in providing for that which seems to have been too long neglected a more regular Church-way of Communion and worship that which the Apostle calls for and mindes the scattered Hebrews of Not forsaking the assembling of our selves together as the manner of some is Heb. 10. ver 25. as the manner of too many among us is who are either carelesse of meeting at all for divine worship or indifferent where or with whom they meet nothing scrupling that promiscuous Communion which is yet seen in too many places and should I confesse be provided against If any ask how how but by the power of the Keyes which the Sword of violence cannot cut in sunder nor the Church loose unlesse they that hold them cast them away The use of that power is to separate or take forth the pretious from the vile Jer. 15.19 the tender Sheep from the violent Goats the peaceable Christian from the factious Schismatick And he that is filthy let him be filthy still Revel 22. and he that will contemn let him mock on still but God is not mocked And were this done as it might be done according to the present distress of these Times there would be no occasion for the Adversaries to mock or for other to complain as the Prophet Isa in the behalf of Jerusalem ch 31.18 There is none to guide her of all the Sons whom she hath brought forth neither is there any that taketh her by the hand of all the Sons that she hath brought up But the Adversaries that have afflicted her and said to her Bow down that we may go over would for their mocking have cause to fear what the Lord threatens at the 23 ver I will put the cup of trembling into their hand And now Good Reader if thou beest or wouldst shew thy self a good Church-man that is a good Christian abhorring Idols and hating to commit Sacrilege desiring to keep thy self pure from Superstition in divine worship and from Faction and Schism in Church-Communion Beware then of false Teachers Beware of the Concision Phil. 3.2 both New and Old Suffer not thy self to be cut off from thy former Communion either by any new Sect or by the cunning of any Romish perswasion Let not these troublesome Times which are for thy tryall and manifesting of what is approved in thee be unto thee an occasion of falling God whom thou servest in the spirit is able to make thee stand To his grace I commend thee HEN FERNA Of the Division between the English Church and Romish upon the Reformation IT cannot be denied that every Christian is bound to learn and know upon the best Evidence he can what it is that God will have him believe to Salvation and how he will be worshipped by him To this he stands obliged both by the end of his hope Salvation if he will attain to that and by his Vow at his entrance into Christianity the promise he made to Believe and Doe all c. Now when differences are among Christians about Faith and Worship we are more concerned to use care and diligence in seeking after the Truth not to follow all Guides or take all on Trust but as S. Jude bids us Earnestly to contend for the Faith once delivered Jude ver 3. Many years have we contended with the Church of Rome about the Faith once delivered impleading her of innovating in Belief and Worship to the introducing of grosse Errors and Superstitions And still we have more cause to contend with them of that Church because more busie now in working upon the distempers of the Times and in drawing away some unwary and unstable Protestants by plausible pretences of seeming advantage to the Romish Church in comparison of the now disturbed condition of the Church of England Our work is therefore to strive with them not out of the spirit of contention to the multiplying of Controversies or enlarging the Rout which God knows is too wide already but only to the necessary defence of our selves our Faith and Worship of which we are alwaies ready to give an account And as to the charging of them however they deal with us we are willing to excuse in them what is excusable Yet so as to make appear what is deceitfull in their general plausible pretences and what is hurtful or destructive to the Catholick Faith in their particular Doctrines This is certain and not to be denied that a Doctrine of Faith was delivered the true Profession of which makes or constitutes a Church also that there is and will be to the Worlds End must not be taken as the Romanists doe as if one and the same Church of one denomination as Roman or Ephesian or English should doe it or as if those Pastors which are chief in place should doe it but that it shall be done in some part or other of the Catholick Church and by such of the Pastors in the Catholick Church as it pleases God to use for the preservation of his Truth a Church in which and by which as the Pillar of Truth that doctrine shall be preserved and upheld and in that Church a succession of Pastors and Teachers to deliver down that Doctrine of Faith once delivered by our Lord and his Apostles The Romanist when he is to contend for his faith is not willing to come to the Trial of particular Doctrines but rather staies in the Generalls of a Church a visible succession and the like seeking by these which make a plausible noise to the Unwarie to prove the continuation of the Doctrine rather than to defend his Church by the Doctrine she delivers and to make a clamour of Division and Schisme odious Names rather than to examine upon due consideration of that purity of Faith and Worship which every Church ought to hold where the cause is and whose the fault that we now stand divided Wee begin with the Generalls Where upon the seeming advantage of the former pretences they charge us with setting up a New Church when we reformed and as consequent to that with Schisme or breach of Communion We deny that we set up a New Church or made a Schisme or that we stand guilty of this breach of Communion CHAP. I. We set not up a new Church but were the same Christian Church before and after the Reformation IN order to the first they usually put the question Where was your Church before Luther A Question that carries a charge very plausible to the unlearned who cannot distinguish between the face and the body or rather soul of a Church between that which makes a Church and that which makes it such a Church We answer therefore our Church was there where now it is and where it alwaies was the same Christian Church as before the Reformation having lost nothing that made it so But say they The Church in England before the Reformation was their Church holding and practising what they did Be it so that the Church of England generally
