Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n
Text snippets containing the quad
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A43741
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Fair-play on both sides: or, the surest way to heaven Discovered in a dispute between a Roman-Catholick, and a Protestant.
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Hieron, Samuel, 1576?-1617.
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1666
(1666)
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Wing H1943; ESTC R224206
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36,352
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39
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Fair-Play on both sides OR The surest way to HEAVEN DISCOVERED IN A DISPUTE BETWEEN A Roman-Catholick AND A PROTESTANT LONDON Printed for Richard Head at the Heart and Bible in Little-Brittain 1666. To my much esteemed Friend Mr. J. L. YOU will wonder I am sure considering my profession to see me become a Poet. And indeed I do almost marvel at my self knowing my self to want the two principal furtherances of Poetry the one is Natures instinct (a) They say Poeta noscitur If a man be not as it were a Poet born he shall never prove excellent in that faculty which God in his holy providence hath denyed me the other is A certain retired freedom from all such businesses which may breed destraction (b) Carmina secessum scribentis otia quae unt Ovid. de Trist which my publick calling besides private encomberances will not afford me Yet notwithstanding upon this present occasion I have even forced my self to this straitâ—r course of verse-making though I know that for my own ease having to deal in such a distempered and unruly subject that less limited and freer kind of discourse which Prose alloweth had been more convenient because the Rules of Cadence number to which our English Poetry specially is confined do many times so streighten an unaccustomed Practitioner that he is in hazard either of obscuring the sence which in a matter of this nature were something dangerous or of marring the Verse which to the apprehension of every common conceit were very ridiculous But howsoever I have erred in the carriage of this Verse I hope to you and to others whose favour either because of their judgement or their honesty I desire this shall excuse me that meeting with our common Adversary who appeareth sometime in shape of a Statesman debating of Titles and common-wealth affairs (c) Witness the Quodlibets c. sometime as a Petitioner to the King and Parliament (d) At the Kings first coming and now since the Parliament sometime as a plausible Perswader (e) Bâ—istows Motives and Books of that nature sometime as a restorer of the holy Text to the native purity thereof (f) Rhem. Test Grego Martin sometime as a man of a very tender conscience giving reasons why he cannot come to our Assemblies (g) Howlet sometime as a Raylor at our Government and an approver of our open enemies (h) The ward-word Quo teneam vultus mutantem Proted nodo that I say meeting with this time-serving Proteus in the fashion of a Rimer or Balladins and crept in as the manner of false Brethren 1 is (i) Galat. 2.4 Similes habet labra lactucas into â—oth the haâ—… and 〈…〉 simple seduced I have endeavoured to make 〈…〉 like the Lips as the Proverb is 〈…〉 sing to 〈◊〉 I am sure without wilful forsaking the plain truth of God 〈…〉 I shall 〈…〉 The service it 〈…〉 here 〈…〉 by 〈…〉 (k) He confeseth he 〈…〉 Protestant is 〈…〉 though 〈◊〉 say the truth it 〈…〉 through 〈…〉 yet set forth after any good or 〈…〉 but it is even 〈…〉 of certain 〈…〉 egations as to there the â—avings and scraps of 〈◊〉 other 〈…〉 order or proof 〈…〉 word of 〈…〉 than Orâ— Belike the 〈…〉 rough for those for whom it was provided as 〈◊〉 it is for those which turn their ears from the Truth and are given unto fables (l) 2 Tim. 4.4 and by some upon my knowledge to whom 〈◊〉 me God hath sent strong delusions that they should believe 〈◊〉 (m) â— Theâ— 2.11 it is highly magnified as a special preservative against supposed Heresie and as a well-framed Sconce which none of us all is able to overthrow In regard whereof knowing my self 〈…〉 others to contend earnestly for the maintainance 〈…〉 (n) Iude. 3. â—2 1â— I have undertaken this which you here see For my desire and true intent therein it is best known to him which seeth in 〈◊〉 (o) Maâ— â— and in his due time will make the counsels of all hearts manifest (p) 1 Cor. 4. â— Touching the thing it self how it is and how well it is I submit it to the sensure of the godly-wise praying them that with their favourable if not allowance yet at least connivance it may pass to the use of those to whom it is intended And among others I have directed it especially to you in part of recompence for a great deal of kindness intreating you to entertain 〈◊〉 with the like measure of Love wherein it is offered And so â—…ching God to fill you with the fruits of Righteousness (q) Phil. 1.11 I command you to his grace in Christ Jesus Your loving Friend SAM HIERON Modbury Aug. 20. 