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A04208 A Christian and modest offer of a most indifferent conference, or disputation, about the maine and principall controversies betwixt the prelats, and the late silenced and deprived ministers in England tendered by some of the said ministers to the archbishops, and bishops, and all their adherents. Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624. 1606 (1606) STC 14329; ESTC S120767 28,632 54

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defectiue and unperfect are true Churches whose willing subjecting themselues unto their Ministerie maketh the very outward calling it selfe of the said Ministers to be such as it is And therefore so long as their consciences being in the meane time vnconvinced of these their errors wherein they stād God taketh not away their Ministeriall gifts frō them and so long as their Churches cleaue unto them though in their entrance continuance they were and are guiltie of much sinne in approving by Conformitie and Subscription the Iurisdiction of Prelats they thinke it not just wholly to separate from them and their Ministerie but are content though with some griefe and sorrow so far forth to joyne with them in the worship of God as they can without their personall Communion with them in those corruptions which in their weaknes they yeeld vnto 3. If the Prelats shall still hold the things in question in such sort as of late they haue done shall vrge them so hotely as they begin both the Ministers many of the people wil be forced to leaue their ordinary standing in these Churches In which regard they humbly pray that they may be exempted from the Prelats may haue liberty granted vnto them by the King to serue God according to his owne will revealed in his word without any Humane Traditions As for that publique Ministerie derived from the Prelats besides that it cannot be entered into without yeelding to corruption sinne it is also very defectiue to speake the truth little more then a halfe Ministerie if it be compared with the Pastorall Office commanded and commended vnto vs by the Holy Ghost Which the Ministers discerning and perceaving plainly that there is litle or no cōfort to be had in the exercising of such a Ministerie as hitherto they haue injoyed they are bold to make their humble Suite to his Maiestie that they may be freed from the Prelats vsurpation over them and may be vnder the guidance Censure of the Civill Magistrats unles by such an indifferent Tryall as is heere Offered the Prelats shall iustify their Callings and Courses to be of God 12. OPPOSITION A vaine thing it is to yeeld to any such Offer For who must iudge on which side the truth is They name none And when they haue been heard to oppose and Answer what they can they will not stand to any mans definitiue sentence but will continue obstinate still ANSWER 1. In desiring that the whole cariage of this intended Conference may be published they make all the world to be Iudges thereof even the Prelats and the Papists them selues all that shall read the same 2. They do not think it lawfull in any matter of Religion much lesse in matters of so great consequence to settle their consciences vpon the definitiue sentence of any person absolutely that is so far as to renounce any thing which they haue believed because such or such iudge it to be otherwise For so they might both headily wilfully betray the truth of Christ and inthrall themselues to error and also detract from Christ and his blessed word their proper right and giue it unto men It should therefore content any Christianly affected man that the Ministers are content to offer their Defence of these poynts to the view of all to skan and to weigh thē and so far forth to judge therof as if their reasons do not satisfie them to giue them leaue to condēne them of error which wil be a Iudgment heavie enough to them if notwithstanding they shall still persist in their former opinions 3. It may please God that by the evidence and force of those Arguments or Answers that shal be propounded both sides may thinke themselues satisfied and one side yeeld If the Prelates haue this grace to yeeld then his Majesty the State know best what they haue to doe in such a Case If the Ministers yeeld then the greatest matter that can be expected of them is Submission and Conformity which if they shall refuse the Law is open so that in this case there needes no Definitiue sentence of a Iudge It both sides rest vnsatisfied and continew perswaded still that the truth is on their side it were impious for either side in such a case to commit the absolute determination therof vnto the will and pleasure of any man or men whomsoeuer And it were vniust for either side to require Iudges either incompetent or not indifferent For as the Prelats might iustly except they would wilfully betray their owne cause refuse such to be Iudges as haue in any degree inclined more to the Ministers then to them so may the Ministers in like maner as iustly refuse to stand to the Iudgment and determination of such as incline more to the Prelats then to them much more of such as haue shewed themselues maine patrons and vpholders of the Prelats and adversaries to the Ministers Sith therfore the Prelats can not set forth any person or persons to whom it is meet to commit the absolute determination of so great a cause it were very vniust and vnequall to binde the Ministers to stand to the judgment of those that are partiall 4. It is needles to name Iudges his Maiestie the Civill Magistrats vnder him and the High Court of Parliament though the Ministers should appeale from them would in this case judge thē and their Cause yea and are bound soe to doe Whose Iudgment if it goe against the Ministers and it appeare to be righteous the more they shall neglect the same and refuse to submit themselues vnto it the more grosse refractary they shall shew themselues to be and with the more honor and credit may the State ioyne with the Prelats in making and executing Lawes for the suppressing of them and their Errors which is as much advantage as any Christian can desyre over any Enemies of the truth And what would the Prelats haue more Prov. 19.21 Many devises are in a mans heart but the Counsell of the Lord shall stand Math 22 21. Giue unto Caesar the thinges which are Caesars and giue unto God those things which are Gods
