paultry should proceed that such a messe of balterdash as here is should ere be broached by him that such a mad report of the walkers in truth should be publisht by one that goes for a publisher of the truth among thousands of deluded people Me thinks I see Satan gone forth and become a lying spirit in the mouthes of the prime among their prophets perswading and in the just judgement of God prevailing with multitudes of meer formal Gospellers to be strongly deluded and to believe lies out of their mouthes that they may be damn'd because they receive not the truth that was troden down for 42 monthes and now rises again and shines forth in the love therof that they may be saved but have pleasure in unrighteousness and superstition and have no pleasure in the truth Me thinks I see National Ministers of singular piety in peoples eyes prove men of singular pravity singularly bewitched into an implicit belief of the base tales that vain fellowes raise of the way of truth and singularly bewitching their people into implicit belief of them that so it is as they say that neither Priest nor people may obey the truth but both stumble and fall and be broken and snared and taken and ashamed each of other in the end Good Lord how is the practise of the truth made a reproach unto thy people and a derision dayly for I have heard the defaming of many report say they and we will report it possesse the pulpit and make the Priest believe it and then all the Country shall ring out and the people soon be diabolized into the faith on 't but hear ye rude reprochers of that people that are reprovers of the wayes whereby you run a whoring from the Lord you shall not prevail by such sleights such plausible pretences you shall be greatly ashamed you shall not prosper and unlesse you repent of your belying the truth of God your everlasting confusion shall never be forgotten It is too bad to be credulous to flying reports worse so violently to vent them worst of all malevolently to invent them I dare not say nor dare I deem Mr Ba. to be guilty of the last but of the two first I cannot clear him sith I perceive that he takes it for a truth that we ordinarily dip naked and thereupon disputes against it as our usuall practise and then not confidently onely but of a certain relates to the whole world that it is no bare word nor any doubtful thing but an experience a known practise if he can clear himself he hath leave to do it for me who also summon him in the name of Christ Jesus whose true disciples he hath done such dispite to the Lord keep him from despiting the spirit of grace the people of whose love are the people of his wrath to prove it our practise ordinarily to dip naked yea to produce but one instance of any women oâ— maids that ever he saw dipt naked in all his daies and I le abate him much of that I now accuse him of in the court of my conscience but if he say as indeed he does in effect that he never saw any dipt at all whilst p. 134. he saies that all that ever he saw baptized had water powred on them how can he say Epertus loquor it is his experience he having never so much as seen such a thing unlesse it were upon the brazen fac't front of Featleyes book where he fasly feignedly and filthily describes men and women dipping in that fashion or else upon the Titlepage of Ephraim Pagit who there paltrily pictures out this people practising thus and there I believe he hath experienced it or if he only hath it from the the mouthes of such as heard it from the mouthes of others who never saw it but receive it by tradition as well as he and that originally too from the mouthes of some that made it and in such a manner very likely it was first bruted for I am perswaded there was never such a thing done of late in England unless by some Arch Knave and Arrant Whore in way of mockage to the Gospel which is rather a glory then a shame to Christ his truth then let Mr. Ba. bear the blame of his blind blaspheming the people of the everliving God Or if he know indeed that such a thing as baptizing maids and women naked hath been done in serious wise by any persons I further challenge him to make some proof of it and to print the names of such men as have done it and such maids and women that have suffered themselves to be dipped naked and the names of such credible eye witnesses as will testify it as in the sight of God which if he can though I shall not give place to him thereupon so as to be satisfyed therby for his overlashing in asserting it to be our practise to dip naked or for condemning and denominating a whole party much more their cause by the defects abuses of some persons whom the cause disclaimes for then there was 12. devils because one among the twelve and then what an Augaean stable is your Church of England by many members of which notorious roguery is committed every houre Yet I shall satisfy him
first after once we do repent and believe and that so necessarily first necessitate both praecepti and medii in order to outward membership and fellowship in the visible Church of Christ and in order also to the true being of the visible Church in that outward right form and order that if it be not first done and done according to his own mind and not mans and first laid as a foundation among the rest of those principles Heb. 6.1 2. of Christs doctrine which altogether are called the foundation i. e. to the visible Church of Christ which is said to be built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets i. e. their doctrine or that form of doctrine they delivered whereof baptism in water was a part and a principle though not the principal part Eph. 2.22 Rom. 6.2.3.17 I deny that there can be any visible Church of Christ at all truly constituted according to his own will and such a bearer up of that building it is thaâ— abstract it and there is no building fitly framed together nor people growing together visibly an holy Temple in the Lord and he that in these latter dayes will ever erect that holy City and Temple which was trodden under foot by the Gentiles advancing all into the name of the Church at the door of infant-sprinkling must preach and practise again that true baptism of repentance for remission of sins in the absence of which there was no true visible Church as to outward order and form at all in their opinion as well as mine who hold and so does the whole Clergy that baptism is the way by which persons enter and out of which there is no entring at all into the visible Church in which therefore to erre is in truth such an unsufferable crime and so fearfully to erre in one of the most necessary points of Religion as pertaining to visible Church order that except ye repent of your infant-sprinkling O ye Priests and be baptized truly according to Christs will in the name of the Lord Iesus for remission of that and all other your sins and superstitions your error is enough to justifie our separation from you nor find we how we can in Christs name and according to his will or without violation and palpable breach of that outward order which he gives no dispensation for to us abide in one body or Church fellowship with you in the supper Secondly Sirs though I told it you before yet to conclude this I now tell you again though we deny infant baptism yet we do not hold at all nor conclude thereby that the whole Church of God hath universally erred i. e. the Church of Christ in all ages and places and howbeit it is trâ—e as Dr. Featley saies p. 19 and we with him That particular Churches have erred and may erre as the Greek Church and the Latin Church the two legs upon which Mr. Marshal strives to make infant baptism stand still because it hath stood there so long and general councels which the Schooles term the representative Church are subâ—ect to error and have sometimes as Dr. Featley saies and so often say I that that I le never build my faith upon them decreed heresie and falshood for truth howbeit all christendom hath erred after the Clergy in this point and many more for 1260 years yet t is true as Dr. Featley saies that the formal Church as they speak i. all the assemblies in the world cannot be impeached with errour in this point of infant baptism forasmuch as the true Churches of the first times never knew it and many faithful witnesses that knew it to be a corruption testified against it in the darkest times and the best reformed Churches even no lesse then scores of Assemblies do deny it at this day to the shame of that one general Assemblie that would have settled it Review And not onely so but if Mr. Fishers doctrine which 〈◊〉 lately delivered as a judicious gentleman affirmd who heard him that â—ll that did believe and were dipt should be saved but all that did believe and were not dipt should be damned be true they as much as lies in them damn to the pit of hell all the Matyrs Professors Fathers believers for many hundreds of years together Which onely doctrine should make all men to abhor them and not let their soules intermeddle with their secret whose rage is so fierce whose wrath is so cruel Christ shuts out onely unbelievers from heaven whosoever believeth not shall be damned This doctrine shuts out believers if they be not dipt i. e. if they be not Anabaptists it cannot be the ceremony they are so hot for without the substance Re-Review But saving the over apprehensive powers of that judicious Gentleman who ere it was that heard me he most grossely abuses in it himself and me in reporting such a thing to you as also you abuse both him and me and the world too in reporting it as from him to the world yet you have done him honour so farre I confesse as to conceal his name or else you had done him a greater spite indeed himself in shewing such shallowness of capacity in hearing as scarcely calls for that worthy title of judicious Gentleman and me in not only mistaking but mistelling his mistake also to you who print out his mistake to all the world for such doctrine as this That all that did believe and were not dipt should be damned did never yet fall from my mouth nor did ere take place or was ever owned for truth in my mind yea howbeit I summon you or any else to shew me in the word not taken by snatches but in the whole intent and scope of it Gods promise of salvation by Christ without obedience to him both in repentance faith and baptism too to those of whom all these things are required I say it again least you mistake me as speaking of infants for they being capable of none of these of them to salvation none of these are required of whom all these are required since all those that obey not the Gospel in what part soever of it it is manifested to them shall be damned 2 Thes. 1.7 8 9 2.10 11 12. Howbeit I say I wish you to advise how safely you that know it to be your duty may neglect it and how groundedly you can assure your selves that you do believe at all in truth if you receive not the love of every title of Christs truth so as wherein it appears to you to imbrace and obey it yet I am well assured I never utterd the other viz. that all that did believe and were not dipt should be damned nor is it now nor ever was it my judgement to this hour of which for the worlds and your satisfaction sith I have been very often charged and that twice or thrice in publique places where I have preacht so to hold I shall here give this brief account I judge that all persons
desirable then tongues which is so talkt on so it is defined to be no other then speaking to exhorration edification and comfort and also v. 31.32.33 where it s said you may all prophecy one by one and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets which shewes t was no gift of speaking infallibly but only preaching because it s supposed that they may be out and erre in their prophecy and must submit to correction in case they do from the other prophets Obj. Ans. Ob. Ans. * which I much marvel at sith this objection supposes a continuation or resurrection of that same ordinance of laying on of hands in the last daies after a whiles waiting for administrators but the questions subscribed to are all or most of them such as suppose the Enquirers to be much in the dark and in doubt about it what kind of laying on of hands that is that 's called a doctrine of Christ Heb. 6.1 whether ever such a thing was or is ever to be dispensed to all baptized believers c. as if they could not tell almost whether there be at least appointed by Christ such a manner of administration * viz. Seeing we are denied communion by some of those Churches or by some members thereof who hold the necessity of all baptized believers to practise submit to or come under the laying on of hands Therefore we desire them to acquaint us what we are commanded to say or do that we may be found faithful in that point or otherwise to be discovered disobedient unto a command by the Word of God which is the onely director here and that which shall be our judge at the last day * which is the wise query of some also and as learned a question as if one should ask whether at the supper we must put the elements to our mouths with the right hand or the left or in baptism ask how the baptizer must handle the person baptized and where he must take hold on him when he dips him and if he have not expresse Scripture concerning such nicities and trifles as these suspend the dispensation of both the supper baptism because Christ is somwhat short in his word not expressing punctually enough how his ordinances shall be dispensed nor what is to be said and done by persons at the doing of them so distinctly as they would have him But foolish and unlearned questions avoid knowing that they do gender strises 2 Tim. 2.23 p Viz. Seeing there be many that do desire baptized believers to require that hands should be laid on them Therefore we desire of them to shew us some place of Scripture if they know of any that doth expresse such a behaviour either of the administrator or the person on whom hands were laid * for such a behaviour as to reprove their backwardnesse and summon men to shew their forwardnesse to own Christs wayes may become any administrator whatsoever Act. 22.16 * Viz. Seeing many plead laying on of hands to be practised or submitted unto as a foundation principle or a beginning doctrine of Christ and that by all baptized believers Therefore we desire to know if any of them can inform us which of all these layings on of hands forementioned is called by Christ or his Apostles the foundation principle or beginning doctrine by some text in Scripture * if it be not somewhat an improper phrase to stile wicked men in their wrathful and cruel handlings of the Saints Administrators of any doctrine of Christ that is stiled imposition of hands as to me it seems to be unlesse wee l allow the name of an Administrator also to the devil himself when he tempts the Saints and puts forth his hands against them to smite them with any mischiefs in either body or spirit as by Gods permission he did Job Job 1.12 Job 2.6.7 * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Luke 21 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act 5 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act 8 17 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act 19.6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act 13.3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 〈◊〉 4 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb. ◠2. * Viz Seeing that Heb 6.2 speaks of the laying on of hands as plural as the doctrine of baptisms and doth not speak of any one laying on of hands fore-mentioned particularly nor of any other by distinction neither of any end purpose or event Therefore we desire to know what safety it is for any man to conclude that Heb. 6.2 is meant but of one of them onely †See Mr Blackwoods last book newly extant even whilest I am writing to you on this subject stiled a soul-searching catechism p. 58 in p. 54.55.56.57.58.59 of which he treats totally of this subject * Viz. Mr. Cotton Dr. Holm◠who as is shewed above in the 139 140 141. pages of this very volume I am yet in hand with borrowes Cottons and Calvins reading out of Antiquity concerning the practise of imposition of hands to all grown persons before admission to Church-fellowship wherby to prove infant-baptism which thereby he rather breaks the neck of * Viz. Mr. Cotton Dr. Holm◠who as is shewed above in the 139 140 141. pages of this very volume I am yet in hand with borrowes Cottons and Calvins reading out of Antiquity concerning the practise of imposition of hands to all grown persons before admission to Church-fellowship wherby to prove infant-baptism which thereby he rather breaks the neck of * consisting of 3 sorts of Christ'n creatures under a 3 sold CCClergy viz. papal prelatical presbyterian * yet some Ranters are not ashamed to say they are Christ and God and there is no other God then they and what 's in them and such like blasphemies whereby they declare themselves to be that generation that are to rise in the latter daies and make the man of sin even that wicked one that shall exalt himself above all that 's called God saying of himself he is God given over to strong delusion to believe lies that they may be damned because not receiving the love of the truth that they might be saved whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming 2 Thess. 2. denying the Lord that bought them and bringing on themselves swift destruction 2 Pet. 2.2 * Viz. touching of dead bodies Num. 5.2 eating or touching the carcases of any forbidden fishes birds or beasts Lev. 11.24.31 diseases as the leprosie Lev. 13.8 running of issues Levit. 15.2 and such like * for if he that despised Moses law died without mercy of how much sorer punishment shall he be thought worthy that hath troden under foot the son of God Heb. 10.29 therefore we had need to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard least at any time we let them slip for if the word spoken by angels was sure and stedfast and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of
