the foundation of the World but now once in the end of the World hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb. 9. 26. Where the Apostle counts it absurd to say Christ hath suffered often since the foundation of the World and behold this new Mystery I suppose the everlasting Gospel so called composed by the Fryers about King Henry 3ds time tells us boldly Acts and Mon. vol. 1. p. 416. and roundly he is yet suffering and suffers daily and reigns daily in every age suffers in some reigns in others And so Christ himselfe was out that said I was dead and am alive and live fox evermore but for that of the Hebrews I suppose if these new but not true prophets and Apostles would speak out they would tell us the foundation and the end of the world are both in them but remember still that they are not the true Apostles and Prophets whatever they say They say This is no Mystery of deceit as we say of it but a Mystery that hath discovered our deceits who know not the seed of the Kingdom nor the power wherein it rises Reply Yes yes this is the Mystery of deceit the strong delusion long since prophesied of that men should be given over to for not receiving the love of the Truth that they might be saved But counting the Preaching of the crosse foolishnesse as in truth this people do and that makes them turn it into a fable or Allegory but we know the end of these men and them that follow them wilfully and pertinaciously too as the Apostle hath foretold For this cause God shall send them strong delusions to believe aly and they believe it indeed that will deny the True Christ and his sufferings and Sacrifice and Gospel for it and run into hazards and sufferings like mad men to promote it that they might be all damned that have not believed the Truth as indeed these heartily have not for had they they would not easily have entertained such deceits and fancies but have pleasure in unrighteousnesse c. 2 Thes 2. 10 11 12. Wo wo to this people and their followers for however they are entered in for this condemnation or contention their damnation slumbereth not Flee from their tents and Teachings their deceits and underhand denyals of the only Lord God and the Lord Jesus Christ that bought them all yea that would escape utter ruine and destruction for here we have the Spirit that confesseth not Christ come in the flesh but making him the figure of a Spirituall wickednesse or Mysterious deceit that works in them that perish For even in that clause last mentioned by them too the seed of the Kingdom is made all one with the Son of man that sows it for both are Christ with them but they ask Have we never known what Christ is without the Camp Surely we know he is a reproach and scorn to such as these are that are not of the Camp of Israel and thither must we follow him bearing his reproach for owning and acknowledging his simplicity But they say That before we who are neglecters of Christ and abusers of his Truth can know the seed of God and what it is in us we must come to the Light which will condemn us for our deceits and lyes wherewith we have abused the Truth and then learn to know what and where the grave is which Christ hath made with the wicked Reply Their reproach we shall bear and shew their evil in it by and by but this we say That by the light that reproves and condemns all neglects and abuses of Truth in us or them we are helped to see the Mystery of their deceits and Spiritual wickednesses in Heavenly things and how they turn his words of truth into a lie not only neglecting but wholly trampling the true Christ under their feet that they might make way for and introduce their own fancies Toward the end of our discourse turning our speech to the people we desired them to take heed of these men as a heavie judgement of God that he hath ordered to us joyning ourselves therein with the people as part of the National Body as the Apostles and Prophets use to do to punish us for our neglect of Christ the Salvation of God and abuse of his Truth And here they think they have gotten a great advantage and their mouths are exceedingly open upon us wresting our words and loading us with reproaches twitting us over and over that we are neglecters of Christ and abusers of Gods Truth by our own confession blessed be God that we are counted worthy to suffer reproach for his Names sake for that 's the thing they are mad at us for though they take occasion from our confession of our own and the peoples sins therein shewing themselves the right brood of evil doers such as David of old grappled with in his age as in Psal 38. 17 18 19. For I am ready to halt said David and my sorrow is continually before me For I said I will declare mine iniquity I will be sorry for my sins but mine enemies are lively as if they had no sin to own and confess or were none of the body of the people that had deserved judgement and they are strong in their delusion and confidence in evil and they that hate me wrongfully are multiplyed so these men thus triumph W. and F. Here have yee made manifest your selves indeed ye Hypocrites what have ye been crying out against the Quakers calling them deceivers warning the people to beware of them writing against them and judging them to be in delusion and errours when you your selves neglect Christ the salvation of God and have long abused the truth as ye are made to confesse consider your own condition you are in great delusion and errour your selves who neglect Christ c. and ye are not like to bring people nor can to Christ the Salvation of God and his Truth who are neglecters of Christ and abusers of his Truth c. Reply To which we say 1. They wrest our sayings as if we spake only of our selves when we speak evidently of the Nation in generall and of our selves as part of them as having our share also too much in their pollutions And is it not evident that the Nation is too full of neglect of Christ and abuse of his Truth nor do we exempt our selves from all faultinesse therein Even as the Prophets of old joyned in themselves with the people whose sins they confessed as knowing should the Lord have been severe to mark their iniquities they could not have stood Therefore they said not as the Hypocrites stand apart we be holier then you as those do that are a smoak in Gods nostrils a fire that burneth all the day Isa 65. 5. For 2. The Hypocrites be those that spy moats in their brothers eye but see not the beam in their own that justifie themselves before men and
