vnder Sense and so can bee no Marke at all Sophisticall for that of that which we confesse to be a true Attribute of the Church hee would conclude a discerning Marke But all Attributes are not Markes Now Eriphilus refell mine Argument or graunt mee I pray you some respite from burning for without merite you haue al-readie burned too manie vpon humour Philadelphus You could not away Eriphilus with my Sonnets but as I thinke Eubulus Syllogismes are no lesse pricking Philomathes But I pray you Eubulus how-so-ever your Reasons are subtill and I can not denye but builded vpon confessed Grounds and how-so-ever that Catholicke is an Attribute as you call it of the Church is apprehended by Fayth yet seeing that the moste approoved Fathers in their Disputations agaynst the Heretickes of their tymes doe presse them sore with the Authoritie of the Catholicke Church which they ordinarilie oppose vnto them it would appeare that they had some reason to doe so and that even Vniversalitie is in some respect a Marke of the true Church Neyther see I howe you can disapprooue our Mens Argument agaynst you brought from this Note except you will condemne those Famous and Auncient Fathers also as having vaynlie and sophisticallie reasoned for the Trueth Eubulus To cleare you Philomathes of all doubt heerein and to free our selues from anie eyther conscience of our owne guiltinesse where-fore we would reject this Reason or of anie vnreverend Opinion of those Fathers who as you truelie affirme in some Cases and Respectes did vse it the aequivocation of this word Catholicke must be opened vp where-by your Doctours willinglie illude and where-by your simple ones are vnwittinglie deceived For the Catholicke Church is of the Fathers so called eyther properlie and absolutelie or improperlie and but in some speciall Respect and Relation Absolutelie and most properlie the Catholicke Church is the whole number of what-so-ever tyme or place who haue beene are or shall bee vnited vnto CHRIST their Head and liue in Him by His Spirit whether heere on Earth fighting or hence in Heaven triumphing Absolutelie and lesse properlie the Catholicke Church is the whole militant companie heere on Earth of what-so-ever Kinred Tongue or Nation vnder one and the same common Ensigne of Christian Profession whether Hypocrites or true Professours whether pure or corrupt Worshippers whether Orthodox or Hereticall as even Bellarmine argueth Cap. 7. De Notis Eccles. In anie of which Cases shee is believed and in her Vniversalitie falleth not vnder Sense Improperlie agayne and in opposite Relation the Church is called CATHOLICKE for two Respects The one In opposite Relation to the Church of the Iewes which was limited within the compasse of one People and of one Region the Christian Church no more so confined but spread indifferentlie over all is called the CATHOLICKE CHVRCH Neyther thus because that eyther al-wayes all Peoples Vniversallie or moste parte of Men embrace the Gospell but because the Entrie is opened and offered indifferentlie vnto all The other Respect was the opposite Relation to hereticall Companies separating them-selues by Errour from the common Bodie of the Church Trueth mayntayned there-in And in this last Respect it is that al-most the Fathers cōmonlie speak of it calling the Cōmunitie of the Visible Church retayning Trueth in relation to particular hereticall Companies the CATHOLICKE CHVRCH And in this Sense opposing ordinarilie to arrogant men the Authoritie Multitude Consent Succession c. of the Catholicke Church as you haue alleadged Philomathes But in this manner of the Fathers reasoning two things are carefullie to bee marked whereby the Fathers shall bee found both pertinentlie and prudentlie to haue vsed this Argument where by your men now shall bee seene evidentlie and impudentlie to abuse it The first is that state and condition of the Church wherein this Argument hath place according as it was when the Fathers vsed it The second is what weight or moment the Fathers placed in it The state of the Church then was in common pure holding Trueth and by the force thereof purging or expelling all in-bred or accressing evils or Heresies So as then though by an improper Speach yet the Communalitie of the Church keeping Trueth in relation to a few Declyners might not impertinentlie bee called the Catholicke Church and her authoritie might well haue beene opposed vnto them But who in a plaine contrarie state and condition of the Church when Errour obtaineth in common and Trueth is afflicted and borne downe yet without consideration of the altered State and