as if your selves had been very forward that I should give account or shew my Arguments and Reasons onely my selfe was against it and opposed it and that with importunity as if I had urg'd that at any hand I might not give account of what I did 't is such a cunning contradiction to your selves as I never saw penn'd by the hands of prudent men since I was born to this day Sirs if I should have said so much as this of my self that I ought to have shew'd my grounds upon which I denied Infants-sprinkling but was at that time importunate with you that I might not my own conscience which is Mille testes and a thousand witnesses besides would condemn me as no ordinary self-belyar for I profess before the Lord and those many people that then heard me many of which unless willingly cannot be ignorant hereof I was most forward that day to give out the grounds of the way I walk in but that your selves not the people were most froward against it but the people have believ'd you so long at a venture in other cases that though both you and they know the truth to be contrary to what you say yet you hope they will believe you so still but the Lord grant them to find out your forgery for the future and to be no more guld by your ghostly glosses Report Sixthly That there should be no tumults no interruption of the Disputants that no provoking terms whereby offence might be justly given or taken should be used that if any such were warning should be given and satisfaction made or the Disputation to break up and the blame to ly upon that side which did transgresse Reply You might as well have given Account who they were that did violate this agreement as of the Article it self but then you had brought no little blame upon your selves and thereupon very likely you forbore it for as when you propounded this Article little considering that your selves were most likely to grow regardless of it you made a Râ—d for your own tails so you had assuredly slashed your selves soundly therewith had you told all the truth indeed for though this as all the rest was your own by Proposall your Antagonists only by assent yet verily even you the Law-givers were the the men that did most grosly transgress it yea some of you seem'd to sit there for nothing else but to blur and blunder the proceedings by some impertinent interposals or other so that after questions askt me three or four times over by your selves and leave as often askt you by me to answer yet the anticipations of some or other of you either forbad me to begin or at least cut me off before the end This Article therefore being broken by you in the other parts of it must be kept in the last clause thereof at least viz. the blame of the breach ly upon you Report Seventhly That after the Disputation ended it might be lawful for any one of the Congregation leave first obtained of the Ministers to ask questions and to propound his arguments not being tyed to any Syllogistical forms and to receive satisfaction Reply 'T was the facultie of the Pharisees of old to affect the chief seats in the Synagogues and t is the fashion of you Masters in Israel now to take upon you to be the Chaiâ—-men still and to bear such sway in the publick places that the people may not meddle there to speak a word or urge an argument or ask a question or without leave from you Masters of the Synagogues so much as once to quack in youâ— presence but Sirs the best on 't is you have now in this year of Iubilee 1650. for so doth your book beare date given not only toleration but advice and invitation too to all people to Ask the Priest p. 27. and therefore though formerly they might not do it at all and even now they do it oft to little purpose yet I hope you will have them excused for do it they will by your leave now and then when they ask you questions in your Cathedralls without asking you any more leave so to do Report Next you tell us That it was also moved by the Ministers that two Moderators might be nominated and also Clerks appointed for the writing down both of the Arguments and Answers the Originalls to be left in the hands of the Moderators that so no mis-reports might be raised concerning them or if any were the truth might be made appear to any that should desire satisfaction by repairing to them which I utterly refusing the Ministers superseded from further urging of it Reply I did indeed refuse to chuse any Moderator my self save the whole Auditory as knowing how basely the truth hath been captivated and kept under for Heresy by the Clawes of the Clergy when subjected to their determination yet did I not deny to have any chosen for I left you the liberty to chuse whom you would who very goodly but how justly let all men judge made choise of one to determine as judge in his own cause who was the only opponent almost altogether if the True Account were not false which sets down no Arguments but his but however the prime Plantiff in the Disputation and as finely he fitted your fancies that are affected so much with falsity and foppery of both which there was great store in his Reâ—â—pitulation As for me could I easily have suspected there would have been such immoderation amongst you as was striking up so many of you together sometimes that neither I could be heard by any of you at all nor your selves very well by one another it had not been amiss to have admitted of Moderators to have kept you in some better order for â—lerks also for the setting down of things truly had I thought you would have taken such advantage for want thereof as to raise and that in print too so many mis-reports as your selves have done I had probably closed with you in that motion and though I refused to do it then as being better opinion'd of you then you have since deserved for yet it 's more than I am like to do again if e're I meet you in another Disputation for that slippery tricks sake you have serv'd me concerning this Ictus Piscator sapit But as to this there 's no remedy now save my Nâ— to your Yea and the memories of the people that heard us my Supreme appeal for moderation is to Christ the Supreme Moderator of Heaven and Earth before whom as I told you then I hoped I should speak nothing of which I should have cause to be ashamed so I tell you now I hope I shall pen nothing of which I maie be affraid to give account when he appears and we appear before his Tribunall the same Lord come quickly and judge between us even so Amen Report After these Propositions were agreed upon you say I moved to have liberty to make
saie of this evil and adulterous generation that they maintained it against me but themselves for whether they do or do it not they cannot hurt me thereby but if they do it the worst will be their own for as they of old that rejected the true Baptism for none Luke 7.30 did reject the councel of God against themselves so do they that reject it for a false one as to the terms of evil and adulterous generation concerning which you first charge me and then acquitted me as not intending them to you I meant them then in verie deed of this Age wherein we live yet so long as you go a whoring from God after waies of mens tradition and teach people to do so as you do I see not how I could have been truly said to revile had I used them directly to your selves Report Thirdly that though I had once been of that opinion and a Minister of the Church and received orders from it yet now I was of another and did renounce both the Church and her orders to which say you 't was answered that it was no marvell that I that had forsaken the Church should afterwards revile and despise her and that God having suffered me to fall into so gross an error as to deny and renounce my first baptism did in his just judgement suffer me to fall further and further Heresie being like a Precipice where after a man hath begun his run he cannot stay till he come to the bottom Reply I was once of that opinion indeed and practise too together with your selves and had not a little zeal thereof though not according to knowledge when I acted in your false function by implicit faith and made the Directories Canons Catechisms Creeds of the Clergies compiling my Rule as many more did besides my self not comparing them so singly as I should have done with that true Directory of the word but I have since seen good occasion to recant it as you will undoubtedly do also first or last and O that it may be yet in time to your peace notwithstanding your now forwardness to uphold it I was also in your sence once a Minister of the Church but since going about to look for that Ministry of the Church and for that Church whereof I thought my selfe a Minister from thenceforth I could never find either t'one or t'other As for your Church of England I confess I received twice her holy orders viz. once from the Bishops in the daies of their Dominion by whom I was ordained a Deacon i. e. in Scripture-sence to look toth'poor but in their sence half a Priest for in that capacity we might sprinkle if allow'd and give the wine to people also in the Supper but not by any means the bread unless very specially licensed thereunto till we should come into the full order of Priest-hood for so ran the phrase in the old English horn-book which as to that part was stiled The book of the Ordination of Bishops Priests and Deacons once also by the Presbyters so called since the time of their Parricid or cutting the throats of their fathers the Bishops that gave the being of Priesthood to them and inducting themselves to reign in their stead as the Bishops themselves had dealt not long before with their old father the Pope who gave the being of Priesthood to them both from whom not as a Priest-hood but a true Presbytery as they say I was in orders to practise their refined Popery more perfectly which I might do before but by the halves but now I know not where this Church of England is if you speak of a true Church of Christ unless you can prove things to have their true being without either their true matter or true form for as the subject matter whereof it consists is false being not baptized believers so the form into which the Pope cast it some 600 years since in to which also the Prelate and Presbyter have new cast it being and that subpaena too National Provinciall Parochiall is utterly false and her fellowship as good as none at all because not free but forced and as for the true Ministry thereof I know not where it is neither if that onely be a true one as you were wont to say it is that can derive it self by a line from the very Apostles neither can you make good your interrupted succession from them unless the Pope from whom your Series comes was even then a true Minister of Christ when he was also an Antichristian Deceiver and unless Apostacy and Apostolicy can so stand together as that Rome was even then an Apostolick Church when 't was palpably apparent to be an Harlot neither if I could tell where can I tell very well which is the Ministry of your Church of England there are so many Ministries in it now namely Prelaticall High-Presbyterian Presbyterian-Independent each of which lay claim to that title but being both themselves and their adherents for such different forms of government cannot all three be the Ministry of one Church unless your Church of England that was of old so full of uniformity is now become capable of tri-formety in its discipline and Ministry and yet to be intirely but one Ministry and Church of England still which if it be it s a tr-iform monster then indeed As to your answer to this third head I wish you to weigh how rawly you utter your selves whilst just after your selves had clear'd me from the guilt of Reviling and before I had us'd any new terms that could have the least savor of reviling you return to charge me of it again but no marvel when every round reprover and renouncer of your Romishness is as much a reviler with you as your selves are at Rome for renouncing that grosser Popery that 's there Howbeit in truth he reviles your Church no more that calls it a very Harlot if it be so then your selves revile Rome in calling her a Harlot because she is so you hint at my renouncing my first baptism can a man renounce that he never had for what was dispenc't when I was a child as t is no signe to me now for I remember not that I ever saw it so I learn by the hear-say of it that it was not baptism at all as for this last which is also the first baptism that ever was administred to me I see no cause to renounce it as yet nor yet I am well assured ever shall As for heresie or believing and doing besides the word t is a Precipice indeed where after men have begun their run unless the Lord mercifully prevent them as he hath done me and many more of late and I desire may your selves in due time who are all gone astray from primitive truth after the doctrines and commandements of men they cannot well stay till they come to the bottom even the bottomless pit it self into which that Arch-Heretitk the Pope who open'd it
the Ministers would not hinder the preaching of the word or call any time unseasonable for that the Ministers answered that they magnified preaching as much as any yet must needs tell them the Apostle makes it inferior to charity and that when charity was in danger to be violated by it it were but Christian prudence to omit it Reply Antichristian priestly-popely pollicy if ye will but neither Christian prudence nor Pastor-like pitty nor Peter-like piety nor Pauls charge to Timothy 2 Tim. 4.1.2 which was to preach the Word and be instant in season and out too to reprove rebuke exhort c. with all long suffering and doctrine Ob. But some there would have been griev'd at it in which case better to have omitted it in charity then hazzard hatreds by performance Aâ—sw Some there its like would not have indur'd it yet is that no plea whereupon to omit it for then we must preach no more Gospel to the world which sets two against three and three against two and occasions not causes by means of mens lusts opposing it more sword then peace at present Luke 12.51 52 53. Yea the time will come and now is when men yea Ministers will not indure sound Doctrine but after their own lusts heap to themselves teachers and what heaps upon heaps of false teachers are there in all Christendom for the Clergy have made themselves many as the locusts many more then to every parish one tickling men up still with an omnia benè in a bad condition even when for their sakes Isa. 24. omnia penè penitus peritura sunt and will turn away their ears from the truth and be turned unto fables of mens feigning but watch thou in all things indure afflictions do the work of an Evangelist fulfill thy ministry 2 Tim. 4.3 4 5. Report That the Congregation consisted of two sorts of men and women whose opinions were different that there was a danger of a breach between them that as they came together and had behav'd themselves quietly all the time so they might be permitted to depart that the mischieâ—s which follow Division are easier prevented then heal'd c. Reply Great indeed are the mischiefs that follow Divisions they are more easily prevented then heal'd but as sure as the Lord lives and his word hath any truth in 't the Divisions of these dayes the mischiefs of which and that 's the best on t ' will light most upon the tripple Tower of BBBabel even the Tripple CCCrown and Kingdome of the CCClergy out of whose clutches God is going to redeem his Captive Clergy the height of which Tower he will bring down to the Earth even to the dust these Divisions I say will neither be prevented nor healed notwithstanding all indeavours to that purpose till that be fully accomplisht which this Division of Languages truly tends to in the Councels of God viz. the utter shattering and disabling of these great Babel-builders so that their Ambitious projects shall come to a Perpetual end till then breach upon breach cannot be avoided while the Earth was as in old time of Priestly pomp it was of one language and of one speech all saying nemine contradicente as the Pope said all worshipping as the Priest-hood appointed all believing as the Church believed there was so much Charity to the Churches peace that all truth was choakt under the name of Schism for the sake on 't the builders by whom the corner-stone is still refused saying one to another go to let us build us a City and a Tower whose top may reach to heaven let us make us a name and nothing was restrained from them which they imagined to do by advantage of this their unity and uniformity of speech and Religion but now God is coming down to view the great Tower this Pompous Kingdom of Priests and finding it swell up to heaven above the stars of God over all on earth at least that 's called God he sayes go to let us go down and confound their language that they may not understand one anothers speechâ— whereupon as the great City is split in three parts so each of these will be subdivided more and more into Sectaries of all sorts so that men understand not now the language of the Pope and Priest-hood nor will Christs sheep hear the voice of those strangers by which Division of tongues if that Great City cease to reign and that montanous Babell come down and become a plain before Zerubabel as it must t is not so devillish as Divine a Division which all are not so sorry for as some whose Alas is lamented back again with Hallelujah yea let the day break more and more and the shadows flie away and my beloved be like a Roâ— or young hart hasting ore these mountains of Bâ—ther i. e. Division Cant. 2.17 And now as to the peoples being permited to depart I know none were held there against their wills besides your selves yea both you and they too that would might have gon in peace and those that would might have staid in peace had you not troubled all with your oppositions if such as had a mind to stay had been as peaceably permitted to abide as you who had such a mind to be out were peaceably permitted to depart for any hinderance you had from us all might have been full as well for ought I know as now it is Report Next you relate I not hearkning to the Reasons of the Ministers it was at last referred to the Minister of the place being there present and he desired to declare whether he would give way to my preaching which he refusing to do upon the reasons before said one of the Congregation began to utter some words tending to a Commotion viz. that he had nothing to do with them that they would do it without his leave and the like whereupon the Ministers conjured me whose interest they observed to be so great in the people by the bonds of Charity the candor and Sobriety of a Christian and ingenuity of a Scholar that I would dissolve the Congregation that they might part without professed hostility that there would great disgrace light upon their meeting besides dangers which they did foresee if I did not that if I persevered in my motion they did protest openly before the Congregation against it and did charge upon me whatsoever inconveniency should follow so being perswaded I went out of the Church with the Ministers and the Congregation followed Reply I saw not so much as a grain of reason in all you spake in prevention of so innocent and in it self inoffensive a purpose as that was to render a reason of my faith to a people that expected it from me and were as your selves were not then and there so willing to hear it whereupon I neither did nor durst decline the doing of it upon any such account as convicted that by right I ought not to have done it nevertheless I must confess when
as little appearance of evill of actual sin whereby to bar themselves or deserve exemption from the generall state of little children declared in Scripture as is in the infants of believers all which shall plainly appear out of hand and much of it out of your own handy work in my handling of your first Argument in particular which now I am return'd to again I shall begin with and so pass through it to all the rest with which I must deal once over again as they ly in order in your Relation and Review which first argument of yours is laid down in this form viz. Disputation No man may forbid water to those that have received the holy Ghost Acts 10.47 But little children have the holy Ghost Disproof In which Syllogism of yours howbeit I then did and do still deny your Minor as the main matter that is amiss the falsity of which I shall discover yet there is much fault to be found with your Major in that you repeat the words of Peter but lamely and by the halves out of that Scripture whence you quote it which you adulterate and abuse unless you had inserted the whole sentence the chief clause of which viz as well as we which is most needfull to be exprest to the true proof of any ones right to baptism therfrom you whether more forgetfully or fearfully least the falsity of your Minor should be the more discried by it I say not do yet leave out alltogether In the absence of which clause the falsity of your Minor lies undiscerned which upon the putting in thereof would appear if it be possible for it so to do more palpably false then now it doth specially to every common capacity whereupon very probably you left it out for if your Major had been thus viz. no man may forbid water to those that have received the holy spirit as Peter and other adult Disciples had i. e. visibly and apparently unto others by the acts fruits and effects of it as the words as well as we do import your Minor then must have ran thus viz. but little children have the holy spirit as well as Peter and those adult Disciples Act. 10.47 i. e. visibly undoubtedly apparently to others and then it had been more apparently false in the eyes of all for verily how perspicuous soever it is to you Clergy men who for your own ends seemingly see what you see not as well as sometimes see not what you see and to your implicit criditors that will seem to see that you see whether it be to be seen or no yet to such as are resolved to see with their own eies and not yours it is so far from being so visible and apparent that infants have the holy spirit as t was that Peter and the rest had received it that it is a thing invisible to you and more then ever did or yet doth or ever will appear to any but the blind and the blind leaders of the blind while the world stands by all you have here stitcht up together to make it appear by the inefficacy of all which to any such purpose as you use it for having thus hinted the crafty quoting and cunning coining of your Major besides the sence of the Scripture you fetch it out on I shall God willing make sufficiently to appear in my Examination of your Minor the proof of which I now come to consider As therefore to your Minor which is this viz. little children have the holy Ghost I lay two evils to the charge of it first a faultering in the terms secondly a falsity in the thing testified in it First it s delivered in tam dubiis terminis such a dubious and indefinite form of speech viz. little children not at all expressing what children nor believers children distinctly from others but all alike which muddling expression of the subject of whom you praedicate this that they have the holy spirit is made well nigh every where else throughout your book and possibly on purpose to shelter that absurdity from being too apparent which unless you dream'd out this Disputation a more determinate delivery of your sâ—lves all along in these terms viz. infants of believers you foresaw would light upon it Nevertheless as indefinitely and implicitly as you set down your subject you cannot hide the nakedness thereof let your meaning be what it will for you must take it in some or other of these senses viz. all little children have the spirit or unbelievers little ones onely have the spirit or believers little ones have the spirit or some children have the spirit but we cannot tell which nor whether these more then those or those more then these the spirit being neither bound to all the children of believing parents nor barred from any of the children of infidels you cannot understand it of unbelievers children only nor yet of all children nor yet of unbelievers and believers children promiscuously so as to say some of these and some of those but in particular it cannot certainly be presumed which though he that reads your eighteenth page where you confess there can be no conclusion made which have it and which not can hardly tell how to take you handsomely in a better sense for then all men will say fie upon it how miserably do these Logicians labor all along besides their question they propound the baptism of believers infants only but proceed to prove the baptism of all children or of unbelievers children onely or at least of unbelievers children equally with the other they plead to have none but believers infants baptizâ—d yet affirm the holy spirit the supposed being of which in these infants is the main ground on which they would have these only baptized to be in all infants at least in other infants for ought they know as well as these yeâ— even in those infants even Infidels infants whom yet they would not have baptiz'd so partial and cruel are they to these though the denial of baptism to poor infants in their own opinion destroies all hope of their salvation but if you take it for little infants of believers only concerning which only the question was stated then every wise man will wound you as much on the other hand and say thus how miserably do these men fumble about their business both proving and practising more then themselves believe to be the truth they assert infants of believers only have the holy spirit and undertake to prove it in contradistinction to other infants yet produce nothing more towards the proof of it then what tends if it do tend indeed to such a purpose to prove it to be in all infants as well as those how egregiously do these Priests gull and cheat their people they profess the holy spirit to be in no infants save those onely that are born of believing parents and that these onely are thereupon to be baptized and yet practise another thing under the name of baptism to
