afraid he will not give you another day wherein you may so much as trie your fortune Your Majesty had forgot the monies which came unto you from unknown hands and were brought unto you by unknown faces when you promised you would never forsake your unknown friends you have forgotten the miraculous blessings of the Almighty upon those beginnings and how have you discountenanc'd distrusted dis-regarded I and disgraced the Catholiques all along and at last vowed an extirpation of them Doth not your Majesty see clearly how that in the two great Battailes the North and Naseby God shewed signes of his displeasure when in the first your Enemies were even at your mercy confusion fell upon you and you lost the day like a man that should so wound his Enemies that he could scarce stand and afterwards his owne sword should fly out of the hilt and leave the strong and skilfull to the mercy of his falling Enemies and in the second and I feare me the last Battaile that e're you 'le fight whilst your men were crying victory as I hear they had reason so to do your sword broke in the aire which made you a fugitive to your flying Enemies Sir I pray pardon my boldnesse for it is Gods cause that makes me so bold and no inclination of my owne to be so and give me leave to tell you that God is angry with you and will never be pleased untill you have taken new resolutions concerning your Religion which I pray God direct you or else you 'le fall from nought to worse from thence to nothing King My Lord I cannot so much blame as pitty your zeal the soundnesse of Religion is not to be tried by dint of sword nor must we judge of her truthes by the prosperity of events for then of all men Christians would be most miserable we are not to be thought no followers of Christ by observations drawne from what is crosse or otherwise but by taking up our crosse and following Christ Neither do I remember my Lord that I made any such vow before the Battaile of Naseby concerning Catholiques but some satisfaction I did give my Protestant Subjects who on the other side were perswaded that God blest us the worse for having so many Papists in our Army Marq. The difference is not great I pray God forgive you who have most reason to aske it King I think not so my Lord. Marq. Who shall be judge King I pray my Lord let us sit down and let reason take her seat Marq. Reason is no judge King But she may take her place Marq. Not above our Faith King But in our arguments Marq. I beseech your Majesty to give me a reason why you are so much offended with our Church King Truly my Lord I am much offended with your Church if you meane the Church of Rome if it were for no other reason but this for that she hath foisted into her legend so many ridiculous stories as are able to make as much as in them lies Christianitie it selfe a fable whereas if they had not done this wrong unto the tradition of the primitive Church we then had left unto us such rare and unquestionable verities as would have adorned and not dawb'd the Gospel whereas now we know not what is true or false Marq. Sir if it be allowed to question what the Catholick Church holds out for truth because that which they hold forth unto us seemes ridiculous and to picke and chuse verities according to our owne fancie and reject as novelties and forgeries what we please as impossibilites and fabulous the Scriptures themselves may as well suffer by this kind of tolleration for what more ridiculous then the Dialogue betweene Balaam and his Ass or that Sampsons strength should be in his hair or that he should slay a thousand men with the Jaw-bone of an Ass the Disputation betweene Saint Michael and the Devill about the body of Moses Philip's being taken up in the air and found at Azotus with a thousand the like strange and to our apprehension if we looke upon them with carnall eyes vaine and ridiculous but being they are recorded in Scripture which Scripture we hold for truth we admire but never question them so the fault may not be in the tradition of the Church but in the libertie which men assume to themselves to question the tradition And I beseech Your Majestie to consider the streaks that are drawn over the Divine writ as so many delenda's by such bold hands as those the Testaments were not like the two Tables delivered into the hands of any Moses by the immediate hand of God neither by the Ministration of Angels but men inspired with the holy Ghost writ whose writings by the Church were approved to be by inspiration which inspirations were called Scripture which Scriptures most of them as they are now received into our hands were not received into the Canon of the Church all within three hundred years after Christ why may not some bold spirits call all those Scriptures which were afterwards acknowledged to be Scripture and were not before forgeries Nay have not some such as blind as bold done it already Saint Hierom was the first that ever pickt a hole in the Scriptures and cut out so many books out of the word of God with the penknife of Apocrypha Ruffinus challengeth him for so doing and tells him of the gap that he hath opened for wild beasts to enter into this field of the Church and tread downe all ill corne Jerom gives his reasons because they were not found in the Originall Copie as if the same spirit which gave to those whom it did inspire the diversities of tongues should it selfe be tied to one language but withall he acknowledgeth thus much of those books which he had thus markt in the forehead Canonici sunt ad informandos mores sed non ad confirmandam fidem how poor a Distinction this is and how pernitious a president this was I leave it to Your Majestie to judge for after him Luther takes the like boldness and at once takes away the three Gospels of Mark Luke and John Others take away the epistle to the Hebrews others the epistle of Saint Jude others the second and third epistles of Saint Peter others the epistle of Saint James others the whole book of the Revelation Wherefore to permit what the Church proposes to be questionable by particular men is to bring down the Church the Scriptures and the Heavens upon our heads There was a Church before there was a Scripture which Scripture as to us had not beene the Word of God if the Church had not made it so by teaching us to believe it The preaching of the Gospell was before the writing of the Gospell the Divine Truth that dispersed it selfe over the face of the whole earth before it's Divinitie was comprised within the Canon of the Scripture was like that Primaeva Lux which the world received before the
of witnesses to the divine truth and be no more prejudicicall to their generall determinations then so many exceptions are prejudiciall to a generall rule Neither is a particular defection in any man any exception against his testimony except it be in the thing wherein he is deficient for otherwise we should be of the nature of the flies who onely prey upon corruption leaving all the rest of the body that is whole unregarded Secondly Your Majesty taxes generall Councels for committing errors If Your Majesty would be pleased to search into the times wherein those Councels were called Your Majesty shall find that the Church was then under persecution and how that Arrian Emperours rather made Assemblies of Divines then called any Generall Councels and if we should suppose them to be generall and free Councels yet they could not be erroneous in any particular mans judgement untill a like generall Councell should have concluded the former to be erroneous except you will allow particulars to condemne generalls and private men the whole Church all generall Councels from the first unto the last that ever were or shall be makes but one Church and though in their intervals there be no session of persons yet there is perpetuall virtue in their decretals to which every man ought to appeale for judgement in point of controversie Now as it is a maxim in our law Nullum tempus occurrit regi so it is a maxim in divinity Nullum tempus occurrit deo Ubi deus est as he promised I will be with you alwaies unto the end of the world that is with his Church in directing her chief Officers in all their consultations relating either to the truth of her doctrine or the manner of her discipline wherefore if it should be granted that the Church had at any time determined amisse the Church cannot be said to have erred because you must not take the particular time for the Catholick Church because the Church is as well Catholick for time as territory except that you will make rectification an error For as in civil affairs if that we should take advantage of the Parliaments nulling former acts and thereupon conclude that we will be no more regulated by its lawes we should breed confusion in the Common-wealth for as they alter their laws upon experience of present inconveniences so the Councels change their decrees according to that further knowledge which the holy writ assures us shall encrease in the latter daies provided that this knowledge be improved by means approved of and not by every enthusiastick that shall oppose himselfe against the whole Church If I recall my own words it is no error but an avoidance of error so where the same power rectifies it selfe though some things formerly have been decreed amisse yet that cannot render the decrees of generall Councels not binding or incident to error quoad ad nos though in themselves and pro tempore they may be so As to Your Majesties objecting the errors of the holy Apostles and pen-men of the holy Ghost and Your inference thereupon viz. That truth is no where to be found but in holy Scripture under Your Majesties correction I take this to be the greatest argument against the private spirit urged by your Majesty its leading us into all truth that could possibly be found out For if such men as they indued with the holy Ghost inabled with the power of working miracles so sanctified in their callings and enlightened in their understandings could erre how can any man lesse qualified assume to himselfe a freedome from not erring by the assistance of a private spirit Lastly as to Your Majesties quotations of so many Fathers for the Scriptures easinesse and plainnesse to be understood If the Scriptures themselves doe tell us that they are hard to be understood so that the unlearned and unstable wrest them to their owne destruction 2 Peter 3. 16. and if the Scripture tells us that the Eunuch could not understand them except some man should guide him as Acts 8. 13. and if the Scripture tells us that Christs owne Disciples could not understand them untill Christ himselfe expounds them unto them as Luke 24 25. and if the Scriptures tell us how the Angel wept much because no man was able either in heaven or earth to open the Book sealed with seven seals nor to look upon it as Apoc. 5. 1. then certainly all these sayings of theirs are either to be set to the errata's that are behind their books or else we must look out some other meaning of their words then what Your Majesty hath inferr'd from thence as thus they were easie id est in aliquibus but not in omnibus locis or thus they were easie as to the attainment of particular salvation but not as to the generall cognisance of all the divine mystery therein contained requisite for the Churches understanding and by her alone and her consultations and discusments guided by an extraordinary and promised assistance onely to be found out of which as to every ordinary man this knowledge is not necessary so hereof he is not capable First we hold the reall presence you deny it we say his body is there you say there is nothing but bare bread we have Scripture for it Mat. 20. 26. Take eat this is my body so Luke 22. 19. This is my body which is given for you You say that the bread which we must eat in the Sacrament is but dead bread Christ saith that that bread is living bread you say how can this man give us his flesh to eat we say that that was the objection of Jews and Infidels 1 John 6. 25. not of Christians and believers you say it was spoken figuratively we say it was spoken really re vera or as we translate it indeed John 6. 55. But as the Jews did so doe ye First murmur that Christ should be bread John 6. 41. Secondly that that bread should be flesh Iohn 6. 52. And thirdly that that flesh should be meat indeed John 6. 55. untill at last you cry out with the unbelievers this is a hard saying who can heare it Iohn 6. 60. had this been but a figure certainly Christ would have removed the doubt when he saw them so offended at the reality John 6. 61. He would not have confirmed his saying in terminis with promise of a greater wonder John 6. 62. you may as well deny his incarnation his ascention and ask how could the man come down from heaven and goe up againe if incomprehensibility should be sufficient to occasion such scruples in your breasts and that which is worse then naught you have made our Saviours conclusion an argument against the premises for where our Saviour tels them thus to argue according unto flesh and bloud in these words the flesh profiteth nothing and that if they will be enlivened in their understanding they must have faith to believe it in these words it is the Spirit that quickneth