Condition would still vse the same reason from Multitude and what-so-ever or how-so-ever an obtaining State hee were a ridiculous Sophister confounding diverse and distinct times and cases To reason from the state of the Church in Ephesus where-in evill was not tollerated to the state of the Church in Smirna where-in Heretickes waxed prowde and despysed the abject state of true Professours it were sophisticall but much more sophisticall to reason from the state in Ephesus to the state in Pergamus when the true Church dwelt even where Satan's Throne was knowne to GOD though hid from the worldlie sort To reason from the Woman cloathed with the Sunne treading the Moone and crowned with twelue Starres to the same Woman lurking in the Wildernesse it concludeth not for as in the first Case the Fathers had reason and did wyselie to convince by all Advantages so whyle the Case is clearlie altered according as by Scripture was fore-tolde and Antichrist hath obtayned a Throne even in the Temple when the Evill or Gangrene in the bodie and having even over-gone the Bodie in common will contende agaynst the healthsome remnant then are wee both to leaue improper Speaches and wyselie to distinguish deceitfullie-confounded Tymes and Cases and properlie to pleade That the Gangrene in the Bodie and even affecting and over-going the Bodie in common yet is but an Adherent or accressing Evill in but not of the Bodie and That the healthsome remnant retayning the Lyfe of the Head and by vertue there-of resisting the over-going Gangrene is the true Catholicke Church And this altered Condition of Tyme and of the Church in tyme which maketh the Argument some-tyme pertinentlie vsed to bee nowe ridiculous besides that both SCRIPTVRE hath fore-tolde it the FATHERS did see the working on of it and wee haue aboundantlie often prooved and still offer to prooue it It is cleare also by that other Poynt which I propounded to bee observed in this reasoning of the FATHERS namelie What Weyght or Moment they placed in that same Argument VVhere-in they even professe That they vsed it not as an infallible demonstratiue Marke but as a Motiue vvhich beeing joyned with cleare TRVETH was worthie to bee regarded but which eyther without TRVETH or agaynst TRVETH should carrie no Credite This is evident by Augustine vsing this same Argument agaynst Faustus Manichaeus and opposing the Authoritie of the Catholicke Church Multitude Antiquitie Succession c.
to his bare bragging of the TRVETH Which TRVETH not-with-standing sayeth that Father if you can show so clearlie as it can not bee gayne-sayde it is to bee praeferred to all these thinges where-by I am holden within the Catholicke Church If the name of the Catholicke Church were in this place properlie to bee taken then should Augustine's supposed Case be ridiculous For Trueth can never be found any-where els but within the Catholicke Church taken properlie Where-by it is cleare that the Catholicke Church in this and such other places is taken for the Communalitie of the visible Church which having Trueth should bee regarded But to whose Authoritie not the lesse the cleare Trueth found with never so few Holders is to bee preferred For Wee ought not to consent no not to Catholicke Bishops sayeth the same Father if they holde anie Opinion contrarie to Canonicke Scriptures Where-by is manifest both in what Sense the Fathers reasoned from the Authoritie of the Catholicke Church and what force they placed in that Argument and that how-so-ever by them and in that tyme and case of a Church it was not inconvenientlie vsed yet that now in so farre different a state still to vsurpe it in a lyke manner were extreame impudencie This Chrysostome did both fore-see and gaue warning of it that the altered state of the Church behooved to bring men to a more neare and proper Rule of Examination as in his Testimonies aboue cited is cleare In that how-so-ever before that Heresie obtayned place in the Church and the abhomination of desolation stood also in sanctis Ecclesiae locis in the holie places of the Church manie wayes were to discerne the Church as while Trueth helde place in common was Vniversalitie improperlie taken Multitude Consent Succession c yet now after that hereticall contagion hath infected the Bodie in common no manner of way is to discerne the true Church amidst the corrupted communitie of the Church but onlie the Scriptures You are greatlie deceived Philomathes if you esteeme the Church therefore to bee called CATHOLICKE eyther because al-wayes the moste parte of men shall come in to her and embrace the Profession or yet