and the way have lost them both and are now turned Seekers to the dishonour of God and their eternall shame and misery too if they speedily repent not For God in the 30. of Deut. ver 11. saith there This commandement which I command thee this day is not hidden from thee neither is it far of it is not in heaven that thou shouldest say who shall go up for us to heaven and bring it unto us that we may hear it and do it Neither is it beyond the sea that thou shouldst say who shall goe over the sea for us and bring it unto us that we may hear it and do it But the Word is very nigh unto thee in thy mouth and in thy heart that thou mayst do it See saith the Lord I have set before thee this day life and good and death and evill Now if in the dayes of Moses the truth was so near unto them that the Lord says there unto his people that he had set it before their eyes yea that it was in their hearts so that they had then no need to run from land to sea and from sea to land to finde it how much more obvious is it now may every rationall man conclude when it is so gloriously set forth and that through the whole Scripture of the New Testament And how inexcusable will all such be found that complain the truth is not yet clear unto them So that it may be an astonishment to all men to hear any that have read the holy Word of God say that they are yet in the dark the truth doth not appear unto them And yet such men there are who declare unto the world and professe it that they are expectants and seekers and many have often said unto me when I have been in familiar discourse with them That as yet the truth was not made out unto them concerning the Presbyterian way and therefore they could neither communicate with our Assemblies nor yet joyn with those of the new gathered churches Now that all those who have wandred and strayed from the old way and those that are at a losse and seek it may find it and the truth which they have a command from God to buy and purchase and that they may all clearly perceive that they are in the by-path of error that are still Scepticks and doubting about the way I shall at this time endeavor to be their guide nothing doubting but by the grace of God and his speciall assistance if they will bring docible hearts and willing minds to follow the thred of his Word and be directed by that unerring line of the same they may speedily be led and come into the right way and find the truth and with it peace and comfort to their own souls in life and death I will first therefore dissipate and scatter those mists that have been cast before their eyes by which the truth hath been clouded and remove all those stumbling blocks that have been put before them and then I doubt not howsoever it be thought a difficult work yea an unpossible thing but to make the truth evidently appear unto them and bring them into the right way from which some have wandred and strayed and others yet doubt of And I hope so to clear up the light of the truth that the way of it shall not only be plain to them but to every man and woman that have not lost the eye-sight of their reason or have not sacrificed themselves to error and vanity And therefore that the truth concerning the Presbyterian way may the more elucidately appear to every intelligible man I will here briesly state the question which is fully handled in the following discourse and shew What hath been the principall cause of putting so many out of the way and keeping and deterring others from it and withall I will set down the ground and rise of the Independent tenent shew upon what as a foundation they lay the whole Fabrick of this their new Babell which I hope to make evident to be nothing but a meer chimera and phansie in their own brain and that there is not the least warrant for it in the whole book of God And all that I now say I am confident 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to discover to all those whom the god of this world hath not blinded their eyes that they should not see the clear sunshine of the Gospell of Truth Those that call themselves by the name of Independents and have separated themselves from our Congregations and Assemblies counting us such Saints as Job would not set with the doggs of his flocke calling us the sons of Belial proclaming us to be the enemies the Lord Iesus Christ and his Kingdome for this is their language concerning us all those I say pretend that they have both the Word of God and the example of the Primitive Churches especially that of Jerusalem for the maintenance of their Independency and for these their unbrotherly proceedings whose opinion and doctrine is this That the Church of Ierusalem that Mother Church consisted of of no more beleevers at any time then did ordinarily meet altogether in one place and Congregation to partake in all acts of worship and they teach withall that this Church consisting of no more had an absolute soveraignty within it selfe Independent without reference to any other Church and from the which there might be no appeal for the redresse of any conceived wrong and they moreover affirm that the constitution of this conceited forme of government is the true Gospel forme of Church government and is for ever to be a patern to all Churches in all succeeding ages to doe the same and to exercise the same authority within themselves severally that they imagine this Church did though they consist but of twenty or thirty Members apeece yea fewer This is the opinion of all the Independents saving my Brother Burton who in this differeth from all his brethren beleeving yea acknowledging that there were many Assemblies of Beleevers in the Church at Ierusalem by which he hath overthrowne their opinion whiles notwithstanding hee labours with all his might to maintaine it as will appeare in its due place whereas all the other Independents as I said before confidently assert that there were no more Beleevers in that Church at first and last then could all meet in one Congregation to communicate in all the Ordinances Now the Presbyterians on the other side and that upon very good grounds as will in the sequell of this discourse appeare hold and beleeve that there were many Congregations and Assemblies of Beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem and that all those severall Congregations made but one Church within its pracincts and were all under one Presbyterie and that the government of this Church consisting of many Congregations combined together under the government of a Colledge of Presbyters is a paterne of government to all Churches in succeeding ages to the â—nd
envyings are of the flesh and they that do such things shall not enter into the Kingdome of God A double misery follows those that do these things misery here and misery hereafter it excludes men out of heaven The contemplation of the sad condition that will inevitably come upon that Land Kingdome and Church where those variances and heart-burnings are and where there is such diversity of opinions and by reason of them such difference in affection put me chiefely upon this imployment to see and try if by any possible meanes I could by shewing wherein the difference between the brethren lyeth be an instrument of a good accord amongst them resolving with my self by Gods assistance whatsoever others do to observe to the uttermost of my abilities the royall Law Jan. 2. 