if you be not sanctified one in to and by the other as lawful man and wife by your union formerly contracted notwithstanding your now disunion in Religion then your children are unclean and this is truth for so the children are in this civil sense if begotten and born out of matrimony whether the parents be believers or no buâ— the other is not truth for whether both or but one or none of the parents believe the infants for that cause alone and without respect to matrimony are in no sense ere the more holy or unclean Thirdly and this will yet appear more plainly if you consider that faith alone in either one or both the parents begetting out of wedlock cannot sanctifie the seed so begotten with this civil holiness here meant no nor with that faederall holiness you plead for nor could it do so even then when that holinesse or birth priviledge you talk of was in force as now it is not viz. in the daies of the law for if two believers came together then out of marriage their seed were not onely base born and so unclean in this our sense but also to the tenth generation uncapable to be admitted into the congregation and so consequently unclean even in your own Deut. 32.2 whereupon how Pharez and Zarah were dealt with it matters not sith they were born before the law was given Ieptha was exempted from any inheritance with his brethren because he was the son of a strange woman Iudg. 11.2 and Davids unclean issue by Bathsheba that in the wisdome of God was taken away by death on the seventh day might not surely without breach of the law have been accounted holy and of the congregation if he had lived beyond the eighth whereupon your selves also are much fumbled about the holinesse of bastards and the baptism of base-begotten babies so that you scarcely know how to behave your selves about it though the parents sinning be believers at least en-churched in your Churches yea it s generally known saith Mr Cotton that our best Divines do not allow the baptism of bastards and though he is pleased to say they allow it not sine sponsoribus without Sureties yet I wonder sith Deut. 32.2 Gods denial of such of old is made the ground of their denial of such now to enter into the Congregation as unholy that our Divines dare take on them to admit cum sponsoribus and so to go besides their own Rule viz. the order of things under the law wherein God gave no such allowance but to let that tolleration pass which they take to themselves you may learn thus much of your selves if you will that though wedlock without faith make a holy seed in our sense yet faith without wedlock in the parents can make a holy seed neither in our sense nor in your own nor any at all for the infants of the married are holy but believers bastards are both civilly and federally unclean inso much that your selves see cause to refuse as federally holy the spurious seed euen of those whose lawfull issue you unlawfully sprinkle Fourthly if you more seriously consider that the holinesse in the Infant here must needs be the fruit and result of that and that must needs be the cause of the holiness here spoken of in the infant quo posito ponitur sanctitas sublato tollitur which being in the parents a holinesse must necessarily be thereupon which not being in the parents a holinesse cannot be in the seed for positâ causà ponitur effectus sublata tollitur abstract the cause and the effect cannot be suppose the cause and the effect cannot but be now that which if it be not in the parents the holiness is not but being in them the holinesse is consequently in the infants 't is not the faith but the conjugal or marriage Relation of the parents for as for the first of these viz. faith it may be in one yea in both of the parents and yet no federal holinesse at all be in the infants witness Ishmael the seed of Abraham the father of the faithful and his Sons by Keturah also born of him after Covenant made with him and his seed in Isaac and Iacob and yet neither of them in that Covenant witnesse the base born children of true believers among the Jews suppose David and Baâ—â—sheba which for all the parents faith could not by the law be admitted in thâ— Congregation nor have that birth-priviledge to be reputed holy which from the parents faith you universally intail to the infants moreover this birth-priviledge and Covenant-holiness by generation which did inright to Church ordinances which once was but now is a non-entity and out of date might be then when it was in being in children in whose parents faith was not found at all for most of the Iews were unbeiievers yet all their legitimate children were holy federally therefore faith in the parent cannot be the cause of such a thing yea if you will believe Mr Blake himself the strictest pleader for a birth-priviledge of federal holiness in Infants that ever I met with and that from this very place he condescends so far as to contribute one contradiction to himself toward the helping of the truth in this case viz. That faith in the parâ—nt is not the cause of this holinesse whilst making the holinesse in this text to be a birth priviledge or Church-Covenant holinesse and to be the fruit and result of the faith of the believing parents and consequently their faith to be the sole and proper cause of the same he confesses flatly elsewhere page 4. that a loose life in the parent and mis-belief which is as bad in some cases worse then unbelief for which is worse to believe false things or not to believe true yea Apostacy from the faith which all if they be not inconsistent with faith I know not what is do not divest nor debar the issue from having that holiness which himself saies is meant in this text Babist Perhaps he means not by faith strictly the parents true believing but in generall his being in the covenant and faederally holy himself and so a cause of this federal holiness in the issue Baptist. First Paul means true believing here in 1 Cor. 7.14 whether Mr Blake do or no. Secondly what will he get as to the point in hand by his Synonamizing faith and faederall holiness for still neither the one nor the other is made here the cause of the holiness of the seed for the holiness here spoken of may be where neither of them is and may not be in the seed even where they are both in the parent as for example in Ezras time Ezra 10 3. we find abundance of the Jews both Priests and people that were in the faith or at least in faederall holiness yet the children were put away as unholy as well faederally as otherwise because their marriage was unlawfull and that bed adulterous wherein they lay with strange
heathen infants to hell and this no less then twenty times over yet we must expect to hear it from ore the pulpit cloth twenty times ore again before the devil be dead how blessed and charitable your doctrine is and what most bloody and cruel opinionists the Anabaptists are concerning infants Infants then I say of what parents soever are either such as die in the personall innocency of their own infancy and so are universally saved and yet in token or as a sign thereof to themselves there 's neither need nor sense nor reason to baptize them or else such as live to understanding and then they appear either not to do Abrahams works and then we own them not yet as Abrahams seed though born of believing parents yea though of believing Abraham himself not as heirs according to the Gospel-promise or else to belieue in Christ and walk in the steps of Abraham and then of what parents soever though of infidels we are to own them as Abrahams spiritual seed and such as so abiding are heirs apparent by promise of the heavenly Canaan this we can never discern by them in their infancy not knowing yet whether they shall die infants or live to years nor whether when they come to years they will reject Christ or receive him To conclude this then that any mans fleshly seed in the world is upon the meer account of their natural descent of such or such parents or further then as dying in infancy they have no actual sin to condemn them or living to act sin they believe in Christ in both which cases the seed of unbelievers are as capable of salvation as the seed of believers themselves are by promise heirs of salvation and in token thereof are to be baptized and in baptism visibly sign'd more then other children as children oâ— God members of Christ and inheritors of the Kingdom of heaven t is a lesson which I learn'd once by roat and had by root of heart when in the minority of my standing in the false ministry with you I was verst in the Priests Primmer of Common-prayer and as to Gospel-administrations was skild but little further then the Psalter but when I once turn'd over a new leaf and began â—o advance a little further even into the Scripture which in some volumes was in those dayes annexed as some certain appendix at the end of it I could never read that lesson perfectly since neither can I learn now that any mans fleshly seed that lives and yet believes not can make any clearer claim of kindred to Abraham as their father or to the Gospel inheritance by a meer bodily birth of believers only then I can make of my kindred to the Great Turk and of my tight to succeed him as his heir in his dominion by pleading that between them both his Grandmother and mine had four elbowes Now therefore Sirs let it be seriously considered by you that that outward meer denominative birth holiness which was once in the seed of the Iews and is now supposed and asserted by you to be in the seed of believing Gentiles as it was then peculiar to that people only that were Iews by either nature or Religion so it is now universally and utterly ended in Christ crucified and no more to have a being among them or any other people under heaven It was not by Christ comming communicated or as Mr. Blake cloudily contends throughout his Mistaken Treatise of birth-priviledge and covenant holiness conveyed from the Iews to believing Gentiles and their seed but clearly cashiered and confiscated so that ther 's now no such thing to be found at all 'T is not devolved downwards but rather resolved into that Gospel truth and substance which it shadowed out yea and totally dissolved ecclipsed annihilated swallowed up as the light of the Moon before the Sun being clothed upon with a far greater and more glorious holiness than it self for as the type was in time to give way and be gone when the thing typified thereby should once come into existence so all that old covenant holiness even the holiness of that seed Isaac and his posterity as well as other things that were predicated by it was as but a type of a more perfect holâ—nes and holy seed to come to flee away as Ishmael before himself when once Christ should come and that holy seed to stand in the house to whom the promises of the Gospel do belong Babist This seed you speak of viz. believers was come before Christ and in being under the law as well as now therefore they sure cannot be the holy seed shadowed out by that holy seed that came of Isaac Baptist. True the Gospel holy seed was under the law but not the Laws holy seed under the Gospel the substance being ever when and where the shadow is but the shadow not alwaies when and where the substance Novum Testamentum semper ubique fuit in vetere velatum vetus non in novo nisi revelatum the law and its holy things are not in being but only revealed what they were under the Gospel but the Gospel and its holy things were in being though veiled over under the law and yet for all that the Gospel is said truly to come then because it came not into its full force till Christ came so faith is said to come in with Christ Gal. 3.23.25 not as if there were no faith in the world before but because both the fulness of the things before believed came in then and things before believed came then into full force and act and also because the way of standing in the Church which before was chiefly by a fleshly birth comes now to be no otherwise then by a spirituall birth from above by faith in Christ Iesus Rom. 11. thou standest by faith faith Paul speaking of the manner of the Gospel standing in the visible Church so that the holy seed and heirs of the Gospel covenant i. e. believers which are the seed of Christ Esay 53. He shall see his seed are said to come then though there was such a seed in the world from the beginning thereof because they then came to dwell alone as it were in the house where Ishmael the sonne of the Bondwoman to speak after the Allegory I mean the fleshly Israelites a meer fleshly seed dwelt together with them as Ishmael did with Isaac till he was cast out in former time for even as Ishmael the servant dwelt as it were the Son and heir in the house till Isaac was born and then after a while was cast out that Isaac the true heir might dwell alone and such as should successively come from him so Israel after the flesh though a servant in reference to the Gospel Israel dwelt and domineered as the only child of the Church till Christ the true Isaac was born and then after a while was cast out of the Church that his seed might dwell there alone forever after Babist
yea that is as much warrant to us in our varying from the manner of circumcision in the point of infants by omission of it unto them as 't is for you to vary from circumcision in the point of females by admission of them unto baptism for as you are fain to plead for all your strong hold of circumcisions being instituted and of old dispensed to infants no less then New Testament institution and instance for the admission of females so if we insist upon onely the New Testament institution and example we can as truly say there is neither precept nor president for baptizing infants as you can say there is both for baptizing females and with as much confidence as you can say t is evident there that both men and women were baptized may I say it is evident that infants were not at least it is not evident that they were and that is enough to serve our turn in this case wherein it lies upon you who practise infants baptism to produce some proof or other that t was practised in the primitive times and some precept direct or consequential from the law of Christ and not to content your selves and cousin the world with such a poor pretence as to say that the command for the circumcision of infants is a consequential and virtual command to us to baptize them which as bindings as you say it is to us in this case when it comes to be examined you see it binds us as little to the same subject as to the same circumstance of time You ly groaping for a warrant for your way in the Old Testament and Law of Moses and being not a little aware that you have not warrant enough in the new you look after that Law-Giver that is long since out of Date to the church for the doing of which you need no other to accuse you then he even Moses in whom you trust who instead of inviting you to learn of himself under the times and promulgation of the Gospel how Gospel ordinances should be administred rather conjures the very Iews themselves that were as we never were his own disciples whilest his Testament stood Iohn 9.28 and that with a curse from any longer attendance unto his voice to attendance unto the voice of another Prophet Christ Iesus when God should raise him up unto them you forget Sirs that we are now under the new Testament and the teachings and Law of another Law-giver another Apostle and High Priest of our profession who was faithfull to him that appointed him as a son over his own house i. e. the Gospel Church as Moses though a Servant was faithful to him that appointed him in all his house the fleshly Israel so faithful was Moses as to make all things plain in his Testament so that his Disciples during the time of that Covenant whereof he was mediator might easily see if they were careful to look into his Law the mind of God concerning them in every administration of that Testament so that they need not look any where else but to his Law yea in Heb. 9.19 Moses spake every precept to all the people according to the Law and shall we think that this man who is worthy of more glory then Moses and who is now as a son over his own house hath not been so faithfull as to make sufficient provision of plain precepts Lawes and ordinances so as to speak distinctly and to give out his will and Testament clearly so that his disciples may know it without running back to learn of his servant Moses doth not God himself say of this Prophet by the mouth of Moses himself Deut. 18.18 I will put my words in his mouth and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him him shall they hear in all things whatsoever he shall say and it shall come to pass that whosoever shall not hearken to my words which he shall speak in my name I will require it of him and he shall be destroyed from among the people Act. 3.22 23. Is it likely then that he hath left his will so darkly delivered concerning his own institutions that his Ministers should be fain to fetch it so far as you fetch infants baptism who say there is a consequentiall and virtual command and institution for it in the old Testament of Moses for as much as infants are there commanded to be circumcised I am ashamed to see such Masters in Israel as you go for so dishonor and disparage the great Master of the Gospell house and Mediator of the Gospel Testament as to straggle and wander and run from him to Moses to learn how to administer his ordinances from the son to the Servant from the living to the dead from the Gospel to a law long since ended from the truth to the type from the substance to the shadow as if there were not light enough shining forth from God in the face of Iesus Christ for the use of his houshold without beholding the vailed face of Moses for that he gave circumcision as a part of his law though it was of the Fathers and was in being before him as sacrifices also were and other parcels of that old Testament whereof he was Mediator is shewed abundantly above out of Iohn 7.22 23. certainly Sirs that cause is none of Christs whose defendants are so hardly bestead when they are put to clear it that they are driven from Christ himself to call out to Moses Master help us or else we perish Babist Though there is no such Syllabicall or expresse precept for infants baptism in the New Testament as there was for circumcision under the old yet there is precept enough to us so long as we find no prohibition Baptist This was M Kents way of arguing the lawfulness of infants baptism in publike one day at Crambroke and at Staplehurst also the same evening following with my self in the presence of some others it is not forbidden saies he therefore it is commanded to which it was answered to this effect viz. that it is not commanded therefore it is forbidden for we being forbidden to add to the words of Christ and to preach any other than what was delivered to the Churches by the Apostles Gal. 1.8.9 Revel 22.18 what ordinance dispensation and peece of worship and service soever is not appointed by him must consequently and clearly be prohibited and be but meer Will Worship if performed in fuller proof of which viz. that it is sufficiently forbidden that of Philip to the Eunuch was made use of whose words if thou believest with all thy heart 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 licet thou maiest being made in answer to the question quid ni what hinders why I may not be baptized as they express it to be lawfull for such as believe with all their hearts so they must plainly imply to any understanding that is not resolved to be impudent in withstanding truth that non licet it is not lawful for
