Maiestie their honors and the Bishops may be assured hereof Or will they promise this on the worde of a faithfull minister that they will exercise their ministerie no otherwise But why then do they it not For there is no other thing required of them and it is their dutie so to doe it But what especiall regard of the peace of the Church publike orders if they had libertie to exercise their ministery according to their consciences is it likelie that our brethren would haue wheÌ„ as they were restrayned only for the abuse hereof being restrayned do thus disturbâ— the peace of the Church the publike orders of the same Yea all their especiall regarde and drift is against the publike orders And if nowe they should thus be with fauour allowed to exercise their ministery according to their coÌ„sciences what would our brethreÌ„ then spare to do against these publike orders I maruel therfore how they can thus coÌ„fidently say it is impossible but that they shall exercise their ministerie c. Whereas it is both against all sense and reason yea plaine impossible to bee graunted to them without we would with all graunt vnto them all their desires and deuises in these controuersies For the residue of this conclusion we say in part with our bretheren also Wherefore most Christian reader when thou shalt by these fewe take knowledge of these things which are contayned in this preface and in this Learned discourse praye vnto God for vs and as thy place is and so farre foorth as accordeth with thy dutie therein sollicite and furder so iust a cause as that the peace of the Church the publike orders gouernment established be not preiudiced to this end only that Christs kingdome may be perfectly established the consciences of all the godly quieted the happy regimeÌ„t of her Ma. honored with much peace ioy and quietnes both at home among vs and that it may ouerflowe to thâ— reliefe comfort and good example of other parts of Christes Church that are distressed in forraine countries To the which effects good Christian Reader cal vpon God our heauenly Father in the name of his sonne ouâ— Sauiour Christ for the illumining of his holie spirit that thy iudgement being not foreâ—talled in these matters and yet being desirous to sée the trueth and to search out the bothom of these doubtes thou mayest bee able to discerne the spirites aright to resolue and staye thy selfe on the very grounde of trueth in all these questions And so a Gods name enter nowe into the perusall and considering of this learned discourse The first booke of this defence against the learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment The argument of the first Booke THE first booke is of the principles of this learned discourses platforme of the Churches gouernment of their partition thereof into a Tetrarchie of 4. estates Doctors Pastors Gouernours and Deacons and of their necessitie and perpetuitie of the perswasion to leaue our own Estate and embrace the Estate of our neighbors and of their putting back the treatise of the Christian Princes supreame Gouernment in Eccl. causes and their reasons why they will not first treate there-on vntill they haue before assigned vnto all and euerie of these 4. Estates all their places with their seuerall and ioynt offices and authorities wherein is shewed not only what daunger and iniurie is offred vnto Christian Princes but also with what vnworthie contumelies and sclaunders they are reiected to the ende of this Learned discourse A learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernement prooued by the worde of God THis is the Title commendatorie of this booke besides the other title which they set before it A brief or plaine declaration concerning the desires of al those faithfull ministers c. But because this later title liked them better our brethren take the former part of this title prefixe ouer euerie leafe of all their treatise this commendation A learned discourse of eccl gouernment I referre the iudgement of the learning to the learned Me thinketh our brethren should haue done better to let the discourse commende it selfe whether it be learned or vnlearned vino vendibili non â—pus haedera But what soeuer the reader can iudge of learning let him stil haue his ayme to this point that is here auouched but not likewise set vp ouer euery leafe proued by the word of God For beit learned or vnlearned proue that we yéelde And if our brethren proue it not by the word of God then we craue of them that they will cease these contentious discourses and not stande so much vpon their learning But both their learned discoursing of Eccl. gouernment and their prouing the same by the word of God shall appeare God willing to the Reader by the discoursing The Church of God is the house of God therefore ought to be directed in al things according to the order prescribed by the housholder himselfe which order is not to be learned else-where but in his holie word The first of these principles or propositions is the very worde of the holy Ghost vttered by Paul The second followeth necessarily of the first The third is a manifest trueth beleeued of all them that acknowledge the scripture of God to be a perfect rule of all our life and able to make the man of God perfect prepared to all good workes On these thrée principles our brethren lay their ground of al their learned discourse Which being rightly vnderstoode and building well vpon them are verie good principles or rather propositions as they terme theÌ„ Of this first is saide ynough alreadie concerning Dauids comparing him selfe to the stone in the corner of this mysticall houses building And most gladly we admit this our brethrens testimonie for the same as the verie worde of the holy Ghost vttered by Paule and that this house of God which is the Church of the liuing God is the piller and ground of truth Because it alwayes vpholdeth and maintaineth the trueth both in this matter of eccl gouernment and in all other so farre as is necessarie to saluation Albeit Christe in principall properly and absolutely is the onely ground and foundation of this house And heere by the way sith by this testimonie of S. Paul the Church which is the house of God is thus the piller and ground of the truthe If this gouernment that our brethren vrge be so necessarie and of so great moment to the house or church of God then is it likely the the Church of God though it hath not alwaies and in all places yet for the most part of time places or at leastwise in some ages and places had this gouernment maintained kept it or striued for it or else belike it was not thought so necessarie The second principle they say followeth necessarily of the first And so it doth which seconde was this and therefore this Church
This rule therefore that because it is first in time before another it is in order to bee first treated vpon before an other or because other as yet were not therefore that which was before made a perfect regiment is no perfect nor good argument Which argument being grounded on so vncertaine and weakâ— foundation all that is built thereon is easily shattered The Papistes for the traditions of the Church which they call the vnwritten worde or veritie vnwritten vse the like argument against the authoritie of Gods written word and veritie of the Scripture The word was deliuered by tradition of preaching before it was deliuered by writing therefore traditions are of no lesse authoritie nor lesse to be beleeued then the written worde and holie scripture yea the Churches authoritie is aboue the scriptures and is the iudge thereof Thus doe the Papistes encroche from the time to the authoritie as our brethren heere doe Nowe as this reason faileth both for the Senioritie of time and forestalling the order of place and much more for claiming any prioritie in dignitie and most of all for inferring any such honour as perfection of regiment so for the truthe of this proposition that The Church of God was perfect in all her regiment before there was any Christian Prince I can not yet sée howe directly it can be iustified For if this were true then there neede no regiment of Christian Princes at all And howe then haue the Christian Princes anie authoritie at all in Eccl. causes Or â—f they haue anie howe came they by it if the Churches regiment were perfect or the Church perfect in all her regiment before there were anie Christian Prince Or whereto serueth the Christian Princes supream authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes if not to make the regiment of the Church in better estate For otherwise the Church were as good without it if she be no better in her Regiment by it then she was before shée had it But it is not so both the church and her regiment is bettered by it Which your selues are faine in part to confesse euen heere in the conclussion of your argument saying of God who hath most mercifully and wisely so established the same to wit the churches regiment that as with the comfortable aide of christian Magistrates it may singulerlie prosper and flourish c. And againe for the church craueth helpe defence of christian Princes to continue and go fore-ward more peaceablye and profiâ—ablye to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christ. Although héere ye will affoorde no more but this yet if there were no more this is inough to ouerthrow your saying that the church of God was perfect in all her Regiment before there was any christian prince For if this comfortable aide helpe and defence to continue and goe forewarde in so great matters as more peaceably and profitably to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christe were taken awaie then the church of God though I graunt it may continue and against the aduersaries thereof preuaile Yet should she not be perfect in al her Regiment needing this comfortable ayde help and defence of christian Princes And the setting vp of the kingdome of Christe shoulde with more trouble and lesse profit go fore-warde yea rather it should go back-warde and he hindered though it continue and not so singulerly flourish and prosper but decay And is this so smal a matter in your eyes brethren as that it nothing appertained to the Regiment of the church but that crauing all this of christian princes and so without them wanting the same ye dare so boldly auouch that she is perfect in all her Regiment without it Doth she craue that she wanteth not Then is she a wanton Doeth she want it then is she not perfect in all her Regiment Or doeth it not greatly pertaine vnto her Regiment Or doe yee thinke that this shall salue the matter because the churche may continue and againste the aduersaries thereof preuaile without it Our question nowe is not of the substance and beeing of the church but of the Regiment of it Neither yet simply of the Regiment but whether she were perfect in all her Regiment before any christian princes were or no The church I graunt was then and shall continue euer and she had euen then a Regiment also Yea and that Regiment in soone respectes might be called perfecte for that time while there were not such open professed christian princes to be foster fathers and noursing moothers of the church as God bee praysed now there are For concerning the Rectors of the church then as they were then more perfect and singuler persons so had they more perfect and singuler extra-ordinary offices and withall more excellent giftes to be able to gouerne it the better But this argueth so little the churches perfection then in al her Regiment vnderstanding the same of all her ordinary externall Regiment whereupon our question is which Regiment shee was not then so perfectly come vnto that rather their extra-ordinary gifts and offices of Apostles Euangelistes Prophetes c. were added for that time to supplye furnish that part of the Regiment thereof that was afterward to be made more perfect concerning the ordinary state by the accesse of the Christian Princes following Except therefore our Brethren intende vtterlie to shake off all Christian Princes and account their supreame authority in Church causes if not now to be nought yet to be nought worth and altogether vnnecessary to the perfection of the Churches Regiment how can this be any good argument to infirme it now because admitting this also were true there were no ChristiaÌ„ Princes theÌ„ what do they inferre here-upoÌ„ that there is no more néede héerein of Christian Princes now then there was then presupposing that then héerein there was no néede at all of them that were a very suspitious and perrilous conclusion For although theÌ„ there were the lesse néede of them because that néede was then other-wise supplied yet those supplies not continuing and malice increasing both of aduersaries without and of Hipocrites within and the giftes also that remaine decreasing there is now farre more neede of the Christian Princes supreame gouernment to the perfecting of the Churches Regiment And so the state of the time for the regiment of the church differing the argument of the Regiment from the time then to the time now is defectiue But if they néeded then héerein the helpe of christian Princes as they do nowe then was not the church perfect in all her Regiment otherwise than as it was extraordinarylie supplied before the christian Princes helpe and comfortable aide was added Before which time those temporary supplies comming to the church as the Manna and other extraordinary helpes made the Iewes estate to flourish prosper and goe fore-ward in the Desertes though they ceased when they came to the land of promise So the church might bee
