as well as they Therefore we Catholicks have the life and substance of Religion pag. 60. In the prime grounds or Principles of Christian Religion we have not forsaken the Church of Rome Therefore he grants that we have the prime grounds or Fundamentall Articles of Religion pag. 11. For those Catholick verities which she the Roman Church retains we yield her a member of the Catholick though one of the most unsound and corrupt members In this sense the Romanists may be called Catholicks Behold we are members of the Catholick Church which could not be if we erred in any one Fundamentall Point By the way If the Romanists may be called Catholicks why may not the Roman Church be termed Catholick And yet this is that Argument which Protestants are wont to urge against us and Potter in particular in this very place not considering that he impugns himself whiles he speaks against us not distinguishing between universall as Logicians speak of it which signifies one common thing abstracting or abstracted from all particulars and Catholick as it is taken in true Divinity for the Church spread over the whole world that is all Churches which agree with the Roman and upon that vain conceit telling his unlearned Reader that universall and particular are tearms repugnant and consequently one cannot be affirmed of the other that is say I Catholick cannot be affirmed of D. Potter nor D. Potter said to be a Catholick because a particular cannot be said to be universall or an universall pag. 75. To depart from the Church of Rome in some doctrines and Practises there might be just and necessary cause though the Church of Rome wanted nothing necessary to salvation pag. 70. They the Roman Doctors confesse that setting aside all matters controverted the main positive truths wherein all agree are abundantly sufficient to every good Christian both for his knowledge and for his practise teaching him what to believe and how to live so as he may be saved His saying that the Roman Doctors confess that setting aside all matters controverted c. is very untrue it being manifest that Catholicks believe Protestants to erre damnably both in matters of faith and practise yet his words convince ad hominem that we have all that is necessary yea and abundantly sufficient both for knowledge and practise for us to be saved And then he discoursing of the Doctrines wherein we differ from Protestants saith pag. 74. If the Mistaker will suppose his Roman Church and Religion purged from these and the like confessed excesses and novelties he shall find in that which remains little difference of importance between us Therefore de facto we believe all things of importance which Protestants believe After these words without any interruption he goes forward and sayes pag. 75. But by this discourse the Mistaker happily may believe his cause to be advantaged and may reply If Rome want nothing essentiall to Religion or to a Church how then can the Reformers justify their separation from that Church or free themselves from damnable Schisme Doth not this discourse prove and the Objection which he raises from it suppose that we want nothing essentiall to Religion Otherwise this Objection which he makes to himself were clearly impertinent and foolish if he could have dispatched all by saying we erre in essentiall points which had been an evident and more then a just cause to justify their separation which yet appears further by his Answer to the said Objection That to depart from a particular Church and namely from the Church of Rome in some Doctrines and practises there might be just and necessary cause though the Church of Rome wanted nothing necessary to salvation And afterward in the next pag. 76. speaking of the Church of Rome he saith expresly Her Communion we forsake not no more than the Body of Christ whereof we acknowledge the Church of Rome to be a member though corrupted And this clears us from the imputation of Schism whose propertie it is to cut off from the Body of Christ the hope of salvation the Church from which it separates But if she did erre in any one Fundamentall point by that very errour she would cease to be a member of the Body of Christ and should be cut off from the hope of salvation therefore she doth not erre in any Fundamental point p. 83. We were never disjoyned from her the Church of Rome in those main essentiall truths which give her the name and essence of a Church You must then say that she errs not in any Fundamental Point For the essence of a Church cannot subsist with any such error And that it may appear how desirous he is that it should be believed Catholicks Protestants not to differ in the essence of Religion he adds these words immediately after those which we have last cited Whereof if the mistaker doubt he may be better informed by some late Roman Catholick writers One of France who hath purposely in a large Treatise proved as he believes the Hugonots and Catholicks of that Kingdom to be all of the same Church and Religion because of truths agreed upon by both And another of our Country as it is said who hath lately published a large Catalogue of learned Authors both Papists and Protestants who are all of the same mind Thus you see he ransacks all kind of proofs to shew that Catholicks and Protestants differ not in the substance and essence of Faith and to that end cites for Catholick writers those two who can be no Catholicks as Charity Maintained part 1. chap. 3. pag. 104. Shews the former in particular to be a plain Heretick or rather Atheist Lucian-like jesting at all Religion Pag. 78. he saith We hope and think very well of all those holy and devout souls which in former Ages lived and dyed in the Church of Rome Nay our Charity reaches further to all those at this day who in simplicity of heart believe the Roman Religion and professe it To these words of the