true Church may some time faile to be visible Scarpe de Iustif Cont. 5. The members of the visible Church The whole visible Church may faile In the vttermost extent may faile yea the whole visible Church as such Vorstius in Antibellarm p. 136. Whence it followeth that the visible Church of Christ not onely in a great parte but euen whole taken in the vttermost extent may for sometime faile from the true faith and be wholy obscured Againe The externall Church of Christ may be obscured and faile More of their like sayings may be seene in my foresaied booke c. 4. THE CONFERENCE Scripture plainly teacheth that the Church of Christ cannot be hidden and biddeth vs to tell and heare her The same say Catholiks Protestants plainly teach that there is not alwaies a visible number of those who piously worshippe Christ that the Church may haue no apparent for me is not alwaies seene with eyes sometimes faileth to be visible that the whole visible Church as such may faile that the whole visible Church taken in her vttermost extent may faile from the faith that God oftentimes will haue no visible Church on earth Which are so opposite to Scripture as Protestants sometimes confesse it See l. 2. c. 30. ART VI. WHETHER THE CHVRCH be infallible in faith SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Isaie 59. vers vltim This is my couenant with them saieth Gods spirit euer in the mouth of the Church our Lord My spirit that is in thee and my words that I haue put in thy mouth shall not departe out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seede and out of the mouth of thy seeds seede saieth our Lord from this present for euer Mathew 16. vers 18. And the gates of hell shall not preuaile Gates of hell preuaile not against her against it Ioan. 16. v. 13. But when the Spirit of trueth cometh he shall teach you all trueth 1. Tim. 3. ver 15. Which is the Church of the liuing God the The pillar of trueth pillar and ground of trueth CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton Controu 4. qu. 2. art vnico The Church in her determinations of faith is euer must certaine and infallible PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker Cont. 2. q. 4. cap. 3. God hath not promised to his The vniuersall Church may erre In necessarie matters The whole Church Church that she should not erre The vniuersall Church may erre The whole Church may erre It is euident that the true Church may for a time erre euen in necessarie matters Yea after Christs ascension and that descent of the Holie Ghost vpon the Apostles it is manifest that the whole Church did erre about the vocation of the Gentils and not onely the common sorte of Christians but euen the very Apostles and Doctors And quaest 5. cap. 17. The Church may for a time erre in some fundamentall points Beza de notis Eccles vol. 3. If some particular Church may erre euen in some principall head of Christian religion and yet leaue not therefore to be a true Church why may we not say the same of all particular Churches taken not onely seuerally but all together for this is the Catholik Church And the margēt The Catholik Church and in fundamentall points The whole Churrh saieth Some errors may creepe into the Church euen in some fundamentall head of saith Daneus Controu 4. l. 3. c. 17. The whole Church all Pastors generally may erre The whole Church may be deceaued slippe and erre Author Resp ad Theses Vademont p. 503. The Catholik And grieuously Church may erre and that sometimes most grieuously The like they teach commonly THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely teacheth that Gods spirit and his word shall neuer departe from the mouth of the Church that the gates of hell shall not preuaile against her that the Holie Ghost teacheth her all trueth that she is the pillar and ground of trueth Catholiks say the same Protestants expressely teach that the Church the true Church the vniuersall Church the whole Church may erre most grieuously and in some fundamentall and necessarie matters that the whole Apostolik Church euen after the descent of the Holie Ghost did erre Which is so repugnant to holie Scripture as sometimes Protestants confesse it See lib. 2. c. 30. ART VII WHETHER THE CHVRCH be to be heard simply in all things SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Matth. 18. v. 17. If he will not heare the Church let him be Church simply to be heard to the as the Heathen and the Publican Luc. 10. v. 16. Who heareth you heareth me and who despiseth you despiseth me CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton Cont. 4. q. 2. art 3. We must simply and absolutely obey the voice of the Church in doctrine of faith PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker Cont. 1. q. 3. c. 3. We must not simply receaue whatsoeuer Not simply to be heard the Church teacheth but whatsoeuer she is commanded of God to teach and proueth by Gods authoritie And q. 5. c. 5. The Church is to be heard not simply in all her sayinges decrees sentences and commandments The same he hath Cont. 2. q. 4. c. 2. and l. 1. de Scriptura c. 11. Bucanus in Inst Theol. loco 43. Must we simply heare the voice of the Church and receaue whatsoeuer she teacheth No. Reineccius to 4. Armat c. 3. We must beleiue the Church in Not simply to be beleiued all things not taken simply and absolutely but relatiuely and with condition as farre as according to Scripture and out of that she proposeth diuine trueth THE CONFERENCE Scripture simply and absolutely biddeth vs to heare the Church and saieth that who heareth her heareth Christ The same say Catholiks Protestants denie that she is simply to be heard or obeyed ART VIII WHETHER TRVETH IN respect of vs do relie vpon the Church SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. 1. Timoth. 3. ver 15. Which is the Church of the liuing God Church the pillar of trueth the pillar and ground of trueth CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton Controu 4. quaest 2. artic vnico The Church according to the ordinarie course is for faithfull men the pillar of all reuealed trueth and for faith it selfe the ground For the faitfull relie vpon the teaching of the Church as an vnmouable pillar PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker Contru 2. q. 4. c. 2. The trueth of faith doth not Not pillar in regard of vs. relie vpon the Church as a foundation no not in regard of vs. Trueth doth not relie vpon the authoritie of the Church Againe If the trueth of faith did relie vpon the authoritie of the Church in respect of vs who then c. Bucer in Disp Cantabrig It is manifest enough that no Sustaineth not trueth Church is to be termed the pillar and ground of trueth as if she did sustaine and conserue trueth Melancthon in locis c. de Signis Eccles to 3. Faith doth not relie wpon the authoritie of the Church THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that the Church is the pillar and
