Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	believe_v	gospel_n	know_v	2,011	5	3.9151	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85393	A fresh discovery of the high-Presbyterian spirit. Or The quenching of the second beacon fired. Declaring I. The un-Christian dealings of the authors of a pamphlet, entituled, A second beacon fired, &c. In presenting unto the Lord Protector and Parlament, a falsified passage out of one of Mr John Goodwins books, as containing, either blasphemie, or error, or both. II. The evil of their petition for subjecting the libertie of the press to the arbitrariness and will of a few men. III. The Christian equity, that satisfaction be given to the person so notoriously and publickly wronged. Together with the responsatory epistle of the said beacon firers, to the said Mr Goodwin, fraught with further revilings, falsifications, scurrilous language, &c. insteed of a Christian acknowledgment of their errour. Upon which epistle some animadversions are made, / by John Goodwin, a servant of God in the Gospel of his dear Son. Also two letters written some years since, the one by the said John Goodwin to Mr. J. Caryl; the other, by Mr Caryl in answer hereunto; both relating to the passage above hinted.	Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665.; Caryl, Joseph, 1602-1673.	1655 (1655)	Wing G1167; Thomason E821_18; ESTC R202307	68,987	94

and thy Fathers house so may I with evidence enough of truth answer you that it is not I but you and your Prophets that are excellent at that kind of Forgery you speak of if you will needs place an excellency in it you or they or both of you together in the inditing of this very Epistle have begotten I know not how many of those Bastard and hard-favoured Monsters you talk of and have layd them at my door But I shall remand them to those who have polluted their consciences with the malicious pleasure of their generation and cause them to bear the shame of them d The shame of staining paper with slanderous cavils is a covering fit for your faces it suiteth not with mine further then by a Christian Sympathy I bear the burthen and shame of your folly in this kind I wish that slanderous cavils were as much beneath you and your Prophets as they are beneath me e Truly you need not put this question to me For I freely confess that I do not know any of those learned men against whom I write who ever asserted the unchangeableness of Gods Love to Apostates or to persons of that Character which you further describe The opinions of those learned men whom I oppose or write against so far as I oppose them are obnoxious more then enough as expressed by themselves so that I have no temptation lying upon me to falsifie or corrupt them yet some of the learned men you speak of and particularly your Prophets about the City do assert the unchangeableness of Gods Love towards all true Beleevers many of which I have evinced both from the Scriptures by pregnant argument and demonstration by a full consort and harmony of Orthodox and learned men both ancient and modern yea by many Testimonies of those persons themselves who are counted pillars of the contrary Faith yea and lastly by experience it self may and do turn Apostates afterwards Book-sellers or Beacon-firers §. III. We have heard of some Arminians who never did read Calvin himself but were wont to read Calvins opinion in a Jesuite and take it for granted that their brother Jesuite was to be trusted We fear that you may be baptized into the same spirit of giddinesse a You put the poor Protestant in a Bear-skin and then set the dogs upon him that you may disport your self and your Confederates with that Tragick Comedy Give us leave to tell all your friends who beleeve as your Church beleeves That they who are false accusers of the brethren are sons of Belial b It is not Calvin but Mr. Goodwin who doth maintain the Apostacy of the Saints in his blasphemous Libels c It is no wonder if Such we shall remember the word Such Apostate Saints are inslaved in Journey-work to Apostate Angels d Be pleased to arm your selfe with patience whilest we tell you a story which runs thus in brief when your Brother Bertius gave his booke De Apostasia Sanctorum to King James the King passed this censure upon him This Heretick saith he deserves to be commended for his wit but hanged for his knavery e Mr. Goodwins Animadversion III. a I can deliver you or if you please you may I conceive with some pains deliver your selves from this fear concerning me For in my reading I never met with any of those citations from Calvin on which I insist in any of my writings in any Jesuit whatsoever and I beleeve that you may travel a long journey in reading these Authors before you meet with any of them You speak so many untruths and these fully known unto me for such in this letter that I know not how to beleeve you when you say We have heard of some Arminians who c. I much doubt whether ever you heard of any such or no especially from any Informer worthy credit I fear you pin your Faith upon the sleeves of many who after the manner of the false Prophets of old make you glad with lies You make the Arminian brother to the Jesuite but the kindred is much neerer between the Jesuite and the Black-Friars b Here again you only vary the phrase but pour out your High-Presbeterian spirits in the same shameless untruths with which you stained both your credits and consciences at once in the former Section You and your Rabbies to use a word of your own are they who put not Protestants only but many the dear children of God themselves into the Bears-skins you speak of and then do as you say As for me I do not remember that I anywhere make use of any Bears Skin but what I have pluck'd off from the backs of those whom I put into them Nor do I set the dogs upon any poor Protestant unless it be upon my self and those few friends by you termed Confederates which God hath given me against these I have exasperated and enraged you know who and how But neither I nor any of my Confederates as far as they are known to me are wont to disport our selves with any mans weakness or shame The truth in this point as in twenty others in your Letter is not at all beholding to you for your courtesie in sparing her You need neither crave leave nor take leave to tell my Friends that they who are false accusers of the Brethren are Sons of Belial they are instructed in this truth to your hand and by the light of it they are able fully to discern who and what manner of persons you are If your meaning be to reflect upon me as a false accuser of the Brethren you act like him who compasseth the Earth to and fro to draw men into the same condemnation with himself You will never be able to prove that I ever accused any man falsely much less a Brother Therefore consider in the fear of God whose Sons you make your selves by this charge Those who beleeve as the Church with me beleeveth beleeve as the Scriptures teacheth you and all other men to beleeve and this you may through the long suffering and bountifulness of God come to know in time although the truth is that you desperately obstruct your way to the knowledge of the truth by entreating those so unworthily who desire to make you partakers of this happiness with themselves But me thinks you of all men should not disparage men for beleeving as their Church beleeveth who suffer your Classique and Synodical Pastors to exercise what dominion over your Faith they please c If by my Libels you mean my little Books for other Libels of mine neither you nor I know any you commit the sin of Falsification in adjuncto in calling them blasphemous Nor need I at all be troubled for being charged with Blasphemy by the sons of High Presbitery for was not the Lord Jesus Christ himself Blessed for ever charged with the same crime by men of a sympathizing spirit Then the High Priest rent his clothes saying he hath spoken blasphemy What further need have we

