from the Spirit of Christ as some Churches did which were as truly Christian and might lay claim unto Christs promise of preservation out of error as ever Rome could do and yet fix of the Seven Churches of Asia were reproved by the Spirit of Christ some of them for holding gross error and some for suffering it but where was the fault did not Christ perform his promise to his Church or to these and other particular Churches as Corinth and Galatia yes but there was an erring from the spirit but all that R. E. goes about is to prove which he will never be able to do that Christ is bound by promise to make it good to them that he hath once promised unto though they perform nothing of their part in taking heed to his direction and thus would limit the Lord and let men go free without obedience to his commands and he cites Mat. 28. 2â— how the promise of Christ was and lo I am always with you even to the end of the World but he hath done as the Devil did when he brought it is written to Christ left out half the words so R. E. hath left out the Conditions on the Disciples part and that which was their duty teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I command you then loe I am with you c. But R. E. likes not obedience it seems unto Christs commands and yet he will needs be a sharer in the promise and of the Power that was given and bind God unto that and he and his Church to be loose to do and to teach what they will but as to all the Scriptures he hath brought and minced them and cut them in peece meale and all the Inferences he makes this we acknowledge without multiplicity of words that whatsoever was promised to the Church of Christ and the Disciples of Christ As the Church of Christ and Disciples of Christ the same promise of Christ doth belong to the Church of Christ and Disciples of Christ in every age and stands upon the same condition viz. obedience unto his will and that they still do teach and no other thing but what he commands them then he is with them according to his promise but let not R. E. nor his Roman Catholicks look if they teach things repugnant to his mind and contrary to his will and press upon others to believe that which Christ hath never taught that then the promise of God will be so intailed to them as that they cannot err and here the deceit of thine and your hearts hath led you aside and this is one of the cuning sleights of men and craftiness whereby you lay in wait to deceive and by this you have deceived many because God hath made such large promises unto his Church how that they should be led into all truth and preserved out of error and you are their successors and must needs inherit this promise by way of intail and you cannot err you cannot be deceived because the Apostles was infallible therefore you must needs be infallible though you err and go aside never so much from the infallible spirit the true guide and judge of and in the Church of God as though you had been born to infallibility and the spirit of truth had comed by succession but the inward Light which thou scoffes at and the spirit of truth which thou calls a private spirit often hath discovered you and your spirit though thou boast of fifteen ages that your Doctrine hath been held by the Pastours and Teachers in your visible Church as in the 57. page of thy Epistle suppose I should grant the fifteen hundred years which I neither can nor will but I will lead thee to the sixteen hundred years and try thee and your Doctrine that you have held this fifteen hundred year if it be so as thou saith but this thou likes not but seeing thou pleads antiquity let us come on and joyne issue prove us Transubstantiation in the first hundred year nay I will give thee five hundred more and if I gave thee five more thou would hardly prove it before the Council of Trent prove us the Doctrine of Purgatory in the first hundred year and if thou take two it shall not offend me prove us the forbiding of Ministers to marry in the first hundred year and abstenance from Meats as though they were unclean which are created by God for the use of Believers prove us that Man hath a twofold right to the Kingdom of Heaven as your great Bellarmine saith the one by Christ the other by a Man 's own works prove us Invocation of Angels and prayer and Sacrifice for the Dead the first hundred year after Christ prove us their selling of Pardons in Christs and the Apostles days for Money prove us seting up of Images as to put Men in mind of the Saints deceased and of their Works prove us Baptism of Infants with Cream and Spittle and signing with the Cross and Godfathers and Godmothers and let us have some example beyond bare report for we dare not relie upon your infallible spirit in these things therefore convince us for we are gain-sayers and upon good ground and we do look upon all these Doctrines and many more not to be of such a great age as thou tells on neither to have any affinity or congruaty with the Church of Christ in his or the Apostles time nor sundry years after but rather look upon them as Doctrines of Devils and a very novelty a further Scripture R. E. urges 1 Tim. 3. 15. the Church of the living God the pillar and ground of truth and may we not relie of that pillar that God hath erected for us saith he and he that hears you hears me and go teach all Nations and lo I am with you always and yet if after all these promises if the Church may not be believed except she teacheth according to the Scriptures and be only infallible but when she doth her duty then the Church hath no more privilege then the Devil hath for so long as he teaches conformable to the Scripture he may be believed and so long as he teaches truth he may be believed saith R. E. in page the 58 59. Answ. The Church is in God 1 Thes. 1. and is the pillar and ground of truth she is in the world though not of the world and though the members thereof be visible in the world yet the world that lies in wickedness never owned them as such neither saw the glory of this Church but always persecuted it and was so far from owning it as rule and judge as it altogether gainsayed its direction but they that did believe in the word of life and were separated from the world and hated by it were willing to hear the Councel and to receive the instruction of the Church of God and the Church only medled with their own Members as in matter of Judgment and not of the
one the Lay Gentleman he mentions and himself speaking to one speaks to both First Whether that any can be certain that the Christians in general is more true then the Turkes Jewes or any other and whether any can be infallibly assured of this that it is not possible for one to be mistaken in this and again the answer amounting to no more then this you conceive you are in the right you hope and believe you are not mistaken but it is possible you may be mistaken in this for every Man is a Lyer and every Man and all Men and every Church is fallible and subject to error and with these and the like words R. E. was extreamly troubled as he saith and knew not how to answer without shuffling Answer The true Christian Religion stands not only in name nor in words nor in conforming or transforming to this or that outward practice which the Disciples of Christ were exercised in which divers in the latter days in their old corrupt minds not having their hearts renewed have taken on the outside and have got the form and wants the life and the power and are not partakers of the Divine nature of Christ and such a bare profession as this has no certainty nor infallibility in it neither the assurance but that they may be mistaken and may be subject to err as well as Turkes or Jewes or any other but the true Christian Religion indeed whom Christ will own as true Worshippers of Him stands in power in life and in being obedient unto his living commands and precepts which he giveth forth unto his Disciples and manifesteth by his Spirit his Sheep hear his voice and know it from the voice of a stranger And he giveth the knowledge of his will to all that believe in the measure of his eternal Spirit which he hath given every one a