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truth_n believe_v church_n infallible_a 2,836 5 9.7883 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A62556 A treatise of the nature of Catholick faith and heresie with reflexion upon the nullitie of the English Protestant church and clergy / by N.N. Talbot, Peter, 1620-1680. 1657 (1657) Wing T119; ESTC R38283 71,413 104

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both_o may_v be_v part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n protestant_n as_o w●_n have_v see_v in_o the_o former_a chapter_n say_v that_o a●●_n christian_n congregation_n be_v part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n as_o well_o as_o we_o roman_a catholic_n thi●_n assertion_n they_o ground_n upon_o the_o signification_n of_o the_o wor●_n catholic_n which_o be_v as_o much_o to_o say_v as_o universal_a in_o the_o sa●_n i_o sense_n they_o explicate_v catholic_n tradition_n to_o be_v onel●_n that_o which_o be_v contradict_v by_o any_o christian_a church_n according_a to_o this_o opinion_n no_o congregation_n of_o christian_a can_v be_v heretic_n because_o heretic_n must_v be_v obstinate_a against_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o universal_a or_o catholic_n church_n but_o no_o christian_n can_v be_v obstinate_a against_o th●_n doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_n or_o universal_a church_n seein●_n themselves_o be_v part_n of_o it_o and_o they_o can_v not_o be_v obstinate_a against_o themselves_o or_o 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well_o verse_v in_o scripture_n have_v so_o much_o honesty_n as_o not_o to_o conceal_v from_o the_o world_n that_o true_a sense_n of_o scripture_n which_o seem_v to_o themselves_o clear_a and_o evident_a after_o the_o combination_n and_o examination_n of_o all_o controvert_v text_n but_o to_o be_v brief_a and_o decline_v all_o comparison_n which_o be_v odious_a let_v we_o suppose_v for_o the_o present_a which_o protestant_n aught_o to_o take_v as_o a_o courtesy_n that_o learned_a protestant_n and_o learned_a catholic_n be_v equal_o honest_a and_o equal_o learn_v both_o honest_a and_o both_o learned_a if_o the_o contrary_a be_v not_o make_v appear_v by_o the_o ensue_a demonstration_n 5_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o man_n equal_o learn_v and_o equal_o honest_a to_o have_v any_o controversy_n about_o the_o sense_n of_o any_o word_n of_o scripture_n if_o the_o sense_n be_v clear_a and_o evident_a but_o protestant_n and_o catholic_n who_o be_v suppose_v to_o be_v equal_o learned_a and_o 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which_o we_o receive_v from_o the_o church_n that_o go_v before_o we_o assure_v it_o be_v reveal_v by_o god_n upon_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o luther_n calvin_n knox_n or_o the_o ●2_n person_n that_o make_v the_o ritual_a and_o pretend_v to_o reform_v in_o edward_n the_o vi_o time_n the_o sacrament_n both_o in_o matter_n form_n and_o number_n what_o sign_n or_o miracle_n do_v they_o show_v for_o their_o extraordinary_a mission_n and_o apostleship_n of_o reform_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n if_o any_o man_n who_o receive_v his_o land_n by_o inheritance_n from_o his_o ancestor_n ought_v not_o to_o part_v with_o it_o if_o not_o force_v by_o better_a evidence_n than_o his_o own_o how_o can_v we_o part_v with_o our_o faith_n and_o sense_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o all_o our_o supernatural_a inheritance_n and_o happiness_n until_o protestant_n show_v a_o better_a title_n than_o the_o inheritance_n or_o continual_a