should be baptized as neer as may be upon the time of their conversion and becoming disciples and if it have been then foâ—eslowd it must be after as soon as it can but in no wise so many years before it as the priests unviversally do it and such of whom it is not known nec per se nec per alios when they first were discipled and converted but oh how do I fear that as he that never doubted never believed so many of those implicit converts Mr. Baxter talks on that never knew when they were discipled and converted were never yet truly discipled hor converted at all to the truth as it is in Iesus but as they had it more by tradition from their fathers then unfained search of Scriptures such I say of whom t is not known when they first were converted and discipled shall by my consent be baptized when ever it is first known that they are converted and discipled unto Christ by their own profession of their conversion and discipleship and desire of baptism and this not by my consent alone but by the joint consent of all these very Scriptures which Mr. Baxter himself hath coâ—ed for our example and warrant all which if as far as Christs own precept and practise and the primitive Churches example can do it they do not warrant the baptism of all and onely such persons as were first taught or made disciples by preaching or instructed till they both learnt believed and imbraced the Gospel and professed themselves disciples and offered themselves to baptism and consequently of no infants then for my part I le lay aside all sense and reason as no more to be heeded as a help to understand the Scriptures and turn a very Tom-fool and he that can Altobelogick these Scripture institutions and instances into plain Scripture proofs of infant Church membership and baptism Erit mihi magus Apollo for there 's no mention of infants either expressely or implicitly in any one of them Oh therefore to Eccho back to Mr. Baxter a little in much what his own words to us concerning those Scriptures p. 127 that those who are so inclinable to seperation from the primitive practise would consider the unfitnesse of infants to be admitted by baptism to be Church members under the Gospel Oh that they that in church whole parishes as if they because the Pope will have it so were all Churches and will have no trial at all and discoveries of the work of persons conversion before they admit them but take them all at hap hazard as they fall from the belly within the bounds of that parish where they are plac't and popified would but lay to heart all these Scripture examples and make more conscience of observing their rule and not presume to be wiser and holier then God when it was mans first overthrow to desire to be but as God though he did not attempt to go beyond him as the priests do in adding other Subjects to his ordinances then himself appointed which changing of his law will be mans last overthrow Isa. 24. doubtlesse those that Christ baptized by his disciples were Church-members but those were not infants but such as were first made disciples by preaching onely Iohn 4. and be that will go beyond Iesus Christ in strictnesse shall go without me I do not think he will be offended with me for doing as he did i. e. for baptizing none but such as believe and professe themselves disciples and as repent of their sins and desire to be baptized in the name of Christ for the remission of them and so I have done with Mr. Baxter till we meet again onely since Mr. Marshal is pleased ponere obicem to object and bolt in here that we cannot say none in these places were baptized but such as did thus i. e. believe and professe themselves disciples p. 217. to Mr. Tombs because the word onely is not here I may well call it obicem or objectionem obularem a hint not worth a half penny and if he appeal to his own conscience it will tell him no lesse neverthelesse what ere he thinks I say again all that were baptized in the forenamed places were such as are there specified to be profest converts and believers and if there were any more let him assign and shew us whom and wee l believe him as for the housholds himself is in the sands whether there were any infants in them or no and I have shewd above that they that were baptized in them are exprest all by some clause or other exclusive of infants and conclusive onely of adult disciples besides Mr. Cotton confesses that the infants were not baptized with their parents and that the infants that were brought to Christ were not baptized at all for ought he knows nor their parents neither and here are all the Scriptures that declare how baptism was done then and to whom most of which are cited by Mr. Baxter himself from which you cannot possibly scrape so much as any old odd end of an example for such a businesse as your baptism As for us besides that plain precept we have in Mat. 28. even every whit of this is plain â—resident for our baptism and comes into our assistance against all your cavils O ye Priests for thus I argue viz. The baptism of men and women professing faith in the Lord Iesus confessing sins calling on the name of the Lord c. is a baptism yea all the baptism that the Scripture speaks of either in way of command or example But the baptism which we dispence is a baptism of men and women professing faith in our Lord Iesus confessing sins calling on the name of the Lord gladly receiving the word c. Ergo that baptism which we dispense is a baptism yea all the baptism the Scripture speaks of in way of either command or example Therefore Sâ—rs how hath Satan bewitched you that you cannot believe and obey the truth what will you onely think things and thrust your thoughts of them as oracles upon all others will you imagine and suppose and dream and dote and fancy and fain a baptism that the Scriptures and first Churches never knew and then father your figments upon the Scriptures and fasten them as the fashion which the whole world must be forct to follow and conform to Moreover I do not at present remember any one part of Scripture which your selves summon into your help in this case of infant baptism that doth not yield ammunition and much matter against you more then for you unlesse it be one or two used by your selves which one may as well with Skoggin untile the house to look for an hare as urge either pro or con about infants baptism so farre shall he be from finding in them any proof for that or the true baptism either as namely 2 Cor. 13.5 1 Thess. 4.13 There are but two places that I know of besides those I have already turned
in the world meaning not infants but such as are at years of discretion to whom the Gospell comes in any measure are of some or other of these three sorts viz. 1. Either such as neither believe at all nor so much as in words profess so to do Or 2. Such as in words say they believe and indeed do not Or 3. Such as both profess to believe and do indeed believe as they say Now I suppose we all hold the first sort viz. professed prophane ones so living so dying will be damned and unless we will deny the Scriptures we must needs hold the second sort whose professed faith is a dead faith shall not be saved for what doth it profit if a man say he hath faith Jam. 2.14 and have not works c. whereby onely faith is proved to be true indeed as it is professed can that faith save him as for the third sort viz true believers I subdivide them in my thoughts into 2 ranks First such as believing in Christ truly for salvation believe also baptism in its true way of dispensation and not rantism to be Christs will concerning them and these I am certain will submit accordingly and obey him in it for such as say they have faith and live in rebellion to what parts of Christs will they know they ought to obey him in have not faith to salvation what ever they say Or Secondly such as believing in Christ neither see nor believe nor practise baptism in that only true way wherin we dispense it and all this meerly for want of meanes to discover it to them or by means of the invincible ignorance of their times and ages wherein they lived and wherein according to the will of God permitting it so to be the mind of God in that thing hath been hid and as we know it hath in many more things for ages and generations together remained undiscovered which times of ignorance I believe God much winked at in those who sincerely owned truth and obeyed it so far as it then appeared and as they saw it though now he commands all men to return from Babylon in these daies of light wherein men may see but that they will not yea many prophets and righteous ones in the height of Popery have desired to see and hear what we do or may do yet could not the Scriptures lying lockt up as unlawful well-nigh for any to consult with therefore look you to it who say you do not this or that because you see it not for I testify to you that it is a time wherein the true light shineth so cleerly that men need not erre if they love not darkenesse more then light because their deeds are evil And the same measure of light and reformation and truth which might have denominated you reformists had you lived 100 years ago will not serve to denominate you so now since the smoak that darkned the sun and the aire is much more perfectly dispelled then in that twilight in this form I mean of such as could not see not because they would not but because it shone not do I rank all the Martyrs and those honest men whom you doâ—e on as Fathers and all true professors and believers for many hundreds of years together who witnessed to truth and suffered for it too so far as it did appear to them in their times to this sort of men I am more charitable and tender in my censures then you can possibly prove your selves to be and so I am also to infants for all your prate of pleading for them against our cruelties neither doth any doctrine that ever I delivered damn any of these to the pit of hell as your doctrine of so rigid haâ—sh fierce and cruel rejection of all infants from salvation save those of believers doth damn an hundred to one of them that dy in innocent infancy and where it should be that that Gentleman told you I preacht that doctrine That all such as believe and yet are not dipped shall be damned I know not but this I know that I was ever so far from conceiving much more expressing any such thing that where I speak in publique of that point of baptism in prevention of that prejudice and opinion of our harshness which your publike balling at us begeâ—s in your hearers I commonly deliver my self to the contrary But now Sirs as for your selves who so falsely father this doctrine upon me as mine and that with such abhorrency of both it and me for it and with such patheticall expressions of your zeal against it as that you even set your teeth an edge as it were and whet the spirits of all men to abhor us for it if they had nothing in all the world against us in point of doctrine but that not to let their souls intermeddle with our secrets whose rage is so fierce and whose wrath is so cruel what if I go no further then your own Account of the Disputation at Ashford to prove that your selves are the men that hold this doctrine that though persons believe yet if they be not baptized they must be damned and not we are you not then condemned out of your own mouths to perpetual abhorring now therefore Quid rides de te fabula narratur thou O Accountant art the man of whom this tale may be told more truly then of us who hast plotted so well as to plat a whip here for thy own back yea I appeal to the whole world of wise men â—o judge whether I do not bring proof out of your own paper if your true Account be yours and be as true an Account of your judgements as t is pretended to be of your disputation that it is your own judgement and not mine that baptism is so necessary to salvation that even such as believe and yet are denyed to be baptized notwithstanding that very belief of theirs shall be damned go bur back with me therefore to the 7th page of your Pamphlet and compare it with what you say in the third and fourth pages concerning childrens believing and see what an Account you have there given of your own minds in this matter In the fourth you conclude from the like in the children of the Iewes that the children of beliâ—ving parents have faith in the third page you conclude from Mat. 18.6 that little ones do believe now look but in the seventh page and let all the world judge whether you do not there say of these same persons viz. of the infants of believing parents of whom you asserted before they were believers that if they may not be baptized and that 's none of the childrens fault neither as the neglect of baptism is in men it destroies the hope that the parents can have of their salvation for it leaves them in no better condition say you then Turks and Pagans and their children the salvation of whom is with you as hopeless for ought I see as of the Devills which
to children of believing parents as to persons at years for we have Gods testimony concerning them in this matter whilest you have but mans testimony concerning himself yea Christ hath amply declared his good will to them in Scripture whose testimony is not onely Tanta-mount but to be preferred before mens from which it more plainly appears that infants have faith then the testimony of any particular person can make it appear for himself Baptist So you say indeed both before page 5. and behind p. 19. but how dare you assert then that you go not about to prove certainly but only probably that believers infants do believe for verily if it be so as you say that God himself gives testimony for them in Scripture that these little infants do believe then never say no judgement of science can be passed no discovery made of the habit of faith nor peremptory presuming what infants have faith and what not till you see them act it for Gods testimony is more credible then mans indeed hath he said it and is it not so yea verily let him be true but every man a lyar for mans own word can create but probability and charity and not so much neither unless he speak it from Gods word that believers infants do believe and infidels infants do not but if God have said so then cursed be he that will not believe it to be so for if his word be not perfectly demonstrative and scientifical and past all doubt but I confesse I find not a word of his concerning such a thing then I le never trust self confuting Clergy men any more 2. Whereas you answer that in those children where there is lesse promptness to acts of faith then in others we cannot argue ad negationem habitus because they work not equally What is this to the present question and position concerning no more inclinablenesse to holy actions in children of Christians then of infidels for those are such of whom your selves assert the one have faith the other have none but these you speak of now are adult ones such as in whom there is some promptness to acts of faith appearing differenced only secundum magis minus some inclining more some lesse to acts of faith concerning all whom sith those of them that have least promptness have at least an apparent promptnesse to acts of faith who denies but that they may have faith though they work not equally but what 's this to the proof of more or lesse inclinablenesse to holy actions among infants who are so far from having some more some lesse that even none of them have any promptnesse thereto at all 3. Whereas you fiddle it on a little further and think to coop us up by your crosse interrogatory you may well call it a crosse one indeed for its a net that catches your selves let us answer it which way soever you would have us For if we say heathens infants are inclined to acts of faith and should make that good against you as we shall hardly ere trouble our selves to do unlesse we did believe it to be truth can you give any just account of your denial of baptism to these yea who can forbid water why they may not be baptized that have and are inclined to act faith as well as the other and in whom as in those of believing parents the work is palpably at least possibly and probably the very same But if we say no infidels infants are not inclined then we must take what comes on it for you are resolved to hit us home indeed and so you do while you do that at last cast which had you done at first you had saved your selves a deal of hurt which you have done your selves by circumlocuting so long in way of proving the very Minor proposition of that last Argument which Reason urged against you viz. that Christians children are not more inclined to actions of faith then those of infidels for at last you fall flatly as your safest way to deny that Minor and assert contrarily thereto that children of Christians are more inclined to holy actions then other children which if it be true First how grosly do you contradict that you say in the lines above where you seem to grant that there may be more inclinablenesse in infidels children and promptnesse to holy actions then in Christians Secondly I wonder how you come to be experienced in it for if you Clergie men be all Christians and so you are in your own account your children excepting some that by the breeding you give them grow up to the same stamp of Christianity you print upon them do for all their native holy inclinations not seldome prove the lewdest and rudest of any mens children in a Countrey for not onely through the Priests and Prophets own practise but from their posterity too oft times prophaness goes out into all the world or else the Popes had never filled it with iniquitie as they have done The nexâ— objection of Reason is as followes Review 7. Faith comes by hearing Little children cannot hear must lesse understand Ergo they have no faith They might also conclude they have no faculty of understanding neither for that comes by hearing but infants have an hearing the spirit opens their ears he must do it in adultis or for all their hearing they will never believe He is not tyed to means though we are without the outward hearing of the Word he works faith in little children The manner of his working is miraculous as it is in the conversion of every soul enough hath been said to that before nor ought it to be objected if miraculous then not ordinary for the work of the spirit in the conversion of men is both Re-Review Had Reason had the managing representing and writing of this Argument her self she would not have set it down in so weak absurd and silly a manner as Reasonlesse hath done it in in this place Reason never held such a thing yet as is asserted in this Minor viz. that children cannot hear much lesse understand for abstract hearing from understanding and take these two in sensu diviso as you do here and children can hear but in sensu composito they cannot it cannot rationally nor truly be said they cannot so much as hear much lesse understand but they cannot hear so as to understand or they cannot hear understandingly as those must that hear in order to believing and whose faith comes by hearing a hearing t is true infants have for they are not destitute of that sense more then of seeing and the rest Auriculas Asini quis non habet the same hearing that an Asse horse or other bruit beast hath which is only the sound of words without the knowledge of the sense who hath not save he that is deaf but the hearing they have is neither such as Paul speaks of there nor yet that heating you say they have viz. an inward hearing