8. I do conceive that if there were a right understanding one of anothers opinions the world would wonder there should be such invectives in every pamphlet one against another and such varience among those that are joyned together and that with nighest relations The truth is the mis-understanding of each others opinions and the mis-prisian of each others intentions is the onely cause of this diversity of affection which to the dishonour of God and of our holy profession and indeed to the disgrace of Christian Religion every where too much venteth it selfe And therefore as Abraham said unto Lot so say I to all those that love the truth in sincerity and wish the Peace of Zion Let not us contend especially with evill language for we are brethren we have one father we worship one God we have one light one truth one way And this I professe to all the world That I contend not for victory but for that ancient light the faith once delivered unto the Saints Iude 3. For that truth which we have heard from the beginning 1 Iohn 2. ver 14. for the old way verse 6. The way the truth and the life Ioh. 14. and for the honour of that Church against which the gates of hell can never prevaile in the which there are all those undeceiveable marks as are able for ever to declare her to be built upon the foundation of Peter in which the Gospell of Jesus Christ is purely and sincerely both preached and beleeved and where the Sacraments are rightly administred and in the which there is the true invocation of God and all other requisites that make her a true Church and from which there is no just cause of separation That I have dedicated this Treatise to no man nor sought the patronage of any Authority no mortall creature I presume will blame me knowing my Reasons For writing in defence of the Prerogative Royall of Kings against Papall Usurpation I dedicated my booke unto the King of great Britaine France and Ireland supposing my selfe safe under his protection whose honour and imperiall dignity I maintain but all men know what misery to the ruine of me my wife and many small children came upon me by it through the power and exorbitant authority of the Prelates so that for my duty and Loyalty to the King I had a prison for my reward and the scornes and contumelies of the world to comfort me in it And when I most humbly petitioned his highnesse complaining against the injustice done me and most submissively supplicated his Majesty who was the Caesar to whom only I could then appeal that he would be pleased to grant me one of these humble requests either That his Majesty would be pleased but for one houre to give me a hearing of my just defence or if that could not be granted That at lest he would then grant me that liberty in his Kingdome that he denyed not to Crows and Kites and other Vermine that I might provide for my young ones and if his highnesse would not be pleased to condescend unto either of the former just demands That then he would give me leave to depart the Kingdom and to go into any other Country where I might enjoy my Liberty and provide for my poore distressed family I am most assured there was never a more equall Petition put up to any Prince in the world yet his Majestie vouchsafed not to yeeld unto any of these my requests nor to any other Petition put up either by my poor distressed wife or calamitous children so that without any wrong unto his Majesty I may truely say That Paul found more favour from a Heathen Roman Caesar then I had from a Christian King the defender of the faith After I saw all possibility of releefe was now taken from me I writ my Apology to the Bishops themselves discovering unto them their unjust proceedings in their Courts and their unrighteous dealings towards my selfe and gave them my reasons of all I spake without any offensive language and without any perturbation of Spirit and Dedicated this my Booke to the Lords of his Majesties Privy Councell expecting ayde and reliefe from them and indeed I had no hope of succour from any other nor knew none to whom I could better apply my selfe earnestly imploring their patronage but they as it is well knowne of Patrons became my unjust Judges and after they had made me a spectacle to Men and Angells and exposed me to the scorne and ludibry of the world sent me into banishment where I lived a living death and a dying life and suffered such intolerable misery of all sorts as would exceed beliefe to relate and I am most confident if all the particulars were truly known the world never heard the like and there I had ended my dolefull life had not God of his infinite mercy called this Parliament and put into their hearts to redeem me from my captivity for the which incomparable favour I do as of duty I am ever bound professe my selfe to the last drop of my blood to be their servant in the Lord and in all their most just and honourable imployments I hope with all fidelity to answer to the expectation of the world and shall in life and death shew my selfe to be one that without all by-respects shall ever aime at the glory of God the honour of them and my Country and the common good of all and shall never by Gods assistance do any thing in their concernment that shall be unbeseeming a Man and a Christian Now because by my sad experience I found that I could neither from King nor Nobles have protection I resolved never any more in Gods matters to shroud my self under any covert but Divine Providence and that I with an assured confidence promise my self especially when I now maintain the prerogative royall of the King of Saints King of Kings the Lord Jesus Christ Who is our Lawgiver upon whose shoulders the government of his Church is laid who is the wonderfull Counseller the Prince of peace whose dignity and royalty in all this dispute between me and Mr. Walter Mountague I have to the uttermost of my power maintained under the
their proceedings and being carried on with a blind zeale conceive they can never doe too much for them and therefore upon all occasions stirre up their Husbands and friends to advance the cause as they call it and to the uttermost with their power and purses to promote it and hence arise those factions on all sides every one of them in their particular places seeking the maintenance of their party hence it is that there are so many dayes amongst those of the congregationall way set apart for the seeking of God for that is their language for the gaining of some great wealthy personages into their new gathered Churches which they call the conversion of them when indeed it is nothing but the perverting and misleading of them into the by-wayes of their errors I could if need were instance many a Godly Family that were knowne to bee of approved Integrity Piety and Holinesse before these men appeared in the world and yet are now reputed the holy people and Saints and onely for being of the congregationall way The truth of this thing is so apparent as some of the Independents themselves have uttered it that they well perceive that many of their Ministers seeke themselves whiles they pretend they seeke the good of others yea they seeke the world whiles they perswade others to abandon it Saint John sayes 1 Epist Love not the world nor the things that are in the world for he that loves the world saith hee the love of the Father is not in him It is an impossible thing in Gods Dialect to serve two Masters they cannot serve God and Mammon for the friendship of the world is enmity with God saith Saint Iames. Now then when it is evident by all the practises of the Independents that they for the greatest part of them gape after the world and are chiefly imployed in those things that worldly men are taken up in as in biting and devouring one an other in hatred variance emulations wrath strife seditions heresies envyings c. It is manifest they are not the only holy spirituall people if Pauls doctrine be true Gal. 5. ver 15. 