Doctor if we subsume But it were impossible that any can be saved even by Ignorance or any simplicitie of heart if he erre in a Fundamentall point because as by every such error a Church ceases to be a Church so every particular person ceases to be a member of the true Church the Conclusion will be that we doe not erre in any Fundamentall point Nay pag. 79. he saith further We believe it the Roman Religion safe that is by Gods great Mercy not damnable to some such as believe what they professe But we believe it not safe but very dangerous if not certainly damnable to such as professe it when they believe or if their hearts were upright and not perversly obstinate might believe the contrary Behold we are not only in a possibility to be saved we are even safe upon condition we believe that Faith to be true which we professe and for which we have suffered so long so great and so many
losses in all kinds which if we did undergoe for externall profession of that Faith which we doe not inwardly believe to be true we should deserve rather to be begged for fools then persecuted for our Religion In the mean time every Catholick hath this comfort that he is safe even by the confession of an Adversary if he be not a foolish dissembler which would be cause of damnation in a Protestant or any other Even the profession of a truth believed to be false is a sin But I return to say it were impossible for any Roman Catholick to be safe upon what condition soever if we erre in any one Fundamentall Article of Faith 7. With D. Potter agreeth M. William Chillingworth in his book intituled The Religion of Protestants a safe way to salvation For whereas Charity Mantained part 1. pag. 15. n. 13. saith Since D. Potter will be forced to grant that there can be assigned no visible true Church of Christ distinct from the Church of Rome and such Churches as agreed with her when Luther first appeared I desire him to declare whether it doth not follow that she hath not erred Fundamentally because every such errour destroyes the nature and being of a Church and so our Saviour Christ should have had no visibly Church on earth To these words which he thought fit to set down very imperfectly he answers pag. 16. n. 20. in this manner I say in our sense of the word Fundamentall it does follow For if it be true that there was then no Church distinct from the Roman then it must be either because there was no Church at all which we deny or because the Roman Church was the whole Church which we also deny Or because she was part of the whole which we grant And if she were a true part of the Church then she retained those truths which were simply necessary to salvation and held no errours which were inevitably and unpardonably destructive of it For this is precisely necessary to constitute any man or any Church a member of the Church Catholick In our sense therefore of the word Fundamentall I hope she erred not Fundamentally But in your sense of the word I fear she did That is she held some thing to be Divine Revelation which was not something not to be which was He hath spoken so clearly and fully in favour of the Roman Church and not only affirmed but proved that she did not erre in any Fundamentall Point that I need not say one word to ponder his words or declare the force of them Pag. 7. n. 3. He expresly approves the saying of D. Potter That both sides by the confession of both sides agree in more Points than are simply and indispensably necessary to salvation and differ only in such as are not precisely necessary Therefore doe we inferr Catholicks believe all that is precisely necessary to salvation and more But we never yield so much to you Protestants Pag. 85. n. 89. He confesseth the Roman Church to be a part of the Catholick Church and pag. 16. n. 20. he saith If she were a true part of the Church then she retained those truths which were simply necessary to salvation and held no errours which were unevitably and unpardonably destructive of it For this is precisely necessary to constitute any man or any Church a member of the Church Catholick Pag. 163. n. 56. He saith From Scripture we collect our hope that the Truths she The Roman Church retains and the practise of them may prove an Antidote to her against the errours which she maintaines in such persons as in simplicity of heart follow this Absalon These points of Christianity which have in them the nature of Antidotes against the poyson of all sins and errours the Church of Rome though otherwise much corrupted still retains therefore we hope she erreth not Fundamentally but still remaines a part of the Church But this can be no warrant to us to think with her in all things Seeing the very same Scripture which puts us in hope she erres not Fundamentally mark how he professeth to learn out of Scripture that we erre not Fundamentally assures us that in many things and those of great moment she errs very grievously And these errors though to them that believe them we hope they will not be pernicious yet the professing of them against Conscience could not but bring us certain damnation Therefore the Points in which we differ from Protestants being acknowledged not to be Fundamental and in other Points professing nothing against our conscience we are safe by his own confession If we did not believe as we professe we were no Roman Catholicks In the same place he saith expresly De facto we hope the Roman Church does not erre in Fundamentalls Yea he saith line 33. Perhaps she does not erre damnably the contrary whereof he affirmes so often His example of Absalon was very ill applied to the Roman Church which did not rebell from Protestants but they against the whole Church the Mother of all Christians more sacrilegiously than Absalon behaved himself wickedly toward his Father Pag. 404. n. 29. He approves Dr. Potters saying pag. 79 which