Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	authority_n	church_n	pillar_n	1,970	5	10.4442	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19649	An aunswer to sixe reasons, that Thomas Pownde, Gentleman, and prisoner in the Marshalsey. at the commaundement of her Maiesties Commissioners, for causes Ecclesisasticall: required to be aunswered Because these reasons doo moue him to think, that controuersies and doubts in religion, may not be iudged by the Scriptures, but that the Scriptures must be iudged by the Catholique Church. ... Written by Robert Crovvley.	Crowley, Robert, 1518?-1588.; Pounde, Thomas, 1539-1616.; Tripp, Henry, d. 1612.	1581 (1581)	STC 6075; ESTC S109107	34,598	58

expectantes satagite immaculati inuiolati ei inueniri in pace domini nostri longanimitatem salutem arbitremini sicut charissimus frater noster Paulus secundum datam sibi sapientiam scripsit vobis sicut in omnibus epistolis loquens in eis de hijs in quibus sunt quaedam difficilia intellectu quae indocti instabiles deprauant sicut caeteras scripturas ad suam ipsorum perditionem And I thinke that you your selfe would translate them into Englishe thus Wherefore dearely beloued waityng for these thinges giue your endeuour to be founde vnto hym in peace beeyng without spot and vndefiled and thinke that the long sufferyng of our Lorde is saluation euen as our moste deare brother Paule according to the wisedom that is giuen vnto him hath written to you euen as in euery Epistle speakyng in them of those thinges amongst whiche are some thinges that are harde to be vnderstanded whiche vnlearned and vnstable menne doe depraue euen as thei doe other Scriptures to their owne destruction I trust you doe see now that we neede not that reason whiche you doe call childishe and is not indeepe so childishe but that it hath in all ages been and is still allowed amongst the learned for the beste rule in vnderstandyng of places of the Scripture wherein is any difficultie But now you doe begge or rather take leaue to pose vs one question furder to the quicke And thus you saie How is it possible to knowe by any conference of the Scriptures which is Canonicall Scripture and which is not c. You seeme to bee perswaded that this question toucheth to the quicke in deede For you affirme plainly that if any Infidell Hereticke or Arbeist shall denie any parte of the olde or newe Testament or the whole olde and new Testament as in tymes past some haue doen. c. We haue no Ankor holde against such but onely the Reuelation of God to the Churche by Tradition which Churche is the piller and sure staie of truth c. I confesse that the Church is the Piller and sure staie of truthe as Sainct Paule writeth But that this truth is reuealed to the Churche by Tradition as you write that I denie For God hath taught and doth still teach the truthe to his Churche by the worde of truth and not by Reuelation or Tradition And that worde of truthe is sufficient and needeth not that any thyng should bee added to it either by Reuelation or by Tradition Yea there is an horrible cursse pronounced against all such as shall adde any thyng to in The true Catholique Churche is in deede the Piller and sure staie whereon that truthe that is taught by the worde of truthe doeth staie For that worde of truthe is the voyce of her Sheepeheard and she delighteth in hearyng that voyce but the voyce of a straunger she can not abyde to heare The truthe taught by the voyce of her Sheepehearde she laieth vp in her harte and all her delight is to lette men see it in her life and conuersation that séeing her good lyfe they may be occasioned therby to glorifie her spouse Christe and his and her heauenly Father This is that authoritie that S. Austine sayth moued him to beléeue the Gospell And this authoritie caused him to write thus against that Epistle of Manichaeus which the Maniches called theyr foundation Ego veró Euangelio non crederem nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae commoueret authoritas Surely I would not beléeue the Gospell except the authoritie of the Church dyd mooue me thereto Not many lines before those words S. Austine sayth thus to the Maniches Apud vos vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat c. That is Amongst you where no part of that thing is which might allure and holde me there soūdeth only a promising of the trueth which vndoubtedly if it be shewed foorth so manifestly that it may not be doubted of it is to be preferred before all those thinges that doo holde me in the Church I pray you