measure of to profit withal and by it to be guided into all truth out of all error and this Spirit is infallible and gives certain assurance to all that receive it that they are in that way which is acceptable to God and they feel comfort unto their souls coming daily from the presence of Christ who is the Rock of Ages and the sure foundation upon which his holy Church is founded which is the pillar and ground of truth and they that are living members are not grounded upon a fallible certainty or upon a conjectural supposition or a vain hope which is without bottom but upon that which is sure and stedfast lasting and everlasting and all men in the unregenerate estate are lyers but they that are born from above are of the truth and lie not and are not subject to mistakes because the seed remains in them and walkes in the pure Religion which keeps unspoted of the World and they that have no other ground for their Religion but only without them and from the report of others are short of the true foundation for that may be truth in it self indeed which is not true to another nor he truly partakes of it and here is all the supposing conjectures and mistakes and fallible certainties which it seems R. E. and his lay Gentleman too when the axe is laid to the root of the tree indeed and not withstanding all the laying claim to infallibility and certainty its but grounded upon a report without and the traditions of men from Generation to Generation For them that believe but only because of the true report without and cometh not to witness the thing assured in their own hearts by the Spirit of the Lord these will not be long of that faith 't is true many did believe because of the Apostles Declaration and report but at last came to feel the witness of God in their own hearts testifying the self same in so much that they could say and truly too though we have believed through your words at the first yet now we have heard him our selves and that which giveth perfect assurance which admits of no doubts nor fallibleness for such evidence all true Members of Christ's Church have in themselves which carries divine authority and satisfaction in it to every particular Believer and so I say with R. E. in this it seemes unreasonable to perswade any to receive this or that for a truth when they that so perswade are uncertain in themselves neither dare say their judgment is infallible which is that old Protestant Principle indeed and also the Principle of many Sects who differs from the pretended Catholick Church of Rome who persecuted one another about outward things even as the Heathen about their Idols and yet will need sit as Judge in Mens Consciences with their fallible spirit though I speak not of every individual person neither can I justifie the Roman Catholick Church so called who layes claim to infallibility and whatsoever they judge to be Heresie must be reckoned as such though never so manifest a truth and to place infallibility in men that may err and have erred from the spirit I like not neither for this is to give that to men that belongs to God and to make the Judgment of fallible men above the Judgment of the infallible spirit of God and this I look to be great ambition and pride in any to lay claim to the greatest things as infallibility and certainty of assurance and the most free of error and yet falls the shortest of it of any as hath been made appear by many learned and grave Men of former ages and also if a necessity were might be made appear that the Church of Rome who saith she cannot err have been as uncertain both in their Doctrine and Worship as any yea more one Pope contradicting and throwing down that which another did establish and one Council decreeing and another disanulling as I could easily make appear but that I would not be tedious to the Reader in things that have been so manifest neither do I desire to wade out into diversity of matters in so short a Discourse But that which R. E. and his Catholick instructer calleth late wild and loose opinions that men of different faiths may be saved and this countenanceth schisme and breeds rebellion as it is said 't is true faith is but one which is saving and there is no differance in that for the difference is among Men where that is wanting and only have the words and name of faith and want the life and power Neither am I so narrow spirited as R. E. and his Catholick as to exclude all out of the faith who may differ in their perswasions in some Circumstantial things if yet they hold Christ the head and what makes R. E. so verilent as to judge all in error and to be out of the true faith seeing the Protestants and all sorts of separates professe Justification and Salvation only through faith in Christ Jesus as well as the Church of Rome and it were unreasonably judged in me if I should conclude
And as for all thy Collections out of the Prophets of the promise of God to his Church Isaiah 54. and 56. and of its indowments and glory and excellency and of his puting his spirit in them and of his word in their mouthes and that it should not depart from the seed nor the seeds seed for ever this is granted and the promise is not to Men as Men but to the seed which is not many but one but Israel was this true Church then in the time of this Prophesie though it have relation to future ages also and if R. E. looks that this promise should be to Israel after the flesh the Church then visible and in being he mistakes himself and he egragiously errs and contradicts the Scripture in sundry places which saith your house is left unto you desolate their Sacrifices ceased the Glory of God departed from them their Prophets prophesied a divination of their own brain and their visions were as visions of the night and the Lord spake not to the most of them yet they said falsly thus saith the Lord in their revolted estate for they were erred from the spirit and gone from the seed and joyned to another seed and their holy flesh was departed from them though as men they had the same flesh still go learn what that means and yet notwithstanding all this the promise of God was not violated neither unfulfilled on Gods part for the promise was not then neither now is to Natural Generations or that which is born after the flesh or to men as men and Creatures but as they are the seed and as they are Men of God and as they are born again and new Creatures and if thou will have an intailing here it is intailed which cannot be cut off for the Covenant stands not to Men in such a place that carries the name of Office or Authority but as they are led by the Spirit the infallible Judge rule or guide as they walk by this and in this they cannot err and they erring from this they are subject to be deceived and to be mistaken in all things and every thing of which there is evident examples in the Scriptures of truth in divers ages of them that professed themselves members of the Church of God and so visible as R. E. speaks of yea and the greater part too that have erred and their paths hath been reckoned by the Lord as crooked and perverse and their Habitants full of cruelty and this is given for an instance the visible Church of the Jewes did err and go aside notwithstanding all the promise of God to them and as they looked that it still belonged to them because they were invisible profession though they had turned their backs upon the Lord and their hearts too and violated his Covenant yet still as I said the promise of God and the Covenant of God is not made of none effect nor broken on Gods part but stands with the seed for ever who are circumcised in heart and who worshipes God in spirit and truth and in uprightness of heart and hath no confidence in the flesh nor fleshly privileges nor external performances but only trusts unto the gift of Righteousness manifest in them by which Justification comes upon all that believes and the fulness of the blessing of the Gospel of Christ and the fulness of the promise of God but these things I know though they be holy faithful and true are a sealed Book and hid from all eyes living in the flesh who hath not been baptised into the death and suffering of Christ. Fourthly That Christ by his own mouth and the mouthes of the Apostles did promise that there should be a Church which the Gates of Hell should not prevail against and this Church was established upon the Everlasting Foundation and the Rock of Ages and was indued with power from an high and with a great measure of the spirit of God according unto Christ's promise which more plentifully was poured forth after Christs departure and after his Ascension and great gifts were given unto them the word of Knowledge the word of Wisdom the Interpretation of Tongues the gift of Tongues the gift of Prophesie the gift of discerning Spirits healing the sick working of Miracles c. and all these foresaid gifts were given for the work of the Ministry for the perfecting of the Saints for the edifying of the body of Christ till we all come into the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God and unto a perfect man and to the measure and stature of the fulness of Christ Ephes. 