Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	believe_v	deny_v	scripture_n	1,679	5	5.9487	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87230	Innocency above impudency: or, The strength of righteousness exalted, above the Quakers weakness and wickedness; in a reply to a lying pamphlet, call'd Weakness above wickedness: published by J. Nayler, in answer to a book, entituled, The Quakers quaking. By which his notorious lyes are made manifest, and the truth of the said book justified: / by Jeremiah Ives.	Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674.	1656 (1656)	Wing I1102; Thomason E886_2; ESTC R207339	35,836	59

thou answerest that which I never objected as my book at large will manifest You proceed in page 11. to answer my Quaeres and therein thou answerest to that I never asked For 1. I ask What need there is of the Scripture to declare the minde of God if it may be known without it every whit as well And you say I ask His 22. LYE What need there is of the Scriptures to declare the minde of God importing to the Reader as all may perceive both in the Question and Answer That I was a man that judged them needless But might he not as well have accused Paul for saying Preaching was vain when he he saith If there be no Resurrection THEN is our preaching vain as tell his Reader that I ask what need there is of Scripture when I said What need is there of Scripture to declare the minde of God if it may be known without it every whit as well as they pretend So that this fills up the measure of his Lyes Again I ask Whether by the Light which is in EVERY man ALL men may come to know a Virgin had a Son c. And you say I quaere Whether THAT Light will shew a Virgin had a Son which was not my quaere for I know that THAT Light which is Christ will shew this and all other Truths But what 's this to the question I ask viz. Whether this Light be in every man c. Which term EVERY MAN ALL NATIONS and THE WHOLE WORLD thou deceifully leavest out of most of my quaeres and so makes them speak another thing and then goest about to answer them as any one may see that reades my book and compares thy Answer to it and therefore let these instances suffice for the rest wherein the Reader may see thy deceit and also what-snuffling answers thou givest to the Twelve Quaeres viz. That all those things I quaere thou sayest and much more were made known by the Light within c. This is the substance of thy Answer But James how doth this answer the Quaeres which asketh thee Whether EVERY MAN hath a Light WITHIN him that will bring him to know that a Virgin had a Son and that Christ rose from the dead in three days c We believe That by a Light within these things were revealed to some men but that 's not our question but this viz. Whether there be in EVERY MAN a Light that will shew him these things proposed in the Quaeres page 19. And when I ask you What need there is of your preaching and writing to inform the world if the Light within the world can do it without you You answer in page 11. That there is need of preaching to direct people to the Light Oh miserable darkness what can the Light within without any other means direct people to the whole will of God and cannot this Light direct people to it self without you Is not this just as if a man should say That the light of the Sun will shew men every thing but it self You answer the fifth Error I charge which was That one John Lawson said The Day of Judgement was past already saying It may be seen whether he own it or no by them that reade the book And so it may if they reade but the 35 page of Sauls Errand to Damascus which is the book I cited for that purpose To the 6 and 7 Errors I charge which is against one George Fox for saying That he was the Eternal Judge of the World and the VVay the Truth and Life You answer That I prove this like the rest viz. as I did foamings at your Meetings because you did not deny it See page 12. of your answer To this I reply and that as I have said viz. That if any shall print to the world that they are charged with swellings foamings quakings and roarings and also that these things are found among them in little children and when they come to answer it shall onely deny to be guilty of one of these and say nothing to the rest may not a man rationally conclude these men guilty of all the rest especially considering it is testified by many witnesses who are better to be believed then themselves In like manner I still say That the Petitioners of Lancaster did witness this against Fox and he did not deny it viz. That he said he was the Eternal Judge of the VVorld and the VVay Truth and Life Now what clearer proof can be made of any thing among men then to witness what is charged and the person charged deny it not and yet James says this is no proof I pray if this must not go for proof how will you prove any thing to be true that one