to prove that Adam might have died the natural death though he had not sinned they argue as thus Because Christ who had no sin not considering that Christ had our sins laid upon him and for them he died but Adam should have had no sin laid upon him or imputed to him had he not sinned himself But such like reasonings are too many to number up in them 4. They carry on their false designs and doctrines with lies and falshood most frequently as in saying often that we accuse the Saints and plead for sin p. 2 3 4 5. And in belying J. H. in saying that he turned G. Ws. words about his false Syllogisme above mentioned when as all that were at the dispute and heard and remembred his words may remember they were word for word as John Horn relates them Yea and in belying his own words in saying they were such as they indeed were not Again in saying we might as well have accused the true Prophets and Apostles with being Preachers of lies and deceivers as the Quakers and that the same Spirit in us that hath accused the Quakers with being deceivers that is the Spirit of Truth would have accused the true Prophets Christ and his Apostles for being deceivers page 5. That we contradict our selves in many things where we have made it we have made it evident there is no contradiction That we look for a Christ like our selves but that he hath no Blood in his Body as we imagine p. 10. That our expecting the Redemption of the Body to be waited for aster Death is contrary to the Saints expectations p. 11. and 12. In which words is both equivocation and falshood that what the Scriptures say of Christ and his Body they own in which they also either equivocate or say falsly or both they equivocate if by owning they mean as probably they do they own it as true of themselves the Quakers as if the things spoken of Christ and his Church are verified in and of them and may be affirmed of them Or if by owning they mean they believe and hold them true concerning Jesus of Nazareth and them that believe on him to be saved through the virtue of his sufferings Sacrifice and Mediation then they say falsly Yea whether this or the former be their meaning they are false therein as our reply makes manifest to the impartial Reader But who can number up their lies and falshoods in falsifying our sayings and otherwise which the following Reply will further evidence He that will procure and search and compare what Christopher Wade of Water-beach hath written against them with their writings against him may see a whole dozen of notorious lies of George Foxes clearly proved against him to which G. W. in his answer gives the go by most egregiously and in none of them disproves him 5. They misrelate and give the go-by to many of our charges and sayings as for instance We quoted Jam. 3. 2. to prove all believers here to have sin or sometime to offend to this they say nothing onely quote the place and give it the go-by telling us onely that James exhorted men to let patience have its perfect work c. Which is nothing to the purpose p. 3. So what we said of the Nature of man as it is in Christ discharged of sin Law and Death in his Resurrection p. 10. Of our former Book that they represent it as if we had said it of the Nature and being of man as in us to be discharged in our Resurrection p. 11. And whereas we charged them with denying the Humanity of Christ as to its being now in him they give it the go-by answering onely that they never denied the Man Christ for his flesh is their food p. 14. Whereas they had before denied him to have any other Body then his Church p. 8. And to our saying that Christ is not really and personally in the believer as in Heaven but by Faith they let go the words personally and as in Heaven in their answer and traduce us as denying any real being of him by Faith in the believer p. 14. More such like dealings thou mayst find in p. 15. and 18. and divers others 6. They carry their designes by reproaches Nick-names and abusive expressions in which also much hatred malice and spite against us is made evident to be in them and so that they are far from sinlessenesse to this purpose it is that in their Title page and Post-script they Nick-name us Calling us 1. Teachers of the People called Moorians or Manifestarians and called by some Free-willers and Independants which what can it proceed from but their hatred of us and indignation against us Seeing 1. The Names we own not nor are the People we Teach so called as Moorians that we know of T. M sen it seems for affirming not of himself as his own but from the Testimony of Christ and his Spirit recorded in the Scriptures that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the World and gave himself a ransom for all men and is by virtue thereof the Mediator of God and men the propitiation for the sins of the whole World and extends to men meanes leading them to Repentance and is ready to receive such as in the means are prevailed with to believe and this a good ground and motive to Repentance Faith Love c. Was by some that opposed those truths standered and called Papists or Arminian and some of the same mind with him in those truths were by means of a certain Manciple in one of the Colledges that turned Almanack-maker and reproachfully devising that Name called Moorians by some drunkards profane and cavilling persons but never owned by him nor by any of his friends much less by us or the people we teach nor do we know of any civil people or others these revilers excepted that say or write of us or of any people that they are the people called Moorians as these men call themselves in divers of their writings the Quakers the people called Quakers which makes it lawful for us also without reproach to give them that name by way of distinction in our speaking or writing of them as the names Herodians Sadduces and Pharisees are given in the Scripture to and were owned by those people 's so called without reproach to them And the rather because the Name Quakers fathers their Doctrine upon no man as the name Moorian doth nor charges it with any particular evil Opinion as the other name Manifestarian and Free-Willers import though had they been thereby wronged and reproached yet the Spirit of Truth would have led them not to return reviling for reviling reproach for reproach and to joyn hands with drunkards and others so that herein they are convicted to be sinners being guilty of reviling As also in that 2. They add or Manifestarians as if Moorian and Manifestarian were the same with them this is another of their spiteful reproaches against