Maister Pownde ponder well these wordes of Austine and be not afrayde with Austine to yéelde to the manifest trueth when it shall be manifested to you onely because it lacketh the consent of Peoples and Nations the authoritie of Myracles the nourishment of hope the increase of looue the establishment of Antiquitie the holde from Peters seate the succession of Priests and the name of Catholique For S. Augustine sayth That the manifest trueth must be preferred before all these But if you wyll marke it well you shall finde that the trueth which we holde and teach and would wishe you and all your sort to embrace dooth not lacke the chéefest of those thinges that mooued S. Austine first to embrace it For it is the same that first gotte credite by those Myracles that were wrought by Christe and his Apostles It was and is styll nourished by hope It was and is styll increased by looue it is also confirmed by that seate which you call Peters and hath the succession of Priests although not in such sort as you allowe of And last of all it hath the right name of Catholique Thus I hope you doo now sée that you haue not rightly applied eyther the words of Paule or of Austine mynding thereby to prooue that the Church of Roome being such a Church as nowe it sheweth it selfe to be is the Piller of trueth and that Catholique Church whereunto all Christians should and must of necessitie cleaue if they wyll be saued by Christe Your conclusion wherein you aduise all men to beware of fléeing from the Church to the iudgement of the Scriptures onely c. Was not so aduisedly made as were séemely to be made by one that were so well séen in the writings of y e Fathers as you would séeme to be For as I thinke yea I am perswaded that I may safely affirme there is not one of the auncient Fathers of your minde in that poynt Saint Austine in his Epistle fortie and eight written to Vincentius sayth thus Noli ergò frater contra diuina tam multa tam clara tam indubitata testimonia c. Doo not therefore Brother shewe thy selfe wylling to gather out of the wrytinges of Bishoppes reproches against so heauenly so many so cleare and so vndoubted testimonies whether the same Bishops be on our side as Hillarius or of the vnitie it selfe before the faction of Donatus was separated from it as Cyprian and Agripinus First for that that kinde of writing must be distinguished from the authoritie of the Canon for they are not so read that testimonie should be taken out of them that it might not be lawfull for any man to be of a minde contrarie thereto if perhappes they shall in any place be of other minde then the trueth requireth For we are of that number that may not disdayne to take euen vnto our selfe this saying of the Apostle And if ye be of an

An Aunswer to sixe Reasons that Thomas Pownde Gentleman and Prisoner in the Marshalsey at the commaundement of her Maiesties Commissioners for causes Ecclesiasticall required to be aunswered Because these Reasons doo moue him to think that controuersies and doubts in Religion may not be Iudged by the Scriptures but that the Scriptures must be Iudged by the Catholique Church 1. The first is for that the Scriptures are mute and dum 2. The second for that they be full of harde and deepe mysteries 3. The thirde for that S. Peter sayth No Scripture is to be taken after any priuate interpretation 4. The fourth for that to appeale to the Scriptures dooth seeme to denie all vnwritten verities 5. The fyft is for that it were a great absurditie not to haue a certaine Iudge of absolute Authoritie in the interpreting of Scriptures c. 6. The sixt is for that in refusing the Authoritie of the Churches absolute Iudgement herein we seeme to denie the holie ghost to be the spirite of trueth Written by Robert Crovvley ¶ Imprinted at London by John Charlewood 1581. ¶ To all the Pope his Catholiques in England or else where IN September last I with others was by sufficient Authoritie appointed to cōfer with such of your sort as at that tyme were in her Maiesties prisons of the Marshalsey the white Lion in Sowthwark restrained of lybertie for refusing to conforme themselues to that order of Religiō which is now publique in this Realme of England And according to our duety in that behalfe Maister Henrie Tryp and I did as we were required make our spedy repaire first to the one prison and then to the other And after some conference had with certain that were close prisoners we came to confer with one Maister Thomas Povvnde Gentleman in the lodging where he then laye And finding him altogeather