I cited above that the Roman Religion is safe that is not damnable to some such as believe what they profess And in the same place he saith Wee may hope that she retains those Truths which are simply absolutely and indispensably necessary to Salvation Pag. 401. n. 7. VVe approve those fundamental and simply necessary Truths which you retain by which some good souls among you may be saved but abhor your many superstitions and Heresies The Truths you retain are good and as we hope sufficient to bring good ignorant souls among you to salvation yet are not to be sought for in the Conventicle of Papists If any Soul may be saved in our Religion It is clear we hold not any fundamental Error with which no soul can be saved Pag. 277. n. 61. he saith The simple defect of some Truths profitable only and not simply necessary may consist with salvation Seeing therefore he hath so often confessed that we erre not in fundamental points our Errors in some Truths profitable only and not fundamental may consist with salvation How then doth he say to Catholicks pag. 401. n. 27. As for our freeing you from damnable Heresie and yielding you salvation neither he Dr. Potter nor any other Protestant is guilty of it Pag. 219. n. 50. Speaking of Protestants he saith They do not differ at all in matters of Faith if you take the word in the highest sense and meanby matters of Faith such Doctrines as are necessary to salvation to be believed or not to be believed Now you know well that in points of greatest moment which Catholicks believe against some Protestants other Protestants stand for us against their pretended Brethren And therefore he must either say that we believe all such Doctrines as are absolutely necessary to salvation or
PROTESTANCY CONDEMNED BY THE EXPRESSE VERDICT AND SENTENCE OF PROTESTANTS LUKE 19.22 By thine own mouth I judge thee DOWAY Printed in the Year 1654. THE PREFACE TO THE READER I Cannot doubt but that every Protestant if he have not a mind to divest himself of common reason and proclame himself to be inexcusable will confess Protestancy to be cast and condemned by Protestants if by their own free and open Confession these ensuing points be acknowledged for true First That the first Protestants who forsooth undertook a Reformation of the Universal Catholick Church existent before Luther after their pretended Reformation led so lewd lives and held doctrines confessedly so absurd that no man of sense or wisdom can judge them fit instruments for that supposed strange sublime supernatural and divine work Secondly That in opposition of the late and vitious Fathers of Protestants those men who even by Protestants are stiled Antient and Holy Fathers believed taught and practised the very same things which we now believe teach and practise against Protestants Thirdly That not only the Antient Fathers but even the chiefest and most learned Protestants convinced by evidence of truth stand with us against their Protestant Brethren in most of the chiefest points of Religion controverted between us Fourthly That our doctrine hath been approved by the Omnipotent hand of God using for Instruments of working Miracles those who were confessedly of our Religon yea and in express confirmation of points believed by us and rejected by Protestants Fifthly That by the confession of Protestants we Catholicks may be saved though we live and dye in the belief of all those Articles wherein Protestants disagree from us Which last consideration though it were alone ought effectually to move every one who believes an Eternity of Joy or Torment speedily to joyn himself with that Church wherein by the confession of all both friends and foes Catholicks and Protestants salvation may certainly be attained if our life agree with our belief Now for proof these Truths most important to be known I present not to the Reader any new VVork or Invention of mine own but in effect only transcribe and publish what I find in that excellent Book intituled The Protestants Apology for the Roman Church the true Author whereof thought fit to conceale himself under the name of John Brereley Priest though indeed he was neither Brereley nor Priest nor Clergy-man not John but rather James He dedicated his Book to King James and writes with so great exactness fidelity temper and moderation that Protestants though they must needs feel themselves deeply wounded by the substance of his discourse yet cannot with any shadow of reason pretend to be justly offended with his manner of discoursing In so much as Thomas Morton confesseth that whatsoever strong argument in any place in Roman Authors is to be found in favour of that Religion whatsoever hath by chance fallen from the pen of any learned Protestant but in outward appearance consonant to their doctrines which may seem any way to promote the Roman cause all that we see in this volume collected to be brought and presly urged against us with so singular a choice of the things themselves with such force of arguments with such an elegant and exquisite stile Lastly with so moderate a kind of expression as their subtilty judgement wit art and moderation could do I wish the Book were in the hands of many but it being of some bulk and not easy to be had and the points which here I offer being but few and comprised in no very great compass and of themselves very intelligible and clear to every mans understanding they will come to the knowledge of more by being published thus apart than if they were to be sought in the Book it self mixed with many other matters by the Author handled in different and distant places and upon several occasions and in a method not obvious to men who have no great mind to take much pains If upon occasion I put in a word of mine own the Reader will understand it to be mine by the word Publisher abbreviated by Pu. I make use of the