1604. FAIR PLAY Or a Dispute between a PROTESTANT and a ROMAN-CATHOLICK Wherein the true Religion is made clear to the meanest capacity Roman Catholick's Preface I Pray thee Protestant bear with me (a) Indeed a man had need to be very patient that meaneth to hear thee To ask thee Questions two or three And if an answer thou canst make More of thy counsel I will take (b) Yet I fear that though thou wert brayed in a Mortar with a Pestel among Wheat thy foolishness will not depart from thee Prov. 27.22 Many sundry Sects appear Now in the world far and near The Calvinist the Protestant The Zwinglian the Puritant The Brownest and the Family of Love And many more which I can prove And the Roman Faith truly Which you call Papistry And every one confess Jesu Saying that their Faith is true But amongst these tell me how The Truth from feigned lies to know All these in very deed Reherse all Articles in the Creed And every one of them saith That theirs is the Catholick Faith But this it is that I do seek (c) I believe thou art one of those which are ever learning and never come to the knowledge of the Truth 2 Tim. 3.7 Take the Lanthorn which David used and thou shalt soon find the true Church Psal 119.105 To know the Church Catholick The Communion or Company Of holy men in Unity Protestants Answer His Preface I May not Papist suffer thee Because thy Questions idle be And if my Counsel thou wilt take Then hear the answer I will make Thou tell'st of Sects that do appear And seem'st the truth glad to inquire But ev'n in this I malice smell And see thy spiteful meaning well When thou these divers Sects dost name Thou wouldst thereby our Church defame (d) I have reason so to think because the multitude of supposed Sects amongst us is a common imputation See Brist Motives pag. 10. And make fools think that we them lov'd When as with us th' are not approv'd We do not hang on Clavins sleeve Nor yet on Zwinglius we believe And Puritans we do desie If right the name you do apply (e) Viz. If either by that name are understood those ancient
stones The golden lights (y) Those seven Churches were represented by seven golden Candlesticks Apoc. 1.20 of Saint Johns age Are now become even Sathans cage Prove thou that Rome hath not declind From th' ancient Church by Pauls resind And then I 'le say thou hast done more Then ever Papist did before But for first turning of our Nation I trow thou nam'st it but for fashion For they that look in History Thereof can find no certainty Simon Zelotes as some say (z) Niceph. lib. 2. cap. 40. Did first Christs Gospel here display Even whilst that Emperour did reign By whom our Saviour Christ was slain (a) Gildas Lib. de victoria Aurelii Ambrosii Some say that he of Arimathy (b) Joseph who buried Christ In the year of grace sixty three From France by Philip (c) Philip the Apostle was sent over To us the faith for to discover (d) So saith Gildas also Hereto agreeth a learned man That ancient Clark Tertullian That by th' Apostles Britany Was turn'd to Christianity (e) Tertul. in his book against the Jewes amongst other places converted by the Apostles reckoneth divers parts of France and Britain So doth Origen Hom. 4. upon Ezechiel Pope Elutherius long agoe (f) About the year of Christ 180. As his Epistle plain did show (g) This Epistle hath been found out of the ancient Records of the Kings of England Unto King Lucius hither sent Ere Ethelbert was king of Kent (h) Which was about 600. years after Christ We hold the faith that then was taught But you the same do set at naught (i) Eleutherius referred King Lucius to the Scriptures clean against the Papists course now and called him Gods Vicar in his kingdom which title the Pope alone doth now challenge When Rome the Truth doth once forsake Then we of Rome our leaves must take If that our Church were Catholick To come to Church thou wouldst not stick If of the word thou knewst the sence Thou soon would'st leave that fond