these three but the greater of these is charitie Caluin ib. answereth It is manifest Not in all points that charitie is here saied to be the greater not in all points but as farre as it shal be perpetuall and now is the cheife in conseruing the Church Whitaker l. 9. cont Dur. sect 24. The Not euerie way Apostle saieth that charitie is greater then hope and faith not euerie way but onely in parte Hunnius de Iustif p. 154. preferreth Not simply charitie before faith and hope not vniuersally or simply but in parte And Luther Postilla in Dom. Quinquagesim who doth not acknowledge that Paul speaketh here of the continuance of charitie and of the other guifts not of their dignitie or vertue If we proue that the Church is to be simply heard because Of the Church she is simply called the Pillar and strength of trueth 1. Tim. 3. Academia Nemaus Resp ad Tournon pag. 546. answereth Let the Church be the keeper and interpreter of trueth Not simply not simply and absolutely but in parte Serranus cont Hayum part 3. p. 145. When the Church is called the mother of the faithfull the pillar and strength of trueth those sayings of the authoritie of the Church nether ought nor can be vnderstood simply but in parte or in somesorte Author respons ad Thes Vademont But in parte p. 492. and 523. I answere the Church is called the pillar and strength of trueth not simply but in somesorte And p. 689. God hath not commanded to obey the pastour or the Church simply but in somesorte If we proue that single life is simply good because S. Paul 1. Corinth 7. simply saieth It is good for a man not to Not absolutely touch a woman Reineccius tom 4. Armaturae cap. 23. answereth The Apostle speaketh so not simply and absolutely but in some sorte and respectiuely And ib. addeth that when S. Paul saieth It is good for a man to be so Pauls counsaile is to be taken in some sorte to wit of an incommodious thing Et Whitaker l. 8. cont Dur. sect 86. Paul praiseth virginitie not in it selfe but for some other end If we proue that Virginitie is simply better then marriage because simply it is saied 1. Cor. 7. v. 38. Who ioyneth Not simply but vpon condition his virgin in marriage doth well and who ioyneth not doth better Beza ib. answereth That is prouideth better for his children and that not simply but vpon conditions before expressed by the Apostle In like sorte is that to be vnderstood which is added She is more happie who marrieth not againe Zuinglius also ibid. When he saieth He doth better and soone after He Vpon comparison shal be more happie he meaneth not simply but in comparison If we proue that there may be some perfect men in this life because some are simply so called 1. Cor. 2. Philippen 3. and other where Pareus lib. 2. 2. de Iustificat cap. 7. answereth He attributeth perfection to himselfe and to others In comparisō not absolutely but in comparison of Catechumens And l. 4 c. 11. Most places speake of perfection not absolutely but in respect of In respect the most corrupted world So also Lobechius disput 9. p. 191. If we proue that there are some men iust perfect keepers of the commandements and the like because the Scripture simply calleth some so Pareus l. 4 de Iustificat c. 11 answereth These Saints are praised that they were perfect Not absolutely followed the Lord in all their heart c. not absolutely but because they were sincere worshippers of God And Hunnius de Iustif p. 169. They are termed perfect after their manner that is imperfectly and in comparison of the wicked And Illyricus in Claue part 2. tractat 4. writeth thus Tobie 4. Almes deliuereth from sinne to wit concerning some temporall punishment not touching sinne or eternall punishment In like sorte Redeeme thy sinnes with almes Daniel 4. And Author Gratiani Antiiesuitae part 2. p. 33. The Iesuit obiecteth that Paul 1. Cor. 10. affirmeth the Sacraments of the ould law to haue beene I some sorte types I answere saieth he It is true but in some sorte not simply And p. seq to that Heb. 10. v. 1. The law hauing a shaddow of future goods he thus answereth These things are spoaken comparatiuely of the Apostle not simply Finally Caluin Admonit vlt. p. 830. saieth Because the bread is a Sacrament of the bodie it is the bodie in some sorte Let this therefore be my 13. argument Who beside the foresaied opposition to the expresse words the Scripture in manie and great controuersies are forced to expound that in some sorte or in parte or respectiuely which is spoaken of the Scripture simply and absolutely they contradict the true meaning of the holie Scripture But Protestants doe so Therefore c. CHAPTER XIV THAT PROTESTANTS WILL NOT expound there sayings of the Scripture of that time whereof it speaketh MY fourtenth argument shal be taken from that Protestants are forced to expound the sayings of Scripture of a different time from that of which Scripture speaketh and that in manie and great matters For if we proue that at the very time of the institution Of the Eucharist Not is shed but shalle of the Eucharist Christs bodie was giuen and broken his blood shed for vs because three Euangelists and Saint Paul in Greek relating Christs words vse the participle of the present tense as also doth S. Luke in the vulgare Latin text neuerthelesse Protestants will not vnderstand Christs words of the time then present but onely of the time thē to come as we shewed l. 1. c. 11. art 5. If we proue that those that are iustified are now in herently Of iustification lust by those words Rom. 8. v. 29. Whome he hath foreknowne he hath also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Sonne 1. Cor. 15. v. 49. As we haue borne the Conformable not now his hereafter image of the earthlie let vs also beare the image of the heauenlie Pareus l. 2. de Iustif c. 3. answereth We graunt all this of the state to come when we shall be fully conformable to the image of Christ by iustice and glorie keeping the proportion of the head and members but it maketh nothing for our aduersarie for the present state If we proue that in this life our sinnes are taken from vs Of Sinnes because the Scripture saieth that God taketh away cleanseth blotteth out sinne Pareus l. cit c. 7. answereth The Sinnes taken away not now but hereafter phrases of Scripture speake of sanctification of the Church now indeed begun but hereafter to be perfected by which the filth of sinne now beginneth by the vertue of Christs spirit to be taken away by the rootes to be blotted out cleansed and purged out of our flesh and at length shal be quite taken away and blotted out
properly Bishops THE CONFERENCE The Scripture expressely saieth that Iudas had the office of a Bishop which an other Apostle tooke The same say Catholiks The Protestants say that Iudas was no Bishop THE SVMME OF THIS CHAPTER OF SAINT Peter and the Apostles Out of that which hath beene rehearsed in this chapter it clearly appeareth that the Protestāts in an other māner describe S. Peter and the Apostles thē the holie Scripture and Catholiks doe For the Scripture and Catholiks teach that S. Peter was first of the Apostles that he was the rock on which Christ built his Church that he had the keyes of the kingdome of heauen that his faith did not faile All which Protestants denie Besides the Scripture and Catholiks say that the Apostles were foundations of the Church were simply to heard without examining their doctrine were sufficient witnesses of trueth learnt diuers things of the holie Ghost All which are denied by Prorestants Moreouer the Scripture and Catholiks say that Iudas was truely a disciple and Apostle of Christ and also a Bishop which Protestants in like manner denie Wherefore Protestants steale from S. Peter his honour that he is the first of the Apostles his authoritie that he is the rock of the Church and his power of the keyes and stedfastnesse of faith And frō the rest of the Apostles they steale that they were foundations of the Church simply to be hearde sufficient witnesses of truth and that they learnt any thing of the holie Ghost CHAPTER VI. OF PASTORS OF THE CHVRCH ART I. WHETHER THERE BE ALwaies pastors of the Church SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. HIEREMIE 33. v. 21. Thus saieth the Lord If my Pastours alwaies couenant with the day can be made voide and my couenant with the night that there be no day and night in their time also my couenant may be made voide with Dauid my seruant that there be not of him a sonne to reigne in his throne and leuites and preists my ministers Ephes 4. v. 12. And he gaue Pastours and Doctours to the consummation of the saintes vnto the worke of the ministeric vnto the edifying of the bodie of Christ vntill we meete all into the vnitie of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton in 1. Cor. 15. v. 15. Impious Caluin doth bouldly and often times say that Pastours Doctours Prelats Bishops Maisters of Churches all vniuersally for manie ages haue wholy straied from the Christian trueth and beene seducers PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Luther in psal 129. to 3. The Church vnder Antichrist had no true ministerie Caluin de vera reform p. 322. Not without cause we auouch Not alwaies that for some ages the Church was so torne and scattered that it