in his seuerall church in which hee may doe nothing without the consent of the church Our Brethren doe here deuide againe or subdiuide the Pastors authoritie They deuided it before Page 76. 77. into the authority or power of gouernment in the churche or authoritie in common Gouernment with the Elders and into the authority or power that belongeth to the proper duety of the Pastor him-selfe Which was somewhat an intricate Diuision Sith the authoritye or power belonging to his proper duetye is a great part of his publique Gouernment in the church This authority nowe which before they sayde that they vnderstoode for power of Gouernment in the churche they diuide againe into a double authority the one with the seuerall congregation in which hee is Pastor the other with the whole Synode or assemblie whereof hee is a member If nowe their selues doe héere finde and that twise together that in one function there is not onely a former double and different authority but also of one of the former deuided partes a redoubled and different authority in the Pastors howe then did they auouche immediatly before that there is but one autority in them to determine of matters concerning them all but perhaps they mean that of the churches authority and here they speak of the authority pertaining to the pastors of the churches But that helpes not For if the Pastors authority which he hath in common with the Elders whom they make the church be thus deuided then is the churches authority diuided also First therefore say they wee will speake of his authority in his seuerall Church in which hee may doe nothing without the consent of the Church I woulde gladly learne where our Brethren haue all these diuisions and subdiuisions all these Canons and limitations of a Pastors authority For although it bee heere promised that wee finde them sufficiently authorized in the scripture yet hetherto heere is no Scripture cited for them saue 1. Tim. 6.15 that God is blessed and onely mighty the king of kings and Lord of Lordes And Math. 18.19.20 Which was before alleaged to other purposes although God wot very impertinently But they promise vs further that both these authorities we finde sufficiently authorized in the scripture as shall plainly appeare in the seuerall discourses of them So that héere is yet nothing that we can finde which may be counted a sufficient authorizing in the scripture of these things And therefore our Brethren in this their Learned Discourse made hereupon doe well and learnedly in my opinion to let all this passe that they haue already alleaged as insufficient and referre vs to the hope of better proofes in their more Learned Discourse to come as shall plainly they promise vs appeare in the seuerall Discourse of them But when we shall come also God willing vnto those seuerall Discourses of them to searche whether these authorities and assertions of our Brethren bée sufficiently authorized in the Scripture I doubt wée shall finde that this sufficient authorizing in Scripture is not any expresse and and plaine testimony of the scripture but onelye their owne collection thereon And if this be sufficient to make vs reckon a thing sufficiently authorized as in some cases we deny it not if they can make it plainlye appeare that it followeth by necessity of consequence though verbatin◠it be not expressed in the Scripture if wée must permit this in them that their collections on the Scripture must goe for authorizings in the Scripture why must not the same manner of authorizings where wee proue necessary consequence bee of as good authority on our parties In the meane time betwéene vs both for any thing yet by these oure Learned Brethren alleadged till I sée better proofe thereof either out of expresse and plaine Scripture or out of some necessary consequence of Scripture I yéeld not to this their dubble Canonized Canon as shooting off nothing but a bare bolde wee say not any Testimonye or proofe sufficientlye authorized in the scripture that the Pastor by his authority in his seuerall Church may doe nothing without the consent of the Church Nothing they say hath no sauour and this hath no trueth It is so farre from béeing sufficiently authorized that it is more then sufficiently confuted as already hath often appeared and playnely in the manifest example of Saint Paules preceptes to Timothie euen by Caluines and Bezaes owne cleare Confessions besides diuers others on the same Not that wee deny but that Paule and Timothie had the churches consentes for the better part among them in what thinges soeuer they did by their authoritie in their churches but that in all thinges they asked not their consentes before nor that they which gaue their consentes had such a negatiue authority but that if they woulde not haue giuen them Saint Paule and Timothie might haue procéeded in some thinges against their consentes which when they were giuen were not the sufficient or any authorizing at all of Paule and Timothies doinges among them The argument of the 11 Booke THE 11. booke is of the third kind of Tetrarkes which our Brethren call Gouernors beginning first with the Churches diffused authority of confusion in the multitude of the appointing to auoide it certaine officers for gouernment how the name of Gouernors and Rulers is vnderstoode Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. how these gouernors must rule euery seueral congregation how their gouernment stretcheth to al matters Howe these Gouernors authority is to bee moderated And first for the election of these gouernors who should chose them what qualities they must haue What elders were elected Act. 14. And what elders are mentioned 1. Tim. 5.17 of the 3. conclusions that our brethren would haue vs learn out of that testimony How the name elders is common to Pastors gouernors how the words may be well vnderstood of relation betwene the ciuil officers then among thē the pastors How the wordes inferre not such gouernors as our brethren imagine and how that although they might be so vnderstood yet they inferre no perpetuity as well of the one sort of Elders gouerning not teaching as of the other of gouerning teaching elders Howe the words infer no such distinction of eccl elders the one teaching gouerning the other not at al teaching but only gouerning but rather seem to infer a distinctiō of the trauels than of the function or if of the functiō to encline to the distinctiō betwene past deac or betwene those Pastors that were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 antistates B. and others that laboured more in ministring the Sacraments then in preaching How Caluine dare not inferre any such necessary sense as he conceiueth on this place but only saith it may be collected How our brethren inueighing against them make these gouernor◠dumb not teaching Bishops preaching prelates How the Apostles words infer not their ioint gouernment with the Episcopall
wisedome shall turne the truth aside but all shall stand in the euident demonstration of Gods spirit The waye which they haue before set downe although it be not able nor likelie without some moderators and determiners appointed by hir Maiestie and their honours to effect a perfect reconciliation and sure vnion yet the matters in controuersie being so in writing on bothe sides debated cannot well be saide to come naked in respect of the robes and ornaments of the scripture sithe the grounds of all their prooues should be taken either out of the expresse testimonies of the scripture or out of necessarie consequence of the scripture Except perhaps they meane by being richlie attyred with all robes and ornaments which the scripture giueth vnto the synodicall assemblies for such conferences their owne interpretations and rhetoricall exornations of the scripture But let the scriptures as they say be searched out for the true vnderstanding of them with as much reasoning as shall be thought necessarie and sufficient without all by matters quarrels euasions and coulours whatsoeuer and so a Gods name naked or adorned let the matter be further tried when it shall But what meane they héere that they adde yet further That there be much order when the spirit of euerie prophet shall- be subiect vnto the spirits of the other prophets Would they reduce this synodicall conference to the order of prophesying which they began of late in the imitation of that order which S. Paule mentioneth 1. Cor. 14 For that was not a strict and logicall reasoning nor a deliuerie of their assertions and aunswers by writing but a discoursing at large by mouth nor so properlie anie disputing one against another as an interpreting one after an other or exhorting instructing and comforting one another as the spirit which at that time wrought miraculouslie in them gaue them vtterance is this then that conference which our brethren desire Bicause they saye they would not be stopped of free and sufficient answer This is nothing agréeable to the waye whereof they saide before they could thinke of no waie but that which should be When the reasons on both sides without all out-goings are shortlie and plainelie deliuered in writing each to other And héere contrariwise they would haue the Iudgement of all sufficientlie heard and the spirit of euerie Prophet to be subiect to the spirits of the other prophets and that all shall stand in the euident demonstration of Gods spirit So that vnder pretence of the demonstration or reuelation of Gods spirit as though yet those miraculous reuelations and demonstrations of the spirit of God were still and in these matters to be expected and not the manifest euiction of Gods word if once they said that we on our side had not the spirit of God but onelie they either we must yeeld to them or else nothing shall- be determined betwéene vs. But if the matter shall come to the iudgement of the other prophets supposing all to be prophets in the synod or companie appointed for the conference our brethren might perhaps be deceaued of their hoped successe without anye lordlie carriyng awaie of the matter Neither is it méete we graunt that the matter should be stopped without such free and sufficient answer as is requisit for such a disputation or with lordlie carrying awaie of the matter with no substance of reason or by authoritie or pregnancie of wit or plausible persuasion of mans wisdome to turne the truth aside These spéeches are but byowse slaunders glaunsing at the Bishops and at the synodall assemblies in the conuocation house as though they out-countenanced the matter with such shifts which is neither charitablie nor truelie spoken by our brethren But who come néerest to these practises we shall sée afterward God willing when wee come to the treatise of Synods in this learned discourse Lastly say they that there be peace without all bitternesse reuilings suspitions charging of men dead and aliue whereby affections are moued iudgement blinded and men driuen as with a mightie streame from the loue of the trueth When it commeth thus adorned we thinke that which we labour to procure to be so honorable not onely before God but also before men that none can iudge otherwise of it than we doe Turpe est doctori cûm culpa redarguit ipsum Would God our brethren their selues would leaue off these practises which here they would haue to be lest off What is more bitter or bitternesse it selfe then are the spéeches which euen in their entrie into this meanes of reconciliation they haue here vsed And all this learned discourse is still besprinckled with this bitternesse with reuilinges with suspitions and with charginges of men both dead and aliue For not onely our Bishops and we that God be praysed are aliue be charged by our brethren but the charge burdeneth no lesse all those Bishops and ministers that first concluded vppon the Eccles. Lawes nowe in force Yea it includeth the Princes of so godly memorie that with their cleargie and the whole state of the Church and Realme established the same But perhaps our brethren here do meane that we vse to defend these Lawes with this argument that such and such most excellent men allowed of them and of all thinges they loue not to heare of this argument whereby they say affections are moued iudgement blinded and men driuen as with a mightie streame from the loue of the truth Indéede in a false matter it may so doe and hath doone much among the papistes and by our brethrens leaue they also are carried too much away with charginges of men dead and aliue and with too much forestabled opinions of such and such men as to say Caluine being dead Beza or Daneus being aliue were of this or that opinion in these thinges And therefore I haue also labored some what the more to lay before the reader amonge all other especially their opinions that the reader may better weigh their proues and sée howe far they agrée or disagrée about thinges And the like we all doe with Swinglius Peter Martyr Bullinger Musculus c. With Cranmer Ridley Latimer Hooper Iuell c. being dead besides Gualter Zanchius others being aliue Not to vse the opinions or sentences of these most famous men to carie away the affections and blinde the iudgementes of men to be driuen as with a mightie streame from the loue of the trueth God forbid Amicus Plato amicus Socrates magis amica veritas But to confirme men better in the truth as we also alleage the holie auncient fathers Ireneus Tertullian Cyprian Clemens Alexandrinus Origene Eusebius Epiphanius Basill Theodoret Chrysostome Ierome Ambrose Augustine c. As witnesses only to the trueth in doubtfull matters and to heare their iudgementes and consentes in these questions what was the vse or opinion of them in their dayes And this doe our Brethren themselues and giue vs