4. 11 12 13. And all these were instrumental through the Spirit of God which was with them and in them the only means to bear witness unto those things that they had learned and believed and to publish the word of faith abroad unto the World and for all these aforesaid ends above mentioned which though R. E. and his Catholicks will need lay claim to the succession by way of office yet by their Doctrine denies in part the very end wherefore such gifts were given to wit the Doctrine of Purgatory for if they did perfect the Saints or were brought up to the knowledge of the Son of God and to perfect men in Christ Jesus and to be without sin what need had there been of raising up this damnable Doctrine out of the pit to purge from sin after they be dead seeing they were to be perfect men while they were alive and the Ministry was given for this end but yours it seems cannot have these effects on this side of the Grave and therefore they must perfect them in the grave and so be Ministers in another World And this Church thus gathered and endued before mentioned with the infallible Spirit of God if any that did sometime believe and were joyned unto it did walk disorderly as not becoming the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ they were to be admonished and exhorted and if they persisted in their disorder it was to be told to the Church or the whole body and if such a one would not hear the Church he was to be reckoned as a Publican or a Heathen and to be denyed as to have any fellowship with him till manifest repentance was shewn but we never read that this Church did shed any mans blood or burn any or give consent to destroy any instance if thou can though obstinate and Hereticks too and in this amongst many other things the spirit of your Church is seen to be contrary to the Primitive Church and you out of Christs Doctrine but R. E. argues further and saith but if Christ by his Spirit doth not preserve this Church from all possibility of teaching error instead of truth I may receive such errors as may damn me unto which I say Christ by his spirit doth preserve this Church from all possibility of teaching error if they continue in the guidance thereof and err not
world further then by preaching repentance in it for the Apostle saith what have we to do to judge them that are without and this Church as in God was secure to relie upon for she had the Oracles of God committed unto her and every one may relie upon this pillar if they dare trust it which I see R. E. dare not because he likes not to be tyed to their Doctrine declared of in the Scriptures but would have all to take what they say for granted without the Scripture or the Apostle example or spirit and is not this unreasonable in thee that would have the Church to be believed or that which calls it self so by name when she teacheth not conformable to Scriptures and to the faith which was once delivered among the Saints and would thou have a Church reckoned infallible and to be believed when she doth not her duty the Churches privileges is in speaking truth and judging righteously and the Devil was a lyer from the beginning and is out of the truth and where hath thou read that he teaches conformable to Scripture and so may be believed is not the promise of God to his Disciples as they continued to the end and as they kept his Commandements and were they not known to be the Church of God and Disciples of Christ by this and was not the promise to them that hungred and thirsted after Righteousness and to them that did overcome and was not the exhortation to the Church of Philadelphia hold fast that which thou hast that none take thy Crown Rev. 3. 11 12. Was there not a possibility of leting go that which they had and of loosing the Crown or else why is the exhortation But I see R. E. would lay claim to promises and privileges without all condition and will not be tyed to keep the commands of Christ nor would not have the Church tyed to follow the Doctrine of the Primitive Church nor will not admit of any possibility or probability of failing or erring nay not so much as a mistake but as to infallibility and certainty I have said enough before and the confidence or rather the impudence of R. E. is easily seen and to make up all he concludes the Apostles as Men were subject to error in their private affaires yet were they by the assistance of Gods Spirit infallible in delivering matters of faith I say as they were assisted by the holy Spirit of God they neither erred in private affaires nor matters of faith but as they were not assisted by this they were subject to err for in this stood their only ability to teach instruct exhort and judge and as they were guided by this Spirit they were infallible and so R. E. saith that the Prelats of the holy Catholick Church as Men they are fallible in their own private actions and affairs yet when they are assembled in a general Council with their supream Pastor they are still made infallible in determining matters of Faith It is well that R. E. will grant that there is any possibility for their Prelats to fail either publick or private but I say he that is not faithful in his own actions and affaires can never be faithful in the Lords but it seems a General Council cannot fail when the supream Pastor the Pope is there but if he be not it seems by E's discourse it is more doubtful the like he also judges if the eleven Disciples and the seventy too with the Brethren and Elders if they had all been to define matters of Faith if Peter had been wanting which this Catholick Church calls the Prince of the Apostles there had been some doubt of their infallibility in point of faith as though the promise of God and the Spirit of God had not been with the rest of the Apostles as well as Peter but a word or two and more hereafter of the infallibility of General Councils the Nicean Council decreed flat Idolatry about Worshipping of Images the Council at Constantinople condemned their Proceedings and made void their Decrees yet both these in E's account must needs be infallible the Council at Basil as Albertus Phigious saith decreed against all reason and against Scriptures the Council of Calcedon which was one of the four that Gregory the great compares to the four Gospels that their Decrees were as certain and infallible yet Pope Leo did not stick to condemn it and all them as unadvised Stephanius Bishop of Rome made void the Decrees of Formosus and Sabinian the Pope commanded that Pope Gregory's Mass and all his Writings should be burned Leo the fourth abrogated and made void the Acts of Adrian the Basil Council determined that the Council of Bishops was above the Pope but the Latterine Council under Leo determined that the Pope was above the Council and they decreed also that he that should think otherwise should be held for a Heretick but the Council of Basil aforesaid decreed that they that judged that the Council was not above the Pope they were Hereticks Innumerable more instances I might give but that I will not trouble my Reader with such unprofitable stories and all these Popes said they were Peters