Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n
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A23973
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Remarks upon A letter from a gentleman in the country to his friend in London and upon a relation of some Norfolk clergy of a conference between them and some Quakers ... / by an eye and ear witness of the whole, J.A.
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J. A.
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1699
(1699)
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Wing A14; ESTC R36631
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10,410
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9
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pretended they would bring their proofs and proffer rather than go without it to pay for the transcribing it and once had directions to send to Oxborough for it and expectation given by Doctor Beckenham that they should have it but the Rector Meriton denied it and the Quakers also proffer'd over and over that if they might have such a Copy or Account they would willingly proceed to settle the Preliminaries and â—â—at in order to agree upon time and place and if there were any thing they could not stand by or make â—ood by Scripture Proof they 'd disown it and urged to the Clergy that if they were sure their Proofs â—â—ould hold they need not fear giving a Copy of their Charge nor decline another Meeting but one of the Clergy said Let it End here And is it not reasonable therefore to conclude that these Clergy-men are Conscious to themselves of the Invalidity of their pretended Proofs or shortness of making good that Charge which they would neither then or now produce them that the World might see what the Quakers were and what Sharp and industrious Men these Clergy had been to make such a discovery of them And if they now in Print had done what they could not do at West-Dereham they might not only have stop'd the Gangreen but compleated the Cure and shew'd themselves Physicians of some Value But says the Clergy p. 3. should we tell them the Names of the Books Page and Line before-hand we had deserved rather to be laugh'd at as Fools than be look'd on as Disputants I perceive they had more mind to be look'd upon as Disputants than laugh'd at as Fools and yet by the Judgment of many approved themselves more like the First than the Latter and shewed more Lightness and Prophaneness considering their Pretentions and the Place they were in by Hollowing and calling to the People to Hiss at the Quakers than their Skill in Disputing or Wisdom in Management However the Clergy seem to be Generous in that they allow the same liberty for the Quakers viz. to Charge any of the Church of England Writers with Blasphemy as they had taken against the Quakers but is it not greatly to be feared considering the difference and contentions that have been and are amongst them upon several Points as the Trinity c. that it would be very hard for Dr. Beckenham and the two other Rectors Meriton and Topcliff without the Authority of the Church or Power Ecclesiastical to disown either Dr. Sherlock or Dr. South However what the Quakers insisted upon considering their Generous offer to meet when they had an account of the Authors Books and Pages as aforesaid and had agreed upon time and place must by fair and reasonable Men be accounted both reasonable and fair and the contrary in the Clergy in denying it I also observe in page 5. They say they i. e. the Quakers told us Blasphemy against God was the Sin against the Holy Ghost because the Holy Ghost was God Rem And I pray do not these learned Rectors say the same If not may not the Quakers Charge them with Blasphemy as one of the Quakers did at West-Dereham And may they not justly be charged with Blasphemy against God and Jesus Christ c. in that they Charge the Quakers and positively assert that the Light within as taught by them exposes them to Blasphemy against God and Blasphemy against Jesus Christ If that Light be God and Jesus Christ For a Quaker there strenuously urged that they taught believed in or expected Salvation by no other than by Him that Word that was in the beginning with God and was God in whom was Life and the Life was the Light of Men c. And if so that any say they that assert this Light which is the Life of that Word that was God and so taught exposes them that so teach and believe to Blasphemy against God and Christ and many other Blasphemies surely they which so assert as these Clergy have must be Blasphemers against God c. who is this Word Light and Life And the Quakers did not only assert this but did positively deny all the Charges which was brought and exhibited against them by the Clergy which Charges the Clergy acknowledge was not prov'd against them as before observed and I heard a Quaker then and there make Confession that they believed in God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth and in Jesus Christ his Son born of the Virgin Mary that appeared in the World in the Body prepared for him wrought Miracles Suffered and Dyed for our Sins and Rose again for our Justification and believed that Remission of Sins was through Faith in his Blood and declared they believed in the Holy Spirit and owned the Three that bear