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A18448 The oration of the most noble and reverende father in God the Lorde Cardinalles Grace of Lorrain made and pronounced in thassemblie [sic] at Poyssi, the kyng beyng present, the sixtene daye of Septembre, in the yeare of our Lorde 1561 / translated out of Frenche into Englishe by T.S. Guise, Charles de, Cardinal de Lorraine, 1525-1574. 1561 (1561) STC 5010.5; ESTC S283 23,800 31

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sundry ages because we shall fynde theym all to agree In the firste hundred yeares let vs appeale and calle for the apostelles and their successours as S. Clement s Ignatius and s Denis In the second hundred Alexander the firste Iustine Ireneus Tertullian Origene and Cyprian In the thirde hundred yeares Arnobius Lactantius Eusebius Athanasius sainct Hyllarie Emissene Isichius Nazianzene S. Ambrose S. Hierom S. Augustin S. Iohn Chrysostom In the fourth hundreth Leo the great Prosper Theodorite and Cyrill And in the .v. hundred let vs come to S. Gregorie further more if ye will let vs call Damascene and long after hym S. Bernard These shal be the iudges of our controuersies which be not to be suspected and of those which be most notable and ancient ye shal haue a brefe repetitiō or recital to thintent ye may acknowledge that by the cōmune vniuersal agreement of the holie Fathers there is no place or occasiō lefte vnto vs herein Hilla li. ● de trinitate to doubte of the veritie of this body blood For by the words of our lord by our faith It is verily flesh verily blood which beyng receiued Accepta ait hausta doo so worke and make that we be in hym and he in vs. Is not this tho truthe But this can not be true to them which wholly deny Iesus Christ to be very God and to be the same which hath alwaies been in the churche of God so generally in all mens mouthes that amonge the sacramentes of the cōmune faith the veritie of the body and blood of IESVS CHRIST was not had in silence no not by the mouthes of infantes Leo epi● 13 vnto whom as to all other for otherwise we shold not beleue it much lesse vnderstand the same it was and is daiely saied and shall be vttered by the moste graue authoritie of the Churche that the same which is taken of the fruites of the earth and in the celebration of this sacrament placed vpon thaltare receiued after the custome of religion consecrated by mysticall praier offred and geuen and after the celebration finished as it appertayneth receiued to spirituall saluation vsed or consumed in the remembrance of the passion is the body and bloode of Iesus Christ whiche we perfectely beleue hath appeared in the kynde of humaine fleshe and that this likour or drinke did runne downe and distill from the side of him that was perced vpon the crosse Augu. li. 3. de trinite 4. 10 These good Fathers I say did teache their Auditorie to doubte nothyng at all before they should communicate at this holie table of the veritie of the body and blood of IESVS CHRIST Iohn 19 Leo sermo 6. de Ieiu 7. mens Chrys hom 7. operis impfect 1. Cor. 1. Isychius Leui. 22 For that is by the mouthe receyued whyche by the harte is beleued And in vaine they answer Amen which disputeth against that whiche they receaue They made no difficultie to saie that by the hande of the priest there is geuen and receaued not onely that which is seen and sanctified by him that gaue it but also that whiche there is vnderstanded is that sanctification whiche sanctifieth the receauour euen the bodye without doubt of our Lorde whiche as Sainct Paule writeth was made a sanctification for vs by the Father Contrary wise doo they affirme that he which ignorantly or through ignorance receaueth this holy misterie there not withstandyng he knoweth not the vertue thereof yet the same is the true bodye and bloode of our Lorde IESVS CHRIST In this wise thus plainly did the holy doctors both Greke and Latine speake touching this matter now long sithens Whose words specially of som of them we haue repeted so faithfully as we coulde So plainly I say haue our ancient fathers writen that one of them beyng the first Berēgarius apud Gu. Malingberien lib. 3 de gestis Anglo which long time after thē did otherwise teach that is to say that the body blood of Iesus Christ was none otherwise in this sacramēt but as a token or signe And after he had therof wel aduised himselfe disputed reasoned did not only in his lyfe time chāge his opinion but also at the point of deth which is the time to confesse