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a_o upstart_n religion_n never_o hear_v of_o in_o the_o world_n till_o luther_n day_n prot._n first_o let_v i_o ask_v you_o this_o question_n if_o you_o have_v live_v in_o the_o day_n of_o christ_n or_o of_o the_o apostle_n or_o of_o the_o primitive_a father_n what_o will_v you_o have_v answer_v for_o yourself_o you_o know_v better_o than_o i_o that_o this_o be_v the_o very_a argument_n which_o jew_n and_o heathen_n urge_v against_o the_o christian_n then_o they_o charge_v christ_n with_o not_o walk_v after_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o elder_n matth._n 7._o 5._o and_o the_o athenian_n say_v to_o paul_n may_v we_o know_v what_o this_o new_a doctrine_n be_v act._n 17._o 19_o and_o the_o pharisee_n have_v antiquity_n on_o their_o side_n be_v zealous_a for_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o father_n gal._n 1._o 14._o and_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o apostle_n have_v the_o first_o antiquity_n for_o they_o deliver_v nothing_o but_o what_o for_o substance_n be_v in_o moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n act._n 26._o 22._o which_o also_o be_v our_o case_n yet_o the_o immediate_a and_o latter_a antiquity_n be_v against_o they_o and_o for_o divers_a age_n together_o these_o doctrine_n have_v be_v in_o great_a measure_n obscure_v and_o unknown_a what_o then_o will_v you_o have_v answer_v to_o a_o jew_n or_o a_o heathen_a object_v this_o novelty_n to_o you_o learn_v from_o christ_n who_o when_o the_o jew_n plead_v for_o the_o continuance_n of_o their_o old_a practice_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o divorce_n he_o account_v it_o sufficient_a confutation_n that_o from_o the_o beginning_n it_o be_v not_o so_o mat._n 19_o 7._o and_o to_o all_o the_o pretence_n of_o the_o pharisee_n from_o antiquity_n he_o oppose_v this_o one_o thing_n search_v the_o scripture_n john_n 5._o 39_o so_o you_o dispute_v against_o we_o with_o the_o argument_n which_o the_o pharisee_n use_v against_o christ_n and_o we_o answer_v you_o as_o he_o answer_v they_o beside_o let_v i_o ask_v you_o this_o question_n if_o i_o can_v clear_o prove_v to_o you_o all_o the_o point_n of_o our_o faith_n and_o disprove_v the_o point_n of_o you_o from_o the_o holy_a scripture_n tell_v i_o will_v you_o then_o acknowledge_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o protestant_a religion_n notwithstanding_o all_o this_o pretend_a novelty_n pop._n yes_o certain_o for_o we_o all_o confess_v the_o truth_n of_o all_o that_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n prot._n hence_o than_o it_o follow_v undeniable_o that_o the_o main_a thing_n that_o you_o and_o i_o must_v look_v to_o in_o our_o faith_n be_v that_o it_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o if_o we_o be_v so_o as_o i_o be_o full_o persuade_v it_o be_v and_o you_o the_o contrary_a neither_o antiquity_n be_v any_o argument_n for_o you_o nor_o novelty_n against_o we_o beside_o when_o you_o charge_v our_o church_n with_o novelty_n i_o suppose_v you_o mean_v that_o our_o doctrine_n be_v new_a pop._n i_o do_v so_o prot._n then_o you_o can_v 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&_o 12._o 6._o that_o be_v year_n it_o be_v a_o very_a familiar_a thing_n to_o put_v day_n for_o year_n in_o prophetical_a write_n but_o if_o the_o church_n may_v be_v obscure_v for_o three_o year_n why_o not_o for_o thirty_o yea_o three_o hundred_o do_v christ_n in_o his_o suppose_a promise_n of_o perpetual_a visibility_n in_o the_o church_n make_v a_o exception_n for_o these_o three_o year_n i_o trow_v not_o and_o tell_v i_o i_o pray_v you_o shall_v you_o live_v till_o that_o time_n when_o antichrist_n shall_v prevail_v and_o your_o religion_n no_o less_o than_o we_o be_v obscure_a and_o invisible_a if_o any_o of_o the_o follower_n of_o antichrist_n shall_v dispute_v against_o you_o that_o you_o be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n because_o not_o visible_a will_v you_o grant_v it_o pop._n god_n forbid_v i_o shall_v be_v so_o wicked_a to_o deny_v my_o mother_n and_o church_n because_o of_o her_o affliction_n prot._n then_o i_o see_v you_o yourselves_o do_v not_o believe_v this_o to_o 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church_n what_o if_o the_o record_n of_o these_o thing_n by_o the_o injury_n of_o time_n be_v lose_v and_o their_o original_n leave_v in_o obscurity_n shall_v i_o therefore_o say_v it_o be_v now_o become_v no_o heresy_n i_o beseech_v you_o answer_v i_o free_o this_o question_n suppose_v i_o can_v bring_v plain_a and_o strong_a evidence_n from_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o from_o ancient_a tradition_n or_o the_o unanimous_a testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n that_o your_o doctrine_n of_o merit_n for_o instance_n be_v a_o heresy_n your_o doctrine_n of_o worship_v image_n be_v idolatry_n and_o that_o you_o be_v in_o divers_a particular_n apostatise_v from_o that_o faith_n which_o the_o scripture_n and_o father_n do_v own_o in_o this_o case_n will_v you_o not_o confess_v that_o you_o be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n heresy_n and_o apostasy_n pop._n if_o it_o be_v so_o and_o you_o can_v real_o bring_v as_o you_o false_o pretend_v you_o can_v but_o indeed_o can_v any_o such_o solid_a