Successors and had the keys of binding and loosing and all these Councils and many more which were of the Roman faith which in E's account could not err but must needs be infallible and yet are as contradictory one to another as light is to darkness and black to white and looks with their faces several ways like Samsons Foxes and therefore let not R. E. nor none of his Catholicks think that the Church of Christ now coming out of the Wilderness again can receive all their contradictory Decrees and invented fopperies and constitutions of Men for infallible the day is broken the light hath taken hold of the ends of the Earth the Sun is risen which shall make all the foggy mists of darkness and clouds of ignorance to fly away But R. E. ceases not here but heapes up one peece of darkness upon another till blackness of darkness appear and he tells of a visible Church Mat. 16. which is builded upon Peter that visible Rock for that Rock there spoken of is not Christ saith he but Peter for immediately after he names Peter whereas saith he if he had meaned himself or Peters confession for that saith he is too remote or mediate and anticedent for if Christ had meaned himself or Peters confession he should have spoken according to the Grammer Rule and Construction Vpon that Rock or upon this Rock I have build I do build and not I will build in the 63. page and in the 64. page he tells of a Church visible having two heads of an Independent Head and a Dependent Head and in the 66. page he saith he hopes that it will appear clear to all as it did to him that the visible Church is that Rule and Judge appointed by God and all upon pain of damnation are to submit unto
largly of by other hands and pens so that I need not say much But Miracles be not evermore undoubted proofes of a true Doctrine nor such absolute signes of a true Church nor such infallible arguments as from Heaven as R. E. saith his is and so I shall conclude with that which Austin said unto Faustus the Manicha Ye work no Miracles and yet if ye wrought any at your hands we would take heed of them and Jer. 23. saith the false Prophets have deceived my people by their lies and by their lightness and by their dreams and Miracles And so hath this false fained pretended Catholick Church done deceived The Nations and bewitched them with such lying fabulous stories and false and ridiculous miracles and sorceries and inchantments as is above mentioned and many more of the like nature might be mentioned but that I would not be tedious to the Reader which if they were summed up all would hardly make up a Heavenly argument and proof as R. E. saith it doth that their Church is the only true Church and fit to be the rule and judge of all matters of faith and now Reader view over their Miracles before mentioned and see if thou can receive them because the Church of Rome saith they are true and must not be questioned for if thou do thou art like to come under a hard censure by the verdict of R. E. and his Catholick Church first to be reckoned as an unbeliever secondly to be a hater of God and thirdly in not believing these Miracles or whatsoever else shall be declared unto thee by the said Church or else thou comes under no les penalty then eternal damnation as R. E. saith in the 80. page of his Epistle but it is a small thing to be judged by man and especially such a man who hath gaded abroad and changed his way so osft so that he hath forgotten the true path of Righteousness to walk in or else never knew it and hath turned and wheeled about and now at last doth as the poor Indian doth with his Deer skin hangs it upon one shoulder and so upon the other shoulder to shelter him from the wind and tempest that comes of that side But the day is dawned and mens spirits are discovered beyond their words and all the turnings and wheelings of things upside down is but as the Potters Clay for God measures every man not by his words but by his heart and spirit and works and will judge every one in Righteousness according to their deeds And R. E. goes on as confident that his arguments and reasons laid down hath prevailed and almost takes it for granted that it must needs be evident to all that the Roman Church is the true Church and saith he knows but one single point between the Catholicks and them that stand devided from them and that is saith he that we follow a several rule to guide and judge in the great affaires of faith for all sides are bound to believe all truths sufficiently propounded to them to be revealed of God and therefore if the presence of Christ in the Sacrament Purgatory worshipping of Images Invocation of Saints and prayer to the Dead and for the Dead if these or any other point of faith be sufficiently propounded by denying them Gods varassaty is denyed and God thereby made a lyer The difference stands betwixt you and them that are devided from you in more particulars then thou art aware of or ever will be able sufficiently to propound them to be revealed of God though it is true some are but devided from you in Circumstantials and Ceremonies and some others in some points of Faith and Worship yet some deny you in the very ground though 't is true the different rule by which each party are directed is a great and a main thing thou saith this Church Catholick is the rule but I say and am not alone that Christ is the way to the Father and the way to the Kingdom and the rule and means by which his Church is governed and he is the Lawgiver and the judge and all Judgment is committed to the Son and it is he alone that propounds truth sufficiently and they that are in him are new Creatures and that which is the new Creatures rule guide and judge is the rule guide and judge of the Church of God and Christ is the author of faith and it is nothing that availes any thing with God but the new Creature and as many as walk according to this rule peace is to them Gal. 3. 16. and Christ hath not left his people without guide for he said lo I am with you to the end of the world So as to commit the guidance thereof to fallible men who may assume authority without his power and to fasten those things upon God as to be revealed from him when the Lord hath spoken nothing and we are so far from looking that the main grounds that thou lays down to prove your Church to be this rule and guide and the many Doctrines propounded by you are not sufficiently propounded to be revealed of God but rather they are the imaginations of your own brain and things packt up since the Apostles days by different Popes and different mutations and alterations in your Church for filthy Lucres sake and so to deny them is not to deny Gods varassaty neither to make God a lyer as thou falsly saith but thou and you are the lyers as to propound those things to be revealed from God and to be received by all under pain of damnation when God hath revealed no such thing but the contrary and so thy own words at last shall turn to be thy burden because thou saith the Lord saith and hath revealed and sufficiently preposed the real presence of Christ in your Sacrament of the Alter as a devine Revelation worshipping of Images Prayer to the Dead and for the Dead and all the foolish imagination which you have brought in and intruded and thrust upon people by force and these are sufficiently propounded as thou saith as devine Revelations and the Father Son and Holy Ghost or the Incarnation of Christ silence deceit and for shame blush so to say the Prophets who spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost and prophesied of things to come they declared of the Father Son and Holy Ghost all and prophesied long before that a Virgin should bring forth a Son whose name should be called Emanuel God with us and the Government should be upon his shoulders this the Pope hath usurped and you put it upon his Shoulders but your invented Doctrines aforesaid are meerly the imaginations of your own brain which neither the Prophets nor Apostles bore witness unto but against and therefore it is thy and your great presumption to make God Christ and Apostles the foundation of all this rubbish straw and stuble which thou would put off as devine revelation and as sufficiently preposed as the