the truth or neuer in his last words affirmīg stedfastly spake as foloweth Truly we beleue these misteries after the benedictiō or ecclesiastical cōsecration to be the very body blood of our sauior being induced and perswaded to beleue the same by thauctoritie of thancient churche We thā beleue cōfesse acording to the saying of the scripture and of the holy fathers that the body blood of Iesus Christ by thunspeakable operation of the grace of god the power of his holy spirite is in these holy misteries present geuen receiued we passe ouer to speake of the greatnes therof Chrysoh●… i. 8● in Mat. Wherby we shold seme to make our lord to be here outwardly visible sensible or perceptible Nothing saieth a holy father is here geuen vnto vs sensible but vnder visible sygnes inuisible thinges are there deliuered vnto vs. Ho. 60 ad popu antioch We absteine also from such maner of speache whereby contrary wise we might here seme onely to represent oure said sauiour being absent as in a tragedy or comedy Truely the maner and facion wherby he doth here present him selfe to vs wherby he geueth himself The maner of Christhi being in the sacrament Iohn 1. Cy. li. 4. in l 3. ca 1 14. Cy. Lu. 22 citāte Tho. 3 parte que 25 articu 1. Ioan. 6 where by he is receiued and participated is secret not humaine or natural and yet not therfore the lesse true We comprehend it not by sence reason or nature but by faith By which as the holy counsel of Nice the first of the foure chiefest dooth teache vs not to basely respectinge the visible elementes but lifting vppe the spirit we consider by faith the lābe of god to be there set in this holy table taking away the sinne of the world and truly we there receaue his precious body and bloud Better it is to follow the councell of the auncientes firmely to beleue the wordes of oure lorde god leauing vnto god of this his worke the meane the way and knowledge then in so highe a matter to thinke or vtter this Iewish word Quamodo a worde I saye of incredulitie perdition to the Iewes such as follow them Beleue saith the holy fathers vpō these words so often repeted Hoc est corpus meum Make no doubte thereat whether they bee true but receaue by faith the saying of our sauiour For seing that he is the truth Bernat ser 2 de caena he cannot lye Greate meruelies my brethern and thinges to be wondered at are saide of this sacramēt faith is there necessary Reason superfluous knowledge doth builde her foundation vpon
reason but faith vppon autority Let faith therfore beleue and serche not thunderstandyng These things my brethern do require necessarily faith and doth not admit reason They require a simple beleuer and reproue a curious questioner We muste therfore beleue simply that whiche cannot profitably be serched out It is nto I sure I say thus humbly to think and speake But seynge there be some that so highly do thinke and more thā behaueth as we suppose questioning so much and pressing vs so neere of the manner of his presence we are contented freely to folowe their desires sithens so muche against our myndes they thus force vs. They cannot dissemble but they theirs be greuously offended with this worde Corporaliter in this matter But I take them to be men to muche exercised in the auncient writers whereby they can excuse theim selues but that they haue founde that woorde expressed in their writynges Cy. lib. ●o cap 13 in Ioan. H●… 8. de Trinita de Chrysostome ● Hom. 15 in Ioan 83. Hom. in Math. 60. ho. ad popu antioch For the same and suche like be eft soones amonges them founde and repeted Wherfore better it is with modestie to interprete them then to take them in so euyll parte The fathers therfore both Grekes and Latins do denie that the christen men haue vnitie of beyng or coniunction onely by lyuely faithe and pure charitie or that which is to one effecte we be onely by faithe hope and loue by religion obedience and will spiritually ioyned and vnited to him But they with a more efficacie doo protest that by the speciall vertue and effect of this sacrament duely and woorthily receiued Iesus Christ dothe really and in dede communicate himself to vs by true receiuyng and participation of the nature and substance of his body and bloode and that verily he is and dwelleth in vs as we haue already sayd that these thynges taken and perceiued maketh that we bee in Iesus Christ IESVS CHRIST in vs accordyng as he saith Ioan. 6● he that eateth my fleshe dwelleth in me and I in hym For the better exposition and the same also to