pretence Our Church that truth doth firm embrace Which all those hold in every place Who leaving mens traditions clean Upon the Scriptures onely lean (k) That is truly Catholick which every where alwayes and by all viz. true Christians is believed Vincen. cont Haer. c. 3. Let Papists prove that the word Catholick being taken in that sence ours is not a Catholick Church Popish Rime Prophets SO saith the Prophet Malachy There should be offered far and nigh A clean Oblation or Sacrifice (l) When you read Altar and Sacrifice you think streight that makes for Mass not knowing or not seeming to know the language of the Scripture From place where now the Sun doth rise To the going down of the same And what is that I pray thee name If it be not the holy Mass I will be a Protestant as I was (m) If thou hadst been of us thou wouldst have continued with us 1 John 2.19 In the eighteenth Psalm I found The whole world should hear their sound (n) Namely of the Apostles and their Doctrine prove our Doctrine to disagree with theirs And if this mark you do not want Presently I will recant Protestants Answer Prophets THou cit'st a text of Malachy (o) Mal. 1.11 Hoping to prove thy Mass thereby Alas the reason is but small And helps that Idol not at all In it God threatneth the Jews †The opening of the place of Malachy Who their great priviledge did abuse And thought the Lord was tied to them And unto their Jerusalem The Prophet tells that God elsewhere Will find out those which shall him fear And in an order without blame Shall call upon his holy Name Speaking to their capacity The Legal tearms he doth apply (p) So Joel 2.28 The holy Ghost foretelling the Spiritual enlightning which the people shall have under Christ doth deliver it under the names of Visions and Dreams which notwithstanding were not ordinary in the times of the Gospel And calls our Gospel like Service A pure and spotless (q) Pure in Christ being accepted of God through him 1 Pet. 2.5 Sacrifice What ground is here then for the Mass It still remaineth as it was A gross device defaming Christ Who is our true and onely Priest (r) See more of this hereafter in speaking more directly of the Mass The speech of David of the Skies (Å¿) Psal 19.3 But according to their account Psal 18. Into the Apostles Paul applies (t) Rom. 10.18 And saith their sound went far and near As in the stories doth appear Tell me I pray what good to you This place you have alledg'd can do It maketh nought for Popery Or for your idle trumpery Indeed the infamous Fame is spread Of Antichrist your hideous head And all God's Children him do see The man of sin (r) 2 Thes 2.3 alone to be Th' Apostles Faith was far disperst And here in England was rehearst â—ith then our Doctrine is the same â—o it belongs part of their fame Popish Rime Continuance THis is another mark most sure The Faith of Christ must still endure †Christs Faith must endure therefore Rome is the true Church A hot argument as though the Christian Faith could endure no where but at Rome According as our Saviour said When for Saint Peter he had pray'd Simon thy faith shall never fail The gates of Hell shall not prevail †True the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church of Christ but Christ in despight of the Devil will have a Church upon earth what makes this for Rome The holy Ghost your comforter Shall remain with you for ever And I my self your surest friend Will be with you unto the end Saint Paul hath the like speech There shall be alwayes men to preach Apostles (p) Some say they are Apostles and are not Rev. 2.2 Doctors and the like In the Church Catholick If this be not the Church of Rome (q) Because you say it we are bound to believe it Then will I be converted soon Protestants Answer Continuance YOu say Christs faith must still endure I yield that nothing is more sure And alwayes God a Church will have Though thereat Satan rage and rave (Å¿) Mat. 16.18 And that is the uttermost which can be collected out of that place It glads my heart that Christ hath praid Thereby I know my Faith is staid (t) Luke 22.32 Christs prayer there belongs to all believers as well as to Saint Peter John 17.20 The comfort of Gods holy Sp'rit Is each good Christians sole delight This proves there still a Church shall be And herein thou and I agree To prove the Church tied to one Sea Requireth yet a better Plea The Faith of Christ may still abide Though Rome should into Tibur slide Gods Spirit is free and is not bound (u) John 3.8 Within the lists of Romish ground