That of such as come in to her the moste parte shall al-wayes holde the Trueth But Shee is CATHOLICKE because her Gates that are nowe casten open to all Kinreds Tongues and Nations that the righteous Nation may enter in And how-so-ever that neyther most part come in neyther of such as are in her is the most part of her or saved yet all vniversallie who are saved must both bee in her and of her And how-so-ever in her most part keepe not Trueth yet no Trueth is but in her If as your Men are al-readie perceiving and there-vpon are gnawing their Tongues for sorrowe the Trueth preached by vs take in short tyme such successe as the Waters of your Euphrates shall be dryed vp and if Multitude and Consent of Nations shall bee with vs will you there-fore yeelde vs the Title of the Catholicke Church If multitude of Holders bee al-wayes a sure Marke of the true Church how sayeth the Scripture That All shall follow the Beast And you confesse That Antichrist when hee commeth shall obtayne Vniversallie Now if in Antichrist his vsurpation Vniversalitie shall bee no Note of the Church how see you not That verie vnjustlie you lay it al-wayes agaynst vs and That what-so-ever Vniversalitie you can alleadge for your Pope it exeemeth him not from beeing that Antichrist except hee cleare him-selfe by better Defences Thus I hope I haue cleared That wee neyther disprooue the Fathers reasoning agaynst Heretickes in opposing to them the Authoritie of the Catholicke Church and yet that you haue not there-fore anie eyther Right in their Argument or Ground there-vpon to make CATHOLICKE a discerning Marke of the Church So as your man's mayne Proposition so farre as concerneth this Note of Vniversalitie is still sophisticall and vayne But nowe if it were even a discerning Marke as your Men would make it yet let vs trye howe justlie your Church doeth vindicate it to her selfe and let vs examine your Man's mayne Assumption in that part Philadelphus As you haue dressed his Proposition in that part I thinke all labour agaynst his Assumption were ydle For if CATHOLICKE can bee no discerning Marke of the Church no not anie Marke at all as you haue at length and evidentlie evinced how can it bee Romes Marke Eubulus Yet Philadelphus I will omit no-thing where-by I may possiblie induce Eriphilus to take more of my counsell But in refelling this your Man's Assumption of his mayne Argument where-by hee appropriateth to Rome the Title of the Catholicke Church I must protest Eriphilus that it bee no praejudice to my matter that you doe so confidentlie call your selues Catholickes and your Companie the Catholicke Church else if you will haue this your vsurping of that name to carrie anie weight and that therefore you will haue vs to account so of you I desire of you the same aequitablenesse in our Case That because wee both esteeme and call our selues The Catholicke Church and Catholicke Men that therefore you will holde vs for such Or if you consider that an Argument à dici ad esse concludeth not and that there-fore pertinentlie the Logicians place before their Categories the Distinction 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of thinges that are sayde and of thinges that are Then let vs lay aside what eyther you of your selues or wee of our selues doe partiallie speake or arrogantlie arrogate and let vs trye what is true of vs both Philomathes Your Protestation is most aequitable For a bare Clayme except it bee instructed can make no Title Eubulus Then Philomathes in that part of your Poet's Ryme which is inscrybed CATHOLICKE and which you did lastlie reade besides the Proposition which I haue refelled hee assumeth That the Note of Catholicke or Vniversalitie conveaneth properlie to the Church of Rome Which false Assumption hee seeketh to sustayne by foure Reasons the first of which hee concludeth thus What Companie did take in hand and accordinglie first performed the publishing of the Gospell thorow the Worlde and converted all Nations to the Fayth that must bee the Companie to which the Title of CATHOLICKE or VNIVERSALITIE properlie belongeth and that Companie is the Catholicke Church But the Church of Rome onlie did both vnder-take and performe this There-fore the Church of Rome is the Catholicke Church and to her properlie that Note belongeth Now heere some Poëticall inspiration hath transported your man to giue vs such whether a definition or description of Catholicke as till now none ever heard of Wee esteemed as I haue shewed that the Catholicke Church had beene that companie of what-so-ever Tyme Place or Nation which in the communion of one and the same Spirit joyned to their Head CHRIST doe make vp the fulnesse of His mysticall Bodie whether in the Heavens triumphing or as yet heere in their course fighting
