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A51740 A letter to a friend, shewing the vanity of this opinion that every mans sense and reason is to guide him in matters of faith. Manby, Peter, d. 1697. 1688 (1688) Wing M386; ESTC R31875 8,647 7

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but that there was no such absolute necessity of Reformation as that Christs Church could not subsist without it He proceeds A Garden is the same before it be weeded and after To be purged doth not give a new Being to the Body The Glory of Christs Church was not extinguished by Superstitious Errors but only eclipsed page 1013. of his Works For the extent of our Separation we have not left the Catholique Church but only the Roman Church saith he Now I pray setting aside the Roman Church name me that Church under the Sun whose Sacraments and Liturgy the Church of England embraces Does she communicate with the Greek Church No that Church is for Mass the Corporal Presence Invocation of Saints Prayers for the Dead c. Does she Communicate with Lutherans Calvinists Anabaptists c. No no Lutherans are for the Corporal Presence the Crucifix over the Altar c. The Calvinists and Anabaptists have no Orders of Priests and Bishops therefore 't is a question whether they have any true Sacraments at all For we as for our parts believe saith Bishop Bramhall Episcopacy to be at least an Apostolical Institution approved by Christ himself in the Revelation Ordained in the infancy of Christianity as a remedy against Schism and we bless God that we have a clear Succession of it page 133. of his works printed at Dublin So that I cannot but wonder at those words of his page 1018. We have not left the Catholique Church but only the Roman Church Good Sir Name that Church in Europe Asia Africa or America whom your Reformers have not left tell us in what City or Province we shall find it Then observe these words ibid. p. 1018. We would admit the Church of Rome to be a Sister if that would content them yea an elder Sister and rather than fail to be a Mother Church to the Saxons or ancient English but we may not allow them the place of a Lady and Mistress And further We believe the Holy Ghost doth lead the Catholique or Universal Church into all Truths which are simply necessary to Salvation and preserves it from all such damnable Errors as are destructive to saving Faith. pag. 1018. The difficulty Sir is to find out this Catholique Church the Provinces or Cities where it dwelt before the Reformation or since if it be not in O Brazeel the Isle of Pines or the New Atlantis And when we have found it out what is the reason the Church of England does not communicate with its Sacraments and Liturgy since the Holy Ghost doth lead it into all Truths which are simply necessary to Salvation and preserves it from all such damnable Errors as are destructive to saving Faith as the Bishop asserts positively ubi supra These are the Questions that you may please to answer at your leisure If there be any such Church out of England what needs any Separation from her Sacraments or Altars where is the danger of communicating with her did the first Reformers under Edward 6. believe themselves when they repeated this Article of their Creed One holy Catholique and Apostolique Church if so why did they attaint all the Christian world of abominable and damnable Idolatry for the space of 800 years and more Farewell SIR Give me leave to add by way of Postscript that if you do not like this Paper I shall desire to know your Reasons and when I know them perhaps I shall not like ' em You allow every man his Judgment of Discretion that is a liberty to think or not think as you do in matters of Religion Stick to that Principle and I see not how you can find fault much less persecute any mans Opinion without contradicting your self But I have worse news than that to tell you the Good People of these Nations never dreamt of a thing call'd a Republick or Free State before the blessed days of Reformation that is until Scripture came to be understood according to every mans Judgment of Discretion FINIS
men neither are they out of the pale of the Church nor out of the way of Salvation pag. 396. of his Works printed at Dublin Thus Sir your Answers are so f●r from excusing the Liberty of this thing cal●'d every mans Judgment of Discretion that they expose the vanity and uncertainty of it for you see how the first Reformers by vertue of their Judgment of Discretion did attaint all Christendom of damnable Idolatry for the space of 800 years and more and how Bishop Bramhall by vertue of his Judgment of Discretion pronounces them only material Idolaters that is no Idolaters in the eyes of God or discerning men nor out of the Pale of the Church or way of Salvation His Reason you shall hear by and by In the mean time you shall find nothing in all this Paper that denies the modest use of our Reason in matters of Religion It only intimates the uncertainty of Reason that a wise man cannot trust it when it contradicts the received Faith of the Church And truly unless it be governed by the Grace of God that is with Humility and Charity it runs as naturally into Schism Heresie and Rebellion as a Cockatrice Egg into a Serpent Give me leave to recom●end to your consideration these following Texts of Scripture and then conclude with a few