of God Traditions c. The second Chapter Ievvel Pag. 193. In prooem in prouer Salomon Touching the booke of the Machabees vve saie nothing but that vve finde in S. Hierome S. Augustine and they holy fathers S. Hierom saith the Church receiueth them not emong the Canonical allovved scriptures Harding The bookes of the Machabees canonical emonge the faithful S. Hierome speaketh of such Canonical Scriptures of the olde Testament as the very Iewes allowed for Canonical Such in deede the bookes of the Machabees are not But why haue you not alleged S. Augustines wordes as wel as S. Hieromes Certainely bicause they condemne you For if yee said al that of the bookes of the Machabees which S. Augustine saith you would allowe them for Canonical Scriptures amonge faithful Christians August de De Ciuitat Dei lib. 18. ca. â—6 He saith Machabaeorum libros non Iudaei sed Ecclesia pro Canonicis habet As for the bookes of the Machabees not the Iewes but the Church accoÌ„pteth them for Canonical Hereunto I maiâ— adde but M. Iewel and his Companions accompte not the bookes of the Machabees for Canonical 〈◊〉 theâ—â—in they are of the Iewes Synagog and not of the Church of Christ Now see good Reader â–ª 〈…〉 be made when he said as thou findest noted in the mâ—rgeâ— of his booke Pag. 191. that he would denie no more then S. Austine S. Hierom and other Fathers haue â—enied If you say ye deny not the bookes of the Machabees â–ª 〈◊〉 â—eproue you praying for the dead which is so sufficiâ—â—â—y proued by those bookes Soothly if you allow the one you must allow the other Ievvel Pag. 193. S. Iames epistle Eusebius saith S. Iames Epistle vvas vvritten by some other and not by S. Iames VVe must vnderstand saith Eusebius that it is a bastard epistle Harding You haue abused Eusebius For he leaueth not there but goeth forward shewing what he ment by his word li. 2. c. 23. li. 2. c. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche you turne is a bastard But Ruffinus more ciuilly translated it à noÌ„nullis non recipitur The epistle is not receiued of some men And Eusebius him selfe addeth Nos tameÌ„ scinius etiaÌ„ istas cuÌ„ caeteris publicè aplerisque fuisse Ecclesiis receptas Yet we know that S. Iames and S. Iudes Epistles with the rest haue ben publikely receiued of most Churches wherby we learne that Eusebius meaÌ„t by the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 asmuch to say as it is accompted of some men not to be S. Iames owne Touching his owne iudgement he sheweth him selfe to be of the opinion that it is S. Iames epistle Of some he coÌ„fesseth by those wordes that it was doubted of Therfore you haue reported Eusebius vntruly making him to pronounce negatiuely of the epistle which directly he hath not don Iewel S. Hierome saith It is said that the Epistle of S. Iames vvas set forth by some other man vnder his name Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Harding I graunte But S. Hierom had said before those wordes which you allege Vnam tantum scripsit Epistolam quae de septem Catholicis est He wrote onely one epistle which is one of the seuen Canonical Epistles Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Ecclesi script Againe after the wordes by you alleged it followeth that the said epistle in processe of time hath obteined authoritie Ievvel 194. VVe Lutherans and Zuinglians agree throughly together in the vvhole substance of the Religion of Christe Harding I perceiue the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud is no substantial point with you and yet he that receiueth it vnworthily 1. Cor. 11. receiueth his damnation And he can not receiue it worthily who beleeueth amisse of it But either the Lutherans or the Zuinglians or bothe beleeue amisse thereof bicause in that behalfe they â—eache cleane contrary doctrine Therefore either both as the truth is or one of those two sectes as them selues must confesse receiueth alwaies vnworthily and consequently they must confesse that one of the two sectes is vtterly damned without any hope of saluation And certainely the Zuinglians as also the Caluinistes are the worse bicause they beleeue Goddes word lesse in some degree then Luther taught and go further from the literal sense of his Gospel 1. Timo. 3. and from the beleefe of the Church which is the piller of truthe Iewel 194. The Church is not God nor is able of her selfe to make or alter any article of the faith Harding Esai 59. Ioan. 14. But she is the spouse of God and to her he hath promised both his wordes and his spirite to remaine with her for euer And therefore she is the chiefe witnes of al the articles of the faith Wherefore seing you hearâ— not her witnesse you ought to be vnto vs as an Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publican Iewel Isai 8. Esaie saith to the lavv rather and to the testimonie If they ansvver not according to this vvorde they shal haue no Morning light Harding Iere. 31. Hebre. 8. This lawe is written also in our hartes as Ieremie and S. Paul doo witnesse And the successours of the Apostles geue also a testimonie of Christe no lesse Ioan. 15. then Christe said the Apostles should doo Therefore the lawe and testimonie whereunto Esaie calleth is as wel that which is written in faithful mennes hartes and which is witnessed in the Church as that which is written in the olde and new Testament Iewel Pag. 194. M. Harding saith further If quietnesse of Conscience comme of the vvorde of God onely then had Abel no more quietnesse of conscience then vvicked restlesse Cain c. VVho vvould thinke that M. Harding bearing suche a countenance of Diuinitie vvould thus goe about to deceiue him false vvith a pointe of Sophistrie Harding Who would thinke that M. Iewel being pressed with a point whereunto he is not hable to make answere would not thus go about to deceiue his vnlearned Reader with a point of Sophistrie I praie thee reader take the paines to peruse what the Apologie saith what I haue said in my CoÌ„futation and what M. Iewel bringeth in the Defence touching this matter I desire no more but that thou read it and then iudge as thou seest cause It is an easy matter for M. Iewel when he hath made me to speake what he listeth to frame an answere accordingly But I must alwaies warne the reader not to beleue M. Iewel when so euer he reporteth either my wordes or any other mannes M. Ievv shifteth him selfe from Scripture to Goddes vvorde but to repaire to the Original Fot seldom is he founde cleere of the crime of falsifying And here he entwiteth me of Sophistrie wheras in deede he vseth the grossest sleight of Sophistrie him selfe He conueigheth him selfe from the Canonical Scriptures to Goddes worde Now I spake of the Scriptures and he answereth of Goddes worde Defence pag 191. Whereas it is said in the Apologie that
them selues also for auoiding superstition maie surceasse and be put awaie where the thing signified is perfourmed and sufficiently beleeued And so is Baptisme like to be quite abolished with other Signes and Ceremonies For Caluine their new Apostle of Geneua teacheth that if we were mindeful yenough of Christes Death al the Sacramentes were superfluous Caluin in â— Cor. 11. I praie God in this point I be not a true Prophete Defence 150. M. Iewel laboureth al that he can in the Defence to discharge Caluin of this perilous Doctrine wherewith I burden him in my Confutation But when he hath said al he hath lost his labour bicause he coÌ„meth not to the point and dissembleth that Caluine euer said it And so he maie beginne that matter again He shal do wel to make Caluin in Antidoto to agree with Caluin in his coÌ„mentaries vpon S. Paules Epistles where he teacheth expressely that in case of sufficient remembrance of Christes Death al the Sacramentes be superfluous Whiche I gather not out of Caluines wordes by a fonde collection as M. Iewel beareth the Reader in hande but I shew it to be Caluines owne saying and for trial I directe the Reader vnto the place Concerning the Godhed of the holy Ghoste I moued no Quarel at al. The Godhed of the holy Ghoste Pag. 90. Confutat 41. b. The proceeding of the holy Ghoste Yet in the Defence of the Apologie he beareth menne in hande that I denie the holy Ghoste may be proued to be God by expresse Scripture For these be his wordes You saie M. Harding that the Godhed of the holy Ghost can not be proued by expresse wordes of the Scriptures and thereof ye saie ye are right sure This is as false as true it is that the holy Ghoste is God Reade my wordes who wil he shal finde me true and M Iewel false Mary as touching the Article of the holy Ghoste whereas the Authours of the Apologie saie it procedeth from both the Father and the Sonne whiche is most true Some thinges are to be belieued for which vve haue no expresse Scripture in consideration of this pointe of this pointe only I saie whiche is parte of the whole Article and not of the Godhed I saie in my Confutation that they haue no expresse Scripture for it nor any of the first foure Generall Councelles and that therefore we are bound of necessitie to beleeue somewhat whiche is not expressely mencioned in the Scriptures and that an other Councel where that Article was confirmed is to be receiued beside the foure first whiche only be allowed in England by Parlament Bicause he was lothe so manifest Vntruthe vttered against me should be espied he nipte awaie my wordes not suffering my whole tale to be tolde out in whiche I doo plainely signifie my denial to perteine only to the Article of the holy Ghostes proceeding and not to the Article of his Godhed For after these wordes of the Apologie Defence pag. â—0 we beleeue that the holy Ghoste who is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie is very God not made not create not begotten but proceeding from both the Father and the Sonne by a certaine meane vnknowen vnto menne and vnspeakeable c. In my Confutation I saie thus As we acknowledge this Article to be true CoÌ„futatioÌ„ fol. 41. b. and Catholique so we demaund of these Defenders how they can proue the same Haue they either expresse Scripture for it or any of the first foure general Councelles whiche be esteemed of most auctoritie Other Conucels to be allovved of necessitie besides the 4. First We are sure they haue not Therefore we doo them to vnderstand and if they heare vs not we aduertise the readers that feare God and loue his truthe that al truth necessarily to be beleeued is not expressed in the Scripture and that other CouÌ„celles be to be receiued besides the foure first whiche are allowed in England by Parlament * This much betvvene the tvvo starres M. Ievv nipt avvaie from the rest as that wherein this pointe touching the proceeding of the holy Ghost hath bene defined Concil Lugdunen Concil Florentin sub