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truth_n authority_n church_n infallible_a 2,088 5 9.4927 5 false
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A68850 A mothers teares ouer hir seduced sonne: or A dissuasiue from idolatry penned in way of a dialogue, by occasion of a late letter from the sonne now at Doway, to his mother: which is also printed vvith the letter, and is fully set downe in the sonnes part, for the substance, though with some addition in forme.; Answere of a mother unto hir seduced sonnes letter. 1627 (1627) STC 24903.5; ESTC S114250 89,317 193

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it in the time of prayer but to make the mind as sensuall as the Image which should be quire drawne from the senses Call ye this a serving God in Spirit SONNE Yes for marke my Leaders words wee use them but as a devout representation of the Churche Triumphant which is fit to bee made in the time and place of prayer MOTHER I say nothing of the Church Triumphant or of that proportion which is betwixt the the representation and the thing represented turne we to Deut. 4. 15. Take good heed for ye saw no manner of Image lest yee corrupt your selves and make the representation of any figure See here ye saw no Image ye shall make the representation of no figure wee doe use Images as a representation What call ye this but with a whores forehead to walke in the stubbornesse of your owne hearts yee shall not yet ye will doe contrary to the expresse charge of God therefore as theirs so your services are accompted no better then sacrificing to Divells Deut. 32. 17. Whosoever walkes contrary to Gods revealed will shall find the Scripture an adversarie and contrary to his way in every page Agree then with thy adversarie while thou art in the way For ye can no more wash your hands from Israels sin then their following generation could theirs from innocent blood Therefore that thou may'st be pricked in thy heart I returne to the second of Isaiah where we find the burden of Idolatry The meane man boweth downe and the great man humbleth himselfe therefore forgive them not wherefore they bowed they humbled Marke it the iudgement is tied to bowing and humbling Forgive them not had thy Mother some rhetoricks now what could shee doe with it Elocution thrice repeated could do no good here This is a iudgement beyond expression It is the utmost of all Iudgements Why The horse may trample out the braines of a man and stamp his body to pieces yet there is hope in that death The Canon may dash the body like a snow ball throwne against the wall yet there is hope in that death The sword may bee made fat with the blood of the slaine there may be wailing in all streetes and crying out in all high wayes Alas Alas yet there may be hope all this while for these things fall alike to all and no man knoweth love or hatred But forgive them not What think you A man might here enquire with sobriety too why the Prophets tongue was thus steel'd against the people he seem'd more then a Son of thunder his words were swords even bitter words Lord forgive them not on would haue thought that he should have stood in the gap and have said Lord forgiue them Yea but the Prophet that hath a dreame may tell a dreame Ierm 23 but he that hath the word he saw concerning Iudah and Ierusalem Isaiah 2. 1 must speake the word faithfully and when the people shall aske what is the burden of Lord the Prophet must answer I will euen forsake you saith the Lord. Iere. 23. 33. Consider we now here is an heavy iudgment can the exalting of a peice of wood procure such a punishment Consider wee againe that sillie man would not be compared to a block and that iealousie is the rage of a man he will not spare in the day of vengeance Prov. 6. 34. Consider also that the name of the Lord is dreadfull he will bee sanctified of all that come neere him for hee is a consuming fire This puts vs upon Dauids words let vs call for his spirit my flesh trembleth for dread of thee and I feare for thy Iudgements Psal 119. 120. But if thy heart continue yet stiffe thou hast made thy selfe liable to Belshazzars sin which brought destruction upon him like a whirle-wind The Lord hath done thus and thus to Ephraim and thou hast not humbled thy heart though thou knewest all this But hast praised the gods of silver and gold wood c. and the God in whose hand thy breath is and whose are all thy wayes thou hast not glorified Dan. 5. 22. Good Child consider it and since I cannot give thee my right hand of fellowship yet the Mother and Child would faine bee together they would not a few miles should part them much lesse such a gulfe let us before thy hand bee pluck't backe seriously debate this thing by what hath beene said by what shall be said which is safest which surest my comming over unto thee or thy comming over unto us that if it may be we may be together here and hereafter for ever with the Lord. Attend then further to what I have learn'd from Pauls planting and Apollos watering God giving the increase we acknowledge but one Church firme and stedfast as the foundation of the everlasting Hills compared to Noahs Ark as in many respects so also for this because as out of that there was nothing but death so out of this there can be no salvation And therefore as Noah having Gods speciall order for the matter and forme of it had also his invisible hand to guide it So likewise hath this Church that watchman of Israel for its Pilot therefore though it be in continuall dangerin yet shall it be preserved from the raging waves of this sea be safely brought to the haven where it would bee And for its more sure direction this keeper of Israell hath appointed at a most certaine and infallible oracle whereunto all the Prophetts and Apostles give witnesse and thereunto it doth give diligent heede and firme assent because the Authority and testimony therof is alwaies the same being grounded upon Gods unchangeable veritie As for the Popes succeeding Peter the Church findeth not the truth of it in hir Genealogies and it may be as doubtfull as the succession of Peters Cocke whose Pedegree notwithstanding they say hath beene lineally drawne from generation to generation and it is Cock-sure But yet call your Pope what you will Iohn or Ioane you know it was doubtfull once yet is hee of the same mould with Peter and may erre as hee did whereupon Paul resisted him to the face for hee was to be blamed Gal. 2. 11. And therefore whatsoever he saith challengeth no other then an humane consent unto it for if all the men in the world not immediately directed as were extraordinary Prophets Apostles in whom the spirit spoke and testified by them should consent in one as they notwithstanding their multitude were but men though many so were their testimonie but humane It was not then of old time that they asked councell of your holy Father and so ended the matter but search the Scriptures they testifie of me There is our oracle hearken to what they say The Church of the living God I call it neither ours nor yours but blessed is the man that hath his name written therein is the pillar and ground of trueth no foundation whereon the building must relie but as it is