them or reading of their Bookes and that how-so-ever some coole-mynded Men can not brooke it thereis great reason of ridding away and dispatching out of the Worlde even by all meanes of such pestilent and pernicious Men vvho except they bee quyte razed out will not fayle to subvert the whole state of the World For I see Philomathes that by your giving Eare to their charming Speaches you are all-readie put in the Stayes yea halfe over-turned For me when-so-ever I heare ought of them to which I can not make Aunswere I then make the Signe of the Crosse over my Person and I turne myne Heart and Eares another way So as let them speake wryte or preach what they please how true playne and infallible so-ever it appeare yet I determine with my selfe That it is false and I rest vpon the Authoritie of holie Church whose Doctrine I count it sinne once to put in question Philomathes Agaynst an vndoubted Light and clearlie convincing Trueth it were in-deede high sinne once to deliberate much more curiouslie or carnallie to make question But for attayning to Knowledge and Resolution in doubtfull Matters to enquire humblie soberlie and sincerelie wee not onelie well may but all-so are of duetie holden And who without Light are carried vpon anie Man's Credite in Matters of Salvation I thinke they more resemble senselesse Blockes than wyse Christians As for your other Opinion of ridding away out of the Worlde by what-so-ever meanes those you call Haeretickes I am sorie to heare it of you and so much the more if you haue vttered it not onelie out of Passion but all-so out of a setled judgement And to speake freelie to you in this I thinke this Doctrine in manie of our Men bewrayeth evidentlie what Spirit they are of And for mee I not onelie can account them no Christians but even no Men at all or worthie of humane Societie who vnder anie Praetext of Zeale doe shake all Bandes of Pietie and Civilitie And it will bee assuredlie seene Eriphilus that this Tragicall and bloodie Wisedome where-by Men nowe are begun to thinke that the Catholicke Fayth must bee mayntayned shall bee the Meane to hasten the Ruine of the Romish Church vvhyle all the Worlde shall bee wakened by their owne Perill and cleare Sight of such monstrous Inhumanitie to destroy the Destroyers of the Earth EVBVLVS and PHILADELPHVS a-part EVBVLVS YOU did tell mee verie rightlie at our first Discoverie of these two Gentle-men that all-bee-it both of them Papistes yet they were of a much contrarie Disposition for so wee haue in-deede tryed them I loue this Philomathes his Towardnesse and I hope well of him The other's Waywardnesse and bitter Disposition I dislyke as farre Philadelphus You remember how even before our encountring of them I was wishing you to make some Answere to these Questions of this Ballader and Theriomachus was all-so of my judgement Now though you refused to doe so yet let mee intreat you thus farre as to wryte but a short Record of this our Dayes Conference Eubulus Though even that piece of Paynes were in my Opinion but ydle and vnprofitable yet it is too small a matter where-of to refuse you whom for manie respects I am holden both to loue and honour For other-wayes to wryte eyther at length or of purpose anie Answere to such things so often and so learnedl◅e confuted I neyther thinke it expedient for anie so ◅o bus◅e him-selfe and for me in so manifolde Distractions which you know I haue and a daylie Employment in the matters of my Calling together with such imbecillitie of Bodie as can not endure great Paynes I were even greatlie blame-worthie so to waste eyther Tyme or Travell There-fore hence-foorth let no Man put mee to businesse GOD grant wee may earnestlie studie to our owne Sanctification and according to that great Dispensation committed vnto vs wee may labour to worke the same carefullie in the Heartes of others and not to delight in contention of Disputations about Questions which but ingender Stryfe and doe more feast ydle Humours than they edifie Godlie Soules Illuminate O Blessed LORD of Lights The syled Eyes of simple ones to see Disclose the Deepnesse so of Satan's Slights That straying Sheepe may turne agayne to THEE Sling Babell as a Mill-stone in the Sea And let the NEW IERUSALEM All-Glorious Twelue Ports of Pearle cast vp for Entrie free To All who in the Lambs Blood are victorious Bring downe that Beast of all this Evill th'Enacter His Name his Number and his curst Character