a man to be no man because he is not so tall as another but I see R. E. and his Catholick would have all Shoos made by their Last though they will not fit every mans feet Faith is the gift of God there are divers degrees and measures according to the mind and good pleasure of the giver so that he that hath received any measure or degree must not be excluded as having no faith though he attain not to that degree that some do enjoy and the Apostles Doctrine was that every one should be perswaded in his own mind and if any was otherwise minded they were to be let alone till God revealed it to them And whatsoever people or Church though they claim infallibility that teaches a contrary Doctrine unto this we have good reason to suspect it to be that hasty driving and overdriving spirit that would force a faith where God hath not given it not to be the infallible spirit of our Lord Jesus Christ of which the Church of Rome hath given a vehement cause of suspition by their cruelty and tortors they have exercised towards them who could not receive their Principles and own their Judgment in all things But R. E. the Lay-Gentleman blinded thy eye when he made thee call into question the truth of Scripture and that it proceeded from the infallible Testimony of Gods spirit and if thou had a certain feeling of the same in thy self and in thy own Conscience to let this go and make this void as an insufficient ground to receive Christianity upon to lean to a prop without thee and to be judged by men who have been as fallible and changable in their Judgments as the Moon which have assumed the name of Catholick Church whose Testimony thy Instructer I perceive told thee ought to be received concerning what as is pretended to be revealed or not revealed by God yet all must be obliged to stand to their Judgment though never so repugnant to the Doctrine of Christ and practice of the Church of Christ in the first Primitive times truly so called yet it is granted that the Church of Christ are the dispersed Members through the World though not of it agreeing in one faith being in the power of God and being led and guided by the Holy Ghost their Judgments ought to be received which cannot as lead by the Spirit fail in giving true Judgment in matters of faith which pertains to Salvation but as men they may fail and as erring from the spirit they may fail and infallibility is not intailed to the persons of any men but as they continue in the grace of God and walk in the spirit and bring forth the fruits thereof nor to any place or City but as they continue in Covenant with God for the promise of God was to Jerusalem and Mount Zion and to many other places and people in divers Cities where the glory of God once appeared but now through their Apostacy and unbelief and disobedience they are desolate as to the presence and power of God and their Sun is set and they are covered as with the shadow of a Cloud but this true Church whereof I have spoken was seen to fly into the Wilderness for time times and a half and that since the Apostles days and then was she not so visible and universal as she had been before and the man child was caught up unto God now if thou reckon the Roman Church to be this true Church shew the time times and half a time wherein she fled into the Wilderness and how long she hath been there and when was the time of her return and if ever she was there how that will hang together with your assertion that she hath been visible and so universal this fiften hundred years and if this could be proved that Rome hath been so whether doth it not rather demonstrate her to be the Whore that sat upon the many waters which waters are Nations Kindreds Tongues and People and what Church instance if thou can doth lay claim to the Nations Kindreds Tongues and People to be yours and to rule over so many Kings of the Earth as you lay claim to be universally of your faith and of your Church which gives us a shrewd character to believe that indeed you are mystery Babylon besides the blood of the Saints that have been shed under the name of Hereticks by this visible Catholick Church among the Nations this twelve 100. years doth give clear evidence that it can be reckoned or imputed unto none but you But I would not grate too hard upon thee being but a new convert but when thy instructer had made thee doubt of thy own state and question the foundation whereupon thou hadst received christianity the next thing he labours to make void is the Spirit of God its Testimony which thou did lay claim too but I feel had little portion in what thou said at last he makes thee doubt of the infallibility of this spirit which thou had spoke on might for ought thou knew be the spirit of error and thou not able to distinguish betwixt the spirit of God in thy self which is infallible and the spirit of error nor to distinguish betwixt their opperations he perswaded thee that all was uncertain and therefore no confidence to be given to any spirit or faith in ones own particular which is the most absurd and ridiculous thing in the world so to judge For if there be no certainty or assurance given to any man or means to every man wherein he may be assured of the certainty of Gods will then whither should any go or upon whom should any lean seeing that no credit can be given to any thing that any man believes and this were but tossing up and down men from mountain to hill that they might never have rest for their souls And as for Jer. 17. and Eccles. 9. Rev. 3. The heart of man is deceitful c. No man knows love or hatred c. And because thou sayest I am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing c. These Scriptures was brought unto thee to make thee more blind the first is spoken of the degenerated estate where deceit bears rule and not truth the second is spoken of visible enjoyments which are common to all and the third was spoken to one who had erred from the spirit and was exalted in pride because of external performances but having lost the power was miserable c. But what of all this doth this any whit at all detract from the certainty and assurance of the Spirit of God in them that hath it what shall we reason thus because some have been led aside and are deceived by their own hearts lusts that therefore all may be deceived even them that have the spirit of God God forbid and we have some what more to answer an Arian a Jew or a Turk if they should urge the like knowledg and feeling
all these and is sufficient to lead out of all ungodliness and worldly lusts and to do that which is acceptable in the sight of God and this all sects since the Woman cloathed with the Sun fled into the Wilderness viz. the true Church and all parties hath laid claim to and excluded all others that were not of their opinion as from having any share in it as though it were given only to such a company of men that succeeded the Apostles and by arts and parts and natural Language in the course and term of years and at such and such places as the Apostles were sometime conversant at and other sects besides you who have kept more nearer in Conformity in Doctrine and Worship and unto the Apostles then you have done they have laid claim to the spirit of God and to the free Grace of God only extending it self to them under such a quallification as though the Spirit of God and free and saving Grace of God had come by Generation or by succession or because of such and such a quallification or conforformity in outward practice as I said as though the free Grace of God and the infallible Spirit of God had been given to you and had been bequeathed and intailed to you or any of you under such and such a denomination and because inhabiting at such a place and thus you would limit the holy one of Israel and to stop the wind to blow where it listeth and circumscribe the infallible means which God hath given unto all Mankind for a direction and a guide a rule and a judge and pinch it up into a narrow corner and yet shut up all under condemnation who do not believe and yet exclude all but your