Lord Protector and the Parliament all this while wherein they have established no such Committee allowed men a liberty to blaspheme Jesus Christ or to corrupt his Gospel Therefore doubtlesse you do not understand your selves Nor can any man make sence and truth of your words with the least pertinency to your cause Nor do I well understand what you mean by Blaspheming Jesus Christ and yet lesse what you mean by corrupting his Gospel You and your Prophets have odd notions and conceits about Blasphemy Scarce any truth can be held forth which thwarteth or falleth foul on any of your tenents or Doctrines but this Antipathy by you is turned into Blasphemy And whether by corrupting the Gospel you mean the mingling of any errour though never so light or small with gospel truths or whether such a corrupting it which wholly destroies the nature and blessing intended unto men by it or whether a corrupting it to such or such a degree between these two extreams who can so much as steadily conjecture The truth is that I know very few who are greater corrupters of the Gospel then your greatest Champions When you say that all things are not free in a free Common-wealth do you speak to any purpose Or doth it follow from hence so much as by a dream of a consequence that therefore the Press ought not to be free because all things are not free Behold the natural face of your arguing in a glasse All things are not lawfull for men to do therefore eating when they are an hungry or drinking when they are thirsty are not lawfull b The three thirteenths you here point me unto I have already read at least thrice over respectively and have drawn conclusions from them to my full satisfaction against yours And if you please to see what conclusions I have drawn from them and what grounds I have laid upon which you also may draw the like I shall direct you to my respective arguings and explications of them The first of your three places you shall find examined by me at large in my treatise intituled Hagiomastix from 34. to the end of 41. Your second in a small discourse written upon that text of Scripture onely intituled a Postscript or Appendix to the former discourse Your third and last in the said discourse from the beginning of 45. to the end of 50. Between these Scriptures taken conjunctim and divisim and between your cause you will find a very cold Communion c Your Answer to my sixt reason is very little and yet to less purpose For 1. What do you mean by The Religion which the State owneth 2. What do you mean by the Christian Religion For this latter first The Religion owned and professed by Anti-Christian States is at least in a sence the Christian Religion Yea they have as much confidence if not more of the truth and soundnesse of their Religion as any Protestant State can have of the Religion owned and professed by them Secondly I would know what you mean by the Religion which the State owneth that so it may be considered not so much whether it be but how and how far and in what sence it may be called the Christian Religion First if by the State you mean either all those onely that have part in the Rule and Government of the Nation or else the great Body it self and Bulk of the Nation who can distinctly and in particular tell what Religion it is that is owned or that ever will be owned by either That Religion or that System of Tenents or confession of Faith which was composed and drawn up by the late Assembly of Divines and others at Westminster is not it seems owned or is not like long to be owned by the State in either acception of the word For the State in the former sence is in Travail with another Religion I mean another Confession or Profession of Faith which when they shall have assented unto and Authorized there is little question but the State in the latter sence will more generally own also If a man should repair to every particular member of the State in the former sence and much more in the latter and desire his sence and judgement distinctly touching his Religion and what he particularly holdeth in such and such points there is little question to be made but that in many things at least he should meet with the exemplification of the Proverb quot capita tot sensus quot homines tot sententiae as many men so many minds Yea in case the respective members of the State in the former sence shall joyntly and unanimously subscribe and Authorize any confession of the Faith which shall be formed either by themselves or by any number of Ministers or others this will amount to no proof that therefore the same Religion especially in all points is owned by them For it is a most true saying that Fides est in sensu non in verbis a mans faith consists in that which he meaneth not in the words which he speaketh And who knows not but the same words may have different interpretations and senses put upon them Therefore in case a State shall publiquely own and Authorize a model of Religion or Confession of Faith that shall be presented unto them I shall be very little the neerer hereby to know of what Religion this State is unless each particular member of this State shall further distinctly and particularly explain his sence touching every Article or head of Doctrine therein The truth is that to a State Religion it may be aptly said Belluae multorum es capitum nam quid sequar aut quem A many-headed Beast thou art for what or who May I with peace and safety for my Guide allow I confess men may be very unhappily and beyond the forecast of their own Genius inspired in the composing and drawing up a Catechism or Confession of Faith But I judg that hardly can either be formed or contrived in such words but that in case I may be allowed my own sence and construction of them I can subscribe them Book-Sellers or Beacon-Firers §. XIIII 7. To the seventh You do but repeat the Blasphemy which you darted against Heaven in your first Argument For we never desired the Parliament to suppress any truth revealed by the Spirit of God in the holy Scriptures but to suppress Blasphemies and Heresies a Mr. John Goodwins Animadversion XIIII a What Gentlemen suppose I had charged you with desiring the Parliament to suppress truths revealed by the spirit c. had this been blasphemy darted against Heaven Are you Heaven or any the Inhabitants thereof I cannot but here tell you that such importune and horrid assumings as these on the one hand and such abominable untruths and slanders one following in the neck of another like the waves of the Sea on the other hand are not so much as the way thither but to a far differing place For I know cause to