doth not see The eighth Error I charge is That George Fox said He that took a place of Scripture and made a Sermon of it or from it is a Conjurer This thou wouldst excuse by saying These were not Georges words but the Accusers Indeed this is like the rest But how dost thou know they were not Georges words Canst thou have the face to say that they are NOT his words when he though he prints the Charge and Answer to it doth not deny it himself Here thou exceedest Fox himself for impudency Nay doth not Fox answer in page 7. of Sauls Errand to Damascus that he that raiseth the Spirit out of the Letter is a Conjurer And how far doth this differ from the charge But however is it not more reasonable to believe the men that witness this against him seeing he denies it not then thee who wilt deny that for George which he denies not for himself The tenth Error I charge is upon George Fox for saying The Scriptures are carnal and thou tell'st me That this is a Lye But James how darest thou say it is a Lye when George himself in his printed answer to it would not tell the Petitioners that charged him with it They lyed but in stead thereof evades the charge by saying The Letter of the Scripture is carnall The eleventh Error I charge is upon one Leonard Fell which through the PRINTERS mistake is printed Hill and that was That he said Christ had no Body but his Church To this thou repliedst That thou doest not know that name and therefore thou makest no answer to the charge Herein thou wast glad to be ignorant else thou mightest have looked into the book and page I cited for the proof of it and easily have found it was the Printers mistake The eleventh Error I charge is against one John Lawson who said He had been in Hell but was now in Heaven Thou sayest It is plain the Saints have witnessed being in Hell and Heaven also VVhat jugling is here I charge him with saying HE had been in Hell but was now in Heaven and you tell us of the Saints of old that some of them had been in Heaven and Hell as Jonah was in

because he mentions not one Argument brought by me at that time in favour to it but in stead thereof charges me with something that I never said Whereas if that Letter were the sum of the Conference as possibly he may make some believe why then did not he write the Arguments I brought for the proof of what I then said and his Answers to them which the Letter speaks nothing of And as touching the particulars charged in his Letter and so often repeated by him as though he wanted matter I shall first speak to the first and that is That I said a man might understand the Scriptures without the Spirit of God To this I answer and that as I then told him That though all the Mysteries of the Kingdom of God and Christ could not be understood without Gods Spirit which the Scripture saith shall lead into all truth yet much of the Scripture might be understood by men that had not the Spirit as Thou shalt not kill and Thou shalt not steal and the like and the Scribes and Priests Mat. 2.4 understood by the Scripture that Christ should be born in Bethlehem as it was written by the Prophet though they had not the Spirit and surely they understood that Scripture right for accordingly he was born in the same place This I did answer at that time though he hath left it out and yet omission of any thing that he saith is counted an evil The next thing is that I said The Faith by which a man is saved is not the gift of God To this I did answer then and so I do now That it is not so the gift of God as you imagine by your Enthusiastical dotages as That men should meet together and neither say nor do towards the work of Faith till they are immediately inspired with your quaking dotages in this sense I do still deny Faith to be Gods gift yet in the sense that all those Scriptures say Faith is the gift of God I do freely own it as my book doth declare page 37. wherein I have these words That men have nothing but what they have received especially any light or knowledge of Jesus Christ according to 1 Cor. 4.7 The next is that I said The obedience of Believers was not the gift of God To this I answer as before That we being at that time discoursing about the point of Baptism and I then asserting That God was to be obeyed in that as well as others of his Commands Thou didst answer That they must wait till obedience was given them To which I did reply That God did not give obedience to his people in the way that thou didst expect it as to sit still and do nothing till men were immediately inspired to it And in this sense I do still deny That obedience is the gift of God though I do believe and am generally known to teach that to him that hath improved his talent God will give more and that he that doth his will shall know of his Doctrine And in this sense I do believe obedience to be the gift of God according to those Scriptures by you alledged and