and a point very necessary to haue beene firste if not decided yet treated on and better considered or if not firste of all albeit in good right euen first of all in this matter of Ecclesiasticall gouernment yet at least or euer yee had procéeded thus farre in the treating determining and giuing full and onelie authority to all and euerie of these 4. Tetrarks For yee can-not pleade ignorance that yee thought not thereon before nowe That yee were called to a suddaine and tumultuous reasoning where the fynest witte the beste memorye the moste filed speeche shall carrie awaye the truthe at leaste maruelouslye moue the vngrounded hearers as in your Preface yee complayned For euen there yee fore-sawe that it woulde bee obiected and among other thinges yee mentioned that obiection saying If anye shall obiect c. that it shall bee preiudiciall to the estate of Gouernement established And doe yee nowe vppon mature deliberation hauing professed to set foorth A Learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernement and hauing entred into it laide your principles and distributed all â—he parts and persons that must be Gouernours of it as though ye bethought your selues come dropping in with this obiection saying But while we speake of Ecclesiasticall gouernement As who woulde say Good Lorde howe haue wee forgotten our selues Wee speake of Gouernment and haue treated nothing of the Prince which is the supreme Governour Wel while it is in memory and while we are speaking of it let vs say something to that obiection that our selues partlye haue already moued and it is most likelie wil be by other obiected let vs therefore aunswere before hand to that obiection while we speake of Ecclesiasticall gouernment And it may bee when yee wrote this that yee thought on some suchâ— like matter Notwithstanding this is but my coniecture peraduenturâ— yea peraduenture nay but I take it this is not the worst construction Howbeit to say while yee are speaking of it and haue already giuen your resolute sentence on the matter who haue the only gouernment it may be thought your obiection and your aunswere therevnto commeth verie tardie to helpe the Princes title Except ye will reuoke or suspende your deâ—nitiue sentence or except yee haue some further warrant from the experience of their example that they say haue a custome first to giue iudgement and put it in execution and then to enquiure whether the party were guilty yea or no. But Hysterâ—n Proteron former or later let it come in question now a Gods name that wee maye see what is left to the Prince and whether the Princes supreme goueâ—nement be any whit preiudiced by this conclusion already passed foâ— the direction of all Ecclesiasticall matters to bee made onely by these foresaid Tetrarcks But while we speake say they of Ecclesiasticall Gouernement Nâ—â— sofâ—e my good and learned discoursing brethren since yee haue stayâ—â— to speake heereof al this while let mee craue pardon for a few wordeâ— to stay your speech heereon a little while more I pray you what meâ—â— yee by this tearme heere Ecclesiasticall gouernment And a three linâ—â— before yee called it also Ecclesiasticall regiment For there maie bee a great caption in these speeches which our common aduersaries vâ— against vs in all their writings and inuectiues concerning the Princâ—â— Supremacie And therefore you beeing her Maiesties true subiectes 〈◊〉 dissenting from the Papistes errours I am lothe to haue you either â—â—tangle your selues or vs with their captious and sclaunderous tearâ—â—â— which not onely darken the matter but touche her Maiesties honour 〈◊〉 sclaunder her Royall person and right of her cheefest office very neare 〈◊〉 be it you do it I dare say it for you of an ouershott zeale and not of 〈◊〉 malice as they do They slaunder her Maiestie to take vpon her an Ecclesiasticall regiment or gouernment as though she tooke vpon her to be an Ecclesiasticall person or to exercise a function or office Ecclesiasticall and to do the actions that appertaine to the Regiment Ecclesiasticall This is a manifest sclaunder of her Maiestie who neither exerciseth nor claymeth anie such Ecclesiasticall Gouernement nor the statute nameth or intendeth anyâ— such Ecclesiasticall Gouernment of her Maiestie but onelie that her Maiestie hath the Supreame Gouernement ouer all persons Ecclesiasticall and is the Supreame Gouernour of them in all Ecclesiasticall causes to ouersée and gouerne the right direction of al the persons and causes Ecclesiasticall So that where the direction of the consultation and fynding out the causes the execution and gouernement of the actions belongeth to the persons the Supreame gouernment and direction of the causes to bée authorized and the actions by the persons to be put in due execution principally pertaine to her Maiestie And if ye thinke otherwise of her Maiesties not Ecclesiasticall Gouernment but supreame Gouernment in or ouer Ecclesiastical persons causes ye do greatly mistake it And this may serue also for your third Tetrarke whoÌ„ ye cal Gouernours to whome yee attribute amisse an Ecclesiasticall Gouernement Except ye intend by the word Eccl. anie manner of wayes perteyning to the Churche And thus the widdowes of whome the Apostle speaketh 1. Tim. 5.9 Had Eccl. offices also by which reckoning weomen with you might be Ecclesiasticall persons and haue an Eccl. gouernment in the church And so your Ecclesiasticall Gouernours are notwith-standing populer and plebeian persons which commonly are called the laye people And by the Scottish Churches election of them and of the Deacons where they saye The Friday after iudgement is taken what persons are elected for elders and Deacons to serue for that yeere It shoulde séeme they account them not properlie Ecclesiasticall persons but rather lyke â—ur Syde-men or Church-wardens But howsoeuer yee confound these â—earmes in these your Gouernours it is not good confounding them in the Prince And yee see that great captions sclaunders and cauils may â—rise vppon such great personages by such intricate and dâ—â—btfull â—earmes Non bene definit qui non bene diuidit Speake distinolye and plaine and then we shall better vnderstand your meaning and either you or we shal quickly be driuen to a final conclusion without al starting holes or euâ—â—â—ons If yee meane by Ecclesiasticall gouernment that her Maiestie taketh vppon her an Ecclesiasticall office or to be an Ecclesiasticall person and so execute the actions of the causes that as you say are commonlie called Ecclesiasticall ye incurre the common aduersaries slaunder of her Maiestie although I trust vnwittingly and therefore will not I hope vnwillingly reclaime your errour If ye meane by Ecclesiasticall Gouernement her Maiesties Gouernement in or ouer Ecclesiasticall matters or causes we admit your sense and now procéede on concerning the obiection and your aunswere It may be thought of some that wee shoulde intreate first of the Supreame authority of Christian Princes And good reason to as I take it if you will needes take vppon yoâ— by what
be thought of some that we should first intreate of the supreame authoritie of Christian Princes whereupon it seemeth that all the regiment of the Church dependeth Yea but you will say if it seemeth so then it commeth not of nothing There is no smoake where there is no fire We must abstaine from all appearance of euill Who saide this Forsooth brethren that did euen I and hardily returne mine owne wordes to mine owne selfe Lege Talionis For ye sée I am bolde with you brethren in so doing Well then will you say it seemeth that all the Regiment of the Churche dependeth on the supreame authoritie of the Christian Prince in Ecclesiasticall causes and this seeming commeth not on nothing No verely doth it not For to set aside your partiall suspition and goe to the matter it selfe The Christian Prince hauing supreame authoritie in Ecclesiast causes doeth no Regiment of the Churche at all though not all the Regiment of the Church depende thereon Tush this is a thing which is such a myste say you to dazell the eyes of the ignorant persons that they thinke all thinges in the Eccles. state ought to be disposed by that onely high authoritie and absolute power of the ciuill Magistrate A ha brethren I thought it would prooue somewhat It seemed as the saying is either a foxe or a fearne brake I tooke it for smoake and it was a myste So that I myst my marke And yet till it came it reeked like a smoake And a myste will not onely dazell the eyes but so darken the obiect that wee cannot discerne the trueth till the myste bée dissipated and then if we haue good eyes we shall sée all thinges as they are But what is this which is such a myste forsooth that all the regiment of the Church dependeth on the authoritie of Christian Princes This is a foule thicke stincking sclannderous darke myste indéede Whence riseth this myste Doe we raise anie such spéeches on the Prince Doth the statute yéelde anie such authoritie to the prince Doeth her Maiestie claime or take vpon her anie such authoritie I heare of none but of the common aduersaries and you nowe which arâ— our brethren that cast foorth anie such spéeches Al-be-it I ioyne not you and them in like condition For they most malitiously doe anowe and blase it you onely say it seemeth but whether to them or to the people or to your selues it seemeth that you tell vs not But it seemeth ye will exempt your selues and I am glad thereof for I would not haue it that you who are our brethren in Iesu Christe and her Maiesties truâ— meaning subiectes as we are should haue either your eyes dazeled or the verie paper whereon you write to be stayned with the supition or but with seeming to suspect such false foggie and infectiue mystes aâ— those are If ye be Iealouse of them to driue this myste away it is well done so that in this Iealousie to driue away the myste ye driue not away withall our Mistresses Supreame authoritie It is no reason her Maiestie should loose her cleare right vnder pretence that a myste dazeleth the eyes of ignorant persons But if they be ignorant then it is for that they knowe not the trueth hereof and then is the truth of the matter cleane contrarie And although the ignorant be deceaued yet they that be not ignorant hiâ— not deceaued And can not the ignoraunt bée taught the trueth by them that are not ignoraunt The ignoraunt persons were deceaued in manie moe thinges of which ignorant persons then manie nowe thankes be to God doe knowe the trueth except such as loue mystes and darkenesse more then light But let not vs suppresse the trueth for feare of what may seeme to ignorant persons For to them truthe seemes falshoode and all that we say both of vs may seeme starke lyes But it lyeth vs vppon so much the rather to tell them the truthe and then if they will be ignorant let them be ignorant still But what is the point wherein by this myste the eyes of the ignorant persons are thus dazeled That all thinges in the