not leave men to themselves but as Governours of the Church doe by power of the Keyes judge and bind the Gainsayers and cast the Refractory out of their Communion So then the Guides of the Church have the power of Publike Judgement to judge and define for others in matters of faith and worship and power of Iurisdiction to judge censure and cast out the disobedient and to private men is lest onely the Iudgement of discretion without which they cannot come to beleeve or serve God as they ought with reasonable service Rom. 12.1 CHAP. IX Of dissenting from the publike Judgement NOw for the using their reason and judgement against the Church or their dissenting from the definitions and practise of it we give no encouragement to that We 1. teach all Inferiours whether People or Priests when they finde cause of doubt or question against such definitions or practise to mistrust their owne reason and rather relye upon the publick Judgment than their own in every doubtfull case 2. That they which doubt still seek refolution and satisfaction from their Superiours modestly propounding their doubts and reasons and conscionably using all means to rectifie their judgment and satisfie their Conscience 3. If they cannot find satisfaction so as inwardly to acquiesce yet to yeeld external obedience peaceable subjection according as the condition of the matter questioned will bear In a word we require all that submission of judgement and outward compliance that may be due to an Authority not infallible yet guiding others by an infallible Rule and most highly concerned to guide them accordingly as being answerable for their Soules 4. We tell them the danger of gainsaying that they are to answer it to God and his Church That if they cannot approve the reason of their dissenting to the judgement of the Church they must expect to undergoe the Censures of it For the Church standing so obliged to answer for Souls and to preserve Peace and Unity and having therefore the advantage of Authority and publick judgement above all private persons it is also most reasonable it should have the advantage in the contestation with private persons and in the issue of such a businesse to proceed according to its own judgement and use the power it has against those that stand out And then is there a further answering it to God Thus it stands between every Particular Church and the Members of it betweene Superiours and Inferiours in it and in some proportion between every particular or National Church and the Catholick Church in receiving and holding the Definitions of Generall Councils and the Generall Practise of the Church Tough here a Nationall Church hath the advantage above private persons in the point of Judgement and dissenting Yet where it does dissent from other Churches generally erring it arises first from the use of reason and judgement in private persons discovering the errours for some in all Reformations must speak first and propounding them which being approved by the Judgement of that Church the Reformation follows as an Act of publick Judgement or as an Act of a National Church which though inferiour to the Catholick yet hath it judgement within it selfe for the receiving and holding the Definitions and Practises of the Church-Generall and may have possibly just cause of dissenting and reforming and can doe it regularly according to the way of the Church by Provinciall Synods which private persons dissenting from her cannot doe And this is considerable in the English Reformation which as it was upon publick Judgement of a Nationall Church in Provinciall Synods so will it not prove a dissenting from the Catholike Church or definit ons of true Generall Councils but of that more below when we come to triall by Antiquity And of this respect or submission due from every Particular Church to the General as it concernes the Act of this Nationall Church in the Reformation more largely in the first Chapter of my later Book For the present we are to speak of the possibility of dissent of Inferiours from Superiours and the use of reason and judgement necessary to it CHAP. X. Possibility of just dissenting THe submission and obedience spoken of as due to Superiours and their Judgement ought to take place in all cases where there is not something clearly against them that confessedly excels the Authority and Judgement of the present Governours as evidence of Scripture demonstration of reason and a conformable consent of Primitive Times the pure Ages of the Church Now that such a case or such a cause of using private judgement even to a dissenting from the publike may happen Reason and Experience tells us Because it is possible that such as have chief place in the publike Judgement National or General may neglect their duty at least the greater number of them to the overbearing of the lesse and through prejudice of Faction or other wordly respects may faile in determining and propounding