succession_n of_o our_o doctrine_n from_o the_o apostle_n they_o must_v produce_v better_a evidence_n than_o their_o pretend_a clearness_n of_o scripture_n if_o they_o laugh_v at_o quaker_n notwithstanding_o all_o the_o text_n of_o scripture_n which_o they_o have_v at_o their_o finger_n end_n against_o protestant_a doctrine_n how_o do_v they_o imagine_v do_v catholic_n look_v upon_o the_o first_o pretend_v reformer_n one_o advantage_n these_o new_a quaker_n have_v against_o all_o protestant_n which_o protestant_n have_v not_o against_o catholic_n and_o it_o be_v that_o a_o new_a quaker_n may_v say_v with_o truth_n to_o a_o old_a or_o new_a protestant_n he_o have_v as_o prudent_a ground_n and_o as_o good_a evidence_n for_o his_o own_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n and_o religion_n as_o the_o protestant_n have_v for_o he_o their_o fancy_n the_o only_a ground_n of_o both_o their_o faith_n be_v much_o alike_o and_o their_o mission_n be_v not_o warrant_v by_o any_o precedent_a church_n this_o the_o protestant_n can_v not_o object_v against_o catholic_n because_o we_o have_v always_o the_o word_n and_o warrant_v of_o a_o precedent_n visible_a church_n for_o our_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n and_o religion_n chap._n ix_o whether_o any_o puritanical_a congregation_n be_v the_o catholic_n church_n by_o reason_n of_o their_o pretend_a spirit_n 1_o there_o not_o a_o tradesman_n or_o simple_a woman_n among_o the_o pure_a sort_n of_o protestant_n who_o do_v not_o imagine_v themselves_o to_o be_v more_o infallible_a in_o interpret_n scripture_n than_o the_o pope_n and_o all_o the_o general_a counsel_n together_o this_o infallibility_n they_o attribute_v to_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n which_o they_o all_o pretend_v to_o have_v but_o this_o fond_a imagination_n be_v as_o easy_o refute_v as_o the_o clearness_n of_o scripture_n have_v be_v in_o the_o former_a chap._n because_o every_o pure_a protestant_n or_o puritan_n pretend_v to_o have_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n but_o that_o spirit_n contradict_v itself_o according_o the_o diversity_n of_o tenet_n which_o the_o pure_o inspire_a hold_n it_o be_v impossible_a it_o shall_v be_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n who_o can_v not_o inspire_v contradiction_n yet_o they_o be_v so_o obstinate_a that_o its_o impossible_a to_o persuade_v they_o to_o the_o contrary_a though_o you_o may_v clear_o convince_v they_o the_o pope_n must_v be_v antichrist_n catholic_n king_n the_o horn_n of_o the_o beast_n &_o religious_a order_n rag_n of_o rome_n wherewith_o the_o whore_n of_o babylon_n adorn_v herself_o the_o puritan_n must_v only_o be_v the_o elect_n the_o saint_n and_o pure_a zealot_n of_o the_o beauteous_a discipline_n of_o zion_n which_o to_o carry_v on_o though_o whole_a nation_n be_v extirpate_v their_o holy_a spirit_n do_v not_o only_o rid_v they_o from_o any_o remorse_n of_o conscience_n but_o assure_v they_o no_o work_n can_v be_v more_o meritorious_a if_o you_o inquire_v of_o they_o how_o they_o know_v whether_o this_o spirit_n of_o they_o be_v good_a or_o bad_a of_o god_n or_o the_o devil_n calvin_n their_o patriarch_n and_o master_n answer_v that_o they_o do_v discern_v it_o as_o clear_o as_o they_o do_v white_a from_o black_a sweet_a from_o sour_a and_o light_n from_o darkness_n his_o proof_n be_v the_o experience_n and_o testimony_n of_o every_o one_o of_o the_o faithful_a brethren_n concern_v the_o pureness_n of_o his_o own_o spirit_n 2_o this_o calvinisticall_a and_o private_a spirit_n be_v so_o hide_v and_o undiscernible_a