Edition of An. 1608. It is clear that he is most exact in his Citations citing not only the Book but the year Edition place of Print and sometimes even the page and line as appears by the Table set down in the beginning of his Book with this title A Table of certain Protestant writers and their particular writings whose folio or page for more ready and certain direction are specially alleged in the subsequent Discourse and of their several Editions or year of Print according to which they be so alleged unless it be otherwise noted in the margent But yet notwithstanding all the care exactness used by the Author it was not in his power to exempt the Print from many Errors and Omissions as also I cannot doubt but he who Prints this publication of mine will have his errors The five Heads or Truths mentioned above I will call so many Considerations Neither have I any more to say in this place than with my whole heart to beg of the Protestant Reader even for the love he ows to the Redeemer of Mankind and for the care he should have to save his own soul that he will peruse these Considerations with a hearty desire to find and an absolute resolution to embrace the truth laying aside prejudice passion sloath and all humane and wordly respects seriously meditating the words of our Blessed Saviour Matth. 16. v. 26 27. What doth it profit a man if he gain the whole world and sustain the damage of his own Soul Or what exchange shall a man give for his Soul For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his Angels and then will he render to every man according to his works If the Reader come not with such a disposition and resolution every word he reads will rise against him in that dreadful day of Judgement upon which all Eternity must depend O ETERNITIE ETERNITIE THE FIRST CONSIDERATION Concerning the lives of the first Protestant pretended Reformers OUR Saviour forewarning us saith Brereley tract 2. cap. 3. sect 9. subdivis 1 That a good Tree yieldeth good fruit Math. 7.17 and beware of false Prophets which come to you in sheeps clothing but inwardly are ravening Woolvs by their fruits you shall know them Math. 7.15 16. omitting petty examples saith Brereley tract 2. chap. 3. sect 9. subdivis 2. we will intreat of Principals namely of Luther of Jacobus Andreas the greatest enlarger of his Doctrine and of Zuinglius Calvin and Beza and of these also for other respects but with a gentle sparing and forbearing touch as not undertaking to allege any thing of them but that which is in it self evident and for such confessed Of Luther 1 COncerning Luther's Life and Manners saith Brereley tract 2. cap. 2. sect 10. subdivis 11. for so much as he
composuâ—t c. denique inspectae haereses omnes in multis cum authoribus suâ—s dissentientes deprehenduntur And see cap. 37. Tertullian [q] Chrysost opur imperfect in Matth. hom 20. saith Omnes infideles qui sub Diabolo sunt non sunt uniti nâ—câ—unum sapiunt sed sunt per diversas opiniones dispersi alius quidem sic dicit alius sic c. comodo perfidia haereticorum qui nunquam sapiunt unum sed quot sunt tot sententias habent Chrysostom [r] Hâ—lar l. 7. de Trinitate saith Haeretici igitur omnes contra Ecclesiam veniunt sâ—â—d dum haeretici omnes se invicem vincut nihil tamem sibi vincunt victoria enim eorum Ecclesiae triumphus ex omnibus est dum in eo haeresis contra alteram pugnat c. Hilarie and [Å¿] Athanasius orat 1. contra Arianos saith Illud qâ—oque prorâ—us admirabile omnes quot sunt hae reses in fingendo diversa pugnantiaque inter se adferre nee alib nisi in falsitate sibi invicem consentire c. And see in Decret's synod Nâ—caenae contra haeresim Arianam See surther a notable example hereof in Socrates hist l. 5. cap. 10. c. 22. And see the sayings of Ambrose l. deâ—fi de ad Gratianum c. 4. Hicrom in Matth. 24. Austine contra Epist Parmen l. 3. c. 4. de Baptismo contra Don. l. 11. c. 6. others discover the Hereticks of their times By the same mark also doth Luther himself make his like discovery saying [t] Luther tom 3. Wittemberg in Psalm 5. fol. 166. b. fine A Kingdome divided in it self shall not stand neither have any Hereticks at any time been overcome by Force or subtilty but by mutual dissention neither doth Christ fight with them otherwise than with a spirit of giddiness and disagreement And again [u] Luther tom 5. Wittemb in Galat. cap. 5. fol. 416. a post medium The Authors of Schisms are disagreeing among themselves c. they bite and devour one another c. till at last they perish This to omit Scriptures the examples of all times do testifie After that Africk was overthrown by the Manichees presently followed them the Donatists who disagreeing among themselves were divided into three Sects c. In our time the Sacramentaries first and then after the Anabaptists divided themselves from us neither of them are in Unity among themselves so alwaies Sects bring forth Sects and one condemneth another And the very same argument is yet further afforded against the Anabaptists by [x] Sebast Francus Chronicorum part 111. fol. 263. b. seq numbreth up Seaventy of the Anabaptists different opinions and concludeth their further differences to be so great as no mâ—n can either know or number them affirming further that scarce two of them are found to agree in all things Sebastianus Francus and the Divines of [y] Theologi Heidelbergenses in protocoll Frankentalensi in praefat ad Anabaptistas say Si vobis Ecclesiae titulum concedere vellemus quaenam inter vos Secta pro Ecclesia Dei habenda offet cum tam in multas sectas divisi sitis Heidelberge and also against the Sacramentaries by the Divines of [z] Theologi Mansfeldenses in confessione Mansfeldica latina fol. 120. say Suspectam meritó habemus Sacramentariorum doctrinam c. quod non definitè in eadem sententia concordes sed inter seipsos divisi sunt ut alii sunt Caralostadiani