was destitute of true Pastours And p. 322. I graunt indeed that it can neuer come to passe that the Church perish but when they referre that to Pastours which is promised of the perpetuall continuance of the Church therein they are much deceaued Beza de notis Eccles vol. 3. Forsooth it fell out that the lawfull order was then wholy abolished in the Church as it is manifest that it hath beene now for some ages not so much being left as the smalleste shadow of the cheifest partes of ecclesiasticall vocation Sadeel ad Art abiurat pag. 533. It is false that the externall ministerie must be perpetuall Daneus Controu 3. p. 426. The Church eftsones hath no man Postour And Controu 4. p. 757. The true Church hath ofte wanted Prelats Lukbertus l. 5 de Eccles cap. 5. We say that for some short time the Church may be depriued of Pastours CONFERENCE OF THE FORESAIED WORDS Scripture expressely saieth that there shal be Pastours as long as there shal be day and night that Pastours are giuen vntill we meete all in one faith The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that the Church may be depriued of Pastours that Pastours may perish that the ministerie must not be perpetuall that the Church sometime had no true ministerie was for some ages destitute of true Pastors that lawfull order was for some ages quite abolished in the Church not so much as the slēderest shadow of the chiefest partes of ecclesiasticall vocation being left Which are so plaine against Scripture as sometimes Protestants confesse it See l. 2. c. 30. ART II. WHETHER AVTHORITIE of gouerning the Church be in the Pastours them selues SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Matth. 16. v. 18. seq Thou art Peter c. And to thee I will giue Pastours haue authoritie to gouerne the keyes of the kingdome of heauen Actes 20. v. 28. The Holie Ghost hath placed you Bishops to rule the Church of God 1. Cor. 4. v. 21. What will you In a rodde that I come to you or in charitie and the spirit of mildnesse 2. Cor. 13. v. 10. These things I write absente that being present I may not deale hardly according to the power which the Lord hath giuen me And c. 10. v. 6. Hauing in readinesse to reuenge all disobedience 2. Tim. 1. v. 11. I am appointed a preacher and Apostle and Maister of the Gentils Hebrews 13. vers 17. Obey your Prelats and be subiect to them CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton in Triplicat cont Whitaker c. 13. We see that Paul putteth the authoritie in the Prelats PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker l. 1. de Script c. 13. sect 12. The authoritie is not Authoritie is not in the Pastours in the Prelats but in the worde for whose administration the Prelats do serue Againe I acknowledge no ruling which the Church hath All the authoritie is in God and in his word the Church hath nothing but mere ministerie Spalatensis l. 5. de Repub c. 2. n. 40. Church gouernours are most like to Phisitiās The Phisitian appointeth holesome things and forbiddeth vnholesome prescribeth diete c. but hath no They haue no iurisdiction iurisdiction or cōmand ouer the sick As it is the Phisitians office to gouerne the sick that is without iurisdiction So it is the office of the ecclesiasticall rectors to gouerne the Church that is the faithfull Caluin 4. Instit c. 8. § 2. We must remember that what authoritie or dignitie the Holie Ghost in the Scripture doth giue to Preists or Prophets or Apostles or Successours of Apostles all that is giuen not properly to the men themselues but to the ministerie whereof they are officers or to speake brefly to the word whose ministerie is committed to them The same he hath in Ioan. 16. v. 8. in Math. 20. v. 25. and in Iacob 4. v. 12. Beza in Math. 20. v. 25. What then will you say Haue the No power at all ouer consciences Ministers of the word of God no power at all None truely they no not ouer cōsciences for instructiō whereof they are appointed But they are legats of Christ to say and doe in his name sacred not ciuill matters who alone hath all right of commanding and
ground of trueth The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that the Church doth not sustaine or conserue the trueth that faith relieth not vpon her authoritie that trueth doth not relie vpon her authoritie as a foundation no not in regard or respect of vs. THE SVMME OF THIS CHAPTER OF the Church What hath beene repeated in this Chapter doth make manifest that Protestants describe vnto vs a Church quite different from that which the holie Scripture and Catholikes propose For the Scripture and Catholiks teach that the Church is but one Protestants say there are twoe Churches They say she containeth both badde and reprobates that she endureth for euer is alwaies visible infallible in faith is simply in all things to be heard and is the pillar of faith touching vs All which points Protestants denie They also make manifest that Protestants steale from the Church a great parte of her to wit the badde and reprobate faithfull and manie of her chiefe properties namely vnitie perpetuitie continuall visibilitie infallibilitie and our dependencie vpon her in beleife And thus much of the Church Now of Temples or materiall Churches CHAPTER VIII OF TEMPLES OR MATERIALL CHVRCHES ART I. WHETHER THE CHVRCHES be also for priuat praier SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. KINGS 3. cap. 8. ver 41. Moreouer also the stranger Place of praier for a straÌ„ger which is not of thy people Israel when he shall come from a farre countrie for thy name and shall pray in this place thou shalt heare in heauen in the firmament of thy habitation and shalt do all things for which the stranger shall inuocate thee 2. Paralipomen 6. vers 21. Whosoeuer shall pray in this For whomsoeuer place heare out of thy habitation that is from the heauens and be propitious Mathew 21. vers 13. It is written my house shal be called a house of praier Luc. 2. v 37. Who departed not from the temple by fastings For S. Anne and praiers seruing night and day c. 24. v. 53. And they were alwaies in the Temple praising and blessing God CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME Cardin. Bellarm. lib. 3. de Santis cap. 4. The Churches of Christians are rightly instituted for to pray also priuate praiers PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Tindal in Fox Actes 1610. pag. 1138. Churches are for preaching For preaching onely onely And Fox addeth This article containeth nether errour nor honestie Vorstius in Antibellarm p. 327. Nether is this a lawfull end Not for priuat praier of Churches that the faithfull pray priuaty in them Luther in Festo Dedicat. Templi fol. 447. The people which beleiue in Christ are all iust and subiect to no law especially Not dedicated to praier that pertaineth to ceremonies of temples And therefore now amongst them there is no temple dedicated to praier And hereupon Protestants in Confes Heluet. c. 23. bidde them beware that they wearie not the people with to long praier And in Confess Argentinen cap. 21. They detest our long paier as also doth Caluin in Matth. 