20 21. and that the Independents are too too busie in these imployments daily and sad experience teacheth us neither is there any truly iudicious and impartiall Independent that can gainesay what I now write Besides the holy people of old as Abraham Jacob Ioshua Cornelius c. were such as with their whole houses served the Lord they would have none in their Families but such as were of one and the same Religion they would neither connive at indulge or tolerate any Religion in their houses but that God had appointed as all the holy Scriptures testifie they at their uprising and lying down at their goings out and comings in Deut. 6. and Deut. 11. instructed their children and families in the statutes and commandements of the Lord they with their Men-servants and Maid-servants and the stranger within their Gates Exod. 20. tooke care that all of them under their roofes should sanctifie the Sabbath and keepe all the commandements of the Lord they thought it their duty and their place to see that they should serve the Lord with one shoulder and with one lip they left them not every one to the liberty of his owne conscience but according to the expresse rule exacted obedience from them to the commandements of the Lord and this they esteemed to bee the holinesse well pleasing unto God not their owne fained conceits Now in this thing also most of the Il-dependents are fayling in their duty as can be proved who leave their Families to their owne Genins in the serving of God so that they may goe whether they please on the Lords day and bee of what Religion and Sect they like best and therefore they follow not the example of the Godly Party and holy Saints and servants of God of old In all these regards and many more that might be specified it is apparantly evident that those Churches of the congregationall way doe not consist of all Saints as being but mixt assemblies as well as the congregations of their brethren that they separate from and therefore they are not the only holy people as not being crucified unto the world and the world to them as the holy people of old were when they are wholy for the world and this shall suffice to have spake concerning the first title they dignifie themselves with above their brethren calling themselves in all their preachings and writings the holy people and godly party whereas the truly holy people and Godly Party were ever humble in their owne eyes and thought basely of themselves counting themselves wretched and miserable sinners Neither doth the other title truly and onely belong unto them when they call themselves the praying people for our Saviour hath said Not every one that saith Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdome of Heaven but hee that prayeth according to his will for so Saint Iohn asserteth in his first Epistle chap. 5. verse 14. this is the confidence wee have in him that if wee aske any thing according to his will hee heareth us So that it is not the meere praying of any people that will procure audience from God but the praying according to Gods will for Christ hath said Matth. 6. that men are not heard for their much babbling for that is a thing displeasing unto him but in that they pray according to his direction and will so that of necessity it followeth they onely are the praying people properly so called that in all their supplications and requests follow the rule set downe by Christ himselfe the only Prophet of his Church and who knew best what the will of God was and what the meaning of the Spirit of God was for he onely it is that must helpe our infirmities in prayer for wee of our selves know not what to ask Rom. 8. It wil not be amisse therefore briefly to run over some of those Petitions that the Lord hath set downe for an everlasting rule for all the truly praying people to square their prayers by the which whosoever in prayer swarveth from they cannot properly be called the truly praying people Our Saviour teacheth us Matth. the sixth vers 9 10 〈◊〉 13 saying when ye pray say Hallowed be thy name So that they that pray aright desire that the name of God may be glorified and in so praying they desire that whatsoever hinders the glorifying and hallowing of Gods name may be taken away and removed now the toleration of all Religions under pretence of liberty of conscience which all the Independents not onely pray for but with all their might labour for will not make for the hallowing and glorifying of Gods name but greatly to his dishonour and the unsanctifying of his holy name and be a meanes of bringing in of profanesse and atheisme and all manner of abominations and damnable heresies as the very connivence at them already teaches
if you salute your brethren only what do you more then others Do not even the Publicans so And then the Lord set before all his people his own example for their imitation to teach them to do good unto all and this was the way of righteousnesse the old Puritans of ENGLAND walked in doing good to all which the Sectaries have quite forsaken For it can sufficiently be proved that all their charity is confined to those of their severall sects So that if at any time they have been sent unto and solicited by such as knew how wealthy they were and able to relieve others and how ready also and open hearted and handed they had formerly been which was their praise and honour to the relieving of any that were in necessity especially if they were godly those men I say having no ability to relieve them they being themselves poor yet with speciall recommendations as perfectly knowing them to be such as feared God sent them to such of the Sectaries as they knew were very able and at that time very free to all those that were necessitated of their own party yet could not obtain the least reliefe from them in the behalfe of others though withall they made known unto them that those they commended unto their charity had formerly relieved many and were now brought to that great poverty that they had not bread to put in their own mouths nor their childrens bellies through the cruelty robbery of their barbarous enemies and were escaped only with their lives I say notwithstanding all the importunity of those that solicited those Sectaries and notwithstanding the great indigency and present necessity they were all in they could not extort the least reliefe from them it being replyed and answered that they had enough to relieve of their own telling them that they should go to those that were of their own party and to the Collectors in every parish saying that they must have a care of such as were in Church fellowship with them and thus they have shut up all bowels of compassion to all those that are of a different opinion from themselves especially to all those that are of the Presbyterian way as can be proved by innumerable witnesses Yea they are come to such a height of indignation against the Presbyterians and so far they are from relieving any of them as they will wish their ruine and this is the way the Sectaries now walk in which is not the way of righteousnesse nor of the old Puritans of ENGLAND for the way of righteousnesse is that they should love their enemies and do good to them that hate them Now all the Independents say that the Presbyterians hate them for so in their very prayers they intimate to God himselfe that I may now returne to that prayer I formerly mentioned made by the Homothumadon Brother at the great Venison Feast on the Lords day in one of the grand Sectaries houses where all their Church was entertained He in his prayer spake unto God in this manner Lord saith he they meaning the Presbyterians hate us because we know more of thee then they doe we beseech thee Lord give us to know yet more of thee and then let them hate us more if they will c. Here we see they complaine unto God himselfe though falsely that we hate them now if they walked in the way of Righteousnesse that God hath appointed them to walke in they should doe us good and pray for us and not be so uncharitable as to pray against us and to requite evill for evill which is the way they walke in and which was not the way of the old Puritans of England who had better learned their Lesson of love and charity But now to consider this prayer a little and some other of their expressions and the high prayses that upon all occasions they give of themselves by all which it will yet the better appeare that they are not the old Puritans of England over-grown in goodnesse and exceeding them in selfe-deniall and in all points of piety godlinesse and charity and in truth and righteousnesse for this very prayer of theirs with their other speeches and practices proclame to the world the quite contrary for I affirme first that the old Puritans never magnified their owne graces And secondly that both this prayer and many of their other prayers to God prayses of themselves are both untrue Pharisaicall and uncharitable for the Presbyterians doe not