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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A03883	A treatise concerning the ground of faith. VVritten in Latin, by the reuerend Father Iames Gordon Huntley of Scotland, Doctour of Diuinity, of the Society of Iesus. And translated into English, by I.L. of the same Society. The second part of the second controuersy; Controversiarum epitomes. English. Selections	Gordon, James, 1541-1620.; Wright, William, 1563-1639.	1614 (1614)	STC 13997A; ESTC S118149	27,760	72

faith we do not vnderstand by the Church the shoulders or bodyes of them who are in her but their authority doctrine and preaching for by these thinges faith is ingendred and as the Apostle witnesseth faith is by hearing 15. But whensoeuer we treate of the true Church of Christ we do not speake of that which wanteth true faith which is deafe dumme or foolish and which also eyther neglecteth or not vnderstandeth the Word of God or Scriptures for such a Church is not the true Church of Christ. But we speake of that which belieueth which speaketh which preached the pure word of God which kepeth and expoundeth the Scriptures most faithfully and which fittly applyeth them in Sermons Exhortations Amōg vs therfore all these wordes haue one and the same signification the Church the faith of the Church the preaching and doctrine of the Church the word of God preached by the Church and the truth of God proposed vnto vs by the Church And we vnderstand all these thinges by the name of the Church when we say that she is the groūd of our fayth For all these thinges are eyther properties actions or offices of the Church which cannot be separated from her 16. Wherefore our Aduersaries doe erre exceedingly whē they separate euery one of these from the Church and oppose or obiect it against her as though it were a quite distinct thing from her nay of the true Church of Christ they make her the Sinagogue of Sathan Therfore the Apostolicall Propheticall doctrine must not be separated and made opposite vnto the Church as Caluin doth seeing that it is an essentiall part of the visible Church Caluin therefore disputeth as if one should make this argument A man without his soule neyther seeth speaketh nor vnderstandeth therefore a man neyther seeth speaketh nor vnderstandeth 17. But peraduenture some will say We haue said a little before that faith is the ground of the Church and now we say that the Church is the ground of faith wherof the one seemeth to be contrary vnto the other I answere that heere there is no contrariety For there are two kindes of faith the one is the particuler faith of euery Christian wherby togeather with hope and charity euery one is iustified the other is the generall and common faith of the whole Church The particuler faith of ech one relyeth vpon the Church to wit vpon the faith preaching and authority of the whole Church But she her selfe relyeth vpon the generall faith and profession and preaching thereof in the whole Church which is an essentiall part of the visible Church When therfore we say that the Church is the ground of faith we speak of the particuler faith of euery Christian. But when we say that faith is the ground of the Church we speake of the generall faith of the whole Church 18. There are other arguments of our Aduersaries but we may easily answere therunto by that which hath byn already said the which Melchior Canus and Bellarmine doth prosecute and handle more at large vnto whom we referre the Reader For they are borrowed of the Anabaptists Libertines wherby the authority of the holy Scriptures themselues is no lesse diminished and infringed then that of the Church CHAP. VII That the Church doth not only giue a bare testimony but also authority to the Scripture THIS matter is heere briefly to be examined that it may more clearly be vnderstood how necessary the Churches approbation is to the establishing of the authority of the holy Scriptures But to the end that it may more clearely appeare wherof we dispute in this place it is to be considered that seing that our Aduersaries cannot deny but that the Church affoardeth some testimony to the holy Scriptures they affirme that this testimony of the Church is only a bare testimony and not a testimony of authority 2. For there are two kindes of testimonyes The one is called a testimony of authority because vpon it the truth of the things testified dependeth Yt is called also a necessary testimony because without it the thing in question is not sufficiently testified The other is called a bare testimony and not necessary that is to say when such a testimony is not so necessary because the matter is otherwise sufficiently testified Such a testimony was that which S. Iohn Baptist gaue of Christ. For Christ had sufficient testimonies besides 3. Of the former testimony of authority Christ saith But I do not receyue my testimony from men to wit the testimony of authority necessary For of the bare testimony he had spoken a little before You sent vnto Iohn and he hath giuen testimony to truth But this was a bare testimony wherfore Christ a little after said I haue a greater testimony then Iohn for the workes which the Father hath giuen me to profit them the very works which I do giue testimony of me that the Father hath sent me And the Father that sent me himselfe hath guien testimony of me All which saith Christ of the testimony of authority Our Aduersaries therefore say that the Church giueth only a bare testimony to the Scriptures