yet I say None of those Scriptures prove your obedient actions which you so call to be Gods gift You go on and say that I said Whosoever speaks that which men understand not is a Fool and a Barbarian His 9. LYE These were not the words James but indeed when thou hadst spoke a great while to us and then at last when I made some Reply upon thy words thou didst answer That thou spakest in a language that I could not understand and so thou saidst upon the like occasion at our Meeting in Beech-lane before many witnesses as I have shewed in page 10. of my book call'd Quakers quaking Hereupon I did answer according to that of the Apostle That he that speaks in an unknown tongue is a Barbarian and if I said a Fool I think I might 〈◊〉 prove it Not but that I did then and do still believe That Christ spake many things and so did his Apostles that the world could not understand because of their hardness of heart You charge me further with saying That none was baptized with the holy Ghost but they wrought Miracles I said not so but that none were baptized with the holy Ghost but they COULD work Miracles His 10. LYE and so I do say still till thou canst prove it for not one Text by thee alledged proves the contrary You tell me that I said His 11. LYE All good was not of God This is another of thy Lyes and I leave it to thee to prove Though it may be I might say That All the good you glory in is not of God and so I say still For you are of the Generation that call good evil and evil good but otherwise I believe with all my heart that God is the Fountain of all good according to the Scriptures You go on and tell me that I said Christ was not a Minister of Circumcision And so I say still till thou canst prove it And though in thy Letter thou chargest this for an Error yet thou dost not bring one Text to prove he was a Minister of Circumcision See thy deceit Again thou chargest me with Error in thy Letter in saying The Law was not given by Christ and yet dost not give me one Text to prove that it was given by Christ for the Scripture saith The Law was given by Moses but Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ Joh. 1.17 and yet thou hast the face to call this one of my blasphemous Doctrines Thou tell'st me in thy Letter His 12. LYE that I said The wilderness where John preached was in Jerusalem James this is like thee and thy Father for what man in his right wits ever said a Wilderness was in 〈◊〉 unless there be one at the Bull and Mouth at Aldersgate which is the likest one of any place in a City that ever I heard of He further saith His 13. LYE That I said the River Jordan was in Jerusalem This is false for I know that Text well in Mat. 3. that saith Ierusalem went OUT to be baptized of John in Jordan therefore I could not think Jordan was in Jerusalem But however it is as reasonable to think that Jordan should be in Jerusalem as it is for you to teach That Jerusalem is IN YOU You go on and tell me that I said His 14. LYE I could foretell things to come without the Spirit This thou sayest is Witchery To this I answer That this is another of thy Lyes to say that this is Witchery for the Pharisees did foretel things to come and had not the Spirit when they said Matth. 16.2 Luk. 12.54 55. They knew when it would be heat and rain before it came to pass and Christ bare them witness that this was true and the Priests Scribes by the Scriptures did know that Christ

Hell when he was in the belly of the Whale and Paul was in the third Heaven 2 Cor. 12.2 4. Is not this thy Logick James viz. Jonah was in the Whales belly and Paul was in the third Heaven Ergo John Lawson was in Hell but is now in Heaven And you say This was not an Error in them that witnessed this nor in Lawson IF HE SAID TRUE Now see if this answers the charge For how hast thou proved he said true when he said so The twelfth Error I charge is That you say you are perfect and sin not This you tell me is a Lye and yet in the next words you say You own perfection and you say Perfection is not that that you never had as you say I falsly accuse you But James if thou hast perfection what Lye is it to say thou art perfect any more then it is a Lye to say one is rich when he saith he hath Riches The thirteenth Error that I charge is That James Nayler said None could come to God or Christ but they that come to perfection By this he saith it seems I deny perfection to be in God or Christ but saith he if that be granted then they that come to them come to perfection To this I answer That it is one thing for men to come to perfection and another thing for them to come before a God that is perfect for Paul was not come to persection when he himself saith Not as though I had ALREADY ATTAINED Now he had attained to come to God and Christ as I plainly shew in page 33. of my book and therefore this cunning evasion will not serve thy turn for who is there so sottish