hate them as they falsely accuse them but it is they that hate the Presbyterians as all their words and actions and Pamphlets can testifie The Presbyterians as they are bound hate all false wayes but they hate not the persons of any that is the practice of all the Sectaries as it is well knowne But whereas this Homothumadon Brother said that they knew more of God then the Presbyterians it is most false for all the workes and writings of the Presbyterians in all the Reformed Churches can prove and witnesse the contrary so that the Sectaries are all of them beholding to the learned Workes and Writings of the Presbyterians for all that is in any of them worthy the name of knowledge out of whose learned Bookes they have stole it and I undertake it and shall ever by the grace of God be able to make it good that in all their preachments they deliver nothing that can deservedly be called truth but it hath beene taught by the Presbyterians before they were borne and that far better then any of them can teach it and it is most certaine that there is more knowledge in some one of Calvins Workes as that of his Institutions then is in all the Independents and Sectaries put together which very Booke alone with the Holy Scripture had it beene diligently read and studied by the people the Independents and Sectaries with all their plots and devices could never have gained an hundred Proselytes Yea if young Divines would but well reade and study learned Mr. Calvins Workes and but Gualter Tigurinus his Writings with Peter Martyrs and Zanchius passing by thousands of other most learned and orthodox Divines I say if they would but diligently reade and study these I have now named the Independents would never be able with all their skill to seduce any one of them Or did but ordinary Christians now adayes reade but Calvins Institutions and but Master Perkins upon Iude with the Holy Scripture they would quickly relinquish all their Independent companies and their new gathered Churches and would soone perceive that the Sectaries know not more of God and of Jesus Christ then the Presbyterians doe and if poore deluded soules would but carefully and seriously reade the learned Writings of our owne countrey men as the Workes of Reverend Master Richard Rogers of Master Dod Master Iohn Rogers of Dedham Master George Walker Master Bolton Master Iackson of Woodstreet Master Scudder Master Bal or any one of a thousand of our godly
Church then the doctrine of the Congregationall way falleth to the ground or vanisheth for if there were many and severall Congregations there that had not an absolute authority and jurisdiction Independent within themselvs respectively but were subordinate and subject to another authority above them then of necessity that tenent of the Congregationall way is but a meer chimera or whimsy of your own heads as all the learnedst of your tribe do acknowledge Now when my brother Burton hath not onely granted there were many Congregations of beleevers in that Church but by arguments proved it he hath utterly I say lost the field before he entered into the combat as will yet more perspicuously appear in the following discourse but by that I have now said you may see how unhappy you are in all these your Champions and Generals that give as great wounds unto your cause as any adversaries you have in the world now living ever gave That which I have now to say in the first place to all your leaders and guides is earnestly to intreat them as they look for true comfort in life and death and as they desire the peace of the Church and quiet of this distracted State and Kingdome they would now no longer withhold the truth from the people in unrighteousnesse which hitherto they have done but that they would unfainedly bewaile the errors of their wayes and repent of their seducing and misleading of the poor people let it be enough that they have so highly provoked God and caused the enemies to blaspheme our Christian Religion And in the second place I desire all you that have hitherto been misled and carryed about with every wind of their new doctrine that now you would more seriously prove and examine all things according to the Apostles rule 1 Thess 5. 12. and hold fast that which is good Lay not out your time and moneys for that which will profit you nothing but whiles it is called to day set your selves seriously upon the work of examining all those new doctrines that have been taught you set before your eyes the example of the noble Bereans search the Scriptures whether things be as they have taught you and if you please diligently to read what I have writ out of a zeal of the glory of God and out of love to your selves and a true desire of your eternall felicity If any of you that have erred from the truth shall be converted by it let him know that he that converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death and shall hide a multitude of sins James 5. 19. 20. John Bastwick THE ANTILOQVIE SOLOMON the Wisest of men and one beloved of God gives this counsell to all the sons and daughters of God and to the universality of all man-kind saying unto them all Prov. 23. ver 23. Buy the truth and sell it not also wisdome instruction and understanding He counsells them all to prise truth with wisdome instruction and understanding above all things as the onely means of making men happy not in this life alone but eternally for so Solomon that wise man asserteth Prov. 3. ver 13 14 15 16 17 18. saying Happy is the man that findeth wisdome and the man that getteth understanding For the merchandise of it is better then the merchandise of silver and the gain thereof then fine gold Shee is more precious then rubies and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her Length of dayes is in her right hand and in her left hand riches and honour Her wayes are wayes of pleasantnesse and all her pathes are peace She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her and happy is every one that retaineth her If all the Orators of the World had been gathered together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they could not with so illustrious a brevity have set forth the excellency of wisdome and understanding nor with more glorious encomiums and ellogies have decipher'd the amability of them for the making of them specious and lovely and for the inviting of all men to the ready and willing imbracing of them for if either life profit pleasure honour or any delectable content or any thing indeed desirable in the world can invite any creature to be inamored with any object of love all that can be said in way of the praise thereof is contained in this description of wisdome and understanding delivered by Solomon And yet truth hath the preeminency before them all the first place for dignity being given assigned unto her and by a speciall command from God himself who spake by his servant Solomon all men are injoyned to buy the truth and that upon any termes and not to bartell it away or sell it or to part with it though it might be with never so much worldly emolument unto them Buy the truth saith God sell it not keep it for ever For by the truth thou shalt perfectly attain unto liberty which is the life of life yea which is better then life liberty being that the whole world contends for every man not onely desiring it but fighting for it Now the truth will make every man free so saith Christ John 8. ver 32. The truth shall make you free from all error and from the fear of Hell and Death and from the very terror of both And lest any man should seriously doubt what truth is as Pilate scornfully did Christ himselfe hath taught us John 17. v. 17. saying Thy Word is Truth and that Truth that sanctifieth his people For every thing is sanctified by the the Word and Prayer 1 Tim. 4. v. 5. This precious good Word of God and the faith once delivered unto the Saints Jude 3. contained in it is that that all men are exhorted earnestly to contend for And therefore more especially in these our times every one ought vigorously to stand up and contend for it yea upon any termes or at any rate to buy it when it is become such a rarity as it is scarse to be met with being almost lost in the thickets meanders and labyrinths of so many errors so that the faith once delivered unto the Saints is very rarely to be found amongst the sons of men through the involutions and intanglements of writhing and restlesse spirits whose whole work and designe it is as by their dayly practices it doth appear either wholy to eclipse or darken it or totally to take it away that by this meanes Truth and Light being once removed the deceivers and impostors may the better put off their corrupt and putrid wares and commodities and the poor deluded people may the more facilly and readily be deluded cheated and consened and those that are wayfaring men for the want of its direction may wander in the by-paths of darknesse to their own eternall perdition And the verity is too too many by their needlesse vain and unnecessary janglings about the truth