Evangelist whence Philip was called Evangelista that being the very thing made him an Evangelist and not his Deaconship besides which he had no other office because he did Evangelizare no man can give a reason why the scattered disciples that did Evangelizare or preach the Gospel with him should not be denominated Evangelists as well as he and indeed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differ no more then a Preacher and he that preaches and though every Pastor be both an Evangelist and a Prophet yet he that saies every Evangelist and Prophet is a Pastor or an ordained officer qua sic or that either of these are nomen officii or sounding forth more then a person thus or thus gifted viz. the Evangelist to preach the Gospel for the conversion of such as are yet without the Prophet to speak to the exhortation edification and comfort of the Church and people already converted and both these occasionally only and not as by vertue of an ordination to an office may say it ten times over before the Scripture rightly understood will furnish him to make proof of it once And as these ordinary disciples for the Apostles abode still at Ierusalem Act. 8.1 went every where as well as Philip pro suo modulo Evangelizantes preaching Christ according to their abilities so the hand of the Lord was with those occasional preachers that a great number believed and turned to the Lord by their means and were baptized also undoubtedly by their hands yea the famous Church of Antioch had its foundation from this and grew into a Church which they could not do without baptism before any actual officer came neer them for though Paul and Barnabas walked with them for a year and improved their gifts for their edification yet neither of these were yet actually any more then Evangelists and Prophets though before by God intended and not long after by the Church visibly ordained to their Apostleship i. e. men of excellent gifts and this will appear Act. 11. from verse 19. to the end with Act. 13. v. 4. and backward to the beginning you do therefore greatly err not knowing the Scriptures which tell you also plainly that though Paul converted all the Corinthians yet his own hands baptized but a few committing that dispensation as an inferiour work to his preaching to the hands of inferiour disciples as Mr. Baxter himself also confesses to your confutation asserting it from 1 Cor. 1 17. so though Peter converted the company in Cornelius house yet surely he baptized them not all if any at all with his own hands but left the administration to the hands of others some one or more of the brethren that came with him And the manner of speech implies plainly no lesse for he commanded that they should all be baptized in the name of the Lord yea so far is the word from tying up the dispensation of baptism to an office that we have much more president and proof after Christs ascension of comon disciples then you have of officers baptizing You therefore make much more a do in this then needs you strain indeed at a goat and swallow a camel and busy your self so about the truth of administrators that you have lost the truth and substance of the administration it self were your baptism true baptism indeed there is no necessity that ordained Ministers must administer it but unlesse it were truer then it is no matter if it were never administred at all Know therefore Sirs I beseech you that the verity worth weight and efficacy of baptism depends not upon the quality of the person administring but upon the truth of the subject to whom and the true form wherein t is administred the Scripture prescribes plainly who they are that shall and in what manner these shall but not at all by whom they shall be baptized t is the duty of them that believe to be baptized and his duty that baptizes to baptize indeed not rantize only and to baptize such as being taught the Gospel do believe it but who they must be that are to baptize those is neither here nor there to the baptism for ought I find in the word so they be but Masculine disciples nay though the person baptizing be not only no officer but in the case above named as yet unbaptized himself yet if the person baptized be not only a believing disciple but also baptized really and indeed his baptism is never the worse for the other Experience tells me and I believe many more that have been baptized according to truth that t was drawing neer to Christ with true hearts in his true ordinance that made us accepted in his sight not the qualifications of the baptizers whose baptism and ministerial functions were they invested with both could add never the more validity nor verity to our baptism as neither could the non-entity of either of those in them have possibly made the baptism so sincerely submitted to be in any measure void and of no effect the placing so much in persons administring as to think our selves ere the better for that was that fantastical fopery of the Corinthians for a while one saying I am of Paul another I of Apollo another I of Caephas i. e. I was baptized by such or such which made the Apostle Paul who with his own hands baptized but some of them well nigh wish he had baptized none of them at all when he saw their carnall glories in the persons administring and blesse God that he baptized no more least they should have thougt the better of themselves and of their baptism for its dispensation of it by his hands The administrators therefore being baptized or not baptizd minister or no minister maketh the baptism if elsewise warrantable neither better nor worse of it self all this I speak all this while not as granting that our baptism is by unbaptized persons and that my self am no minister of the Gospel for neither of these shall be yielded by any meanes unlesse you were more able then you are to prove them I speak it suppositively that if these were both so yet both my baptizing and being baptized may be warrantable enough notwithstanding or else if we deemed it worth while to seek out what succession our baptism hath had from the Apostles in a series without interruption t is possible there were some disciples in all ages that owned the truth though so few and despised that their generation can scarcely be declared for who can declare his generation whose life in himself and his was still cut off from the earth but we go by the word that is above all Church and Ministry in our account of our baptism and ministry and not by succession in either and as for your selves that hold so much on succession and boast of a lineal descent of your ministry and Rantism from the Apostles t will pussle you no lesse to prove that if we put you to
so little truth in the ground of it that its stark rotten at the very root it is a dispute Ex falso suâ—positis t is taken by you for granted as necessary when it shall never be yielded to by us for so much as probable that Christ and the Eunuch were baptized either naked or else in the cloathes they ware immediately both before or after either for both Christ comming purposely to be baptized and the Eunuch though not thinking of baptism till Philip met him yet returning homeward from Jerusalem where he had been for some time were undoubtedly accommodated otherwise and with change sutable enough to such a businesse Secondly it supposes that both Christ Philip and the Eunuch posted all so immediately several waies from the water that they staied not so much as to cover themselves with other Cloathes then those they went with into and came up with out of the water whereas as nature it self forbids us to believe they went in much more that they went away naked for common sense forbids us to take the word immediately in so strict a sense as to think they departed in such extremity of hast as was no way consistent with the shifting and so fitting of themselves for departure Immediately doth seldome sound forth such a suddennesse as admits of no intertime nor invening action at all yea sometimes it signifies no sooner then some howers some daies some years after according to the nature of the matter asserted in the sentence wherein it hath its use as Matth 24.29 nor doth it expresse any other in Mark 1.13 where it is said Immediately the spirit drave Christ into the Wildernesse then within a while after his baptism as appears not only by Matth. 4.1 where it is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which word is there peractis praedictis ordinative of another story but specially by Luke 4.1 where it s said plainly that he was returned from Iordan before it is said he was led into the wildernesse and had you or Mr. Simpson compared Scripture with Scripture or heeded the harmony of the Evangelists you had saved your selves the labour of all those lines and lost nothing by it but what is worth nothing viz. the Argument it self for as if I should say immediately after the child was sprinkled the Gossips and friends went along with it home it were absurd to understand me so as if I meant that they did not stay so long after as to wipe the childs face and put the face cloathes over it and lap it up again in the loose blanket to keep it warm so no lesse absurdity is it to understand that speech viz. And immediately the spirit caught away Philip and immediately after Christ was baptized he went in to the wildernesse so strictly as if there was not staying so much as to reassume any garments they had laid aside in order to the more conveniency of their baptizing One thing more I cannot but take notice of in this clause as t is Mr. Simpsons and that is what little proportion if not contradiction it holds with the words of Mr. Simpson or rather of Mr. Blake used by Mr. Simpson immediately precedent to these in his letter for he will not give way to it at any hand that Christ and the Eunuch went into the water or at least that they were put into the water by Iohn and Philip or taken thence but onely in the phrase of Mr. Blake at the third hand of Mr. Cook that they went to the water and came thence and yet here he forgets himself so far as to the confutation of himself and them to speak 〈◊〉 the phrase or Scripture concerning Christ and the Eunuch viz. that they came out of the water which if they could do and neither went into it nor were put into it then I know not how to understand plain English Rantist Well this is all but by the businesse let us go on and consider what more Mr. Bl. brings to disprove dipping to be the primitive custome he tells you further p. 9. it was the Apostles way to baptize disciples as soon as they were become Converts the same day rather sometimes the same houre as we see in the Eunuch the Jaylor and Lydia and multitudes of others but conversion of Disciples necessarily happened when there was no season for dipping the Element of water being over Cold for that service If any object that in those Countreyes there was no danger in the coldest times He answers the commission being for all Nations disciples were made in all Countreys how soone saith he came the word to this Nation c. sometimes therefore saith he the water and weather was too cold for dipping Secondly the Number of Converts were so numerous 3000 5000. in one day that there was no possibility of baptizing in that Manner Acts 2.41 and the 44. Thirdly Sometimes the Baptizers were in that condition that they were unable for that work in that way as Paul and Silas men newly taken out of the stocks in the Inner Prison with such stripes that their Convert was fain forthwith to wash them in this case they were unfit to wade into the water for that work and had they made any such adventure the Scripture would not have been silent Fourthly Sometimes the baptized have not been in case for dipping and plunging which was Pauls case upon the Aparition of the vision he was lead into Damascus where he continues without meat or drink three daies and upon Ananias his comming in and instructing of him he is baptized and when he had received meat saith the text he was strengthned will any believe he went out in this case with Ananias into the water over head in water before the taking of any sustenance Baptist. That persons were baptized as soon as ever they became Converts and could be discerned to be disciples even the same houre commonly without delay is an undeniable truth for that and no other was the very period of time at which what ever their parents were they were deemed to have true title to baptism for neither if their parents were wicked were such excluded as were nor if the parents were godly were such admitted as were not converted upon the Account of the fathers goodnesse or badnesse but as they believed or not themselves and this makes me the more amazed at it that it is come to passe since that the faith of the father can now intitle the child to baptism though the child have no faith at all of his own and yet I muse more sith you all count infants at least of believers to be disciples from the womb why yet you delay their baptism so long and do it not at the same houre of their birth for whether they be Discipuli nati or discipuli facti if they be disciples as you falsly suppose they are if the primitive rule were to baptize persons as soon as ever they appeared
duty and whether it be Mr. Baxters trick onely or the divels in him to draw men under pretence of Scripture and tempting of God to self-preservation so far as not to trust God in the discharge of duty is not amisse for Mr. Baxter to examine for that it savours not of spirit but of flesh it is so sure that it needs no examination If therefore it were indeed so dangerous to be dipt as is imagined by Mr. Cook and Mr. Baxter yet I see no word of Christ willing a declension of the dispensation But what if this be but a meer Chimaera of these mens coining how much lesse are we then excused in our non-submission and yet such and no other will it be found to be at last by then we have sounded this most murderous mater to the bottom For as to Mr. Baxters dismall divination of the hideous consequences that are if you will believe him as it were entaild to this course of constant dipping and his composed catalogue of Chronicall diseases viz. Catarrhes obstructions Apoplexies Lethargies Palsies all Comatous diseases Cephalalgies Hemicranies Phthises debilitie of the stomach Crudities Feavers Disentaries Diarrhaeas Colicks Iliack passions Convulsions Spasmes Tremores and all Hepatick Splenetick pulmoniack distempers and Hippocondriacks also All which to what end he hath Nomen-clattered together here I know not unlesse to make himself whilest he denies Mr. Tombs to be a Physitian seem to be a smatterer in the Art of Physick as to that pittifull piece of proof I say together with that formidable lecture Mr. Cook reads us concerning freezing and suffocation it is ridiculous and frivilous fibbling to fray faint hearted folks with from finding out that straight gate and narrow way that leads to life but a few will find it for all this especially when they shall find their so much believed Mr. Baxter to be such a flat false accuser as he is of this way of truth Hear therefore o ye doters on Mr. Baxters deep divinity he talks if you will believe him as if it were little lesse then impossible that persons should be dipped in cold weather in cold water and not be killed suddenly by hundreds and by thousands or at least not be cast into some Chronical disease which within a while must be an occasion of their death whereas there are hundreds if not thousands alive at this hour even in this cold Countrey as they call it many if not most of which have past through that sharp service in the sharpest seasons conversion falling out as ordinarily in winter as in summer whose present health both proves the falsnesse and reproves the madnesse of your prophet Yea I have cause to know a little better then every one and a little more then Mr. Baxter in this Expertus loquor I speak by experience against which no Argument of his availes I have seen since my five or six years converse among the commonly called Anabaptists many a one baptized totally in cold watet and weather too by others besides toward two hundred by my silly self many of which have come forth covered though not with yce as Mr. Cook phrases it out yet with that water which yce truly covered but just before yet never saw I any one so baptized in all that time who was not if not better in meer bodily respects yet at least as well after it as before he tells you if you will believe him that totall dipping is for nothing but to dispatch men out of the world that are burdensome but then I wonder how the Creature called Anabaptist that is so burthensome to Mr. Baxter doth not dy out of the way by hundreds and thousands and so save him and others that labour of dispute against their growth but rather grow from hundreds into thousands so fast that they are not likely to be dispatcht out of the world till they are such a burthensom stone as will press them to death i. e. the whole Priesthood that is troubled with them He tells you if you will believe him that dipping will destroy men except they be preserved by Miracles why else doth he say speaking specially as to this ordinance of dipping God hath not appointed ordinances in his Church that will destroy men except they be preserved by miracles now if it be not so as hee saies viz. that it is a miracle to be dipped and not destroyed then what a strange man is he to say so but if it be so indeed viz. a Miracle to be dipped and not destroyed then â—o fools and slow of heart to believe the truth though the Lord confirm it to you with Miracles which are wrought day by day amongst the Disciples who are dipped Winter and Summer as occasion is yet are not destroyed Yea whereas Mr Baxter dares say that in Cities like London and amongst Gentlewomen that have been tenderly brought up and antient people and weak people and shopkeepers especially women that take but little of the cold aire dipping in cold weather would in the course of nature kill hundreds and thousands suddenly or cast them into some Chronical disease I dare say that in the City of London there is hundreds if not thousands dipped in cold water and as it happens in cold weather too many of which are Gentlewomen tenderly brought up and antient and weak people and shop keepers and women that take but little of the cold aire and yet by the course of grace they are preserved from perishing by either cold or suffocation yea and out of the City of London too for these hands have baptized of all these sorts in the Countrey viz. Gentlewoman most tenderly brought up very antient people very weak people shopkeepers and specially two women both alive at this day which I 'l become a fool in telling you of them sith Mr. Baxter compells me did take so little of the cold aire that one of them if my memory fail me not and if I were truly informed was but once out of her house in 5 year before by reason of a dropsy and that was with much adoe and but a little before her dipping and to hear this doctrine notwithstanding which weaknesse and such swellings that she was wellnigh twice as bigg as now she is and scarce able to betake her self to the water she was dipped and was rather better in body then worse after it and after sending for some elders of the Church to pray over her and anoint her with oile in the name of the Lord according to his own institution in that behalf Iam. 5. was within a while so asswaged in her swellings that she is now as slâ—nder as in former times before ever he distemper took hold on her The other had scarce been out of her Chamber in two years together and durst not dip her finger in cold water and was ready to have her breath stopt with the least annoyance that could be yet was dipped and was better after it through Gods mercy