find but there are those which are equivalent Ez. 20. 30. Are yee polluted after the manner of your Fathers and commit you whoredome after their abominations So the Prophet Zachary cries Be ye not as your Fathers Zach. 1. 4. The like may be seen in other places His Majesty likewise alledgeth our Saviour telling us that we must not so much hearken to what was said by them of old time as to that which he shall tell us Mat. 5. 21. c. not as it is cited 21. 12. pag. 48. It is strange therefore that the Marquesse should say that all the markes of the true Church were waved by His Majesty As for the markes set down by the Marquesse our learned writers have over and over shewed the insufficiency of them so that there is no need now to say much First for Universality it is certaine that error may spread for a while more universally then truth So did Gentilisme for many ages it overspread in a manner the whole World Onely in Iudah was God known Psal 76. 1. Onely the people of the Iewes had Gods saving truth among them all the World besides did lie in grosse ignorance and damnable error Psal 147. 19 20. Ioh. 4. 22. Rom. 3. 1 2. 1 Thess 4. 5. Eph. 2. 11 12. Acts 14. 16. 17. 30. So for a while Arrianisme did beare all the sway in so much that as Hierome observed The World groaned and wondered to see it selfe become an Arrian So also did Pelagianisme as Bradwardine sometimes Archbishop of Canterbury complained As in times past saith he against one true Prophet there were 850 Prophets of Baal and the like to whom an innumerable company of people did adhere So also now in this cause how many O Lord doe with Pelagius fight for Free will against Thy Free-grace The whole World almost is gone into error after Pelagius And againe The whole World almost goeth after him and favoureth his errors whiles all almost thinke that by the strength of Free-will alone they can eschew evill and doe good The Scripture also hath foretold us that all the World should wonder after the beast Revel 13. 3. And that the whore of Babylon whereby that Rome is meant the Scripture is so cleare that even the Romanists themselves are forced to confesse it should sit upon many waters Revel 17. 1. and that by those waters are meant Peoples and Multitudes and Nations and Tongues v. 15. This note therefore viz. Universality is farre from proving the Church of Rome to be the true Church As for the Scriptures which the Marquesse citeth viz. Esay 2. 2. Psal 2. 8. not as it is mis-printed 2. and Mat. 24. not 20 14. these and the like places only shew that in the time of the Gospell the Church should not as before it was be confined to one Nation but should be extended unto all so that Gentiles as well as Jewes as well one Nation as another should have admittance into it the middle wall of partition being now broken down Ephes 2. 14. So that there is neither Greeke nor Iew circumcision nor uncircumcision Barbarian Scythian bond nor free but Christ is all and in all Col. 3. 11. 2. For Antiquity it is true the Prophet Ieremy bids Aske for the old paths where is the good way and walke therein Ier. 6. 16. And so we grant that primary antiquity is a sure note of truth for error being a deviation and swerving from truth it must needs be that truth is more ancient then error But there is a secondary antiquity which is no argument of truth For there is vetustas erroris as Cyprian observed long agoe an antiquity of error The woman of Samaria could say Our Fathers worshipped in this Mountaine yet our Saviour answered her Yee worship yee know not what Ioh. 4. 20. 22. And Symmachus whom His Majesty cited could bring in heathenish Rome thus pleading antiquity Let me use those ceremonies which mine ancestors have used It 's too late and too great an injury to reforme me now I am old This plea I dare say our adversaries themselves will not allow as used by Symmachus and why then should we allow it as they use it Thirdly for Visibility it is granted that ordinarily the Church is visible i. e. that there is a visible company of such as professe the truth though the places cited by the Marquesse doe not evince so much He saith David compares the Church to a Tabernacle in the Sun He meanes Psal 19. 4. where indeed according to the vulgar Latine translation it is He hath set his Tabernacle in the Sun but Genebrard is forced to expound it by an Hypallage thus He hath set the Sun in his Tabernacle that is in the heavens For as he confesseth the Hebrew runs thus He hath set a Tabernacle for the Sun in them Now what is this to the Visibility of the Church or how doth it concerne the Church at all Neither do I see that as the Marquesse alledgeth our Saviour compares the Church to a candle in a candlestick not under a bushell Mat. 5. 15. But either as Iansenius a Romish Writer doth expound it our Saviour there spake of his Apostles who as a candle in a candlestick were to give light unto the dark world by the preaching of the Gospel Or else in generall he shewed the duty of all viz. That in their places and callings they ought to be a means to in-lighten others especially by their good example This sense is agreeable to that which follows immediately ver 16. Let your light so shine forth before men c. So when our Saviour saith Mat. 24. 26. If they shall say unto you Behold he is in the desert go not forth Behold he is in the secret chambers beleeve it not It is nothing to the Churches visibility but onely he foreshews that many should come in his name pretending themselves to be Christ and forewarnes to beware of them These places alledged by the Marquesse are but little to the purpose though as I said it is granted that ordinarily the Church i. e. the company of such as professe the truth is visible Yet neverthelesse we hold that sometimes through persecution and prevalencie of error the Church may be so obscured as to be scarcely visible Thus it was in Elias his time when he complained unto God saying The children of Israel have forsaken thy Covenant throwne downe thine Altars and slaine thy Prophets with the sword and I even I am left and they seeke my life to take it away 1 King 19. 10. And what great visibility was there of the Church when both Priests and People were conspired together against Christ to put him to death and his Disciples also generally forsook him and fled from him So when the heresie of Arrius overspread all so that such as were orthodox and sound in the faith could scarce appear Hilarius who lived in
ascribing so much to the Church when as 't is well known contrary to what the Bishop of Rome and the Church generally did hold he held the re-baptizing of such as had been baptized by Heretikes Though Cyprian in this did erre yet his very erring in this shewes that hee thought the Church the generality of the visible Church not onely subject to error but indeed to have erred The last Father whom the Marquesse here mentioneth for though hee say cum multis aliis yet hee nameth no more is Irenaeus l. 3. c. 4. where he saith It is not meet to seeke the truth among others which it is easie to take of the Church seeing the Apostles did lay in it as in a rich depository all things that concerne truth that every one that will may out of it receive the drinke of life This indeed is gloriously spoken of the Church and not Hyperbolically neither yet doth it not amount to this that the Church cannot erre The holy Scriptures wherein all saving truth is contained are committed to the Church and the Doctine of salvation is ordinarily held forth in and by the Church but hence it doth not follow that the Church that is such as beare sway in it is not subject to error All that Irenaeus saith of the Church is no more if so much as that of the Apostle 1 Tim. 3. 15. that the Church is the pillar and ground of truth which place it may seeme strange that the Marquesse pretermitteth Bellarmine disputing this point brings in those words in the very first place to prove that the Church cannot erre And whereas Calvin answers that the Church is so styled by the Apostle because in it the Scriptures are preserved and preached he replies that thus the Church should rather be compared to a Chest then to a Pillar But this is a frivolous objection for the Church doth not keepe the truth close and secret as a thing is kept in a chest but so as to professe and publish it and therefore is compared to a Pillar to which a thing is fastned and so hangeth that all may see it But that those words of the Apostle do not infer an infallibility of the Church and an exemption from errour is cleare by this that he speakes of a particular visible Church namely the Church of Ephesus now that a particular visible Church may erre our Adversaries will not deny and that very Church of Ephesus there spoken of doth sufficiently demonstrate The Apostle therefore in those words doth rather shew the duty of the Church then the dignity of it rather what it should be then what it alwayes is As when it is said Mal. 2. 7. Labia sacerdotis custodient scientiam The Priests lips shall keep knowledge that is as our translations rightly render it should keepe So the Jesuite Ribera doth expound it shall keepe that is saith he ought to keep The Marquesse here comes againe to the visibility of the Church and some other particulars before handled That the Church is alwayes visible he proves by Mat. 5. 14 15. The light of the World a City upon a Hill cannot be hid But I have shewed before these words Yee are the light of the world to be meant of the Apostles who as their own Iansenius expounds it were a light unto the World by their preaching So also Theophylact They did not enlighten saith hee one Nation but the whole world And the words following A City set upon a Hill cannot be hid he shewes to have been spoken by way of instruction Christ saith hee doth instruct them to be carefull and accurate in the ordering of their life as being to be seene of all As if hee should say Doe not thinke that you shall lie hid in a corner no you shall be conspicuous And therefore see that yee live unblameably that so you may not give offence to others This exposition sutes well with the admonition given vers 16. Let your light so shine forth before men that they seeing your good workes may glorifie your Father which is in Heaven The Marquesse here further addes 2 Cor. 4. 3. Isai 22. I suppose it should be Isai 2. 2. Now the former of these two places is not to the purpose viz. to prove a perpetuall visibility of the Church For how can that be inferred from those words of the Apostle If our Gospell be hid it is hid to them that are lost The Apostle having said vers 2. by manifestation of the truth commending our selves to every mans conscience in the sight of God because as Oecumenius notes it might be objected that the truth was not made manifest unto all for that all did not believe to prevent this Objection the Apostle addes If our Gospell be hid c. As if hee should say It is not our fault as if the Gospell were not plainly enough preached by us but it is their own fault who perish through their owne blindnesse That Isai 2. 2. is more to the purpose though not enough neither It is said that in the last dayes the Mountaine of the Lords House shall be established in the top of the Mountaines and shall be exalted above the Hills and all Nations shall flow unto it The Prophet there sheweth by metaphoricall expressions taken from Mount Sion where the Temple stood that by the preaching of the Gospell the Church should be increased and exalted farre above what it was before This prophesie was fulfilled by the bringing in of the Gentiles but the Prophet doth not say that in the times of the Gospell the Church should alwayes be so conspicuous and visible Neither doe the Fathers here alledged by the Marquesse viz. Origen Chrysostome Austine and Cyprian speake of the perpetuall condition of the Church but onely as it was in their time I have proved before by Scriptures and Fathers and even by the acknowledgement of our Adversaries that the Church is not perpetually visible After the Visibility of the Church the Marquesse speaketh of the Universality of it saying that the universality of the Church is perpetuall and that the Church of Rome is such a Church For proofe hereof hee citeth Psal 2. 8. Rom. 1. 8. Now the former place shewes that Christ should have the heathen for his inheritance and the ends of the Earth for his possession and consequently that the Church should not be confined as it was in the time of the Law to one Country but should be extended farre and wide throughout the World This also hath been fulfilled and yet shall be but hence it doth not follow that the Church is alwayes so universally extended throughout the World but that sometimes errors and heresies doe so prevaile and overspread all that the truth in comparison can finde no roome See before page 2. The other place viz. Rom. 1. 8. testifies indeed that the Church of Rome was a true Church and famous throughout the World but neither doth