this his affection towards him and consequently loveth him with the same love as great as rich as dear under all these horrible pollutions and most accursed abominations as he either would or could have loved him with in case he had all this while walked in the greatest innocency and uprightnesse of heart and life before him Now then this is that which I affirm that to attribute such an unchangeableness of love unto God as this which maketh him to love an obstinate and obdurate sinner a worker of all manner of abominations with the same affection wherewith he loveth a just holy and good man a worker of all righteousnesse is of a blasphemous import to those glorious Attributes of his his Righteousness and Holiness For if the case were thus with God should not the world have cause to demand with those in Malachy Where is the God of judgement a Or what is there or can there be of a more diametrical opposition unto righteousnesse then equally to respect and love the most unrighteous with those that are most righteous or unto Holiness then to honour those that are most polluted and abominable as much as those that are holy Nor can you here pretend that I wrong your Doctrine of Perseverance to the value of the least hair on your head by making it a Patronesse and Protectrix of such an unchangeablenesse of love in God as that now represented because evident it is that without such an unchangeableness supposed the said Doctrine will neither have footing nor foundation to support it For though you and others Patrons of this Doctrine understand your selves and be-friend your Doctrine better then to express or represent it unto the world in those black and dismal colours wherewith I have now drawn the pourtraicture of it or to describe the unchangeableness of love in God which must be the Basis and Pillar of it in such tearms as it hath been described by me yet there is nothing more pregnant and notorious then that your soft and silken and most tender expressions of it being regularly and according to the exigencie of truth interpreted and drawn out of these collusive involutions amount every whit to as much or more in deformity and A theologicalness of notion as any expressions used by me do import For certain it is nor do I remember that I ever met with a denial of it amongst the greatest Defenders of your Faith in the point of Perseverance that he that truly believeth may possibly fall and that within a very short time after this his believing into the greatest and foulest sins that the nature of man is lightly incident into as drunkenness adultery murther envy malice covetousness oppression idolatry c. yea and from the time of his first falling into them may continue and hold on in the practise of them for many years together yea possibly to the very approaches of death without repentance Onely you teach indeed but by humane not divine inspiration neither that such persons I mean once believers in case they fall into such sins as those now mentioned or the like yet never miscarry in the great businesse of Salvation but by an high hand of Grace from God are always brought back unto repentance before their death However upon the former supposition it clearly follows that your Doctrine of Perseverance cannot stand without the rotten prop of a Supposal of such an unchangeableness of love in God which is palpably and in the eye of a very ordinary understanding of an highly disparaging and blasphemous import to his Righteousness and Holiness In what sence the Scriptures hold forth an unchangeableness in God and so in all his Attributes and particularly in his Love I declare once and again upon occasion in my late Book of Redemption page 63 64. And again page 278 279. and page 205 206. c. Elsewhere as viz page 318 319. and p. 330. c. I demonstratively prove your Doctrine of Perseverance to be at open and manifest defiance also with another great Attribute of God his Wisdom Yea when I look narrowly into the purport and tendencies of this your Doctrine I cannot over-rule my thoughts but that they will be very jealous that it is accessary to far the greatest part of those abominations at this day raging amongst us Antinomianism Enthusiasm Familism of the dangerous and vile opinions and practises of those called Seekers and of those bred of the dregs and retriment of all these the Ranters and generally of all the coolings declinings backslidings and of all other foul and sad miscarriages amongst Professors Sir I have looked upon you as the glory of the London Ministery and do so still notwithstanding the contest of your judgment against mine about the Doctrine of Redemption and the questions relating hereunto Yet give him leave who is possibly looked upon by you as by many others as the reproach and shame of this Ministry to say this unto you that those two opinions the one of a peremptory personal Election from Eternity the other of a peremptory and necessitated perseverance of the Saints genuinely interpreted do upon the matter wholly dissolve the usefulness and necessity of your Ministry the former in relation to persons yet unconverted the latter in respect of Beleevers For first if there be a certain number of men peremptorily designed by God to Salvation all others as peremptorily excluded what need either the one or the other regard either your Ministry or any other mans The former shall be infallibly and irresistibly converted and so saved whether you or any man else preach the Gospel unto them or no If so Fortis ubi est Ajax where or what is the necessity of the greatest Preacher under Heaven in respect of them The latter notwithstanding all the possible relief that you by your Ministry can afford them will and must inevitably perish Yea all the good that you are capable of doing unto these by your Ministry is onely to help them deeper into Hell Secondly if those who already beleeve shall certainly and against all possible interveniences persevere in faith unto the end what if the Ministry of the Gospel and they were quite parted They should run no hazard of losing their Crown hereby This great Truth viz. that your Doctrine of Perseverance frustrates the Ministry in reference unto the Saints I prove at large and I suppose beyond all reasonable contradiction Page 301. 302. 339. c. of the book formerly mentioned Where also I tear in pieces the Fig-leaf of that pretence that the Ministry of the Gospel notwithstanding the perseverance of the Saints be supposed absolute and unfrustrable is yet a means for the effecting or procuring of it But Sir concerning the passage recited wherein you pretend to finde so much danger that you judge it necessary to arm your Friends with a Religious caveat against it I verily beleeve that there is scarce any Page in any of those books which either