Record in Heaven the Father the Word and the Spirit and that these Three are One and that they owned the holy Scriptures of Truth and believed they were given forth by Divine Inspiration and were profitable for Doctrine Reproof and Correction and were able to make the Man of God Wise to Salvation through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and that they did esteem the Bible above all other Books and accounted it the most Excellent in all the World and could be glad People did spend more of their time in Reading of it And that they owned Magistracy according to Scripture and accounted it an Ordinance of God for the Punishing them that do Evil and Praise of them that do Well And that they owned the Ordinances of Jesus Christ and his Baptism which is truly Essential unto Salvation and the Supper of the Lord. And in the 1st Paper of the Quakers unto the Clergy which they call a Copy of the Quaker's Challenge sent unto Henry Meriton John Meriton Lawrence Parke they write to them thus If you think you have Matter to Charge us withal let us have your Charge under your own Hands c. ' This say they is not from any Consciousness to our selves of holding any Errors but if you think it is you may if you please i. e. Charge them Rem Now one of the Quakers from hence urged it could be no Challenge but a Proposal left to them if they thought they had Matter to Charge them they might and said the Quakers you have thought your have Matter and have charged us and said your Measures are fixt and we may chuse whether we will meet you upon the terms resolved on or no See your last Paper which is concluded thus from those that are resolved to continue your real Friends whether you will or not And notwithstanding their resolute friendship allowed not the Quakers that provision they reserved in the first Paper viz. the common Priviledges to such occasions belonging which is a Mutual agreement of time place and method and to have an account of the Books Authors and Pages when they agreed on that method of Charging I shall now make a few Remarks on the Certificate
which these Learned Divines have obtained as they say of several Principal Inhabitants within the Parish of West-Dereham and other adjacent Parishes to obviate the false Reports given out by the Quakers wherewith they endeavoured to make the World believe that the late Norfolk Challenge was not made by them to the Clergy of the Church of England which is Signed by Eighteen It begins thus viz. The Parish of West-Dereham of Norfolk having in it several Divisions and Sectaries and but an exceeding Small Salary for a Minister discouraged most Men from Supplying the Cure Rem Two things are here Assigned for discouragement the smallness of the Salary and having several Sectaries So where there is most Need there is least Care if Money be wanting it makes me think of the Old Proverb No Penny No Pater Noster No Money no Care or Cure of Souls will not this verifie the Proverb Money answers all things Therefore say these Certifiers By reason whereof it was seldom well Supply'd for any long time together and the greatest part of the People in danger of falling to the Quakers Rem The Difference between Preaching Freely for the Good of Souls and for a Salary or Forced Maintenance which these Men herein from Experience assign saying the Reason of their being not well Supply'd with a Preacher was the Smallness of their Pay which notwithstanding the present Minister Lawrence Park coming it 's like from the North where the Benefices are often smaller and the People poor at the Request of some principal Men of the Parish entered upon the Cure in June 1691. Against whom say the Certifiers the Quakers have been in a continual Rage for being disappointed of their Prey Such Instances as at present occur to our Minds are these viz. The Wife of one Beckett a Quaker gave her self the trouble of going Three Miles to the Minister's House on purpose to vex him with Quakerly Questions in a quibling way upon Ascention-Day Morning 1695. Rem This is brought as an Instance to prove the Quakers continual Rage for being disappointed of their Prey 2. To prove they were the Challengers to the late Dispute the 8th of December 1698. Now what pray could this poor Woman get of this Laborious Parson unless by asking him such Questions she should bereave him of that he seems but little freighted with or vex him because she brought him nothing will such Stories or Parsons ever bring Credit to the Church or Cure Souls Or doth this bespeak he had any Regard to the Doctrine which St. Paul taught in Meekness to Instruct But this is also brought to prove the Quakers were the Challengers to the late Conference and yet the Quakers first Letters relating thereto was not till the 7th of September 1698. and this Woman went to the Parson in 1695. on purpose to vex him on Ascention-Day with Quakerly Questions as the Certifiers say I wonder what they were that grieved him yet why should I wonder seeing according to the Certificate of these principal Inhabitants his Family can Witness the Truth of this as also Mrs. Bishop a principal Woman of the Town of Barton who happened to be with the Minister then Surely these must needs be some Pusling Questions that did so sorely Vex him But as Solomon says of the Fool had he