6. ver 7. and finally in their Synod at Dordrach art 46. they define that publik euening praiers are not to be brought in where they are not in vse and to be taken away where they are So well these men loue praiers in Churches THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that Gods Church is the house of praier for all people a place of praier where the stranger may make his praier and be heard that Anna night and day praied in the temple that the Apostles were alwaies in the temple praising God The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that Churches are onely for preaching that is no lawfull end of Churches to pray priuatly in them that Christians haue no temple dedicated to praier and forbidde long and euening praier in Churches ART II. WHETHER CHVRCHES BE to be adorned SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Exod. 35. is described the wonderfull adorning of the tabernacle Churches are to be adorned made by Gods commandment and 3. Reg. 6. the most rich ornaments of the temple made by Salomon Psalme 25. v. 8. I haue loued the beautie of thy house Marc. 14. v. 15. Say to the maister of the house that the Maister saieth where is my refectorie where I may eate my Paske with my disciples And he will shew you a great chamber adorned and there prepare for vs. CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton in Ioan. 12. v. 3. Sumptuous dâ—cking and honorable adorning when they are done in the honour of God and for his worshippe ether in the adorning or magnifencie of Churches or in solemne administration of Sacraments doe please God PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Perkins in Problemate c. de ornatu temploruÌ„ The errour Not to be adorned of adorning temples began to be strange in Constantins time and the Fathers theÌ„ being caried away with the custome do exact the adorning of temples Caluin in Math. 26. v. 11 Let vs not deuise sumptuous worshippes of God with the Papists In Ioan. 12. v. 6. Surely God careth not for externall pompe wherefore they are preposterous interpreters who out of Christs answere do infer that costly and magnificall worshipps do please God Tigurini apud Hospin part 2. Hist fol. 24. The ornaments of Churches belonge not to the true worshippe of God Vorstius in Antibellarm p. 327. It is not onely superfluous but also vaine and superstitious and in parte ethnicall also and Iewish to make great and vnprofitable expenses in adorning Churches as euerie where vseth to be done in Poperie For that theatricall brauerie is contrarie to the simplicitie of Christian religion THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely teacheth that God himselfe comcommanded the tabernacle to be adorned that Salomon by his instinct adorned the temple that Dauid loued the beautie of Gods house that Christ made choice of a great and adorned chamber wherein he should celebrate the Eucharist The same say Catholiks ProtestaÌ„ts expressely say that the adorning of Churches is an errour superfluous vaine superstitious ethnicall and Iudaicall and contrarie to Christian religion that magnificall and costlie worships please not God ART III. WHETHER IT BE LAWEFVLL to put the Images of Angels or Saintes in Churches SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Exod. 25. v. 18. God thus commandeth Two Cherubins Images in the Temple also thou shalt make of beaten gould on both sides of the Oracle And vers 22. And I will speake to thee ouer the Propitiatorie and from the middest of the two Cherubins which shal be vpon the arke of testimonie all things which I will coÌ„mand the children of Israel by thee 3. Reg. 6. vers 23. And he Salomon made in the Oracle two Cherubs of oliue trees of ten cubits in height And v. 27. And he put the Cherubs in the middest of the inner temple CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME Councel of Trent Session 25. c. de Inuocat The Images of Christ and other Saintes
all men because it is saied 1. Tim. 2. v. 6. One Mediator of God and men the man Iesus Christ they limite this to the elect faithfull Beza Epist 28. It is false that Christ is mediator also of the infidels In like sorte Hunnius de Iustif pag. 179. restraineth that saying Hebr. 5. ver 9. He was made to all that obey him cause of eternall saluation to obedience in faith If we proue that vnwritten traditions of faith are to be Touching Traditions beleiued because S. Paul saieth without limitation 2. Thessal 2. ver 15. Stand and hould the traditions which you haue learned whether it be by word or by our epistle they limite this to onely traditions of rites or ceremonies Whitaker Contr. 1. q. 6. cap. 10. Other Protestantes thinke that Paul speaketh of certaine externall matters and rites of no great moment Academia Nemaus Resp ad Tournon pag. 554. By the word Tradition in the Apostles writings is meant ether the application and right handling of doctrine or the appointing of rites and discipline If we proue that Christ committed all his sheepe to S. Touching S. Peter Peter because without anie limitation he saieth to him Ioan. 21. v. 17. Feed my sheepe Whitaker Cont. 1. q. 5. cap. 5. answereth Christ doth not say to Peter Feed all my sheepe but speaketh indefinitely And Beza ib. in vers 15. Must Gods word be thus profaned Surely Christ did not adde All and the difference betwixt vniuersall and indefinite propositions is well knowne As if Protestants did not as well limitate vniuersall propositions as indefinite as appeared in the former chapter Besides Daneus Contr. 3. p. 127. faithfull An indefinite What Protest say of an indefinite proposition proposition is equiualent to an vniuersall And Caluin in 1. Ioan. 3. v. 3. An indefinite speach is as much as an vniuâ—â—sall And 4. Instit c. 17. § 29. It is our parte whatsoeuer is absolutely spoake of Christ so to embrace as without exception that take place with vs which he would say If we proue that the Church is alwaies famous and visible Touching the Church because Isaie c. 2. v. 2. saieth without limitation of time And in the latter dayes the mountaine of the house of our Lord shall be prepared in the top of mountaines and shal be eleuated aboue the litle hilles and all nations shall flow vnto it Et c. 61. ver 9. And they shall know their seed in the Gentils and their budde in the middest of peoples And Miche 4. v. 8. And the remanent of Iacob shall be in the Gentils in the middest of manie peoples as a Lion amoÌ„g the beasts of the forest Whitaker Contr. 2. q. 2. c. 2. answereth The Prophets foretell that no kingdome shal be so glorious no cittie so ample no Empire so large as the Church shal be in the times of the Messias But we neuer read that the Lord hath promised that this maiestie and glorie of the Church shal be constant and perpetuall Et Morton in Apolog. part 1. l. 1. c. 13. The league is indeed perpetuall but this so admirable successe is not alwaies so vniuersall but in a manner peculiar to the age of the Apostles If we proue that the Pastors of the Church be alwaies visible because Christ saieth of them Math. 5. v. 15. A cittie cannot be hid situated vpon a mountaine Whitaker loc cit answereth Albeit Christ say that godlie Doctors and Pastors shall not be obscure nor escape the sight of men yet he saieth not that there shal be alwaies such Doctors which may be as visible as mountaines If we proue that the Church is the pillar of all trueth of faith because S. Paul 1. Timoth. 3. ver 15. without anie limitation calleth her the pillar and strength of trueth Whitake Contr. 2. q. 4. c. 2. answereth In this place is meant not simply all trueth but onely necessarie trueth And Vorstius in Antibel p. 143. The Apostle speaketh not of euerie trueth that howsoeuer pertaineth to religion but onely of holesome trueth or which is necessarie to saluation and that conditionally also to wit so long as she shall remayne the true Church of Christ If we proue that the Church is alwaies infallible in faith because without limitation to anie time she is called loc cit The pillar and strength of trueth P. Martyr in locis clas 4. c. 4. § 21. saieth I graunt She is indeed the pillar of trueth but not alwaies but when she relieth vpon the word of God Confessio Heluet. c. 17. She erreth not as long as she relieth vpon the rock Christ and the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles Daneus Contr. 