vnwylling to enter into any conference by speaches because as he sayd he feared to fall into daunger of Lawe therby I aunswered that he ought to haue a better opinion of her Maiestie by whose appointment we were come to offer cōference then to thinke that she would send vs to entrap him or any other her subiects For she needeth not to seeke more aduantage against any of them then that which already by their disloyall behauiour they haue giuē her So that if she would proceede against them in rigour of lawe and not in mercie she might cut their heads from their shoulders and make no more to doo with them But being desirous by some meanes to bring to passe that they might become as obedient subiects to her as she both hath and dooth shew her selfe a louing Prince to them she would not abridge them of lybertie which for good and iust yea necessary causes shee is now enforced to doo but that shee would withal prouide that by cōferēce with such as be learned they might either be drawn from their errours or els be found to be obstinate and wilfully blinde But none of these speaches could mooue maister Pownd to like of any conference by speaches Yet notwithstanding he sayd he was ready to confer by wryting and offered so to doo Whereunto I aunswered that we had no commission to deale that way but yet if he would write I promised to aunswer him in writing Vpon this he pulled a Pāphlet out of his bosome the copie wherof I haue caused to be set before mine aunswer called in such as he thought meete to heare it read And after he had read it he deliuered it to me to be aunswered And this was done the. 7. day of September The ninth of the same month I began to shape him an aunswer and finished the same with as much conuenient speed as I could being letted with busines besides that busines enough to occupy som mā thorowly But by Gods helpe the time was not long before the aunswer was finished But in this meane whyle I know not by what occasion Maister Povvnd was remoued to another prisō further of so that I could not come to delyuer mine aunswer to him neyther did I thinke it meete to be sent to him immediatly from me because I vnderstoode that the right Reuerend Father the Lorde Bishop of London had commaunded him to be remooued thence I did therefore reade in the hearing of as many of your sorte as I then found in the Marshalsey bothe the Reasons contayned in Maister Povvnd his Pamphlet and also mine aunswers to the same Promising that with as much speede as I might I would send bothe to my sayd Lord the Bishop with my Letters beseeching him at his discretion eyther to send mine aunswer to Maister Pownd or els to cause him to be brought back againe to the Marshalsey whether I might repaire to proceede in conference with him by writing But my sayde Lorde being oppressed with other affaires more waightie and thereby enforced to commit this busines to some other that were not so carefull for the dispatch thereof as I would they had And I my selfe also not altogether vnoccupied otherwise did not as in dutie I ought call vpon my sayd Lord but supposing that mine aunswer had beene shortly conuayed to Maister Povvnd because I heard not of his returne to the Marshalsey I rested looking to haue receyued some replie from him tyll at the last euen in the Moneth of December last I heard that the Copies of his Pamphlet were made common to many of your sorte with great brags that the reasons therein contayned are vnaunswerable Yea and some of our side were required to aunswer them euen as Maister Povvnd had required me Whereupon repayring to my sayd Lorde the Bishop I receaued my sayde aunswer againe the 4. of this Ianuarie with his allowance to publish it in Printe together with the Copies of Maister Povvnd his Pamphlet and the breefe aunswer that Maister Trippe wrote after I had finished mine as by the same may appeare And this was thought needefull to be don because the Copie of Maister Povvnd his Pamphlet is already made so common our annswers being as yet made knowne but to fewe And that you may haue that firste in sight that you like best I haue caused the Printer to place the Copy of Maister Povvnd his Pamphlet immediatly after this short Epistle Reade these Reasons for your pleasure and our aunswers for your profite And if you mislike with our aunswers replie if you can You shall finde them of our side that will deale with you faithfully and freendely too Be not obstinately and wilfully blinde least you doo thereby prouoke yea and enforce our mercifull Prince contrary to her naturall inclination to deale with you in Iustice without mercie Though we haue great cause to thinke that you all the sorte of you doo hate both our Prince and vs for that Religion which bothe she and we do professe yet I dare assure you that bothe she and all the Honorable learned of her Realme yea and all of all estates