what was spoken by him though yet their defence That the light was the same in nature in both the Apostles and them they preach to is unsound too For what Light was in the Ephesians who were darknesse before the Apostle preached to them The Light the Apostles Preacht was the Light of the Glory of God in the Face of Jesus Christ that the Ephesians while darknesse had any measure of that in them we want their proof G. W. Should have done well to have vindicated his own corrupt Gloss upon that saying Ephes 5. 8. ye were sometimes darknesse viz. they had some darkness in them but he sneaks away from that and takes no notice of it Sure here it behoved him to have proved what light the Ephesians had in them of the same nature with what the Apostles brought them before their coming to them We accused them that as a main piece of their corrupt Doctrine that they say All have the Light of Christ in them and that that is whatsoever reproves any sin in men to which they bid men look for all their Light and teaching To this they say We might as well have accused Christ and the Apostles but mention not one Saying of theirs that jumps with their Doctrine for though Christ Saith I am the Light of the World yet he saith Not every man in the World hath me or my Light in him and that 's it that reproves and checks them John saith Christ is the true Light that lighteth it is not enlightneth every man coming into the World But he saith Not that that light is in every man that cometh into the World and continues in him so long as he is in the world and whatsoever he find reproving sin in him is that Light The Apostle Saith That which may be known of God was manifest in them that detain the Truth in unrighteousnesse but that it still continues in them that like not to retain it but put it from them and say to God Depart from us we desire not the knowledge of thy wayes somewhat like these mens saying That they desire not the Knowledge of that Christ we look for from Heaven and whose minds are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without judgement the Apostle sayes not Can they be without judgement that have Christs light in them seeing its his judgement that he makes to rest for a Light of the People Isa 51. 4. The Grace of God that bringeth Salvation hath appeared to all men it s said But that all receive and so have it abiding in them it s not said much lesse that whatsoever reproves sin in them is it that it s given to all we deny not And therefore men are condemned because when given them they accept it not They ask What it is in men that must leave them without excuse And we say but what of it have they in them whom it hath left or leaves without excuse is that in a man which hath left him They ask How can we shew that have not a Light of Christ in them to reprove them And we say George Whitehead George Fox and such impudent lyars if they be as much without reproof within as they seem to be without in their brazing out their lies before men and in the Scriptures those that being past feeling have given over themselves to all licentiousness to work iniquiry with greediness Ephes 4. 19. But they say We have wickedly wronged them for they do not say what soever reproves any sin is the Light of Christ But that here they themselves are the lyars and do wrong we appeal to those that heard and remember what John Whitehead said in his discourse at Gedney about the Covenant of Light how after he had told them it is given to every man and that that 's the word in men by the hearing of which comes Faith corruptible enough then propounded where it is and asked if they found not something in their consciences reproving them for sin and told them that was it they should heed that was that light and much to that purpose which when we opposed and said Satan transforming himself into an Angel of Light could for his own ends reprove for sin they exclaimed of us till we brought diverse arguments from Scripture about it And surely if Satan know that men have such principles he is so Subtile as to put himself into the form of a Reprover for many evils that so he may gain credit with them to receive his delusions as the run-about Pharisees also could do many of these steps these men walk in whether their way exposes men to follow their own Spirits on the Grounds aforesaid or onely to follow the the Light of Christ we leave it to the judgement of all that understand things that differ or that have read the relations of John Toldervy and John Gilpin and others of that way They charge it as a lye of ours that we say Geo. Whitehead derided at mens faith in the Death and Bloodshed of Christ beyond the Seas We added as if that was a good foundation of faith which they subtilly suppresse and herein we appeal to all that heard our dispute that remember and have the honesty to say what they heard and what else do they in their Book when they say our faith that is not grounded in Christs appearing in us is to be turned up by the roots Yea and again in p. 15. in what they say against our affirming the Death and Bloodshedding of Christ to be the foundation or of the foundation of our faith yea and here they shew their corruption in saying that the faith they own they know the word of it to be in the heart they mean before outward Preaching heard and that they have it not to fetch from beyond the Sea nor from above nor from beneath but it s nigh in the heart and in the mouth refusing still to take notice of what follows though with that we charge them in our Book and shewed from what follows the scope of the Apostle therein and how it favours not their corrupt conception which here they have clearly past over as not daring to meddle with it we refer the Reader then to what our Book says about it as being left unanswered by them That the light wherewith Christ lighteth every man is both Natural and Spirituall in diverse streams of it we said and explicated largely which here they dissemble here they cavil that we called not the light he lightens men with lights but light If a man should ask what peace God is Author of and we should say of all true and good peace both Temporal and Eternal outward and inward VVere not he a very caveller that would cavel at us for not saying all peaces but all peace such is their folly here As also in faulting us for not proving one light to be both Natural and Spiritual when as we never affirmed it no more then one peace to be