Ba. argues from the samenesse of the Olive tree the Jew was broken off from and the Gentile was grafted into that therefore as infants stood members then so they must now I answer it is true there is some kind of indentity between the Jewish and the Gospel Church but not such as concludes an indentity of membership for infants they are the same ingenere visiblis Ecclesiae they agree in the common name of Church and visible Church elected and segregated from the world but there 's little else that I know of wherin they are the same they differ in circumstantials in their accidental forms in their officers ordinances customs constitutions subjects members that being constituted of one whole nation of people or fleshly seed of Abraham taken out from all other nations this of a spiritual seed of Abraham i. e. believers scaterred here and there taken out of any nation as they happen to be called almost every nation some the ceremony of inchurching Abrahams own much more any other mans meer fleshly seed being ceased Mr. Bax. peddles on apace and brings a company of Scripures in proof of infants Church-membership and baptism which though he stile them as indeed his whole book Plain Scripture proofs for those two yet a man that is not minded to force the Scripture into the Service of his own fancy because it does not serve it freely may look till dooms day before he see in them any plain perspicuous proof of either one of these or of the other Christ saith he Mat. 23.37 would have gathered Ierusalem oft as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings but they would not therefore sure he would not have put them or their infants out of the Church the strength of the consequence lies here saith he he would have gathered whole Ierusalem and that into the visible Gospel Church therefore infants also Now that Christ does not speak of whole Ierusalem here as he saith he does both men and infants the circumstances of the text do fully evince to us for he speaks of the same persons he speaks to and the same persons he complains of saying ye would not the same and no other are they to whom he speaks when he saies Oh Ierusalem how often would I have gathered c. but those were men and women only whom he called to believed in him and not infants Again he gathered them by preaching of the word into baptism and membership and received all that came and no more viz. sometimes the children and not the parents sometimes the parents and not the children so that a mans foes for the truths sake sometimes were they of his own family his own flesh therefore he offered not to gather infants for he preacht not to them nor called them at all nor were any more baptized and added to the Church-fellowship in the Gospel then they that gladly received the word that did not infants yea 3000 were gathered into the first Gospel Church by preaching and baptism in one day and never an infant among them all for they surely did not continue in fellowship in breaking of bread and prayers Acts 2. Therefore whereas Mr. Ba. in his Epistle to the parish of Bewdley challenges Mr. T. to name him one particular Church since Adam either of Jewes or Gentiles where infants were not Church-members if they had any infants till 200 years ago I name him the first Gospel Church that ever was Act. 2. in which there was not one infant yea there was three thousand baptized in one day and it is a hazard but that those three thousand had many perhaps no lesse than three thousand infants belonging to them all and yet as Mr. Cotton thinkes so think I that none of their infants were baptized with them much lesse were added with them to the Church or continued with them in fellowship as the whole Gospel Church did in breaking of bread and prayers yea though there was no infants in that Church which was gathered at Ierusalem it self to which Christ saies how oft would I have gathered thy children c. and therefore Mr. Baxs sense is very sinister so I challenge him again to shew me not by such dubious muddy cloudy circumlocutory inconsequential consequences as he doth but undeniable evidences any one of all the Gospel Churches of the primitive times either of Jewes or Gentiles which we are all to reâ—orm by viz. Ierusalem Rome Corinth Galatia Philippi Ephesus Thessalonica or any other to fellowship in which there was one infant baptized added and admitted and I shall cry him mercy and lay down the Cudgells at his feet and acknowledge he hath broke my pate The next Scripture he uses is more impertinent then this yet Mr. Ba. makes a certain shift to squeese an argument out of it and to compel it invita minervâ not a little against its own intent and meaning to corroborate his crooked crazie creed concerning the inchurching and cristening of infants viz. Rev. 11.15 whence he thus Syllogizes If the kingdoms of this world either are or shall be the kingdomes of the Lord and of his Christ then infants also must be members of his kingdom i. e. the visible Church the Antecedent is the words of the text indeed as he saies but the sequel is so sure and follows so firmly in his fancy that he saies nothing can be said against it that is sense or reason but indeed it self is against both sense and reason Who would ever think if the word did not declare that the things of wisdome are hid from the wise and prudent that such a disputer as Mr. Ba. holds himself to be should deduce the now membership of infants from such a premise as this viz. because the kingdomes of this world are or else shall be the kindomes of God and Christ what 's this I trow toward the eviction of the other much every way saith Mr. Ba. yea so much that for any thing he can see this text alone were sufficient to decide the whole controversie whether infants must be Church members Amen so beit say I let this Scripture decide it and let 's see what Mr. Ba. saies on t If they can say quoth he by kingdoms is meant here some part of the kingdom excluding all infants such men may make their own creed on those termes let the Scripture say what it will I know in some places the word kingdome and Ierusalem c. is taken for a part but if we must take words alwayes improperly because they are taken so sometimes saith he then we shall not know how to understand any Scripture so of necessity it must be understood properly i. e in its prime signification of the whole kingdoms and whole Ierusalem with him and not improperly for a part onely though Mr. Blake to Mr. Black saith upon occasion of our pleading for the proper signification of baptize nothing more ordinary then to have words used out of their prime signification whereby
one foot out saying yet I may go on the other in saying yet I may go back bespeaking its patrons to be in a twitter in a temper between Hawk and Buzzard afraid to dispute too downrightly for disputation least that should ingage them another time ashamed too directly to dispute down disputation least it be thought they have no mind to it any more But to come to the thing it self I confesse you have spoken Bonum but not Bene Rectum but not Rectâ— it is a moddle of for the most part right good true and honest matter onely made use of either very simply or very subtly to a bad end viz. the provoking of the Priesthood no need to bid mad folks â—un to preach up a false and oppose the practise of the true baptism Secondly most miserably misapplied if conscientiously and not cunningly it is the better to an improper subject and perverted the wrong way viz. to the fastning of the name Hereticks and Schismaticks for non-conformity to the Clergy upon those true Churches of Christ for non-conformity to whom in opinion and practise if miscariage about baptism may properly be so stiled the Clergy are in very deed the trust Hereticks and Schismaticks in the world I shall therefore in a serious survey and examine of what Heresie and Schism is discover plainly First that the people whom you call Anabaptists upon account of meer dissent and separation from you in the point of baptism are no Hereticks nor Schismaticks but the truest visible Church that Christ hath upon the earth Secondly that you the PPPriesthood of the Nations who dissent from them in that point are as to that point at least the veriest Hereticks and Schismaticks your selves Thirdly after some pathetical expostulation with your selves addresse my self by way of Peraphrase upon your own pathetical and paraenetical passages pathetically to exhort the true Pastors and paraenetically to perswade all people as you do yours to beware of us to beware of you the spirituallity by whom the way of truth is dispited who though you disguise your selves under the name of Gods Clergy or Heritage for a while yet will appear to be but cruel crushers of his true Clergy in the end First then let us see what Heresie and Schism is and then who is a Schismatical Heretick in the doctrine of baptism Heresie as to the Gospel is held and that truly by all manner of men I think the holding or maintaining any erroneous opinion in the faith and doctrine of the Gospel contrary to that doctrine delivered by Christ and his Apostles in the primitive times obstinately and pertinacously against all meanes that can be used towards conviction of the truth Schism is division or making of a rent fraction or faction in or separation from the true Church and from walking with them in the truth by the holders or maintainers of such false doctrine or opinion and consequently Schismatical Hereticks who ere they be are such as are bewitched from the simplicity of the truth as it is in Jesus and from the doctrine that was once received by the Church from him and his immediate Apostles so as both to believe and practise contrarily thereunto against all manifestations of the truth whereby to reduce and reclaim them and do also rend from and make a head against the true Church and true head thereof Christ Jesus separating themselves so as to have no fellowship or communion i. e. nor union of action nor unity of affection with them that walk in truth Now whether it be you O PPPriests who rantize infants or we who baptize believers that are thus gone off and divided from the primitive faith and practise from the true head of that Church from the true foundation i. e. the doctrine of the Apostles Eph. 2.20 Heb. 6.1.2 and from fellowship with and conformity to the true Church in baptism and otherwise is evident to him that is not blind or blear-eyed for verily the water baptism which we dispense is abundantly shewed above to be that one baptism Eph. 4. which was used in the primitive times then which there is no other water baptism enjoined or exemplified in the word as Christs ordinance to his disciples viz. the burying of new born babes i. e believers in water and bringing them up again in token of Christs death burial and resurrection and of their dying to sin and rising to newnesse of life this I say is that one onely baptism the Churches then practised and thus and no otherwise do we at this day for which the word is our warrant yea it is that faith which was once delivered unto the Saints that we now contend for and the words which were spoken before by the Apostles of the Lord as we are specially injoined to do in these latter daies by both Peter and Iude who foretold how they would be sleighted as we see they now are by the two Spiritualties viz. the Rantizer and the Ranter the one Hereticizing in the excesse by adding a new thing the other in the defect by owning nothing both Schismatizing accordingly from the way of truth and howbeit after that way which you call Heresie Schism separation from the Church and such like so worship we God yet as sure as the coats upon your back you shall first or last to your weal or wo find that as to the point of baptism Churchfellowship and the supper also it is no other then the way of truth we walk in yea so far are we from erring and Schismatizing from the Church that we of all men do stand for a full reformation in faith practise doctrine discipline worship manners government and baptism according to the word of God and the example of the best reformed Churches i. e. those mentioned in the word according to which we are all sworn to endeavour to reform as we will not be justly charged with Perjury Perfidiousnesse and Prevarication the guilt of all which how little the Orthodox protesting covenanting Clergy are clear of in the sight of God and man is good for them to consider yea conformity in all things to the primitive practise is that we plead for presse after and persue and howbeit to the shame of his ignorance be it spoken Orthodox Mr. Baxter is pleased among other sectaries to charge the Anabaptists so he calls us that baptize aright as the Authors and approvers of the horrible wickednesse of these times and speaks of us as dispappointing and destroying their hopes in point of reformation to the grief of his heart yet with grief of heart that the way of truth should be evil spoken of by him by reason of such as do wickedly indeed yet those lascivious waves he laies to our score are lesse approvvd on in our Churches then in the purest Parish Church in all Christ'ndom Kederminster not excepted yea I tell him and God I hope will one day seal it home upon his heart to the grief of it another way that
made void his commandments and subpaena damni Temporalis et eternae damnationis imposed mens Traditions arrogantly in their stead so you in your severall lines have done no lesse yea you also make people to erie with all your might and whatever tender consciences find Christ piping to the contrary in his word yet if they dance not after you pipe when it sounds to the tune of Tiches and put not into your moneths you cry peace but bite with your teeth and prepare war against them Mich. 3.5 possessing the world with prejudice against them as a sort of seditious Sectaries damnnble Hereticks and Schismaticks yea exceptis excipiendis saving some few scatterings here and there of more sober and moderate minded Ministers like so many graines of salt to keep the rest from stinking too much in these states where you have or would have raigned who have not been so hot spur as their fellowes by the good will of P. the Presbiter as well as of P. the Prelate and P the Pope many an honest mans native countrey for non-conformity to his Gangraenaticall domination should ere this have been made too hot to hold him so far therefore as separa from the true church and her orders may denominate a people Heretical Schismaticks and Divines themselves place the Nature of Heresie much in seperation and Schism the Denomination seems to be your due O P P Priests who are departed from the primitive church and not ours for departing from you ye are are those Schismatical Teachers that are rent all from the primitive plainesse of the Gospel and present pompousnesse of each others way and have seduced the whole world into spiritual thraldome idolatry and superstition and inticed them into a carnal liberty of calling all things according as your carnal ends and interests impose the names of Heresie or truth upon them you are S S She that having got the good liking of the Kings and Kingdomes of the earth to confide in you do close the eyes of their judgements as Dr. Featley faines we do with your birdlime of Schism from the true church and head thereof Christ Jesus and bewitcht them into an implicit submission to Papism Arch-bishopism Oecumaenical Synodism Provincial Câ—assism and so lead them as you lift into Anti-gospelism Antiscripturism c. making a prey of them and though Featly had the faculty of faining the Baptists to be such yet you are indeed devisers of new religions and Spiritual Impostors falsely pretending to Christ as the Patron and Authorizer of your new doctrines of which Paedo-baptism is one which because there is not the least dram of evidence for it in the word of Christ therefore when people begin to question it you amuse the vulgar with the names of some divine Authors or other not Peter nor Paul c. but St Austin St Gregory S Chrysostome c. at Rome his Holiness the Pope the holy Mother the Catholique Church Ghostly Fathers c. and in places where those subterfuges are not regarded Reverend Sinods of grave Orthodox Divines Ministers of Christ Suffrages of all the learned Divines in the Reformed Churches c. and this you do to secure your Tenets from the hazards of disputes and exempt your persons and actions from the rest of examination as if there were such infallibility herein that it is no lesse then blaspemy to doubt or call in question the Dictates or Directories c. of such and such thus bearing your selves up with bombasting termes of Fathers Spiritual Ius divinum c. you gain to the captivating of the reason of men so far that they resign up themselves jurare in v v vostram sententiam and will be as their Priests are and never believe but that they believe the truth when all this while there is nothing but humane authority and humanum est errare for most things you do yea you are indeed the greatest Schismaticks or Rentmakers in the seamlesse coat of Christ that the Earth bears you are they that have caused divisions and offences contrary to that doctrine which was at first received at Rome and in all Churches and by good words and fair speeches viz. decency order c. have deceived the hearts of the simple so as to make more conscience of serving those belly gods the Priests then the Lord Jesus according to his own will therefore when you talk so much to us of the Church and your Church crying out as the Pope does against the Bishops for theirs and the Bâ—shops against you Presbyters for your departure from them Hereticks Hereticks that disturb the peace of the Church forsake the Church infringe the unity of the Church yet I say what Church so long as there is no other Church constitution among you to this day then that of parishes into which the Pope put all Christ'ndome what Church so long as the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles on which every true Church is built is cut off disclaimed and exploded and neither the word purely preached nor the Sacraments duly administred which by Calvin and Featley themselves are both made such true notes of the true visible Church that wherever they are there is the true Church and where not there 's no true Church what ever there may be in pretence yea verily so far are you from due administration of the sacraments giving the Supper to such as were never at all much lesse truly baptized many of you Presbyterians not administring it at all to your flocks whom you contend were truely initiated into your Church by baptism that indeed as you have substituted infant rantism instead of it so you preach down that due administration of baptism and the Supper which according to the primitive pattern Acts 2. is at this day to be found amongst us withall the vehemency you can proclaiming us Schismatical hereticks for declining your disorderly administrations and according to our covenant pressing on to that purity of administration of Gospell ordinances which lies now in such plain English before mens eyes that all your glosses wil beguile them but little longer there is no danger therefore of being rent from the Church of Christ in departing from participation with you in your oppositions of the truth therefore never glory so much in these vain lying words the Church of God the Church of God which is indeed the Common tone of all you Romanists each to other in your rendings each from other for there is none of you all three have a true visible Church of Christ among you nor yet right any administration of the things you call Sacraments whether we speak of either baptism or the Supper My answer then to the whole PPPriesthood of Christ'ndom even ye Protestant Clergy also from all whom as well as from the Pope we who are fictitiously stiled Anabaptists and charged as Schismatical Hereticks for so doing and troublers of the unity of the Church are departed shall be the
of the civil powers have been dâ—nd by the usual addresses of the PPPriesthood unto them for help against Hereticks and Schismaticks and by their hideous outcries viz. of the Prelates against the Presbyters saying help O King and the Presbyters against the Sectaries help O Parliament all will be overspread with a Gangrene of Heresie Murder Murder c. O ye Magistrates restrain dipping in cold water as you will save the lives of your subjects and such stuff and felly as is powred out to the Magistrate by the Minister against men more true to Christ and Magistracy then himself I humbly conceive the Magistrate may lawfully and more acceptably to God then otherwise save himself so much labour as to let these matters alone yea he may do well to see that whatever Religion men be of that are under his civil power in each state whether Iewish Turkish Heathenish Popish Prelatical Presbyterian or Independent may not be injurious each to other without satisfaction in civil matters and to see that none commit any uncivil actions that are contrary to that common honesly and righteousnesse among men which men as magistrates are set to vindicate to see that none live be they of this or that Religion dishonestly without correction to see that none usurp Dominion over each others faith so as to make all men believe as some do whether they see ground to believe so yea or no by the civil sword to see that in order to their own eternal good they find out and walk in the way of truth themselves as it is in Jesus and when they are once assured that they are in the truth themselves to let that truth be verbally declared per se or per alios as much as they please but not forced upon others as their faith further then the light of preachings and discourses may prevail to fasten it on others consciences and to see that even enemies to the Gospel and true Church may have no more then the weapons of the Churches warfare which are not carnal used towards them to make them friends and as to those who walk in truth whoever they are or shall but be supposed by the successive representatives Princes or Powers to walk in the way of truth to see that they be countenanc't but not too much maintenanc't because Christs disciples nor cookt up to all the honour and preferment and places of trust and advantage above their fellow subjects to the ingendring of jealousies and emulations in others that may be happily though not so neer the truth of Christ yet as trusty to the State as themselves for that too often choaks the Church but onely that with an indifferent impartial hand as men whether in Church or out being otherwise honest and able and of publique spirits not selfish nor covetous nor cruel c. may seem fit to be intrusted with such and such places so they may be chosen and disposed of thereunto in a word to see that such as make prayers and supplications and intercessions and giving of thanks for all men for Kings and such as are in authority living in all godlinesse and honesty may as well as others and others also as well as they living soberly and honestly though not Godly in Christ Jesus nor worshipping in way of truth but falsly may live a quiet and peaceable life without persecution as to confiscation bonds or death for doing and denying according to the dictates of their own though yet blinded conscience and that men of all Religions may live without molestation one from another any more then by meer manifestations of their light one to another at seasonable times in wayes of query disputation and preaching and then to leave all men to worship God according to their several wayes even misbelievers Hereticks and Iewes themselves and others that yet believe not in Christ but deny him till the Lord lend them light by the word of truth and to stand or fall to their own master Christ Jesus to whom every conscience shall give account of it self at last who if any man hear his words and believe not nor receives but rejects them judges him not here either by himself or the civil magistrate or by his Church any further then to non-communion with them yet by the word that he hath spoken unto him will judge every man at the last day Thus it is most evident the magistrate whether Christian or Heathen is to do and not otherwise viz. to give protection to men as men living honestly soberly and justly without respect to their Religions whether true or false And as to Religions to allow Tolleration to all men to practise according to their principles the practise of whose principles is not directly destructive to the true Religion common honesty civillity morallity righteousnesse and the peace and safety of the Common-wealth as some mens principles are if put in practise yet verily I know none among Christians at least save those of the two Spiritualties vix the Rantizing PPPriest that in his precincts which is the whole world could he catch it would have no tolleratian for any way of worship but his own and the Ranting Prophet who would have toleration of all and more too not onely all Religions but all as well unciuill unnatural lewd abominable as irreligious actions which nature it self cries shame on among beasts magistracy finds it self an ordinance of God to give correction to among heathens for those men are now acting upon the stage of whom Iude speaks when he saies Iude 10. what they know naturally as bruit beasts in those things they corrupt themselves the principles of that old PPPriest and this new Prophet if practised in the hight of them are utterly inconsistent with the standing of truth in the world untrampled viz. that of the Priest and also with the standing of very manhood among men of civility in civil states of the common-health of the Common-wealth it self viz. that of the Prophet the one is so far from owning any power to be a terror to evil works and incouragement to good that despising all Government and speaking evill of dignities he holds that there is at all neither good nor evil nor better nor worse amongst works but all alike and then good Lord how fast must iniquity dishonesty unrighteousnesse and incontinency thrive and abound upon earth to the ripening of 〈◊〉 for the sickle when it shall be acted with allowance from such a principle as this viz. that there is now no iniquity at all this man would have the civil power allow all Religions and good Manners too but allowes of none at least thinks he needs use none himself and is for a Toleration of all truth in the world though all truth is the intollerablest thing in the world to him and though it hath leave from him to grow besides him and will too among some yet he hopes to loosen it by lending it so much scope