4. p. 717. The place of Paul speaketh of the visible Church which on earth is the keeper of heauenlie doctrine so long as she is true Bullinger Dec 4. Serm. 5. The Church erreth not so long as she heareth the voice of her Spouse and Pastor Herbrandus in Compend loc de Eccles She erreth not so long as she houldeth and followeth the word of God Of we proue that the Church is to be heard simply in all things because our Sauiour without anielimitation saieth Math. 18. v. 19. If he will not heare the Church let him be to thee as an Ethnik and Publican Whitaker lib. 1. de Scriptura c. 13. sect 1. answereth The Sonne of God himselfe commanded to heare the voice of the Church but not preaching anie thing but Scripture Herbrand loc cit saieth the Church is to be heard as long as she preacheth heauenlie and incorrupt doctrine Moulins in his Buckler p. 84. limitateth this speach of Christ to quarrels betwixt particular men and not to questions of religion The like saied Feild l. 4. de Eccles c. 4. and others If we proue that the Church in teaching cannot erre because Isaias saieth c. 59. v. 21. This is my couenant with them saieth our Lord My spirit is in thee and my words which I haue put in thy mouth shall not departe out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seed and out of the mouth of thy seeds seed saieth our Lord from this present for euer Whitaker libr. 1. de Scriptura cap. 11. sect vlt. answereth This promise is not made to the teaching Church but to the whole Church that is to the elect If we proue that the militant Church is perpetuall because the Scripture saieth that Christs kingdome shal be perpetuall Daneus Contr. 4. p. 718. answereth All these places and the like properly pertaine to that Church which God shall gather in heauen not on earth If we proue that the visible Church is alwaies the true Church because she is called 1. Timoth 3. the pillar of trueth Daneus loc cit pag. 721. answereth Let him know that the visible Church then and so long is saied to be the true Church as long as the voice of heauenlie and Euangelicall trueth soundeth in her If we proue that the visible Church cannot
from euill to good because it is saied absolutely Zacharie 1. ver 3. Conuert to me saieth the Lord of hostes and I will conuert to you they limitate this onely to outward conuersion Peter Martyr in Roman 11. The Prophet spoake not of inward iustification but of outward conuersion to good workes If we proue that we are not infallibly certaine of forgiuenesse Touching Iustification of sinnes or eternall punishment because it is saied absolutely Ioel. 2. v. 14. Who knoweth if he God will conuert and forgiue and the like is saied Ion. 3. v. 9. Kemnice in locis part 2. tit de Argum. limitateth this to forgiuenesse of temporall punishment and saieth All the speach of the Prophet tendeth to that he treateth of remission of temporall punishment In like sorte he limitateth manie other places of Scripture in which forgiuenesse is attributed to workes onely to forgiuenesse of temporall punishment That also of Tobie cap. 4. Almes deliuereth from death he restraineth to temporall death And in like manner promises made to good workes he limitateth to certaine blessings in this world or in the next but will not haue them extended to eternall life And finally wheresoeuer in the Scripture anie man praieth God to iudge or reward him according to his iustice he limitateth that to the iustice of his cause or quarell with other men If we proue that euerlasting happines is giuen for good Touching eternall life workes because S. Iames saieth cap. 1. ver 25. He that hath remained in it not made a forgetfull hearer but a doer of the worke this man shal be blessed in his deed they limitate this to blessednes in this life Schlusselburg to 8. Catal. Haeret. p. 497. thus answereth to this place To be blessed is not alwaies taken in holie writ for eternall saluation but for blessednes in this life If we proue that we must not onely beleiue but also keepe the law because Christ saieth Math. 5. ver 18. I am not come to break the law but to fulfill Caluin ibid. answereth Here is treated of doctrine not of life Touching doctrine we must not imagin anie abrogation of the law by the coming of Christ And v. 19. where is saied One iot or one tittle shall not passe of the law till all be fulfilled Caluin ibid. saieth I answere that word be done or fulfilled is not referred to mens liues but to the solide trueth of doctrine If we proue that our consciences are obliged by the particular Touching laws of men iust lawes of Princes because it is absolutely saied Rom. 3. v. 2. He that resisteth power resisteth the ordinance of of God and v. 5. Be subiect of necessitie not onely for wrath but also for conscience sake they limitate these words to the power of Magistrates in generall Daneus Contr. 5. p. 1127. To obey the Magistrate in generall is a matter of conscience but to obey this or that law of the Magistrate wholy and in all points we are not bound in conscience And Whitaker libr. 8. cont Dureum sect vlt. We must obey the Magistrate in generall for conscience sake because by a generall precept we are commanded to obey the Magistrate but particular lawes of Magistrates haue no command ouer our consciences In like sorte Caluin 4. Instit c. 10. § 5. Wherefore thus in forme I frame my ninth argument who not onely in so manie and so great matters do contradict such words of holie Scripture and in such sense as we haue seene but also take so much vpon them as limitate and restraine so manie and so weightie sentences of Scripture they are to be thought to gayne say the right sense of Scripture But Protestants do so Therefore c. CHAPTER X. THAT PROTESTANTS CHANGE manie absolute Propositions of Scripture into conditionals THE tenth argument shal be taken from that Protestants are forced to change manie and weightie absolute Propositions of Scripture into conditionals For if we proue that absolutely God will not the death Touching God of a sinner but rather his life and conuersion because he absolutely saieth Ezechiel 18. and 33. I will not the death of a sinner but rather that he be conuerted and liue Caluin l. de Praedestinat pag. 706. answereth Whereas the Prophets speach exhorteth to pennace no maruaile if God say he will haue all to be saued but the mutuall relation betwene threats and promises sheweth that such kind of speaches are conditionall So the promises which inuite all to saluation shew not what simply and precisely God hath decreed in his secret counsaile but what he is readie to doe to all that are brought to faith and pennance Touching the Church if we proue that the gates of Touching the Church hell shall not preuaile against her because Christ doth absolutely so promise Math. 16. ver 16. Besnagus l. de statu Eccles cap. 8. and others adde this condition If she forsake not her dutie and the word of God If we proue that simply we must heare the Pastors of the Church because Christ saieth Luk. 10. ver 16. He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me Caluin ib. addeth this condition If the Church do faithfully her dutie If we proue that the Church is simply infallible because 1. Timoth. 3. she is simply called the pillar and strength of trueth Vallada in Apol. cont Episcop Lusonensem cap. 20. answereth The visible Church cannot be the pillar of trueth but as it is grounded vpon the doctrine of the Apostles Vorstius in Antibell pag. 143. The Apostle speaketh conditionally to wit as long as the Church perseuereth to be the Church of Christ Academia Nemaus resp ad Tournon p. 546. Let it be a true and faithfull Church if it discerne trueth from falsitie by vndoubted and authenticall trueth If we proue that the Church is simply to be heard because Christ saieth Math. 18. ver 17. If he heare not the Church let him be to thee as an Ethnick and Publican White in his way p. 78. answereth The sense is that we must obediently heare the Church and obey her not simply in all things but conditionally as long as she speaketh agreably to Gods word And Author respons ad Theses Vademont pag. 688. The answere is easie and readie As long as the Church teacheth the word of God she is to be heard but her authoritie is none when she seperateth her selfe from Gods word And when Bellarmin had brought manie places of Scripture to proue that the Church cannot faile Vorstius libr. cit pag. answereth In them certaine conditionall promises are proposed vnto vs by which eternall saluation and securitie against Satan death c. is promised of God to all and euerie faithfull to wit as farre forth and as long as they shal be such or perseuer in true faith If we proue that there are some doers of the law as Touching Gods law well as there are hearers because Saint Paul saieth absolutely Rom. 2.