authority of the Church as if were it not for the authority of the Church the Scripture were of no force neither could deserve any credit So the Romanists do frequently pervert those words of Austine but Austines meaning was only this that the Churches authority by way of introduction was a means to bring him to beleeve the Gospel by propounding and commending the Gospel unto him as a thing to be beleeved whereas otherwise he should not have given heed to it nor taken notice of it not as if he did finally rest in the authority of the Church and resolve his faith into it No for as I have shewed before he would have the Church it selfe sought in the Scripture and proved by it Had not the woman of Samaria told those among whom she lived of Christ they had not come to the knowledge of him much lesse to beleeve in him yet having heard Christ himselfe they did not rest in the testimony of the woman but said unto her Now we beleeve not because of thy saying for we have heard him our selves and know that this is indeed the Christ and the Saviour of the world Joh. 4. 42. So should not the Church hold out unto us the Scriptures we should not know much lesse beleeve them but at length God by his Spirit opening our understandings that we may understand the Scriptures Luke 24. 45. we come to be convinced by the Scriptures themselves that they are the Oracles of God and of divine authority Melchior Canus a learned Writer of the Church of Rome holds that the formall reason of our faith is not the authority of the Church that is that the last resolution of our faith is not into the Churches testimony And he saith that he could not dissemble their errour who hold that our faith is to be reduced thither as to the utmost cause of beleeving For the confuting of this errour he saith belongs that Ioh. 4. Now we beleeve not because of thy saying for we our selves have heard him and know c. The same authour averres that the authority of the Church is not a reason by it selfe moving to beleeve but only a cause or meanes without which we should not beleeve viz. Because as he addes the Church doth propound unto us that the Scripture is the word of God and except the Church did so propound it we should never ordinarily come to beleeve it yet we doe not therefore beleeve the Scripture to be Gods word because the Church doth say it but because God doth reveal it If the Church saith he doth make way for us to know such sacred books we must not therefore rest there but we must goe further and must relye on Gods solid truth And then he brings in that very speech of Austine and shewes what he meant by it Hereby is understood saith he what Austine meant when he said I should not beleeve the Gospell except the authority of the Church did move me And again By the Catholikes I had beleeved the Gospell For Austine had to doe with the Manichees who without dispute would have a certain Gospell of theirs beleeved and so would establish the faith of the Manichees Austine therefore askes them what they would doe if they did light upon a man who did not beleeve so much as the Gospell what kind of perswasion they would use to bring him to their opinion He affirmes that himselfe could not be otherwise brought to embrace the Gospell but that the authority of the Church did overcome him He doth not therefore teach that the faith of the Gospell is grounded upon the Churches authority but only that there is no certain way whereby either infidels or novices in the faith may have entrance to the holy books but one and the same consent of the Catholike Church This he himselfe hath sufficiently explicated in the fourth Chapter of that Epistle and in his book to Honoratus concerning the benefit of beleeving I have thus largely cited the words of this learned Romanist because no Protestant can speak more clearly and more fully to the purpose That which the Marquesse after addeth is nothing against us viz. That there was a Church before there was any Scripture that though the Scripture be a light yet we have need of some to guide us though it be the food of our soules yet there must be some to administer it unto us though it be an antidote against the infection of the devill yet it is not for every one to be a compounder of the ingredients that though it be the onely sword and buckler to defend the Church from her Ghostly enemies yet this doth not exclude the noble army of Martyrs and the holy Church which through all the world doth acknowledg Christ All this I say is nothing at all against us who do so assert the authority of the Scripture as that we doe not evacuate the Churches ministery Timothy must preach but it is the word viz. of God contained in the Scriptures which he must preach 2 Tim. 4. 2. If any man speak for the instructing of others he must speak as the Oracles of God 1 Pet. 4. 11. He must confirm that which he doth speak by the Scriptures And so on the other side they that hear must take heed how and what they hear Luke 8. 18. Mark 4. 24. They must not beleeve every Spirit but must try the Spirits whether they be of God 1 John 4. 1. They must to the Law and to the Testimony for that if any speak not according to this word it is because they have no light in them Isai 8. 20. They must search the Scriptures diligently to see whether the things delivered unto them be so or no. Acts 17. 11. OF THE CHVRCH of ENGLAND THE SECOND PART OF THE Rejoynder to the Marquess of WORCESTER'S Reply MAJESTIE' 's Answer to the said Marquesse's Plea for the ROMISH RELIGION THE Marquesse saith that he will now consider the Opinions of Protestants apart from them of the Church of Rome and begin with the Church of England The Religion of this Church he saith as it is in opposition to theirs consists wholly in denying for that what she affirms they affirm the same as the Real presence the Infallibility Visibility Universality and Unity of the Church Confession and Remission of sinnes Free-will Possibility of keeping the Commandments c. And you may as well saith he deny the blessed Trinity for we have no such word in Scripture only inference as that which you have already denied for which we have plain Scripture c. But 1. it is not altogether so that what the Church of England doth affirm the same they of the Church of Rome do affirm also For the Church of England Art 9. doth affirm alleadging the authority of the Apostle for proof thereof that Concupiscence hath of it self the nature of sinne even in the regenerate which the Romanists deny the Councel of Trent accurseth
woman should be joyned together The Son of God doth draw us back to the first institution c. 3. He is said to teach peremptory resistance against Magistrates and to inable the inferiour Magistrate to alter Religion against the contrary Edicts of the Superiour For the latter part of this charge the Marquesse citeth Concil Theol. which book I finde not as I said amongst Melancthons Works For the former part he citeth Melancthon on Rom. 13. but in that place there is not a syllable that I can see whereby it may appear that Melancthon teacheth any resistance against the Magistrate All that I finde is that he teacheth Magistracie to be of God and answereth the arguments of the Anabaptists against it Here the Marquesse addes So Calvin so Beza so Goodman so Danaeus so Knox c. all hold it lawfull to depose murther or to arraign their Prince c. But where these Authours either all or any of them do hold thus he sheweth not he doth not so much as point at any of their writings where such doctrine may be found I know that some of these Authours here mentioned are charged in this kinde by Romish Writers but withall I know that the charges brought against them are answered See Rivet Jes Vap. cap. 13. § 9. 10 11. Bils of Christ subject Page 509. c. The former of these answers to what is alleadged against Calvin the latter to what is alleadged both against him and against Beza Goodman and Knox. But some of the Authours whom the Marquesse here citeth as being of this opinion concerning Magistrates he was much mistaken in viz. Bancroft who did declare himself so much the other way that he taxed some of these here mentioned by the Marquesse as being not respective enough of the honour due to Magistrates His book I have read though now I have it not nor do I perfectly remember the title of it I think also that there is the like mistake concerning Sutcliffe whom the Marquesse also joyneth with the 1 â—st I thinke that he also was so farre from teaching such doctrine that he did rather taxe those who did but seem to teach it But I am not so well assured of him as of the other After Melancthon the Marquesse speaketh of Andraeas Musculus who he saith was not afraid openly to teach that the Divine nature of Christ died upon the Crosse with his humane nature Wolfangus Musculus is an Author well known but Andraeas Musculus I confesse I have not heard of before so farre am I from being able to say what he holdeth but if he hold as the Marquesse here alleadgeth I shall be as ready to explode and abhor his opinion as any other In the next place the Marquesse speaketh of the divisions of Protestants which I confesse have been and are too great though divers of the Sects which he mentioneth I do not know that ever I read of before But what if Protestants differ among themselves and so must needs some of them be in error Yet may they for all this be in the truth so far forth as they all agree and consequently so far forth as they dissent from the Church of Rome There were many Sects among the Jews as Pharisees Sadduces and Herodians spoken of in Scripture and the Essenes mentioned by Josephus These differing one from another must certainly some of them erre yet as they agreed together in opposing Paganisme they were all right Whilst the Catholicks saith the Marquesse have no jars no differences uncomposed having one common Father one Conductor and Adviser as Sir Edw. Sands confesseth The Authours book which the Marquesse citeth I have but not so distinguished as that which he referreth unto and therefore I cannot finde the words which he alleadgeth But seeing mention is made of this book I think it meet here to insert some things out of it that so the Reader may perceive what manner of unity and agreement it is that is amongst them of the Church of Rome But now saith that worthy Authour to come to the view of their Ecclesiastical government not so much as it is reserred to the conduct of soules though that be the natural and proper end of that regiment but rather as it is addressed to the upholding of the worldly power and glory of their order to the advancing of their part