man but as holie men of God spake it inspired by the holy Ghost yet most contrary to this expresse rule euery priuate mā shall haue libertie to interprete it to his owne peruers will after a priuate interpretation otherwise then at first it was inspired to the holy men If euer man maie appeale from the Ecclesiasticall sence of the vniuersall Churche to the Text it self as he vnderstandeth it 4 The fourth Reason is becausé by appealyng onely to the Scripture you séeme to giue men libertie to denie all vnwritten verities which wee haue receiued of the Churche either by expresse definition in generall Counsaile or but by tradition And I beleeue at my firste na 〈…〉 of unwritten verities Maister Crowley and his 〈…〉 straight waie as though all suche were 〈…〉 to temper their follie I will not saie their pride a 〈…〉 that point I aske them all this question How thei proue the Trinitie of persones in the Vnitie of the substaunce in Godheade by the expresse Scriptures Or the two distinct natures in Christe and but one person Or God the Father to be Ingenitus Or the proceedyng of the holy Ghoste both from the Father and from the Sonne as from one Fountaine or the descendyng of Christ into Hell by plaine wordes of Scripture beyng therefore of many now a daies flatly deuyed Or the custome of Baptising of Infants seeyng the Scripture soundeth rather as though thei should bee taught first their faith before their were Baptized saiyng Goe and teathe all Nations Baptizyng them c. Or why we should kéepe the Sondaie now at all and not the Saterdaie rather whiche was the Iewes Sabothe daie that the Scripture speaketh of to be sanctified Although your Puritanes which goe to plough vpon all the Churches Holydaies seeme not yet to know the Sondaie for any of their makyng or why we should not abstaine now still like Iewes from strangled meates as the Apostels once decreed in the Acts and by no expresse Scripture againe abrogated Yea then why maie not any Hereticke denie al our thrée Créedes both the Apostles Créede the Nicen Creede as it is called the Creede of Athanasius seing neuer a one of these is written in Scripture expresly but all lefte vs by tradition onely vpon credite of the Churche Marke you not how these Bedlem Scripture men would shake all the foundations of our Christian faith by binding vs to beleue nothing but Scripture Do not these blinde guides thinke you leade us a trim daunce towarde infidelitie Thus muche of the fourth Reason 5 The fift is because that without a certaine Iudge for interpretatiō of Scripture absolutely this absurditie would followe y t God which is the Author of al perfectiō and disposeth euery thing in swete decent order had left his vniuersall Church in yearth in this confusion y t when soeuer any doubtfull question should arise vpō construction of his holy will there were no prouision at all ordained by God for deciding of such strifes and preseruation of concord among his people and then certainly the kingdome of Gods Churche were not so well prouided for in their gouernment as euery ciuill kindome is by pollicie of carnall men amōgst whom none almost are so barbarous but that thei haue Counsellers for gouernment of their state Iudges for expounding executing of their lawes aswell as lawes written or els it were ridiculus would not he be counted a very wise man thinke you in one of our Parliamentes whiche should steppe vp like a graue Burgesse and perswade all his fellowes that for asmuche as thei had a noble and an auncient Lawe written vnto them the Realme should haue no longer neede henceforthe of any Prince nor any Rulers nor Peeres nor Iudges nor Iustices nor ciuill Magistrates but euery man vppon his worde for the warrant would bee content to gouerne hym self orderly by the lawe written whiche as his wisedome thinkes is plaine enough And truely no wiser be thei but muche more to bee laughed to scorne whiche will haue the Scripture to bee the onely Iudge for euery man to appeale vnto and refuse all authoritie of the Churche in expoundyng thereof for who knoweth not that the Arrian Heretickes brought fortie places of Scripture for their horrible Heresie more then the Catholikes had against theim but all falsely vnderstoode