Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n
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A66941
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A dialogue between Mr. Prejudice, a dissenting country gentleman, and Mr. Reason, a student in the University being a short vindication of the University from popery and an answer to some objections concerning the D. of Y.
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Wood, Thomas, 1661-1722.
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1682
(1682)
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Wing W3408; ESTC R26396
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11,430
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27
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was thought fit to reform them as I am confident you will grant it a Christian Man having the Care and Government of an Infidel's Child committed to him will think himself bound in Conscience to educate it in the Christian Religion Prejud But pray what can you say to the Images over your College Gates and in other places your young Boies painted with Wings at their Backs over your Altars your Brass Candlesticks your Saints painted in Glass Windows c. I believe you will persuade me that Idolatry is not Popery anon but as I said before some wiser than some Reason Why we say just as much to them as you say to the Pictures that hang up in your Parlour they are onely suffered to be there for decency and ornament sake But to deal plainly with you I confess their first erection was merely superstitious idolatrous c. but why they may not be permitted now for the ornament of God's House and for civil and historical uses not onely lawfully and decently but even profitably there being no apparent danger of Superstition B. Sanderson or why things either in their first erection or by succeeding abuse superstitious may not be profitably continued if the Superstition be abolished the most zealous hot-headed profound Dissenter could never give any thing that was like a substantial Reason But if that should be the Reason because they were once superstitious not onely Pictures Crosses Images but most of our Hospitals Schools and Colleges which I hope now you do not think ay and Parish Churches too must down and so the hatred of Idolatry should but usher in licentious Sacrilege contrary to the Apostle Rom. 2. 22. Thou that abhorrest Idols committest thou Sacrilege Prejud Sir I don't intend to be persuaded the Superstition is abolished Have I not seen your Gravest Divines among you at their entrance into the Church cast their Eyes upon the Glass Windows bow towards the Altars worship the Pictur'd Saints and make Leggs to the Brazen Candlesticks Reason All this is said upon the account of Bowing towards the Altar As for casting their Eyes upon the Painted Glass Windows c. 't is a mere fancy of yours if you would pull out that Beam of prejudice out of your own Eye you would see and understand more clearly You would see that we the Sons of the Church of England profess an invincible Hatred to Idolatry you would understand that we are throughly sensible that those Images have Eyes and see not Ears and hear not c. do not cannot regard our Worship That we scorn to offer the Sacrifice of Prayer to a Creature that is beneath us that none can answer our Petitions but a God that is glorious immortal eternal incomprehensible c. If our God was nothing but a Picture c. or Wood or Stone I my self would turn Dissenter I protest I would turn Atheist own no other superiour or equal to me but my self But as to the business of Bowing to the Altar there is nothing of Idolatry in the Case 'T is onely a civil Respect to the Place upon the supposal that God is more immediately present there where the most sacred and Solemnest Parts of Religion are perform'd No more Idolatrous than when you stand bare in the Presence Chamber But if there be a Question Whether there is any Place that deserves so much Respect is nothing at all to our Purpose For if there is Bowing to the Altar were nothing else but a too-forward pious ceremonious Mistake having nothing at all of Sinfulness in it nothing at all of Idolatry Prejud But pray Sir Is not your Liturgie the Mass-Book translated into English Is not the Surplice Organs c. used at this very day among the Papists Reason Our Liturgie is no more the Mass-Book than your Directory is This is onely a Pill that is thrust into the Mouth of the Vulgar being charg'd first of all to shut their eyes and to swallow it down whole It has been often profered that if any of your Party will prove any one passage in our Liturgie contrary to Scripture it shall be presently taken into consideration and corrected to his satisfaction As to the Surplice Organs c. they are things totally indifferent neither morally good nor evil They seem at once to heighten Devotion and to be a solemn Ornament and Decency to the Church We must conform to them because Authority has commanded it lest by an ill-natur'd Peevishness we resisting the Ordinance of God plunge our selves into manifest Sins If you had been in another Country it would not have been sinfull if you did not conform to the Church of England in matter of Ceremonies but seeing you are under her Government and she commands you to doe so and so you by resisting her Authority do incur God's Displeasure and without Repentance and the Prevention of Mercy eternal Damnation Prejud Surplice and Organs c. are used among the Papists Must we conform to things that are Popish Reason I see the very word Popish frights you I believe 't would seem a strange Paradox to you if I should affirm that some things in the Roman Church are truly religious and commendable Pray Sir understand a-right Our Ancestours once very unhappily fell a-sleep suffer'd Tares to grow up with the Wheat but when it pleased God to awaken 'em each man bestirr'd himself to root out what was evil suffering the good onely to stand and expect the wonted Blessings from him who first planted and water'd it I tell you they all once were Papists but at last finding their Errour they flew from every thing that was superstitious and sinfull carrying onely things righteous and innocent with them But they happened to have a sort of zealous hot-headed quarrelsome Companions that by and by seemed to strike off towards Geneva who would by all means persuade 'em to throw away all or else most of their Carriage and their onely Argument was that they were Popish Popish yet acknowledging still that those things they had with them were innocent and righteous Nay they say One Fellow whether he were mad or drunk they could not possitively tell mov'd that they should cast away Prayers and Preaching and every thing that was like Religion because 't was Popish Popish but some of his Party desired him to say nothing of those at present they would obtain these slight requests first and consider of the rest hereafter And really if because they were Popish Popish were a sufficient Reason they might as well have disown'd all Religion as the Surplice and Organs c. I believe you would think a Romish piece of Mony not true Silver because it had Caesar's or Anti-christ's Inscription If we embrace Popish Superstition we are much to be blam'd but you nor the greatest prejudic'd Person in the World can see any hurt in Truth and Goodness though Popery doth own it Prejud Truly the Surplice and Organs c. as we use them may