and overthrow of their opposites which I suppose be the points they now chiefly respect I think I may truly say there was never yet State framed by mans wit in this world more powerful and forcible to work those effects never any either more wisely contrived and plotted or more constantly and diligently put in practice and execution insomuch that but for the natural weaknesse and untruth and dishonesty which being rotten at the heart abate the force of whatsoever is founded thereon their outward means were sufficient to subdue a whole world In their art they have certain head-assertions which as indemonstrable principles they urge all to receive and hold As That they are the Church of God within which great facility and without which no possibility of salvation That divine Prerogative gramed to them above all other Societies in the world doth preserve them everlastingly from erring in matter of faith and from falling from God That the Pope Christs deputy hath the keyes of heaven in his custody c. In these 〈◊〉 no doubt or question is tolerable and who so joyn with them in these shall finde great connivence in what other defect or difference soever c. And by this plot they have erected in the world a Monarchy more potent then ever any that hath been before it c. And afterward To what a miserable push saith he have they driven the world either in their pleading against them with such force of evidence or in their learning of them and joyning with them as to stop the month of the one and hang the faith of the other on this 〈◊〉 paradox I and my Church cannot possibly erre and this must you take upon our own words to be true For as for their conjectural evidence out of the Scripture there seems to be as much or more for the King of Spains not erring as there is for the Popes it being said by the wisest that the heart of the King is in the hands of God a divine sentence is in his lips and his mouth shall not transgresse in judgement And a little after Although it were perhaps not untruly said by a great Clerk of their own that the Popes not erring was but an opinion of policy and not of Theologie to give stay to the Laity not stop to the Divines of whom in such infinite controversies and jarrings NB about interpretations of Texts and conclusions of Science wherein many have spent a large part of their lives never any yet went neither at this day doth go to be resolved
Succession In the Cities of Judah and Jerusalem There is Universalitie so Demetrius urged Antiquity and Universality for his godde 〈…〉 viz. That her Temple should not be despised 〈…〉 Magnificence destroyed whom all Asia and the world worshipped So Symachus that wise Senator though a bitter enemie to the Christians Servanda est inquit tot seculis fides sequendi sunt nobis parentes qui feliciter sequuti sunt suos we must defend that Religion which hath worne out so many ages and follow our Fathers steps who have so happily followed theirs So Prudentius would have put back Christianity it selfe viz. Nunc dogma nobis Christianum nascitur post evolutos mille demum Consules Now the Christian Doctrine begins to spring up after the revolution of a thousand Consul-ships But Ezekiel reads us another lecture Ne obdurate cervices vestras ut patres vestri cedite manum Iehovae ingredimini sanctuarium ejus quod sanctificavit in seculum colite Iehovam Deum vestrum Be not stiff-necked as your fore fathers were resist not the mighty God enter into his Sactuary which he hath consecrated for ever and worship ye the Lord your God Radbodus King of Phrygia being about to be baptized asked the Bishop what was become of all his ancestors who were dead without being baptized The Bishop answered that they were all in hell whereupon the King suddenly withdrew himselfe from the font saying Ibi profecto me illis Comitem adjungam Thither will I go unto them no lesse wise are they who had rather erre with fathers and Councels then rectifie their understanding by the word of God and square their faith according to its rules Our Saviour Christ saith we must not so much hearken to what has been said by them of old time Mat. 21. 12. as to that which he shall tell you where Auditis dictum esse antiquis is exploded and Ego dico vobis is come in its place which of them all can attribute that credit to be given unto him as is to be given to Saint Paul Yet he would not have us to be followers of him more then he is a follower of Christ 1 Cor. 11. 1. Wherefore if you cry never so loud Sancta mater Ecclesia sancta mater Ecclesia the holy mother Church holy mother Church as of old they had nothing to say for themselves but Templum Domini Templum Domini the Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord we will cry as loud againe with the Prophet Quomodo facta est meretrix Urbs fidelis how is the faith full City become a harlot if you vaunt never so much of your Roman Catholick Church we can tell you out of Saint John that she is become the Synagogue of Sathan neither is it impossible but that the house of prayers may be made a Den of theeves you call us hereticks we answer you with Saint Paul Act. 24. 14. After the way which you call heresie so worship we the God of our fathers believing all things which were written in the Law and the Prophets I will grant you that all those marks which you have set downe are marks of the true Church and I will grant you more that they were belonging to the Church of Rome but then you must grant me thus much that they are as well belonging to any other Chucch who hold and maintaine that Doctrine which the Church of Rome then maintained when she wrought those conversions and not at all to her if she have changed her first love and fallen from her old principles for it will do her no good to keep possession of the keyes when the lock is changed now to try whether she hath done so or no there can be no better way then by searching the Scriptures for though I grant you that the Catholick Church is the White in that Butt of earth at which we all must aime yet the Scripture is the heart centre or peg in the midst of that white that holds it up from whence we must measure especially when we are all in the white We are all of us in gremio Ecclesiae so that controversies cannot be decided by the Catholick Church but by the Scriptures which is the thing by which the nearenesse unto truth must be decided for that which must determine truth must not be fallible but whether you mean the consent of Fathers or the decrees of generall Counsels they both have erred I discover no Fathers nakednesse but deplore their infirmities that we should not trust in armes of flesh Tertullian was a montanist Cyprian a rebaptist Origen an Anthropomorphist Heirom a Monoganist Nazianzen an Angelist Eusebius an Arrian Saint Augustine had written so many errors as occasioned the writing of a whole booke of retractations they have often times contradicted one another and sometimes themselves Now for generall Counsels Did not that Concilium Ariminense conclude for the Arrian heresie Did not that Concilium Ephesinum conclude for the Eutichian heresie Did not that Concilium Carthaginense conclude it not lawfull for Priests to marry Was not Athanasius condemned In concilio Tyrioi Was not Eiconolatria established In concilio Nicaeno secundo What should I say more when the Apostles themselves lesse obnoxious to error either in life or doctrine more to be preferred then any or all the world besides one of them betraies his Saviour another denies him all forsake him They thought Christs Kingdome to have been of this world and a promise onely unto the Jewes and not unto the Gentiles and this after the resurrection They wondered that the holy Ghost should fall upon the Gentiles Saint John twice worshipped the Angel and was rebuked for it Apoc. 22. 8. Saint Paul saw how Peter walked not uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel Gal. 2. 14. Not onely Peter but other of the Apostles were ignorant how the word of God was to be preached unto the Gentiles But who then shall rowl away the stone from the mouth of the monument Who shall expound the Scriptures to us one puls one way and another another by whom shall we be directed Scinditur incertum studia in contraria vulgus You that cry up the Fathers the Fathers so much shall hear how the Fathers doe tell us that the Scriptures are their owne interpreters Irenaeus who was scholler to Policarpus that was schollar to Saint Iohn lib. 3. cap. 12. thus saith Ostentiones quae sunt in Scriptur is non possunt ostendi nisi ex ipsis Scriptur is the evidences which are in Scripture cannot be manifested but out of the same Scripture Clemens Alexandrinus Nos ex ipsis de ipsis Scriptur is perfectè demonstrantes ex fide persuademus demonstrative Strom. li. 7. Out of the Scriptures themselves from the same Scriptures perfectly demonstrating doe we draw demonstrative perswasions from faith Crysost Sacra Scriptura seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Basilius Magnus Quae ambiguè quae obscurè videntur
errour in one thing he is so in another thing and therefore his bare testimony except it have something to support it is not sufficient to rely upon The testimony of the Lord is sure saith David Psal 19. 7. because he can neither deceive nor be deceived But man may and therefore his testimony as his is not sure No Let God be true and every man a lyar saith the Apostle Rom. 3. 4. 2. For a generall Councell why it should necessarily be exempt from Errour I see nothing here alledged by the Marquesse except it be that Acts 15. 28. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us But the inference made from that Councell wherein the Apostles themselves did sit and give sentence to prove that no generall Councell can Erre is no better than if one should argue that a particular Father or Doctor is infallible because a particular Apostle was so in that which he either wrote or preached For we must take heed of entertaining such a thought although the Marquesses words do seem to imply so much as that each particular Apostle might fall into Errour though all of them together could not For how then should we be able to build our faith upon those Scriptures which were composed by particular Apostles and not by a whole Councell of them It 's true as his Majesty observed pag. 50. the Apostles were ignorant and erronious in some things but not in any thing that they delivered unto People to believe and obey either by word or writing for then as I said we could have no certainty of the Scriptures we could not be built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets as Believers are Ephes 2. 