the Truth For the promise of guiding them is conditional upon performing duty and that is not alwaies certaine in the greater part to the imposing of false Belief and false Worship So that it comes to be Error manifestus appearing so to be both by the Word of God and the conformable beliefe and practise of the firster Ages of the Church Here is place for Reason and Judgement of Inferiours to dissent upon such Evidence after modest proposall and demonstration of the Errour And to this in part accords the concession of Bell. lib. 2. de Concil Inferiours may not judge whether their Superiours have lawfully proceeded nisi manifestissimè constet intolerabilem errorem committi Now when I speak of private Judgement dissenting from the publick Judgement or generall practises of the Church and of the preservation of Truth and the Faith thereby I doe not speak of the Reason or Judgement of the People or Laity divided from all their Guides and Pastors but I include these who of what ranke soever dissenting from the publick either definition or practise are as men of private judgement in such a case These I say I alwayes include in such a just dissenting or falling off from any erroneous belief or practise prevailing in the Church For it cannot be imagined that God who promised to be with them and guide them should take away his Truth from all the Guides and Pastors of his Church and preserve it by the Judgement and Conscience of Lay people but that still however they which have chiefe place in the Church prove corrupt some Guides and Pastors though of lesse number and place shall be they that shall detect the prevailing Errours and preserve the Truth and this by due use of Reason and private Judgement Experience also tels us what they have proved that have been in chiefe place that have sate in Moses Chair and in St. Peters how many Hereticks at severall times among the Popes how a whole succession of Monsters through the tenth Age of which Bellarmine
an Act or Virtue in Peter or not rather taken for that Catholike truth believed and confessed by Peter Peters confession of that Faith was no question the cause that our Saviour bestowed something on him at that time but that on which Christ sayes there He will build his Church was Peters Confession i. e. the Faith or Truth confessed by him and so its plaine the Fathers tooke it for they opposed this Faith or Confession as the Cardinal acknowledges against the Arrians That Christ was the Sonne of the living God Bell. applyes the promise following I will give thee the Keys c. to this busines of the One visible Interpreter or Judge and will have whatsoever thou loosest to signifie not onely the relaxation of sins and their censures but nodos omnes legum dogmatum the dispensing with the tyes of Laws and the explicating all the doubts and difficulties of Doctrine and Controversie lib. 3. de verbo Dei cap. 5. And this is barely said by him without further proof Now when this promise of the Keyes is applyed to judgement about sinnes and offences we know what binding is as well as loosing but when it is thus stretched to universall judgement in the interpretation of Scripture defining points of faith dispensing with Lawes we cannot tell unlesse we thus inferre that as loosing her with Bell. is to explicate Scripture so binding must be the obscuring or involving the sense of it if loosing be againe the power of dispensing with Lawes which binde men as in point of marriage or the like then of binding must be the forbidding of what God has made lawfull as for Clergy to marry or what he has commanded as people to receive the Sacrament in both kindes And the Pope it seems by vertue of this promise or power of Keyes may thus loose and binde and not erre yet these are their chiefe places of Scripture Now let us come to their Reasons First is from Gods providence who was not ignorant how many difficulties and controversies would arise about the faith and therefore would no doubt appoint such a Judge Answ This is to measure the wisdome of God by the modell of our Reason but the same reason may also tell us it would have been more convenient for the Church to have had such an Infallible Judge or Interpreter in every Nation than one for the whole Church which was to be spread over all the Earth yea reason may further tell us it had been suitable to his providence expresly to have told us who that Infallible Judge was and where we should finde him And it cannot be imagined in reason but he would have done it had he appointed any such for he was not ignorant that many the greatest controversies would be about this Judge He tells us plainly There must be Heresies and the end wherefore that they which are approved may be manifest 1 Cor. 11. but not appointing withall this remedy of an Infallible Judge we must think it is that approved faith may be of more price and worth gained with more earnest enquirie and diligence in searching the Scripture using the like means so also kept and held with greater care and watchfulnesse all which would have faln and grown remisse in the hearts of men if to trust all their belief upon an Infallible Guide without any further enquitie CHAP. XXVIII Of certainty of belief and whether they or we have better means for it THe Second reason is from certainty of belief which they say the Protestants cannot have for want of such Infallibility but we are certain saith Bell in his Proposition of Faith above-mentioned § 27. that this or that is revealed in Scripture because of the Testimony of the Church Councel or Pope which cannot erre Now would I ask first whether they believe that Christ is the Son of God Saviour of the world that He suffered and now sits at the right hand of God or the like because the Church