one of them that followed Christ and beleeved in him at which the Scribes and Pharisees were offended and sought how they might destroy him but saith the Scripture they feared him because all the people were astonished at his doctrine that is they beleeved it verse 18. another company was those that were the Disciples of Iohn the Baptist and they accompted Iohn a Prophet indeed as all the men of Ierusalem did verse 32. and either of these companies were so great and powerfull as they kept all Christs enemies in awe so that they were affraid of the people of either party and therefore there was then a very City of believers in Ierusalem and they Inhabitants and that in Christs time and they had been baptized by Saint Iohn for all Ierusalem went out and were baptized by him So that now I assure my selfe every but ordinary understanding man will gather that there was an innumerable multitude of believers in Ierusalem and more than could meet in any one place or a few if they had been put together when there were two such potent parties there as either of them kept the very enemies of Christ the Magistrates and Rulers yea Herod himselfe in awe which a few thousands could never have done and all these were Inhabitans of Ierusalem and well known to the Scribes and Pharisees to be Christs and Iohns Disciples and all beleevers as wee shall more abundantly prove in the following discourse and therefore my Minor doth now stand firme That there were more beleevers in Ierusalem and that by the very ministry and baptisme of John then could meet in any one place or a few and that there wâ—â— an infinite number of beleevers and a very City of beleevers which Mr Knollys denyeth and in so doing gives the spirit of God the lys and contradicts the holy Scripture and opposeth all sound reason and all this to maintain the fonde opinion of Independency And this shall serve to have spoke by way of answer to what Mr Knollys had to reply to my first arguments concerning the multitudes baptized by John the Baptist I will now give an answer to what I. S. hath to say against this argument of whom I shall take the liberty by way of preface before I come to my Reply to speak something and yet no more then shall be thought fit and agreeable to sound reason and so much the rather I do it because this man greatly vanteth himselfe and because his answer is highly esteemed of amongst many of the congregationall way who I confesse are much to be blamed that they suffer themselves to be deluded with such fellowes never examining their writings but taking all for oracles they vent and thinking it enough that there is any thing come out against a Presbyterian in way of answer though there be nothing more destructive to their own opinion as I am confident it will appear to all judicious men that these answers of Mr Knollys my Brother Burton and this I. S. are And for I. S. I may say thus much of him that he is yet vainer then Mr Knollys in his answers for he candidly denyeth upon all occasions the Minors of my Syllogismes and then gives some sucking reasons for this his denyall but this I. S. hath nothing of a Scholler in him for all good Schollers and Disputants will set down the arguments of their adversaries in their full strength and as they are in the Copy and then either deny the Major or Minor or both or distinguish and after they have shewen the fallacyes of the arguments if there be any then by their art and learning they will shew the weaknesse of them and so evade the dinte and force of them this I say is the method not onely of all accurate Disputants but of every ordinary jangler if he at least pretends any thing to learning But I. S. hath not so much ingenuity in him as to do any thing of all this but first sets down my arguments in an obscure way and to the halves so that the unlearned Reader cannot perceive the strength of my reason and then in a confused manner gives in his answer in the name of all the Independents which upon due examination I am confident will appear to all learned men to be nothing but a packe of blasphemies and contradictions as being a meer fighting against the truth and a giving of the spirit of God the lye as in the sequell will be evidenced Our Saviour in the 3 of John verse 20. 21. saith That hee that doth the works of darknesse shunns the light but he that doth truth cometh to the light c. Truly I may justly accuse I. S. and his fraternity of this sin that they not only shun the light themselvs but hinder others also from it and do whatsoever in them lies to keep men from the knowledg of the truth and from prying into their errors that by this means they may atttain unto their own ends and therefore they not onely dispâ—rage all the Presbyterians and with their calumnies labour to make them odious to the people as so many railors and persecutors for so they call us that they may neither hear their Sermons nor read any books written by them or any thing penned against their Novelties by those of that party and all this to abuse the simple people that by this their art they may with-hold the truth from them in unrighteousnesse And in this facultie are all the Independents very expert who cunningly either pick and choose or curtalize and adulterate all a guments that are brought against them or else totally passe them over with slightings when they can no way with any reason reply unto them And as they are generally void of all good learning and sciences so there is neither ingenuity candor or honesty amongst the most of them these excellent graces and vertues being now strangers to those of the congregationall way amongst the which fraud and juglings and all manner of dissimulation and railing are the only master pieces of their craft by which they maintain and uphold their way and foment their errors for should they deal fairly with us and not disswade the people from reading our books and hearing our godly and painfull Ministers and would they but set down our arguments and reasons in their full strength the people would not onely speedily see their errors but relinquish them And therfore they all take speciall care to keep the people in ignorance and amongst those Artificers and Crafâ—s-men of that new Goddesse that Diana of Independency this J. S. though in all good learning he be a very novice yet in this craft of jugling he is pretily expert And that all men may see I do not falsly accuse him I will first set down the sum of my arguments taken from the multitudes baptized by Iohn the Baptist and and then set down in what terms he delivers them with his vain and impious answer to them