Eugenio 4. as also other definitions of the Churche when vpon a newe doubte rising an olde Truth is by later Publications declared Likewise those Councelles in whiche the doctrine hath ben defined by the Churche concerning the Two Willes and Operations of Christe whiche who so euer beleeueth not or at least refuseth to beleeue is not to be takeÌ„ for a Christian man If these Councelles be denied al these things shal come in doubt againe and if these be receiued then why should not al the reste that be vniuersal Councelles be also receiued which the Church hath allowed * Thus I saie there Iudge now good Reader whether I denie in that place that the holy Ghostes Godhed maie be proued by expresse wordes of Scripture wherewith he chargeth me in the Defence and whether this be a seeking of Quarelles against him for that he mainteineth the Proceeding and the Godhed of the holy Ghoste as he chargeth me in his Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie Likewise it is an immoderate lye where he saith I seeke Quarelles against them in that they mainteine the Faith of the holy and Glorious Trinitie Pitie it were I should be suffred to tread on Gods earth if I quarelled with any man for that he mainteineth that holy Quarel I professe my selfe bounde to mainteine that Faith with al my witte and learning and to be ready therein to spende my bloude to the last droppe Neither can I seeme to pike Quarelles against them in that they mainteine the General and Catholique professioÌ„ of the Common Creede for so should I proue my selfe an ennemie to the Faith As thus to doo it were a hainous crime so to burden me therewith in a publique Write in a printed Booke set forth for euery man to reade in a solemne Epistle Dedicatorie to a Prince and to suche a Prince the slaunder is hainous wicked and impudent Howbeit As I allow and approue the Confession of their beleefe touching the Trinitie confessing it to conteine true and Catholique doctrine so I seeme better to like of the olde accustomed manner of vtterance of the beleefe And in deede emong Christian menne when this high point of our Faith concerning the blessed Trinitie is by a publique Confession to be taught it is not yenough to vtter some parte of our beleefe whiche is true but also it behoueth vs to vtter the whole truthe and to vse suche fourme of wordes as hathe benne vsed and allowed by the Churche from the beginning What I meane and how reasonably herein I haue spoken by these my wordes vnto the indifferent Reader it shal appeare Confut. 39. b. But what fault finde ye in this confession of our Faith saith this defender Sir the first parte of your Confession wherein you vtter your Beleefe touching the Trinitie conteineth true and Catholique
thus by secrete confession he leaueth vs fiue hundred three score and sixe vvhole yeres at the least that is to say the vvhole time of Christe of his Apostles and al the Godly learned Doctours and Fathers of the primitiue Churche c. Harding That by no such secrete Confession I haue graunted them the first fiue hundred yeres c. The. 5. Chapt. To bring M. Iewel once to feele his palpable grosnesse in mistaking one thing for an other thus I made my reason Christes promise is as wel warranted to the Church◠for the later thousand yeres as for the firste fiue hundred But it saued the Churche from errour the firste fiue hundred yeres by your owne Confession M. Iewel Ergo it hath saued the Churche from errour the later thousand yeres Where is the secret confession that I gaue you the firste fiue hundred yeres of light and lefte to my selfe the later thousand of Darkenesse It lieth you vpon to driue out that my secrete Confession by some woordes of myne whiche you shal neuer be hable to doo or elles to reuoke and agnise your wilful malice or your grosse ignorance If ye had any place of Scripture that said Christes promises were no longer warranted to the Churche then for the space of the first fiue hundred yeres you had some colour to triumphe But suche places of Scripture haue ye none nay ye haue the contrarie both for the presence of Christes special assistance Math. vlt. Iohan. 14. Esai 59. and of the holy Ghostes vnto the ende of the worlde What Scripture haue ye then to warrant the first fiue hundred yeres more then the later thousand Here I cal earnestly vpon you to answere Tel vs haue ye any Scripture to warrant the one more then the other No doubtelesse I am wel assured thereof And doth M. Iewel now that was woont to cal so busily for Scripture Scripture make warrant of the one more then of the other without al Scripture Yet once againe I cal vpon you to tel vs in what parte of that sentence is my secrete Confession conteined that al the first fiue hundred yeres are yours Tel it to my shame if you can spare me not If you can by hooke or crooke by wresting wringing racking or by any good drifte of reason boult out any suche secrete Confession of myne A free and liberal offer made to M. Ievv marke wel what I saie M. Iewel when you haue done it in deede as I am wel assured you shal neuer be hable I doo promise faithfully to yelde vnto you in al the rest of your Articles vppon Condition that if you do it not you shal in like manner yeelde to al the Articles of the Catholike Doctrine wherein I haue trauailed against you Lo here is a faire offer who can denie it Take it if you dare If you refuse it take the shame to your selfe Touchinge Lirinensis of whom in this place you speake besides all reason who geueth three Notes to knowe what Doctrine is Catholique you make suche a prety Limitation of his saying Pag. 94. that his three Notes so limited shall neuer stande vs in any steede Lirinensis purpose was to shewe vs certaine assured notes or markes how to know what doctrine is Catholique and what is heretical and erroneous thereby to instructe vs how to beware of false doctrine VVhat is Catholik by Lirinensis That is Catholique saith he that euery where euer more and of al personnes hath benne beleeued that is whereas the Churches were not corrupted saith your fond◠limitation and special Restraint But the Churches saith Lirinensis that teache doctrine agreable with these three notes of Vniuersalitie can not be corrupted in doctrine For these are the very true notes whereby to knowe sownde Catholique doctrine from corrupte as he auoucheth neither he only but S. Augustine also Wherevpon it foloweth that M. Iewels newe founde Limitatiō and special Restraint is a very vaine toie of his owne deuise Yea the Limitation as it is vttered vtterly destroieth Lirinensis general rule of his three Notes to know Catholique and vncorrupte doctrine If that which hath ben beleeued euery where euermore of al personnes may be corrupte doctrine then are both Lirinensis and S. Augustine vtterly deceiued in geuing vs such deceitful Notes Aug. li. de Genes ad literā imperfect cap. 1. and M. Iewels Limitation and special Restrainte must take place On the other side if that doctrine whiche hath ben beleeued euery where euermore and of al personnes can not be but true Catholique and vncorrupte doctrine then may M. Iewel put vp his Limitation and special Restrainte in his purse which he expressed by these wordes whereas the Churches were not corrupted Verely the same is vtterly vnsauery and hath no grounde of learning nor of witte nor of common reason To liue euery where euermore emong al sortes of menne honestly to hurte no man to geue al other menne their owne are three special Notes taught by Iustinian for menne to know who doo liue Ciuilly vnder the lawe But M. Iewel if he plaie with Iustinian as he hath with Lirinensis and S. Augustine wil not leaue the matter so rawly he wil rush in with a Limitation and a special Restrainte saying it is to be vnderstanded whereas he that so liueth committeth or offendeth nothing against the lawe If it would please him to take a daie to consider the matter better he might see that he who keepeth him selfe within these Notes or preceptes appointed by Iustinian dothe no more offende against the Lawe of man in dooing then the Churches that teache doctrine agreable with Lirinensis and S. Augustines Notes offende against the Lawe of God in beleeuing which doctrine of necessitie must be vncorrupte and the Churches likewise that so teache must of necessitie be in doctrine vncorrupte if S. Augustine and Lirinensis say true But iuggle on M. Iewel your false plaie shal doo no great harme as long as it commeth to light in this sorte alwaies to your owne shame Iewel Pag. 94. The Catholique Churche of God standeth not in multitude of personnes but in vveight of Truth Harding That the Catholique Churche standeth in a multitude of personnes which M. Iewel denieth If not in multitude of personnes The. 6. Chapt. why then allege you this place of S. Augustine Aug. li. de Genes ad literā imperfect cap. 1. to choke your selfe with al Saith he not the Churche is called Catholica Catholique quia vniuersaliter perfecta est in nullo claudicat per totum orbem diffusa est Bicause she is vniuersally perfite and halteth in nothing and is not nowe shutte vp in one onely Countrie as the Churche of the Iewes but powred throughout the whole worlde If the Churche be powred throughout the whole worlde then must it needes stand in multitude of personnes onlesse your wisedome can conceiue a Churche spred throughout the whole worlde without a multitude of personnes that