testifies it to be revealed in Scripture or because they see it evidently there themselves If they say because the Church testifies it then it seems they cannot which is false or may not which is worse believe God immediately when he speaks as plain as the Church can If they say because they see it evidently there then have they two formall reasons of their belief One the immediate evidence of Scripture The other the Testimony of the Church And if they can believe upon that immediate evidence or light of Scripture then so may we also And so we doe not excluding the light which the Church gives to the Scripture where it needs which light is not to us the reason of believing what we believe but a means and help to see that which is contained in Scripture and make it more evident to us Again I would ask how they believe it to be revealed in Scripture that the Church is Infallible because of the Testimony of the Church No that they cannot say here but must alledge for it plain Scripture apert as promissiones clear promises as Bellar called them and must allow men the use of their reason judgment upon the evidence of them Well if they may believe that great point of the Infallibility of their Church upon immediate evidence of Scripture why may not we believe other points so too or why doe they condemn the Protestants for believing every point of Religion upon the same ground on which they themselves lay all their faith at once for they believe the Churches Infallibility revealed in Scripture because they see it as they say plainly promised there Now if they believing the Infallibility of their Church upon immediate evidence of Scripture can have certainty of belief why cannot we have like certainty upon the like evidence if they cannot have certainty in that particular then can they not have any certainty in any thing else which they believe upon that belief of an Infallibility in their Church Onely this they get by it and must answer for it one day that believing all things else upon the supposed Infallibility of their Church they are made to believe many things to be revealed in Scripture and to be the will of God which are not yea to believe contrary to that which is revealed as the half communion for the people Again they that understood and believed what the Apostles preached and wrote to them did it without the externall means of an Infallible Interpreter upon the evidence of what was spoken or written and therefore so may we Now to say They that spoke and wrote were Infallible and the other knew it to be so is no more than what we say Scripture is Infallible that speaks to us the same which they spoke and wrote and therefore we way as well understand and believe it upon the same evidence We doe not here as I insinuated before exclude the exterior helps means which God has appointed for interpreting and
held and practised so yet may it remain the same Christian Church when it ceased to hold and practice so For we may likewise put the Question to them Where was your Church for divers Ages of the Primitive and first Times They will answer where it is now at Rome and elsewhere But we say that was our Church holding and practising for the main as we For where was there for those firster Ages a Romish Church holding and delivering the Canon of the Scripture as they doe now or pretending to an Infallibility as now or challenging Vniversal subjection as now where was there a Romish Church for 500 years that held Purgatory a point of Faith that taught Invocation of Saints for Catholick doctrine or that practised it in the publick Liturgie for about that time or that taught or practised Image-worship for a longer time or where was a Roman Church that taught and enjoyned Communion under one kinde for a 1000 years This is most notorious to them that are but reasonably acquainted with Antiquity Nor is Cardinal Peron's 18 cap. lib. 1. against the King touching the Agreement of the Antient and Modern Church any proof against it but a flourish only Now if they notwithstanding these and many other errors and corruptions by degrees crept in upon that Church will say Their Church is still the same with the antient Roman Church they must give us leave to say with more reason We notwithstanding we have cast off those corruptions are the same Christian Church yea and say it with more truth and advantage in as much as that which made the Romish or English Church before the Reformation to be a Church we have retained without the accrewing corruptions and so much more like the Church which was at Rome and in England in the first and purer Ages We say therefore we are the same Christian Church having lost nothing that made us so but only cast off many things that endangered our being so viz those many errors superstitions that tended to the destruction of that Christian faith which made us a Church As a man recovered from some pestilential or dangerous disease is the same man that before has lost nothing that made him so only now freed from the corruption that endangered his being so We set up then no new Church but reformed that which was freeing it from former corruptions And this makes a different Church but not a New Church a different Church I say according to accidental differences by which the same body may differ from it self at several times and the parts of the same body from one another at the same time so one Church may differ from it self at several times from other Churches yet they and it be parts of the Catholick Church but not according to Essential differences which constitute a Church as part of the Catholick and make it differ from another that is not so The English Church differed from it self as before and after Reformation yet the same Christian Church