as S. Iohn gaue to Christ but she giueth not a necessary testimony or that of authority 4. But that the testimony of the Church is altogeather necessary as that wherof the authority of the Scriptures dependeth is very manifest by that which is said in the former Chapter And by that also which we alleadged in the first disputation where we shew that there is now no firme testimony wherby we may know certainly which booke is canonicall and which not besides the testimonie of the Catholike Church For now neyther are the miracles wrought which God did in tymes past neyther doth God speake immediatly by himselfe as he spake in the baptisme and transfiguration of Christ. VVherefore there remayneth only the third ordinary manner wherby God speaketh by the mouth of the Church The Church therfore doth not giue a bare testimony only to the holy Scripturs but the testimony of authority to wit that wherof the authority of the Scriptures dependeth as concerning vs and our knowledge 5. Moreouer if the doctine of S. Paul stood need of the Churches approbation as we haue already proued out of the Scriptures much more S. Lukes Ghospell who was only S. Pauls scholler stood need therof as Tertullian witnesseth especially because S. Luke receyued not those things which he wrot by reuelation from God as S. Paul did but by tradition from others as he himselfe writeth And the same also may be said of S. Marke whose Ghospell as S. Hierome writeth the Apostle S. Peter approued and by his authority he commaunded it should be read in the Church 6. But neyther is it true that some say that the authority of approuing the Canonicall bookes was only resident in the Apostles and the primitiue Church but the ensuing Church hath is not For the Apostles did not

approue all the Canonicall bookes of the new testament For if they had donne so there had remayned no doubt of many of them for many ages after the death of the Apostles euen among Catholike good men as we haue noted before But many yeares after the Apostles tyme by the generall Councells and Decrees of the Church some bookes were approued wherof there was before some doubt 7. Yea more then six hundred yeares after Christ there were many Catholikes who did not receyue the authority of the Apocalyps as appeareth out of the fourth Toletane Councell 8. And that which is more before the Councell of Trent the were many Catholikes who thought that it was lawfull for them to doubt of all the bookes of the new Testament the which in tymes past S Hierome seemed to iudge as doubtfull as are the Epistles of S. Iames the second of S. Peter the second and third of S. Iohn the Epistles of S. Iude the Epistles to the Hebrewes and the Apocalyps And if it had not byn for the Councell of Trēt or some other new Decree of the Church none would as yet condemne them as Heretikes who called those bookes in question 9. By that which hath byn sayd it appeareth manifestly that the Canonicall Scriptures receiue their strength and authority not from the approbation of the primitiue Church but rather from the approbation of the Church succeeding yea euen of this present Church to wit of the Councell of Trent 10. Lastly albeit the present Church should not haue the authority of approuing Scriptures as these men say yet notwithstanding for three other reasons the authority testimony of this present Church is necessary First because we know not certainly what bookes the primitiue Church hath eyther written or not written approued or reiected but by the testimony of the present Church Secondly neyther do we know whether those bookes came vncorrupted vnto vs or noe but by the same testimony Thirdly because we cannot otherwise know which is the true sense of those bookes CHAP. VIII The Argument of our Aduersaryes are confuted THE first argument of our Aduersaries is The Church is grounded vpon the word of God and by the word also of God it is engendred nourished and gouerned and it is subiect to the word of God as to the words of her spouse I answere our Aduersaries do in a manner cōfound the writtē word of God with the word of God in generall the which they should not doe for ther are three sorts of the word of God to wit that which is belieued preached and written The belieued word is in the hart of the Church that which is preached is in her mouth and that which is written is in her bookes Of the belieued and preached word the Apostle sayth the word is in thy mouth and in thy hart this is the word of fayth which we preach We confesse that in the belieued and preached word the Church is founded because by the same it is ingendred nourished and gouerned and that vnto this word it is subiect and obedient as vnto the Words of her spouse For indeed this kind of word is necessary for the Church For with our hart sayth the Apostle we belieue vnto Iustice but with the mouth confession is made to saluation And againe How shall they heare without a preacher 2. But the nature of the written word is farre different for this is neyther altogeather necessary for the Church seeing that the Church was without it more then two thousand yeares neyther can the written word be profitable to the Church vnlesse it be also rightly preached and belieued For what doth it profit a man to haue the Bible vnlesse he rightly belieue and vnderstand it 3. But the Scripture whereof we now dispute doth only conteyne written word but the belieued and preached word are cōteined in the visibe Church as the necessary and essentiall parts therof seing