the reprehension of my vehement speache doo fal into the selfe same Vehemencie Whose wordes are these M. Iewel M. Ievv blameth my vehemencie of speache him selfe being also no lesse vehement Pag. 94. Beholde your owne wordes so many so vaine so bitter so firie so furious al together in one place Are not these your owne wordes Are not these as vehemeÌ„t as you could deuise Wil you finde faulte with me for that you vse your selfe If vehement speache be to be vsed when the matter requireth why blame you me If not why doo you so often vse it Whether you and Luther doo vse it iustly for the zeale of Goddes glorie aske that of them that wrote the Confession of the Churche of Zurich Your owne frendes the Ministers of that congregation doo set forth Luther for his outragious and filthy railing against them in his colours and speake of him as of a very vile felow and paie him home againe with as good as he brought Reade the booke and ye shal finde it to be true Howbeit I could sende you to many other bookes of your brethren fraught with muche more vile stuffe of railing then that litle booke conteineth with al whiche you are better acquainted then I am The Confutation of the Apologie The seconde parte the 2. Chapter Confut fo 44. b Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe aâ— other waie bicause Christe is head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie Menne be called heades in as muche as they be in steede of Christ and vnder Christ after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians for if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it 2. Cor. 2. for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe And in an other place 2. Cor. 5. We are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in few 〈◊〉 vvhat sense Christe is named the Head of the Churche and in vvhat sense the Pope is so named according to inwarde influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is the head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christ and in steede of Christ is head of the same Iewel Pag. 94. To the matter ye saie that touching the influence of grace Christe onely is the head of the Churche but touching direction and gouernemeÌ„t the Pope only as the head Al this is but your ovvne tale M. Harding ye speake it onely of your selfe other authoritie of Scripture or Doctour you bringe vs none Harding Dogge eloquence proued no vnwoonted terme and how the Pope is Head of the Churche To the mater ye saie And truly wel said of you The .7 Chapt For hitherto you haue not directed your talke to the mater but to the person of your Aduersarie with whom you shew your selfe greuously offended for calling the Currish and snarling vtterance of Luther Dogge eloquence And whereas you would faine draw the same to the preiudice of my modestie I trust you that are so great a Rhetorician and so wel seene in poetes Fables wil iudge so muche the better of me for so muche as Quintilian that modeste and graue Oratour and Ouide also no Poete Satyrical thought suche phrase of speache not vnmeete for the countenance of modestie and humanitie that they bare in the worlde For if you remember Canina Eloquentia QuintiliaÌ„ lib. 12. c. 9 Ouid. in Ibin is Quintilians worde calle it dogge eloquence dogged eloqueÌ„ce or dogges eloquence or how soeuer otherwise it please you to terme it And Ouid saith Latrâ—◠〈◊〉 in toro verba canina foro If for the vse of this auncient terme I seeme to passe the boundes of modestie specially attributing it vnto Luther whose heretical and Deuilish vtterance is coÌ„monly in deede farre worse then the barking of any Dogge or the hissing of any Serpent what wil you saie of the Scolding of your hote brother M. Calfhil But now that after muche idle and impertinent talke you are come to the mater what saie you that is worth the hearing M. Iewels foule falsifying of my vvordes Thus you saie Ye saie that touching the influence of Grace Christe onely is the Head of the Churche I graunt I say so in deede Go ye forth and make no lye but touching direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Yea sir Where saie I so You should haue caused your printer to haue falsified that senteÌ„ce of mine that at your owne pleasure the simplest of your owne poore Fauourers who take al for the Gospel that you saie or write might not in your owne booke espie your shamelesse lying For euen there notwithstanding your coÌ„mon falsifyinges other where 's and also there they maie finde my saying otherwise reported It is an euident argument that myne owne wordes were to true for you to confute sith that you thought it necessarie least you should seme ouercome to alter and change them for other wordes of your own which being false to the vnlearned reader I might seeme to speake fondly and besides al truth For how is it likely I should saie that touching Direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Your fetche was to bring your vnlearned fauourers by whom you are magnified to beleeue that from the Direction and gouernement of the Church I excluded Christe and the holy Ghoste the spirite of truth Which God forbid I should doo Now the true wordes of my Confutation in this place are these Defence Pag. 92. whiche the Reader maie see also in the booke of your Defence although very much mangled and falsified of set purpose to thintent the force of truth by me opened should not be seene as by view of my booke it maie clearely appeare Where thus I saie For Head and Spouse alone he is of his kingdom in one respecte not alone in an other respect * Confut. fol. 44. a. left out by M. Ie. For a cleare declaration whereof it is to be vnderstanded that being of a Head maie be considered after two waies The being of a Head considered tvvo vvaies either according to the inward influence so as the vertue and power of mouing and of sense is deriued from the head vnto the other members or according to outward gouernment right so as a man is directed in his outward actes according to the sight and other senses AccordiÌ„g to it ward influence of grace Christe onely is Head of the Churche In respect of outvvard gouernement the name of Head is attributed to others beside Christe which haue their roote in the head Now the inwarde influence of grace is not of any other but of Christe only Bicause Christes manhood onely hath power to iustifie for that the same only is ioyned personally to the Godhead * According to this inward influence of Grace Christ properly and only is Head of his mystical body the Church But as touching
proufe is nedelesse the thing is manifest * Harding Here treating of Succession as thou seest Reader I haue among other things brought forth TertulliaÌ„ demauÌ„ding of the Heretikes the Original of their Churches Tertul. lib. de praescription and the Register of their Bishops succeding one an an other from the beginning til his tyme. Againe I haue alleged S. Augustine naming 38. Popes of Rome in order August Epist 165 and thereof coÌ„cluded that bicause neuer a one of them was a Donatist the Donatists were al Heretikes Whereupon I also concluded that seing among al the Popes from S. Peter til this daie none was of M. Iewels opinion he and his felowes the Zuinglians and Caluinistes must by the rule S. of Augustine be taken for Heretiques For the true Churche is where the true ordinarie and manifest Succession is from the Apostles til these our dayes This only I require of thee gentle reader that thou woldest vouchesafe to reade this matter through and not to iudge before al be heard For in deede following M. Iewelles confuse order of writing I could not dispose my thinges in such Methode and Order as the weight of the matter requireth Bicause the matter is of importance I intend to leaue out no parte of M. Iewelles woordes whereby he maie seeme to impugne the Catholique doctrine And by the treatie of this one poynte it will appeare what huge bookes we should write if we should directe a ful answer to euerie parte of his idle talke in the pretensed Defence conteined Thus then he beginneth Iewel Pag. 127. Here hath M. Harding taken some paines more then ordinarie He thought if he could by any coloure make the vvorld beleeue vve haue neither Bisshoppes nor Priestes nor Deacons this daie in the Church of England he might the more easily claime the vvhole right vnto himselfe And in deede if it vvere certaine that the religion and truth of God passeth euermore orderly by Succession and none othervvise then vvere Succession vvhereof he hath tolde vs so long a tale a verie good substantial Argument of the Truth Harding Irenaeus saith it is a certaine Rule to knowe the Truth by For hauing reckened twelue Popes who in order succeded after S. Peter to wit Linus Anacletus Clemens Euaristus Alexander Sixtus Telesphorus Hyginus Pius Aniceâ—â— Soter and Eleutherius who then was the twelfth Bishop from the Apostles Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 3. immediatly he saith thus Hac ordinatione successione ea quae est ab Apostolis in Ecclesia Traditio veritatis praeconiatio peruenit vsque ad nos Et est pleâ—issima haec â—stensio vnim eandem viuificatricem fidem esse quae in Ecclesia ab Apostolis vsque nunc sit coÌ„seruata troditain veritate By this order and Succession the Tradition and preaching of the truth whiche is in the Churche from the Apostles time came euen to our daies And this is a most ful declaration that the faith whiche is kept in the Churche and deliuered in truth from the Apostles time euen til this present hower is the one selfe same faith which is the causer of life and of saluation He saith it is a most ful declaration of the true and liuely faith And you wil confesse I trow that where that faith is there is the true Churche of God Such a Succession of Bishoppes in diuers countries we haue and can shew it from the Apostles time til this daie As the rew and order of Popes in al Chronicles doth shew to the eie and witnesseth to the vnderstanding But such a Succession M. Iewel and his fellowes haue not therefore by his owne confession we haue a good substantial Argument of the Truth Iewel Pag. 127. But Christe saith In cathedra Moysi sederunt Scribae Pharisaei by order of succession the scribes Math. 22. and Pharisees sitte in Moyses chaier Harding Wel handled M. Iewel You bring these wordes as though Christe had spoken them in the reproche of Succession Whereas Christ in that place made an ArgumeÌ„t for Succession in this wise Super cathedram Moysi sederunt Scriba Pharisaei Math. 23. omnia ergo quaecunque dixerint vobis seruate facite Vpon the chaier of Moyses the Scribes and Pharisees haue sitten Therefore kepe ye and do ye what so euer they saie vnto you or commaund you to kepe Could you not see that Ergo M. Iewel whiche is to saie Therefore Could you not perceiue that Christ made a plaine argument why and why only the Scribes and Pharisees should be obeied The matter goeth as if in moe wordes it had ben thus said The Scribes and Pharisees be naughtie men their workes are not to be folowed they â—ie heauy and importable burdens laying them on mens shoulders Math. 23. but they themselues wil not so much as once mâ—â—â— them with their finger They do al their workes for a shew Thus Christ him selfe doth paint them forth al whiche notwithstanding for onely Successions sake bicause by order of Succession they sit in Moyses chaier which my father and I haue planted in respecte thereof doo ye and kepe what so euer they commaund you to doo and kepe Mark the vvord of keeping Marke that he bindeth the people to obeie the very Scribes for Successions sake and to obeye them in keeping and obseruing the former lawes and rites To keepe I saye Beware of that Bishop who not succeding but vsurping the Chaier of good men as M. Iewel doth hauing iustled him selfe into the Chaier of good S. Osmund and others mo in the Churche of Sarisburie doth yet commaund the people not to keepe thinges but to cast them away These nevv Bisshoppes vvil not the people to kepe their faith but to chaÌ„ge their faith There is no Bishop of this newe Religion that commaundeth the people to keepe their olde faith and law but alwaies he biddeth them to change it But Christe bad the people to doo that whiche the Pharisees commaunded them to keepe and not to folow their deedes The Pharisees killed Christe but by keeping their lawes and Orders they should neuer haue come thereto If euer place of holy Scripture made for any truth in the Gospel this place which M. Iewel bringeth against Succession maketh for it and so for it that it can neuer be auoided What Doctor euer wrote vpon the holy Scriptures who might not now be brought for a witnesse of this my assertion S. Augustine saith that Christe made the people secure concerning euil Rulers Ne propter illos doctrinae salutaris Cathedra descreretur August Epist 166. in qua coguntur etiam mali bona dicere Neque enim suae sunt quae dicunt sed Dei qui in cathedra Vnitatis doctrinam posuit veritatis Lest for their sakes the chaier of holesom Doctrine should be forsaken in the whiche yea wicked men are forced to saie that whiche is good For the thinges whiche they saie are not their owne but Gods who in