only before it had a Romish face and garb and apparel suitable and a body full of spots and sores After it appeared otherwise yet still the same body the same Church not lost any thing of that which made it so but only cast off accessory accidental corruptions For thus it stood between the Church of Rome and the Church of England before the Reformation They were both parts of the Catholick Church both built upon the same foundation that Catholick Faith which had been delivered down in all Ages that into which they and we are Baptized into they not yet daring to baptize into any points of their new faith that which they and we yet agree in which makes them a Church and part of the Catholick because they retaine that Faith still though clogged with many dangerous errors and superstitions in belief and practice While the Church of England was in Communion with them it also admitted of many superstructures Hay stubble and worse Errors superstitions which by degrees crept upon the Foundation and passe at this day in the Church of Rome to the great abuse of poor Christian Souls as Catholick Faith The work of Reformation was to retain the foundation and whatever was Christian and Catholick only to throw off the superstructures that burdened and shaked it These errors and superstructures after they appeared were complained of in all Ages by many that still held Communion with the Romish Church and History also assures us of many in several Ages that did actually cast them off and suffered themselves to be put out of the Romish Communion rather than admit of them and how many thousands more must we suppose to have been not recorded when 7000 were in Israel not so much as known to Eliah This we note not as if wee were bound to seek the Church only in those Reformers which were of a divided communion from Rome or to deny the Church to be in those of the Romish Communion but to shew that however those errors were for some Ages delivered as Catholick Doctrine by the greater and more prevailing party in that Church yet were they not held for such by many that continued in that communion and rejected actually by many thousands besides CHAP. II. The demand of Professors in all Ages We can shew it better than they WHen therefore they call upon us to name Professors of the Protestant faith in all Ages though it belongs to them rather to shew the Professors of their faith in all Ages their part being the affirmative asserting what we deny and it be a thing they are not able to doe for the five first and best ages as was above insinuated yet we answer them If by such Professors they mean those that held a distinct communion from the Roman Church it is not necessary to name such because the faith was preserved still in that Communion though with a great mixture of errors yet after those errors and corruptions grew to a height we can give examples in all Ages after of such Protestors against them divided from the Romish Communion and persecuted because of them and more abundant examples happily of such we might have had but that little is come down to us of those poor Christians beside what hath come from or through the hands of their professed Enemies Now in those examples we have so many instances not of new Churches set up but of the former reformed and representations of the Catholick Church in some part more pure in some part and that generally the greater more unsound First it is not necessary there should be such so professing in all points as we doe For here is a latitude of Truth and several degrees of Purity within which God is pleased to preserve his Church as both Reason and Experience demonstrate 2. There might be such so professing though not so visible and known as to be recorded 3. There were such so farre as the
circumstantials and matters enjoyned as of Order and to have as apparent evidence for that conviction as Gods Word gives them for obedience to their lawfull Governours 3. Their pretending to be convinced in their judgement hinders not the Church of which they were members to use her own judgement and accordingly to proceed by censure and excommunication as iâ— said above cap. 9. And hereby was this Church held together in Unity no Sect or Heresie breaking forth which was not presently crushed till force of Arms bore down the free use of Ecclesiastick Authority and emboldened men to contemn it If therefore Sectaries shall say to us you allow us to use our Reason and Judgment in what you teach us True say we for your own satisfaction but not to abuse it against the Church But we doe not say they abuse it but have consulted our Guides and used all meanes we can for satisfaction We tell them you must bring evident Scripture and Demonstration against publick Authority of the Church having modestly propounded it attend the judgement thereof to which if you cannot assent inwardly yet yeild an exâ—erhal peaceable subjection so far as the matter questioned is capable of it which I adde because the matter questioned may be not so much in belief and opinion as in worship and external practise For that must necessarily discover it self and if it be such in any Church that a man cannot in conscience comply with and therefore cannot yeild external subjection so far as to doe or perform the same worship or practice yet ought he still to yeild a peaceable subjection in not resisting or reviling but quietly suffering if need be for the same under Authority But you that dissent from the Church of England have no such cause for any thing belonging to the substance of Worship And as for Circumstantials and matters of Order ye ought to shew as direct Scripture against the particulars as that which commands you to obey them which are over you And if your mis-informed