dayes and were not by him persecuted nor constrained either to be of his Religion nor to say nothing against it nor against any other in after times indeed when the Emperours grew bloody against the Christians all Religions lived quietly under Caesar but the Christian that was worse then nought and I think it not a little too bad and not doing as our duty is to all men as we desire they should do to us but the way back to Priestly blindnes if we put Caesar on now because he is a Christian to let the Christian Religion live quietly under him and none else for my part I dare not desire that the Jews may not not onely live but till they see better serve God in their wayes of worship in the State as well as others for a being they must have somewhere and may no where without sin if not here for is it more sin for one Common-wealth to let false worshippers live in it till they see the truth then for another yea and let them and others too preach and promulgate even all that ere they can for their way Ob. I know men fear false Religions will seduce men from the true to themselves An. Let them gain what they can whom can they gain not the elect which in your sense are a sort of individuals without respect to any thing done in time personally unchangeably positively and not conditionally determined to faith and final perseverance in it to the death and if they seduce others to damnation it self they are no other then such with you as are as particularly peremptorily and not conditionally onely of their loving darkness more then light afore of old ordained to that condemnation therfore me thinks you of that principle of all others should see no danger of doing more hurt then God decreed to have done by suffering seducers in the world before the foundation of it and as for us who hold no such though as much election and reprobation as your selves in that sense in which the Scripture speaks oâ—t which bids us know that God hath chosen the godly man to himself and ordained ungodly men to condemnation not determining the individuals to life or death before birth but upon account of belief or non-belief of the truth that 's told them for he hath chosen men to life no otherwise then through belief and ordained men to be holy i. e. that they shall believe and live holily that mean to live for ever even we that know there is danger enough and yet hope enough too of life for men that neglect not their own salvation â—are venture truth among all false wayes whatsoever which when and where ere it lives uncurbd as it never yet did in England without molestation more or lesse to these our dayes for a 1000 years and upwards will shine through all the rest so clearly to mens souls as either to save them or else at least to convince them so as if they perish by following any false wayes that grow up by it to leave them without excuse because they either did know and did not what they knew or might have known more then they did but would not besides if any religion be as I am sure the true one is not though the RRRomish Jewish Turkish and all others are such a dead Sea of Divinity as hath not life enough in it to live of it self if it may have bare leave unlesse all others that would live beside it be sneapt by the civil sword so that they must not shew their heads by it for its sake let that Religion be the Jews and the Turks and the Popes and the Prelates and the Presbyters and the Independents too if it will for me but while I live to Christ surely t will be none of mine So I have done with you my dear friends of the Independent way and shall wait and pray that you may first laying as your foundation then leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ go on unto perfection T is time to return to talk on with the Pope and PPPriesthood to whom I have almost forgotten what more I was about to say being put by it by ones presentment of these proposals to me inter scribendum which draw'd me on to this long Perenthesis and off from my present purpose viz. the proving of the PPPriesthood to be that themselves which they most falsely father upon them whom they as falsely call Anabaptists I have shewed how though they call us an impure and carnal sect a cruel and bloody sect yet themselves are both these much more then we yea and much more that 's nought then either of these two also For next whereas you stile us a prophane and Sacriledgious sect yet that you are a more Profane and Sacrilegious generation then those whom Dr. Featly calls so will appear very plainly if you consider either what Sacriledge and Profaneness are indeed or what Dr. Featley if he may be your spoksman to whom you refer us doth falsey suppose it hath defined it to be for he states profaneness or sacriledge for these two with him are one to be the extream in the defect to Religion to which the extream in the excess saith he is superstition which is the offering to God what he claimes not for his own whilst the other i. e. profaneness Sacrilegiously Robs God of that which is his own in a particular manner which if so then you CCClergy men are more guilty in this behalf then any other under the Sun for besides that you erre from the true religion in the excesse by superstitious attribution of such things to God as his by institution which are not his but your own inventions viz. payment of Tithes to you infant-sprinkling and many other which you plead for as if the Lord had required them Iure divino or Iure Apostolico whereas it is no false Latine because true English to say they stand Iure humano et Apostatico or rather Daemonito by the devil and the whores appointment you erre from it also in the defect by Sacrilegious ablation and abolition of the true Baptism and Ordinances from the Church which Christ hath appointed this though it be wonderful strange yet is marvellous true for though ordinary men miscarry from the mean but by one extream ordinarily e. g. if men erre from the vertue liberality by prodigality they are not covetous too or if by covetousness they are not prodigal too but so extraordinarily out of holy order are you O ye that are in holy orders that you content not your selves to go beyond the word but you 'l be behind it too you will make God own that he never commanded neither to use the phrase and figure in which he speaks of himself came it all into his mind and disown his own precepts which you make void by your traditions T is bad to be in the extream on either hand from the truth but to be in
be supreme and overcome so the lord let him for a time that he might manifest his own power the more in the overcomming him for ever in the end yea power was given him to make war by the beast that bears him even all nations of Christendom which he overcame first against the Saints and to overcome them also and so to be filled with his own inventions he gives out when any disputes against him that his desire is to be satisfyed by disputing and so perhaps he would but t is with riches more then rightousnesse with tith more then truth for in truth he seemes if he must meet with such as charge him with error in his doctrine of baptism tith forced maintenance forcing conscience as if he would renounce his opinions and practises in these points if any can prove them to be corrupt but seeks onely opportunities to spread his odd opinions of what schism and sacriledge and robbing of God it is if submission be not acted and tithes be not offered to him among the vulgar among whom his Ghostly pretences produce a kind of aweful affrightment and dread of doing any thing against what he saies being resolved before hand never to be convinced of the truth as t is in the word for that overturns him in all his preferment projects and plucks him up from all the profits of his present princely posture which is such a right eye to him that he hath not faith enough to believe that it can possibly be more profitable to him to part with though Christ himself till him tis then to preserve and perish with it His disciples are for the most part not such as the noble Beraeans that would take nothing upon trust from the very Apostles mouths but searched the Scripture dayly whether the things were so or no not onely men but honourable women too not a few but rather meet idle implicit forefather faitht men simple and weak women who try nothing but keep their Church and believe as their Church believes and as their good churchman saies led away with diverse lusts and pleasures leaning onely on their Priests understandings pinning all their Religion upon their sleeves adoring all that their Orthodox divines deliver at a venture ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth as t is in the word whose honest ignorant devotions he hath won to himself by his cunning artifice of pretended piety voluntary humility seeming zeal to the truth long prayers or rather multitudes of short prayers and praises Pater Nosters Miserere Mei's Magnificats Te deums Gloria Patri's per Iesum Christum Dominum nostrums and such like devoutries and being once gained are so carried on with the streme of corrupt custome present fashion foolish affection that no reason in the world can reclaim them he deterreth lay people as much as may be from reading expounding or too much prying into the Scripture alledging unto them the perils they may incur by misinterpretations he hath laid his foundations so firmly in the dark consciences of men women by perswading them of his own infallibity Ecclesiastical Authority his Ius Divinum in the Government and guidance of the Church as here in Britain and even of his Temporal jurisdiction too as at Rome over both heaven and earth hell and purgatory of his power in the agony of mens souls to forgive sin that men and women are becharmed into beleif of him he hath woven himself so far into their credulity that all his sayings are received as oracles all his doings as divine all his traditions as truth it self all his Administrations as Apostolical all his doctrines as Orthodox all his Arguments though confessed by himself to be weak as unanswerable and all others Administrations Actions Answers Arguments though never so consentaneous to the true sense of Scripture valued at that price which he sets upon them as if the holy chaire of Papall determination Episcopal Convention Synodical constitution could not possibly be mistaken yea the Scripture it self is but a nose of wax with him of what shape soever the CCClergy casts it into of no more authority then Aesops Fables with the Papists if the Pope say the word so as to disdate digrade it or put any part of it out of commission of no other sense then the Bishops and Synod seem to say is the sense on 't with their good Protestants so altogether Oraculous is the Pope among his the Bishop among his the Presbyter among his and even all the three several CCClergies among their three several sorts of CCCreatures that their different ipse dixits are ipso facto divine directory and discharge enough too for these different doters on them insanire cum ratione to dote to and fro by Authority so as to do and undo and do and undo and do by In a word he is too bold to be born down not so much from such things as make the righteous witnesses to truth as bold as Lions before God and men viz. the goodnesse of his cause for that is stark naughâ— and rotten nor the clearnes of his call either to his Clerical function or any actions he goes about by vertue and in persuance thereof for t is clear enough that his orders emission commission as to the external etymology of them are more from the Pope then Christ and the true Church nor any good answer of a good conscience for either his conscience is so cloudy that he cannot or so cowardly that he dares not or so resolved that he will not see or else so clear that he is condemned of himself when truth shines plainly upon his face but rather from either his great interest in or directive authority over the civil power that hath long back as well as bellyed him as in England or his having it all in his own hands and dispose as at Rome where ecce duo gladii both swords are in the Clergyes clutches so that he can quickly correct those that contradict him he is too clamorous to be silenced calling out with such a heavy noise and divine ditty against the truth and condemning it with such an outcry of Schism Schism Sedition blasphemy Heresie Heresie before he hath half heard it and so soon as ever its opening its mouths to speak that all the parish pulpits in a whole Countrey and now and then their steeples ring out in such combustion to the tune of Great is Diana of the Ephesians Act. 19 28.34 that truth hath no way wherby to silence him but to be silent her self for when she begins to declare he with his Heresie Heresie soon stops men ears he is too arrogant to be convinced he hath controuled whole nations cut of the spirit of Princes bin terrible to the kings of the Earth and devinced invincible Emperors in his time therefore may well scorn to be convinced abominate detest disdain to be directed by Russet Rabbies Apron Levites Ministerian Mechanicks illiterate Artizans
stick and into whose hearts they have eaten fowl healthless holes already and to drive them deeper even with hammer and nailes if they can tell how or else to cleave whole Countries asunder with beetle and wedges Heresie is said by the Apostle to fret like a canker so that it is not the clearness nor yet the coolness nor yet the heat of a disputation can correct it in some mens hearts the tongue may heal any poisoned wound with licking of it sooner then that which the Heretick the Pope and the Priesthood hath made so deeply hath he found his heresies in the dark cells of some mens implicit consciences Athanasius his disputation with Arrius and Austins with Manickaeus are sufficient Instances Indeed it is not possible to expect any good fruit from those former grounds as to the CCClergie themselves and such of their CCCreatures as stand bent to believe all they say and never doubt it though otherwise much good may come to others that are inquisitive by disputation with them or that he which is possessed with self love and hunts so greedily after glory or gain as the CCClergie dots should be perswaded to hearken to any reason which contradicts his principles or to disclaim that waie which must advance his design What is the result of this discourse to forbid all disputation with HHHim no by no means it is necessary to stop the clamors of the adversarie to the truth who will cry out victoria if his challenge be not answered and make our sâ—leuâ—e be a confession of the truth on his side if he be not stoutly encountred with Saint Austin who was in his time called Malleus hereticorum of whom it is said that he never went so willingly to a feast as to a conference when Pascentins the Arrian bragd that he had worsted him in his dispute and those believed it which desired it yet gave not out from disputing but was onely careful to set down his disputations in writing for the future that the truth might appear vindicated from those false reports with which commonly it is blasted either by word or else by some such true counterfeit Accounts in print as that which is at this day extant of the disputation held at Ashford A Disputation orderly carried soberly proceeded with without heats and distempered passions not suffered to go out of its due bounds nor to follow every new sent that is taken up by the way nor to degenerate into quarrellings and hasty fals chargings of the Anabaptists as this and that they know not what without proving them such or disproving their doctrines as if others do not I do know more then one place where and where more then once too it hath been so will contribute much to the clearing of truth the begetting of doubts in them that yet never doubted but blindly believed the contrary The removing of doubts in them that are already in doubts about it and putting it out of all doubt to them all in the end that all is not so well yet as it ought to be with the very reforming Clergy and that their parochial posture is popish and their constitution ordination administrations baptism and the supper is all disorderly and out of joint to the confirming of the strong that stand fast in the true faith the recovery of the laps't world that hath departed from the faith Gospel Baptism Church order which was once delivered to the Saints and been seduced from Christ by the Scholastical incroachments of the CCClergy and as it may chance in time if the civil powers that have preferred them would come once to favour the truth the convincing â—he SSSeducer it is rare so to mannage one among an unskilful multitude where the auditors take themselves no lesse engaged then their champions and will be ready on all hands too much but an 100 fold more for ought I find among the parochial party then the other disorderly to break the lists which hath made so many able Scholars not in mans onely but in Christs School also almost averse from undertaking it but unless their be sufficient caution against such exorvitatances as jangling with bells to drownd all audience of truth and counter speeches of non-sense rather then nothing to interrupt him that is about to speak the truth and noise of shouting if it were possible to shame the truth and such like geer as I have met with in my daies better be no disputation at all nor preaching of truth among such it being if not a giving of that which is holy to dogs and casting of pearles before swine which will turn again and rent you yet at least impossible any thing should come of it that good is and yet even that shall be no hurt to the Ministers of Christ that are approved in tumults yet cannot help it but blasphemy to the truth stumbling to the weak parishioners that stumble enough already poor souls the Lord help them to see their preachers violently oppose preaching and proving the truth out of the Scriptures a kind of shamefull Glory to the adversaries of the truth the PPPriesthood from some a glorious shame to the undertakers for it There is therefore a better way for the true Pastors of the true Churches and specially the Churches messengers to the world in which to oppose the approach of heresies which the parish Pastors make mickle use of to oppose the truth by under the names of Anabaptism at least in their Respective flocks and that is by preaching To argue substantially against them to convince them soundly is the best in the pulpit if they can freely get in a place wherein one might have hid ones self for a month together or more and sometimes a year from some parish Priests non-resident Parsons divinity Doctors but specially the lazy Lord Bishops not very long since but now to keep out the Anabaptists more frequented by some Priests then else it would be a place which is secured much and yet not alwayes neither when plain truth tellers are in it from those incursions to which disputations are subject It is worth observation that neither Transubstantion nor consubstantion have so much as appeared in these days wherin so many old Heresies as infant sprinkling for one which as a mad bul having its deaths blow on the forehead struggles more then ever are in a sort revived and stickled for and plyed with new and fresh assaults and unheard of arguments for t was pleaded for but as a tradition mostly in times above us as well as new ones broached And the reason is because all Ministers in these parts good and bad true false even the Priests themselves in their Sermons provided for the sacrament have every where oppugned them as having indeed no cleer colour in them of either Scripture common sense or reason as neither hath infant sprinkling if the National Ministers would once wisely consider it The learned Hooker observes that in Poland so