ad Antichristum velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent VVould God they vvere not al gonne by consent together from religion to superstition from saith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist These fevv vvordes considering either the speaker or the place vvhere they vvere spoken may seme sufficient Harding If you had considered either the speaker or the place so as you ought to haue donne you might haue benne ashamed to haue alleged the woordes of a Catholike Prelate for your purpose For what soeuer he meant by them you may be wel assured he meant not to say that the Catholique Churche was gonne from faith to infidelitie or from Christe to Antichrist Otherwise he him selfe would not haue stil continued in that Catholique Churche which had seemed to him to haue lacked faith Cornelius episcopus Bitōtinus and Christe But nowe the man is knowen in al Italie and is aliue to this daye who stil continueth in dayly preaching and in exhorting al men to flie from your heresies to the Catholike faith and to keepe them in the Churche so that his deedes do wel shewe what he meant by his wordes The whiche rule S. Augustine would haue kepte in the vnderstanding of what so euer Writers A lesson hovv to vnderstande mennes vvordes in matter of Religion Contra epist Parmen li. 3. cap. 4. and specially touching religion And who so euer doth not so vnderstand mennes wordes by their deedes vpon his blindnesse he cryeth out in this sorte Incredibilis est coecita hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tanta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorum factorúmque patesceret vsque adeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt commemorent sanctae Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis prophetarum quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarum It is an incredible blindnesse of menne and verely I knowe not howe it might be beleeued that there is suche frowardnesse in menne onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so fast closed that they allege the testimonies of holy scripture and do not consider by the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded And straight after where S. Augustine saith those wordes he sheweth by example what he meant Hieremie had written Hier. 2. what hath Chaffe to doo with the Wheate The Donatistes thereupon reasoned that the Catholikes were Chaffe and them selues Wheate but saith S. Augustine by waie of exposition there did Hieremie that said the Iewes were Chaffe forsake their Church and fellowship No verely How so euer then Hieremie the prophete meant we ought to vnderstand his wordes according to his deedes And seing as concerning his deedes he liued in one Temple and faith with them whom he called Chaffe we may be wel assured that by the name of Chaffe he meant not that the Iewes had not true Faith and Religion but only that they had not true Charitie and Obedience Euen so if M. Iewel would consider that the Bishop of Bitonto goeth not from Italie to Geneua nor to Germanie nor to England but both abideth stil in his Bisshoprike and hath so much preached against these present Heresies of Luther Zuinglius and Caluin that now three whole Volumes of his eloquent Italian Sermons are extant in print if he would haue considered this he might haue benne ashamed with such a great brauarie and so ofte to haue alleged a Catholike mannes woordes against Rome the mother Churche of al Catholikes S. Augustine calleth it an incredible blindnesse so to doo and suche as no man would beleeue except he saw it vsed But by whom Verely by Heretikes who hauing no truth for them doo stil make vaine bragges and shewes of woordes when the very deedes of them whose woordes they bring are against them Which thing I stand the longer vppon bicause M. Iewel hath vsed this practise aboue a thowsand times in his pretensed Defence M. Ievvel euery vvhere allegeth their vvordes for him vvhom by their deedes he vvel knoweth to be against him Aboue a thousand tymes I say he hathe alleged the woordes of Schoolemen Gloses Summistes and Canonistes for his purpose whereas he wel knoweth they beleeued al suche as he is to be detestable Heretiques and for suche condemned them Yet must they be brought in and that so often so seriouslie and with suche Preambles as though he woulde beare the worlde in hande they were cleare of his side Neither did Cornelius the Bisshoppe of Bitonto speake of the Bisshoppes of Rome specially as M. Iewel would beare the Readers in hande Bitōtinus in oratione habita in Concil Tridentino but generally of the Christians saying that they haue wandered like sheepe in hilles and feeldes and that the chiefe of them are turned from authoritie vnto Lordlynes from right vnto wronge and would God saith he they were not vtterly as it were with one consent bowed from Religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist Neither doth he say they are al gonne as M. Iewel englisheth the woordes Hovv M. Ievvel falsifieth his allegation The woorde al is not there Againe he saith not they are gonne by consent altogether but velut prorsus vnanimes as it were vtterly of one minde The worde velut as it were doth temper his woordes but M. Iewel hath leafte out velut and hath put in this worde al lest if the sentence of that Bishop should be thus tempered it should not seeme greuous inough His meaning was to complaine as euery good man dayly doth vppon the vices of menne who liue as if they had neither Faithe nor Religion And that woulde haue appeared most plaine if M. Iewel had not cutte of the later woordes of Cornelius vncourteously stopping him from telling out his whole tale For in the very same sentence it foloweth A Christo ad Antichristum quin à Deo ad Epicurum vel ad Pythagoram velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent Would God they had not as it were vtterly with one consent gonne a side from Christe to Antichriste yea rather from God to Epicure or to Pythagoras These last woordes whiche made al plaine were omitted by M. Iewel as his custome is and the authours tale is falsified and his woordes abused For any man woulde soone iudge that they goe not to Epicure or Pythagoras to the ende to mainteine the doctrine and opinions that those Philosophers helde Pardonne me good Reader if herein I seeme to long For at this tyme I doo but as it were geue thee a shewe what and howe muche might be said in euery other Article of the Booke if I thought it labour worthe to discusse them particularly For I assure thee in my conscience there is not any thing in this pretensed Defence whiche might not be wel and easily answered were not that it seemeth to me a thing both superfluous so to answere suche heapes of
Ye are like to whitted Sepulchres Matth. 23. Liers euil beastes slow bellies Tit. 1. God shal strike thee thou painted wal said S. Paule to Ananias Act. 23. O ye foolishe Galathians Galat. 3. False Apostles guileful workers 2. Cor. 11. The enemies of the Crosse of Christe whose bellye is their God Philip. 3. O ye stifnecked and vncircumcised in hartes and eares ye haue euer resisted the holy Ghost said S. Steuen vnto the Iewes Act. 7. As Iannes and Iambres withstode Moyses so these withstand the truth 2. Tim. 3. Hye minded proude blasphemous Ibidem Their worde creapeth forth like a canker 2. Tim. 2. Their tong is ful of deadly poison Iacob 3. These Dreamers defile the flesh despise rulers and speake euil of them that are in auctoritie Iudae As beastes whiche are without reason Woe be vnto them For they haue folowed the way of Cain and are vtterly geuen to the errour of Balaam for lucres sake and perish in the treason of Chore. Ibidem Why tempte ye me ye Ypocrites said Christe Matth. 22 Wo be vnto you Scribes and Pharisees Ypocrites Mat. 23 Wo be vnto you blinde guides Ibid. O ye fooles and blinde Ibid. Ypocrite first caste out the beame out of thine owne eye and then c. Matth. 7. It were not harde Christian Reader here to lay forth a greater heape of wordes gathered out of the Scriptures which M. Iewel reproueth in me as vncourteous and vnciuile and proceding altogether of choler But these few may suffice for shewe that if we consider wordes only and not the Circumstance of the sentence and the iuste cause why they were with such vehemencie vttered the holy Ghoste may seme also chargeable of vncourteous and vnciuile speache by whose prompting the Scriptures of God haue ben written If the matter of M. Iewels greuous accusation depende of wordes considered in them selfe onely the Scriptures haue wordes that being put a parte sownde more roughly then any yet by the written or by him noted And so farre is that pretensed fault in both Testamentes nolesse then in my bookes But if al be to be weighed by the sentences wherein suche woordes be placed and by the deserte of them in whose reproufe they be vttered as reason is it should then I appeale to al men of iudgement the dew circumstances and causes wel considered whether I haue at any time passed the bowndes of a zealous defender of the Catholique Religion whereof I make profession That the vse of sharpe speache is conuenient according to the desert of M. Iewel and of his felowes LEt the rehersal of my whole sentences with their circumstance in whiche the wordes be founde that doo so much offend be differred vntil anonne And here to turne thy tale vnto you M. Iewel and vnto your felowes lette it be lawful for me to come vnto the causes by whiche I was iustly moued so to write and to the very thinges them selfe for which ye deserue so to be written of The oddes betwixte M. Ievvel and them of his side and vs. and with such courtesie of wordes to be greeted Who be you M. Iewel and who be they of your side