to any man of but ordinary understanding that in those severall Cities which were after their change of government the Seates of their Bishops and Prelates they had many Townes and Villages and many Churches and Congregations under them all the which before this alteration were all governed by their severall Presbyteryes respectively and were all uuder them and were ordered and moderated communi consilio Pesbyterorum which the Independents themselves do acknowledge and my brother Burton by name in his vindication Hence is was that the blessed Apostles went from City to City to Preach the Gospell there in their Synagogues as the whole Scripture of the new testament relateth and they did not only Preach the Word to them in their severall Cities but in each of them ordained and constituted Presbyteries giving charge to Titus and Timothy to doe the same leaving the government of all those congregations and Churches in those severall Cities in the hands of those severall Presbyteries in their severall jurisdictions injoyning also those severall Presbyteries and Churches to observe the Decrees of the Synod and Councell of Jerusalem and commanding the people all Christians and believers in those severall Cities under them to be subject and obedient to all their severall Ministers and Guides set over them and to observe all that they should from God teach them to observe and doe as we may see out of the severall places I set downe at large in the foregoing discourse as out of the 14. of the Act. 23. Acts 20. 27. 18. Tit. 1 verse 5. 1 Tim. 5. verse 17. Heb. 13. verse 7 17 24. and the first of Pet. 5. 2. Iam. 5. 14. and Acts 15. 23. Acts 16. 4. Acts 21. 25. All which places of holy Scripture and all the Arguments by which I prove all the Primitive and Apostolicall churches to be classically governed my Brother Burton and I. S. passed by not so much as taking notice of them as they did not of those multitudes baptized by Iohn the Baptist and Christs Disciples of whom likewise they took no notice as not formed into a church or churches But as our Saviour said to the Seducers Matth. 22. Yee erre not knowing the Scriptures so I may truly say of all the severall Sectaries of this time they erre not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God to punish them for their wickednesse For would they but take the word Church in that sense the holy Scripture delivereth it unto us and relateth it the controversie would soone be at an end Now the word Church in all the places above quoted and through the whole Scripture of the New Testament for the most part is taken collectively either for all the catholike invisible or visible Church or for the representative body of the church or for many congregations and assemblies of Beleevers all combined together under one government either in a citie or countrie partaking in all the Ordinances as in preaching and praying and the administration of the holy Sacraments and in the exercising of godly discipline not onely within the wals of those severall cities but through all the townes and villages as farre as the bounds and limits of their severall governments precincts and jurisdictions did extend as Acts the 15. 23. The Apostles and Elders send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch that is to the Church in Antioch and in Syria and in Cilicia So that church is most often taken collectively as the church of Geneva at this day and of Basil and the other reformed Cantons as it was in the seven churches of Asia Now when the word church for the most part in holy Scripture is taken in this sense as the church at Ierusalem the church of Samaria Antioch Philippi Corinth c. and where there were many congregations and churches combined together and all collectively taken in this the Independents and all Sectaries erre that they alwayes take the word church for no more then can meete together in one of their pipkin congregations to partake and communicate in their Ordinances whereas the Scripture as I have in all the forgoing discourse sufficiently proved taketh the word collectively for many congregations under one government although every one of those severall congregations considered apart and by it selfe may truly and properly be called a church as being a Branch and Member of some particular church and communicating in all essentiall Ordinances with it as hath abundantly bin proved yet still it is considered but as a Member and a Branch or part depending upon the whole particular church under which it is and therefore classically governed From all which I may conclude that when all those severall Churches as that at Ierusalem Samaria Corinth Philippi Ephesus which my brother Burton saith must be brought in to make up a compleate paterne of Church government were all collectively taken and classically and collegiatly governed as consisting of many congregations and yet but under one Presbyterie in their severall precincts and jurisdictions my Arguments will everstand good yea they are all strengthned from my brother Burtons Concession and his expresse words For if when there were but three thousand Beleevers in the Church at Ierusalem as it appeares Acts the 2. they were then forced to sever themselves into divers companies because they wanted a convenient place so spacious as wherein to breake bread as my brother Burton saith how impossible a thing was it for them all after that time to meet together in any one place or a few when the church at Ierusalem multiplyed daily and that by many thousands and at last grew so numerous as they amounted to many Myriads or innumerable companies as appeareth Acts the 21. all which notwithstanding my brother Burton passeth by and taketh no notice of wilfully deceiving the poore people in concealing from them so apparent a truth But should I take notice of the error of his words and discover all his juglings my discourse would swell into a mighty volume for to speake the truth his expressions containe in them a heape of fraud and confusion all which hee must one day give a severe account for But not to take notice I say of his severall faylings what he grants is to be taken notice of viz. that when the Church at Ierusalem was in its infancy they wanted a convenient place spacious enough to communicate in all ordinances and therefore they were constrained to sever themselves into divers companies in severall private houses to communicate Then of necessity when that Church was multiplyed into many ten thousands they must needs be distributed into many and many congregations and churches to partake in all the Ordinances and all these were but one church and under one Presbytery as my brother Burton acknowledgeth So that now I am most confident every judicious Reader will easily perceive that my Brother Burton and all those of the congregationall way meerly trifle and delude the poore and ignorant people
and Officers much lesse in Synods that imployment belonging wholly to the Presbyters in each Church whom God had made Rulers in his Church over them and commanded the people to yeeld obedience unto them Heb. 13. and therefore that all the new gathered Churches affecting an Independency and challenging their Votes and suffrage in the Government of their Churches are all transgressors against both precept and example And this shall suffice to have spake in way of Answer to Mr Knollys his vain jangling against my third Proposition And now I will briefly Answer to what Sir I. S. hath to say to it whose words are these pag. 11. In asserting That the Presbyters did rule the Church and ordinarily other Churches whom do you hit saith he sure not the Independents as you call them we grant it is their part to rule but we distinguish saith he between Authority and jurisdiction on the one hand and power and interest on the other this latter saith he belongs to the people the other is proper to the Officers which yet they exercise in the name of the Church so they i the Officers ordain they excommunicate i pronounce excommunication they lead and direct in all government and disputes they have executative power as you demand pag. 93. but the people have a power and interest too as those places alleadged by your selfe shew expresly Act. 15. for though ver 2. Paul and Barnabas are said to be sent by the Apostles and Elders onely yet ver 4. they are said to be received of the Church and Apostles and Elders therefore they were sent unto the Church also and that word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with one accord ver 25. imports a multitude met together and this to