A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Mr. PREJVDICE A Dissenting Country Gentleman AND Mr. REASON A Student in the University BEING A short Vindication of the Vniversity from Popery and an Answer to some Objections concerning the D. of Y. Ars Academia non habent inimicos praeter ignorantes London Printed for T. Sawbridge 1682. HUmbly dedicated to those who seek to be Undeceived and desire to be Loyal By T. W. A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Mr. PREJVDICE A Dissenting Country Gentleman AND Mr. REASON A Student in the University Prejudice YOU are a Company of Lazy Lord-Danes Domineering bold Coxcombs c. Crab-Protestants that crawl backwards to Popery Catts-feet wherewith the Romish Monkeys claw the Protestant Religion c. Sbud you are Heathens Mahometans Persians whose onely Religion is to worship the Rising Sun I can easily prove you are Papists Reason Ay Sir if you will prove any thing I am for you but what you have said all this while I take to be nothing else but a Regiment of Rabble Dirt mustered and raked up to oppose and bespatter our Monarch Truth Prejudice Well you shall see that whom you call your Monarch Truth I shall prove to be an Vsurper Impostour Son of the Whore and as I was saying before I shall prove you University men to be Papists Reason Come Sir now I am resolved to listen Prejud And you shall have your own way It shall be in Mode and Figure for I was once of your Coat and had the happiness to understand your tricks Thus Sir I shall prove it and that Infallibly They that live in Colleges built by Papists are themselves Papists But you Vniversity men live in Colleges that were built by Papists Tarbox 'T is all certainly true for your Colleges were built either by Cardinals and you know there be no Protestant Cardinals or else by Popish Bishops or some of the Popish Layety and you know those that are Popish are Papists therefore your Colleges were built by Papists Reas Ha ha he I am not angry with your Minor I declare I am good friends with it I acknowledge most of our Colleges were built by Papists but Sir I have a very great Grudge against your Major I desire you would prove that they that live in Colleges that were built by Papists are themselves Papists Prejud Ha! deny the Major Why 't is a Principle 'T is agreed upon by all the Country Gentlemen that live within three or four miles of me I know no one that ever contradicted it but the simple Parson of the Parish and a few other Nonsensical fellows Reas Pray Sir don't be so cholerick Let me ask you Were not Cities Towns c. here in England founded and built before the Reformation Prejud And that was not quite two hundred year ago yes I believe they were What then Reas Then I suppose they may be built by Popish Founders Popish Masons c. for we never heard that the Protestant Religion ever came into England before that time And if so Why may you not as well conclude that those that live in Cities Towns c. that were founded by Papists are themselves Papists as those that live in Colleges built by Papists are Papists Come Sir What do you say Prejud For any thing I know they may have a Spice of Popery but if I was certainly assured of what you say I would set all the Towns on fire about us as soon as I came home I wonder'd in the Devil's Name what made the greatest part of the Nation side with the D of Y. But supposing this is maliciously vented forth because it has the face of an Objection or not that there is any thing of Truth or Consequence in it I am not so well satisfied as you may think Have not some of you a maintenance from those Popish Founders Are you not the Pope's Pensioners Pray now Are you not sworn to Statutes which were made by those Popish Founders Have not they specified in those Statutes that you shall have Mass read in your Chapels at such and such times that you shall acknowledge the Pope as Supreme that you should in every tittle conform to the Church of Rome c. or else to be turn'd out and suffer utter expulsion Or Will you make me believe that there is no such thing and that Papists would erect Societies for men of a different Religion from themselves or would allow a maintenance for Heathens Pagans and Hereticks This is a nut that you can't crack Sir and an Objection that all the Philosophy in the World cannot solve Reason Well Sir I shall onely desire to be heard You having granted that all Cities Towns c. were founded before the Reformation and consequently by Papists we may suppose that they had their Charters and Customs conferr'd upon them by Papists confirm'd by a Popish Parliament and in those Charters c. specified that they should be subject to the Pope's Authority and to his Vice-gerents and that they should conform to the Church of Rome c. Now as the Charters c. were corrected at the coming in of the Protestant Religion by Protestant Parliaments so our Statutes being at first conferr'd upon us by Popish Founders confirm'd by a Popish Parliament at the coming in of the Protestant Religion were corrected by a Protestant Parliament so that the person at his admittance now swears to nothing that is sinfull or Popish but what is either an indifferent Custom or conformable to Reason Scripture and the Church of England as 't is by Law established Therefore as you would not argue that all persons that live in Cities Towns c. are Popish because they had their Charters conferr'd upon them at first by Papists since they are repealed and corrected by the coming in of Protestants so I may presume that you will not argue that we that received our Statutes at first from Popish Founders are our selves Papists since the case is altogether parallel and the same Prejud But pray What can you say to clear your selves when 't is known that you have maintenance from Popish Founders and are the Pope's Pensioners Reason Pray Sir let me ask you again Suppose your Great Grandfather was a Papist and after his death had left his whole Estate to your Grandfather that was a Protestant your Grandfather dies and leaves it to your Father that was a Protestant and at last it comes to you as being next Heir Would you not think people fools that should conclude that you are a Papist and the Pope's Pensioner because you enjoy and have your maintenance from the Estate that was once your Popish Great-Grandfather's See Sir if the Case is not the same here too Prejud Well I find you would persuade me to any thing in the World but you shall find that some are wiser than some Reason The whole business in short is this Our Founders were good honest pious Men in their way but a purer Religion being brought into the Nation it