stand by themselves and say God I thank thee I am not as other men are I am not as this Publican c. The Hypocrites use not to be sencible of and own their sins but rather boast themselves to be holy as if they had no sin Search the Scriptures and see if the Scribes and Pharisees Hypocrites or the true Apostles and Prophets rather use to confesse their sins and take shame to themselves for them You may finde David Solomon Isaiah Jeremiah Daniel Paul James John c. but never the Scribes and Pharisees so doing let all see whether they or we be in the steps of the Hypocrites then do they walk directly in them lifting up themselves as if they had no sins to confesse when indeed they be most deceitfull and abominable Hypocrites in the inside of their Doctrine turning the Truth of God into a lie But 3. What would they have done had they lived with the true Apostles and Prophets from whom they distinguished themselves above Would they not have fallen fowlly upon them and reproached them as they do us Had they heard Davids saying innumerable evils have compassed me about mine iniquities have taken such hold upon me that I am not able to look up they are more then the hairs of my head therefore my heart faileth me Would they not have called him Hypocrite for faulting his enemies and persecutors as evil doers and yet he himselfe so burthened with iniquity Had they heard Isaiah say we grope for the wall like the blinde we grope as if we had no eyes we stumble at noon day as in the night c. Isa 59. 12 13 14. for our transgressions are multiplyed before thee our sins testifie against us for our transgressions are with us and as for our iniquities we know them in transgressing and lying against the Lord and departing away from our God speaking oppression and revolt c. Would they not have said Oh thou Hypocrite hast thou been crying out against us as blind and bruitish and such as have no understanding and dost thou grope like a blinde man and as if thou hadst no eyes people had need take heed of thee least thou lead them blind-fold into the ditch Do you lie and transgresse and speak words of ravolt from God Should we or any of us then take heed to you Consider your own conditions c. Do not those words speake as high as neglect of Christ and abuse of his Truth Revolt from him signifies more then simply neglect of him and how would these have reproached him had they heard him say we are all as an unclean thing and all our Righteousnesses are as filthy rage c. Isa 64. 6. Would they not have cryed out upon him unclean wretch and bid him leave preaching and told the people they had need to take heed of following such an unclean wretch Had they lived in Agurs dayes and heard or seen him publish his prophecy with Jehiel c. and how he begins with this confession Surely I am more bruitish then man and have not the understanding of a man I neither learned wisdom nor have the knowledge of the Holy Would not such proud Pharisees as these have cryed out upon him for a beast what should he be heard for And warned people not to take heed to his sayings seeing he confesses he hath not the knowledge of the holy Prov. 30. 2 3. The like I might observe of Ezra and Nehemiah Job confessing their sins and Daniel that they had done wickedly rebelled by departing from Gods precepts judgments Daniel says expresly that he confessed his sins as well as the sins of his people Dan. 9. 20. Yea and this too after they were holy men and Prophets and born of God as was made good lately against G. W. at our later dispute with him he not being able to maintaine the contrary What would they have said had they lived when Paul that wrote against the Antichristians that made a fair shew in the flesh and gloried in appearance comes out with an acknowledgement that he was a chief of sinners and lesse then the least of all Saints Eph. 3. 8. Would they not have concluded him to be an Hypocrite to give out himself to be an Apostle and Preacher of Christ and yet not so much as the least Saint Would they not have concluded him then one of the World and so led by a worldly deceitful spirit not to be believed and followed Reader judge indifferently between us if they in thus reproaching us for joyning our selves with the people and confessing our selves faulty in that we have too much neglected Christ and abused his Truth not so contended for Christ against these deceivers and false prophets as we should nor so used and walked in his Truth as we ought and are not like the Pharisees that pretend themselves perfect and to have no sins to own and confesse Judge whether of us tread more in the steps of the Prophets and Apostles who said if we confess our sins he is faithfull and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness Judge whether of us have the beame in our eye to hinder us from seeing we that pull it out by owning and confessing our evils with the evils of the people or they that hide their wickednesses and justifie themselves as no sinners though guilty of such horrid damnable deceits as we have herein in them discovered They bid give over our Teaching of others Reply Ay that 's the thing they would have that 's it grieves them that the sheep should not be left to the Wolves that they might devour them but is that wholesome Counsel and the way for us to do better we confess we have too much neglected Christ and they would have us neglect him more let him look to his own affairs c. We confess we have been guilty with the Nation in the abuses of truth and they would have us abuse it worse by suppressing it that God might take it from us and give us up to their delusions Nay nay that 's not the way to do well that 's counsel from the Devil Did not the holy men above mentioned condemn and reprove the false Prophets and enemies of the Truth of Christ in their several ages because they confest themselves guilty of such evils bruitishness iniquities no whit below our expressions See what Agur sayes notwithstanding his foresaid confession Prov. 30. 12 13. There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes are not these Quakers such and yet are not washed from their filthiness There is a Generation Oh how losty are their eyes and their eye-lids are lifted up Are not the Generation of the Quakers such haughty and proud boasters Did not David Isaiah Jeremiah Paul John c. Preach against and reprove the false Prophets hypocrites and Antichrists of their times too though they confest sins in themselves Should they not have done thus