Ecclesiasticall state ought to be disposed by the only high authoritie absolute power of the Christian Magistrate This indéede is a daungerous errour of ignorant persons But if any be so ignorant would this error be confirmed in them if the authoritie power of the Christian Princes were first treated vpon and throughly viewed And not rather if there be any such as holde that opinion as by our brethrens spéeches it seemeth shâ—re should hâ—â—â—nie I take it were the best waye which could be taken that this myste were first cleared and the Treatie of the Christian Princes first treated vppon least eyther the Princes should take anie such onely high authoritie and absolute power vppon them or that the people should so grossely and erroniously conceaue anie such matter of theÌ„ This is my opinion in such cases And I woulde wish you brethren to take héede howe in these your discourses let them carie what name of learning soeuer ye wil sith that the people are taught no such matter sith that her Maiestie taketh no such absolute power vppon her but as becommeth a good Christian Prince that which of right pertaineth to her Maiesties royall office and most godly with all humilitie patience and â—uldenes tempereth the Iustice of the same you abuse not too much her Maiesties clemencie that deserueth no such sclaunders nor suspitions at your hâ—ndes Whâ—e put you such surmises in the peoples heads if they were ignorant to deceaue them worse For this is the way to make the people eyther become Atheistes as only and absolutely to depende on the Prince in all matters and causes Ecclesiasticall or to grudge against her Maiestie as taking on her such an onely highe authoritie and absolute power to dispose all thinges in the state Ecclesiasticall What could her open professed enemies haue sayde worse Saue that they no lesse impudently then falsely like arrant Traytors doe not shame to affirme it and should you brethren come after those shamelesse children of Beliall and say But while we speake of Ecclesiasticall gouernment it may be thought of some that we should intreate first of the Supreame authoritie of Christian Princes where-upon it seemeth that all the regiment of the Church dependeth which is such a myste to dazell the eyes of ignorant persons that they thinke all thinges in the Eccles. state ought to be disposed by the onely high authoritie and absolute power of the ciuill Magistrate What suspicious spéeches and byous glaunces vnder the name of some and of it seemeth and of they thinke are heere cast â—oorth and all this thinking and seeming to some is turned to the people and to ignorant persons they poore soules must beare the fault of all What is raysing of mystes dazeling of eyes walking in cloudes yea daâ—â—sing naked in a net and when all the worlde
Iudges at home in our seuerall Congregations bicause S. Paule prescribed the Corinthians so to haue and that all such publike Iudges to serue a whole realme or countrie were not lawfull or were néedlesse bicause in the Primitiue Church they had no suche publike Christian Iudges for a whole realme or countrie might not this growe to the manifest iniurie not onelie of th◠Iudges but of all the whole common-weale Yea might not the Christian Prince feare that by the same rule if it were true that ye saye there was no Christian Prince then when the Churche was perfect in all her regiment he might be driuen cleane out of his ciuill regiment too and out of all not supreame onelie but anye authoritie at all among the Christians and cleane dispossessed of his kingdome except he would content himselfe to be a Iudge chosen in one particuler citie So that neither inheritance nor a whole Realme or Realmes to bee ruled by anye one christian Prince could hold any plea if such rules might be coined on such examples And then forsoothe the churche of GOD as before there was anye christian Prince so after they are all thrust out or reduced to that state that they were in might be saide to be perfect in all hir regiment once againe And that the Churche of God may stande and dooth stande in moste blessed state where the ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers nor beare the greatest rule but all is brought againe to the estate it was in before in the Apostles time Doo ye not sée what a most blessed estate the churche of God would come vnto by this rule And I pray you bretheren what warrant haue you more or so muche for the prescription of your Seniorie in euerie congregation as is héere prescribed by S. Paule for the choosing of this Iudge or ruler among the perticuler congregations of the christians We must take héed therfore how we stand on such examples or how we enlarge any rule that was particuler to the time or state then or to the place or persons there to be-come an ordinarie generall absolute or perpetuall rule to vs and to the whole Churche whether it be by S. Paule or by S. Peter or by any or by all the Apostles or by our Lorde and Sauiour Iesus Christe him-selfe practised yea or commanded For diuerse examples and commandements were but for certeine times states places and stretch no further As the Disciples to carrie neither golde nor siluer nor money nor scrippe nor two coates nor shooes nor staffe Matth. 10. To abstaine from things offered to Idols and from bloud and from that that is strangled Acts. 15. And that men should praye bare headed c. 1. Cor. 11. And albeit that in the commandements and rules prescribed of these things and of the like neither Christe nor his Apostles tell that they were to continue but for a time yet leueling the same by the analogie of our faithe and by the proportion of our Christian libertie we find no such necessitie in these thinges nor of any other such like orders as in the regiment of the Primitiue churche was vsed For though they were vsed as orders or as ornanaments to beautifie the blessed estate of the Churches regiment then yet neither the blessednes nor the estate therof consisted in them when they had them And if any church that now flourisheth haue any of them it is neuer the more blessed for them as of anye necessitie to the estate thereof And if any haue them not and haue other good orders of regiment established among them it is neuer the lesse blessed of God for the not hauing of them If they haue what is necessarie that sufficeth Prooue either this Seniorie to be necessarie for vs imagining there had béene any such or els all this most blessed estate resolues to nothing But neither of these is yet prooued nor I feare mee euer will bee that there were any such Gouernours at all or that we are bound in euerie particuler congregation to obeye or to haue suche a Segniorie But we are bound to haue and to obeye in all lawfull ordinances our Princes and Magistrates especiallie being Christians and fauourers and fosterers of the Churche of God defenders of the faithe setters foorth and professors of the Gospell Where suche Princes are as wee muste néedes confesse we haue except we be too vnthankefull there indéed the Churche of GOD may stand and standeth at this day in farre more blessed state with-out this Segniorie then where this Segniorie standeth and the Ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers or to speake plaine English are no fauourers at all but haters and persecuters of the Gospell And thus wee sée how weake and vntrue both these propositions of these reasons are by the which as a notable great reason in the end scars◠woorth a little currane these our Learned Discoursers auouched that it might be to euerie man so plaine that it was neither needfull nor agreeable to good order of teaching to begin first to treate of the supreame authoritie of Christian princes in ecclesiasticall causes Now a◠we thus haue séene the valor and truthe of these two propositions whereon their reason is made so let vs sée their conclusion of this reason Their conclusion is this By which it is manifest that the regiment and gouernment thereof dependeth not vpon the authoritie of princes but vpon the ordinance of God who hath most mercifullie and wiselie so established the same that as with the comfortable aide of christian Magistrats it may singulerlie flourish and prosper so without it it may continue and against the aduersaries thereof preuaile For the churche craueth helpe and defence of Christian princes to continue and go forward more peaceablie and profitablie to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christe but all her authoritie she receaueth immediatlie of God Is this then the conclusion of their reason What is this to the present question Or how hangeth this vpon the premisses Maye not th◠princes supreame authoritie in ecclesiasticall causes be first treated vpon except this must streight be concluded on it by which it is manifest that the regiment and gouernment of the churche dependeth not vpon the authoritie of princes but vpon the ordinance of God Wherefore is this so farre fetched conclusion brought in héere Before you sai◠it seemeth not yet telling to whome but now it seemeth that it seemeth so to you and that for a manifest and plaine conclusion that if the princes supreame authoritie be first spoken of then all the churches regiment dependeth on it But I cannot tell how it seemeth to you to be a manifest and plaine consequence I promise you it séemeth not so to me Nor I thinke to any man that will way the reason with any reason And yet you threape such kindnesse on vs that are God be thanked reasonable creatures also that it now goeth beyond it
the worde of God and that the rule is false which concerning this matter doeth attribute it to the Apostles which may be shewed by the ordeyning of Timothy by the Eldership It séemeth that this Learned man accounteth all the reasons which he hath already alleaged out of Epiphanius to be no reasons Else how saith he here Nowe the reasons of the same Epiphanius are these c. But howe then saide he before that Epiphanius doth bring foorth three reasons two as it were out of Gods worde c. and when he hath alleaged them in the order afore sayde the first place is 1. Tim. 5.1 c. another place is out of the same Epistle c. and traueiled as wee haue heard to confute them then as though all this while he had yet alleaged or confuted no reason he commeth in saying Nowe the reasons of the same Epiphanius are these c. What reason is in this dealing especially of such a most reuerend and learned man But if these following are his onely reasons good reason he should report them right and not make them other than they be Bishops sayth he beget the Fathers of the Church but Elders the sonnes in as much as Bishops and not Elders ordayned Bishops Doth Epiphanius reason thus Or to this purpose His wordes are these To say that a Bishop and a Priest or Elder are equall howe is it possible For the order of Bishops is the begetter of the Fathers for it begetteth the Fathers of the Church But the order of Priestes or Elders is not able to beget the Fathers it begetteth the sonnes of the Church by the regeneration of the washing but not the Fathers or the Doctors And howe was it possible for a Prieste or Elder to obtaine not hauing the laying on of handes to elect Or to say that he is equall with a Bishop The plaine meaning here of Epiphanius is this the Bishops beget that is ordayne Pastors and ministers of the worde and Sacramentes which Pastors or Ministers hee calleth Fathers or Doctors of the Church But these Pastors or Ministers whom he calleth Fathers or Doctors being no Bishops doe not againe beget that is ordaine or make other Fathers or Doctors but doe onely sayth he begette the sonnes of the Church that is the faithfull people by preaching the word and baptizing of them the Bishops therefore hauing a further authoritie to wit of making ministers then haue the ministers whom they make howe iâ— the Bishops and the ministers authoritie equall This is indéede the truâ— meaning of Epiphanius his reason He that can doe more hath more power than he which onely can doe lesse But the Bishop can do more than the Priest or Elder can doe for the Bishop can make Priests and Elders which the Priestes or Elders can not doe Therefore the bishop hath more power than the Priest oâ— Elder that is no Bishop This being in effect the argument of Epiphanius this Learned man tourned all to this that Epiphanius should say Bishops beget the Fathers of the Church but Elders the sonnes in as much as Bishops and not Elders ordayned Bishops As though he spake onely of ordayning Bishops or by Fathers ment onely bishops and by sonnes Priestes or Elders of the Churche Whereas Epiphanius confesseth bishops and Priestes or Elders both of them to be Fathers and Doctors of the Church But in this behalfe of ordayning anie of these