be the result of that multitude else it were no great commendation of the resolution that it was convened and issued forth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And though onely the Apostles and Elders are mentioned as comming together to consider of the question verse 6. yet it is said verse 22. that it pleased not onely the Apostles and Elders but the whole Church also therefore the Church also came together to consult or the Apostles and Elders as a Cnmmittee first prepared the dispute as not counting it so safe perhaps to admit the weake to the same while it was intricate and then reported it and had their assistance and concurrence and the Letters of resolution run in the name of the brethren i. the Church as well as the Apostles and Elders ver 23. and so in Ordination 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i Election by lifting up the hand belongs to the brethren though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. imposition of hands be proper to the Officers where there are officers as in a Church constituted and compleat Thus speaks I. S. in the name of all his brethren in way of answer to my third Proposition the errors of whose expressions should I but only name them all severally they would take up some time and a great deal of paper but should I undertake the ful confutation of them all and discover all the impiety evil and wickedness that lyeth couched in these his words I might make a just volumn and spend some moneths in the imployment for grosser errors my eyes never beheld and such as are more contrary unto the holy Scripture and to the honour and dignity not onely of the Apostles and Presbyters in the Church at Ierusalem and in all Churches but to the very dignity and honour of Christ himselfe the King of his church who the Independents most shamefully disthrone as I shall by and by make appear God assisting me whiles notwithstanding they make the greatest noise of setting him up King in his Church And to speak the truth though the Independents seem to hate Popery their doctrin is Popery it self only the upside of it turn'd down and the reare made the front otherwise there is no great difference between their Tenents but that the Independent doctrine is more shamefully erroneous as will be made evident and more derogatory to the honour and dignity of Christ the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and to the honour and dignity of the Apostles and Presbyters and more tending to confusion and the overthrow of all Government in Church and State all the which assertions that they may be made a little more evidently manifest I will briefly run over and examine some of the passages in this his answer for to discover but halfe the errors of it they would weary the Reader to hear them and to speak but the verity he that shall have to do with such whibling and unlearned fellows as I. S. and Hanserdo Knollys are had need to be a man of intolerable patience But before I begin with him I shall desire the Reader to consider whether I. S. be not guilty of interferring tautology and great confusion crimes he layes to my charge to use some of his own language Page 15. and 16. if not contradiction and be not great of his own sense and a very catechumenos and one that hath as well need of instruction as of refutation for as much as to me it seems unmeet that a man should be polemically exercised before he be positively principled these things I refer to the Readers consideration and now I go to my work In asserting saith I. S. that the Presbyters did rule that church and ordinarily other churches who do you hit Not the Independents as you call them saith he We grant it is their part to rule but we distinguish between avthority and jurisdiction on the one hand and power and interest on the other this latter belongeth to the people the other is proper to the officers which yet they exercise in the name of the Church So they i. the officers ordain they excommunicate i. ◠pronounce excommunication they lead and direct in all governments and disputes they have the executive power but the people have a power and interest too c. And in the 12. page In Ordination saith he Election belongs to the brethren but imposition of hands is proper to the officers where there are officers as in a Church constituted and compleat Thus profound I. S. I shall intreat the Reader here to take notice what he grants and what he denyes and how at every turn he juggles First he grants that the Presbyters did rule the Church of Jerusalem and ordinarily other Churches and saith that my Argument hits not the Independents for they as he in the name of them all asserteth grant that it is the Presbyters part to rule So that if he had stayed here there had been some ingenuity in him but with the same breath he blasteth yea bloweth down all that he had formerly set up and that with a windy vain American distinction which he hath borrowed out of some of those monstrous Pamphlets that come from thence called the way and the keyes c. which are fraught with
and cryed out against it as an intolerable violating of Gods Law and asserted that it was enough to provoke the Lord to anger against the whole Land and write bookes and divine Tragedies upon Sabbath-breakers and Profaners of the Lords day and those that permitted the profanation of it which with the godly of those times was reputed their immortall honour how unsufferable a thing therefore is it I say now in these very men to pleade for a toleration of all Religions that could not then tolerate sports on the Lords day by which not onely the fourth commandement would be brake but all the commandements of both of the first and second Table without doubt they have a great deale to answer for before God for by the doctrine wee have learned from our Law giver and King the Lord Jesus Christ who is not changeable though they be they that breake the least ef Gods commandements and teach men so to doe whatsoever they esteeme of themselves that they set up Christ upon his Throne and whatsoever opinion men have of them they are the least in the Kingdome of Heaven and have much to answer for before his Tribunall for these their wicked dealings and truly it exceedingly saddeth my heart when I think of them how fearefully they are fallen and what a scandall and blemish they are to their holy profession that thus Chamelion like change their forme upon every occasion But how much more is it intolerable then in those men that have the name of Rabbies amongst those of the congregationall way and that would make the world beleeve they are the onely Saints for those to make themselves merry when the godly and faithfull Ministers of the Gospell out of sorrow and griefe of soul spread before the Lord the blasphemies of the times as good Hezekiah did the blasphemies of Rahshekah that it may move the people to mourning and sackcloth and to humble themselves under the mighty hand of God for the diverâ—ing of his Judgements that do for these their blasphemous tenents hang over the land I say how intolerable a thing is it in such men to make a sport at it and as Solomon speaks of the wicked in his time whom he calls fools to make a mock at sin Yet such there are as Cretensis by name amongst the rest is one of them who makes himselfe merry at these blasphemies and writes books in justification of those wicked and ungodly men and calls their damnable practices the infirmities of the Saints accouÌ„ting of them as Saints and holy men whereas the good and zealous Prophet Ieremiah ch 9. cryeth out at the beholding the abominations of his times far inferio to those of our dayes saying Oh that my head were waters and mine eyes a fountain of teares that I might weep day and night for the slain of the Daughters of my people Oh that I had in the wildernesse a lodging place of wayfaring men that I might leave my people and go from them for they be all adulterers an assembly of treacherous men And they bend their tongue like their bow for lyes but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth and they know