the one is as it were the life in the hart of the Church the other as it were the speach in her mouth neyther can they euer be separated from her according to that saying and promise of God The words which I haue put in thy month shall not depart from thy mouth nor from the mouth of thy seede nor from the mouth of thy seedes seede from hence forth for euermore 4. Wherefore this argument doth proue the quite cōtrary for seeing that the written word receiueth it pro●… and authority from the rightly belieued and preached word which are the partes of the Church it is necessary that the written word receiue that authority and ●…ity from the Church as that wherin only the word rightly preached and belieued is to be found 5. The second argument If the Church should teach any thing contrary to the Scriptures we were not to belieue the Church Therefore the Scripture doth not rece●…ue that authority from the Church but rather the Church from the Scripture I answere that in the same māner it may be said that if the Scripture should conteine any thing against truth we should not also belieue it if the holy Ghost should vtter and speake any ly we should not belieue him But these conditions are indeed impossible and blasphemous against God wherefore they are not only to be admitted but not euen to be proposed of Christians For it is impossible that the Church should teach any thing contrary to the Scriptures for then the holy Ghost should lye because he should teach one thing by the Church and the contrary by the Scriptures 6. The third argument if the Scripture receiue that authority from the Church then the Church should be aboue the Scripture which seemeth to be very absurd 〈◊〉 That the Church is aboue the Scripture may be vnderstood two wayes First because the Church exceedeth the Scripture in dignity and excellency and in this sense without all doubt the Church is aboue the Scripture for the Scripture is made for the Church and not contrarywise All things sayth the Apostles are done for you Christ dyed for the Church and not for the Scriptures the Church belieueth hopeth loueth and praysed God but the Scripture doth none of these The Church shall reigne and liue euerlastingly with Christ in heauen the Scripture shall perish after the day of Iudgement Lastly the Church conteineth in it the word of God rightly belieued preached and the holy Ghost it selfe all which do farre exceede the written word in excellency and dignity 7. Secondly it may be vnderstood that the Church is aboue the Scripture 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 she may change the Scripture or of Scripture make no Scripture or lastly she may teach somewhat cōtrary to Scri●… or depart from the true sense of Scripture In which sense the Sectaries of this tyme say that we affirme the Church to be aboue the Scripture And thus it is falso that the Church is aboue the Scripture but neyther is there any Catholike which in this sense will

vncertaynty is ingendred in vs if the thing be ambiguously and obscurely proposed how certayne soeuer it be in it selfe 4. The fourth property is the strength immutability therof so that this ground can by no meanes be depraued changed or corrupted For otherwise truth will sometyme perish there will arise some error against fayth 5. The fifth property is the fullnesse sufficiency of those things which are to be belieued that is to say it must conteine all things appertayning to the Catholike fayth seeing that nothing can consist without his ground or foundation 6 The sixt property is the necessity therof that is to say it must necessarily be receiued of all who haue the true fayth and because without it true fayth cannot consist euen as the building cannot continue without the foundation 7. The seauenth property is that it is a manifest signe and token wherby Christians are distinguished from Infidells For he which wanteth the ground and rule of fayth is an infidell but he who retayneth it is a true beleeuer 8. The eight property is that in euery article and conclusion of fayth this principle and ground is virtually conteyned seeing that out of it all things are to be deduced they receiue the certaynty from it 9. The ninth property is that it not only moue Christians to belieue but that it also conuince the infidells For otherwise the way to faith and eternall saluation should not be knowne or open to Infidells 10. The tenth property is that it be conteined expresly in the Apostles Creed wherein all the first groundes of our fayth are conteined for the Apostles after they had receiued the holy Ghost were not so forgetfull that in the Creed or Summary of fayth which they set downe to be belieued of all they would let passe the first and chiefest ground of fayth And thus much of the properties of the ground of fayth CHAP. III. That the Scripture alone is not the ground or rule of fayth THAT the Scripture alone is not the groūd of our fayth we haue already declared by the properties of the ground of fayth before alledged For of those ten properties the Scripture hath ōly one to wit Truth but al the other properties are wāting vnto it The which we clearly demōstrate in this sort First of all a perpetuall duration and continuance is wanting For the holy Scripture begun first vnder the old law in Moyses tyme wheras two thousand yeares before there were both true beleeuers and a Church In like manner in the new law the Apostles began to write some yeares after they had receiued the holy Ghost 2. Secondly the certaynty