Fathers eyther Bishops or Priestes the Bishops had a prerogatiue aboue the Priestes and so their authoritie is notequall This is the verie argument and reason that Epiphanius maketh Nowe what saith our most Reuerende and learned man to this argument But what is this else saith he then to aske to haue that which is in question And why so Epiphanius here asketh nothing The question heere iâ— this Whether Bishops and Priestes be in dignitie and authoritie equall and all one Epiphanius proueth they be not by this argument They that be equall and all one in dignitie and authoritie the one can doe in all thinges as much as the other and not one more than the other But the Bishops can make Bishops Priestes which the Priests theÌ„selues can not doe therefore Bishops Priests are not equall and all one That the B. can or the Priest can not do this which is héere auouched this is not the question but dependes vpon it or else he could make indéede no reason If nowe this assertion be vntrue improue it and neuer say what is this else than to aske to haue that which is in question But go to now What reason hath this Learned man to improue it For it may be and ought to be answered that the Bishops tooke that authoritie vpon them without warrant of the worde of God I thinke it may be indéede thus aunswered of a man that would vnreuerently sclaunder hee cares not whome and aunswere contrarie to all truthe and learning but that it ought to be aunswered so of any man and especially of a most Reuerende and Learned man be it spoken with reuerence I thinke the cleane contrarie Did not this most reuerend and learned man himselfe graunt before but euen on the other side the lease that Timothie had the authoritie of the laying on of hands And what here was that but ordeyning Bishops Pastors Except therefore all those prooues be improoued that inferre Timothie was B. of Ephesus and this of Timothy conferred with Iames and Simeon after him at Ierusalem and Titus in Creta it is apparant that Bishops tooke not that authoritie vpon them without warrant of the worde of God But thiâ— that he sayth it may be and ought to be aunswered stayeth not héere for he addeth And that the rule is false which concerning this matter doth attribute it to the Apostles Here is a rule indéede for this matter of ordeyning ministers Did not the Apostles take vpon them the authoritie to ordaine Bishops and Elders Doth not S. Paule confesse that he tooke that authoritie on him The most reuerendes far more vnreuerend deniâ—ng the manifest scripture And is Gods worde it selfe also become a false rule which is the rule of truth that attributeth this matter to the Apostles What could the open aduersaries of the word of God haue spoken worse against the word of God And how now shall this be shewed that the worde of God doth not attribute this to the Apostles Which may be shewed sayth hée by the ordeyning of Timothie by the Eldership And haue we not hearde euen by Caluine the matter clearely and at large shewed that not onely the ordeyning of Timothie was doone by Paule alone but also that it was the common vse to bee doone by Paule alone And that this woorde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Eldershippe signifieth in that place not the Colledge Consistorie or companie of Elders but the office of the Elders Yea Beza also yéeldeth so
priuate men will leaue his owne worke destitute of happie and wished successe Let the dutie also of religion prouoke thee O Queene which art to be worshipped sith that our Esay requireth not onelie of Kings that they should be nourishers of the Church but also of Queenes that they shoulde bee their nurses and so forth as he proceedeth in the Epistle In which wordes he doth on better aduisement most plainlie approue and not refuse as monstrous the gouernment of women but account it both in her Maiestie as the singular gift blessing of God vnto his church and also citeth Esaie in generall for Queenes to be the Churches nurses What shall wee saie therefore to this foresayde conclusion that Caluine made All wise men haue alwaies refused as a monster a womans gouernment I woulde gladlie salue it with expounding his wordes to be meant onelie of the wife that taketh vpon her to gouerne rule her husband But because if it should be vnderstood of this oeconomical gouernment onely then it woulde not make to Caluines purpose that women should not haue authoritie and right publikelie to teach affirming teaching to be a thing of power and higher degree he bringeth in the obiection of Debora and aunswereth the same by distinguishing the diuerse respects wherein the teachers obey their kings and other magistrates and yet gouerne in respect of teaching and saith that women cannot haue the consideration of these respects because by nature which hee calleth the ordinarie lawe of God they are borne to obey howe therefore can this conclusion For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 womens gouernment all prudent men did alwaies refuse as it were a monster be vnderstood otherwise than of the publike and ciuill gouernment And therefore accepting Caluine where he wrote trulie and reuerentlie of the matter without anie disgracing otherwise of his authoritie In this place so groselie ouershooting himselfe and the truth of the matter he can by no meanes be fullie reconciled to himselfe or ought of vs or of anie other to be alowed And so much more daungerous heerein are these his speeches as other ouer zealous among our Brethren haue gone as farre and further heereupon than heâ— did And although Danaeus fetch the matter about with a greater windlasse and with fairer spéeches for our state and most gracious Soueragine yet as in the end Caluine doth so he also driues the matter to the same pitch against not onlie the priuate gouernment of women ouer their husbaÌ„ds in domesticall matters but also against the publik gouernment of womeÌ„ in the ciuil and politicall state therefore least by any scruples in reading these men might stick in a curious mind vpon this dangerous point wherby anie man might thinke himself not fullie satisfied let vs see also weigh all Danaeus reasons on this matter And first we tâ—ke Danaeus his grant that this precept of S. Paul Let the womaÌ„ with silence learne with all subiection taketh place while women be in the publik asseÌ„bly but not when they are at their owne house because they may priuatly instruct their familie especially if ther want a Father of the houshold and that they be widows for then they both may and ought to praie vnto God to teach their children the feare of God And therefore in such sort as S. Paule calleth particular householdes particular Churches it inferreth that they may teach particular Churches also To the which I adde that which Hemingius obserueth heerevpon The second proposition of this Chapter containing an Ecclesiastical Canon concerning the discipline and manners of women In this Canon two things are commanded vnto womeÌ„ and two things are forbidden vnto them First is commanded that they should learne quietlie without tumult as becommeth them which are thrall to the lawe of subiection And then that they should in quiet deale with their owne affaires and meddle with those things that pertaine to women not shouing theÌ„selues into the businesses of men The first thing that is forbidden is that women should not teach publikelie and then that they should not vsurpe authoritie ouer men These things pertaine hereunto that an order and discipline might be in the Church Not that we should therevpon take an argument of contemning womankinde neither are they so bidden to hold their peace but it is lawfull for them to giue wholesome counsels to their husbandes if at anie time the matter seeme to require it Which thing the storie of Iudith Debora Anna and of other women doth shew Which examples inferre not onelie priuate but publike councels and authoritie also yea Abraham is commanded of the Lord that he should obey his wiues councel of casting out the handmaide Agar And also by domestical discipline to teach godlinesse yea that they may admonish their husbands of their duetie when they cease to doe it or be sluggish For Paule heere treateth of the common discipline the which excludeth not necessarie councels and deliberation of honest or worshipful women So that thus far forth they graunt them to teach or gouerne not onelie in priuate but in publike But to come to Danaeus reasons the first reason saith he which is expounded in this place is drawen a differentia from the difference which is set of God himselfe between both sexes to wit the mans and the womans The second is a genere froÌ„ the kind or general words God wold haue women neither to rule neither to teach neither to vsurp authoritie in viros ouer the meÌ„ or husbands but he that speaketh in the Church or ruleth and teacheth taketh on her ouer men a certaine gouernment authoritie therefore women neither cann either ought to speake in the church This twofold diuision of S Paules reasons which Danaeus maketh of reasoning first from the difference of the sexe then from the kind except it had ben plainer spoken is some what intricate may rather séeme to be all one For what is here the sexe but the kinde the kinde but the sexe except he take Genus for the general word and comprehend teaching in the word gouerning as though he must néeds be a gouernour that is a teacher which we haue séene already by many examples is not so But to yâ— argumeÌ„t God would neither haue women Praeesse that is to be aboue or to be before or to rule neither to teach neither to vsurpe authoritie vppon men At qui loquitur in Ecclesiasiue praeest ea et docet in viros sumit quoddam imperium et authoritateÌ„ Ergo c. But he that speaketh in the church I thinke it should rather be At quae loquitur but he that speaketh in the Church or ruleth or is aboue or before and teacheth taketh a certaine gouernment or rule authoritie vpon man Ergo women neither can nor ought to speak in the Church This Ergo neither concludeth yâ— matter that S. Paul here auoucheth nor anie part of this argument
c. We haue alreadie heard of many better haue seene also what is to be sayd of the most worst of these women But hee ought not for more odiousnesse to slander anie as that Cleopatra to raigne alone slue her brother so many credible stories testifieng the contrarie These are the best of the arguments that be maketh For all the other saue that which he hath of the Salik law are not arguments but his ouermuch intermedling in matters of estate As for the vrging of the Salike lawe wee haue séene before many better confutations of it than he alleageth anie confirmations First after he hath set downe the words of the law it self De terra vero Salica nulla portio Haereditatis Mulieri veniat sed ad virilem sexum tota tertae Haereditas perueniat to proue this law page 745. he saith At etiam Childeberti c. But also by the edict of Childebert king of the French the which is comprehended in the Salik lawes wherin the nephues are called to the succession of the grandfathers the women are remoued a farre off How doth not this deuise bewray it selfe euē as the asse in the lions skin by his ouer long eares saue that this forgerie by his ouershort reckoning of Childeberts time she weth that these Salik lawes are nothing so ancient as they pretend For if this Edict of Childebert be comprehended in the Salike laws and the Salike laws were made by Pharamund Here is not the nephue succeding the grandfather but rather the grandfather succeding the nephues nephue If not the great grandlie father to these Salike laws intruding it selfe to exclude womens gouernment But to fortifie this better saith Bodinus And verily if there were no Salike lawe when as for the tipe of the gouernmēt there was strife between Philip earle of Valois king Edward Philip maintained the Salik law Lege Voconia by the law of Voconius but Edward maintained the protection of his cause by the hereditarie laws of the Romanes a decree was made by the consent of all the Fathers and Princes that no man in that disputation should vse the authoritie of forain laws but that euery man should study to interpret the Salike lawe for his right To what purpose should they so doo if there had bene no Salike lawe What kind of reason shall we call this Might not Philip and his associates faine such a law or might they not wreast it or misconster it if there had bene anie such an one Or might it not haue ben as well antiquated and altered as long before that time Voconius lawe was For if Voconius Lawe had at that time stoode in force howe coulde King Edward haue pleaded his right frō the Hereditarie lawes of the Romanes Was not Voconius and his law Romane But such broken stuffe as Voconius