alii Zuingliani Oecolampadiam Calvinistae c. Mansfield 113. But now although the Testimonie of our Adversaries against themselves be great and convincing whether they confesse that the Fathers stand for us and whether Protestants joyn with us and thereby witness our Doctrines to be true yet there remains a greater testimonie that is true Miracles of which our Blessed Saviour saith Joan. 5.36 I have a greater testimonie than John the very works which I doe give testimonie of me that the Father hath sent me And that our Doctrines have been confirmed by Miracles shall be demonstrated out of the very confession of Protestants in the next fourth Consideration THE FOURTH CONSIDERATION That the Doctrine of us Catholickes hath been approved by the omnipotent hand of God using for Instruments of working Miracles those who were confessedly of our Relgion yea and in express confirmation of points believed by us and rejected by Protestants 1 LIKE as in those [a] Brereley tract 1. sect 5. firster times of the Churches infancy our Saviour did make manifest the truth of his Apostles doctrine with undoubted miracles to serve as [b] 2 Cor. 11.12 signs of their Apostleship to that end [c] Marc. 16.20 confirming the word with signs following so likewise this vertue or power of Miracles not ceasing but as our Adversaries confess [d] Whereas our Saviour loan 14.12 saith He that believeth in me the works that I do he shall do and greater In the marginal Notes of the English Bâ—ble printed 1576. it is thereupon said This is referred to the whole Body of the Church in whom this Vertue doth shine for ever shining in the Church for ever the necessity thereof being one and the same in all succeeding Ages to the [e] In Euseb Hist l. 5 c. 7. Irenaeus is alleged saying Quidam Daemones pro certò verè ejiciunt c. alii co qui gravibus morbis afflictantur per manuum impositionem curant c. lam verò ut diximus mortui suscitati sunt multos annos post apud nos commorati quid plura dona fanè ne dicendo quidem numerari poterunt quae Deus Ecclesiae per universum mundum diffusae donaverit quibusque illa in nomine Jesu Christi sub Pontio Pilato Crucifixi in dies singulos multa miracula ad Gentium utilitatem efficâ—t c. And see Irenaeus l. 2. c. 58. versus finem And S. Austine de civit Dei l. 22. c. 8. initio saith Cur inquiunt nunc illa miracula quae praedicatis facta esse non fiunt Possem quidem dicere necessaria quidem fuâ—sse priusquam crederet mundus ad hoc ut crederet mundus And a little afterwards Nam etiam nunc fiunt in ejus nomine c. And Luther tom 7. Wittemberg l. de Judaeis fol. 209. b. saith Nunc autem per hos 1500. annos audierunt Judaei esse verbum Deâ— viderunt maxâ—â—a signa mitabilia contra fremuerunt And ibid. fol. 210. b. ante med he further saith A Deo did câ—mus accepimus ut aeternum verbum veritatem Dei hactenus mille quingentis annâ—s miraculis signis confessam ac confirmatam Conversion of the heathens who contemn the Scriptures are nothing moved with the Miracles therein mentioned our Saviour did in like manner confirm our now faith so then taught by Austine with like manifestation of Miracles not such only as Antichrist or the Devill can by the power of nature or secondarie
6. fine in his Treatise tending to Pacification sect 14. circa med pag. 89. acknowledgeth a particular blessing of God in the Church of Rome and an evident work of the Holy Ghost saying That the Church of Rome hath ever continued after a sort in profession of the faith since the time that by the Apostles it was delivered to them c. and hath also in some manner preserved and hitherto maintained both the Word and Sacraments that Christ himself did leave unto us which surely saith he is a very special blessing of God and an evident work of the Holy Ghost c. To make good saith Brereley ibidem in the margent at †M. Bunny's words of the evident work of the Holy Ghost in preservation of the Roman Sea the same hath appeared many waies extraordinary and admirable As first in that the other four Patriarchal Seas are noted and known to have been pestered every one of them with confessed Arch-hereticks or Inventers of new doctrines against some principal Article of our Christian faith As at Antioch Paulus Samosetanus at Hierusalem Joannes and Arsenius at Alexandria Dioscorus at Constantinople Macedonius and Nestorius onely the Sea of Rome hath been preserved free from all such known note or touch For howsoever our Adversaries do pretend some one or other Pope to have had his private errour yet to charge any Pope with being an Arch heretick as before-said they have not any colour Secondly in that the Cities of all the other Patriarchal Seas and the Bishops belonging to them now are and of long have been oppressed with Infidels and their succession is either none or but inglorious whereas God hath yet hitherto disposed otherwise of the City and Sea of Rome Thirdly in the example of so many great Christian Kingdomes and Countryes in Asia Africk and Europe which forsaking the Communion of this Sea became not long afterwards barbarous and subject to Infidels accordingly as it is foretold of the true Churches prerogative The Nation and Kingdome that will not serve thee shall perish and those Nations shall be utterly destroyed Esay 60.12 Fourthly in that this is the onely Sea or Church which is confessed by our Adversaries to have continued known and visible for these last thousand or 1300 years whereof see Brereley tract 1. sect 2. at k. l. sect 8. in the margent at c. tract 2. c. 2. sect 7. fine at 3 4 5 6 c. converting also to the Christian faith during all that time by its Legats and Preachers so many confessed Nations and Kingdomes of the Gentiles agreeable to the predictions of the Prophets in that behalf whereof see Brereley tract 2. c. 1. sect 4. initio in the margent at* Fifthly in that this Sea hath been persecuted by the contrary factions of so many Christian Princes by the very Citizens and Cardinals of Rome by the Schisms Factions and wicked lives of the Popes themselves by the implacable hatred and contradiction of so many confessed heresies and hereticks of every age conspiring all of them howsoever divided otherwise among themselves to malign and impugn this Sea as the principal object of their daily continued malice So Hell gates may be said to have assaulted her and yet not prevailed Matth. 