20. But that generall Councells may erre Austin made no question Who knowes not saith he that Provinciall and Nationall Councells doe yeild to the authority of Generall Councells and that Generall Councells are often amended the former by the latter that being after found out which before lay hid It is well known that the Romanists reject the authority of the Councels of Constance and Basil two Generall Councels when they determine the Pope to be inferiour and subject to a Generall Councell Indeed generally the Pontificians make little account of a Councel though otherwise never so generall except it be confirmed by the Pope Bellarmine makes it a clear case and without all difficulty that Generall Councells may Erre if the Fathers of the Councell define any thing when as the Legates of the Pope dissent from them or if the Legates themselves do consent but so as to go against the instructions which the Pope gave them And he further holds that in case the Legates had no certain instructions from the Pope the Councell may Erre and that before the Popes Confirmation of it the judgment of a Generall Councell is not infallible The Marquesse himself pag. 55. c. doth seeme to assent unto His Majesty taxing Generall Councells for committing Errours but some passages he hath which to me seeme very strange If saith he we should suppose them to be Generall and free Councels yet they could not be Erronious in any particular mans judgement untill a like Generall Councell should have concluded the former to be Erronious By this Assertion Arrianisme being confirmed by the Councell of Ariminum Athanasius and every particular man should have assented to it untill another Generall Councell had determined against it but this is such a position as I dare say our Romish adversaries themselves will not allow Again If it should be granted saith the Marquesse that the Church had at any time determined amisse the Church cannot be said to have erred because you must not take the particular time for the Catholike Church because the Church is as well Catholike for time as territory except you will make rectification an errour But when our adversaries of Rome speak of the Churches freedome from errour they understand it of the Church representative a generall Councel It is one and the same thing saith Bellarmine that the Church cannot erre in determining matters of faith and that Bishops cannot erre But severally they may erre therefore being gathered together they shall be free from errour So then if a Generall Councell may erre at any one time it is sufficient to overthrow their Tenet that the Church cannot erre That the Church represented in a Generall Councell may after rectifie what before was amisse and that also by the determination of a Generall Councell is so farre from proving that the Church as they take it cannot Erre that on the contrary it proves that it may Erre For though rectification be not errour yet it doth presuppose Errour Again If I recall mine own words saith the Marquesse it is no Errour but an avoidance of Errour So where the same power Rectifies it self though some things formerly have been Decreed amisse yet that cannot render the Decrees of Generall Councels not binding or incident to Errour quoad nos though in themselves pro tempore they may be so I answer it is without all doubt that for one to recall his words being Erronious is no Errour but a correcting of Errour yet this doth clearly shew a man to be subject to Errour And so if the Church at one time in a Generall Councell may Rectifie what at another time in a Generall Councell it had Decreed amisse it evidently appears that the Church in a Generall Councell may Erre For otherwise what need of Rectification were there if there had been no Errour And certainly if the Decrees of Generall Councells be Erronious as the Marquesse denies not but they may be they are not binding Quoad nos we are not bound to assent unto them but rather to dissent from them For we are not bound to embrace Errour but to embrace Truth Prove all things hold fast that which is good saith the Apostle 1 Thes 5. 21. By the Marquesses reason the Decree of the Councell of Ariminum confirming the Heresie of Arrius should for the time have been binding so that neither Athanasius nor any other should have presumed to oppose it or to dissent from it untill another Generall Councell had declared against it As to your Majesties objecting the Errours of the Holy Apostles and Pen-men of the Holy Ghost and your inference thereupon viz. that Truth is no where to be found but in holy Scripture under your Majesties correction I take this to be the greatest argument against the private Spirit urged by your Majesty its leading us into all Truth that could possibly be found out For if such men as they indued with the Holy Ghost innobled with the power of working Miracles so sanctified in their callings and inlightned in their understandings could Erre how can any man lesse qualified assume to himselfe a freedome from Erring by the assistance of a private Spirit 1. His Majesty was farre from thinking that the Apostles as Pen-men of the
can be separated from the Church And againe Let none thinke that the good can depart out of the Church The winde doth not carry away the wheat neither doth the storme overthrow the Tree that hath taken solid roote The empty chaffe is tossed with the tempest the weake Trees are throwne down with the whirlewinde This the Apostle John doth curse and smite saying They went out from us but they were not of us for if they had been of us they would no doubt have continued with us but they went out that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us 1 Joh. 2. 19. And to adde one testimony of his more Peter saith hee speaking for all and answering in the name of the Church saith Lord to whom shall we goe Thou hast the words of eternall life Joh. 6. 68. signifying that they who depart from Christ perish through their own fault but that the Church which believeth in Christ and once holdeth that which it hath knowne doth never altogether depart from him and that they are the Church who doe abide in the house of God but that they are not the planting of God the Father whom wee see not to be strengthened with the stability of wheat but to be blowne away with the breath of the enemy like chaffe that is to be dissipated Of whom John saith They went out from us but they were not of us c. Austine also citing those words of S. Iohn saith Hee doth not say that by going out they were made Aliens but that therefore they went out because they were Aliens Againe In that saith he thou departest and fliest away thou shewest thy selfe to be chaffe they that are wheate endure threshing And upon those words of our Saviour If yee continue in my word then you are my Disciples indeed Joh. 8. 31. hee saith thus Then they are indeed that which they are called if they continue in that for which they are so called So againe That is not indeed the Body of Christ saith hee which shall not be with him for ever So Tertullian saith that such as fall away were never true Believers and true Christians Hee saith man sees the outside of every one and thinkes what hee sees but God sees into the heart and therefore knowes who are his and roots out every Plant that hee hath not planted And let the chaffe of light faith saith hee flie away as much as it will with every blast of temptations by so much will the heape of Corne be the more cleane to be laid up in the Lords Garners Did not some of Christs Disciples being offended turne away yet the rest would not therefore leave him but they that knew him to be the word of life and sent of God did continue with him to the end It is a lesse matter if some did forsake his Apostle as Phygellus and Hermogenes and Philetus and Hymenaeus Then hee cites that of S. Iohn They went out from us but they were not of us c. Thus also Gregory speaking of the holy Ghost saith that in respect of some vertues he alwayes abides in the hearts of the Saints but in respect of some hee comes so as to goe away and goes away so as to come againe For in respect of Faith Hope and Charity and other good things without which there is no comming to Heaven as Humility Chastity Iustice and Mercy in respect of these hee never forsaketh the hearts of the upright But in respect of Prophecy Eloquence and working of miracles sometimes hee is with the Elect sometimes hee withdrawes himselfe from them This testimony of Gregory is also cited by Gratian who from thence and other testimonies of the Fathers inferrs thus much that Charity once had and it is as true of Faith for Charity cannot be without it but doth proceede from it 1 Tim. 1. 5. cannot be lost Thus wee have not onely the Scriptures and Fathers but also the Canon-law it selfe for us Those places which the Marquesse alledgeth to prove that faith may be lost doe not speake of justifying Faith whereby one is ingraffed into Christ and made a member of his Body but either of an outward profession of the Faith that is of the Doctrine of Faith as that 1 Tim. 1. 19. where the Apostle bids Timothy hold faith i. e. the Doctrine of Faith and a good conscience and addes that some having put away a good conscience concerning Faith did make shipwrack that is did forsake the Doctrine of Faith and fall into Heresie Such were Hymenaeus and Alexander whom hee mentioneth vers 20. and saith that he delivered them unto Satan that they might learne not to blaspheme And that which hee there calleth Faith hee calleth Truth 2 Tim. 2. 18. where speaking of Hymenaeus and Philetus hee saith who concerning the truth have erred saying that the Resurrection is past already He addes that hereby they did overthrow the Faith of some that is they did draw them from the Faith making them to embrace Heresie But that these seducers or seduced ones were ever such believers as that they were indued with justifying Faith the Apostle doth not say neither can it be proved Tertullian was of another minde as appeares by his words before cited Yea so was S. Iohn whose words to this purpose both Tertullian and other Fathers as I have shewed have made use of when hee saith speaking of such as those They went out from us but they were not of us c. 1 Joh. 2. 19. Or they speak of an Historicall Faith whereby one doth assent unto the truth of the Gospell and is somewhat affected with it but it doth not take roote in the heart as it is said Mat. 13. 21. yet hath hee not roote in himselfe and therefore this is not such a Faith as wee speake of when wee say that Faith cannot be lost viz. a Faith whereby Christ is received and doth dwell in the heart Ioh. 1. 12. Ephes 3. 17. For all that Faith which is spoken of Luke 8. 13. a man is but chaffe still and not true wheat whatsoever hee seeme either to himselfe or others They compared to the thorny ground who for a while believe are distinguished from such as have a good and honest heart Luke 8. 13. 15. Therefore those temporary believers are no sound and sincere Believers their heart is not right with God and therefore they are not stedfast in his Covenant Psal 78. 37. The Marquesse addes This is frequently affirmed by the Fathers viz. that Faith may be lost but hee cites onely Austine de grat lib. arb de corrept grat ad articulos Now I have produced many testimonies of Austine to the contrary as also of diverse other Fathers who speake very home to our purpose As for these places of Austine alledged against us the two first are justly to be waved For onely the bookes are cited but no Chapters whereas in the
hee takes Aquinas to be resolute in this point and hee cites him saying As predestination doth include a will to conferre grace and glory so Reprobation doth include a will to suffer one to fall into sinne and to inslict the punishment of damnation for sinne Hence Alvarez inferres that according to Aquinas the permission of the first sinne for which a Reprobate is damned is the effect of Reprobation And hee addes that of this permission there is no cause in the Reprobate Because before the permission of the first sinne and before the first sinne there is no other sinne for if there were then it were not simply the first sinne or man should commit some other sinne before which God did not permit whereas no sinne can be committed but by Gods permission He cites also Aquinas againe speaking thus why God doth chuse some to glory and reprobate others there is no reason but onely Gods Will. And having cited that of the Apostle Rom. 9. The children being not yet borne neither having done any good or evill that the purpose of God according to election might stand not of workes but of him that calleth it was said unto her The elder should serve the younger As it is written Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated having cited this I say hee addes that the Apostle here both Austine and Aquinas avouching as much plainly signifies that in the absolute Election and Reprobation of Men God did not looke at Mens merits or demerits but of his own pleasure did chuse and predestinate one to glory and not predestinate another but by an absolute will did determine to suffer him to sinne and to be hardened or to persevere in sinne to the end of his life and to inflict eternall punishment upon him for sin Hee brings in also Austine confuting those who say that Esau and Iacob being not yet borne God did therefore hate the one and love the other because hee did foresee the workes that they would doe Who said Austine can but wonder that the Apostle should not finde out this acute reason for hee did not see it c. No but flies to this hee saith to Moses I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy c. So then it is not of him that willeth nor of him that runneth but of God that sheweth mercy And that none of our Romish adversaries may sleight Austine in this point Alvarez about the beginning of his Worke hath a Disputation to