FINIS A PASTORALL ADMONITION TO REPENTANCE WHat wonder though they haue so small successe All Enterpryzes by vs vndertaken Wee meschantlie haue re-admitted Messe Which happilie was frō our sholders shakē Thus having foulie then our Faith forsaken All our Endevours duelie GOD deludeth HIS Choler kindleth still and can not slaken HEE justlie still our sinfull Sutes secludeth Nor shall our Foes but daylie vexe and wrong vs Till once wee put all strange Gods from among vs. No loue of Messe had ever ledde vs to it This Groundes was on Politicke Praetences But no Fraetence had driven vs to doe it If in our GOD wee had plac'd all Defences But from HIS Word so strayed haue our Senses In Humane Helpe wee our Repose haue placed And there-fore GOD vs rightlie recompenses Our Designes fayle our Doinges are disgraced To Asa King what GOD spake by Hanani Concerneth vs much more than him or anie From Syrian's King Asa succour sought And hyred them with State and Temples Treasure Wee vayner helpe at dearer ◅ate haue bought Of Asa's Sinne exceeding much the measure And doubled thus haue on vs GOD'S displeasure On-drawing vndeclynable Destruction Repent wee not whyle wee haue anie leasure It 's cleare by vndenyable Induction Some Wages Asa war'd out on that Nation Of Babell wee bring in th'Abhomination Prowde Ammons King with Iabesh was contented For to conclude a Covenant of Peace So being beastlie that they had consented To vnder-goe a singular Disgrace That pulling out their right Eyes from their Face All Israel hee might so make ashamed But much more ignominious is our Case Our Beastlinesse and much more to bee blamed Our Parties Pryde surpasse◅h that Exemple To Molech wee must re-erect a Temple Then let vs turne agayne to GOD who smytes vs And doubtlesse Hee will vnto vs returne Slyding abacke so long as it delytes vs Wee never shall misse Matter for to mourne It 's senselesse Pryde agaynst the Pricks to spurne Take counsell then while CHRIST vpon vs calleth His kindled wrath begin it once to burne Woe to the Wicked in His Fangues that falleth Will wee but put all strange Gods from among vs And all the World will bee too weake to wrong vs. With Pittie LORD respect Thy People poore In IESVS CHRIST who gracious and good Salvation to Sinners did procure By sheeding on the Crosse his Sacred Blood HEE is our Solace and Coelestiall Food Vs nursing vp in hope of endlesse Glorie
Syrope Philadelphus is little lesse vnpleasant than your Potion so as Eriphilus hath to provide him-selfe other-wayes of Patience But leaving this I will turne mee agayne to Eubulus who gaue the Wound which you well satyricklie haue rankled You remember Eubulus that you compryzed our Man's whole Discourse of HAERETICKES in this mayne Syllogisme To whom the Notes of HAERETICKES doe properlie conveane and in whom are found manyfolde Defectes which can not befall the true Church they must of necessitie bee baereticall But to the Protestant Churches the Notes of HAERETICKES doe properlie conveane and in them are found manyfolde Defectes which can not befall the true Church There-fore the Protestant Churches are haereticall The Proposition of this Argument you admitted To the first part of the Assumption as touching the Notes of Haeretickes you haue so answered that labouring to cleare your selues you haue layde over well sadlie that Imputation vpon our Church Nowe then all-be-it wee haue the longer but the lesse Esperance of prevayling yet seeing this other poynt concerning the Defectes found in you or affirmed of you resteth nowe onelie of all our Man's Poēsie to bee spoken of I would heare your Aunsweres all-so vnto his Interrogatours there-vpon Eubulus Of this Philomathes I will acquyte my selfe with small a-doe for that all-most all the Defectes objected vnto vs are vpon your Poet 's praesumed Opinion That wee want those Markes where-of hath beene spoken So as anie sensible Man in that which wee haue all-readie sayde shall finde all his subsequent Questions sufficientlie aunswered Besides that else-where I haue aunswered them at such length as my Discourse heere may bee the shorter and you yet aboundantlie satisfied if not with that which I now say yet with easie paynes to reade mine other TREATISES Nowe then reade foorth in order your Man's Questions Philomathes I will both gladlie heare what you shall now say and will not wearie al-so to reade what else-where you haue written These now are the Questions You say your Fayth did appeare For the space of sixe hundreth Yeare But tell mee if thou can When Papistrie first began Where were the Servants of the LORD That none of