Who am I or rather who are we For of my selfe I am content no accompte be made but only as I apply myne endeuour to defende the Churche and the Catholique Faith by you impugned As for vs say the worst ye can of vs we are Catholiques By your owne confession your doctrine hath not benne in al Churches at al times taught and therefore ye haue tolde vs we knowe not what of your Church that it is inuisible secret vnknowen and lurketh in corners no man can tel where and therefore ye are not Catholique We remaine in that we haue receiued ye are departed from that ye receiued The doctrine for whiche ye make suche sturre is it not openly knowen to al from what men ye had it and how late ye learned it Where was this fifth Gospel so muche as whispered in any knowen corner of the worlde before that lewd Augustine Frier Martin Luther brake his vowe ranne out of his Cloister and yoked him selfe to his wanton Nonne Where was your Sacramentarie doctrine preached before Frier Huskin that new named him selfe Oecolampadius likewise brake his solemne promise to God forsooke his Religion and coupled him selfe to a young yoke fellowe Before their time who heard the sownde of your Gospel Where had ye any Dioces any Bishoppe any Church any Priest any Chappel any so much as a Parrish Clerke in the whole worlde Tel vs not as ye are woont of Wiklef Huss Ierome of Prague Berengarius Bertram and a few other which were but byles and botches in the Churche and be in no wise worthy the name of Churche Forgete not what you say in your Apologie that Luther and Zuinglius came first to the Gospel Remember ye cal that time the first appearing the spring and the first grasse as it were of your Gospel If it be so how be ye Catholique or how be ye of the Catholique Churche which is so called in respecte of the vniuersalitie of times Vincētius Lirinen places and personnes As for vs on the otherside we are hable to shew you the continuance of our faith and Doctrine by orderly successions of Bishops going vpward euen from those learned and holy Fathers whom for none other cause but only for the Catholique Faith of Christes Churche most vniustly ye kepe in Prison to S. Gregorie who sent godly Preachers to conuert the English people of our countrie vnto the Faith of Christe and from S. Gregorie further vpward vnto S. Peter and S. Paule that preached the Faith in Rome and consequently vnto Christe him selfe If we would speake vnto you in the person of the Catholique Church whereof we are a parte we might say vnto you those wordes of Tertullian spoken to Heretiques Mea est possessio olim possideo prior possideo Tertul. li. Praescript aduersus haereticos habeo origines firmas ab ipsis authoribus quorum fuit res Ego sum haeres Apostolorum The Scripture and the right sense of the Scripture is my possession I am in possession of olde I claime possession by former right The Churche continueth to the worldes ende vvithout al intermission Matt. 28 Iohan. 14 I haue the assured originals from the first authours by whom it was set forth It is I that am the Apostles heire The Churche M. Iewel as ye ought to knowe continueth from Christes Ascension vnto the ende of the worlde without intermission and without exception of any age or yeres Wil ye haue vs proue it What can we say if ye wil not beleeue Christe nor God him selfe I wil be with you saith Christe al daies vnto the ende of the worlde Againe I wil beseche my Father and he shal geue you an other conforter to remaine with you for euer the Spirite of truthe whiche the worlde can not receiue God saith to Christe in
sure of it that he is not ashamed to allege it againe worde for worde in the pretensed Defence pag. 617. where he beginneth the sentence thus in Latine Iohannes Papa 22. decreuit c. and thus coteth the place Gerson in sermone Paschali It is a fowle thing M. Iewel and a wicked impudencie thus to belye the Doctours Certaine it is Gerson neuer said it nor in sermone Paschali as you reporte nor any where elles that this Pope Iohn made any suche Decree Neither was his errour as you vntruly burthen him that the Soules of the wicked should not be pounished before the daie of the laste Iudgement That ye write touching this Pope either proceedeth of malice or of ignorance If ye be malicious God amende you if ye be ignorant thus ye maie vnderstand the truth What was the propre errour of Pope Iohn 22. touching the Soules departed The errour of Pope Iohn the. 22. was not that the Soules of the wicked be not pounished before the daie of the laste Iudgement but that the soules of the good see not the face of God before the laste daie His Position or opinion was conceiued with these termes as the Scholastical Doctours then vsed to speake or the like as we finde in Adrianus that learned Pope Adrianus in 4. SententiaruÌ„ quaest de SacrameÌ„to Confirmationis and in the Extrauagante of Pope Benedictus vndecimus who succeded him nexte Animae purgatae ante finale Iudicium non habent stolam quae est clara facialis Visio Dei That is to saie The purified or cleansed Soules haue not their Stole whiche is the cleare vision of God and sighte face to face before the final Iudgement This mater was muche disputed of among the learned Diuines of that time The Question was thus propounded as it appeareth by Benedictus Extrauagante â—enedictus 11. in Extrauagante An anima iustorum hominum in quibus nihil erat purgabile cùm de hoc seculo decesserunt vel si quid erat iam purgatum fuerat ex toto post mortem suam videant Diuinam essentiam ante corporum suorum resumptionem iudicium generale As muche to saie in English whether the Soules of iuste menne in whiche there was nothing to be purged when they departed out of this worlde or if there were any thing the same had ben now wholly purged after their death see the Diuine essence before the receiuing againe of their bodies and before the general Iudgement Of this Question some Doctours then helde the affirmatiue some the negatiue Amongst them that helde the Negatiue this Pope Iohn 22. was one before he was Pope and perhaps also afterward But he helde it only as his priuate opinion As touching Decree or definition in that behalfe either against or with the truth doubtelesse it can not be proued by any storie of estimation that he made any Who of al menne is more to be beleeued herein then Benedictus the eleuenth that was Cardinal in his time and succeded him This Benedictus saith that Pope Iohn prepared him selfe to make a Decision and a perfite determination of that question And to thintent the truth might be exactly tried out he gaue coÌ„maundement in his publique Consistorie whereat the said Benedictus was then present as he saith him selfe vnto the Cardinals Prelates and Doctors of diuinitie who were there in great number to prouide for the due examination of that questioÌ„ that when they should be required euery man should saie deliberately what he thought of it Yet saith Benedictus being preuented by death as it pleased our Lorde he could not performe that he inteÌ„ded The same was perfourmed by Benedictus streight after Pope Iohns death Now this was an errour in Pope Iohn I denie not Yet for the same is not he to be accompted an heretique as neither S. Irenaeus Theophylactus and S. Bernarde are who seme to haue bene of the same opinion as it is by some learned menne gathered and iudged of certaine sayinges founde in their workes Certainely it was no heresie for so muche as the matter was not at that time expressely defined by the Churche but afterward by Benedictus the eleuenth and at length by the Councel of Florence vnder Eugenius the fourth This is the vntrue doctrine of Pope Iohn 22. of which Gerson speaketh farre otherwise then M. Iewel reporteth him in a Sermon that he made before the Frenche king then being in festo Paschali In that Sermon hauing vttered a fewe sentences touching Peace taking occasion of his Theme whiche was that Christ said to his disciples Pax vobis after his praiers made and the Theme repeated againe euen after the maÌ„ner that Preachers in England vsed in the catholik times thus he beginneth Gerson Serm. 1. in Festo Paâ—schali Saluator noster verus miles c. Iesus Christe our Sauiour and true knighte streight after his blessed Passion in the first instant of his death whiche was on the frydaie at the nynth hower went downe vnto Hel to geue the true peace the peace of glorie and blisse vnto his frendes the Patriarkes Prophetes and the other iuste that were in Limbo Patrum that is to saie in the resting place of the Fathers And it is verely to be beleeued that he gaue this glorious peace to al them that were in Purgatorie and that he deliuered them as a king doth at his first ioyous comming vnto a place And of purpose this did he vnto the Theefe who of likelyhoode had not yet fulfilled his penaunce for al his sinnes who was in that very houre made blessed and saw God face to face as the Saintes doo in Paradise This daie saith Christe shalt thou be with me in Paradise Luke 23. Immediatly vpon this folow the wordes by whiche it appeareth that by verdite of Gerson Pope Iohns errour was as is afore said For there he saith Propter quod apparet falsitas doctrinae Papae Iohannis 22. quae damnata fuit cum sono buccinarum vel tubarum coram rege Philippo auunculo tuo per Theologos Parisienses c. For the which thing the falshed of the doctrine of Pope Iohn the. 22. appeareth whiche was condemned at the sounde of Trumpets before king Philip thy vncle by the Diuines of Paris Remember good Reader this errour of Iohn 22. was not condemned by the Diuines of Paris when he was Pope but before when he was a priuate Doctor and liued in the realme of Fraunce Whom notwithstanding Gerson calleth Pope for that he was Pope afterward and died Pope And thus wrote Gerson of him long after his death Laie al this and that I said before in my Confutation together M. Iewel and this matter of Pope Iohn the. 22. is fully answered and you remaine stil charged with Vntruthe and al the scorneful talke that you vtter of Purgatorie in your pretensed defence page 617. is founde vaine light and vnlearned and vtterly beside the purpose For the question wherein Pope