Or should not the people have listened to and followed their doctrines because of those their confessions See then people that we may reprove and cry out against the Quakers and warn you of them though we consess we have been too guilty in not arming you as we ought against them The Apostle Paul intimately faults the generality of the believers and Teachers of his time as too much guilty of neglecting Christ and abusing his Truth when he sayes he had none naturally minded as Timothy for all seek their own and none the things that be Jesus Christs Phil. 2. 20 21. Did he say therefore that they should leave preaching Christ Surely not Christ also faults the Church of Laodicea for the like evils contained in lukewarmness did he bid them therefore not preach his truth Nay but to be zealous and amend Rev 3. 14. 15. 19. W. and F. They ask if they be a judgement of God upon us why we do not bear the Judgement of God more patiently seeing we have sinned so against him why we rage so against God and say all people may be satisfied that we be not contended with Gods Judgement Reply All this is but deceit For First what impatiency or rage do we discover against Gods judgement Is that rage or impatiency to reprove and warn men to beware of deceivers Were not the false prophets and deceivers alwayes a judgement And did not the Prophets and Apostles alwayes reprove them and warn People of them Did they therefore rage against Gods judgement Secondly Had God sent us instead of these some judgement of Savage Beasts Lyons VVolves c. might we not have used our best diligence to sray them away and destroy them without impatience under Gods hand or judgement Or if God should send an Army of Turks or Spaniards to punish us in this Nation for our neglect of Christ and abuse of his Truth may we not fight against them what we can and endeavour to beat and destroy them and yet not rage against Gods Judgement but bear patiently what he orders to us So if God send strong delusions is not that a Judgement Must we be content and satisfied with them and not discover and resist them for fear of being impatient under his Judgement Even so may we and ought we to be diligent against these by word and writing to oppose and discover their filthy dreams and deceits and yet we may be patient under his hand and have no grudge in our spirits against him as the Prophet Micah who was exercised in his dayes with some such evil generation Mic. 7. 8 9. he resolved to bear the indignation of the Lord because he had sinned against him he owned himself a sinner though the hypocrites his enemies rejoyced against him till God should plead his cause c. and yet he ceased not to reprove and endeavour to keep people from being harmed by such enemies They threaten They will be an heavier judgement and a burthensome stone c. Reply We blesse God we see in some measure what they are and we are above their reach and the more they strive against the Truth of Christ with us we are sure the more to discover and lay open their wickednesse we shall be able through the strength of Christ to scatter their mists and fogs and their weapons of deceit shall have no force upon us the more we strive with you ye Quakers the more through Gods help we overcome you and get above you so as to be strengthened in our Spirits against you and your swelling words of vanity that you think to fray the simple with And where as they bid us Learn to prize Christ the Salvation of God and Truth and believe therein and fight no longer against the Lord and his Truth and his Servants least he shorten our dayes c. Reply We hope we prize Christ so as we think all our service for him against them and for his Truth against their destructive deceits too little to be performed to him and that our greatest diligence to know and serve him is so far below his excellency as that we judge our selves guilty of neglecting him in serving him no more and our greatest services for his Truths and Servants too much abusive of them as Job confessed though he spake many excellent things of God that he but darkened Counsel by words without Knowledge but far be it from us to fight against the Lord or his Truth or Servants t is against their errors and in them that serve another Master then the Lord as through Gods strength we have made them manifest that we fight and we say they that have their life in heaven and their hope stedfast for the Resurrection of their Bodies and the Glory of Christs Kingdom fear not either that God will shorten their dayes for their service against his adversaries nor what death can do to them if it shorten their dayes in the flesh and we blesse God that we have thriven the better both in Souls and Bodies since we contended against them and their errors W. and F. They say The Lord hath searched and tryed our Hearts and found us guilty of much ungodlinesse and his Light hath often made us sensible of it c. and we have long sleighted his call and hardened our Hearts against his reproof Reply Herein they set themselves above their places and makes themselves knowers of our hearts of which they are ignorant It were better for them to judge themselves and repent of their own errors and deceits while there may be space of repentance as for Gods searching and reproving us we blesse him for it and desire him yet in mercy and faithfulnesse to search us and see if there be any way of iniquity in us and purge it out and lead us in the way everlasting but should we not search and try our hearts if God have searched them had not God often searched the Prophet Jeremies heart and reproved him too Yet he saith Let us search and try our wayes and turn unto the Lord Law 3. 40. But as for their self-exaltations and vilifying and reproaching us we shall leave them and bear their Rabshekah-like language knowing that he that abases himself shall be exalted when he that lifts up himself as they proudly do shall come down with a witness That their prevailing is not of the Lord otherwise then was foreshewed the strong delusions be should send should prevail upon them that perish is evident from what we have discovered And therefore all those self-commendations of themselves are but so many deceitful words of vanity we know they tread much in the Pharisees and salse apostles steps they compass Sea and Land as much to make proselites and served their Master therein as freely as they do and bragged of it too as they do as the Apostle implies 2 Cor. 11. 10 11. and yet they lead people to destruction Whereas they reproach us for laying open one anothers