kept Silent he had been counted Wise But for a Man and a Minister to be so Vext with a Woman's Quakerly Question shews great Folly as it doth Weakness for these Rectors or Divines to Print such poor Stuff But the Certifiers go on saying We of this Parish and divers other Persons of Neighbouring Parishes too do very well remember that Beckett the Husband himself watch'd our Minister in a Lane not far from the Church lined on both sides with People to Dispute when his Spirits were exhausted with Preaching and his Strength weakned by performing the Duty of the Day Rem This is brought as another Proof that the Quakers were the Challengers to the Dispute because this poor Quaker spoke to the Parson in a Lane surely it 's a great Vexation to this Man to be spoken to But if the Woman had not gone after this Shepherd and the Man met with him in a Lane it 's greatly to be questioned whether he would have sought them though peradventure he might have sent for the Tythe Eggs Piggs or Geese for is it not that and the Rewards that he may expect from the principal inhabitants that Requested him to take the Cure upon him which incouraged him to Supply it and mind more than his Flock or to answer any Quakerly Questions altho' they go Three Miles to seek their Shepherd and ask them But there is another Instance to prove the Challenge was made by the Quakers because one Philips a Quaker went above Four Months before the Challenge was made as these Certifiers declare viz. One Phillips a Quaker went to disturb our Minister at his own House one Monday in May last to Challenge him to a Dispute with the Quakers Rem It 's well it was not on Saturday for that might prevented his next Days Work But how do these principal Inhabitants of several Parishes know that Phillips the Quaker did go to disturb their Minister c. did they see him or hear him do it or did their Minister tell them so and therefore they Certifie on his Say so Surely such doings will never Redound to these Clergy-Mens Credit But they still Certifie to one Mason and Beckett's setting up a Conventicle contrary to Law in an Unlicenced Barn and they farther Certifie for no other Cause but preserving his Sheep from being devoured by the Wolves gave our Ministers and Vs great occasion to dread an Apostacy of the People from the Christian Faith This and nothing but this made Vs and our Ministers willing to permit Mr. Bugg among them to try if he could Conjure down this busie Spirit which possesses the Quakers and is so troublesome to us So that whatever the Quakers may pretend to the contrary we verily believe they are the Challengers and none but they And had the Ministers been permitted to make out their Charge Quakerism in those parts would have received a mortal Stroke The Truth of all which is Certified by us viz. William Beena William Young Richard Taylor George Archer John Smith John Wright Thomas Wade Thomas Complin John Goddard Thomas Warde Thomas Hubbard William Prick Caleb Mayor Grace Lampson Mary Park Bartholomew Ramsey Samuel Chise William Sargison Rem First How doth this prove that the Quakers were the Challengers 2d What proof hath L. Park made of his Care to preserve his Sheep from the Wolves or the People from an Apostacy so mightily dreaded Did he go from House to House and in Meekness Instruct or by Good Life Sound Doctrine and the holy Scripture Convince any of their Errors Where are the Fruits of his Labours and Seals of his Ministry What must demonstrate him to be a Minister of Christ for he nor none of the Managers when urged to it by the Quakers at West-Dereham would undertake to prove themselves such Or must his being vexed with the Woman for asking him Questions be the proof or his sending for Mr. Bugg that is Apostatized from the Quakers or Permitting him to come And by the way let me Remark that word Permitting for that shews neither their Ministers or They cared much for him yet were willing to Permit him to come among his Sheep Indeed it was a hazard for one Scabby Sheep is apt to spoil a whole Flock yet if Mr. Bugg could Conjure down this busie Spirit which so vext this poor Parson he was willing to suffer a Trial finding his own Ability was not sufficient and the People also did Permit which shews this Mr. Bugg hath but little Credit whatever he is where he is known Yet these Subscribers declare their Belief that the Quakers were the Challengers and none but they But this may be from the perswasion of the Parsons and knowledge of their Timorousness and Inabilities who declared at West-Dereham it could not be expected that they Country Parsons should engage with the London Disputants Yet if these noted Ministers had made out the Charge Quakerism would have received a mortal Stroke by which they grant it hath not And truly I must Conclude that these kind of Proceedings and manner of Management is never like to be to the Reputation of the Church of England or the Ministers of it And therefore I am persuaded the Bishop of Norwich and the moderate Church-men will with me Conclude It 's best for all to Love God and Live well and then we shall Love one another and do well and by well doing put to Silence the Ignorance of Foolish Men and this becomes Protestants of all sorts and not to Quarrel one with another Ira odium Generat Concordia nutrit amorem FINIS