all the worthy men in the Nation unto the humor and conceit of a few men who for their comporting with the Religion of the times shall be sirnamed Orthodox which the said Beacon-firers do in effect very passionately suggest and commend unto the Parliament p. 11. and which were it put in execution according to the terms of the suggestion would certainly fire both Citie and Countrie as well as Beacons should me think argue the second Beacon not to be of your firing For you are reputed friends unto Jesus Christ and to the truth and consequently who can imagine that you should give any such advice especially unto a Parliament which is of an obstructive at least of a threatening import to the advancement and further discovery of Jesus Christ unto the world yea and which were it pursued by those to whom it is given cannot in greatest likelyhood but sort to an issue or consequence quite contrary to that whereunto it pretends I mean to a further propagating and spreading of errors and unsound Doctrines and Opinions in the Land and for the justification whereof there is neither footing nor foundation in the Scriptures For 1. Where doth the Lord Christ authorize any person or persons of what capacity soever to authorize or appoint any number of men whom they shall please to call Orthodox whether they be such or no yea or those which are such indeed to say unto the Holy Ghost nothing which thou revealest unto other men be it never so much for the glorifying of the name of God of never such worthy and sacred concernment unto the world shall publickly go forth into the world unlesse thou wilt reveal the same unto us also and make us partakers of the Vision as well as others Or doth not the Beacon-firers very passionately and importunely tempt men in authority to assume unto themselves such an exorbitant and prodigious power as this I mean to authorize a certain number of men who shall in their sence be Orthodox though according to the sence of as understanding men and probably according to the truth it self be as erroneous in their judgement as other men to word it is in effect at such a rate with the Holy Ghost 2. What ground is there in the Word of God for the investing of Edmund for example Arthur and William with a Nebuchadnezzarean power over the Press to stifle or slay what books they please and what they please to keep alive more then there is for the investing of Joshuah Peter and Tobiah with the same Or if the three latter be altogether as religious as judicious as learned as the three former by what rule of equity reason or conscience should they be more obnoxious in their writings and publication of them to the censure and disapprobation of these then these in their writings unto them Or by what rule delivered in the Word of God shall any man judge the three former either more religious learned or judicious and so more meet for the intrustment under consideration then the latter 3. Whether hath the Holy Ghost anywhere characterized or declared what qualifications are requisite and meet to be found in such persons who shall bee set over the Press and be intrusted with such a soveraignty of power as by which they shall be inabled to fill the world with books and writings for the advancement of their own faction or for the propogation of their own erroneous and perhaps dangerous conceits and on the other hand to suppresse whatsoever shall bee prepared by men of solid and sound judgements for the detection and eviction of their folly in such cases 4. Is not the granting of such a power over the presse as the Beacon firers in the great heat of their devotion and zeal sollicite the Parliament to vest in a certain number of men ill consistent with the interest and benefit of a free Common-wealth and of like nature and consideration with the granting of Monopolies Or may not the Commonwealth deeply suffer by the exercise of such a power in being thereby deprived of the use and benefit of the gifts parts experiments diligence and labours of many her worthy members 5. Who are in a regular capacity of power to nominate and appoint such persons to whom the said power over the Press ought to be committed If it be said the civil Magistrate 1. I would gladly know of the Beacen-firers who hath delegated such a power or authority unto him or in what part of the Word of God any such power is asserted unto him 2. Whether the said power over the Press bee an Ecclesiastick or civil power If it be the latter how are men set apart for the ministery of the Word of God and prayer capable of the investiture If it be the former how is the civil Magistrate in a capacity of conferring it or investing any man with it 6. If the Supream Magistrate in a State or Common-wealth be allowed a power to invest what persons he pleaseth with such a power over the Press as the Beacon-firers demand is it not to be expected that onely such persons shall be deputed to this trust by him which are of his own sence and judgement in matters of Religion and consequently who shall comply with a State Religion And are men of this character competent Arbitrators between persons of their own party and perswasion and those who are contrary minded to them in their contests about truth and errour And in case the Magistrate himself shall be unsound in the faith as men of this Order have no priviledge of exemption from errour more then other men nay they are under more and greater temptations then other men to be carried aside in their judgements from the truth if then I say the Magistrate be of an unsound judgement in things appertaining unto God shall not our Press-Masters be unsound also and consequently shall we not have errour countenanced and set at liberty and truth imprisoned and condemned to silence and obscurity 7. Shall not such men who shall undertake the administration of such a power by which the Press shall bee suffered to speak when they please and be compelled to keep silence when they please likewise run an extream hazard of fighting against God Or to reject and repel the Holy Ghost when he shall at any time be desirous to come forth by the way of the Press into the world with any new Discovery of Truth is this any thing lesse being interpreted then a fighting against God Or do they who know but in part universally or infallibly know when the spirit of truth and when the spirit of errour is desirous to come abroad into the world 8. Doth not a power of gagging the Press when men please carry a dangerous Antipathy in it to that Evangelical charge or precept imposed upon all men whereby they are commanded by God to try all things and particularly to try the spirits whether they be of God or no For if