Ear rings and Ornaments they were faulted and Aaron too for their casting them off to make an Idol of and sure men and women had better wear such things soberly as these men Pharisaically condemn then make an Idol or false Christ or righteousness to themselves of their casting them off as they led them to do as the false Apostles led their Disciples to do with their observations of times and dayes c. VVhat they say of J. H. he leaves to the Lord to judge the truth of and as for condemning our selves in what we judge others we say we desire to judge our selves and them too in what we are guilty but not in what they foolishly fault us like the Pharisees superstitiously faulting Christs Disciples for things he faulted them not That the Deceivers and Subverters of Souls spake things that the peoples Consciences became in bondage to and many things that through the effect of the Law in their Consciences they could not deny but close with is falsly denyed by them For how else were they transformed into Ministers of Righteousness if they speak nothing suteable to the Letter of the Law of Righteousness so as that the Consciences of people bearing witness to the truth of some of their sayings might be brought to listen to them and receive also their delusions They say The Law in men is Light and it is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that freeth men from the power of sin and death VVherein still they play the juglers for First neither doth the Apostles say the Law is in every man or in all the Gentiles but he sayes the effect or work of the Law Rom. 2. 14. Secondly The Apostle sayes The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus had made him free from the Law of sin and death not onely from the power of sin and death but from the law that convinces of sin and holds in bondage for it and sentences to death as Rom. 7. 4. Gal. 3. 13. and 4. 4. clearly shew even from under that Law that is in it self holy and just and good yet by reason of the flesh could not justifie or save Now these to hide their deceit seeing that had they cited the Apostles words they insinuate that something reproves of sin that is not Christ as we said they subtilly change his phrase and turn it into another thing How they set themselves masters in mens Consciences for all their feigned humility in denying that title we have before shewed often in this Treatise and therefore here shall wave it W. and F. They say They suffer much for righteousnesse sake and for bearing Testimony against unrighteousnes and we oft cause it c. Who do they here commend themselves and the Jesuites for we said to get themselves a party as the Jesuites do they expose themselves to some sufferings c. and they deny not for they know its true that the Jesuites do so too and think we they do not say its for Righteousnesse sake and for witnessing against unrighteousness and that they may thank the Teachers often for it T is likely the Quakers and they are either the same or of very great affinity yet both their ends shall be according to their works as well as other false Apostles and false Prophets who have exposed themselves too to great sufferings partly of voluntary devotion and will-worship and partly from people against their wills for their falshood as Baals Priests and Prophets did 1 Kings 18. 28. 40. 2 Kings 10. 25. Collossians 2. 20. 21. 22. W. and F. That we have not God nor abide in the Doctrine of Christ they endeavour to prove against us because we say we of this Nation joyning our selves with them as not without guilt have neglected Christ and long abused the Truth But we deny their inference for every neglect of Christ and abuse of his truth deprives not of God nor is accompanied with such transgression as not to abide in his Doctrine for who then should stand as Psal 130. 3. the Apostles had fellowship with God and Christ when yet they had sins to confess and so neglects of Christ and abuses of truth to be cleansed from for in every sin is some neglect of Christ sure and abuse of Truth in some degree or other and such things David Daniel Isaiah and others confessed in effect and yet in so doing that is confessing their sins kept in with God receiving daily forgiveness of them and cleansing from them and though they had some failings in the way yet they abide in it and transgrest not so as to leave the way It is the Deceivers and deceived Generation who leave the Doctrine of Christ for some corrupt mysterie and false imagination that are guilty of such transgressions and abide not in the truth nor have either Father or Son whatever their false boastings be or selfe justifications they are fallen from Christ and be accursed And G. W. knows that the Quakers were proved to be such in our late dispute with him to that purpose The Pharisee that pleaded no sinner was out of the Doctrine of Christ when the Publican that durst not look up because of his sins was nearer in it they that say they have no sin deceive themselves the truth is not in them and so they have not God and Christ when they that confesse their neglects of Christ and abuses of his truth shall find him faithful to forgive their sins and to cleanse them from all unrighteousnesse they are in Gods Doctrine and way to life when the others are far wide of it for he that humbleth himself shall be exalted he that acknowledgeth his sin shall find Mercy when he that hides and dissembles it and lifts up himself as if innocent is out of God and Christ and shall be abased and confounded The rest being frothy and disdainful reproaches we leave them to the judgement of the Lord and shall look to him to plead our cause against them which also blessed be his holy Name he hath in some measure done since the first draught hereof in our latter conflict with G. W. to his no small confusion and to keep people from their strong delusions and specious but most pernicious deceits having we trust so laid open their nakednesse that all that will may see their folly manifest and avoid them and all their Serpent-like windings and insinuations Nor fear we to proceed against them in Print for ought that they threaten us with or can do against us for the more they Print the more shall their folly be made manifest as the Spirit of God hath before signified 2 Tim. 3. 6 7 8 9. In the strength of God therefore and of our Lord Jesus Christ we shall stand against them and all their assaults that their printing can make against us blessing him that he hath counted us worthy who in our selves are most unworthy to be made his instruments to draw out