16.18 Upon which consideration but duely had of all Hereticks though divided among themselves yet joyning so together in malice against the Roman Sea how can that out-faced opinion of our Adversaries be possibly true which M. D. Downham in his treatise concerning Antichrist l. 2. pag. 22. ante med delivereth saying We hold Antichrist to be the whole body of Hereticks in the last age of the world c. The head of which body is the Papacie The Pope to be their Head and yet he ever against them all and they all ever against him is it possible 6. Pu. Besides what hath been said out of Brereley of this point that Protestants confess that the Roman Church wants nothing necessary to salvation I will shew the same yet more at large D. Potter in his Answer to Charity mistaken pag. 63. saith The most necessary and fundamentall Truths which constitute a Church are on both sides unquestioned And for that reason learned Protestants yield them Romanists as he calls us the name and substance of a Christian Church Where we see that he saith in generall learned Protestants yield them c. In proof whereof he cites in his margent Iunius D. Reinolds and sayes See the judgement of many other writers in the advertisement annexed to the old Religion by the Reverend Bishop of Exeter and adds The very Anabaptists grant it Fr. Johnson in his Christian Plea pag. 123. So that with this one Testimonie of Potter we have many other even of our greatest Adversaries And pag. 62. he saith To those twelve Articles which the Apostles in their Creed esteemed a sufficient Summary of wholsome Doctrine they Catholicks have added many more Such are for instance their Apocryphall Scriptures and unwritten dogmaticall Traditions their Transubstantiation and dry Communion their Purgatory Invocation of Saints Worship of the Images Latine service trafficke of Indulgences and shortly the other new doctrines and decrees canonized in their late Synod of Trent Upon these and the like new Articles is all the contestation between the Romanists and Protestants And then he adds the words which we have cited The most necessary and Fundamentall truths which constitute a Church are on both sides unquestioned and for that c. Where we see he grants we believe the twelve Articles of the Apostles Creed which he teaches at large to contain all Fundamentall Points of Faith and that we hold all the most necessary and Fundamentall truths which constitute a Church Therefore those Points of our Doctrine which he gives for instance are no Fundamentall errors nor the contrary Articles necessary and Fundamentall truths and yet he names all the chiefest Points controverted between us and Protestants even Transubstantiation Communion in one kind and Latine Service which are the things they are wont most to oppose Yea he comprises all the Doctrines and Decrees of the Councill of Trent Therefore we are free from Fundamentall errors by the confession of our Adversaries pag. 59. he further saith The Protestants never intended to erect a new Church but to purge the old The reformation did not change the substance of Religion but only cleansed it from corrupt and impure qualities If the Protestants erected not a new Church then ours is still the old Church and if it were only cleansed from corrupt qualities without change of the substance the substance must be still the same it was and that which was must be still the same with that which is pag. 61. The things which the Protestants believe on their part and wherein they judge the life and substance of Religion to be comprized are most if not all of them so evidently and indisputably true that their Adversaries themselves do avow and receive them
other beginning or beginners of Protestancy than those whom hitherto they have taken for their glorious Fathers and persons qualified with such gifts and endowments as make them fit to reform the whole Christian world and these being once removed from the rank of their Forefathers how will they answer this question Who in particular were the first beginners of their Protestant Church at what time and in what place did they live To which demand I am sure they cannot answer with satisfaction but perforce they must be content to be like the Donatists of whom St. Optatus sayd that they were Filii sine Patre Sonns without Father and every one must be to himself a begining of his Faith and Religion A dreadfull point in the business of an Eternity and necessary subject to that weighty saying of St. Bernard Qui se sibi magistrum constituit stulto se discipulum subdit He who will be his own Master shall be Scholler to a Fool. Secondly For Manners who can imagin that God being Truth Purity and Peace it self would choose for Reformation of the World such men as confessedly have shamefully erred against Truth for Doctrin and against not only Purity but common honesty and morality and against Peace by being both for their Doctrines and Practises Authors of Tumults Seditions and Rebellions Thirdly it ought to be considered with deepest grief and Tears what a lamentable thing it was that people should have been seduced from that antient Religion which the World professed with the specious names of Dr. Luther c. and with a fair but false and lying title of Reformation by men who indeed were such as hath been declared and proved from their own Writings and the