against Gods Truth I had thought M. Iewel that the doctrine whiche teacheth vs to obeye God more then menne were fulfilled rather by suffering the penaltie of mans lawe or wil being contrarie to Goddes Lawe and wil then by resisting man put in authoritie by God as S. Peter who wrote the foresaid wordes suffered scourging Act. 5. contumelies and emprisonment rather then he would obey the Magistrate commaunding him not to preache nor teache in the name of Iesus If the prince commaunde Heresie or Idolatrie the waie to obey both God and the Prince is to keepe thee from yelding to Heresie or committing of Idolatrie and for Goddes sake to susteine the pounishment what soeuer the Prince putteth vpon the breakers of his commaundement For it is two thinges and much different to obey the Prince in an vnlawful request and to take Armes against the Prince Round capped Ministers Both we God be praised for the Catholike faith and your Rounde capped Ministers for their Cappes and Hattes refuse to obey the Quenes Maiesties commaundement The Prīce not to be obeied by M. Iewels Diuinitie vvhen Gods cause is touched touching matters of conscience bicause we knowe right wel and they pretende to thinke also that by suche commaundement of the Prince Goddes glorie is touched In whiche case you saie M. Iewel the Prince is not to be obeyed Yet God be praised neither we nor they doo take Armes or attempte any force against our Prince as these Nobles of Scotland haue done We haue not so learned S. Peters lesson We haue not so learned to obeye God more then man But we doo rightly iudge and protest such demeanure to be an open disobediēce both to God and to man And yet saie you M. Iewel and that in your booke dedicated for a singular present vnto the Quenes most excellent Maiestie that these Nobles of Scotland had learned S. Peters lesson Tel vs in good sooth if the Catholike Nobilitie and Commons of England who take your heresies to be against Gods truthe as they are in deede shoulde deale with the Quenes Maiestie for matters of Religion whiche God forbid as the Nobles of Scotland haue dealte with their liege Soueraine would you defende their so doing by S. Peter and the prophete Dauid and saie that God is more to be obeyed then man I perceiue you are so selfe willed and so addicted to your faction that if you were a Papiste you would doo no lesse and be as ready to helpe suche a matter forwarde in England as Beza your good brother in Fraunce as the Gues here in the lowe Countries and as Knox in Scotland haue benne But we openly protest before God and the worlde that we condemne and defie al such attemptes I meane that any Subiecte or Subiectes what so euer of their owne priuate authoritie should take Armes against their Prince for matters of Religion This we doo teache to be plaine disobedience bothe to God and to the Prince This haue your Nobles of Scotland done more then once And therefore you haue done vntruely and lewdly I wil not saie traiterously to the preiudice of the Quenes Maiesties owne safetie in defending them and in calling their outragious attemptes suche obedience as S. Peter taught which was suche Treason and Rebellion as S. Paule condemneth Rom. 13. saying Let euery soule be subiecte to the higher powers c. The Doctours whom you allege make clearely against those Nobles Leo de passione Domini Serm. 10. whose rebellion you defende Leo saith To geue vnto Caesar that whiche is Caesars is not to rebel against Caesar but to helpe Caesar But your Nobles rebelled against their Prince Ergo they gaue not that to Caesar whiche was Caesars Againe the Christians of whom S. Ambrose speaketh Ambrosius lib. 5. Epist 33. said to the Emperour Rogamus Auguste non pugnamus we beseche thee Noble Emperour we fight not But your Nobles fought against their Prince they humbly besought not their Prince And yet ô extreme impudencie these places you allege to shewe the obedience of those Nobles After this as thoughe al the eares of Englande were stopped and their wittes bewitched you conclude in this wise Iewel pag. 17. To conclude the Queene of Scotland is stil in quiet possession of her estate Harding And what wil you sticke to saie or write M. Iewel whiche doo saie write and set out in printe suche a palpable and manifest falsehod Suche I saie as euen the very Tankerdbearers of London and al others of the basest sorte besides can witnesse against you What was not the Queene of Scotland of late imprisoned in her owne realme And had she not benne in prison long before your booke came forth And is a Prince cast in prison by his owne Subiectes stil in quiet possession of his estate What wil you make vs beleeue that the Reuerend Fathers the old and only true Bishoppes of our countrie are nowe stil in quiet possession of their Bishoprikes whom al England knoweth to haue susteined emprisonment these eight yeres and more for their constant profession Gods holy name be blessed of Gods Truthe Goe M. Iewel and tel this tale in the new founde Ilandes of India For not only al England but al Fraunce Spaine Germanie Italie yea as it maie be thought a good parte of Turkie it selfe can controlle you of this most infamous lye that the Queene of Scotland is stil in quiet possession of her estate God keepe you and your brethren in suche a quiet possession if ye wil teache the truthe no better then in this Princes daies ye haue taughte Yet you adde farther and saie of the Quene of Scotland Iewel Ibidem And shee is obeied of her subiectes as farre as is conuenient for godly people to obey their Prince Harding Lo a Quene being the right prince of a realme violently and besides al order of law by her subiectes thrust out of her roial estate is yet obeied of her subiectes so farre as is conuenient for godly people to obey their Prince Then by your doctrine M. Iewel it is conuenient for godly people violently to bereue their prince of princely estate if they like not his Religion and yet in so doing they obey Let vs suppose halfe a realme to be Catholiques whom ye cal Papistes halfe Protestantes Shal the Papistes depose their Protestant Prince shal the Protestant Subiectes depose their Papist Prince If ye teache not this what is that ye teache Are not you nowe one of them that teache Subiectes to take Armes against their Prince Thus muche and more whiche I omitte haue you said of the Quene of Scotland and yet how promised you that you woulde saie nothing Truely it had benne better for you and more for your honestie to haue said nothing in deede and to haue dissembled the whole matter as you haue done many other special matters and suche as be of greatest importance in my Confutation then thus to haue bewraied your traiterous
so it be imagined to be planted in stockes stones trees grasse rootes fire water earth aier and brute beastes If not in multitude of personnes why is it said dominabitur à mari ad mare Psal 71. à flumine vsque ad terminos orbis terrarum he shal beare rule from sea to sea and from the riuer to the vttermost coastes of the world If not in multitude of persons what meant God the Father to say vnto Christ his Sonne Psal 2. as Dauid prophecied Aske of me and I wil geue vnto thee the Nations for thine inheritance and the endes of the earth for thy possession If not in multitude of personnes Apologie why triumphe ye so in your Apologie bicause al the worlde doth nowe beginne as you saie to beholde the light of your Gospel mightily spred abroade If not in multitude of personnes why is it said to Abraham Gen. 22. in semine tuo benedicentur omnes gentes in thy seede al nations shal be blessed Why is it said to the Apostles Math. vlt. euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eos in nomine patris filij Spiritus sancti Goo ye and teache ye al nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghoste Why sayd Christe to his Apostles Act. 1. Eritis mihi testes in Hierusalem in omni Iudaea Samaria vsque ad vltimum terrae Ye shal beare witnesse of me in Hierusalem and in al Iewrie and in Samaria and vnto the vttermost partes of the worlde Knowe you not M. Iewel This opinion of M. Ievvel tendeth to the heresie of the Donatistes that S. Augustine allegeth al these and many mo such places against the Donatistes And what meane you After al these Heresies of our wretched time shal we haue also a Donatiste of you Menne marueile much why you are so contrarie to your selfe and that you lacke the discretion to discerne what maketh with you and what maketh against you What discretion was that to bring in S. Augustines authoritie that saith the Churche is called Catholique bicause it is spred throughout the whole worlde to prooue that the Catholique Churche standeth not in multitude of personnes Can the Churche be spred abrode into euery parte of the worlde without multitude of personnes Pag. 94. Or wil ye the two personnes you talke of out of Fortalitium Fidei M. Ievvel saieth the Catholique Churche standeth in the vveight of Truth and as for personnes it may stand in tvvo should bodily replenish euery quarter of the worlde and contrarie to your selfe graunt that one body may be in diuerse places at one time Or wil you the Weight of Truthe wherein the Catholique Churche standeth as you saie to wander rounde aboute the worlde tanquam accidens sine subiecto Or meane you by your two personnes out of Fortalitium alleged to appointe the Churche to be onely not as the Donatistes did in Aprica alone excluding al the quarters of the worlde besides whiche is more tolerable but in some two personnes as for example your selfe perhappes and M. Grindal or Frier Whitehed or Frier Couerdal or some one or other of the Puritanes and that al the rest of the Realme are no members of your Catholique Churche Or meane you in the excluding of the multitude of personnes to leaue your selfe some refuge if it happen your number to decay to the inuisible Churche as ye were wont to doo being driuen into any narrowe streightes by drifte of reason where menne shal haue as muche comforte of preaching of the Sacramentes and of good examples as the hungrie man hath comforte in his great hunger if it be his fortune to finde a stone Consider wel of your folie M. Iewel in the allegation of S. Augustine and weigh with your iudgement how contrary he is to your doctrine Aug. li. de Genes ad literaÌ„ imperfect cap. 1. He saith that the Catholique Churche is vniuersally perfited and halteth in nothing Meaning thereby that the Churche can not erre ne can not be deceiued This speaketh he expressely of the Churche that is spred throughout the whole worlde that is to say of the visible Churche Your doctrine is that the visible Churche doth erre hath erred and may erre as wel in Doctrine as in manners Thus you see your lucke is very il in the allegation of Fathers in that you beare vs in hande they make with you when they make fully against you Ibidem The truthe say you be it in many or in fewe is euer Catholique And what if it were in none at al Were it not also Catholique If no then the substance of truthe as it is truthe muste needes depende vppon some person and to haue the same called Catholique Lirinensis and S. Augustine telleth you that it must be euery where euermore and of al sortes of menne be beleeued If yea then haue ye once found out a Catholike truthe and a Catholique Churche planted not onely in a fewe personnes but in no personnes at al. The case