knowledge of the truth but such who are babes or children in malice who are tractable and teachable and easie to be intreated by the truth though otherwise they be men in understanding d This is an untrue charge like unto many others in your Epistle I do not affirm or say that your Book was written by a Son of Belial but onely suggested that such a thing might possibly be and that you might be abused in it as well as my self e Whereas you seem to extenuate the crime of your falsification by saying because there was one little word SVCH omitted c. I confesse the word Such is no word great of bulk or body but it was the spirit and life of that sentence of which you make a dead corps by separating it from it and without which as specificating that assurance of the unchangeableness of Gods love of which I there speak determinately you represent me as speaking that which is further from my thoughts or sence then possibly from your own And for you to pretend that it is one little word omitted as if it were the lesse in consequence because it is little in bulk or quantity doth it not bewray your great inconsiderateness The words no and not are each of them somewhat lesse then Such yet he that shall leave them out of nine of the ten Commandments of God shall of so many holy and just Commandments of God make alike number of horrid suggestions of the Divel Besides the difference between Sibboleth and Shibboleth consisting onely in an aspiration which as Grammarians inform us is lesse then a letter is farre lesse then that between any assurance and any such assurance yet did it cost many thousand men their lives a But besides the little word SVCH you omit many others in your said Transcription viz. all these in the beginning of the period yea that which is yet more I verily beleeve which words have some considerable influence upon the sentence Yea the truth is had you put in all these and the little word SVCH too unlesse you had moreover interpreted my meaning in this word which you might and ought to have done from what I had said before and from what follows after you had not dealt Christianly or fairly in the transcription For to take a sentence out of the midst of a discourse the meaning and right understanding whereof depends upon what goeth before and what comes after is not to represent the mind or judgement of the Author in such a sentence but with ambiguity and with the greatest probability of mistake Therefore whereas in your words immediately following you go about to justifie your selves from the crime of falsification in any degree the very certain truth is that you are falsifiers in a very high degree f. g It is indeed a righteous Providence that I should accuse you of falsification I beleeve that God put it into my heart to do it for the manifesting of your unworthiness first privately unto your selves and then upon your obduration and impenitency unto the world But that I should do it upon the terms asserted by you is no Providence at all but a broad-faced untruth affirmed by you and such an affirmation from you is indeed to be admired For whether I be a falsifier or no which shall be put to the trial anon it is as certain as certainty it self and hath been already proved in the sight of the Sun and above all contradiction that you are falsifiers according to your charge Therefore not Joseph with his chastity but Josephs Mistresse with her wantonnesse is your parallel You lay claim to innocency as Saul did to obedience when the Prophet Samuel charged him notwithstanding with rebellion 1 Sam. 15. 20 23. And he that taught you to talk of admiring that which you expresse as a righteous Providence taught you to speak prophanely and not as men awfully sensible of the Majestique Holiness and power of God Book-sellers or Beacon-firers §. II. To the first of your three censures then We answer that when you relate the judgement of the reformed Churches concerning the unchangeablenesse of Gods love toward his regenerate Children a You your selfe are guilty of a most notorious falsification which your Letter tempts us b to call forgery because you forge a vile opinion and you are excellent at that kind of forgery c and then lay a bastard of your own begetting at the Churches doors and would perswade the most chast Protestants that they must father your own hard-favoured Monster Are not you ashamed to stain paper with such slanderous Cavils d Did any of those learned men against whom you write ever assert the unchangeablenesse of Gods love to Apostates to men that are never so desperately wicked and prophane in his sight though they continue never so long in their outragious wickednesse e Mr. Goodwins Animadversion II. a Here again you falsifie a fresh laying to my charge that which I know not no nor yet your selves you should have done well to have pointed at the place in my writings where I relate the judgement of the reformed Churches concerning the unchangeablenesse of Gods love towards his regenerate children For I do not remember that I have related the judgement of any of them all touching this head of Doctrine but onely of the reformed Churches of Saxony and this I relate in their own words p. 394. of my Redempt Redeemed In the same page I refer indeed the Reader to another Authour who hath made a collection of the sence and judgment of more of them whose relations and collections in this behalf if you can disprove you may do it if you please but if you discover any thing amisse in him which I presume you cannot you must have a conscience by your selves to lay it to my charge However it had been requisite for you upon such a charge as this to have directed me where I shall find the judgement of the reformed Churches in the point related in conformity to your sence and desire for I am far to seek in this that so I might have compared my report hereof with the said judgement declared and laid down by these Churches themselves For in case I should find that I had mis-reported it I should not consult your example for a justification of my error but the example of David which teacheth me to confesse my sin and to flee to the golden Altar of repentance for my sanctuary So that that most notorious falsification of which you would make me guilty is but another most notorious falsification of your own you can prove nothing of it against me b However I marvel you should say that my Letter tempts you to call it Forgery He that calls a spade a spade doth not tempt another to call an hatchet a spade c No Gentlemen as Elijah answered King Ahab who charged him with troubling Israel I have not saith the Prophet to him troubled Israel but thou