can_v not_o be_v a_o sufficient_a and_o prudent_a ground_n at_o least_o for_o any_o man_n that_o have_v it_o not_o to_o believe_v it_o be_v the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n and_o of_o the_o catholic_n church_n man_n who_o be_v not_o in_o the_o true_a church_n must_v be_v lead_v into_o it_o by_o some_o credit_n and_o exterior_a sign_n and_o though_o faith_n be_v a_o gift_n of_o god_n yet_o it_o be_v communicate_v by_o preach_v and_o hear_v rom._n 10._o we_o do_v not_o deny_v that_o god_n must_v help_v all_o catholic_n interiorly_a with_o his_o supernatural_a grace_n and_o spirit_n but_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o puritan_n and_o catholic_n spirit_n be_v that_o the_o puritan_n spirit_n inspire_v a_o belief_n contrary_n to_o reason_n the_o catholic_n spirit_n inspire_v a_o belief_n non_fw-fr contrary_a but_o agreeable_a to_o reason_n though_o christian_a faith_n be_v above_o reason_n it_o be_v not_o unreasonable_a but_o it_o can_v not_o be_v agreeable_a to_o reason_n that_o any_o person_n believe_v a_o puritanical_a spirit_n without_o any_o more_o proof_n of_o the_o goodness_n of_o it_o than_o a_o puritan_n word_n against_o a_o sense_n of_o scripture_n which_o have_v be_v continue_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n since_o the_o primitive_a time_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o tradition_n testimony_n of_o father_n and_o acknowledge_v by_o the_o magdeburg_n century_n and_o other_o protestant_a writer_n therefore_o the_o private_a spirit_n can_v not_o be_v a_o sufficient_a proposal_n of_o the_o true_a faith_n or_o a_o credible_a and_o convince_a sign_n of_o the_o true_a church_n
hear_v the_o exception_n of_o protestant_n against_o each_o of_o these_o mystery_n against_o transubstantiation_n they_o object_v the_o evidence_n of_o our_o sense_n it_o never_o be_v read_v in_o scripture_n say_v they_o that_o god_n by_o a_o miracle_n deceive_v man_n sense_n or_o make_v appear_v to_o they_o one_o thing_n for_o another_o moses_n and_o aaron_n rod_n in_o egypt_n be_v real_o convert_v into_o a_o serpent_n and_o seem_v so_o also_o to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o spectator_n the_o magician_n rod_n seem_v to_o be_v serpent_n to_o the_o sense_n but_o real_o be_v not_o from_o hence_o they_o conclude_v that_o by_o false_a miracle_n and_o illusion_n the_o sense_n may_v be_v deceive_v but_o never_o by_o true_a supernatural_a sign_n or_o miracle_n against_o transubstantiation_n they_o object_v also_o novelty_n of_o the_o word_n and_o of_o the_o thing_n define_v which_o be_v in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n first_o and_o after_o in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n 3_o as_o for_o worship_n of_o image_n they_o look_v upon_o it_o as_o idolatry_n or_o at_o least_o as_o a_o thing_n incline_v the_o common_a people_n to_o it_o and_o therefore_o both_o dangerous_a and_o unlawful_a some_o object_n also_o novelty_n against_o it_o the_o first_o time_n say_v they_o worship_n of_o image_n be_v hear_v of_o be_v some_o 800._o year_n ago_o in_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a 4_o now_o to_o their_o first_o exception_n and_o the_o evidence_n of_o their_o sense_n against_o transubstantiation_n i_o answer_v that_o the_o sense_n be_v not_o deceive_v because_o according_a to_o common_a philosophy_n their_o proper_a object_n which_o be_v the_o accident_n do_v remain_v but_o see_v divers_a both_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n do_v deny_v that_o there_o be_v any_o accident_n separable_a from_o their_o proper_a substance_n my_o second_o