them durst speake a word To defend the knowne Trueth ************** Did Saynct Peter's Fayth fayle Did the Gates of Hell prevayle Did the Salt lose its savour Was the Bryde out of favour Was the Pillar over-throwne By vvhich all Trueth vvas to bee knowne By this thou vvouldst prooue playne All CHRIST'S Promise to bee vayne Sea Heavens and Earth shall passe in-deede But of this Word no jot vvee reade Where haue you beene so long a tyme To vvhom did your Light shyne Where did your principall Pastor sit Who kept your Keyes vvho fed your Sheepe Show mee some Church that you haue built I can shew manie that you haue spilt Were all damned eternallie Who vvere not of your Companie How might a Man haue found you out To haue tryall in matters of doubt When no such Companie did appeare For so manie hundreth Yeare Till LUTHER a lying Frier On vvhom the Devill ◅ad desire Brake his Vow and married a Nun And then your Haeresie first begun And favoured in SAXONIE By a Duke that loved Libertie And in King EDWARD'S tyme truelie It first infected our Countrey For a thousand yeares you say That Papistrie did beare the sway And during all that space No Protestant did show his Face Who kept the holie Scripture then From the hands of wicked men Who had Authoritie to ordayne Or make Priests or Bishops agayne For hee that entereth without order As a Thiefe doth kill and murder Hee is a Wolfe and not a Priest And Enemie to our Saviour CHRIST And one thing doth make mee muze That no Priest you did refuse Ordayned by the Church of Rome But hee was excepted soone If hee would say your Service Hee should haue a Benefice Without anie farder Order And accounted for the Better How may shee make a lawfull Priest If shee bee not the Church of CHRIST Answere this if that thou can And I will bee a Protestan But while your Answere you devyse I counsell all Men that bee wyse To holde the Fayth mayntayned heere The space of a thousand Yeare Brought to vs English-men By our Apostle Sainct Austine Who from Rome vvas hither sent When EDWARD vvas King of KENT Who learn'd his Fayth of Gregorie ◅ Which Fayth vvas kept successiuelie By three-score Bishops and three From Saynct Peter's tyme vvee see Who learn'd his Fayth of CHRIST IESU Who is the Sonne of GOD most true To HIM bee all Honour and Prayse Who doeth defende HIS Church al-wayes Eubulus You may perceiue Philomathes the trueth of that which I sayde vnto you that all these yourman's questions are coincident with the cases of Continuance Visibilitie wherof we haue spoken except that in end for giving vs a deadly blow in his conceit he close all vp with the question of our Callings And to make cleare to you how your man multiplieth words in vayne without knowledge I reduce all his impertinent pratling to this mayne Argument If things affirmed by you of your Churches can not consist with the Promise of CHRIST made to His Church and Her certaine condition thereby and if you are forced to acknowledge of the Church of Rome that which can not bee competent to anie Companie but to CHRIST'S Church then are your Churches Haereticall and the Church of Rome is the Church of CHRIST But the thinges affirmed by you of your Churches can not consist with the Promise of CHRIST made to His Church and Her certayne Condition there-by and that which you grant of the Church of Rome is onlie competent to CHRIST HIS Church There-fore your Churches are Haereticall and the Church of Rome is the Church of CHRIST Philomathes Verilie our Poet if hee were even heere present could alleadge no Prevarication on you in the vpright compryzing of the summe of his Discourse And if you shall answere to it as clearlie and ingeniouslie as you haue ingeniouslie propounded it vndoubtedlie the best of this Game will bee yours Eubulus The Proposition of his Argument is true but his Assumption is extreamlie false where-of hee laboureth to fortifie the first part touching the Defects alleadged on our Churches thus The Promise of CHRIST to His Church is That Peter's fayth shall never fayle that The Gates of Hell shall not prevayle against her that The Salt shall not lose its savour that The Bryde shall not bee out of favour that The Church shall remaine the stable Pillar of Trueth c. and According to this Promise the certayne Condition of the Church is That Shee al-wayes continueth and is visible But by these things which you affirme of your Churches Peter's Fayth should haue fayled The Gates of Hell should haue prevayled the Salt should haue lost its savour the Spouse should haue beene out of favour the Pillar should haue beene over-throwne and the Church of