Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n
Text snippets containing the quad
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A83012
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The confident questionist questioned: or, the examination of the doctrine delivered by Mr. Thomas Willes in certain queries. Published by Mr. Jeremiah Ives. Examined by counter-queries. By N.E. with a letter of Mr. Tho. Willes.
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N. E.
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1658
(1658)
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Wing E18; Thomason E934_3; ESTC R207678
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33,986
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58
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there was no such Necessity then must he needs acknowledge the Popish Bishops to have power of Ordination for as much as there was no other Ministers to ordain and from them they had received Ordination So that which way soever hee should turn their Call would appear to bee clear and certain Neither could the opinion of the Receivers null or annihilate the truth of their Call which could not depend upon their opinion but must needs consist in the conformity of their Ordination as to the substance of it to the primitive Institution or the necessity of the susception of the work of the Ministry as in an extraordinary case without Ordination But hee refusing either to receive satisfaction from or to make any direct Reply unto this fair Proposal manifested his intents by offering an open opposition to both in a publick Dispute if hee might bee admitted thereunto notwithstanding his Concession of both principles and thereby manifested his desire of contention rather than love of Truth and Peace the great Interests of all good Christians and upon this account his offer was and I conceive most justly rejected For my part I know no ground wee have in the Gospel to admit the enemies of the Truth and open opposites to the Gospel-Ministry as are the Sect of the Anabaptists publickly to dispute in Christian Assemblies against our Doctrine and Ministry which wee hold forth in concurrence with the universal Christian Church from the Word and Gospel Though I do beleeve there may bee a sufficient ground for dispute against the enemies of the Truth and true Religion when the Gospel cannot well by other means get footing or it may bee conducible for the further propagation of it amongst such as have not embraced it What ground there may bee for some particular dispute upon some special occasion with special Cautions and Rules to regulate it I shall not here define but only say such things are to bee ordered by Prudence according to the general Rules of the holy Scripture Thus as to that which you last desired I have I hope in the first place given you some satisfaction Only this I le adde that I received from him and some of those that were with him what I told them I expected from them from some words they spake unto that purpose even an unchristian-like abuse in slanderous and reproachful reports that I could not make good my Calling to the Ministry nor maintain in private what I had delivered in publick But besides the Testimony of persons of credit that were then present I hope I shall bee able through divine Assistance to evidence that I can make good the doctrine I have delivered Now as for your other Questions I shall answer them in order 1 As for what I spake concerning the baptizing of the children of wicked Parents I spake only as might plainly appear to them that heard mee of such as being under the outward Administration of the Covenant of Grace were to bee accounted Members of the Visible Church till juridically ejected by excommunication And I see no reason why the children of such Parents may not bee baptized under the Gospel as well as the children of the wicked Jews were to bee circumcized under the Law When God in the times of the Gospel doth more largely extend the grace of the Covenant what ground have we to abridge any of any such Ordinance whereby that grace may bee communicated And do not wee often see that God passes by the children of good and godly Parents and chuses the children of those that are evil and wicked And if it bee the outward subjection unto the external Administration of the Covenant of grace in the Parents that gives children right to this outward priviledge of Baptisme why are not the children of wicked Parents living under this outward Administration to bee admitted to Baptisme of equal right with the children of those that are truly godly and religious Now it must needs bee the Parents outward profession of the true Religion or submission to the Administration of the Covenant of grace or the inward possession of the grace of the Covenant that must give them right for their children to Baptisme The latter it cannot bee viz. the inward possession of the grace of the Covenant because this falls not under mans cognizance but now visible Administration requires some visible Evidence of the parties interest in or right to that Ordinance which is to bee visibly administred And therefore the latter it must needs bee viz. an outward profession of the true Religion an outward submission to the Administration of the Covenant of grace And therefore the children of wicked Parents being members of the Visible Church and so having a true right in Foro Ecclesiae to the Sacrament of Baptisme ought as well to bee baptized as the children of Parents are to repeat the very words as I delivered them in publick the more need there is that their children should bee solemnly engaged to God I judge it very necessary that a solemn obligation to the duties of Christianity should by Baptisme bee laid upon them But I see not why Mr. Ives should enter his exception against the baptizing of the children of wicked Parents as such unless hee sought to colour his opinion which hath ever been exploded in the Christian Church when it is well known hee is against the baptizing of any children at all 2 As for what I spake of the fifth Monarchy-men I mean that generation which in these daies is called by that name take my very words at large which were but briefly rehearsed in the Sermon excepted against for the correction of a mistake under which they were censured take them thus some there are that do openly decry the Ministry their Call Maintenance and Administrations as Anti-Evangelical and Antichristian Such are these foul-mouthed Sectaries Seducers and Hereticks Quakers Anabaptists and Fifth-Monarchy-men whose breath is the very smoake of the bottomless Pit smelling strong of the Brimstone of Hell This I spake in allusion to that whereby such like Errors Heresies and Blasphemies as are vented now adays by men of these Sects are prophetically represented Rev. 9.2 3. as some do interpret it If there are not some of all these Sects as bad as I have represented them I confess I am under a great mistake and I could heartily wish it was but onely my errour 3 And as for that charge that I should tell any Gentleman that I was informed that Mr. Ives was a Jesuite and should stirre him up upon that account to apprehend him I must needs reckon it amongst those slanders and reproaches that have been most injuriously raised against mee For though I suppose you are not ignorant that Mr. Ives is openly and commonly reported to bee a Jesuite though upon what grounds I know not whether because of his erroneous principles and extravagant Practices in his intrusion into the Office and yet opposing the Call of