as to think that when they come to God or Christ that they come to a God or Christ that is imperfect and therefore if that should be thy meaning then thou wast but beating the air and fighting and contending where none opposed thee But by this the world may see how Janus-fac'd thy Oracles are that look two wayes at once Nay and doth not the latter end of thy answer to this particular in page 14. of thy book plainly shew that thou didst intend perfection in men rather then God or Christ inasmuch as thou sayest The children of God never pleaded for sin dwelling in them and so say I too The fourteenth Error I charge is that James Nayler said That whensoever they did eat or drink they could have communion with the Body and Blood of the Lord in eating and drinking though it were at the Gentiles Table This he denies not but saith It must needs be counted an Error with the Belly-gods of this world c. But what is this to prove That God doth anywhere require you to have communion with the Body and Blood of the Lord though it were at the GENTILES Table And if he do not require it how darest thou say thou canst do it and how darest thou blame me for calling this an Error when thou hast not brought one Text to prove it is a Truth And whereas thou sayest Thou CANST have communion with the Body and Blood of Christ at the Gentiles Table Doth not the Scripture say That the things which the Gentiles sacrifice it is to Devils And doth it not also say That we CANNOT partake of the Table of the Lord and the Table of Devils and yet this man saith He can have communion with the Body and Blood of Christ at the Gentiles Table The fifteenth Error I charge is That James Parnel did deny all Baptism but of the holy Ghost To this thou repliest That to own the Baptism of Christ and to deny all else is counted an Error by me and if so then the Apostles did erre also How doth this follow when they did assert pluralities of Baptisms and did nowhere deny as you do all Baptisms but that of the Spirit James now proceeds to tell me page 14. That I go about to prove Water-baptism by Questions and crooked Consequences and he saith that I cannot finde a Command for it after Christs sufferings and That we cannot finde a plain Scripture for that which we worship c. And he further saith That Moses in all his house did leave his Ordinances not to be proved after this manner and therefore he infers we are not to think that Christ will leave his Ordinances with such kinde of proof To all which I answer First that I have asserted proof for Water-baptism in the questions propounded by me upon that occasion See my book page 25 26. which thou canst not answer But secondly how canst thou reject Consequences and Questions when none have more Questions and conceited Consequences to prove what they hold then your selves As for instance to give the Reader a few among many 1 Quest Where have you a plain Text without a consequence that saith That the Light spoken of in Joh. 1. is IN every man that comes into the world which you confidently affirm 2. Where have you a plain Text that saith Christ was the Minister of Circumcision which thou saidst was one of my blasphemous Doctrines to deny pag. 5. of thy book 3. Where have you a plain Text that saith The Law was given by Christ the denyal of which thou sayest is another of my blasphemous Doctrines page 5. 4. Where have you a plain Text that saith God sent some immediately that could not work Miracles or to whose Ministery he did not witness from heaven since you boldly affirm that you are so sent though you can work none 5. Where hast thou a Text that saith One may have communion with the Body and Blood of the Lord at the Gentiles Table as you affirm 6. Where have you a plain Text that saith He that raifeth Spirit out of the Letter is a Conjurer 7. Where have you a plain Text that saith The Scriptures may not be call'd The Word of God 8. Where have you a plain Text that saith There is no Baptism but of the Spirit which you also affirm 9. Where have you a plain Text that saith John Lawson was in Hell but is now in Heaven 10. Where have you a plain Text that saith Christ was not born after the flesh but after the Spirit James either give me express Scriptures that do affirm these things in the words as thou layest them down or else be ashamed to accuse others for bringing Consequences when they bring the plain Text whereas thou haft neither Text nor Consequence for any of these thy fond conceits And now I cannot but give the Reader to take notice that thou sayest I have not found one Text that doth command Water-baptism after Christs sufferings His 22. LYE when whoever looketh over the 25 26 pages of my book shall finde several Texts to that purpose and nine several Questions upon that subject to which James makes no answer at all as any-body may perceive that reades the 14 page of his book where he answers all