lawe was good plea for Philips broken title and for the Salike laws defence As for king Edwards plea from the Romane hereditarie laws thē in force sheweth that the Romane laws were not against womens titles And that they wer in force also euen in France which was a good plea. Albeit King Edward pleaded higher euen from the law of nations and from the written lawe of God Yea but faith Bodinus when Philip made a decree with the consent of all the Fathers Princes that none should vse in this disputation the authoritie of foraine lawes but euerie one studie to interpret the Salike law for his right why wold they so haue done if there had ben no Salike lawe This is a proper proofe of the autentike force and truth of the Salike law and praise of their vpright lawes that they set out to vphold their Salike law withall When Philip sawe that king Edward pleaded the law of God the lawe of Nations and the ciuill lawe of the Romanes which law stood then forcible euen in France by by he forbad such pleas and calleth them all foraine lawes So that for this Salike lawe the French nation renounceth the lawe of all nations yea maketh Gods lawe a foraine lawe to bring in this Heathen Salike lawe Was not this Philip a most Christian king that made this decree And why thē vsed he Voconius law was not this forain But in forbidding al foreine laws did he not forbid the Salike lawe withall Which was a law if there were anie sueh of the olde Francons at that time as yet now long before of the germaines bordering on the riuer Sala not néere anie part of Gallia He forbiddeth al men to vse anie so much as disputation in these other lawes that were not forein Where learned he this example of them that forbad the Disciples to speake anie more in Christs name But Philip goeth further charging not onely to vse onlie the Salike law but to studie also how to interpret it for his right What meant he by that would he haue them studie to hale and writhe with their misconstructions the interpretation of the lawe for his purpose What a foule practise was that and indéed if we confer this with their own Chronicles we have heard how when he could not stop their mouths thus that among the French defended king Edwards title he put them to death Yea but saith Bodinus could they haue done this had there bene no Salike law And is this then Bodinus his best conclusion God wot this is but a sorie conclusion to proue the truth of this law or the force of it when Philip was faine with such vnlawfull lawes yea with death it selfe to restrain thē that called the credit therof in questiō But I wold learne what Philip meant by this law that they shuld studie to interpret the Salik law for his right Doth this law thē admit diuers interpretations that such interpretations that it may be interpreted otherwise thā Philip cōmanded thē to studie how they might interprete it for his title And that they must bee fain to studie out such an interpretation of the law Yea verilie For if we shall reade Hottomans Francogallia cap. 8. although hee also be against womens gouernment He sheweth how greatly both the Hystoriographers also the Lawiers haue erred Insomuch saith he that almost the errour hath mede the lawe To the confutation whereof after he hath shewed of the second kingdome of the Francons the one in Gallia now called Fraunce the other beyond the Rhene at the riuer of Sala from whence those Francons were called Salij or Salikes whose both kingdome name is now well neere worne out of vse he telleth of their foure peeres and Indges Wisogast Arbogast Salogast Windogast and that frō this Salogast they saie that the law was found which of him euen to this daie is called Salike of his name whereby theyr errour may bee reproued that name the Lawe Salike of Salte that is prudence or that thinke the word Gallica to be corrupted into Salica then the which
both the best and best learned of them haue consulted vppon and consented vnto haue agreed vpon and decreed also the same lawes that yet it shall not be lawfull to her Maiestie bycause of the dissent of a few other whome she knoweth not to be her Pastors to make any lawes at all of Ecclesiasticall matters or to looke to the reformation of religion why might not the Papists vse this reason as well as our Brethren to debarre her Maiesties right and authoritie héerein yea did not they vse the selfe-same reason pleading that they were the Pastors of the Realme and so her Maiesties Pastors also and that she could not looke to the reformation of Religion nor make lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall contrarie to their knowledge and consenting for at her Maiesties first entrie into her raigne as she carefully looked before all other things to the reformation of Religion and to make godly lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters so the Popish Pastors which then were most in number and greatest in power and were in dutie her Pastors also if they had perfourmed their dutie dutifully which they did not neyther can we denie but that they or many of them were learned also if they had had grace aunswerable to learning and had submitted their learning to truth and not deteyned others in blindnesse of ignorance to mainteine their errors was it not lawfull therefore vnto her Maiestie to looke to the reformation of religion and to make lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall bycause it was contrarie to their acknowledging and to their consenting yes she perfourmed all this mawger their withstanding and she did well yea most excellent well in her so doing not yet as the Papists cried out and still crie that she did contrarie to the knowledge of her learned Pastors for they accounted none to be learned Pastors nor at all to be Pastors but themselues But her Maiestie did these things with the consent of those that were both Pastors and her Pastors too and her learned Pastors and euen by learning it was tried and by the better learning of her better learned Pastors vicit veritas the truth had the victorie and Poperie was confounded And so her Maiestie made her lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters and reformation of Religion with the consent of her learned Pastors and established them with the approbation and authoritie of all the states of the Realme and Church of England and hath God be praysed happily continued till now of late as though we had not inough to do with the continuall maligning sclaunders and practises of the Popish Pastors and their adherents we fall out vnhappily among our selues and as her Maiesties godly and learned Pastors ioyned then with her Maiestie against the Popish Pastors in displacing them with all their errors and superstitious Ecclesiasticall lawes and reformed religion and made these lawes Ecclesiasticall that are now as yet in force so a new kinde of Pastors begin a new stur and are weary of these Ecclesiasticall lawes and of this reformation and of all these Pastors calling themselues the faithfull Ministers that seeke the reformation of the Church of England and would trie these matters againe by learning and so among other theyr bookes writings thereon haue now at length set forth to all the realme this learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment and her Maiestie must now reuoke all the reformation and Ecclesiasticall lawes that she hath then and since made with her learned Pastors that then were and begin afresh both to turne out all those Pastors for no right ordeyned Pastors and to make new lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters and a new reformation with their consents that say they be now her learned Pastors and on these conditions they wil admit her title of supremacy and her authority to do these things or else not If her Maiesty now shall heare of this what may she thinke thereon how may she comfort her selfe and warrant her actions in all things that she hath done already for if they were well done they may well continue if they may not well continue but must be vndone it is an argument they were not well done But her Maiesty though this be no small grief vnto her to haue all her doings thus ript vp againe by her owne subiects and professors of the same Gospell that she professeth and though it be no small triumph to the aduersaries of the Gospell and argument for them to descant vpon against her Maiestie and against both our Brethren and vs and all true Protestants yet let not her most excellent Maiesty be disinayed hereat though indéede it be a great corsie but when her Maiesty looketh on the grounds of the matter and not on the vnthankfulnes and mutabilitie of men and lifteth vp her eyes to heauen from whence commeth her saluation how mightely God hath blessed and defended her and prospered these things vnder her hands her Maiesty shall receyue a greater comfort and confirmation against all the treasonable practises of those her deadly aduersaries of the one partie and all the dangerous innouations of these her ouer-zealous subiects on the other party and represse them both in iustice and mercie with safe continuance and good successe God willing of all her Maiesties reformation and lawes that she hath made of Ecclesiasticall matters hetherto with the knowledge and consent of those that then were or yet are her learned Pastors And except these our new Pastors that would be haue any better learning not yet reuealed than is conteyned in this their learned discourse the learned Pastors that are now in place and in Pastorall authoritie will by Gods grace maynteyne and defende by truth and sound learning their authorities and the Ecclesiasticall lawes that her Maiesty hath made with their knowledge consents welynough I warrant them And let our Brethren to begin withall looke to this point better For sith they graunt it is her Maiesties authoritie to make Lawes of Eccl. matters so that she take from the Pastor none of these 3. offices Preaching Ministring the Sacraments nor the Eccl. Gouernment from them the Queenes Maiestie hauing made her Lawes without doing any of these thrée thinges nor hauing taken from the Pastor the thirde any more then the two first Let them looke to it both how they disobey the Lawes she hath made and how they cast foorth such suspitious sclaunders on her Maiestie as though in making her Lawes she did take the Pastors Ecclesiasticall gouernment from him By this it appeareth howe farre it is lawfull for Princes to intermeddle with causes Ecclesiasticall namely that it is the cheefest point of their duty to haue speciall regard that God may be glorified in their dominion and therefore they ought to make ciuill Lawes to binde the people vnto the Confession of the true fayth and the right administring and receiuing of the sacraments and to all Ecclesiasticall orders that they being instructed by the worde of God through the