their deceits into light that people might be warned of them and so avoid them To their foolish Questions in their Post-script we say First That they begin their questions with a falshood for we are not called Moorians or Manifestarians that we know of nor are so for we call no man our Father or Master after that forbidden manner nor own we any such callings as they do that own themselves Calvinists Lutherans c. nor are we Authors of what they say we hold forth in either the first or second branch of it The first is Pauls flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God nor can corruption inherit incorruption And as to the second that flesh and bones may We say not that flesh and bones as natural in natural bodies may we say that that Body of Christ which had Flesh and Bones after the Resurrection of it is taken up into heaven and is in heaven and the Scripture is clear for it Luke 24. 39 40. 51 52. what change or transmutation further it had in its ascension and Glory we know not but we believe that as the Apostles see him taken up into Heaven and they see him taken up in that Body in which was Flesh and Bones so he shall come again in like manner Acts 1. 11. their reproaching us for that faith shall not drive us from it because they are none of the True Apostles and Prophets nor if they were might we give credit to them bringing a contrary Doctrine to what we have from the Holy Apostles received Gal. 1. 8 9. Quest. 1. THey ask if Eliahs flesh and bones could enter into Gods Kingdom when he was taken up and if his blood could not Then when where and how and by whom was his blood taken and separated from his flesh and bones and what is become of it Ans Secret things belong to God things revealed to us and to our children that we might believe and do them Whether Eliahs body is in Heaven or in what form or manner we neither read it nor can determin nor they neither Quest 2. And what is it that hinders the blood that it cannot enter the Kingdom as well as the flesh and bones which ye say may is the transgression of the blood greater then the transgression of the flesh and bones And shall the flesh and bones be redeemed from corruption and shall not the blood What is the cause For though the Lord doth what he pleaseth yet doth he do any thing without a cause Ans These are prophane Scoffs and Reproaches against Gods Truths that the body which is sown a natural body shall be raised a spiritual body after the pattern of Christ who is the first fruits of them that sleep we believe and that the Body of Christ raised had Flesh and bones in it we read and believe also and that flesh and blood shall not inherit the Kingdom of God we believe too but prophane and vain bablings we are to shun which will increase to more ungodlinesse and eat like a Canker especially the Word and Doctrine of such as Hymeneus and Philetus who erred concerning the Truth and said the Resurrection is past or made already and that 's these mens error as above shewed when they said The coming of Christ spoken of 1 Thes 4. 15 16. in which the dead are to be raised was while the Apostles believers lived and remained Therefore these words and prophane bablings of theirs we and all people are to avoid being wise to sobriety knowing that God hath no cause higher then himself and his own good pleasure in what he doth and that he gives not an account of all his matters and what he keeps secret is not for us to search Quest 3 Whether do you own that Doctrine that when Christ appeared amongst his Disciples after his Resurrection when the doors were shut John 29. 19. that then his body being spiritualized it glided in at the key-hole of the door Which Doctrine Thomas Moore Senior hath formerly preaobed as some hath affirmed who heard him Answ No but we owne that this is a slander raised maliciously against Thomas Moor Senior either of their own heads or by some that render him evil for good and hatred for his love to whom appertains and upon whom will fall Judas his curse and portion if they repent not mentioned Psal 109. 5 6 7. c. Quest 4. And where do the Scriptures say that flesh and bones may inherit the Kingdom Heaven Answ Where do we say so or in any tearms but what the Scriptures own The Scriptures say Christ shall so come even in like manner as his Disciples see him go up and he was taken up in that Body in which was flesh and bones as before which Body is now his Glorious Body further we affirm not or inquire not Quest 5. And whereas you John Horn and Thomas Moor in page 16. say That Sathan doubtlesse may reprove of some sins and presse to some duties now have you not herein shewed your selves to be ministers of Sathan and not of Christ c Answ No no more then Paul was in saying Satan himself is transformed into an Angel of light 2 Cor. 11. 13 14. sure an Angel of light will reprove of sin and presse to duty and if Satan do not so as to form or outside at least he is not in the form of an Angel of Light Whereas they ask further What duties or any things that are duties doth Satan press men to bidding us answer directly or let shame cover our faces which they say will at length come upon us for our deceits We answer To such duties as in which his Ministers may be transformed into Ministers of Righteousnesse which they could not be if not Zealous for some things that are in their place and order in duties 2 Cor. 11. 14. as to be diligent to go up and down and preach Righteous Works or VVorks of Righteousnesse together with their own evil mixtures and to evil unrighteous ends that he might by drawing them from gross evils as the Pharisees their Proselites from Heathenism and gross idolatry make them more Children of hell by spiritual iniquity and wickedness and so more serviceable to his designs and so he presses the Quakers to reprove many fins and evils which indeed is a duty ought to be done in Gods way but as they do it they serve Sathan in it making it a means to beguile unstable souls to their delusion The Lord stop their mouths as he hath promised in Psal 63. 11. A multitude of Questions under 26. Heads sent by George Whitehead and since owned by him and by John Whitehead and George Fox the younger as sent by them all to John Horn and Thomas Moor junior for this they say in their pretended Answer to us subscribed by all the three that they sent queries in Manuscript to John Horn and Thomas Moor see the latter end of their 33. page meaning these they