conscience bade you forbear to submit to the doing of things enjoyned yet should you have had so much conscience of the expresse precept commanding obedience to Superiours as to forbear resistance and force and to have rather quietly and peaceably suffered under the censures of the Church and power of Authority set over you and you cannot but think it reasonable that the Church which is entrusted with others as well as you and hath the advantage of Authority and publick judgement should upon the not-appearing of your pretended evidence maintaine her Judgement and Authority and proceed against you as the preservation of Peace and Unity requires And thinke not because you are allowed to use your Reason and Understanding in order to your beleeving and reasonable serving of God you are therefore allowed to use force in order to the maintaining of your dissent from and disobedience to Authority For that God whose Truth and Service ye so much pretend is the God of Order and Peace 1 Cor. 14.33 not the Author of Confusion such as your violence has wrought in this Church and Land No other meanes or remedy has the Church to preserve Unity than by demonstrating the Truth to every mans conscience and censuring or casting out the Refractory Nor other feare can she cast upon her children to keep them in obedience than the losse of her Communion and their Answering it to God Nor was there any other Remedy in the Antient Church while destitute of help from the Secular power I meane no other Remedy proper to the society of the Church to keep men in her Communion CHAP. XIV Their vain pretence of Infallibility HEre the Romanists lay hold on a seeming advantage by pretence of an Infallible guidance in their Church telling their Proselytes that the Protestants acknowledge their Church fallible in her Proposals and therefore must leave men to their own reason and judgement but our Church is infallible in her Definitions How we Protestants leave men the use of their Reason and Judgement rather than leave them to their Reason Judgement has been shewn already and to the Romish pretence of Infallible guidance we say still could it be made good there would be no more to doe but every man upon understanding the terms and sense of her Definitions to submit his Reason and Judgement without farther enquiry how consonant they are to Gods revealed will and what warrant he has from thence to assent and believe them But here 's the weaknesse and vanity of that pretence This Infallibility which is pretended as the ground of all their belief has no ground it selfe to be believed * See below Chap. 27. c. as we shew by many most evident arguments and that which is alledged to take away mens Reason and Judgement must allow every man his Reason and Judgment in the examining of what is brought to prove it as was shewn above Chap. 11. c. Whereupon it will be harder to make men believe that pretence of Infallibility than to believe the proposals of Truth from Guides that pretend not to it but onely to the demonstration of that Truth by an Infallible Rule Hence it is easie to see which is more reasonable and likely to keep men in obedience to the Church Open and plaine dealing with them in the businesse of their salvation or false pretences The demonstration of Truth to every mans conscience or the Imperious dominion over other mens faith and consciences under pretence of Infallibility We say to men If you will be with us you shall see what you doe we require your obedience to what we demonstrate to be Gods will for you to believe and doe yet know your salvation is concerned in such obedience and be it at your utmost peril to gainsay The Church of Rome saith to men If you will come to me you must put out your Eyes resign up your Reason and Understanding and with implicite Faith give absolute submission and obedience to my Definitions CHAP. XV. Dividing from the Roman Church is not a dividing from the Catholike ANother of their maine Objections upon our division from them is That whatever the Doctrine or Faith be which we retained we divided from the whole Catholike Church holding Communion with no part of it To the same purpose is that which Cardinal Perron in his Letter to M. Casaubon and in his first book against the Kings Letter alledgeth That to be Catholike and avoid the note of Schism is not sufficient to hold the same Faith with the Catholike Church for so did the Donatists but to hold Communion also with it which the Donatists not doing were Schismaticks And in like manner he would conclude us to be Our Answer in generall is briefly this That we did not divide from the Catholike Church and that to a Communion with it is not required a full agreement in belief and practise with other parts of it No nor an actual Communion
clearing the Scriptures such as definitions of Councels the judgment and practice of Primitive Ages the skill and labour of the present Guides of the Church which make for the clearing and evidencing of that which is contained in Scripture but upon the evidence of that or manifestation of the truth out of that is the stay or last resolution of our Faith Waldensis a learned writer in the Church of Rome many years agoe with divers others doe well apply that of the Samaritans to the Wowan Now we believe for we have heard him our selves Joh. 4.42 unto this last resolution of Faith beginning in the Testimony of the Church as the first motive but ending and staying upon Scripture As they were first moved and brought to Christ upon the Womans saying but believed indeed when they heard him themselves So the saying and judgment of the Church at our first coming and after is a great motive and light to us but then indeed we believe when we hear him our selves when we hear him speak