in all those particulars in which I complain of your unworthy dealings in my Animadversions upon the first Section of your Letter under the letters d e I fear you are not so much servants to the Commonwealth of learning as slaves to your own wealth and upon this account to those also whom you judge to be the Grand-masters in this Common-wealth as men that are likeliest to serve your turn and befriend you I am both able and ready thorough the grace of God to make good the Assertion you speak of not onely against you who I fear had rather trust men with your Religion then with your books but against him also in whom you so much glory yea let him take unto him Dr. Kendal and Dr. Owen the one for his right hand man and the other for his left together with a Totquot of as many as you count pillars of your cause The said Assertion then being interpreted according to the plain and best known signification of the words and phrases therein amounts to nothing more or lesse or worse then this viz. that if there were any thing to be found in the Scripture which rightly understood should represent God as unholy unjust a lover of wickednesse a respecter of persons or should charge him with any thing contumelious or reproachfull to the most transcendent excellency and perfection of his being it were a just ground to any intelligent man to demur about their authority and to bethink himself again and again whether they proceeded from God himself or no The reason of such an Assertion as this is evident and near at hand as viz. because it is not lightly incident to any intelligent mans thoughts that God should defame himself or speak any such thing of himself unto the world which should be a just ground unto men to think unworthily of him or of making him like to the vilest or worst of men Whether this be presumptuous Blasphemy or most Orthodox Doctrine let any man who in Mr. Fishers parable hath not his sences sodden into Trapezuntius his temper judge and determine I confesse you and your Tutors are somewhat the more veniable under your zeal in attempting to cavil and quarrel down such notions and sayings as that of mine misused by you For many of your opinions and Doctrines concerning God his counsels intentions and dispensations being so enormously dishonourable to him as they are and you pretending to build them on the Scriptures in case any thing found in the Scriptures of a defaming import against God were enough to shake the foundations of their authority in the minds and consciences of intelligent men you must needs fall under the condemnation not onely of men speaking most unworthily of God but of such men also who teach and tempt the most considering men and in part others also to suspect and question the Authority of the Scriptures And if the case were thus with you and them how should their Kingdome and consequently your interest therein stand You may be informed for you had need to plead information with many untruths to ease your credit a little for telling so many that Mr. Caryl stigmatized my presumptuous Blasphemy But I was never informed no not by Mr. Caryl himself though he wrote unto me about the passage that he stigmatized it for presumptuous Blasphemy no not for Blasphemy in any the lowest degree Yea when as in my Letter to him Lonely expostulated with him for stigmatizing it with a brand of ignominy in his answer he disowns any stigmatizing it at all save onely in a very qualified sence as is to be seen in the Letter it self printed verbatim at the end of these papers But whereas you affirm that in his letter to me he gave such satisfactory reasons which did effectually silence me you do your accustomed Devotions to the Goddesse Mendacina There was nothing at all in this Letter in any degree satisfactory unto me nor doth he argue the point I mean the subject matter of the passage little or much in it And so far was this Letter from effectually silencing me that my mouth hath ever since been as wide open in the defence of the truth contained in the passage as ever before and is like to be so still c Whereas in the swelling vanity of your spirits you challenge me in the Name of your two strangers Truth and Piety to print his Letters and to return an answer to them threatning me withall as if you meant to put me to the trouble before I should be aware if did it not I I must 1. Appologize for my self upon somewhat like terms with him who being conscienciously devoted to his Idol comming towards him upon an Assesback and so having occasion to bow down to it that the standers-by might not think that he worshipped the Asse said to the Beast in the Act of his Adoration Non tibi sed Religioni so being charged by the sacred Names of Truth and Piety to print Mr. Caryls Letters c. though I know no reason why I should gratifie the persons adjuring me by these Names yet for the reverence I bear to the Names themselves I shall herewith print the Letters and return an answer when either I shall see my time to do it or Mr. Caryl see his to require it But good Gentlemen you seem to threaten me with some sore trouble if I will not do as you say and this before I am aware If you could cause the great Fabrick of the whole world to fall like an old rotten House upon my head Impavidum ferient ruinae The fall should smite a dreadlesse fearlesse man There is nothing to be gained at my hand by threatnings d As for Doctor Kendal and Doctor Owen two other of your Champions their folly may look them in the face in due time Or if they shall turn their backs upon it it will present it self with never the more disadvantage unto the world The first of these you say hath charged me home to the life You are mistaken in the method of Doctor Kendals warfare he fights more by the Stratagem and go-by then by the charge Or if by charging home to the life you mean for you are wont to cant speaking great words to small purpose I acknowledge your Encomium of him And if by taxing me smartly for the passage you speak of you mean that he would very fain make somewhat of it if he knew what for the honor of his wit and the ingratiating of himself with his party I must confess that you speak the truth in this also Whereas you imperiously demand of me Why I do not answer his challenge Why do you not ask your great Champion Doctor Owen why he hath not all this while answered Mr. Horn As Charity so Discipline should begin at whome Yet I think I may in part excuse the Doctor at this turn For doubtless Mr. Horns {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Open doore is too hard