our Cōsciences as being perswaded in our very soules that we cannot yeeld unto them without sinning against Christ Iesus whose Ministers and Messengers we are And if upon such a due Triall of our cause as is desired the truth of the ensuing Propositions which are the speciall groundes on which we stand shal be infringed by the Prelates nay if we shall not be able to make them so cleere and manifest by the infallible undeniable evidence of the holy word of God that who so doth not wilfully hoodwinke himselfe may plainely see and discerne the truth of them we doe heere promise and binde our selues in the word of Christians that we will presently change our mindes and become wholly Conformable to the present State Wherefore we being herein privy to our owne uprightnes both to God to our Soveraigne cannot but conceiue some hope notwithstanding all the contrary plottes and practises of the Prelates that your Maiestie who are even as an Angell of God to discerne betweene good and evill wil be pleased now at last both to take a more exact knowledge of our cause and out of the tender bowells of your compassion to thinke upon and pity the distressed estate not onely of us the Lordes poore servants who are without any iust cause cast out from serving at his Altar but also of the Churches of Christ in this land which doe mourne and grone under the burden of humane Traditions Oh that this should be told at Gath or published in the streetes of Ashkelon amongst the daughters of the uncircumcised that under the Governement of so worthily renowned and famous a Prince the Churches of God haue been thus miserably wasted and such a woful havock made in them by vsurping time-serving Prelates as the like hath never been heard of in this land under the Gospell Oh that this should be either said or written in succeeding ages that in the raigne of Noble King Iames whose name shall liue amongst men when he having finished his course shall sleepe with his Fathers so many painefull Preachers of the Gospell even three hundred or there-aboutes haue in one yeere and a litle more been turned out of Christs service onely for refusing such Ceremonies as haue their life breath and being from Poperie and such a Subscription as the like for ought we know hath neuer been urged upon any Church of Christ in any age under a Christian Magistrate there being in the meane time whole swarmes of idle Idole scandalous Popish and Non-resident Ministers tolerated every where amongst us The Prelates haue left no meanes of rigour and extremitie vnassayed for the suppressing of this cause and for the discouraging and daunting of all those that either speake or write for it and yet the glorious evidence of the truth is such that it wanteth no witnesses there being at this day many hundreds of the most painefull profitable Preachers in this Kingdome besides those alreadie turned out which are readie to lose both their Ministery their Maintenance and to expose themselues theirs to all manner of misery rather then they will renounce this Cause and conforme themselues to the Corruptions of the times If therefore there be in the Prelates any loue of the truth or any sparke of desire of the peace and prosperitie of our Churches which is the thing that they so much pretend unto your Maiestie it will now appeare and shew it self and you shall easily discerne it by their indeavour to procure the admittance of this Offer which is the likeliest the readiest way that hitherto hath been thought upon both to finde out the truth and to put a perpetuall end to all these long-continued Controversies Some other thinges there be which we would willingly haue brought to this or the like Triall as namely the Oth ex officio which is a cruell a racking of the minde as the most exquisite Torture can be of the body and sundrie of the late Canons But because they be of another nature and we take them to be not onely contrary to the word of God but also directly against the lawes of the land we mention them not in our Propositions in which we haue endevoured to set downe onely the groundes of all the maine differences betwixt us the Prelats which if they be once throughly debated soundly agreed upon your Maiestie shall see such a blessed vnitie and vniformitie in all the Churches within your Dominions as your owne heart desireth May it therfore please your most excellent Maiestie to reade examine this Offer to weigh in all the partes therof the equitie iustice of it the most certaine advantage that the truth on which side soever it is shall receiue by the acceptance of it may it please you likewise to urge the Prelates whom it deepely concerneth to admitt of it and to secure by Royall protection those that shal be Actors in it who howsoever they are forced to conceale their names in regard of the rigor and severitie of the Prelates will notwithstanding be most willing readie to shew themselues if your Maiestie shall vouchsafe to signifie your gratious pleasure touching the admittance of this Conference If therefore we haue found favour in your Maiesties eyes and if this great cause of Christs be regarded Our humble suite vnto your Highnes is that you would make it knowne by some publike Act that the Offer shal be accepted and they protected by your Royall Authority that haue or shall haue to doe in it So shall we haue occasion every day more and more to intreat the Lord as we haue done and will doe for ever that he will continue vpon your Maiestie with a happy increase all his graces both bodily and spirituall even untill and in the day of Christ The Lord Iesus blesse your Maiestie and your Royall posteritie and graunt vnto you a long and a happie raigne over us the Lord multiplie all his mercyes upon you both for this and a better life and cover with shame the faces of all such as wish you the least evill Amen Your Majesties obedient Subjects most readie to doe your will in all thinges wherein they shall not disobey the will of God Some of the late silenced and deprived Ministers A CHRISTIAN AND MODEST OFFER OF A MOST INDIFFERENT CONFERENCE or disputation about the maine and principall Controversies betwixt the Prelats and the late s●●nced and deprived Ministers in England TENDERED BY SOME OF THE SAID MINISTERS TO THE Archbishops and Bishops and all their adherents Wherein are set downe 1. The Propositions which the Ministers offer to maintaine against the Prelats 2. The Conditions forme and maner of the Conference or Disputation 3. Iust Considerations moving the Ministers to make this Offer 4. An Answer to such opposisions as may be made by the Prelats against yeeiding to the said Offer 1. THE PROPOSITIONS VVHICH THE MINISTERS OFfer to maintaine against the Prelats 1. ALL matters meerely