the Princes authority that none but the Prince can doe and this prerogatiue be to make such Ecclesiasticall lawes as some of these Princes Lawes were howe doeth not this seruice plainely include the Princes supreme gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes And sith this seruice of the Princes vnto Christ consisteth principally in making lawes for Christ no maruell then if the holy ghost exhort Princes to be wise and to be learned and to vnderstand as the most necessary thing for them to vnderstand the state of the Ecclesiasticall gouernment So that if their Clergie forstowe to doe their duetie yet the Prince by this wisedome learning and vnderstanding might as well be able to giue aduise againe if néede be euen to his Cleargie in the making of many Ecclesiasticall lawes and orders as to take aduise of them As wee sée how diuers of the forenamed Princes did and that by their authoritie with the aduice of wise and learned men both make lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters and haue a supreme gouernment in the maintenance and direction of them Musculus writing on these woordes And now ye kings vnderstande c. The nations and people saith he and much more say I the Clergie are not excluded but Kings Iudges are by name called to bethinke them selues euen for this cause that they are the heads of the nations and of the people conteyning in the nation Clergie and al to whome it principally apperteineth to be subiect vnto the Lord and to giue themselues to bee leaders of the people that are their subiects vnto this true obedience For in two respects it standeth them vpon to be obedient to the Lord first bicause they are subiect to his power as are all other mortall men and then because they are made his peculier Ministers to this purpose that hauing receaued power ouer their subiectes they shoulde both their selues the will of God and cause their subiects to be obedient to it And Marlorate vpon these wordes Serue the Lord in feare noting out of Caluin saith Princes therefore in this place are admonished that they shall then raigne happilie when their power is nothing else but Gods seruice That is to say where in commaunding and bidding they serue not their owne lust but gods will neither vsurpe that tyrannical speech Sic volo sic iubeo stet proratione voluntas Thus wil I haue it thus I bid it be it stands for reasō that it pleaseth me But they say Sie volo sic iubeo quia sic divina volunt as mandat cui soli cuncta subesse decet thus will I haue it thus I bid it be because this is the will of Gods decree He bids it bee to whome what ere he say all creatures will they nill they ought obey Let them also note this place which deny the power of the king secular Magistrat as they cal him to haue ought to do in a cause of a religion For although the kingdom of Christ be in the harts of the beleeuers notwithstanding it apperteineth to the Magistrate to haue a care that the doctrine of the word may be retined in the Church that Idolatry and false worship may bee taken awaye that the Ministers of the church may be commodiously mainteined that the aduersaries may be repressed then to forbid the name of God to be blasphemed to bring to passe that such as leade a godly life may liue in safety but the wicked persons those that are vnquiet may be punished restrained ned This then is the Princes seruice vnto God And is not this as much as to make good Eccl. lawes orders with the aduice counsell of the wise godly learned clergy as hath done and doth her Maiestie But now our brethren after they haue tryed whether they shoulde preuaile by these two aforesaid testimonies least these should not preuail in striuing against the Princes authority in Eccl. matters they adioyn a third vnto them out of the new testament saying And especially it is to be noted where S. Paule commaundeth prayers and supplications to be made for the conuersion of kings vnto the knowledge of the truth and their own saluation that he alleageth this reason that we may leade a quiet and peaceable life in all godlines honesty vnder their protection A godly honest life we may liue vnder enimies of the church persecutors but a peaceable and quiet life in all godlines honesty onely vnder a christian Prince If they do it as paraphrasts by way of some part of exposition they adde these words well vnder their protection But in that they set them downe as the words of the text me thinketh it somwhat ouer bold so to cite the holy scripture or yet as paraphrasts if they so limite the end of our prayers and supplications for Kings Princes which in these three benefites that the Apostle citeth stretcheth a great deale farther than to protection onely For as Dauid and other godly Princes were they may be both protectors and procurers of the same yea the chiefe gouernors and directors in the setting foorth and maintenance of them Neither is S. Paules exhortation to pray for Princes to be restrained onely to the praiers supplications to be made for the conuersion of kings vn the knowledge of the truth but it stretcheth further yea generally as well for those that are conuerted as those that are to be conuerted as well to giue thanks for the one as to pray for the other not onely for their owne saluation but that by their meanes all their subiects likewise may attaine to the way of saluation He reckoneth vp saith Caluine the fruits that spring vnto vs out of a principality that is well ordered the first is a quiet life For the magistrats are armed with the sword to kepe vs in peace Except they should beate downe the audaciousnes of wicked men al things would be ful of robberies slaughters c. The second fruit is the conseruation or saluation that is to wit while the Magistrats indeuour to nourish religion to plant the worship of God to require the reuerence of holy thinges The 3. is the care of publike honestie c. If these 3. things be taken away what is the state of mans life if any care therfore either of publike tranquility or of Godlines or of honesty touch vs let vs remember to haue consideration of them by the ministery of whom so excellent things do come into vs. Thus doth Caluin confesse that the Ministery of the Prince stretcheth as far foorth in procuring vnto vs the benefit of religion as of the other twain therfore he concludeth that we must pray for Princes aswell as much if not much more for this benefite as for the other Yea saith he If any man shall aske whether prayer ought also to bee made for the Kings of whom we receaue no such thing I
l. 1. than 830 l. 6 are not 831 l. 13â— is 836 l. 22 dele the heaâ—ing 839 l. 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 840 l. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 841 l. 1 1. Tim. 4.844 l. 9 some gouernement in the church seperated both from others and from this sole 85 1 l. 46 neither 855 l. 42 vnpreaching 856 l. 8. perusall 876 l. 28 proportion ib. margi Theophilact 787 l. 9 life 883 l. 13 the. 914 l. 13 Epistle 922 l. 37 yee 923 l. 40 of elders 924 l. 26 them 938 l. 21 driueth 942 marg 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 943 l. 36 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 962 l. 21 driue vs. 972 l. 3 chosen counsels 975 l. 3 dele for 993 l. 13 whosoeuer 994 l. 6 is 996 l. 37 assessors 1002 l. 35 they 1003 l. 8 Sari 1007 l. 28 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1029 l. 4 that 1037 lâ— 35 any thing 1044 l. 19 is 1048 l. 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1052 l. 10 meere 1057 l. 4 confute 1062 l. 24 and him 10â—3 l. 42 disputed 1114 l. 33 to be 1116 l. 27 or shee 1120 l. 17 communion 1138 l. 32 them 1144 l. 2 discourses and. 1152 l. â— all alike 1164 l. 1 seate l. 14 came l. 32 confirme 1176 l. 26 as 1182 l. 25 then no. 1295 l. 14 distractions 1198 l. 28 dele worthie 1204 l. 13. humor 1209 l. 36 to 1216. l. 9 still 1236 l. 4 seuerelie 1243 l. 12 is 1244 l. 6 which 1251 l. 37 crie 1254 l. 21 dele pro. 1255 marg proiudiciall 1256 l. 22 without 1261 l. 3 reference 1266 l. 2 no. 1287 l. 13 Seigniorie 1317 l. 28 the. ib. l. 39 40 Lord Bishop 1325 l. 3 reference 1348 l. 2 they â—350 l. 41 seate 1357 l. 2â— God 1361 l. 16 be 1365 l. 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1366 marg artic ib. marg reference These lines following are to be referred vnto the endes of their seuerall pages as they are here quoted thus as they ministred before by preaching vnto his beautie which hath there for the time bin vnworthilie defiled here committed the churches consent yet that the regiment is a consent of them is doubtfully Gal. 5. â— 1. Pet. 5.8.9 Psal. 133. Prou. 6.16 Ioh. 54.27 Ioh. 15.11.12 Ioh. 16.33 Gal. 4.15 Math. 12.28 1. Esd. 3.35 Phil. 4.5 Eccl. 4.28 Rom. 12.18 Phil. 1.9 10 11. The Preface 1. Pet. 1.9.10 Lamen 1.2.3 4. Ioel. 2. Bridges Our BrethereÌ„s abusing of the spirit of God and of the Propheâ—s lamâ—tations S. Peters Testimony wrested The acknowledgement of our sins and Gods wrathe The fault in our selues not in our Lawes and Orders The True Causes of our ioye mourning 1 Iohn 2. The causes of our brethrens mourning Preface Bridges Her Mâ— his most ho. counsell wrongfully challenged Her Maiest reigne not tempestuous Her Maieâ—â— comfort to the ministery Her Maiest her moste hon counsels zeale care wrongfully burdened of our brethreÌ„ for not driuing out of the Cananits c. How farre christians are charged with that coÌ„mandement Difference of the opeÌ„ couert obstiuare and weake papists Her Ma. her moste hon counsels zeale care in planâ—ing pruning and hedging of the L. vineyarde Our bretherens restraining the authority of her Maiesty VVhom our brethren meane by Cananits Foxes The impediments of endâ—ng this ciuill warre The raisers of this ciuill warre The Preface Nehem. 4.2.3.4 Nehem. 4.7 Neh. 6.5.6 Neh. 10.11.12 Ioel. 19. Amos. 8.11.12.13 Bridges VVhom our brethren cal Cananits foxes How these termes redounde on themselues The peaceable and reasonable way that our brethren deuise of reconcilement The regiment cannot be christian and happie wheral the godly learned and faithfull ministers sâ—ffer affliction Our brethreÌ„ graunt the church of Eng. regiment to be christian happie Our brethrâ— causers of their ownâ— afflictionâ— The afflictions whereof our brethreÌ„ complaine Our Bretherens vnbrotherly sclauÌ„ders Our bretherâ—ns and our building Our bretherens nearer imitation of those Hammonits c. Who are lyker to vnder miners RevYlinge The displacinge of our Bretheren Our Brethâ—rens Learning godlines The Priestes mouâ—ning The famine prophesied of Amos. 8 11.12 13 How we are rather glutted then famâ—shed with Gâ—ds word Our bretherens contentions make the worde the searser Preface The way that our brethreÌ„ seâ—ke of reconcilement The inconuenience of publishing bookes without authority The thinges that our brethren seeke for haue no necessity of truth out of the Scripâ—ures No good pâ—obability of truth out of the scriptures Preface Bridges How farre forth they yeeld autority to her Maiesty The learning godlinesse moderation of the debaters If the debaters shoulde be moderat men then should our brethren vse more moderation in their tearmes not be so peremptory in their dealing The debating of the questions the allowing of them The manner of the debating Who shal be the determiner Preface Act. 15.7 1. Cor. 14.13 32. 1. â—or 2.4 Bridges The naked triall of the matter Our brethreÌ„s desire to conferre by waye of prophesying Lordlie carriyng awaye the matter Preface 1. Cor. 14.33 Act. 14.16 Bridges Bitternes to be left off Charging of men dead and aliue Mouing affections The alleaging of the late and ancient writers Preface Bridges Our bretherens presupposal of our obiections The 1. obiection of coÌ„parison betweene the Archb. B. our bretheren ComparisoÌ„ of age and youth CoÌ„parison of learning CoÌ„parison of authority The 2. obiection of our bretherens chalenge to be not vnlike the papists chalenge The 3. obiection of preiudice to the estate of gouernement established Bridges Our brethrens answer to these three obiections The ambiguitie of this answer The quieting of all The remoouing of the plagues Our brethrens bold and humble request vpoÌ„ their knees Preface Ioh. 32.7.8 Ioh. 32.21.22 2. Chron. 30.1.5.23 ver Act. 15.23 Gal. 1.1 Act. 11. â— 2.3.4 c. Doctor Whitegiftes book p. 389. Bridges Our bretherens aunswere to the first obiect in yeelding for yeares learning Their exception of the reuelation of Gods spirit Our Replie Our bretherens examples Ezâ—chias The Apostles and Elders Act. 15. S. Paul Gal. 1. â— Ezechias dealing with the priests and Leuites The exaÌ„ple of Hezechias and the Leuites coÌ„ futeth our brethren The example also of the apostles and elders Act. 15. is cleane against theÌ„ Our bretherens gifts in interpreting the scriptures not denied Though diuerse doctors in learning excelled yet in gouernmeÌ„t they were inferiour Our bretherens haling of the Archbishops wordes Our bretherens intricat speeches Our bretherenâ— refusall to subscribe to the Arch. aâ—ticles The articles 1. Article of the supremacy the 2. article of the communion booke The 3. Arti. of the book of articles Ano. 1562 The inconueniences of refusing to subscribe to the â—se â—seâ—â— articles The cleargâ—es subscription in K. Ed. time How dangerous our brethrens pretence is of straining conscience Preface Bridges ComparisoÌ„ of number for fewnesse or multitud Our bretherens exceptions from our nuÌ„ber Of ignoraÌ„t