that Fortalitium Fidei setteth out by waie of supposition which you allege though vntruly as your custom is for his wordes are not duo homines but duo veri fideles hath taken place in Adam and Eue Also in Noe and his smal familie But take the worlde as it is now ful of people I aske you whether it be agreable with Scripture to saie that the Catholique Church consisteth onely and alone in any two personnes as for exemple in M. Iewel if you wil and Sir Iames Proctor your worthy Chauncellour or in any two others But how saie you wil not the Prophete Dauid be founde altogether contrarie and put you in minde of the verse Postula à me Psal 2. dabo tibi gentes haereditatem tuam possessionem tuam terminos terrae Aske of me saith the Prophete in the person of God the Father speaking of the dilatation of Châ—istes Churche and I wil geue thee the Gentiles for thine inheritance and thy possession the vttermost Coastes of the worlde Can you M. Iewel make that narrow and smal to serue your turne which the whole Scripture openly auoucheth to be great and large Whereas you defende Luthers dogge eloquence by the great zeale he had of Goddes glorie and of his holy Temple Luthers eloqueÌ„ce defended by M. Ievvel eadem Pag. 94. Matthaeus Iudex after that you haue once read ouer Matthaeus Iudex a Lutheran and seene how Luther raileth at Oecolampadius and Zuinglius your graund Captaines yea the patriarkes of your progenie and considered by what names he calleth them saying they are as euil as the Deuil him selfe it is likely you wil repente that you euer became his aduocate who so roughly handleth them that are the founders of your owne Synagog In the very nexte line before you allege my wordeâ— with the vehemencie of whiche you doo greatly dislike your selfe in
you maie doo muche and beguile the simple yet thinke not but the wise doo see whyther the maintenaunce of this doctrine tendeth It is il haulting before kreples they saie Truly I iudge this haulting wil appeare muche worse before princes They had neede take heede sith that ye are so bolde with them that they fal not into deadly sinne least soone after by this Doctrine they be driuen out of their kingdomes The authorities in this place by you alleged out of S. Chrysostome S. Ambrose S. Gregorie S. Cyprian Pag. 117. do not meane that such as are il liuers doo lose the Sacrament of Orders once had whiche to saie were a very great and an olde condemned heresie of the Donatistes but that al suche doo not liue as the dignitie of Priestes and Bisshoppes doth require and that they be not suche as haue al the good vertues and qualities that Priestes and Bisshoppes ought to haue Many thinges are for certaine respectes denied whiche absolutely are not denied Al that in a respecte is denied is not absoluely denied Psal 21. Ephes 6. Ego sum vermis non homo I am a worme saith the Prophete speaking of Christe and not a man Wil you hereof by like Logique conclude that Christes humanitie is denied Non est nobis colluctatio aduersus carnem sanguinem we haue no wrastling against flesh and bloude saith the Apostle in some respecte bicause our principal conflicte is not against flesh and bloud and yet we haue a conflicte and a great conflicte against fleshe and bloude and are commaunded therefore to crucifie the fleshe with his lustes Galat. 6. But bicause the Apostle saith so shal we denie that we haue to wrastle and fight against fleshe and bloude at al I trow you nor your felowes are not yet so spiritual but that ye wil confesse ye haue to fight against the fleshe Verely the world seeth your workes be not yet al of the spirite but some of the fleshe Iewel Pag. 118. If the name of Vniuersal Bishop be a provvde name in others vvhy maie it not also be a provvde name in the Bishop of Rome Harding The name of Vniuersal Bishop is not a proude name in the Pope bicause he hath it of right The .39 Chapt. Bicause the worde taken in the right sense is the very right that our Sauiour Christe gaue to S. Peter and to his Successours whiche right of vniuersal regiment he gaue not to others You maie as wisely reason thus If the name of a Queene be a prowde name applied to Margerie Horne M. Hornes dame of Winchester why maie it not also be a prowde name in Elizabeth the lawful Queene With suche geare you fil vp your paper and like a great Clerke set vs out great bookes ful fraughte with stuffe of smal substance and lesse honestie Iewel Pag. 118. May Pride be humilitie and humilitie Pride onely in respecte of diuers personnes Harding Pride is Pride and humilitie is humilitie in what so euer personne Neither can euer the one be the other But that thing whiche is prowdly or with pride donne of one man maie of an other man be donne humbly and without al breache of humilitie You might haue demaunded many wiser questions then this Know you not that the title of honour whiche is due to any person maie be acknowledged of the same without any pride at al S. Paule offended not in pride when he said he was an Apostle sent not of menne nor by man Gal. 1. Iewel Pag. 119. Likevvise Chrysostome saith Dist 40. Multi Quicunque desiderauerit primatum in terra inueniet in coelo confusionem nec inter seruos Christi computabitur qui de primatu tractauerit VVho so euer desireth primacie in earth in Heauen he shal finde confusion neither shal he be accompted emong the seruantes of Christe that vvil once intreate of primacie Harding If that be the saying of S. Chrysostome A forged saying at tributed to S Chrysostome why did you not quote the place And why make ye so muche a do for the Primacie of the Queenes highnesse in Ecclesiastical maters within the Realme Intende you to bring your selfe and her highnesse into Confusion and to shut your selfe out of Heauen S. Chrysostome hath no suche saying That which goeth before in Gratian is taken out of Opus imperfectum in Matthaeum Homil. 43. in cap Matth. 23. Maximinus Arrianus whiche is wel knowen not to be S. Chrysostomes and witht great probabilitie though to be the worke of an Arrian Heretique named Maximinus But this saying whiche here you allege out of Gratian is neither there nor in S. Chrysostome It is a forgerie and that you knewe wel ynough Yet you are not ashamed to vse it to deceiue the ignorant Reader Leaue leaue M. Iewel to abuse the simplicitie of the vnlearned with suche forged peeces and patches What you allege out of S. Chrysostome truly or out of any other Doctor we shal soone answer it by Goddes grace For we are sure that truthe alwaies agreeth with truthe As for suche forgeries we returne them backe to you againe But bicause bothe you M. Iewel and others the chiefe Pillers of your side haue said so muche touching the name of Vniuersal Bisshop and haue so vehemently inueighed against the Pope for the same bearing the vnlearned in hande ye haue a great aduantage against vs therein I thinke it good and necessarie here to treate more fully thereof and to shewe how litle ye are to be trusted as wel in this as in many other pointes of Doctrine and howe farre ye abuse the vnlearned Reader by misreporting the thirde Councel of Carthage being deceiued if it be errour and not wilful malice by a place of Gratian very ignorantly and grossely mistakeÌ„ M. Iewels Forgerie concerning the name of Vniuersal Bisshop The 40. Chapt. Vniuersal vvhiâ—therby is signified This woorde Vniuersal doth importe asmuche as one in al and al in one For the name of Vniuersalitie leaueth nothing vncomprised so that if any man be properly the vniuersal Patriarke or Bishop there is no Patriarke or â—ishop which is not in him and which he is not Therefore when Ihon of Constantinople named and wrote him selfe Vniuersal Patriarke or Bishop albeit perhaps he meant not thereby to derogate from al other Patriarkes and Bishops but only to make him selfe equal with the best whiche now also M. Iewel liketh wel of and defendeth it for lawful yet S. Gregorie and before him Pope Pelagius consydering the sclaunder that might rise by occasion of that proude Title did worthily resiste the said name and stile as proude and wicked bothe in it selfe and specially in the Bishop of Constantinople For if any man lyuing should take any such name vnto him it should be the first and chiefe of al Bishops which is the Bishop of Rome But he doth not so ne neuer didde so as the truthe is therefore much lesse any other Bishop
seing we are at variance let vs resorte to the very beginning and to the Original which is our Lordes worde and the Apostolike Tradition This was wel said But the Apostolike Tradition was so as Pope Steuen defended and not so as S. Cyprian woulde haue had it And this M. Iewel neither doo you nor can you denie For your selfe I trow wil not allow that they should be baptized againe in your owne Churche that haue ben before baptized in an other Churche which ye accompte for false heretical or schismatical What meant you then to consecrate S. Cyprians errour and to allege his authoritie therein where it ought not to be admitted and allowed But with you the ouersightes of the Fathers the errours of the Greekes the sayinges of heretiques the examples of Schismatiques the obiections of Schoolemen and Canonistes and the pelfe of Gloses is alwaies good stuffe Iewel S. Cyprian saith If the Pipes of the conduite vvhich before ranne vvith abundance happen to faile do vve not vse to searche to the head Harding Yeas if they could faile But in Christes Churche the Pipes can not faile The Pipes of the CoÌ„duite of Christes Church can neuer faile Math. 28. bicause Christe promised to be with his Apostles and thereby with their Successours al daies vntil the worldes ende If the Pipes of Christes grace and of his Churche faile to runne any one daie then is not Christe that daie with his Pastours and teachers and consequently he is not al daies or euery daie with them But if his worde can not be false then the Pipes neuer failed ne shall not faile and that was wel seene in S. Cyprians question For although they in Afrike had cut of the Pipes by force in changing the former custome and Tradition yet in Rome the Pipes ranne stil and therefore Christe was stil with the Bishops of Rome and with the other Bishops who remained in his Communion Example of agreeing in coÌ„munion vvhere is disagreeing in opinion Yea Christe was also with S. Cyprian bicause S. Cyprian departed not from Pope Steuens Communion But he was with S. Cyprian not in that question wherein he dissented from the Pope but in that he consented and agreed with the Pope For he both dissented concerning the particulare case and consented concerning the general bond of vnitie wishing to haue his owne sentence followed but if it were not followed as it was not content to yelde to his brethren rather then to breake of and to make a