selves from the sufficient meanes and guide and way whereby they may believe away away with this narrow partial pinching spirit for God will not be limited neither can be either to Men time or place but as they keep in Covenant with him and keeps their first love and integrity in the certain truth revealed in the first publication of the Gospel which the Roman Church above all other hath wonderfully apostatised from especially in this one thing which she can never clear her self of to wit Persecution in taking away the lives of many under the name of Hereticks and suppose any had been so as doubtless there are such yet we never read that it was Christ or the Apostles way to kill them and destroy them but on the contrary denyed them and warned others to beware of them and to have no fellowship with them and so left them to the World neither that they exhorted or stired up either Kings or Princes to take away the lives of any who did believe or not believe what as they declared to be truth but on the contrary when the Disciples in the days of their infancy would have commanded fire to have come down from Heaven as did Elias Christ rebuked them and told them they knew not what spirit they were of and again love your enemies and do good to them that hate you How your Catholick Church hath kept this precept I leave all Nations to judge where your power hath been known suppose real Schismaticks and Hereticks as some such there hath been in the world how you have done good to them and how you have loved them is manifest except you judge that shuting them up in Prisons racking tortering and cruel torments and at last of all death was in love to them and in doing good to them which methinks any reasonable man should blush and be ashamed to think or say But an old Plea comes to my mind which some of the members of the Church of Rome hath alledged to me in the days of my youth when I was conversant with them and among them in a friendly neighbourly and sober discourse of things of this nature before mentioned it was said unto me the Roman Catholick Church is that Church whereby Christianity hath been conveyed to all Nations and the great Oraccles thereof delivered unto us and the Scriptures also came from us by which you know the Mysteries of the Kingdom of God and the knowledg thereof came unto all and all her Children ought to be subject unto her as the true mother that brought them all forth and if any went astray either into Heresie or Schisme which might not only hurt themselves but also others ought not the Mother in natural love to her Children to correct them and ought not they to bear her correction and submit unto it and hath not she power to correct her Children when they go astray unto which is answered Christianity that which is truly such and them whom God will own to be Christians was dispersed through the Nations by the power of God and we say that the Church of Rome hath begotten Christendom into that mould and frame into which they are now cast more by force and awe then any sound Doctrine and as for the Scriptures coming from her that we deny We know they came from the Apostles and from the Primitive Christians according to the will of God and have been preserved to this day though through many polluted hands they have come and we know how much your rage was kindled that ever it should be Translated into the English Tongue and many felt the effect of it to the loss of their Lives as I hope many in England doth well consider But suppose a true Mother have many Children and suppose some do swerve and go astray from her precepts and under pretence of correcting of them she shut them up in Goals and nasty holes and afflict them with sundry kind of torments and at last of all kill them and destroy them what Judgment will be given by reasonable Men of such a Mother but this that she is become unnatural and cruel and hard hearted and degenerated from the nature of a loving and tender Mother and deserves not to have or ever to have had any Children and such a kind of Mother hath your Church been to all that have dissented from her that I may say of her as the Prophet Jeremiah said especially in these latter ages the Sea Monsters and Dragons of the Wilderness draw out their breasts to feed their young ones but the daughter of my people is become cruel Seventhly and lastly We know that God willeth that all Men should be saved and come to the knowledg of the truth and hath given that and doth give that unto every man that is come into the World whereby every man that doth receive it is capable of fulfilling the will of God and this gift comes not by the will of Man nor is received in the will of Man but in its own will even in the will of the giver and this free gift of God is the free and saving Grace of God which hath appeared unto all Men to wit every man that is come into the World which teaches
believe others but thou hath been so busie abroad in quareling and contending about words and names and empty shews without substance and life that thy mind is all over grown with thorns and briers scrawling and scratching and entangling thy self and others so that that which should savour the things of God is over grown in these and it s buried and to them that are like heaths in a desart knows not when good comes neither doth know what they enjoy that dwell in the fat Vallies and the Pharisees had such unbelieving hearts though Christ was the express Image of God and did the works that never man did yet being without faith and without reason they said he was a Blasphemer and all his works was done by Belzebub and would never be convinced that any thing he did was of God and that spirit is near thee which would represent the fruits of the Spirit to be delusion and them that bring them forth like them in Bedlam and what though Turks Jews Pagans Mahomet and the false Christians do pretend to the spirit and guidance by it and yet bring forth the fruits of the flesh doth this make the spirit of God void or the certainty of it to them that believe or do make their fruits of none effect God forbid thy ignorance is manifest but here thou ceases not thy tongue being thy own and thou being at liberty and speaks thy own words which in the end shall become thy burden Thou vapours and vaunts over them to wit all the Nonconformists and saith what can you say for your selves any of you which these Enthusiasts who have gone before you to maintain their errors but the rule and judge and then thou concludes that which God hath appointed to be rule and judge to all the world and capable of being known and heard by all and cannot contradict it self nor must be contradicted by any under pain of damnation if you cannot shew it to have been your rule you ought to lay aside your folly as destructive to humane society and them that hath pretended the spirit the strongest party and sword upon the vote will prove it self the most convincing spirit and force the weaker spirits to submit or cry for thou concludes the Nonconformists have no other Testimony to try your contradicting spirits in matters of greatest moment but force and success if you have I pray you inform me what it is Ans. If the wind had not turned into another door divers Nonconformists believes we should have had another song from thee if time had but favoured thee so far as to have granted thee the privilege of thy Troop to be Captain which name thou holds up yet i' th pride of thy heart though thou have lost thy force success and pay which was the greatest plea when time was with thee and not long since too which makes thee measure every Man's foot by thy Last and thou might have received information before thou had made a conclusion had been the part of a wise man before thou had set thy self as Judge over all thy former fellowships which thou fainedly pretends so great love to and before thou had discovered their nakedness if it be nakedness to all the world in such a publick insulting bravado as this like Goliah of Gath and as for what some Nonconformists both to the Church of Rome and to the Church of England too which thou creeping and sneakingly