expresse and direct Assertions of their own brethren Fourthly since we have found them to be most inconstant in their Doctrine in matters of highest concernment expresly professing to have temporized accommodated themselves to the times and not to that which even themselves judged true who can rely on them unless he first resolve not to be settled in any truth but to be ranked among those who circumferuntur omni vento doctrinae which in effect is no better than to have no true Faith at all Fiftly seeing they cannot nor ever could agree with those whom they stile Brethren and which is the main point have no possble means of agreement no men in wisdome can join themselves to the common generall name of Protestants not knowing which of them in particular hold the Truth nor who are or are not Protestants nor why they should believe one sect of them more than another neither is it possible to join with them all they believing and professing to believe contradictory Tenents some of which must needs be false Sixtly Seing those first Reformers are confessed to hold Doctrines in themselves damnable and detested even by Protestants how can they be excused from Heresy And seing they left the whole Catholick Church extant before Luther upon pretence of Errous in Doctrine of lesse moment than those wherin they thus differ among themselves and yet forsake not one another but will needs be Brethren and of one Communion how can they be excused from Schism by their division from the Communion of all Churches But now having declared what kind of men the Progenitots of Protestants were let us in the next place examine of what Fathers we Catholicks may deservedly glory even by the Confession of our Adversaries who by evidence of Truth are forced to confesse that the Antient Holy Fathers taught the same Doctrines and practised the same things which Protestants disprove in us and for the Reformation whereof they pretend to have forsaken our Church This then according to the order prescribed in the Preface must be the subject of the next Consideration THE SECOND CONSIDERATION By the Confession of Protestants the Antient Holy Fathers believed and practised the same things which we believe and practise against Protestants 1. FIrst saith Brereley tract 1. sect 3. subdivis 1. concerning Vows it is confessed that the Fathers did allow Vows of perpetual Chastity affirming them to be obligatory Non ignoramus saith Chemnitius exam part 3. pag. 14. ante med quod Patres vota perpetui caelibatûs probent quodque illa obligatoria etiam agnoscant In so much as he Chemnitius doth thereupon specially recite and reject in this behalf the several sayings of Basil [q] Chemnitius ibid. pag. 40. a. ante med Ambrose and Chrysostom Also of [r] Ibid. pag. 42. a. Epiphanins Austine and [s] Ibid. pag. 42. b. ante med Innocentius And it is likewise yet further affirmed that the [t] Peter Martyr de Votis pag. 490. saith Erant ergo Clementis aetate professiones vota fateor I am tune incaeperant homines deflectere à Verbo Dei c. With whom agreeth Mr. Parkins in Problem c. pag. 191. initio saying In antedictis saeculis stipulationes de continentia publice in Ecclesia fieri solebant nam Anno Christi 170. Clemens Alex. l. 3 stromat ait c. profession and Vows of Chastity were extant among Christians in the time of Clement Bishop of Alexandria who by [u] Euseb hist l. 6. c. 11. paulâ—ante med saith Clemens de se ipso loquitur quod prope ad Apostolorum tempoâ—a successerit his own testimony lived neer to the Apostles times that [x] Peter Martyr ibid. pag. 524 fine saith Scio Epiphanium cum multis aliis ex Patribus in eo errare quod peccatum esse dicunt votum hujusmodi violare cum onufuerit malè illum id referre in traditiones Apostolicas Epiphanius and many other Fathers erred therein that [y] Cent. 3. c. 6. col 140. linea 27. cent 3. c. 7. col 176. lâ—ea 39. Tertullian and Cyprian taught Vows of Chastity that the famous antient [z] Iustus Molitor de Ecclesia militante c. pag. 80. fine saith Chalcedonense Concilium contra Spiritus Sancti oracula Monachis Virginibus monialibus usum conjugii interdixit Council of Chalcedon did hereupon forbid Marriage to Monks and Nuns that St. Augustine and all the Fathers assembled with him in the Carthage Council [a] So saith Danaeus contra Bellarm. primae partis altera parte pag. 1011. initio And see Concil 4. Carthag can 104. and 1 Tim. 5.9 10 11 12. abused manifestly the word of God saying upon the Apostles words If any Widow how young soever c. hath vowed her self to God left her secular habit and under the testimony of the Bishop and Church appeared in a religious weed if afterward she go to secular Marriage she shall according to the Apostle have damnation because she dared to make void the vow of Chastity which she made to God that [b] Mr. Fulk against the Rhemish Testament in 1 Tim. 5. fol. 381. b. sect 10. initio And see Danaeus contra Belar 1. partis altera parte pag.
that many learned Protestants do not believe all such Doctrines and consequently are not capable of Salvation Pag. 269. n. 45. A man may possibly leave some opinion or practise of a Church formerly common to himself and others and continue still a member of that Church Provided that what he forsakes be not one of those things wherein the Essence of a Church consists For this cause he saith That although Protestants leave the external Communion of the Church yet they left not the Church because they left her not in any thing essential to a Church as Fundamental points are Therfore he supposeth the Church before Luther did not erre in any Fundamental Article Otherwise Protestants had left her that is they had disagreed from her in a Fundamental point P. 272. n. 52 and pag. 283. n. 73. He denies that Protestants divided themselves from the Church absolutely and simply in all things that is ceased to