Our Breth Gouernors and Pastors and their elections haue no proofe in Gods word Our Breth vnthankfulnesse to the Byshops Princes making lawes Our Breth prescribing lawes to the Prince Our Breth yeelding to the Prince to make lawes for Ecclesiasticall matters The examples of Princes that made such lawes Our Breth restraining of they graunted before to Princes Restraine of Princes making lawes Laws made contrary to the Pastors knowledge Her Maiesties lawfull making laweâ— for Eccl. matters Her Maiesties lawes not made contrarie to the Pastors knowledge Princess lawes in Eccl. matters The Papists vsed the selfe-same reason that our Breeth do against the Princes lawes Her Maiesties lawes against the Papists errors Our Breth dealing against her Maiesties lawes in Ecclesiastical matters On what conditions our brethren will admit her Maiesties supremacie Her Maiesties comfort against these dealings Our Paâ—tors defence of her Maiesties authoritie and lawes against these new Pastors The learned disc pa. 141. Bridges All our Br. graunt of making lawes of Eccl. matters is turned only to ciuill lawes The auncieÌ„t Princes intermedling What intermedling in Eccl. matters our Br. allow to Princes The auncient Princes intermedling The Popes and our Brethrens allowance to Princes Our Breth allowance to Princes for bodily punishments The Popes allowance to Christian Princes The auncient Princes lawes Our Brethren incur bodily punishment by their own grauÌ„t The learned disc pa. 141. 142 Bridges The examples of the auncient Christian Princes authoritie The Princeâ— commaunded the Cleargie to consult and determine on the truth of controversies in doctrine and ceremonies The Emperours dealing The Emperours doingâ— in the Counâ—els Socrates lib. 1. cap. 6. The Empeâ—ours Epistle to the Byshop for the keeping of Easter day The Emperours ownâ— confession of his dealing in the Nicene Counsell The doingâ— of the Emperours deputies iâ— the Counsels The Empâ—rour his selfe appointeth the Byshop of Constantinople The Emperour his selfe disputeth with Heretikes in the Counsell The maner of the Emperours approuing the confession of the true beleeuers The Byshops letters desiring the Emperour to ratify their decrees The Emperour ratiâ—yeth or â—eiecteth all the actes of the Counsell The Emperours Deputies doing in the Counsell The Empresse and the Emperour The Emperour requested to coÌ„maund the Byshop to examin the controuersies and to haue them referred to him as Iudge The Empresse together with the Emperour summoneth the generall Counsell The Emperours presumption of the proceeding in the Counsell The Emperour and Empresse in thâ— Counsell and the cause of their comming thether Iustinian The Emperours dealings Constantinus Pogonatus The Byshop of Romes obedience to the Emperour in the Counsell The Byshop of Romes obedience to the Emperour The Byshop of Romes confession that the Emperour is Christs Vicar in carth c. The Emperour confirmeth the Counsels definition with his total assent The french Kings gouernment of the Ecclesiasticall state Clodoueus in the Counsell at Orleance Guntranus in the Counsell of Matiscone The King had the appointing of the Bishops The Kings decree for annuall Synodes The Kâ—ngs within the Churches discipline The french kings dealings The Counsell refer all their Decrees to the amending of the Prince The Edict of Charles the great to the Bishops and Pastors of Churches The Kings commissioners ioined with the Byshops for the Churches discipline The King taking vpon him the correction of Eccl. maâ—ters is no presumption The Christian Kings ought to follow the examples of the good Kings in the old Testament The princes charge for preaching Alcuinus in praefas lib. de Trinitate Of the princes preaching and priestly power Ludonicus pius his authoritie and dealing in Eccl. matters Ludouicus charge to the Bishop The kinges of spaynes dealinges The examples of the Christian Princes authoritie in the kings of Spayne Richaredus in the CouÌ„cell at Toledo The kinges performing the office of an Apostle The care charge and auth of the Prince for discipline The kinges decree for the peoples confession of their faith at the communion The Spanish kings dealings The dooings of diuerse kinges of Spaine in Councels eccl matter 's The authoritie and dealings of the auncient kinges in this our Britannie Eleutherius acknowlegment of tâ—e kings authoritie in this Realme The Saxon kings dealinges and lawes The lawes of the Saxon kings in eccl matter 's The lawes of king Inas Cap. 1. of the ministers liues Cap. 2. of Infantes Cap. 3. of working on sunday The lawes of the SaxoÌ„ Kings Chap. 4. of the first frutâ— of the seedes Chap. 5. of the Churcheâ— libertie The lawes of Aluredus in eccl matters Act. 15. Aluredes lawes The imposing of pecuniarie mulctes Why a traitors punishment should be capitall King Aluredes owne writing of his sanctions The kings abrogating vnprofitable constitutions The lawes of Edw. the Senior King Alureds collection of the former kings lawes The auth of the other kinges here mentioned The eccl lawes that Aluredus set forth The lawes in eccl mat of Edward the elder of Athelstan king of the east Angles The Princes penall lawes ioyned to the eccl K. Ethel staneslawes 8. and 9. The lawes of Ethelstan in eccl matters The kinges B. Nobles and all the subiectes to pay their iust tithes The lawes of Edmund in eccl matters The Clergies chast life which chastitie was shewed before that it debarred not in B Pastors matrimonie Tythes first fruts almes Reparations of churches Periury and idolatrie The lawes of Edgar in Eccl. â—atters Howe farrâ— these decreeâ— are are not allowable Canutuâ— his Lawes of Eccl mâ—tâ—ers The peace honor of God next after the Princes The Churches orders and digniâ—ies to bee maintained Canutus Lawes for the purgatioÌ„ of a preeste â—ccused The Lawes of Canutus Apurgation of a DeacoÌ„ sclaundered Canuâ—â—â— Lawes for degrees of mariâ—ge Receiuing the Communion thrise a yere Fayth life Duties of Lords to tâ—eir vassâ—iles Obedience to the Teachers Charge to euerie christiaÌ„ to learn â—he L. praier the articles of their beleefe None that hath not learned these things to be admittâ—d to the Communion c. Auoidance of greeuous crimes and repentaunce To flee whoredom The feare of Gods iudgementes The duty of B. Pastors The king tâ—acheth all estates Eccl. and lay The Clergies aduise to the K. This auth of Princes confuteth our Br. restraint therof The Princes doing all by the Clergies aduise debarreth not their supreme authoritie Her Maiestâ—es supremacie The learned disc pa. 142. Bridges The K. follouing of aduise It is no subiection to follow Counsaile How the Counsellers determine how not Vnfaithfull Counsellers The learned disc pa. 143. Bridges The K. dealing by aduise Their examples of the Empire Fraunce Spaine and England cleane against them Their conclusion of reason froÌ„ Counsell aduisement Their reason either against all reason or against themselues The learned disc pa. 143. Bridges Princes seuaunts to the commoÌ„ weale and Lawes This seruice no debasing of their authoritie Aug. in Epist. 48.
graunt they can be godlie to and yet dissent from all these thinges that our brethren seeke for it argueth that they are not of such necessitie but that men may be learned moderate and godly to though not onely they haue not these thinges that our Brethren seeke for but that also they be of a contrarie opinion And if this may be so among the learned I sée not why it may not be so likewise among the vnlearned and so among vs all in generall Our learning our modestie our godlinesse is no whit preiudiced by the want or refusall of these things that our brethren seeke for And if it be no preiudice to these thrée vertues no more is it preiudice to any other and so these thinges that our brethren seeke for may be altogether as well spared as receiued nor haue anie necessitie at all in them But nowe since they on their side which likewise we denie not in thē but so farre foorth congratulate the same vnto them shall haue both learned godly and moderate men also yet would wee gladly vnderstande this whether this shal be counted a péece of their moderation to vse such broade language as hath passed alreadie euen in the giuing this aduice nay would God it might cease here but all this learned discourse is pestered with such and with more immoderate spéeches against the poore ministers against all the Bishops and against all vs their brethren yea against the Prince and all the whole state of the Church Me thinketh if we should haue moderate men on their side also that wee might make good exception against all these that call themselues here all the faithfull ministers as not moderate men But vpon hope of their better moderation on this moderate admonition our request vnto them is that at leastwise for the time of this debating they would lay aside al this so peremptorie vrging of necessitie with all these and such other vndecent termes and violent demeanour in this conference Well nowe when her Maiestie and their honours shall haue agréed vpon the men how shall they procéede in handling the matter So that first say they vpon sufficient consideration the questions to be debated be without all ambiguitie set downe This first point so farre as it stretcheth is right good reason and we holde well with it that the questions to be debated should be set downe vpon sufficient consideration had of them and then beeing sufficiently considered to be matters requisite to be debated vppon to be set downe without all ambiguitie But here-vpon ariseth another question and me thinketh no lesse to be also sufficiently considered who shall haue this sufficient consideration of the questions that are to be set downe whether they be fit questions or no And who shall cut off all ambiguities that the questions may be cleare and plaine What shall anie of the parties themselues or both the parties that must debate and dispute vppon them Or shall her Maiestie and their honours that appointed the parties appoint the Questions Or some other learned godlie and moderate men but also appointed by them to be the moderators of the disputation betwéene them If now such moderators shall- be agréed vpon also to allow of the questions that shall- be set downe how shall they begin to procéed in reasoning The reasons say they of both sides without all out-goeings shortlie and plainelie deliuered in writing each to other What And shall they doo it then all by writing Indéed that is a sure way for by that meanes there shall be lesse escapes of the partie reasoning and lesse euasions from his aduersarie and lesse moouing the affections of the hearers with the action of the person when the reasons are deliuered in writing And the other partie so receauing the arguments shall againe with more aduisement and lesse perturbing peruse and weygh the force of the reasons and more shortlie and plainelie without all out-goings graunt denie or distinguish the same And they againe receiuing this answer in writing which the partie auoweth to stand vnto may better perceiue what they haue to confirme or to impugne and still on both sides with the lesse explication of their senses by mouth goe more roundlie and resolutelie to the argument it selfe setting aside all circumstances till at length the one side be driuen to a demurre or issue that all that argument must relie vpon and looke for the finall sentence and determination of the matter But what shall we héere doo Who shall now determine that issue betwéene them Shall the foresaid moderators or anie other iudges For their spéeches séeme to allow none But that the disputers among themselues it all determine all the matter or without anie determinations take it for a cleare case as though it were determined For saie they That after vpon sufficient examination the reasons of both be continuallie confirmed and resolued till either by the euidence of truth one part yeeld vnto the other or the follie and madnesse of those which gainesai it doo in equall iudgement become manifest in regarde of the contradictions and absurdities whereto they shall be driuen by the force of Gods worde And might we conceiue anie assured hope that if our bretheren were by this meanes conuicted that then they would yeelde Or if they or we had anie such madnesse or follie not to yeelde but still to gaine-saie the euidence of truth and incurre contradictions and absurdities wherevnto they or we should be driuen by force of Gods word should none betwéene them and vs haue this equall iudgement to make this become manifest This therefore were to leaue the matter still vndetermined except there were also some appointed to be in equall iudgement betwéene the parties the determiners of the matter As for our parts we neuer refused or by Gods grace shall refuse anye waie that her Maiestie and their honors shall thinke méete whereby our brethren might be satisfied But we shall sée in this learned discourse how their selues except they also be the onelie determiners of the questions betwéene vs reaching euen to the highest pointe of the Princes authoritie vtterlie reiect both this and all other waies for the finall determination of them But now supposing all will fall out well on their side they procéed saying Which waie though it should come naked vnto vs cannot well be refused but being richlie attired with all robes and ornaments which the scripture giueth vnto the synodicall assemblies for such conferences as namelie that there be much searching of the truth by sufficient reasoning without all by matters quarrels euasions and coulours whatsoeuer that there be much order when the spirit of euerie prophet shall be subiect vnto the spirits of other prophets and the iudgement of all shall be sufficientlie heard without stopping of free and sufficient aunswer without lordlie carrying awaie of the matter with no substance of reason where no authoritie pregnancie of wit plausible persuasion of mans