on our part is wanting seeing that we know not which is the Canonicall Scripture by the Scripture it selfe but by the authority of the Church as we haue proued before and will also more at large declare heereafter 3. Thirdly the foresaid strength immutability is wanting for euery parte of the holy Scripture considered in it owne nature is subiect to many alterations and falsifications For it may be destroied it may be corrupted it may be wrested to contrary senses wherof we haue spoken before 4. Fourthly that fulnesse and sufficiency is wanting because all thinges necessary to saluation are not expresly cōtained in holy Scriptures as we haue also declared before 5. Fiftly the foresaid necessity is wanting For without the holy Scripture there were in the law of Nature for the space of two thousand yeares many true belieuers And also long after Christ yea euen till the tyme of S. Irenaeus that is to say almost two hundred yeares there were many Nations who sincerely belieued in Christ without any holy Scripture as S. Irenaeus himselfe testifieth Lastly albeit Infidels should burne all the Bibles yet the faith of Christians should not therfore perish or be wholy ouerthrowne Therfore our faith doth not necessarily depend of the Scripture 6. Sixtly the seauenth property is also wanting for by the holy Scriptures the true Christians are not distinguished from Infidels because almost all Heretickes do both now receyue the holy Scriptures and in tymes past also receyued them 7. Seauenthly the eight propertie is wanting for there are many pointes of faith which rely vpon the Traditions of the Church only without any expresse Scripture at all as we haue declared before 8. Eightly the ninth property is wanting For Turkes and other Gentills who are only lead by naturall reason are very seldome or neuer conuerted by Scriptures only but we add also some other naturall reasons and perswasions that they may be conuerted For there are many things in holy Scriptures which s●…me opposite to naturall reason as the mysteryes of the Blessed Trinity Incarnation Resurrection of the dead c. 9. Ninthly there wanteth last of all the tenth property for there is nothing extant of the Scripture in the Apostles Creed 10. The holy Scripture indeed is the ground and reason why we belieue many points of faith but not the ground why we belieue all Moreouer neyther is it the first ground of all that we belieue by it For the Scripture it self is proued by some other more generall ground to wit by the authority of the Church VVherfore the Scripture is only a particuler ground and not a generall a mediate and not immediate a secondary and not the first and chiefest rule of faith CHAP. IIII. That the priuate or particuler spirit of euery one is not the ground or rule of faith THAT no priuate spirit of any can be the ground of our Faith is farre more euident by the same properties now alledged For none of these ten properties doth agree with the priuate spirit of euery one that belieueth the which we declare in these arguments 1. First there wanteth the foresaid continuance For there is no priuate or particuler person who hath continued from the beginning of the world or shall endure till the end therof as faith hath continued 2 Secondly there wanteth truth because there is no priuate man to be found which cannot erre and be deceiued for as witnesseth the Apostle Euery man is a lyar 3. Thirdly there wanteth certainty in proposing matters of faith vnto vs because none can be certaine that any priuate person can haue such a spirit yea euē in our Aduersaries iudgmēts For the predestinate only in their opinion haue this spirit euen as they only in their judgments haue the true fayth but the predestinate are knowen to none but only to God according to that of the Apostle God knoweth who are his The which Caluin expressely teacheth 4. Fourthly the foresaid strength and immutability is wanting for that a priuate man hath not that strength and immutability of his doctrine Our Aduersaries themselues confesse and experience teacheth vs that they often tymes change their interpretations of Scriptures and at diuers tymes they teach plaine contraries yea they confesse that this their priuate spirit is not permanēt with them

auncient Fathers as Iudges of all Coutrouersies the which they will neuer do for they dare not deny but that the auncient Fathers were true belieuers why therefore do they attribute vnto themselues that which they so vehemently deny to all the auncient Fathers 12. Moreouer if euery belieuer cannor erre in his iudgement much lesse can a great many such erre and least of all can the Church of all belieuers erre Wherefore whatsoeuer our Aduersaries say they wil be forced to confesse and graunt that the holy Ghost is the Iudge as he remaineth in the whole Church speaking and iudging by the mouth therof and in this manner euen out of our Aduersaries doctrine we gather by a necessary consequence our opinion 13. Lastly that which they affirme that the priuate spirit of euery particuler person is Iudge is therby declared to be false that they themselues acknowledge that there is no priuate man which at some tymes cannot erre in his iudgment but heere we inquire for a Iudge which cannot erre For otherwise in matters of such moment and of which our eternall saluation dependeth we should dangerously be forced to haue recourse to an erroneous Iudge whose iudgement is variable vncertaine deceitfull and often tymes manifestly false 14. But now as