be a member of it which still supposes that the Church before Luther believed all essential and fundamental Points which Protestants also pretend to hold and for that cause say they left not the Church Pag. 272. n. 52. He saith In the reason of our separation from the external Communion of your Church you are mistaken For it was not so much because she your Church as because your Churches external Communion was corrupted and needed Reformation But if we erred in Fundamental points Protestants must have forsaken us chiefly for that reason that our Church was corrupted with Fundamental errours of Faith Therefore he grants that we erred not in any such necessary Points Pag. 401. n. 26. He confesseth that D. Potter saith indeed that our not cutting off your Church from the Body of Christ and hope of salvation frees us from the imputation of Schism Pag. 133. n. 12. He saith expresly By confession of both sides we agree in much more than is simply and indispensably necessary to salvation It is well he makes so open a confession that we believe much more than is simply necessary to salvation But as I said before we will not because we cannot yield so much to Protestants And here I must ask again how he could say Pag. 401. n. 27. As for our freeing you from damnable Heresie and yielding you salvation neither D. Potter nor any other Protestant is guilty of it Seeing he saith that by the confession of both sides we agree in much more than is simply and indispensably necessary to salvation If we believe much more than is necessary to salvation by what Logick will he deduce that we believe not as much as is necessary 8. These so many and so clear words of D. Potter and M. Chillingworth may justly make any man wonder with what pretence of truth or modesty he could say Pag. 280. n. 95. As for your pretence that your errours are confessed not to be Fundamental it is an affected mistake as I have often told you And Pag. 308. 108. As for your obtruding upon us that we believe the Points of difference not Fundamental or necessary you have been often told it is a calumny The oftner the worse it being a Saying void of all truth and a shamefull calumny in him 9. To these testimonies of Potter and Chillingworth many other might be alleged out of other Protestants as we have seen divers other alleged by Potter D. Laud in his book against Fisher Pag. 299. saith I doe acknowledge a possibility of salvation in the Roman Church But so as that which I grant to Romanists is not as they are Romanists but as they are Christians that is as they believe the Creed and hold the foundation Christ himself Behold not only a possibility of salvation but also the reason thereof because we believe the Creed c. which is the very reason for which Protestants hold that they themselves may be saved though they differ in many points from one another This I say is the reason of D. Laud which other Protestants must approve though in true Divinity it be of no force at all for though one believe the Creed and hold the foundation Christ himself that is that he is God and Saviour of the world yet if he deny any point evidently delivered in Scripture or otherwise sufficiently propounded as revealed by God he cannot be saved even according to Protestants who therefore doe in this as in many other things speak inconsequently and contradict themselves Pag. 376. he saith The Religion of the Protestants and the Romanists Religion is the same nor doe the Church of Rome and the Protestants set up a different Religion for the Christian Religion is the same to both but they differ in the same Religion Therefore say I we hold no Fundamental errors wherein whosoever differ cannot be of the same but must be of a different Religion And Pag. 129. The Protestants have not left the Church of Rome in her Essence not in the things which constitute a Church And Pag. 282. he saith The possibility of salvation in the Roman Church I think cannot be denyed and in proof hereof Pag. 281. he alleges Luther Field Joseph Hall Geor Abbot Hooker Mornaeus Prideaux Calvin And D. Jeremie Taylor in his liberty of Prophecying Pag. 251. sect 20. teaches that we keep the foundation and believe many more truths than can be proved to be of simple and original necessity to Salvation And therefore all the wisest Personages of the adverse party allowed to them possibility of Salvation whilst their errors are not faults of their will but weaknesses and deceptions of the understanding which as I said may easily be believed of us Catholicks who suffer so much for our Religion so that there is nothing in the foundation of Faith that can reasonably hinder them to be permitted The foundation of Faith stands secure enough for all their vain and unhandsome superstructures And in particular he shews that Prayer for the dead and the doctrine of Transubstantiation are not Fundamental errours and also saith these two be in stead of the rest Yea he affirmes Pag. 258 that there is implyed as great difficulty in the mystery of the B. Trinity as in the Doctrine of Transubstantiation and shewes that we are not in any danger of sinning by Idolatrie in adoring the Sacrament 10. Thus good Reader having proved out of the Confession of Protestants That the first Protestants who pretended to reform all Churches extant when they appeared led such lives and taught such Doctrines as no man of judgement can think them to have been fit Instruments for that Work That Protestants confesse the Ancient Holy Fathers to stand for us That the chiefest Protestant Writers joyn with Catholicks against other Protestants in the most principal Articles of Religion Yea even in those very points for which Luther and his followers opposed our Doctrine and forsook our Communion which deserves well to be considered That our Doctrines have been confirmed by Miracles and finally That all