flatters and saith its established and therefore thou will not meddle thou might have said dare not for thy spirit is well enough seen by them only to have the spirit of a slave and not a free member of the true Church of God and it s no part of vertue nor honour for thee to insult and glory over them who are in suffering and adversity when as thou dare not meddle with them who are as contrary to thee as the former this is but the spirit of a Coward and is ignoble and base and ever so to be accounted by all the Children of Light who dare put all to venture which they do enjoy on this side of Immortality and to suffer the loss of all visible things for their Testimony and the truth which they believe and for bearing witness against that which is contrary unto their faith as did the valiant Primitive Christians of old and that which some Nonconformists can say is more then thou can believe although demonstrated in the evidence of the spirit of God with sound reason and evident example from the Scriptures of truth and though thou and thy former fellowships then and thy new fellowships now have made this vapour which for ought I know might lay your hands upon your mouths all considering what contradictory Doctrines and fruits hath been brought forth since the night of Apostacy entered in and all the World wondered after the Beast some hath this to say he that pretends to the Spirit and the thing cometh not to pass that they speak or prophesie let him be accounted a false Prophet again they that pretend guidance of the spirit as some formerly have done and yet bring forth the fruits of the flesh as variance hatred emulation strife contention heresie false Doctrine persecution force and violence let them he counted as truly they are deceivers and deluders which have gone out into the world and deceived a great part of Mankind of which Rome hath not had the least share clear it when thou can Moreover he that pretends to have the spirit of God and layes down another foundation to build upon in matter of Faith in matter of Rule in matter of Judgment in matter of Doctrine then that which the Lord of Life and Glory hath laid down he is a Deceiver and an Antichrist but R. E. hath laid down another rule another way another Judge another foundation for Faith and let himself make the Conclusion if he once dare joyne to true Judgment other Foundation can none lay then that which is already laid to wit Christ Jesus the Foundation of the Prophets and Apostles and of the Church of God by which they were all builded up as a holy Habitation for God to dwell in through the spirit Again the Apostle saith All Judgment is committed to the Son both in Heaven and Earth and again he saith himself I am the Way the Truth and the Life and none can come to the Father but by me and again the Spirit of Truth shall lead and direct his Disciples into all truth and sealeth unto them their Justification Redemption and Salvation And this R. E. would lay all wast and void and why because many hath pretended to it and hath fallen short therefore all the aforesaid things must be laid aside as uncertain and not to be trusted unto and a certain sort of Men called the Apostles Successors who have sought their gain and worldly Interest and to enlarge their Dominions and to make themselves Lords over Mens faith and over Mens
that confesses that Christ is come in the flesh only in word and because others hath said so and doth not witness sin condemned in the flesh and turned from and to have power over it the same is a false witness and is an Antichrist also and also we have other things to try spirits by we know a proud angry hasty perverse spirit is not the spirit of God a persecuting Lording Spirit is not the spirit of God and again they that teach a contrary Doctrine to the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles they have the spirit of error again they whose practice and conversation is not suitable to the practice and conversations of Christ and the Apostles and Primitive Christians that they are in the spirit of error again they that would force a faith by any humane constitution or law which is repugnant to the Law of God or by force of the sword or any carnal weapons they have the spirit of error for the weapons of the Lamb and his Followers are not carnal weapons but spiritual and yet mighty through God to the beating down of the strong holds of wickedness and to prevail over the Powers of darkness again the Testimony of God in every mans Conscience which is an unerring Testimony this savours the things of God and by this the things that be not of God are discerned and this will put a perfect difference between the spirit of truth and the spirit of error but what can be said to a man in unbelief that hath closed his eyes The next thing which R. E. saith he consider'd was that the Natural reason of every man could not possibly be rule and judge that I sought for for saith he if reason were to be rule and judge then it would follow contrary to Scripture that it is not impossible to please God without faith and it would likewise follow that every Religion would be truth consequently contradictions would be true consequently there would be many Religions and no faith at all for reason excludes faith as in the 26. page of his Book Thy tongue is thy own and thou art at liberty and goes whether thou wilt speaks what seems good in thy own eyes hath never yet known another to gird thee and lead thee whether thou would not I stand not to vindicate every mans Judgment neither to prove other mens conceptions but seeing thou hath taken in hand to lay all Mountains wast afore thee that stands in thy ways thou hast raised up some in thy discourse for others to stumble at and hath spoken many false things without distinguishing and puting a difference between Light and darkness between Natural reason and Spiritual reason I could not chuse but say somewhat Although it is no part of my belief that the Natural reason of any man or every man is able to be rule judge and guide to any man in the things of God yet faith is not in opposition unto pure reason neither is pure and spiritual reason in opposition to true faith but in harmony with it and one with another as they are the gifts of God but the Natural reason of all the fallen sons of Adam is corrupted and is too short and too narrow too cross and too perverse as to be rule and judge in the things of God for the Natural man by all his endowments in the transgression perceives not the things of God for they are spiritually discerned and the things of God that are spiritual and eternal are above the reach of Natural reason and yet thy consequence is false for faith doth not exclude pure reason and faith doth not make blind the understanding but enlightens it and though it is impossible to please God without faith yet it is impossible that that faith should be without reason the Apostle desired to be delivered from unreasonable men that had not faith so it is manifest they that have faith have reason and them that have no faith are unreasonable and where thou hath borrowed this rule I know not that a man must believe that which he doth not understand seeing the Apostle saith to the Romans even of the Gentiles who had not the Law nor the Scriptures that that which may be known of God was manifest in them for by that it is manifest they understood the mind of God and knew him for Paul saith further when they knew God they glorified him not as God but were unthankful c. and again he that believes must know that God is for none can believe in that which is not for to perswade any to believe in uncertainties which is not manifest in the understanding doth rather beget unbelief and doubting then true faith but thy paths are so full of darkness I shall not traduce them and thy consequences is false for pure reason teaches not contradictions neither doth teach that there is no faith at all neither is faith excluded by pure reason as thou ignorantly saith in the 26. page and is it not reason that I should believe in him whom I know is the Creator and Governour of all the World and pure