answer_n be_v that_o there_o be_v two_o sort_n of_o miracle_n some_o miracle_n be_v wrought_v not_o to_o be_v see_v but_o to_o be_v believe_v because_o they_o be_v not_o only_a miracle_n but_o also_o mystery_n of_o christian_a faith_n the_o incarnation_n or_o union_n of_o god_n and_o man_n in_o one_o person_n be_v one_o of_o the_o great_a miracle_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o do_v to_o be_v see_v or_o manifest_v to_o our_o sense_n in_o this_o life_n but_o be_v conceal_v from_o they_o to_o be_v believe_v the_o miracle_n of_o transubstantiation_n be_v call_v by_o christ_n himself_o mysterium_fw-la fidei_fw-la a_o mystery_n of_o faith_n it_o be_v not_o do_v to_o be_v perceive_v by_o our_o sense_n but_o to_o be_v believe_v by_o our_o understanding_n 5_o other_o miracle_n there_o be_v which_o have_v be_v wrought_v by_o god_n to_o the_o end_n they_o may_v move_v we_o to_o believe_v not_o themselves_o for_o they_o be_v see_v and_o manifest_a but_o some_o other_o reveal_v truth_n these_o miracle_n be_v patent_n to_o our_o sense_n because_o they_o give_v we_o sufficient_a evidence_n that_o the_o mystery_n of_o faith_n may_v prudent_o be_v credit_v as_o divine_a revelation_n such_o be_v moses_n his_o miracle_n in_o egypt_n the_o rod_n be_v not_o turn_v into_o a_o serpent_n that_o pharaoh_n and_o the_o egyptian_n shall_v believe_v what_o they_o do_v see_v with_o their_o eye_n but_o that_o they_o shall_v believe_v somewhat_o else_o to_o wit_n that_o moses_n be_v send_v by_o god_n 6_o suppose_v this_o difference_n between_o miracle_n there_o can_v be_v no_o difficulty_n in_o answer_v the_o objection_n make_v by_o protestant_n against_o transubstantiation_n miracle_n which_o be_v not_o wrought_v principal_o to_o the_o end_n that_o they_o may_v be_v believe_v by_o faith_n but_o rather_o to_o the_o end_n they_o may_v be_v evident_o see_v and_o by_o their_o mean_n other_o mystery_n believe_v can_v not_o deceive_v the_o sense_n because_o than_o they_o will_v be_v of_o no_o use_n god_n providence_n and_o end_n in_o work_v they_o will_v be_v frustrate_v miracle_n which_o be_v together_o mystery_n of_o faith_n and_o be_v do_v that_o they_o may_v be_v believe_v and_o not_o see_v must_v not_o appear_v evident_o to_o our_o sense_n but_o rather_o be_v conceal_v from_o they_o otherwise_o we_o shall_v have_v evidence_n and_o belief_n of_o one_o thing_n in_o the_o same_o time_n the_o mystery_n of_o transubstantiation_n be_v a_o miracle_n not_o to_o be_v evident_o see_v but_o to_o be_v believe_v therefore_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n that_o it_o be_v not_o patent_n to_o our_o sense_n when_o christ_n turn_v water_n into_o wine_n he_o do_v it_o in_o such_o a_o manner_n that_o the_o sense_n perceive_v it_o to_o be_v wine_n because_o from_o that_o evident_a and_o sensible_a miracle_n they_o may_v infer_v and_o believe_v that_o he_o be_v the_o true_a messiah_n but_o when_o he_o change_v bread_n and_o wine_n into_o his_o own_o body_n and_o blood_n there_o be_v no_o appearance_n of_o change_n it_o seem_v to_o remain_v still_o bread_n because_o the_o insensible_a change_n of_o one_o substance_n to_o another_o be_v a_o mystery_n to_o be_v credit_v and_o not_o to_o be_v see_v the_o manna_n which_o be_v a_o figure_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n of_o the_o altar_n do_v savour_n to_o the_o jew_n whatsoever_o they_o fancy_v though_o it_o remain_v the_o same_o substance_n it_o be_v before_o i_o see_v therefore_o no_o reason_n why_o we_o christian_n shall_v give_v more_o credit_n to_o our_o palate_n than_o the_o jew_n who_o have_v as_o much_o reason_n