Notwithstanding I had in some particular distinct explications of my self immediatly before endeavoured to remove the stumbling-stone such as it was out of his way and had shewed him before this how he might with a very good conscience with more honour to himself have passed by that passage without lifting up his heel against it but that I want such particularity of information about the carriage of the discourse as I desire hope in due time to obtain As for him who Arch-Rabbi-like concluded at once without premises al those without exception that hold the Doctrines of general Attonement by Christ and of a possibility of a final declining in such who ever believed to be men Godlesse Christlesse Spiritlesse Gracelesse I shall at present onely advise him to lay his heart close to those two sayings of a wise man Prov. 26. 12. and Prov. 29. 20. When I shall hear that he is throughly baptized into the Spirit of these Scriptures I shall judge him a person worthy a reproof when he offends In the mean time I judge that He who told it amongst news from Heaven unto the City that Arminius his rotten posts were lately new painted together with him who not long after diurnal-wise told the same story over again to the same Audience only in a more dismal Metaphor informing them that Arminius his Ghost was lately started out of his Grave and walked neither of them medling any further with the controversies I judge I say that these are men wise in their generation and did well consider that the name of Arminius is the most forcible Engine though made of nothing but air and wind to batter the walls of those opinions which they so cordially wish in the dust and that should they have engaged any Scripture or Argument upon the designe they had run an hazard of losing all that ground or more which they had reason to hope they had won by drawing the pedigree of the said opinions though most untruely from Arminius it faring with their credulous hearers according to the Proverb The blind swallow many a fly But Sir Concerning that passage in my late Book upon the horn whereof you were pleased to tye a lock or bunch of hey by way of signal unto your friends and others to take heed of it and to keep at distance from it if my intelligence leadeth me to the right place as I suppose upon competent grounds it doth as far as I am able with the most impartial eye I have to see into it it is so far from meriting the brand of ignominy wherewith you have stigmatized it that rightly understood and considered it is as innocent and offenceless as any saying that ever fell from your own mouth in any of your Sermons The passage I presume is this page 335. of the said Book I shall recite it verbatim Yea that which is yet more I verily believe that in case any such assurance of the unchangeableness of Gods love were to be found in or could regularly be deduced from the Scriptures it were a just ground to any intelligent and considering man to question their Authority and whether they were from God or no The reason of this saying I immediately subjoyne in these words For that a God infinitely righteous and holy should irreversibly assure the immortal and undefiled inheritance of his Grace and favour unto any creature whatsoever so that though this Creature should prove never so abominable in his sight never so outragiously and desperately wicked and prophane he should not be at liberty to withhold this inheritance from him is a saying doubtless too hard for any man who rightly understands and considers the Nature of God to hear What there should be in either of these sayings so much as lyable to any suspicion of an incomportance either with reason or with truth cannot enter into my thoughts to imagine or conceive The pile of the discourse is built and I cannot but presume regularly enough upon this foundation that if any thing were found in those writings or books known by the Name of Scriptures whether in the letter of them or in any expresness of consequence from them here justified or approved of any blasphemous importance against God or any his Attributes it were a just ground at least to question whether the said writings were from God or no I suppose I shal not need to argue this principle being so full of light in it self The Holy Ghost himself teacheth us that God cannot deny himselfe a and as certain it is that he cannot blaspheme himself nor yet authorize inspire or teach any person or creature whatsoever to blaspheme him the blaspheming of himselfe being nothing else but a constructive denying of himself as is evident Therefore what book or writing soever contains any thing blasphemous against God I do not mean as simply reported but as asserted and maintained in either is not onely a just ground to question which yet is all I affirm in the point whether such a writing or book be of divine inspiration or from God or no but even positively to conclude against them that they are not So then if there be any thing dangerous or of suspicious consequence in either of the said passages it must be this that in the former of them I suppose and in the latter constructively affirm that such an unchangeablenesse of the Love of God as is mentioned in the former and described in part in the latter is of a blasphemous import and repugnant to those great Attributes of righteousness and holiness in God Though the latter of the said passages recited carrieth a sufficient light in it to satisfie any man impartially considerate concerning the truth of this assertion yet the matter being of an high and sacred importance I am willing and shall endeavour to give both unto your self and others somewhat a more full and distinct account hereof First then evident it is that that unchangeablenesse of the love of God which these passages speak of and without a supposal whereof the common Doctrine of Perseverance against which I here argue cannot be maintained in the formal and proper notion of it supposeth that if ever God once truly loveth a person it is unpossible that upon any occasions or interveniences whatsoever he should hate him afterwards Secondly Every whit as evident it is that such a supposion or notion as this supposeth that in case a person hath once or at any time truly believed suppose in his youth under which condition he must needs be beloved by God though the very next hour or day after such his believing he should fall into wayes of sin wickednesse disobedience rebellion against God and should without repentance or remorse continue in these abominations adding drunkenness to thirst from time to time for 10. 20. it may be 40. 50. years together and to his last breath yet God all this while truly loveth him and remaineth unchanged in