example to a Beleever in charity 1 Tim. 4.12 I query then whether back-biting tale-bearing and taking up a reproach against your Neighbour be not contrary to the Law of Charity and whether you were not guilty of this when you told a Gentleman that lives at High-gate who is ready to witnesse the truth hereof That you were enformed I was a Jesuite and therefore told him he would doe well to apprehend me Truly Sir if you doe not tell me who informed you I shall say it was a slander of your owne devising either thereby to take away my life for that is the punishment the Law hath provided for Jesuites by the Stat. of Eliz. 27.2 or else if that Gentlemn would have been ruled by you that I might have been laid in Goal right or wrong to the undoing of my self and Family till I could have cleared my self of the supposed Crime in open Sessions This must needs bee your design otherwise why did you encourage him to apprehend me as a Jesuite but more of this in a more convenient place where I doubt not of reparation only let me tell you That if you could as easily prove the Affirmative viz. That you are sent of God to preach and that all you preach is true as I can prove the Negative that I am no Jesuite the controversie between us would soon be ended Counter-Query Do you not see by Mr. Willes his Letter how much you are to blame thus in Print to take up a reproach against him and that upon the bare information of such a single person did hee ever assert you to be a Jesuite At the most hee only said you were suspected and this hee spake in private And indeed who would not suspect that man to be Jesuitical who was cryed out on to be such to his face in a great Congregation at Clements beyond Temple-Bar that hath the vox populi to accuse him of it That is reported to have converse with Jesuites that liv'd a conceal'd I had almost said a suspected life for some years together in and about London that hath Jesuitical opinions and designs especially to pluck down the Ministry of England or to make it odious That these grounds of suspition may be had concerning you I shall not assert but only wish that we had no more ground to suspect you to be Jesuitical then Mr. Willes to be uncharitable in accusing you or erroneous in what is here controverted and I make no question but you would in your next subscribe your self a friend to Mr. Willes and this Truth in some measure vindicated Confess the Truth and glorifie God Amen Reader there are faults in the printing which are not much material only correct p. 31. l. 4. read with for as POST-SCRIPT REader I thought it necessary to advertise thee of a few things 1 That to mee it is a great sign that that is a Truth and a Truth of great concernment which when it is asserted or taught men of corrupt minds are enraged at and oppose They would have the Servants sleep that being their time of sowing Tares therefore it is very observeable that when ever godliness was most likely to encrease when the Ministry have been most famous and active then the Devil hath stirred up deadly enemies and opposers this hath been in all ages this wee sadly experience in our daies Was there ever a more learned pious famous Ministry in England than now there is I challenge even its enemies and amongst them Mr. Ives to contradict it if they can And shall wee not sigh at it had ever the Ministry of England so great and so many Designers to undermine it But the Father of Truth usually so blesseth his own cause that it gets by opposition thus wee can say of this truth of Ordination of Ministers which in my knowledge hath gotten ground by these late Broyles Gather your selves together and you shall bee broken in peeces for the Lord is with us Isa 8.9 10. Mat. 28.20 2 That those that have Designs against the Truth have usually some plausible pretence to carry them on the Devil hath got the Art now adaies to wrap himself in a Prophets Mantle to appear as an Angel of light in his choycest Instruments who usually with a seeming religious garb footh up with soft words till they may opportunely change their Court-ships into calumnies Hath not Mr. Ives worthily shown himself for Ordination of Ministers as hee pretends that would make the world beleeve that the present godly Ministry is Antichristian if hee could and that hath thus thrust himself into a quarrel against it 3 That those that design the propagating of their errours will for the most part oppose their hands will bee against every man but seldome assert their own opinion and prove it is it not because it is easier to quarrel with truth than to prove an errour and because that is a time to break in when the ranks are first shattered to broach errours when men are staggered in the truth or is not this the end viz. to bee alway accusing of others that they themselves may never bee questioned or called to justifie their own practices Hath not Mr. Ives plaid his part in this by opposing every man not of his own way that wee might beleeve what hee asserts to bee truth Hath hee not done so in these Queries where doth hee bring the least positive truth or one Argument to justifie his own practice or to state what is right Hath hee brought one probable Argument to prove that gifted brethren may preach or that people may hear them that the Church ought to ordain and not Ministers hath hee unfolded any of those independent Riddles viz. that a company of those that are baptized and owne their Baptisme are not Members of a Visible Church Or that a Minister being such in relation to his Church acts no longer as in Office than to his Church and that at one and the same time and place hee preacheth as a meer gifted Brother to those that are not of his Church and as a Minister to those of his Church thus thou mayest see his spirit of Opposition and his design to cry out on others that none may suspect his cause as cut-purses that they may may not bee accused Ought hee not to do otherwise the next time 4 That this task I have here undertaken is the first and therefore may bee guilty of mistakes of which I begge thy pardon and do promise thee that nothing but what is more than ordinarily material shall provoke mee to spend my own time in writing or thine in reading Bee zealous for the truth pray for its progress and bee thankful to God for any satisfaction thou shalt receive by him who is thy concealed Friend N. E. FINIS