Religion is so far from excluding faith that they that have true faith have reason and stands not in opposition to faith but this I conclude that the reason of fallen men is corrupted and is an uncertain thing to relie upon and so not a competent Judge in matters of so high concernment as touching everlasting Salvation The third thing which thou treats upon is against them who have pleaded that the sole Scriptures are sufficient of themselves to teach true faith from time to time to direct rule and govern us and to be rule and judge and to supply the place of Christ and the Apostles As I said it is not my intention to vindicate other mens quarels which is no part of my faith notwithstanding I should be sorry but that every thing had its true weight and measure and shall not in the least detract from the price value and true worth of the words of truth to wit the Scriptures of truth which were spoken forth by the spirit of truth and by the holy Ghost as it gave utterance but as men erring in their Judgments runs sometimes to the right hand and sometimes to the left hand and walks not in a straight path some men are seting them up above that which they were intended for and placing them in the stead of God Christ and the Spirit and others are too much debasing them and disesteeming them as that they would set up the Judgment of variable and changable men who hold and teach things in contradiction to the Scriptures and repugnant to the mind of the spirit in them that spoke them forth But first of all I say not against thee in this thing that the sole or whole Scriptures are not sufficient of themselves to teach true faith and give the knowledge of God without the spirit for many have got the words and yet
it Where R. E. hath read of a visible Church with two heads I know not and to take it for infallible I intend not and where is Peter called a visible Rock and the chief Pastor among the Apostles doth not this contradict Scripture doth not Christ say the Gentiles exercise Dominion one over another but it shall not be so amongest you he that will be greatest among you let him be your servant and he that will be chief let him be your Minister and as for thy visible and militant Church we read no such words in the Scriptures of truth we read of a Church of God and of the first born whereof Christ was the Rock and the foundation and another foundation can no man lay then that which is laid which is Jesus Christ 1 Cor. 3. 11. and Paul saith in the 10. ver as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation I hope R. E. will not be so impudent as to say he had laid Peter or that he had preached up Peter to believe in for the remission of sins nor for the foundation of faith for that had been contrary to the Apostles commission and their Doctrine for saith the Apostle We have not preached our selves but Christ the Lord and our selves your servants for his sake And I may say to thee R. E. as Paul said to the Corinthians when they were striving about Men 1 Cor. 3. 21. therefore let no man glory in men for all things are yours or as he saith in the 1 chap. 13. ver was Paul crucified for you or were you baptised in the name of Paul were they not carnal that so gloried was Peter crucified for us or were we baptised in the name of Peter is not your visible Church carnal who thus judges that Christ intended Peter to be the foundation of his Church for what was he or the rest of the Apostles but Ministers by which many believed and if thou had been present it is very like would have instructed Christ what to have said and bidden him have spoken after the Grammer Rule and Construction upon that Rock I will build my Church for Peters faith in Christ is to mediate it seems and his confession too remote and anticedent to be the Rock meant in the 16. of Mat. 18. and therefore Peter must be imediate and the Rock upon which Christ hath doth and will build his Church but as imediate as he was and a sure a Rock as he was when he began to rebuke Christ he turned him about ver 23. and said unto Peter Get the behind me Satan thou art an offence unto me for thou savours not the things of God and so say I to R. E. and his Catholicks they savour not the things of God but it is thy private spirit and your own Interpretations and not the mind of Christ and how far anticedent is Peter's Confession of Christ the Son of the Living God is it not in the 16. ver and wherein was Peter blessed but in this that it was revealed to him that Christ was the Son of the Living God the Rock of Ages and the foundation of his Church and as for thy visible Church with its two heads indipendent head and dependent head which sure must have two bodies where they can be found but that I shall leave to R. E. and I hope from the grounds that thou hast here laid which did appear so clear to thee that none will be afraid not judge that such a visible Church with two heads is to be rule and guide to all to whom all is to submit under pain of Damnation which is to have Peter for its Rock which if he had been living he would have denyed you all as seters up of Men and â—leighters of Jesus Christ the Rock of Ages the Foundation of the Church the Head of the Body the Rule of Life the Judge of quick and the dead the Law-giver directer instructer and preserver of his Church for ever but R. E. goes on and saith it only remains that we consider which among all these congregations now on Earth which pretend themselves to be this Church of Christ for having once found her and knowing that she is so assisted with the Holy Ghost that she cannot teach us an error we shall no more dispute the verity of her Doctrines then we would have questioned the Articles of Faith taught by the holy Apostles or the words of Christ himself wherefore if this Church this infallible guide shall teach us that Infants ought to be Baptised and that it is as lawful to desire the Saints departed to pray for us as to desire the Prayers of them that are alive and that the body of Christ our Saviour is really and truly present in the Sacrament of the Alter or any other article of Faith we shall no more doubt it then the first Christians did the verity of what the Apostles taught them Among all those Congregations on Earth that looks upon themselves to be this Church and spouse of Christ there is one if thy eye could behold or if thou could discern it but before thou can there is an eye in thee must be put out and there is a wisdom in thee that must be confounded and turned into foolishness before thou can discern it in its glory as it is but however that is it undoubtedly which is begotten into the faith through the publication of the immortal word of Life who are translated from death unto life who have received the power and spirit of our Lord Jesus Christ and meets in his name and power and doth witness his presence among them and have received a measure of that infallible Spirit of truth which leadeth into all truth and out of the pollutions of the World and are dead unto the World and baptised into the sufferings of Christ and are crucified with him who keep unviolated his Statutes and commands without adding to or diminishing from who walk in the order of the Gospel and are not conformable to the world nor to that which fallen men sets up but to the power of God which worketh in the hearts of all that believe to the framing of them a meet habitation for God to dwel in and abideth in the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles and are sayers and doers speakes the truth and doth the truth and holds the truth in Righteousness and the faith once delivered to the Saints in a pure heart and a pure Conscience who prayes in the spirit and with understanding who publisheth the truth and declares it in the spirit reaching to the Consciences and to the witness of God in all that hears who rejoyce only in Christ Jesus the great power of God and the wisdom of God and hath no confidence in the flesh nor fleshly performances whose faith stands not in words but in the mighty power of God which she hath received according unto the promise of God this Congregation or Congregations