shew what authority this Fathers judgement is of in the point of Grace and Predestination Hee shewes that not onely Prosper but also many Bishops of Rome did approve of Austines Doctrine concerning these points and did determine it to be sound and good And therefore in the testimony of Austine wee have many testimonies and such as are irrefragable with those with whom now wee have to doe But let us heare what some other late Writers of the Church of Rome doe say as to this point concerning Reprobation God from eternity saith Cardinall Cajetan doth truly chuse some and reprobate others doth love some and hate others in that from eternity his will is to vouchsafe some the helpe of his grace whereby to bring them to eternall glory and from eternity also his will is to leave some to themselves and not to afford them that gracious help which he hath decreed to afford the Elect. And this is for God to hate and to reprobate them with which yet it doth well stand that none is damned but by his owne workes because neither the Sentence nor Execution of damnation is before that such Reprobates doe sinne So also †Estius saith that the Apostle Rom. 9. doth teach that neither mens Election nor their Reprobation is from the Merits of workes but that God by the meere pleasure of his wil doth chuse some and Reprobate others And againe upon those words O man who are thou that repliest against God c. hee saith that the Apostles intent was to answer not so much the objection as the cause of objecting And that therefore he answers concerning the Will of God Electing and Reprobating and denies that the reason of it is to be inquired by man who is Gods creature and made by him yea that by the example of a potter the Apostle shewes that God doth this out of the liberty of his Will without any other reason And he addes that Thomas Aquinas did also thus rightly expound the words of the Apostle Bradwardine who intituled the book which hee wrote of the cause of God is not to be omitted Hee saith It 's true God doth not eternally punish any without his fault going before temporally and abiding eternally yet God did not eternally reprobate any because of sinne as a cause antecedently moving Gods will What doe our Divines say even such as are of the more rigid sort as concerning this high and abstruse point of Reprobation what I say doe they lay more then is said by these great and eminent Doctours of the Church of Rome and before them by Austine and before both him and them as both hee and they conceived by the Apostle Paul himselfe The Decree of Reprobation saith Bishop Davenant is not thus to be conceived I will damne Judas whether he believe or not believe repent or not repent for this were contrary to the truth of the Evangelicall promises but thus I am absolutely determined not to give unto Judas that speciall grace which would cause him to believe and repent and I am absolutely purposed to permit him to incurre his own demnation by his voluntary obstinacy and finall impenitency And againe It must here first of all be considered that Reprobatio aeterna nihil ponit in reprobato that is That eternall reprobation doth put nothing in the person that is reprobated It putteth onely in God a firme Decree of permitting such persons to fall into finall sinne and for it a firme decree of condemning them unto eternall punishment So both hee and diverse other of our Eng. lish Divines that were at the Synod of Dort being sent thither by King Iames as they hold that Reprobation which is the denying of election doth put in God an immutable will not to have mercy on such a person as is passed by in respect of giving eternall life And that foreseene unbeliefe is not the cause of non election So withall they lay down this position God doth damne none nor appoint unto Damnation but in respect of sinne So Doctor Ames saith that it is too great a slander to say that according to our opinion God did immediately decree mens damnation whether they be sinners or no. Our opinion saith hee is this that God did not choose some as he did chuse others but did determine to let them abide in their sinnes and for those sinnes to suffer the punishment of just damnation and that of this decree
of God an house not made with hands eternall in the Heavens And v. 6 7 8. Therefore we are alwayes confident knowing that whiles we are here in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walke by faith and not by sight We are confident I say and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. And that Phil. 1. 21. To me to live is Christ and to die is gaine And that 2 Tim. 4. 18. The Lord shall deliver me from every evill work and will preserve me to his Heavenly Kingdom And in the same Chapter v. 6 7 8. I am now ready to be offered and my departure is at hand I have fought a good fight I have finished my course I have kept the faith henceforth is laid up for me the crown of righteousnesse c. So also S. Peter Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Iesus Christ who according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us againe unto a lively hope through the Resurrection of Iesus Christ from the dead unto an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that fadeth not away reserved in Heaven for us 1 Pet. 1. 3 4. This hope which believers have or may have of salvation is a lively hope it is a hope that maketh not ashamed Rom. 5. 5. because they are sure to obtaine that which they hope for and shall not be disappointed of it Hence it is also that believers rejoyce with joy unspeakable and full of glory 1 Pet. 1. 8. because they know they shall receive the end of their faith even the salvation of their soules v. 9. Wee have also Fathers to testifie this truth There flourisheth with us saith Cyprian the strength of hope and the firmness of faith and amongst the very ruines of the decaying world the minde is raised up and virtue is unmoveable and patience is ever joyfull and the soule is alwayes secure and confident of her God And immediatly hee confirmes this by that of the Prophet Habakkuk Although the fig-three shall not blossome c. yet I will rejoyce in the Lord I will joy in the God of my salvation Hab. 3. 17 18. So againe the same Father what place is there here for anxiety and carefulnesse who in the midst of these things can be fearfull and sad except he want hope and faith It is for him to fear death that would not go unto Christ it is for him to be unwilling to go to Christ that doth not believe that he doth begin to reigne with Christ For it is written The just shall live by faith If thou beest just and doest live by faith if thou doest truly believe in God seeing thou shalt be with Christ and art sure of Gods promise why doest thou not embrace this that thou art called unto Christ and art glad that thou art freed from the Devill God doth promise immortality and eternity to those that depart out of this life and thou doubtest this is not at all to know God this is to offend Christ the Lord and Master of Believers with the sinne of unbeliefe this is to be in the Church the house of faith and yet to have no faith Here we see how earnest Cyprian is to prove that Christians may yea ought to be confident against the feare of death and that because they may and ought to be assured of the life to come Thus also Austine I believe saith hee him that promiseth The Saviour speaketh the truth promiseth he hath said unto me He that heareth my words and believeth him that sent me hath eternall life and is passed from death to life and shall not come into condemnation I have heard the words of my Lord I have believed Now whereas I was an unbeliever I am made a Believer as he hath said I am passed from death to life I come not into condemnation not by my presumption but by his promise To this purposes also Bernard The Sun of Righteousnesse arising saith hee the mystery concerning the predestinate and those that shall be made blessed which was so long hid beginnes after a sort to come up out of the depth of eternity whiles every one being called by feare and justified by love that is by Faith working through love as hee said a little before doth assure himselfe that he is of the number of the blessed Knowing that whom he hath justified them he hath also glorified For why Hee heares that he is called when he is moved with feare he perceives that he is justified when he is filled with love and shall he doubt of his being glorified And againe Thou hast O man saith hee the justifying spirit a revealer of this secret and so testifying unto thy spirit that thou also art the Son of God Acknowledge the counsell of God in thy justification For thy present justification is both a revelation of Gods Counsell and also a certaine preparation unto future glory Or truly predestination it selfe is rather a preparation and justification is rather an appropinquation unto it And againe Who is righteous but he that doth requite Gods love with love againe which is not done but when the spirit by Faith doth reveale unto a man Gods eternall purpose concerning his future salvation Which revelation surely is no other thing but the infusion of spirituall grace by which the deeds of the flesh are mortified and so a man is prepared for that Kingdome which flesh and blood do not possesse receiving together by one spirit both this that he is assured that he is loved and also this that hee doth love againe that so he may not be ungratefull to him of whom he is loved Thus both Scriptures and Fathers testifie that Christians may be assured of their salvation And that this assurance may be had may be proved also by all that hath beene said before concerning the stability of Faith once had and the certainty of persevering in the estate of grace if a man be once in it For hence it followeth that if a man can be assured that hee is in the estate of Grace hee may also be assured of his salvation Now that he may be assured of his being in the state of grace some of the Romish Church and that since Luthers time have maintained as namely Catharinus and the Author of the Booke called Enchiridium Coloniense both which are mentioned in this respect by Bellarmine And because the Councell of Trent Sess 6. c. 9. doth seeme to determine the contrary therefore Eisingrenius hath written a whole booke to shew that the determination of the Councell is not indeed against this that a man may be assured that he hath true grace in him The booke I have seene and read many yeeres agoe though now I have it not And I remember he holds that a man may be as sure that hee hath true grace and that his sinnes are forgiven as hee is sure that twice two make