proof_n i_o must_v and_o will_v confess_v it_o for_o all_o our_o writer_n agree_v that_o although_o we_o must_v believe_v many_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o scripture_n yet_o we_o must_v believe_v nothing_o contrary_a to_o the_o scripture_n nor_o to_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n prot._n very_o well_o hence_o than_o i_o gather_v that_o the_o only_a question_n between_o you_o and_o i_o be_v whether_o we_o can_v evident_o and_o solid_o prove_v the_o particular_n now_o mention_v which_o if_o we_o can_v do_v as_o i_o be_o satisfy_v our_o minister_n have_v do_v you_o be_v convict_v in_o your_o own_o conscience_n and_o will_v confess_v yourself_o and_o your_o church_n guilty_a of_o heresy_n idolatry_n and_o apostasy_n whether_o i_o can_v tell_v the_o manner_n or_o time_n or_o author_n of_o this_o doctrine_n or_o no._n therefore_o leave_v these_o frivolous_a and_o impertinent_a question_n let_v i_o hear_v what_o you_o have_v to_o say_v more_o against_o 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remission_n of_o punishment_n which_o be_v procure_v by_o indulgence_n in_o that_o case_n it_o be_v not_o inconvenient_a that_o the_o rich_a be_v in_o a_o better_a condition_n than_o the_o poor_a for_o there_o it_o be_v not_o say_v come_v and_o buy_v without_o money_n ibid._n i_o confess_v that_o be_v a_o dangerous_a speech_n and_o will_v utter_o undo_v all_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n it_o be_v sufficient_a that_o isaiah_n once_o say_v it_o and_o christ_n again_o come_v and_o drink_v free_o people_n shall_v have_v be_v wise_a and_o take_v they_o at_o their_o word_n for_o they_o be_v never_o like_a to_o hear_v it_o a_o three_o time_n be_v this_o true_a pop._n they_o do_v indeed_o say_v so_o and_o the_o practice_n of_o our_o church_n manifest_v to_o all_o the_o world_n that_o indulgence_n be_v sell_v for_o money_n and_o the_o condition_n of_o the_o rich_a in_o that_o be_v better_a than_o the_o poor_a but_o what_o great_a matter_n be_v that_o as_o to_o the_o pardon_n of_o sin_n and_o 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then_o i_o see_v you_o pretend_v to_o no_o more_o certainty_n than_o i_o have_v for_o i_o know_v and_o you_o grant_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v infallible_a in_o itself_o and_o i_o know_v its_o infallibility_n as_o certain_o as_o you_o know_v the_o infallibility_n of_o your_o church_n but_o i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o what_o be_v your_o opinion_n i_o know_v your_o be_v divide_v but_o where_o do_v you_o place_v the_o infallibility_n or_o where_o do_v you_o lay_v the_o foundation_n of_o your_o faith_n pop._n to_o deal_v free_o with_o you_o i_o place_v it_o in_o the_o pope_n who_o when_o he_o determine_v thing_n out_o of_o his_o chair_n be_v infallible_a for_o s._n peter_n who_o be_v supreme_a head_n of_o the_o church_n leave_v the_o pope_n his_o successor_n prot._n then_o it_o seem_v your_o faith_n do_v whole_o depend_v on_o these_o thing_n that_o saint_n peter_n be_v bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o die_v there_o and_o that_o he_o leave_v the_o pope_n his_o successor_n in_o his_o supreme_a and_o infallible_a authority_n pop._n it_o do_v so_o prot._n how_o then_o be_v you_o infallible_o assure_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o these_o thing_n which_o be_v all_o matter_n of_o fact_n pop._n because_o they_o be_v affirm_v by_o so_o many_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o writer_n prot._n be_v those_o father_n or_o writer_n infallible_a person_n pop._n no._n prot._n then_o may_v they_o and_o so_o may_v you_o be_v mistake_v in_o that_o point_n and_o so_o indeed_o you_o have_v nothing_o but_o a_o mere_a conjecture_n for_o the_o foundation_n of_o your_o faith_n but_o again_o be_v you_o infallible_o sure_a that_o saint_n peter_n intention_n be_v to_o leave_v his_o infallibility_n to_o the_o pope_n for_o i_o do_v not_o read_v that_o s._n peter_n leave_v it_o in_o his_o last_n wil._n i_o tell_v you_o true_a it_o be_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o st._n peter_n shall_v write_v two_o catholic_n epistle_n and_o as_o i_o observe_v before_o not_o leave_v one_o word_n concern_v this_o matter_n for_o my_o part_n i_o shall_v always_o rather_o question_v the_o pope_n authority_n than_o s._n peter_n fidelity_n or_o discretion_n in_o omit_v so_o fundamental_a a_o point_n when_o he_o put_v in_o many_o of_o far_o less_o concernment_n but_o further_a i_o demand_v how_o be_v you_o assure_v that_o st._n peter_n intend_v to_o leave_v his_o power_n and_o do_v actual_o leave_v it_o to_o his_o successor_n pop._n by_o the_o unanimous_a consent_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n prot._n i_o wonder_v at_o your_o confidence_n that_o you_o dare_v affirm_v a_o thing_n which_o our_o author_n other_o have_v so_o clear_o prove_v to_o be_v false_a but_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o that_o the_o father_n have_v say_v it_o tell_v i_o be_v the_o father_n infallible_a at_o least_o be_v they_o so_o in_o their_o report_n of_o matter_n of_o fact_n pop._n no_o we_o confess_v that_o it_o be_v only_o the_o pope_n or_o council_n that_o be_v infallible_a not_o the_o father_n &_o to_o be_v true_a to_o you_o even_o 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