whiche when it is so misunderstoode and misapplied then S. Augustine calleth it the Heretickes howe wherewith they shoote out their owne venemous arrowes And Vincent Lir. saieth it is then the Sheepes cloathyng whiche the Wolfe doeth shroude hym self in because that when a simple bodie feeleth the softnesse as it were of his fliece he should not mistrust the Tyrannie of his teethe That is to saie of his false construction of Scripture wherwith he would deuour his saule So did the Deuill hymself alleadge Scripture vnto Christ and as oft as any Heretikes aleadge Scripture to vs against the Catholike faith So oft saieth Vincentius we maie be out of doubt the Deuill doeth speake vnto vs by their mouthes and saieth vnto vs euen as he saied vnto Christ Si filius deies mitte te deorsum as much to saie If thou wile bee the sonne of God and professor of his holy Gospell cast thy self doune from the high authoritie and tradition of this Catholike Churche whom if wee aske againe why we should so doe then saieth Vincentius he commeth out with Scriptum est enim because it is written saieth he in the holie booke from thence thou must learne a newe lesson of me how to be a right Christian man To whom we must saie then Vade Satan non tentabis c. Auaunt Sathan c. and that with greate feruencie of faith for more perillous is the temption of such a flatteryng Serpent saieth S. Augustine then the roaryng of an angrie Lyon because the one wee flee from with feare but the other with entising maie come the nerer to sting vs. 6 The sixt reason most waightie of all is this because if you will refuse the authoritie of the Churches absolute iudgement vppon the Scriptures true cense you shall seeme plainly to denie the holy Ghoste to be the Spirite of truthe whiche vppon the Apostles and all the faithfull was sent doune with visible signes and with his Church is promised to remaine vnto the worldes ende by these wordes of our Sauiour I will aske my Father and he shall send you an other comforter to tarie with you for euer the spirite of truth And a little after thus The holy Ghoste the comforter whom my Father will sende in my name shall teache you all truthe Loe the Church is the surest Iudge and none shure but the Churche for all men in doubtes of Scripture because it hath a promise that it shall neuer erre in iudgement whiche is notably confirmed by the Prophet Esay saiyng This is my couenaunt with them saieth our Lorde my spirite whiche is in thee and my worde which I

Diuell him selfe dyd alleadge scripture against our sauiour Christe and dyd applie it as rightlie as Bonifacius the eight did when after he had one day shewed him self in his Pontificalibus that is his Popely attyre and the next day in the robes of an Emperour he sayd thus Ecce duo gladij hic Beholde heere are two swordes Another of your Popes setting his foote vppon the necke of Fredericus the Emperour sayd Super Aspidem Basiliscum ambulabis conculcabis Leonem Draconem Upon the Aspe and Basiliske shalt thou walke and vpon the Lyon and Dragon shalt thou treade And surely as often as these wresters of the Scriptures doo speake vnto vs the Diuell dooth as Vincentius sayth speake by theyr mouthes c. But héere I leaue your Vincentius and you together tyll at some more leysure I may reade him ouer I can not thinke that hée dooth handle that place of Mathewe so grosely as you would make vs beléeue that he dooth But though he doo the matter is not great For there is none that hath any sence or féeling in the vnderstanding of the Scriptures but the same may easily sée that when our sauiour Christe sayde Non tentabis Dominū Deum tuum Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God He had a farre other meaning then that which you woulde make vs beléeue that Vincentius dooth gather of these wordes Yea Athens I dyd first write this aunswer I haue read ouer Vincentius and haue founde that you doo belye him But as one mistrusting the authoritie of your Vincentius you clap in the necke of it one sentence of S. Austine but you tell vs not where we shall finde it But if those wordes be Austines as it may be that they are they wyll and doo serue much better against you and your sort then they can against vs. And thus much to your fift Reason which I haue called Fraudulent for the cause afore mencioned ¶ The ●ixt Reason YOur sixt and last Reason most weyghtie of all is this Because if we wyll refuse the authoritie of the Churches absolute iudgement vppon the scriptures true sence We shall séeme plainely to deny the holy Ghost to be the