passages out of Bishop Bramhall Knowledge puffeth up but Charity edifieth and if any man think that he knoweth any thing he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know but if any man love God the same is known of him 1 Cor. 8.3 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit there is more hope of a Fool then of him Proverbs 26.12 Be not wise in thine own eyes fear the Lord and depart from evil Prov. 3.7 Charity never faileth but whether there be Prophecies they shall fail whether there be Tongues they shall cease whether there be Knowledge it shall vanish away For we now see through a Glass darkly but then face to face 1 Cor. 13.8 Be of the same mind one towards another Mind not high things Be not wise in your own conceits Rom. 12.16 All this have I proved by Wisdom I said I will be wise but it was far from me Eccles 7.23 For vain man would be wise though he be born like the wild Asses Colt Job 11.12 Wo unto them that are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight Isa 5.21 Trust unto the Lord with all thine heart and lean not unto thy own Understanding Prov. 3.5 These Texts though I say it had been good Advice for the first Reformers Cranmer Cromwell Ann Bolen Ridly Latimer Dudley Somerset c. whose Charity or Modesty a man can never admire when he seriously reflects upon these words of their Book of Homilies viz. Not only the unlearned and simple but the learned and wise not only the People but the Bishops not the Sheep but also the Shepherds themselves who should have been Guides in the right way as blind Guides of the blind fell both into the pit of damnable Idolatry in the which all the World as it were drowned continued until our Age that is until Henry 8 and Edward 6. by the space of above 800 years unspoken against in a manner 3d Part of Homily against Peril of Idolatry Now Sir If Roman Catholiques may be allowed a little use of their Own reason and choice of their Own Church as well as others I pray satisfie me by what Authority or Mission from God did those Reformers damn all the Christian World And set vp this Altar in England against that in France Spain Germany Italy Burnet Hist 2 Vol. page 14. 2d Edition Greece c. reforming the daily Sacrifice for so the Communion was called in the primitive Church as Burnet confesses into once a month in all Cathedrals and thrice a year in all Par●sh Churches Had they any Commission or had they none If they had not as undoubtedly they had none to authorize such immodesty then remember the Divine Indignation against Uzzab for presuming to put forth his hand uncommanded to support the Ark from falling 1 Chron. 13. If they had any do me or your self the kindness to produce it that we may see the contents of it and there is an end of the Controversie But do not pretend a Mission from the Church of Rome or from Christ by the hands of Roman Catholique Bishops For that 's like taking up Arms by the Kings Authority against the Kings Person And by the same pretence a Lutheran Minister having received his Orders from a Roman Bishop may Preach against the Sacraments of the Church of England Besides that it serves as well us Roman Catholiques to Preach against your Church since you can never invalidate our Mission without destroying your own Do not Roman Catholiques Lutherans c. think they understand the Doctrine of Christ as well as you or what extraordinary things do you pretend to I conclude with these passages out of Bishop Bramhall and I promise you his own words fairly First see page 133 of his works printed at Dublin where you shall find him answering this Objection that we meaning the Protestants have Schismatically separated our selves from the Communion of our Ancestors whom we Believe to be Damn'd c. He Answers First for our Natural Fathers the Answer is easie we do not condemn them nor separate our selves from them Charity requires both to think well and speak well of them but Prudence commands us to look well to our selves so say the Presbyterians and Independents excusing their not Communicating with the Church of England we believe our Fathers might partake of some Errors of the Roman Church We do not believe that they were guilty of any Heretical pravity observe this but held always the Truth implicitely in the preparation of their Minds and were always ready to receive it when God should please to reveal it unto them upon these grounds we are so far from damning them that we are confident they were saved by a general Repentance c. Then see page 68. of his whole Works If men might not be saved by a general and implicite Repentance they were in a woful Condition for who can tell how oft he offendeth Psal 19. and if by a general and implicite Repentance why not by a general and implicite Faith Why not by a general and implicite Obedience So as they do their utmost endeavours to learn their Duties and are ready to conform themselves when they know them c. In vain doth he meaning S. N. a Roman Catholique demand whether the Church of Protestants were extant in the World before the Reformation as if Protestancy were of the Essence of the Church As the Errors of the Roman Church were accidental to it so likewise was the Protestation against those Errors and the Reformation of them which might either be present or absent sine interitu subjecti Mark Sir what is the English of th●s