concerning the third point that the Church is the iudge of all Controuersies we proue by these arguments First the Church hath all the properties of a fit iudge for first she hath an exact knowledge the holy Ghost shall teach you saith Christ all truth 15. Secondly the Church cannot be corrupted by any giftes or praiers For she is as the Apostle witnesseth the pillar and ground of truth 16. Thirdly the Church heareth speaketh giueth her iudgment and examineth the testimonyes of Scriptures and Fathers as experience it selfe teaeheth vs. 17. Fourthly we are bound to stand to the iudgement of the Church VVho will not heare the Church saith our Lord let him be vnto thee as an heathen and publican 18. Fiftly the Church hath power and authority to punish VVhat will you saith the Apostle that I come vnto you with a rodde or in charity and with the spirit of mildnesse And in another place If I come againe I will not spare And againe that being present I may not deale hardly according to the power which our Lord hath giuen me vnto edification and not vnto destruction 19. Sixtly the Church absolueth byndeth and retayneth sinnes excommunicateth as the holy Scriptures doe expresly testify and our Aduersaries doe also confesse all which actes belong vnto Iudges but the Scripture doth none of them 20. The second argument The holy Scripture expresly affirmeth that the Church doth sometymes iudge I indeed absent in body but present in spirit haue already iudged at present him that hath so done in the name of our Lord Iesus Christ you being gathered togeather and my spirit with the vertue of our Lord Iesus Christ to deliuer such an one to Sathàn And a little after Do not you iudge of them that are within where the Apostle plainly saith that the Pastours of the Church iudge those which are in the Church 21. The third argument is taken from their common practice of the Church aswell in the old as in the new Testament For in the old Testament the chiefe iudgement of all causes was ordeined by God himselfe first in the booke of Numbers and afterward it was confirmed in Deuteronomy in which Iudgment the priestes did sit as Iudges and the chiefe Iudge who did giue his sentence for in all thinges which were doubtfull by the expresse commaundement of God the common people were sent to this Iudgement of the Church and not only to the holy Scriptures or to the priuate spirit of any 22. Moreouer till the comming of Christ this manner of iudging continued in the old Law For of it Christ himselfe sayd Vpon the chaire of Moyses haue sitten the Scribes and the Pharifies All thinges therfore whatsoeuer they shall say to you obserue yee and doe yee this Councell or Iudgment in the yeares following by corrupting the Greeke word the Iewes called Sanhedrin as it were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say an assembly or Councell 23. In like manner in the new Testament when there arose that controuersy about the obseruatiō of the legall ceremonies or customes the Apostles did not send their disciples to the holy Scriptures only or to the priuate spirit of any but they assembled themselues togeather and defined what was to be belieued It seemed good say they to the holy Ghost and vs. For the holy Ghost is as it were the soule of the Church And this Decree of the Apostles S. Paul and S. Barnabas did diuusge and promulgate euery where as appeareth by the same Chapter and the next following where these determinations of the Apostles are called Decrees or according to the Greek Phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say things already iudged wherupon Act. 21. vers 25. the Apostles doe say that iudging and decreeing they had written this 24. In the same manner in the next ages the Arians the Macedoniās the Nestorians Eutichians and other old Heretikes were iudged and condemned by the Catholike Church in the generall Councells holden at Nice Constantinople Calcedon and others 25. Lastly our Aduersaries in their consistories and assemblies doe vsurp●… vnto themselues the authority of iudges neyther doe they referre the iudgment to the Scriptures alone or to the priuate spirit of any 26. Yea Caluin conuinced by these reasons confesleth that the writinges of euery priuate person must be submitted to the iudgmēt of the Church Where he also concludeth thus Neyther therefore sayth he do we condemne or aiminith the authority of the Church neyther do we giue liberty to euery froward fellow to do what ●…sieth I would to God they would shew vs such a Church as the holy Scripture doth paint or describernto vs we would easily agree about the honour thereof Thus he But we will shew in the ensuing Chapters such a Church as the Scripture describeth I wish also we may agree concerning the honour and authority thereof 27. There are two principall arguments of our Aduersaries the first is that the holy Ghost is not tyed vnto men but iudgeth freely in whatsoeuer it pleaseth him therefore he is not tyed vnto the Church But the same argument would proue that there is no certainty in the holy Scriptures For they who wrote the Scriptures were men vnto whome according to our Aduersaries opinion the holy Ghost was not tyed I answere therfore that the holy Ghost is not absolutly bound or tyed vnto men but he is tyed to his owne Promise as also to the words and promises of Christ. For neyther the holy Ghost nor Christ himselfe can deceiue vs in not performing their promises because as the Apostle sayth God cannot lye But God hath promised that he wil be