spirite of trueth c. This Reason I haue called Fanaticall For that in making so great an accoumpt of this Reason you séeme not to be in your right wittes What bedlem would abuse the wordes written in the fowretéene of Iohn as you doo to prooue that because our Sauiour Christe dyd praye for and obtayne and dyd giue the holy Ghost the spirite of trueth to his holy Apostles and dyd promise that the same should remayne with them for euer and instruct them in all trueth therfore the same holy Ghost must néedes be and remayne styll in that Church which agréeeth with the Church of the Apostles onely in name and is no more lyke the Apostles Church in doctrine and manners then blacke is lyke to whyte and God is lyke the Diuell The Wise man sayth that Wisedome wyll not enter into a malicious soule neyther wyll she dwell in a body that is subiect to sinnes For the holy spirite of Wisedome flyeth from deceite c. And shall we thinke that the holy Spirite of trueth hath bene and wyll be styll amongst such a rabble of Popes Cardinalles and other Catholiques as your owne Histories make mencion of that haue besides theyr beastly lyfe made decrées directlie contrarie to Gods commaundements Yea shall we thinke that the Spirite of Christe dwelleth amongst those Catholiques that at this day doo in the twentie and fiue Session of the Councell of Trent pronounce all such accurssed as doo shewe them selues eyther by doctrine or otherwise to mislyke with the hauing of Images in Churches seeing the same is dyrectly contrarie to the second commaundement of God Shall we thinke that the holy spirite of God dyd guide those your Catholique Fathers when they dyd in the same Session blanche the counterfeyting of Gods Maiestie by an Image And thinke you that Esay the Prophet if he were now lyuing would allowe your applying of his wordes to such Catholiques and to theyr doinges séeing the same Prophete dooth so earnestly speake against the making of Images scorning bothe them and theyr makers and plainly affyrming that they be good for nothing The Scribes the Pharisies the high Priestes and Doctors of the lawe might as well haue mainteyned theyr corrupt Doctrine and Traditions against Christ and his Apostles euen by those words of Esay that you applie for your purpose as you may now by the same mayntaine all the corrupt Doctrines and Traditions of your Catholiques For they dyd then perswade them selues as you doo now that the promise was made to them could not but be perfourmed to them And that therfore Christe and his fauters were Scismatiks and méete to be excommunicated as by them they were in déede and as by you we be now But to our great and vnspeakable comfort our sauiour Christe hath foretolde vs of this saying These wordes haue I spoken vnto you that you should not be offended They wyll excommunicate you and the time will come wherin whosoeuer shall hyll you will think that he dooth God good seruice And that promise also that you would s●me to reioyce so much in●ia in déede as cōfortable to vs as you would haue men thinke that it is to you We knowe that the Spirite of trueth departeth not from Christe in his members the Church the true and vnfeyned Catholique Church Neyther doo the wordes that the heauenly Father put into the mouth of Christ his onely begotten Sonne depart out of his mouth the true Catholique Church and yet dare not we make that Church Iudge of that worde For they were not put into her mouth to that ende that shée should iudge them but that shée should in all her doinges be iudged tryed and directed by them As sottishe as you say our opinion is we are so farre from holding that euerie priuate man may haue leaue to be his owne Iudge in vnderstanding the Scripture that we doo not graunt it to the best learned but doo leaue it to him that béeing with humilitie of minde sought in the Scriptures wyll be found there yea euen by Crafts men such as was Peter and his fellow fisher men For he respecteth not mens persons nor Occupations And vnto them that so séeke him there whether they be many or fewe he wyll open the sence of vnderstading that they may vnderstand as much as he knoweth to be méete for them to vnderstand And such as haue that humble spirit wyll not search for nor shewe them selues destrous to knowe any more Well now you conclude vpon that which you say we must néedes graunt that is that the Church is our mother as Scripture sayth Well I am glad that you are now become a Scripture man But I pray you where is that Scripture written that sayth that your Catholique Church