be in it selfe cleare So Pareus in Gal. 2. lect 25. The Ghospell teacheth good works not of it selfe but borroweth the doctrine of workes from the law So the some Pareus Colleg. Theol. 9. disput 39. The Thessalonians tooke not vpon them to iudge or to debate whether Gods trueth were to be admitted but onely examined Pauls doctrine according to the touchestone of Scripture So Caluin act 17. vers 13. As if Paules doctrine and Gods trueth were not all one The Ghospell in a most large sense is taken for the whole doctrine of Christ and the Apostles Largely for the doctrine both of grace and faith and of repentance and new obedience but straitely and properly for the doctrine of grace by faith So Pareus l. 4. de Iustif c. 3. Finally the Scripture speaketh as the law not as the Ghospell by which distinction they delude manie places of Scripture as is to be seene in Luther de seru arbit to 2. f. 449. Caluin in Math. 19. vers 17. Pareus l. 4. de Iustif cap. 2. Schlusselb to 8. Catal. p. 441. to 2. p. 270. Of S. Peter and the Apostles they haue inuented these Of the Apostles new distinctions S. Peter is first of the Apostles in order not in iurisdiction The Apostles are foundations of the Church as those that found the Church not as those on which it is founded or as Iunius spaketh Cont. 3. l. 1. c. 10. The Church is founded vpon Peter as vpon a pillar not as on a foundation Of Pastors they distinguish That authoritie is in the Of Pastors word which they preach not in themselues That they gouerne the visible Church but not the Catholike That in case of necessitie they are made without mission but not otherwise See l. 1. c. 7. Of the Church they haue brought in these new distinctions Of the Church That for professiō of faith there is one Church visible an other inuisible That she is infallible in fundamentall points but not in others That she is to be heard when she preacheth Scripture but not otherwise That she is the pillar to which trueth is fastened not on which it relieth So saieth Riuet Tractat. 1. sec 39. Or as Andrews writeth in Resp ad Apol. Bellar. c. 14. She is so the pillar of trueth as that she relieth vpon trueth not trueth vpon her That the Church is necessarie to beleiue the Scriptures not to know them So whitaker lib. 3. de Script 396. That the Church is the staye and pillar of trueth not the foundation of trueth Heilbruner in Colloq Ratisb sess 7. Of the Sacraments they distinguish in this sorte They iustifie as signes or seales not as causes They are receiued Of Sacramēts whole and intire of the good but not of the badde that baptisme is the lauer of regeneration passiuely not actiuely So Daneus Contr. 2. c. 12. That baptisme is but one taken wholy but is twoe taken by partes So Beza part Resp ad Acta p. 44. That the Church is cleansed significatiuely by the baptisme of water but really by the baptisme of the spirit So Beza ib. p. 115. or as Polanus saieth in Disp priu p. 37. Sinnes are saied to be blotted out by baptisme not properly but in a figuratiue sense The same Beza in Hutter in Analysi p. 54. saieth I neuer simply saied that baptisme was the obsignation of regeneration in children but of adoption Perkins in Galat. 3. By baptisme actuall guilt is taken away but not potentiall Pareus in Gal. 2. lect 23. Absolutely we are all borne sinners but in regard of the couenant we are borne Christians or Gods confederats Of the Eucharist they haue these distinctions That it Of the Eucharist is the symbolicall bodie of Christ but not his true bodie That Christ his flesh killed doth profit vs but not eaten That it is exhibited in the Supper according to the vertue thereof not according to the substance That when S. Paul saieth 1. Cor. 11. He eateth iudgement to himselfe he meaneth not of damnation but of correction So wolfius in Schusselb l. 1. Theol. art 25. In like sorte they say that Preists forgiue sinne indirectly not directly directly as it is an offense of the Church indirectly as it an offense of God So Spalata l. 5. de Repub. c. 12. Of faith they make these distinctions That one is Catholike Of Faith or vniuersall or historicall an other speciall Againe that one is abstract naked simple an other concrete compounded incarnate So Luther in Gal. 3. to 5. That there is one habituall and actuall of men an other potentiall and inclinatiue of infants So Pareus l. 3. de Iustif c. 14. or as Polanus saieth part 2. thes p. 651. Infants haue not altogether the same faith that men haue yet they haue some thing proportionable Piscator in Thesibus l. 2. pag. 252. Adam before his fall had not iustifying faith or as Pareus writeth l. 1. de Amiss Grat. c. 7. Adam lost faith of the commandement but not faith of the promise Bullinger dec 5. serm 7. Infants are faithfull by the imputation of God Agayne They are baptized in their owne faith to wit which God imputeth to them Zanchius in Supplicat to 7. Manie reprobates are endued with a certaine faith much like to the faith of the elect but not with the same Perkins in Cathol 4. c. 5. There is one generall and Catholike faith wherewith a man beleiueth the articles of faith to be true and an other iustifying or particular faith Thus they distinguish of faith And in like sorte they distinguish of the iustification of faith to wit that it iustifieth relatiuely or correlatiuely not absolutely and as an instrument not as it is a worke Bucanus in Institit loc 3. Faith is saied to be imputed to iustice not properly but relatiuely Polan part 2. thes pag. 197. We are iustefied by faith not properly but relatiuely Reineccius tom 4. Armat cap. 21. Faith iustifieth as well absolutely as considered relatiuely Pareus in Galat. 3. lection 32. Faith is imputed to iustice relatiuely Agayne Faith iustifieth organically And in Colleg. Theol. 2. disp 10. We are saied to be iustified by faith but not formerly nor meritoriously but organically Touching the losse of faith they thus distinguish Zanchius in Supplication citat The elect loose faith in parte but not wholy Beza in Prefat 2. part respons ad Acta Faith sometimes sleepeth sometimes seemeth to be quite lost but yet is not lost Agayne There is a lethargie of faith but no losse The feeling or vse of faith is lost for a time but not faith it selfe Some reprobates do beleiue with a generall and historicall faith common to the Diuels themselues Tilenus in Syntagm capit 43. The faithfull become sometimes outliers but not runawaies or forsakers In like sorte they say that faith without works at the time of iustification is not dead but at other times if it be without workes it is dead Likewise Reineccius
Church to the den of theues from the assured path of saluation to the open way of damnation Finally I aduertise the Reader that if at anie time I vse anie sharp words against Protestants I intend them onely against their teachers and leaders yet vse I the common name of Protestants that the rest may know that the crimes which I obiect vnto them proceed of their doctrin and thereby flie and reiect it lest they become partakers of the crimes I shew them the gulfe of impietie into which their guides doe lead them let them not be offended with me that I set before their eyes the impietie of the doctrin which they are tought but let them be angrie with their teachers who vnder the most false pretense of Scripture and Gods word haue thaught them such impious doctrin and so contrarie to Gods words And I hartely pray God and euer shal that he open their eyes that they may see the most imminent and greiuous danger wherein they stand and auoide it lighten with his true light that zeale which they haue to his word Rom. 10. lest they perish for euer with them who had zeale but not according to knowledge Whether Catholiks or Protestants be the true owners of the holie Scripture FIRST CHAPTER BECAVSE this question of the true owners How important this question is of the holie Scripture is of such moment as by it may be decided all controuersies as shall hereafter appeare and withall the decision thereof is so easie and cleare as euerie one may perceaue it and notwithstanding hath not as yet to my knowledge beene particularly handled of anie albeit as we shall see out of Tertullian it should haue beene handled before anie question of Scripture I will begin first with it And because Protestants auouch them selues to be the true owners of the Scripture I need not proue to them that ether Catholiks or they are the true owners thereof which the very question doth suppose but it will suffice against them that I shew that according to all reason Catholiks are to be iudged the true owners of Scripture rather then they The first proofe hereof I will take from the actuall The first title for Cathol actual possession possession of the Scripture in which Catholiks peacably were when Luther and the Protestants first began to chalenge the Scripture for theirs For reason teacheth vs to iudge the