Schisme For thus he endeth that epistle which he wrote in that argument to Iubaianus Cyprianus Ad IubaianuÌ„ de Haereticis baptizaÌ„d Si quis putatur contentiosus esse nos talem consuetudinem noÌ„ habemus neque Ecclesia Dei. Seruatur à nobis patienter firmiter charitas animi collegij honor vinculum fidei et concordia Sacerdotij If any man be thought to be geuen to strife and debate we haue no such custome nor the Churche of God The Charitie of minde the honour of the societie the bonde of faith and the concorde of Priesthoode is both patiently and firmely keepte of vs. If M. Iewel if before him Luther and Caluine if al the rest of these Gospellers had none otherwise dissented from the Pope and the whole college of Bishops then S. Cyprian did they might haue ben saued as he vndoubtedly is a glorious Martyr in heauen But they imagined the Pipes whereby grace faith and al other giftes are deriued from Christ vnto vs to haue ben broken of for the space of these nine huÌ„dred yeres past deuised with them selues how they might repaire to the head and so might fetche the watter of life vnto vs by new Conduites and Pipes But they were deceiued For after Christe did once set the Pipes a ronning they neuer ceassed nor shal ceasse to ronne til the day of iudgement For the holy Ghost is promised to abide with the Apostles Ioan. 14. Esai 59. The B. of Rome is the successour of Peter Cyprian lib. 4. epi. 2 ad antâ—nianum Luc. 22. and their Successours in aeternum for euer And their Successours are the Bishops And as the Chiefe of the Apostles was S. Peter so S. Cyprian saith of Fabianus who was Bishop of Rome two hundred yeres after S. Peter Cùm Fabiani locus id est cùm locus Petri gradus Cathedrae sacerdotalis vacaret when the place of Fabian that is to say when the place of Peter and the steppe or degree of the Priestly Chaire was voide So that as Peters faith was most specially prayed for and that not only for his owne sake but to the ende he should strengthen and confirme his brethren euen so was euery Bishop of Romes Faith prayed for to the ende euery one might strengthen and confirme his brethren whiche are al Bishoppes in the truthe of the Faith and in the Gouernement of the flocke That Succession of the Bishop of Rome Augu. in in psalmuÌ„ coÌ„t parteÌ„ Donati and of the See of Peter is the Rocke which as S. Augustine saith the proude gates of Hel do not ouercome So he said eleuen hundred yeres past so vntil this howre the thing it selfe proueth so doo we beleeue that it shal be perfourmed by him that promised it vntil the worldes ende bicause it is the Rocke whiche shal euer confesse the true Faith and feede the sheepe of Christ and staye vp the howse of God and confirme al the faithful that leane vnto it Thus haue I confuted M. Iewel your treatise of Succession The Pipe of Christes doctrin hath coÌ„tinued in the catholike Churche onely which I tooke in hande specially to treate of bicause it sheweth most euidently that ye haue no true Churche bicause ye can shew no Pipe or Conduicte which from Christ vntil your Sectes hath stil continued ronning or hath stil deriued his doctrine and grace vnto them of your side It is the Catholike Church whiche you cal the Papistical Church which hath that Pipe and can euidently shew where the streame hath gonne and how it hath ben mainteined from age to age from generation to generation yea from man to man without any interruption Isai 62. Matth. 5. Philipp 2. Matt. 28. Ioan. 14. 16. Esai 59. 1. Timo. 3. Such should the state of the Churche be according to Gods worde where watche men should neuer holde their peace where the citie built vpon the hil can not be hid where the children of light shine like sterres in the middest of the infidelles where Christe is al dayes vnto the worldes ende where the holy Ghoste is for euer teaching al truthe where the piller and sure staye of truthe is visibly seene as with whiche menne be conuersant in this worlde as S. Paule saith where to be shorte Ioan. 21. Christes sheepe are fed of Peter al abiding within the vnitie of his one Folde in this worlde thence and thence only to be transferred vnto the glorious Pasture of life
alleged For pride is no substance nor creature at al. Man only in his vnderstanding considereth it as somewhat whereas it is only a defecte and failing from humilitie For God neuer made vice Pride is a vice and therefore 〈…〉 But what shal a man saie to this fellow When the name of Substance seemeth to make for him then it standeth properly as the Philosophers vse the worde which is in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but when it seemeth to make against him then it standeth for grace faith wordes and Sacramentes which in some writers are named Substance as the diuines somtimes vse the terme whereto the Greeke terme Hypostasis answereth as S. Paule vseth it Heb. 11. How the Church is resolued in doubtful cases The truth is that seing wordes for the more parte are doubteful ambiguous and subiect to cauilles Christ hath not planted his Church in such sorte vpon wordes that his faithful members should thereby be diuided into many sectes For as he considering our infirmitie lefte vnto vs his holy wil conceiued in such wordes as menne vse in their common speache he lefte also with those wordes a high Pastor Iohan. 21. Luc. 22. by whom we should be fed for whose faith he prayed and his prayer is heard To which chiefe Pastor he gaue power and commaundement to strengthen and cōfirme his brethren So that it is in dede litle worth to hange of syllables and letters but it behoueth vs alwaies to seeke for the meaning of the worde And bicause we should neuer agree among our selues vpon wordes Math. 18. he bound vs to heare the Church the chiefe and ordinarie mouth whereof S. Peter was whiles he liued and after him the Bishops of Rome his Successours haue euer had the same place He then that wil be sure to know how euery worde that belongeth to matter of the faith must be taken in this or in that place of holy Scripture or of holy writers must be ruled by the mouth of his chiefe Pastor Act. 20. Now that Pastor calling to him out of al the worlde the chiefe and best learned Bishoppes ordeined by the holy Ghoste Gouernours of particular flockes hauing seene and heard al that might be said too and fro in the middest of foure hundred threescore and ten Bishoppes and of moe then a thousand learned Diuines besides the assistance of the holy Ghoste called for mature deliberation had and diligent examination of the Scriptures and holy Fathers made founde and by al their consente determined Concil Lateranen ca. 1. that the substance of bread and wine in the Sacrament of the Aulter is by the power of Gods worde changed into the substance of Christes Body and Bloud After whiche determination we know how Gelasius and how Theodoritus must of necessitie be vnderstanded if at the lest we wil heare the Churche as vnder paine of damnation we are bound to doo This answer may suffice al the cauilles that are moued and tossed by M. Iewel touching nature substance subsistence or any like worde Al wordes are ambiguous as S. Augustine confesseth In lib. de Dialecti The highest iudge in the highest courte of Christendome hath geuen sentence He that obeieth hath humilitie and seeth his grounde He that being loth to seeme deceiued wrangleth as M. Iewel doth is proude vaine contentious and disobedient which custome Heretikes haue and euer haue had but as S. Paule saith 1. Cor. 11. the Church of God hath it not Iewel Pag. 262. 263. To leaue these vnfruitful gheasses vve saie that the cuppe of blessing vvhich Christ calleth the Cuppe of the nevv Testament notvvithstanding it vvere made in a Mysterie the Sacrament of Christes Bloude yet in nature and substance vvas very vvine stil and as Christe him selfe calleth it the very fruite and generation of the grape as it vvas before The vvordes of the Euangelist S. Mathevv are very plaine Harding Would God I could so clearely shew to the Reader as the weight of this matter requireth how lewdly you playe as wel with the Gospel as with me It is not I M. Iewel that am incōstant in saying now these wordes were spoken before consecration and now after and perhaps at both times whereat you ieast and scoffe it is not I that changed my minde But whereas one of the Euangelistes telleth the matter one waye and the other an other waye and whereas sometimes they tel thinges out of order as your selfe can not but graunt my answer must needes be such as by al meanes to saue the truthe of the Gospel that howsoeuer these wordes were spoken which be obscure yet the plaine truth should not be hindred by them You sticke to the plaine wordes of S. Matthew as you saie And why sir I praye you may not I as wel claime that S. Lukes wordes are as plaine Luc. 22. I then haue myne eye to bothe and so make a distinction shewing how bothe together may be defended You litle esteming S. Luke talke to vs onely of S. Matthew whereby you declare that you beleue none other Euangeliste ne none other word of God beside your owne fansie Likewise you dissemble how diuersly the Fathers haue expounded the fruite of the Vine and vtter many wordes about a most knowen truth The fruit of the vine which no man denieth wherein as you deserue smal praise of learning so you lose amonge the wise the commendation of discretion For answer to al which I saie that it is a certaine case and cleere out of question that there was wine in Christes chalice whereof the Sacramēt should be made and yet forsoothe you would nedes proue it in many Pages together Againe I say that as there was wine in the chalice whereof the Sacrament should be made so after it was made there was no more the substance of wine And that I wil proue so plainely That after cōsecration there vvas no more the substance of vvine in Christes cup. Luc. 22. that you shal neuer be hable to answer to it Christe him selfe said if at the leste you admitte S. Lukes Gospel This Cuppe is the newe Testament in my Bloude whiche cuppe is shedde or shal be shedde for you The Cuppe shal be shedde for vs saith Christe that is to saye the liquour conteined in the Cuppe shal be shedde for vs. But natural or artificial wine was not shed for vs but onely Christes owne Bloude was shed for vs Ergo onely Christes owne Bloude is in that Cuppe and the substance of wine is not there at al. The wordes are plaine that which is in the Cup or chalice shal be shed for vs that was onely Christes Bloude Therefore onely Christes Bloude is in the Cuppe or Chalice But Christes Bloude is no wine excepte wee cal it wine in suche respecte as Christe him selfe is called the Vine and the grape Therefore no material wine of the common grape is in the Cuppe of Christes Supper Chrysost in 1. Cor. 10. With