crucified nailed to the Cross and pierced with a Spear as himself then did expresly demonstrate to Thomas see vers 27. This revealed we believe to be true because spoken by the Truth of God that cannot lie But where or how he came in further then revealed in his Testimony already given we desire not to be wise in knowing or carnal in seeking sensually to immagine for secret things belong to the Lord our God but things revealed unto us c. Deut. 29. 29. To the last we say None of us have said as is related nor matters it what hath been said concerning some of our way that 's not the onely falshood that hath been forged concerning us by some of their way They might have heard such imaginations and inquisitions reproved by us as too sensual in seeking to bring down the great things in the Revelation of the Mysterie of God manifested in the flesh to the sensual mind or comprehension and favouring of pride and vanity of mind in desiring to be wise above what is written and so we still look upon them and therefore own no such thing But believing the Scriptures and the great power of God and that the Body of the Lord Jesus risen from the dead is Glorified with the Fathers own self we know he could come in where how he pleased whether there was any such way for him or no and needed no passage to be opened or made or for him Yea further also we are assured that even the Children of the first Resurrection when they shall attain to that Resurrection of the dead and have their bodies that now are vile fashioned into the likeness of his Glorious Body they in those very bodies bâ—ing Spiritual Immortal Powerful Incorruptible shall be equal to the Angels who cannot be hindred from passage by any corruptible things as Doors Walls or the like but can make their own passage through any such obstacles more easily then mortal bodies through the air And why should it be thought a thing incredible that the Creator of all things should make mans nature partaker of such Glory It is so onely to the sensual and carnally minded who do therefore err not knowing or believing the Scripture and the great Power of God And that these are such appears by this manner of questioning Do they not secretly imply in this question that such a thing could not be done according to the proper and natural sence and import of the words unless some mortal man can tell where or how And do they not therein signifie that they count the plain sence and cleare import of the Evangelists words to be a lye And that either Christ had not a Body having flesh and bones after his Resurrection as himself said or if he had he could not come into the house and be in the midst of them the doors being shut and so by rendering the expressions of the Holy Ghost such as can have no truth in them in their litteral sence and plain import but are rather a cunningly devised fable they would insinuate a necessity of seeking the truth in some fancied moral or Allegorical interpretations of theirs Besides they intimate pride and high thoughts of themselves for sure they would have us think they are so wise above what is written that they can answer their own Querie what lesse can be thought in their thus propounding it to us But till they have answered the Questions put to Job chap. 38. we will not believe them for we know neither they nor any other mortal man can by searching find out the Almighty to perfection Job 11. 7 8. nor yet find out the Work of God from the beginning to the end Eccles 3. 11. no not the Works of God done under the Sun Ecles 8. 17. He is no true believer on God that will believe no more of his Works then he can tell how where and in what manner they were done and he is foolish and proud that conceives himself able to demonstrate to reason every such thing in every Work of God Quest 11. Whether the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered persecution whose body was subject to hunger and affliction be not made a quickening spirit 1 Cor. 15. 49. and yet his flesh and blood is so nigh to every true believer that his flesh is his meat indeed and his blood is his drink indeed c Answ This Question also may be divided into two parts 1. Whether the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered c. be not made a quickening spirit 2. The following part is in the form of a proposal yet is signified to be part of their question by the interrogatory point it is thus And yet his flesh and blood is so nigh to every true believer that his flesh is his meat indeed c To the first part VVhether the same Christ c. be not made a quickening Spirit We answer Yea he is or rather to use the expression of the Scripture he was so made for he is not now making or to be made so And further we say We truly believe and propofess without hidden things of dishonesty That it is the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered c. Now that was the word made flesh and so Christ of the fruit of Davids Loyns after the flesh who had both Spirit and Body and if he were without either now he could not be the Christ much lesse the same Christ yea the Scripture quoted by them 1 Cor. 15. 45. saith That as it was the first man Adam that was made a living Soul so it is the second Adam that was made a quickening Spirit And therefore as the first Adams being made a living Soul hindred not his having a natural body yea it was the man that was made so so neither doth the second Adams being made a quickening Spirit hinder his having a Spiritual and Glorious Body that yet hath flesh and bones yea it s the man Christ Jesus the second Adam Christ of the fruit of Davids loyns after the flesh that was made both Lord and Christ and so a quickening Spirit It is the same Jesus that suffered so in the same body in which he once not onely suffered but suffered for our sins and bore them on the Tree the just for the unjust c. which also is more then they include in their acknowledgement of his Sufferings it is this Jesus who was both dead and buried whom God hath raised up and made both Lord and Christ They would seem to grant that the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered c. is made a quickening spirit yet privily deny it while they confesse not Jesus to be the same and very Christ that was so made which they do not while they acknowledge him not to be so made in the same body of his flesh in which he once so suffered For the Name Jesus alwayes