bearers onely and doers of all that you know and not some things onely as some do and patient both hearers and doers of what God and not what man saies Temptation hardly prevails against that soul that is built upon the practise of Gods commandements but as is shewed above and exemplifyed in the parish people that are so built and no otherwise and whose fear toward God is taught after the precepts of men the soul that is built on the practise of mens commandements in his religion faith worship is easily prevailed with to be of any Religion the State pleases as well a false as a true as well Popish as Episcopall or Presbyteriall 4. To beware of the ordinary converse and needlesse society of these Schismatical Seducers the PPPriests that have drawn the whole world into a deep dotage after themselves and desperate departure from the plain doctrine of the primitive Churches and Apostles not to frequent groundlessely their popish parochial Antichristian Assemblies that say they are Jewes i. e. the Churches of Christ and are not but do ly and are the Synagogue of Satan and if any of the disciples or others think themselves strong enough to encounter with them or if they be so indeed yet to take heed of being foiled and spoiled throw their philosophy and vain deceit after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ 2 Col. 8. and however of offending weak ones by their example The Arguments of some nay of all these HHHierarchian Hereticks have not prevailed half so much to the perverting of the saith of so many millions of men and women as in all ages of their reign have been perverted from the truth as it is in Jesus as the examples of some shall I say nay of wellny all the Great ones in all nations the gentry the mighty the wise the noble not many of which can submit to own the Carpenters son in the homely ordinances mean waies foolish and base things he hath chosen 1 Cor. 1. yea the Kings of the earth that falling into folly and committing fornication with this cunning women the CCClergy were besotted to sacrifice all their Crowns and the wealth and power and strength of their whole kingdomes to her will and to set up her waies Rev. 17.2.17 Who perhaps onely for noveltie or curiosity at first but at last after some few ages and generations out of principles of foolish custome and pretended antiquity have been present themselves and not by their own example onely but extremity of Lawes and Statutes which the Saints onely in each age have smarted for the breach of enforced others to be present at their will worships superstitious services extravagant dispensations and erroneous exercises and yet the bare example of great ones in a false faith without other enforcement is inforcement great enough amongst Parochiallists and the carnal commonalty who commonly live and believe much more by example then sound reason the faith of he Rulers right or wrong is usually the rule of their faith and Rex sum such a convincing reason with them as seldome receives other reply then nil ultra quaero plebeius 5. Not to be too rash to believe every Spirit nor to receive any more implicitly the spirit of the spiritualty the PPPriesthood no though it come â—n never so ghostly shapes and gorgeous pretences of piety humility zeal prayers tears c. for she is a mystery and this is the very mystery of the Whores iniquity that she hides all her guile with a godly garb In nomine domine incipit omne malum saith the old Proverb and I wish that in homine domini occidat omne malum may be a new one if it prove a true one i. e. that in thy fall O man of God there may be an end of all mischief yet surely a worse mischief to the true Church sharp and short will arise out of thy ashes yet before the end false prophets muâ—â— come in the name of the Lord as well as true ones How gloriously did Balaam profess As Austin saith of Pelagius whose doctrine he counted devillish that his life was like a Saints so I say the Sancti Sanctorum of all Christendome in pretence have been in doctrine the veryest devils Alexander of â—ales writes say some of Bonaventure that Adam did not sin in him and yet of all the Papists none leâ—t more blasphemy behind him the Crocodile weeps till he hath got his prey the Priesthood won the world to it self with the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and then set up the trade of being Lords and Lawgivers themselves and rooted out his from off the earth 6. having once found out and fallen into fellowship with the true Church that is rightly constituted upon the true foundation of the Prophets and Apostles or principles of the doctrine of Christ to be stedfast and unmoveable in the way of truth not suffering themselves to be swayed aside in any wise by any deep devises or perverse pretences Satan of whatsoever and in order to their standing to avoid a weak and querrulous conscience misliking finding fault complaining taking offence at every thing where there is no cause streining at a gnat giving over the company of the flock for every â—ub forsaking the assembling of themselves together as the manner of some is seperating from the Congregation not so much for a ceremony as through a crooked and carnal conceit that t is but a meer ceremony to assemble and meet or meddle with any outward ordinances at all a matter in force onely for that small moment of the primitive age of the Gospel and now of no moment to us weak worships low things carnal ordinances unprofitable dispensations empty elements bodily exercises beggerly rudiments c. like bruit beasts depraving the precious precepts of Christ even those holy matters of his which they understand not the weight and worth of these and such like have made such as of old Jude speaks of and we see so doing at this very day to depart and seperate themselves from Saintship to sensuality from Church-fellowship in the faith to fellowship in filthynesse thus the Seeker seeks to subvert himself and others and all that holy law of Christs own giving as foolishnesse to overturn all that is of Christ whilest Christ is overturning all that is of man he scruples every thing till he is satisfyed to own just nothing as if because there is some waies of error therefore there can be no way of truth he is weak in the faith believing nothing to be good till he believes every thing to be so and nothing to be bad or naught at all And wheresoever his weaknesse is at first it thrives into wickednesse at last so that how ere he seems modest against the truth a while yet after there will be raâ—â— censures arrogant and bold speeches and Iudgements condemning or at least contemning both of good persons and holy things Thus this man runs up to ranting
a number of ignorant Mass Priests Monks and Friats who blind guids as they were of the blinder people fell with them into the ditch of Superstition Heresie and Sensuallity and say I the English Antichrist i. e. the Arch-bishop of Canterbury a chip of the old block that was an Apprentice at Rome in old'n time till he set up for himself here and became indeed what the old Caiaphas Pope Urbane the second prophesied of him in a complement about 1099 little thinking then God wot that he would serve him such a trick as to set up his posts against his posts and take away his custome and trading here in England Papatus alterius Orbis this English Antichrist I say hath multiplyed many teachers and feeders that are far better â—ed then taught in matters of either God or man and as few Scholars as are among the true Churches if there were none the truth would stand without them and God delights in no mans legs but if there were need of that to the making ministers of the Gospel there is proportionably fewer among your churches considering how little Christs flocks is and how voluminous the fold of the WWWhore and how few truly are so that go under that name among the people with whom hand tam cultus quam cucullus facit monachum for though you talk of secular learning yet if that were so necessary to a Minister as the Ministry say it is it would not onely cut off Peter and Iohn from that denomination who were though better gifted yet lesse learned in that sense then the least of you but most of you CCClergy also among whom throughout your whole dominion of Christndome there 's few Country Curates are well studied Scholars indeed in Logick and other arts and sciences and as for the tongues and original languages of the Scriture I speak it to the shame of the Ministry who unminister themselves in saying it is so necessary there is scarce five of 20. know the originall in the old Testament and not twenty to 5 so well as you should do in the new and as for the onely true learning and original of all wisdom the fear of God growth in grace and the knowledge of Christ and misteries of his kingdom and the spirit that Christ promised to his people to teach them all things which it were better for you by all your learning that you had more of unlearned Peter himself may truly tearm the most of you such unlearned ones as wrest the Scripture to your own destruction Act. 4.13 2 Pet. 3.16 yea so ungifted are the most of you so much as to pray and then well may you be to preach and that is to be unlearned as to the ministers office that unlettered or at least unspirited Artificers may be the proper name of some Clergy men as well as of the teaching tradesmen Dr. Featly speaks of for these receive the holy spirit that gifts them to it but not many of the Clergy are gifted to pray extempore without book if I onely said this you would not believe me but sith your great Patron Dr. Featly to whom you send us is my Patron as to this you must believe it whether you will or no unlesse you would have us believe him whom you will not believe yovr selves who gives this good reason p. 95. why its necessary to have set formes for the Ministers of the church of England to pray by if they pray at all in publique for there is not one Minister saith he or Curate of an 100 specially in Country Villages or Parochial churches who hath any tolerable gift of conceived as they term them or extempore prayers which if so you have smal reason to cry out of others as illiterate yea verily your selves will appear to be as the Anabaptists are stil'd by you an illiterate and Sottish generation in things principally pertaining to Christ and to Ministers of Christ to be skil'd in for that indeed is to be truly learn'd or unlearn'd in quoquo genere viz. to be raw or ready either in that which men supremely pretend to excell in as the Divine doth to excell other men in the things of God or else in that which is most excellent in it self and most worthy ouâ— being learn'd in as the highest and most excellent objects that are knowable being Christ and the mysteries of his kingdome those consequently are the best Scholars in the world that are most deeply insighted thereinto though elsewise never so ignorant Si Christum nescis nihil est si caetera noscis Si Christum noscis nihil est si caetera nescis Now count which of these two waies you will the greatest Clerks will appear to be the greatest Novices the greatest Doctors the greatest Dunces the greatest Schoolmen the least Schollars the prime of the Priesthood the prime Ignoramus's that the Christian earth doth carry for howbeit O yee PPPrists some of you for the most of you will never be mad with much learning even surfeit on inferiour literature viz. arts tongues c. and are taller then other men by the head in the reading of History Oratory pieces of pibald Poetry and such like yet as to the misterious plain Gospel wherein are hid and whence are handed out unto us the treasures of eternity in earthen vessels i. e. the homely base foolish weak wayes and dispensations which are of Christs chusing which it concerns Christs Ministers of all men to be more clear in then in any thing else they are low and therefore too high and wonderful for you high studied men to reach to they are far about out of your sight Yea I thank thee O father Lord of heaven and earth that thou hidest these things because seeing they will not see them from the wise and prudent and revealest them unto babes yea O Lord how great is the multitude of meer Humanists that feed onely upon the common Theory of that Theology they have framed to themselves and relish nothing but what is of man how are thy depths even thy downright deliveries of soul saving truth in plainess of speech by the mouths of stammerers stark duncery to them how will not a poor marred mocked misreputed Saviour and gospel in any wise down with them who did of old and who do still stand out most stiffly against thy gospel O Christ but the proud self conceited Pharisees Priests and Lawyers who while the people believe and justifie God being baptized with the true baptism do generally reject the councel of God against themselves being not baptized therewith where had thy message by the mouth of Paul lesse acceptance then at the university of Athens where hath the word now lesse then in the Academies Christian Academies seemingly reforming Academies where if thou didst not tell us that Christ crucified should be foolishnesse to the wise men after the flesh and disputers of this world who could believe that the Princes of Zoan should be such fools
such idiots as they are in the matters of thy Kingdom where doth thy truth meet with more difficult entrance more course entertainment more malitious accusatious more captious questions secret underminings open oppositions then among the CCChristian Ministry which therefore is not thine but Antichristian because it is both for thee and against thee yea who so blind as those that seem to themselves to be the onely Seers both for themselves and others ever seeking to thee for thy spirit yet ever resisting thy holy spirit speaking to them out of the mouths of babes as a very babler ever teaching yet never learning which be the first principles of thy doctrine ever serving thee yet ever thinking they do thee service when they affront thy servants O Lord let as many of them as do it ignorantly obtain thy mercy if it be thy will and let thy truth shine into their souls that they may be saved as for such as are more malevolently disposed if it may not be otherwise but that the main body of the CCClergy shall evermore be adversaries to thee and thy Clergy Amen sobeit And now have shewed the Reasons why God suffers Hereticks and hath suffered the Arch-heretick and Schismatick and mother of Abominations of all Christndom i. e. the CCClergy that have been Wolves rather then Pastors to Christs sheep the last of which reasons was this to provoke the true Pastors to diligence and watchfulnesse to prove them whether they be hirelings or not such as will flee when the wolf comes or lay down their lives for the sheep and having discovered whom I mean by Pastors viz. not the Priests but those of the truly gathered and constituted churches that have separated themselves from the Priest and his parish popish posture I proceed yet a little further For This last Reason administers the matter of this ensuing discourse concerning the wayes how Pastors of right constituted Churches such as those of the Baptists onely are should oppose or rather should have opposed the coming in of these wolves the CCClergy for the Pastors of old through their negligence did suffer them to come in and drive them out being entered What the Magistrates duty is in this case it presumes not to set down here partly because the Magistrates duty is discovered and discourst on above and partly because it presumes the Magistrate will be wise enough in this age to know what he is to do towards the freeing of himself from that infinit care and cumber that hath crusht him in former dayes by the CCClergies constant clacking to him to correct Hereticks Schismaticks and Sectaries and crying out to him to lend them his helping hand and the edge of his civil sword about Church-work yea and if God who did once put it into the hearts of the Kingdomes of the earth to fulfill his will and to agree and with one mind to give their power strength and Kingdom unto the beast and to serve the whore that rode them Rev. 17.13.17 and as ten horns to toss the Saints at her will will now put it into the minds of these ten horns even all the Kingdoms of Christndom to hate the whore and make her desolate and naked and eat her flesh and strip her of all her tith and spiritual glory revenue dignity and burn her with fire and in their rage to ruin great BBBabilon the City that in three PPParts or PPProud PPPriesthoods hath reigned over them as I believe he will Rev. 16.19 17.16.18 throughout as I can neither much help or hinder it so I find no warrant to cry Alas Alas for it as the Kings and Merchants that come down with her shall do but rather Allelujah with all the people Rev. 18.9.11.16.19.1.2.3 c. There are two publique wayes for private are suffering fastings and prayers and teares c. matters wherewith the CCClergy for the most part of them never yet kild themselves nor approved themselves yet as the Ministers of Christ by as his true Ministers did of old which have been practised by Pastors in those primitive dayes viz. Disputing Preaching concerning both which this discourse intends onely a short survey leaving the proceedings in them to their judgements whom God hath made faithful Disputation say our Ashford Disputants hath ever been decried by most iudicious and grave men Tertullian is bitter say they against it Perdes in contentione vocem nihil consequeris nisi vilem de blasphematione landem and I say so too a man may very easily wrangle ad ravim dispute himself hoarse and lose his tongue in contention and get nothing but a base repute of blasphemation specially when as t was at Ashford and somewhere else within a mile of an oak the contention is so sharp that there 's not onely six tongues to one or two talking for it tuning altogether against the truth but six bells balling out also to bear it down with And another magni res est periculi veterem fidem quasi novellam otiosa disputatione discutere and so indeed it is a matter of great disadvantage idlely to dispute the old faith as if it were some new one whereupon that truth may receive detriment by us in nothing henceforward we do all men to wit that howbeit the CCClergy and their creatures claim antiquity to be on their sides still both in the point of baptism and other differences between them and the men call'd Anabaptists and delude their people into a blind misbelief that all that truth which now comes to light is to be taken for granted to be heresie before hand new faith new wayes a new Gospel and this they do more easily and effectually by how much t is true that the fog of their errors hath been so thick that men can find but little of that which now shines forth in the dayes of our more immediate forefathers though there were many righteous men no question then disiring to see and hear what we now do and could not howbeit I say they have prepostest people thus yet in order to the dispossessing of them of that praejudication by reason whereof the primitive truth which however God winktwhile it was a time of ignorance must now it comes to light again be received in the love therof that they may be saved and in the rejection of which they will be damned 2 Thes. 2. gets little entertainment into their hearts I here proclaim it again to all people upon earth as that truth which as I have shewed above God will shew the Clergy once to their shame that the baptizing or dipping believing men and women in that way wherein we do it is no new faith practise nor baptism but that one only true baptism which was instituted by Christ and used in the primitive times of the Gospel and that their sprinkling infants is a meer trifle a toy a new trick and tradition of the church in its beginning to degenerate into darknesse and superstition and also that t is