Possessor of anie thing to be the true owner of the same and possession to be a sufficient title of houlding it vnles the contrarie be manifestly proued and conuinced as we see dayly in lands and temporall goods and otherewise the dominion of things would be vncertaine amongst men Wherevpon the law teacheth the Possessor to plead possession as a sufficient title and to say possideo quia possideo I possesse because I possesse But Protestants can not manifestly disproue no nor yet colourably impugne the right of the Catholiks possession of the holie Scripture as shall hereafter appeare Therefore according to all reason Catholiks vpon this title of their possession are to be iudged true owners of the Scripture The second proof I will take from the Catholiks vndoubted Second title peacable possession possession thereof and vnquestioned by Protestants for manie ages That Protestants did not for manie ages call the Catholiks possessions of the Scripture into question is manifest by the manie and plaine confessions of Protestants that their Church was inuisible before Luther for manie ages which I haue related in my second booke of the Author of the Protestant Church c. 4. And reason teacheth vs to accounte him the true owner of a thing who without all question or clame of anie hath hould it peacably for manie ages together Wherevpon the law alloweth prescription of certaine yeares after which time expired it permitteth not the possession to be called in question Besides it is no way likelie that the true Church of God would suffer her self to be bereaued of so heauenlie a treasure as is the holie Scripture and yet not once in anie corner of the world for manie ages crie after the theefe or chalenge her treasure which she did see was held of others Will men euerie day venture their liues for sauing or recouering a little land or goods and would not the Church of God the onely true owner of the Scripture for manie ages once open her mouth to chalenge so heauenlie a treasure especially the Scripture being as Protestants teach the onely Martyr in disput oxon p. 143. Pareus Coll. Theol. 3. disp 2. externall infallible meane to attayne faith and as necessarie to the saluation of the Church as meate is to the life of man what care had the Church offo great a treasure left vnto here by Christ what account made she of faith and saluation if for manie ages she would not so much as chalenge the onely externall infallible and necessarie means to obtayne them Would the primitiue Church suffer so manie torments and cruell death as we read in the Ecclesiastical Historie rather then loose the holie Scriptures which the Heathens would haue taken from her and would she afterward suffer Papists to take it from her without muttering one word or laying clame to it for manie ages together Moreouer how had she faith how obtained she saluation if for maine ages she lost the onely externall infallible and necessarie meanes to obtayne them The third proof is that the Catholiks possession of the Scripture is farre more ancient then the Protestāts possession Third title ancientest possession thereof For euident it is that that Christian Church which is the first and ancientest possessor of the holie Scripture is the onely true owner of the same because the Apostles and Euangelists left their writings first and Qui prior est tempore potior est iure Reg. iuris onely to the true Church and gaue her the testament and last will of Christ her sponse so that the true Christrian Church had the Scripture before anie false Christian Church had it and likewise certaine it is that she neuer lost it since it was deliuered vnto her but as she is the pillar of truth so she hath faithfully kept this heauenly truth deliuered vnto her in writing and consequently is ancienter possessor of the Scripture then anie false Christian Church can be And this reason the ancient Christians vsed against Heretiks as appeareth by these words of Tertullian lib. de Praescript c. 37. It is my possession I possesse it of ould I possesse it first I am the herie of the Apostles And lib. 4. cont Mart. c. 4. I say my Bible is true Marcion saieth His. I say Marcions Bible is corrupted Marcion saieth Mine is corrupted what shall end our controuersie but order of time giuing authoritie to that which is found to be ancienter and reiecting that which is later For in that falsitie is a corruption of trueth trueth must needs be before falsitie
dead of praier to the dead of forbiddacne of marriage and other such like doctrines This consent we denie to be a note of the Church for in all these things they did dot consent with the Ancient fathers with mutuall consent Apostolicall Church Duditius in Beza epist 1. saieth thus If it be trueth which the ancient Fathers haue professed with mutuall consent that is all on the Papists side Thus they touching their dissent from the Fathers In like manner they confesse that they dissent from the Church and Councells For thus P. Martyr in 1. Cor. 3. That The Church alwaiâ—s praied for dead The ancient Church The Church at 500. also vseth to be obiected to vs. That the Church hath alwaies praied for the dead which truely I doe not denie Whitaker CoÌ„t 2. q. 5. c. 7. I answere True it is that Caluin saieth and the Centurie writers that the ancient Church erred in manie things as of limbus of free will of merit of works and the other things before rehearsed Agayne I say that the Church which was 500. or 600. years after Christ did not hould in all points the doctrine of the Apostles For she held some errors Casaubon epist ad Cardin. Perron It was a most ancient custome that in the publike praiers of the Church remembrance should be made of the The ancient Church dead and rest praied for them of God The ancient Church by this means approued her faith of the resurrection to come Zuinglius in Elencho tom 2. speaking of the ceremonies In the beginning of the Church Generall Councells of baptisme saieth We know that in the beginning of the Church these things were vsed The like they confesse touching Councells For thus Confessio Anglica art 21. Generall Councells may erre and sometimes haue erred euen in the things which belonge to the rule of pietie Vrban Regius in Interpret All Councells The ancient Councels loc to 1. It is more cleare then the light that all Councells haue pernitiously erred Caluin 4 Insit c. 9. § 10. There is some thing wanting euen in those ancient and purer Councells There was a notable example hereof in the Councell of Nice Whitaker Cont. 2. q. 7. c 7. auoucheth that the Councell of Nice and Chalcedon haue erred Nether doe Protestants onely dissent froÌ„ the vniforme consent of Fathers Councels and Church but also they make small account thereof For thus P. Martyr in loc Tit. Not Fathers euen agreing Script § 16. But at least say they then are the Fathers to be allowed when they agree amongst themselues No not then alwaies Et lib. de votis As long as we abide in the Fathers we shall alwaies remayne in the same errors Whitaker Cont. 1. q. 5. c 8. The agreing exposition of the Fathers is no rule of expouÌ„ding Not witnesses without exceptioÌ„ Scriptures Cont. 2. q. 7. c. 7. We denie not but the Fathers be witnesse of the trueth but so as they be not without exception for all haue erred l. 6. cont Dur. sect 3. The consent of Fathers is not sure and free from error Et ad Demonst 7. Sanderi Not the whole Senate of Fathers Nether will we thinke that thou hast demonstrated any thing though thou couldest bring the whole Senate of Fathers against vs. Rainolds in his Conference p. 151. Trueth is not to Not all be tried by consent of Fathers Psal 150. If not one or twoe of the Fathers but all haue thought it nor thought it onely but haue written it nor written it onely but thought it not obscurely but clearely nor seldome but often nor for a time but perpetually yet their consent were not secure And he termeth vniuersalitie antiquitie consent rotten postes Yea in his 5. Thesis he will haue the Roman Church to be no true Church because she forbiddeth the Scriptures to be expounded contrarie to that sense which our holie mother the Church doth hould or contrarie to the vniforme consent of Fathers By which forbiddance saieth he are often reiected those senses which the spirit by the tenor of the words and sentences doth teach to be the meaning of the holie text MortoÌ„ in Apol. part 1. l. 1. c. 69. Sometimes neglecting the persons of the Fathers it is most safe to fech the prime antiquitie out of the Apostolicall writings Which is saieth he the Protest defense to reiect the Fathers prore and puppe of the Protestants defense Caluin 4. Instit c. 9. § 12. Let no names of CouÌ„cells of Pastours of Bishops hinder vs that we trie not all the spirits of them all with the square of Gods word for to finde whether they be of God Daneus CoÌ„tr. p. 289. Touching the saying of the Fathers this