to_o doubt_v of_o the_o manna_n as_o we_o of_o the_o sacrament_n nay_o we_o have_v less_o because_o christ_n word_n be_v so_o absolute_o and_o clear_a this_o be_v my_o body_n if_o it_o be_v his_o body_n it_o be_v not_o bread_n be_v impossible_a that_o christ_n body_n shall_v be_v bread_n 7_o see_v god_n will_v not_o have_v the_o mystery_n of_o transubstantiation_n be_v evident_a to_o our_o sense_n it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v think_v either_o superfluous_a or_o incredible_a that_o the_o species_n or_o appearance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n work_v the_o same_o effect_n which_o their_o substance_n will_v have_v do_v if_o it_o be_v present_a for_o god_n be_v as_o coherent_a in_o supernatural_a thing_n as_o in_o natural_a its_o necessary_a therefore_o for_o the_o concealment_n of_o this_o mystery_n and_o for_o the_o merit_n of_o christian_a faith_n that_o no_o want_n of_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n may_v be_v perceive_v in_o the_o sacrament_n by_o any_o curious_a experience_n of_o man_n who_o will_v eat_v and_o drink_v only_o conscerate_v species_n the_o not_o manifest_v this_o great_a mystery_n to_o our_o sense_n require_v that_o the_o same_o effect_n be_v work_v by_o the_o species_n as_o by_o bread_n and_o wine_n 8_o some_o protestant_n think_v it_o a_o contradiction_n that_o one_o body_n be_v present_a in_o many_o place_n together_o but_o all_o catholic_n hold_v that_o christ_n body_n and_o blood_n have_v a_o spiritual_a presence_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o once_o grant_v there_o can_v be_v no_o difficulty_n in_o believe_v that_o our_o saviour_n body_n and_o blood_n may_v be_v in_o many_o place_n at_o the_o same_o time_n because_o it_o be_v grant_v to_o all_o thing_n which_o have_v a_o spiritual_a presence_n 9_o if_o any_o inquire_v how_o can_v a_o body_n have_v a_o spiritual_a presence_n i_o answer_v he_o with_o demand_v how_o can_v a_o spirit_n have_v a_o corporal_a presence_n how_o can_v a_o angel_n have_v the_o appearance_n and_o presence_n of_o a_o young_a man_n whereof_o there_o be_v many_o example_n in_o scripture_n whence_o it_o follow_v that_o our_o sense_n may_v be_v deceive_v or_o to_o speak_v more_o proper_o may_v give_v occasion_n to_o the_o understanding_n to_o be_v deceive_v not_o only_o in_o the_o mystery_n of_o transubstantiation_n but_o also_o in_o other_o express_v in_o scripture_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o what_o our_o adversary_n object_n angel_n seem_v to_o the_o eye_n of_o abraham_n josue_n tobias_n and_o other_o to_o be_v young_a man_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v not_o man_n but_o spirit_n 10_o as_o for_o their_o say_n that_o transubstantiation_n be_v a_o novelty_n bring_v into_o the_o church_n by_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n a_o 1215._o it_o be_v a_o mistake_n because_o the_o very_a condemn_v of_o of_o berengarius_fw-la as_o a_o heretic_n for_o impugn_v this_o mystery_n do_v demonstrate_v it_o be_v no_o novelty_n but_o believe_v as_o a_o atticle_n of_o faith_n not_o only_o before_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n but_o since_o the_o apostle_n for_o otherwise_o how_o be_v it_o possible_a that_o the_o patriarch_n of_o jerusalem_n and_o constantinople_n 70._o metropolitanes_n 400._o bishop_n and_o 800._o conventuall_a prior_n who_o be_v present_a at_o that_o council_n shall_v all_o agree_v to_o declare_v transubstantiation_n to_o have_v be_v reveal_v by_o god_n to_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o yet_o the_o same_o to_o be_v at_o the_o same_o