you have published in your own name or Licensed for others but I could quarrel with somewhat therein at as good a rate of ingenuity if I judged the ingagement worthy of me as you have done at that passage of mine Yea and wring every whit as bad blood out of the nose of it as you have forced out of mine But for oversights hard expressions or doubtful passages in other mens writings otherwise then for the necessary defence of those Truths which God hath stir'd up my Spirit to plead and protect I have neither time nor mind to take any such cognisance of them Concerning my own writings so far as I find them justifiable for matter of truth and defensible I shall God willing pro virili stand up to maintain them against all Opposition and Detraction as fast as I shall come to understand what exceptions are taken against them What shall reasonably and in a Christian manner be excepted against any thing I shall make no Apology for but with a spirit of meekness own the oversight and onely endeavor the rectifying In case unjust Opposers shall rise up too fast or prove too many in number for me I must then be content to edecimate and turne my self onely to those that are counted Pillars and leave Punies-either to share with them in such answers and satisfactions which shall be given unto them or otherwise to take their pleasure in flying upon the wings of their own wind Sir I cannot suspect a want of so much civility in you as to deny water unto those for the washing of their faces who are bemired though casually and by their friends or that the publishing of these few harmless lines in order to my purgation will be matter of offence in the least unto you Thus desiring that the Father of Lights will give both to you and me and all others that desire to serve him faithfully in the Gospel of his dear Son light and not darkness for our vision I take my leave and rest Yours with a perfect Heart to serve you in our Great Redeemer J. G. Mr. Joseph Caryl's Answer to Mr. John Goodwins Letter SIR I Suppose you Printed and Published your Book with a willingnesse that it should be read and considered by all men and knew also that your opinion therein asserted concerning Universal Redemption and falling from Grace hath been as still it is opposed by very many For my own part I plainly professe to you that I have according to my measure held forth and maintained the contrary Doctrines not onely before I saw your Book but before ever I saw your face and so I judge my self bound to do as I have oppertunity till I see ground to change my opinion which as yet I do not no not by what I have found in your book As for that particular Passage of it which you say I have stigmatiz'd with a Brand of Ignominy as also caution'd my friends about it what you mean by stigmatizing I apprehend not All that I have said of it hath been but a manifestation of my dislike of it or that it is an argument of your highest confidence that the truth in that point to which it relates is on your side Now truly Sir if you call this stigmatizing it with a Brand of Ignominy I know not how to take it off notwithstanding all that you have written in vindication of it in the Letter you were pleased to send me And whereas you intimate your purpose to Print that Letter it shall I hope be no trouble to me unlesse for your sake if you do so Onely give me leave to caution you as a friend to consider well both with your self and with your friends Whether it be so comely or you to discover such an eagernesse in this cause that you cannot contain your self from publishing in Print what is spoken in private discourse among Friends concerning this or other Passages of your Book The Lord lead us into all truth and teach us how to walk in Love Yours in the truth to serve you in all Offices of Gospel Love Joseph Caryl Post-Script 1. To be read in Page 42. line 23. after these words Mr. Horn And why do you not demand of your Committee-man George otherwise called Doctor Kendal another of your three worthies why he hath not as yet answered Mr. Baxter who in your phrase hath charged him home to the life or rather indeed to the death of those foppish opinions and conceits of his which he encounters with as much ease and with like success as the fire doth the dryed stubble Yea why doe not you ask your third Committee-man and Champion Joseph why he hath not answered the same Mr. Baxters Epistle wherein he very gravely and Christianly yet roundly and smartly enough expostulates with him for helping into the world and this with approbation and applause such a book which well deserves to be hissed out of the world with indignation Post-Script 2. To be read in Page 47. line 10. after these words So still Yea there are such things found and have been discovered by others as well as by my self especially by Mr. Baxter and Mr. Hora in the writings of the three additional members of your Committee which according to the terms of your own regulation mentioned 12. of your Letter render them signally unmeet for a superintendency over the Press Mr. Baxter well nigh all along his Reply to Mr. Kendals Digression page after page evinceth him to be a man destitute of the truth void of judgement c. in very many things delivered by him in the said Digression And for Doctor Owen Mr. Horn hath in a just volume discovered his incompetency in the same kind FINIS Faults escaped in some Copies Epist. p. 3. l. 3. r. oculos p. 4. l. 15. r. failings l. ult. r. over-easie p. 7. l. 26. r. generality Book p. 1. l. 5. r. Nathanael p. 3. l. 21. r. creature p. 5. l. 15. r. Beacon-Firers p. 8. l. 11. r. be p. 10. l. 14. r. the p. 10. l. 20. r. work p. 14. l. 2. r. into p. 20. l. 6. r. black-friar p. 20. l. 8 r. Presbiterian p. 27. in the marg. r. errorum immaculatumque p. 28. l. ult. r. Pauls p. 34. l. 3. dele p. 35. l. 14. after below r. l. 15. after strong supply p. 36. l. ult. r. warie p. 40. l. 1. r. to l. ult. for with r. of p. 41. l. 24. r. if I did it not p. 43. l. 3. r. Co-adjutor p. 44. l. 7. r. spend p. 51. l. 33. r. ingenuously p. 54. l. 5. dele the p. 70. l. 12. after less r. a Nobis fratres suff cit conscientia nostra sed propter vos etiam fama pollere debet b In snspicione Hereseos nolo quenquam esse patientem Judg. 12. 6. a Promissiones itaque illae 〈◊〉 pro statis praesenti rer●●● sunt 〈◊〉 gende a Nunc autē quia juxta sententiam Salvatoris volo operari cibum qui non perit antiquam divinorum voluminum viam sentibus virgultisque purgare Error mihi geminus infligitur corrector vitiorum falsarius dicor et errores non auferre sed serere b Ac Beatus Job qui adhuc apud Latinos jacebat in stercore et vermibus scatebat erroram integrum immacultumque gaudete a Pauca sunt enim quae proprie loquimur sc. de Deo plura non propri● sed cognoscitur quid velimus Aug. Confes. 11. c. 2. a See the 26. and last Chapter of my Redemption Redeemed a Cum et ed numero et de conditione ac differentiâ eorum qui manu-mitterentur curiose cavisset hoc queque adjecit me vinctus unquam tortusve quis ullo libertatis genere urbem adipis ceretur Sueton. Octav. §. 40. a I call your request Anti-Christian because a restraint of the Press is generally practised where Anti-Christ hath his Throne The same Engine was made use of by the late Prelacy to support their Kingdom of unrighteousness Is it me●t to bring in the methods and arrifices invented and practised by Satan for the support of his tottering State and Kingdom in the world into the Kingdom of Jesus Christ for the establishment of this as if it were not able to stand but upon Satans legs a Part. 2. p. 50. 54 a {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Eph. 4. 8. See Master Baxter Preface Apologetical pag. 6. And again in his Prologue to Mr. Kendal p. 4. a 2 Tim. 2. a Mal. 2. 17.