is our breif answere to them all We regard not what the Fathers haue saied but how Saying of Fathers not reguarded truely Et Cont. 5. p. 698. We must not looke what the Fathers haue written but what they should haue writteÌ„ Vorstius in Antib p. 395. The Protestants doe not thinke that they ought much to care what the ancient Fathers haue thought or written of this Not to be cared for matter Pareus l. 5. de Iust c. 5. I say that Scripture is to be expouÌ„ded by Scripture not by Fathers Et l. 2. de Grat. c. 14. Though all the Fathers agreed well yet were it weake Reineccius to 1. Arm. Not all fathers together c. 9 WheÌ„ all Doctors of the Church with a common consent doe teach some thing to come from Apostolicall tradition is that to be beleiued to be Apostolicall tradition No. Gerlachius disp 22. de Eccles The Fathers haue straied from the path of trueth not in these onely wherein they disagree with themselues and with others but in those also which they haue vniformely deliuered Celius Secundus de Amplit regni Dei lib. 1. Should then the Their authoritie nothing at all authoritie of so manie ancient Fathers the consent of ages auaile nothings Nothing at all Polanus in thes part 3. p. 546. We cite them â—estimonies of Fathers â—specially when we handle points of religion controuerted with Papists not for our sake but for Papists that we may refute Papists by the Fathers whome they haue Fathers cited as Heathens made their iudges as in ould time the Fathers refuted the HeatheÌ„ by the testimonies of the Sybills of Poets Philosophers orators and Heathen Historians As therefore the Fathers vsed the testimonies of Heathens against HeatheÌ„s So we produce the testimonies of Fathers against Papists Muscul in loc tit de Scrip. As for me I require not the testimonies of Fathers for to giue authoritie to Canonicall Scripture and to make distinction betwene it and the Fathers writings contenting my selfe with the authoritie and canon of the Scripture it selfe But because our aduersaries endeauour to trouble the trueth by pretext of Fathers I well alledge them where they are against their endeauours but when they cite any thing
as thou seest Christian Doctors to cōtend and disagree stick to him who bringeth a cleare euident and expresse oracle of God Caluin l. de ver ref p. 326. We denie that it is lawfull for vs to goe from the certaine words of Christ And 4. Instit c. 17. § 35. Our soules relie vpon the onely certaine word of God when they are called to account Sadeel libr. de Human. Christ I cannot sufficiently admire them who by those things which are not extant in Scripture will take awaye the things which are approued by most certaine and euident testimonies of Scripture And de ver peccat remissio No opinion is Theologicall which is against the expresse places of Scripture Fulk in Hebr. 6. not 3. Nether is the exposition of anie man to be receaued that goeth directly against the words of the text and the manifould testimonies of the Scripture Vorstius in Amica Collat. sec 101. Who simply so affirme and teach al these things they are secure before God because they can safely retire themselues vnder the sheild of the holie Scripture But who denie them or by meruailous glosses obscure or corrupt them thy finde no where sure footing There is nothing more secure thē simply to stick to the cleare word of God expounded by it selfe and contrariewise nothing more dangerous then to adde or detract neuer so litle of our owne especially in matters of so great moment Thus the cheife Protestant maisters which if ether themselues would haue followed or their disciples yet would follow soone would there be an end of these controuersies With what assurance ô God may Catholiks appeare Confidence of Cath. for their faith before thy tribunall for to answere for the faith which they maintaine against Protestants seing they finde it is auouched in so manie and so great articles by thy expresse words spoaken not by the way but of set purpose to tell vs what thou wouldest haue vs beleiue of these matters and in their cleare and plaine sense which they manifestly beare and in which such words vse to be taken of men so that vnlesse thou doe deceaue then or be deceaued they cānot in these points be deceaued But with what distrust Desperation of Protest or rather desperation will Protestants appeare seing they haue left that which so expresse words of God do auouch follow that which they most clearelie condēne onelie humane consequences humane glosses humane subtilities doe vphould Then these words of God wil be as Melancthon saied lightnings or as S. Austin speaketh thundrings Lib. 1. contr Parm. c. 2. and heauenly lightnings and Protestants cōsequences figures and glosses will vanish to nothing Then it will clearelie appeare that Protestants without all word of God without all diuine authoritie but onelie vpon their owne fancies haue preferred their consequences their conferences their idle reasons before Gods expresse word and that they might not seeme to haue done so haue changed the true and natiue sense of Gods words into a strange figuratiue and violent sense And shall we Neuer anie so contrarie to Scripture as Protestants thinke that these men are Ghospelers restorers of the Ghospel or sent of God and their doctrine the pure Ghospell Whereas neuer was there doctrine more opposit to the Ghospell nor euer anie who in so manie and weightie matters so directlie opposed themselues to the plaine words and open sense of the Ghospell O bouldnesse of men that durst do thus against the expresse word of God himselfe O impudencie of them who would auouch such doctrine for the Ghospell And ô blindnesses or madnesse of them who suffer themselues to be deceaued of such men in a matter so euident O bewiched and blinded mē awaken at lenght open your eyes consider your estate search the Scriptures here set before your eyes and compare them with the doctrine of your Maisters and consider whether they who in so manie and so great matters speak so contrarie can speake with the same spirit thinke the same thing Demand of your Maisters 1. by what authoritie Demands to be made to Ministers of God by what word of God they dare speake contrarie to the words and phrase of Scripture of so manie and so great matters 2. by what authoritie or word of God they dare thinke of so manie and so great matters otherwise then the expresse word of God spoaken purposelie and in it plaine and open sense taught them to thinke 3. By what authoritie or word of God they haue changed the proper vsuall and manifest sense of his words into figuratiue vnusuall and violent senses If they can alledge no expresse authoritie or word of Ministers draw men from Gods expresse word to their consequences God for their so doing as in trueth in most of these Articles they can giue no colour of Gods expresse word but oneliepretend their consequences their conferences their reasons suffer not your selues by this most deceitfull and fond humane pretext to be drawne from Gods expresse and their manifest sense Let vs saieth S. Austin heare our Lib. de peccat mer. c. 20. our Lord not the ghesses and suspicions of men But that God speaking to men speaking according to the manner of men speaking of diuine and supernaturall things which cannot be knowne of vs but by his words and speaking of them purposely for to declare his mynd concerning Note them should so often and in so manie and so wheigtie points thinke otherwise then he speaketh or otherwise thinke then his words do shew or otherwise then men to whome he speaketh vse to vnderstand them and yet not once should expressely say the cōtrarie is not Gods word but the ghesses and suspicions yea the impostures and lies of men In this point therefore consisteth almost all the The Summe whether Catholiks or Protest be to be followed summe of deliberation whether Catholiks or Protestants be to be followed to wit whether in supernaturall matters which cannot be knowne but by Gods expresse words we ought to follow rather the expresse words of God purposely spoaken of him for to tell vs those matters Is whether Gods word or mans reason rather then the consequences conferences reasons of some new slart vp men not well agreing among themselues Then the which consultation none can be easier For if euen in matters which are subiect to sense reason we ought to preferre Gods word before reason of what men soeuer how much more in things which farre surpasse the reach of mens sense or reason ought we to preferre it before the reasons of a few new and iangling fellows Let that faith liue florish and triumphe which Let that faith preuaile which Scripture most fauoureth in diuine matters that cannot be knowne but by Gods words is authorized by Gods expresse word spoaken of purpose to declare Gods mynd and in the plaine and opē sense wherein men vse to take such words and against which sense no