have seene that in the judgement of Athanasius hee would not then surely neither was it such an Angell of whom he himselfe did seeke to be blessed And Hierome upon the words of Hosea saith plainly that this angell is God None of the Fathers are here alledged against us but onely Austine whom I have shewed to testifie abundantly for us That which hee saith in the place quoted is that Iob seemeth to desire the angels to intreat for him or else some of the Saints But Pineda a Jesuite doth not like this Exposition but calles it allegoricall and expoundes it as it ought to be expounded of those friends of Iob that disputed with him If our adversaries shall reply that though Austine did not rightly expound the words of Iob yet however hee shewed it to be his opinion that the angells might be prayed unto I answer first Austine here maketh as well against them as against us For he speakes as much of Iobs praying unto Saints as unto angells now our adversaries hold as I shall shew more hereafter that in those times before Christs comming the Saints were not to be prayed unto Again Austine doth not say that Iob did pray either to Saints or angels but that hee desired yea onely that hee seemeth to have desired that they might pray for him Thirdly for one place wherein Austine speaketh obscurely and doubtfully for praying to angels wee have many plaine and evident testimonies of his against it as before I have shewed Lastly Austine himselfe hath taught us to believe neither him nor any other further then they accord with the Scriptures but that we may saving the reverence that is due unto them dissent from them when as they dissent from the truth Thus he saith he did in respect of the writings of others and so he would have others to doe in respect of his writings From the Angels the Marquess passeth to the Saints deceased saying We hold that the Saints deceased know what passeth here on Earth you say they know not we have Scripture for it Luke 16. 29. where Abraham knew that there were Moses and the Prophets bookes here on Earth which he himselfe had never seene when he was alive The Fathers say as much Euseb Ser. de Ann. S. Hiero. in Epit. Paulae S. Max. Ser. de Agnete Answ That the Saints deceased doe not know the particular affaires of men here on Earth the Scripture doth teach us Iob. 14. 21. His sonnes come to honour and he knoweth it not and they are brought low but he perceiveth it not of them There Iob speakes indefinitely of a man departed out of this life whether he be Saint or no Saint and sheweth that he doth not so much as understand the estate of such as had most neare relation unto him and how then shall we perswade our selves that hee doth understand the estate of others And from those words Isai 63. 16. Abraham is ignorant of us and Israel knoweth us not Austine doth inferre that the Dead are not acquainted with the affaires of the Living If not our parents saith hee what other dead persons know what we doe or suffer If so great Patriarkes Abraham and Jacob knew not how it fared with those that did descend from them how doe the dead intermeddle in knowing and helping the affaires of those that are alive For my part I thinke that place of Esay not so pertinent to the purpose but that the meaning of it is that the people of Israel were so degenerate that Abraham and Israel if they knew what manner of persons they were would not own them not acknowledge them for their posterity yet however Austine sheweth what his Opinion was concerning those that are deceased viz. that they are ignorant of the things that are done here which is evident enough by those words of Iob before cited Bellarmine sayes that Gregory upon the place doth answer that naturally the dead know not how it fares with the liking but that yet the Saints being glorified doe see in God all things quae nimirum ad ipsos pertinent viz. which doe belong unto them But Gregory upon those words of Iob saith thus As they that are alive know not where the soules of the dead are so they that are dead know not how they live that are after them Indeed hee addes presently after This yet is not to be thought of the holy soules because they that see the brightnesse of Almighty God are by no meanes to be thought ignorant of any thing besides Therefore he understands Iob as speaking onely of such dead persons as are unholy whereas indeed Iobs words are indefinite and indifferently to be understood of all that are dead except by speciall Revelation any thing done here below be made known unto them Thou destroyest the hope of man v. 19. viz. his hope of continuing here in this life Thou changest his countenance and sendest him away v. 20. This holdes in respect of all and then followes His sonnes come to honour and hee knoweth it not c. v. 21. So that the coherence of the words shews that they are meant generally of all that are deceased And that which Gregory saith of the Saints that seeing God in him they see all things Bellarmine himselfe it seemes did thinke too lavish and therefore he limits it to all things which concerne them or belong unto them Which limitation doth indeed mar his market for how doth it appeare that it belongs unto the Saints departed to understand particular occurrences here below and namely all the prayers that any shall make unto them which is the scope that they of the Church of Rome aime at when they speake of the Saints knowing things here on Earth but of that more God willing hereafter But for the Saints knowing our affaires it was it seemes in the time of Lombard above 1100 years after Christ a point not much believed For Lombard moving the question saith onely this It is not incredible that the soules of the Saints enjoying the vision of God doe understand humane and earthly affaires so far as concernes their joy and our helpe Hee doth not say that this is certaine but onely that it is not incredible And Bellarmine himselfe relating foure severall opinions about the manner how the Saints know things here upon Earth of two of them viz. that they know them by the relation of Angels or by being after a sort every where present hee saith plainly that neither of them doth satisfie and gives convincing Reasons for it And for the other two opinions viz. that the Saints from the beginning of their blessednesse doe in God see all things that any way appertaine unto them Or that God doth then reveale things unto the Saints when any at any time doe pray unto them hee likes not the latter of these because hee saith If the Saints did neede a new revelation upon every occasion the Church would
Testament was but should be performed in every place as well in one place as another This is that which our Saviour said to the Woman of Samaria Woman believe me the houre commeth when ye shall neither in this Mountaine nor yet at Ierusalem worship the Father The houre commeth and now is when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth c. Joh. 4. 21 23. S. Paul also to the same purpose I will therefore that men pray every where lifting up holy hands c. 1 Tim. 2. 8. This is that incense and pure offering which the Prophet Malachy said should be offered unto God in every place This incense and pure Offering are the prayers of the Saints Revel 5. 8. And all spirituall sacrifices which Christians offer acceptable unto God thorough Iesus Christ 1 Pet. 2. 5. What is this to prove that Christ is truly and properly sacrificed in the Eucharist It is true the Fathers sometimes apply that place of Malachy to the Sacrament of the Eucharist but not as if Christ were there in that Sacrament truly and properly sacrificed nor as if that place concerned this Sacrament more then any other spirituall worship now to be performed under the new Testament Irenaeus in one Chapter applies it to the Sacrament and in the very next immediately after hee applies it to Prayer Having cited the words of Malachy In every place incense is offered to my Name and a pure offering immediately hee addes Now Iohn in the Revelation saith that incense are the Prayers of the Saints So also Hierome in his commentary upon the words of Malachy Now the Lord directs his speech to the Iewish Priests who offer the Blind and the Lame and the sick for sacrifice that they may know that spirituall sacrifices are to succeed carnall sacrifices And that not the blood of Buls and Goates but incense that is the Prayers of the Saints are to be offered unto the Lord and that not in one province of the world Iudea nor in one City of Iudea Hierusalem but in every place is offered an offering not impure as was offered by the people of Israel but pure as is offered in the ceremonies or services of Christians Here it is very observable that Hierome writing professedly upon the place of the Prophet to shew the meaning of it was so far from thinking it to be peculiarly meant of the Eucharist that hee doth not so much as mention that Sacrament otherwise then it is comprehended in those spirituall sacrifices which hee saith are here spoken of but as hee saith that spirituall sacrifices in generall are here signified so particularly hee applieth the words of the Prophet unto prayer saying that it is the incense which the Prophet speaketh of The other place of Scripture viz. Luke 22. 19. is as little to the purpose though Bellarmine also doth alledge and urge it in the same manner saying that Christ did not say Vobis datur frangitur effunditur sed pro vobis is given broken shed to you but for you But what of this Wee know and believe that Christs Body was given and his Blood shed for us on the crosse in remembrance whereof according to Christs institution wee receive the Sacrament but doth it therefore follow that Christ is properly offered and sacrificed in the Sacrament The ground of this conceit is that the word is in the present tense datur is given not in the future dabitur shall be given But this is too weake a foundation to build upon For Bellarmine cannot deny but that in the Scripture the present or the preter tense is often put for the future And well might it be so here Christ being now ready to be offered he instituting the Sacrament the same night that he was betrayed 1 Cor. 11. 23. the night before hee suffered And therefore Cardinall Cajetan was much more ingenuous then Cardinall Bellarmine For upon 1 Cor. 11. 23. he notes that both the Evangelists and also Paul relating the words of the institution of the Sacrament of the Lords Supper use the present tense is given or broken and is shed because when Christ did institute the Sacrament though his Body was not yet crucified nor his Blood shed yet the crucifying of his Body and the shedding of his Blood was at hand and in a manner present Yea the time of Christs suffering hee saith was then present as being then begun And therefore as when the day is begun wee may signifie in the present tense whatsoever is done that day so the day of Christs Passion being begun the Jewes beginning the day at the Evening all his Passion might be signified by a word of the present tense The present being taken Gramatically not for an instant but for a certaine time confusedly present The ancient Writers also have expounded the present tense used in the words of the institution by the future Heare Christ himselfe saith Origen saying unto thee This is my Blood which shall be shed c. So also Tertullian rehearseth Christs words thus This is my Body which shall be given for you And even the vulgar Latine Translation Mat. 26. 28. Mar. 14. 24. hath it in the future tense effundetur and so Luke 22. 20. fundetur shall be shed and 1 Cor. 11. 24. tradetur shall be given Now for the Fathers whom the Marquesse alledgeth as being of their opinion I answer the Fathers indeed doe frequently use the word sacrifice and offering when they speake of the Eucharist but it doth not therefore follow that according to their opinion there is a true and proper sacrifice offered in the Eucharist For it is certaine that they doe also frequently use the same words when they speake of those things which the Romanists themselves acknowledge to be no sacrifices properly so called even as the Scripture speaketh of the sacrifice of Prayer Psal 141. 2. of praise Heb. 13. 15. of Almes Heb. 13. 16. of our own selves Rom. 12. 1. And where the Fathers as the Marquesse observeth call the Eucharist an unbloodly sacrifice they sufficiently shew that properly Christ is not sacrificed in it For as Bellarmine himselfe doth tell us All sacrifices properly so called that the Scriptures speake of were to be destroyed and that by staying if they were things having life and if they were solid things without life as fine Floure Salt and Frankincense they were to be destroyed by burning Besides I have shewed before by the testimony of Lombard that the Fathers sometimes expressely speake of Christs being sacrificed in the Eucharist in that there is a commemoration and remembrance of the sacrifice which Christ upon the crosse did offer for us Bellarmine objects that Baptisme doth represent the death of Christ and yet none of the ancients doe ever call Baptisme a sacrifice and therefore the representation of Christs death alone could not be the cause why they call the Lords Supper a