recommend vnto vs of the said dwellyng vnitie and coniunccion of hym with vs and of vs with hym they dyd not abhorre these aduerbes Substantialiter naturaliter corporaliter especially S. Hillarie vseth to this purpose this worde carnaliter that is to say accordyng to the veritie of the substance and nature of the fleshe of the bodie and blood of our Lorde Iesus Christ In suche sort that in no other place somuch or more then here hath place and is true and accomplished that whiche saincte Paule saithe Quod sumus Christi comparticipes Ep. 3 5● Cy. Hic ●soli●… 4. antioch corporaler addo vt ita loquar consanguine● quia membra sumus corporis eius de carne eius de ossibus eius That we bee of the selfe same fleshe and bloode with hym membres of his body of his fleshe and of his bones And we vsyng sometimes after and with them these termes we meane not therfore or saye that the maner of this so familiar and inwarde dwelling vnitie and coniunction of oure sauiour wyth vs and of vs with him shoulde bee therby naturall substantiall corporall or carnall but cleane contrarye we confesse it to be more if it may be spoken then supernaturall superstantial spiritual inuisible vnspeakeable speciall proper to this Sacrament not withstanding true not only figuratiue or significatiue And as touching the presence as little or rather lesse we say it to be locall circūscriptiue diffinitiue and subiectiue or of any other physique or naturall maner To be short in this matter we receaue no maner of Esse in whiche Aristotle or anye other philosopher hath For as we haue already sayde we doo not comprehende it by sence or vnderstanding by reason or nature that this true precious bodye and glorious bloud is here present or exhibited vnto vs but by the onely faythe grounded vpon the aucthority of the worde of God which faith beyng so is as Saint Paule sayth it Hebr. 11 of thynges inuisible and not apparent we beleue also that oure sauiour geueth vs here his diuinitie his humanitie wyth all his goddes tresoures graces and merites inuisibly or by an inuisible manner true notwithstanding as we haue always sayde beyng assured that euen as if we beleued it not we shall neuer vnderstande it as the prophete doth threaten so also if we humblye doo beeleue we shall vnderstand it Esa 7. Psal 83. and see it aboue when we shall see the God of Goddes as Dauid sayeth in Syon Which beeynge contrarye to iudgement and speculation of vnderstandyng and contrarye to the capacitye of mannes witte and inward spirite we must alwayes oppose and set the formalitie of these worees Hoc est corpus meum which shal be fier and lightnyng to all consciences in leauyng the proprietie as the fathers doth teache vs preachynge these wordes Let vs beleue in our lord obey him in al through al. Let vs not speake against him Chr. ho 60 ad po 83 in Math. although that which he shall say vnto vs shal seme very absurd not agreable cleancōtrary to our sences vnderstandings That his worde surmounteth al thing is to vs as in dede it is more worthy then al other things Which thing is mete for vs to do in al things but specially in the holy misteries Let vs not regard so much the things only which we see but let vs kepe oure selues to his wordes For his word is infallible and cannot be false or deceauable Cōtrarywise the sence is easy to be begiled and oftentimes is deceaued Seyng then he hath said This is my bodye lette vs not doubte but beleue and obeye and wyth the eyes of our vnderstandyng beholde him Ma. 18 28 The proprietie I say of these words and consequently the presence of hys body here dothe agree with the other places of the scripture which speke of his presence with vs and repugne not with any article of our fayth especially wyth that article of the Ascention of our lorde aboue all the heauens and of his setting at the right hande of God his father The article of the crede not repugnāt against the presence of Christ in the sacrament Chr. ho. 2. ad po Concerning which articles ye ar the first to my knowledge in the remembraunce of manne that euer obiected them or made them to be repugnant against the presence of oure sauiour in his supper The holy fathers wer not so subtil craftie or curious but simply and humbly preached that the sonne of god together had his fleshe when he ascended vp to heauen and also lefte it vnto vs in these holy misteries To be here to be there Sursum helias Deorsum helias saith one of them much better then Helias who being rauished into the aire did leaue cast his cloke to