thus and thus to us in Scripture Now he that upon carefull and impartiall using the means God has appointed does search for the Truth shall finde what he seeks or not erre inpardonably whereas the Romanist receiving all upon a supposed infallible Testimony seeks no further comes not to audivimus ipsi we have heard him our selves blindly casts his faith upon a false ground and so is led to believe as I said many things as revealed of God which are not and sometimes the contrary to what is revealed Their third Reason is from pretence of Unity which they say is preserved amongst them by this means but lost among the Protestants for want of it and they instance in the breaches and confusions of these our Times Answ We had the same means for Unity which the Antient Church had as was said above ch 13. and so long as we could freely use them having the secular power to friend heresie and schisme was prevented and Unity preserved but when the sword of violence prevailed no marvail if Licentiousnesse grew bold and cast off the cords of obedience Ecclesiastical as well as Civil And we see this pretended Infallibility could not keep Burbon and his Army in order but that they sacked Rome made the Pope their prisoner and forced him to unworthy conditions And we read that Hereticks of old as Arrians and others when they had the Emperours favour bore down all before them so that this means of Infallibility either could not keep them from breaking out and prevailing or else which indeed is the truth there was no such belief of an Infallibility in the Church of Rome in those better Ages nor was it ever made use of or alledged against Hereticks to repress them The judgment indeed of the Bishops of Rome was often alledged as was also the judgment of other Churches and famous Bishops but this without implying an Infallibity in judging Nay this pretence of Infallibility is so farre from being cause of Unity in the Catholick Church that it has been the chief cause of division and of losing more than they retain by it The Greek Church stands dis-joyned from the Roman because of her challenging Universal subjection and Infallibility and therefore no more to be dealt with And this has lost all those that in these later Ages have been divided from the Communion of the Roman Church because the pretense of Infallibility made her incorrigible and cut off all hopes of her amending the errors they complained of and desired to have reformed So that let them cast up what they have lost and they will have no cause to boast of what they hold by it Nay did the Romanists truly confesse what belief they have of this Infallible Judge it would in all probability be found that not the faith of such Infallibility but the fear of Inquisition fire and faggot keeps those they have in obedience at least external But some of them have said This Rule or way if followed does produce Unity but the Protestants Rule of belief is not apt to doe it but rather begets division Answ It is true that their Infallibility though not Real but pretended where it is followed i. e. indeed believed will produce according to the strength of erroncous perswasions an answerable effect in those that are drawn to believe it for such must needs submit to all things else But being onely pretended not reall it cannot be apt to produce the effect or hold men to them but as we said has lost many Our Rule of believing upon evidence of Scripture gained by due use of the means appointed thereunto as above mentioned in this Chap. if conscionably followed will produce the effect of Unity and peaceable submission and is more apt to do it For therfore was Scripture given that there might be one Faith and certainly not given with such obscurity as to make men quarrel but with such evidence as men not wanting to themselves may therby come to know that one faith without such a visible Infallible Judge And when any will deceive themselves and prove obstinate the Church proceeds to restrain them by Ecclesiastical censure even to excommunication for preserving Unity in the rest And other means the Antient Church had not nor can the Roman goe farther in the way of the Church for as for fire and faggot it was the way of the Adversaries of the Churcith The Testimonies they cite out of Fathers are all not concluding They are such as send Hereticks to the Church in general as S. Augustine doth the Donatists often but this does not argue that we shall finde any where in the Church a Visible Infallible Guide Otherwise we say in every Church there are Guides and Pastors of publik judgment to whom inferiours must submit and the consent of the Catholick Church is above that Or else they are such Testimonies as report the judgment of the Bishop of Rome given in such or such causes and required by other Bishops or Churches But this comes not home neither For we finde the judgment of other Bishops and learned Fathers alledged and required and that by Popes themselves So was Athaâ—asius his judgment desired by Liberius and Hieromes often by Pope Damasus and that in matter of doctrinal points and with a great deal of submission to their judgment as to be guided by it as appears in Pope Liberius Letter to Athanasius and Damasus to Hierome One place of Irenaeus is much cited by them Ad quam propter potentiorem principalitatem c. lib. 3. cap. 2. which â—ndeed makes against them For this â—mplies neither Universal jurisdiction nor Infallibility in the Romish Church Neither did Irenaeus mean so much as the words by reason of the ill Latine Translation may seem to imply For the Greek had it as I have met with it and as the whole Context avouches it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and is ill translated potentiorem principalitatem but rather