but such as were threescore years old or more But the greatest difficulty is what is meant by the first faith which the Apostle saith the younger Widdowes did cast off and therefore had damnation 1 Tim. 5. 12. It is true the antient Writers for most part expound it of a promise or covenant of a single life but all that goe this way doe not speake of any vow that was made neither Chrysostome nor Theophylact doth upon the place Yea some of the antients shew that they understood the Apostle as speaking of the Christian faith or the common faith as it is called Tit. 1. 4. sure I am some of them make use of the Apostles words and apply them that way Hierome speaking of Heretikes saith that they have cast off or made voide their first faith So Vincentius Lirinensis in his Booke against Heresies saith It is well knowne how grievously the blessed Apostle Paul doth inveigh against those who with wonderfull lightnesse are quickly removed from him that called them to the grace of Christ unto another Gospell which is not another who heape up to themselves teachers after their own lusts turning away their Eares from the truth being turned unto fables having damnation because they have made void their first faith Bellarmine therefore was more curious and criticall if not rather more captious and contentious then tender and respective of the credit of these antient Doctours when he said that faith here must be taken for covenant and vow yet there may be a covenant where there is no vow and cannot be taken for Christian faith because Christian faith is not rightly said to be made voide but to be lost or corrupted but covenants and vowes are most properly said to be made voide Hierom and Vincentius understood the propriety of words as well as Bellarmine who shewes himselfe barbarous in these very words wherein he so playes the critick yet they wee see thought it not improper to say that Heretikes make voide the faith which is necessarily meant of the Christian faith and not of any vow or covenant Nether doe I see but that wee may as properly say that faith being meant of the Christian faith is made voide as that the Law is made voide Heb. 10. 28. or that the grace of God is made voide Gal. 2. 21. wee reade it in the former place despised in the other place frustrate but the Greeke word in both places is the same with that in the Epistle to Timothy And as the words will well beare this sense viz. that it is the Christian faith which the Apostle saith some did cast off or make void so this sense is agreeable to the Apostles expressions in other places of this Epistle Holding faith and a good conscience which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwrack 1 Tim. 1. 19. If they continue in faith 1 Tim. 2. 15. Some shall depart from the faith 1 Tim. 4. 1. And in the very same Chapter in which are the words controverted If any provide not for his own c. hee hath denied the faith c. 1 Tim. 5. 8. So also in the other Epistle to Timothy who concerning the truth have erred c. and overthrow the faith of some 2 Tim. 2. 18. Men of corrupt minds reprobate concerning the faith 2 Tim. 3. 8. I have kept the faith 2 Tim. 4. 7. In all these places faith is understood of Christian faith and therefore probably so is it in that other place about which wee dispute So that this may well be the meaning of the place that they of whom the Apostle speakes being censured of the Church for their lightnesse and lasciviousnesse and not able to beare the disgrace did quite cast off the Christian faith which before they professed and so exposed themselves unto damnation I see nothing uncouth nor incongruous in this Exposition and it doth well agree with that which the Apostle saith a little after For some are allready turned after Satan 1 Tim. 5. 15. which words seeme to import a plaine and open renouncing of Christ as on the other side to come after CHRIST is as much as to professe his Name Mat. 16. 24. Luke 9. 23. Object But may some say the Apostle reproves these of whom hee speakes for that they begin to wax wanton against Christ and will marry which argues that they had vowed or professed continency for else why might they not marry The wife is bound by the Law so long as her husband liveth but if her husband be dead she is at liberty to be married to whom she will only in the Lord. 1 Cor. 7. 39. Ans I grant that those Widdowes though they did not vow yet by the very course of life which they entred upon did professe continency marriage and that course being inconsistent And justly might they be reproved both for their rashnesse in taking upon them that profession and for their lightnesse in falling off from it when there was no just cause for it The Apostle doth not simply condemne them for having a minde to marry but because out of wantonnesse they would needs marry And it might be called wantonnesse against Christ because they had addicted themselves to the service of Christ in his Church and Members which service they did desert by their wantonnesse And in this sense by their first faith may be meant the promise either formall or virtuall which those Widdowes did make unto the church that they would remaine Widdowes and not marry which promise they breaking meerely out of wantonnesse well might the Apostle say that they had damnation for it But all this proves not that it is sinfull and damnable for any that have vowed continency afterwards to marry Though Bellarmine will by no meanes endure that those words of the Apostle I will therefore that the younger Widdowes marry c. 1 Tim. 5. 14. be understood of such as had professed continency as if the Apostle would have such to marry if they could not containe So also Estius upon the place who saith that otherwise the Apostle should cast them headlong into damnation For if they have damnation who have a will to marry how much more they that doe marry But though I thinke that the Apostles direct meaning was that the younger Widdowes should not be admitted into the number of those who were by their place and calling to professe continency into which number hee would have none admitted under 60. years old yet Estius his reason is not valid For the Apostle doth not say that the younger Widdowes being admitted into that number and afterwards willing to marry or actually marrying therefore had damnation but because they would marry out of wantonnesse and so out of wantonnesse make voide their first faith viz. their promise of continency made to the Church if not their Christian Faith which before they professed Notwithstanding which sentence it followes not but
the Masse which for many years he had celebrated was evil and unlawful as being most repugnant to Christs institution This many of the Romish writers upbraid him with as if the Masse must needs therfore be good because the Devil did plead against it Protestants make use of those very arguments which the Devil did urge in his dispute with Luther But though the Devil be a liar and hath alwayes some evil and false end at which he aims yet the thing it self which he saith is not alwayes false For he confessed Christ to be the Son of God Mat. 8. 29. and Paul and his companions to be the servants of the most high God which did shew the way of salvation Act. 16. 17. Neither do I see any reason why Luther might not come to see his error and to correct it by the Devils dispute with him though the Devil intended no such matter as well as Monica Austin's mother came to see her vice and to abandon it by being upbraided with it by one whose intent was nothing lesse then to work such an effect upon her Mr. Breerley will not admit that the Devil in that dispute did seek to drive Luther to despaire But Luther whom any indifferent man will rather believe in this case did judge otherwise of it It is true saith he the Devil is a liar but an artificial liar his lies are more cunning and crafty then man is able to imagine He layes hold on some clear truth that cannot be denied and doth urge it so subtilly and doth so varnish his lie as to deceive even those that are most wary As that thought which he put into Judas was true I have betraied innocent blood this Judas could not deny But this was a lie Therfore I must despair of Gods mercy Yet did the Devil bring him to this Therefore when the Devil doth urge the greatnesse of sinne he doth not lie but herein he lieth that he would make me to despair of Gods grace I confessed being convinced by the law of God before the Devil that I sinned but with Peter I turn me unto Christ c. This plainly shewes what in Luthers judgment the Devill did aime at though he failed in his designe Neither is this answer impertinent as Mr. Breerley also doth pretend as may sufficiently appear by what I have said before It makes nothing he saith to prove that the Devill therefore did not instruct Luther against the Masse But what if Luther were convinced of his errour by those arguments which the Devill urged against him only to drive him to despaire This doth but set forth the wisdom and goodnesse of God in making use of the malice of the Devill for the good of those whom he loveth As Austine observeth in the reformation which God wrought in his Mother when she was a young girle by the means of a maid that falling out with her cast her in the teeth with her wine-bibbing thinking only to reproach and vex her but God by the distemper of the one did work a cure upon the other From Luther the Marquess passeth to Zuinglius saying that Gualterus calls him the author of warre the disturber of peace proud and cruell and instances in his strange attempts against the Tigurines his fellowes whom he forced by want and famine to follow his Doctrine and that he died in armour and in the warre When I only looked upon the place as cited by the Marquess viz. In Apolog. pro Zuing. I could not but admire that Gualterus in his Apologie for Zuinglius should write thus of him But examining the truth of the Quotation I am much more filled with admiration For Gaulterus is made to charge Zuinglius with these things which he doth purposely and professedly clear him of complaining of those that do charge him with them He shews that Zuinglius was not the author of that war which was betwixt the Tigurines and their neighbours It was the fashion he saith among the Tigurines when they went to war in behalf of their country to have their Ministers along with them And so Zuinglius went out to battel and died in it and that armed yet not either as chief Commander or Ensigne-bearer but only as a good Citizen and faithful Pastor who might not leave his people in such an exigence And whereas the Marquess speaks of Gualterus his instancing in Zuinglius his strange attempts against the Tigurines c. it was a great oversight in him For Gualterus only taxeth them who say Zuinglius Tigurinis novi exquisitifacinoris contra socios audendi author fuerit vt videl victus inopiâ famis necessitate eos in suas partes concedere cogeret c. that is That Zuinglius caused the Tigurines to attempt a strange enterprise against their companions other Helvetians that were their confederates so as by want and famine to force them to joyn with them c. Thus all this great charge brought against Zuinglius is built meerly upon mistakes The next that the Marquesse falls upon is Beza upon whom is cast a most foul asperfion That in his Epigrams he hath Verses concerning his Boy Andebert and his Wench Candida and that having debated at large which sinne is to be preferr'd he chooseth the Boy at last Answ If Beza had indeed sometime been guilty of this vile enormity which is fained of him what could any justly inferre from hence but that the grace of God did eminently appeare in that change which afterwards was wrought in him The Apostle having spoken of such as are guilty of grosse sinnes and among the rest of this here charged upon Beza saith to the Corinthians And such were some of you but you are washed but you are sanctified but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God I Cor. 6. II. But it can never be proved that Beza was guilty of such wickednesse though divers both Romanists and Lutherans have charged him with it Beza hath made answer for himself I. He confesseth that in his younger years he had exercised his Poetical faculty by composing amatorious Verses but he saith it is no equal dealing that what he did in sport should be interpreted as done in earnest 2. He professeth that he had by a publike writing rejected and disavowed those Verses and complaineth of his adversaries who would not suffer them to be abolished 3. He sheweth that this Candida spoken of in his Epigrams is but a fained name 4. That Andebert who is also mentioned in those Epigrams was a man of known integrity and of great dignity in France and that therefore an odious thing it was so to pervert that great friendship and familiarity which he had with him as to turn it into that execrable filthinesse not to be named Mr. Breerley who sets down a great many of those Verses which the Marquesse doth but