not me saith the Lord. Here we see the posture of the holy Prophet we find him armed and clad with mourning to behold the profanation of the truth and we have here also his great complaint that at that time there were not any valian for it upon the earth If now this glorious Prophet were in the world and amongst us here in England and should behold those damnable blasphemies that are every where venâ—ed by the sons of Belial in these times should see how few upon the earth are valiant for the truth yea how they labour for a toleration of all Religions how would his spirit be moved how would his soul be perplexed within him to see it and what fountains of tears would he pou e out to the Lord quenching of the fire of his wrath and indignation against them but how much more would it perplex and trouble hâ—s soul to see any that should write yea publish books wherein they do not onely make themselves merry at those blaspnemies and count them the infirmities of the Saints but proclame them Saints that perpetâ—ate all these wickednesses and write most scurrilous â—ailing and vilifying books and Pamphlets against his holy servants that are valiant for the truth counting them speaking disgracefully and contemptibly of them but thimbles full of dust without all controversie it would sad his soul to the very death and so indeed it should trouble the souls of those that are truly godly to behold such lawlesse wickednesse not only to go unpunished but to find favor and applause even of those that are Masters of the Assemblies Truly howsoever out of the infinite patience of God these men are yet suffered yet I am most confident he that wil come wil come and not tarry to reveng his own quarrel the quarrel of his servants that are valiant for the Truth And I wil take the liberty to say thus much to St Cretensis that reverend learned and ever to be honoured Master Thomas Edwards who he so much vilipendeth and slighteth calling him a thimble full of dust will walk like a noble lyon when he like a Curr or Bandogg shall go bawling by him and withall I would advise him to take heed of that thimble For two or three fillips more of it upon his great noddle may so stagger him as he may happily never recover again and for ought I know or can discerne God may make halfe a thimble full of that dust to put out his eyes and the eyes of half the Independents and Sectaries in England For most assured I am that all such as in the name of the Lord as he doth come out against such notorious enemies of God and his Truth as Cretensis and his associates are will be able to confound them all and by the power of his might be ever strong enough to deal with the whole Army of them and with all those grolls and â—ynnies that take their part and appeare in their wicked cause I will therefore rather advise Cretensis not gyant like to fight any longer against the Truth but to humble himselfe for what he hath already done under the mighty hand of God whom he with his complices abetters have so highly provoked to wrath and anger against this poor tottering Kingdome It is not Cretensis with all his foul language shall ever be able to bespatter the immaculate reputation of learned and godly Master Edwards who hath in Gods cause ever shewed himselfe valiant for the truth and stood in the gap against the errors of the times and hath lift up his voice like a trumpet which will be for his immortall praises when too too many of his brethren which will not be for their honour were silent We finde it Matthew 13. ver 24 25. When the man had
of God upon all occasions I cannot but wonder for the truth is in all your language you never speak of your party who you call the confiding men the wel-affected in the Army the godly party but you count them and them only the saviours of the Kingdome the restorers of our paths to walk in and this is your own dialect God is not so much as named many times to my knowledge in your ordinary discourses although God hath given a caveat against such expressions and speakings Deut. 9. where the Lord charged all his people by a threefold prohibition that they should not ascribe the glory or honour of their victories to their own righteousnesse or to their own arme which is the Independents dayly practice to say their party have done all to teach all men that there is nothing that more displeaseth God then to give his glory to men that can deserve nothing at his hands who is ever to have the sole glory and honour of casting the horse and rider into the sea yea in expresse words it is often declared in holy Scripture that God can save by few as well as by many and that a King is not saved by the multitude of an host and that the horse is prepared for the battell but God gives the victory and all this to teach us ever to give the glory of all victories to God onely and to ascribe the honour to him Now then when we have so many witnesses that God is the Saviour of his people and the Restorer of our paths to dwell in and a speciall command to give him the praise of it how is it Brother that there is nothing in your mouth more frequent yea in your Pamphlets and prayers then that those men you call the godly party in the Army have done the whole work in this War yea and are the only saviours of the people and the healers up of our breaches and the restorers of our paths to dwell in robbing both God of his glory and all the other gallant men that indeed under God did the work of their due honour and praises who had in all respects a far greater share in all the victories obtained against the enemy as being farre better souldiers and better Christians and valianter men and the more in number by far ten to one then the Independent party And that both at Marston-moore and Naseby as in its due place will appear to all future ages But because Brother you have particularized the Battell at Marston-moore ascribing the glory of that victory wholy to your party and extreamly wrongfully accuse me about that businesse I shall here therefore set down what I find writ by a stedier hand then yours concerning that Battell and by such an one as I know would not divulge an untruth to the world neither would I have made use of his testimony not withstanding I know the truth of it but that I am able my selfe to prove what he hath writ by a cloud of witnesses that were there and received many wounds in that Battell and against whom there can be brought no just exception the words of the Author are these In this Battell saith he speaking of Marston-moore divers gallant men of both Nations had an honourable share of the Victory but none I hear of without disparagement to any did appear so much in action that day with gallantry as David Lesley Here those of the party we spake of a little before viz. the Sectaries and Independents to indear themselves to the people attribute unto themselves the honor of the day and stick not to call one of theirs the Saviour of the three Kingdoms when god knows he that they then did extoll so much did not appear at all in the heat of the businesse having received at the first a little scar he kept off till the worst was past This had not been spake of at all saith the Author if some idle men to gull the world had not given the honor of the day to those who had but little or no share in it And all this that this Author relateth can be proved by an Iliad of witnesses to be true and as this testimony is true so many more witnesses and those men of reputation can be brought to prove that the victory hath been wholly ascribed unto the Independent party in other Battells and Skirmishes when they have been many miles of from the very place and if there be but any commander of their party in any imployment though he strike but one stroke then he carries away all the honour from the rest and they have their pentionary pen-men both in the Army and at London to do this feat for them to give them the praise and honour of it to indeare themselves into the people and all to delude them and so it was at that Battell the Presbyterians underwent the heat of the day and the Independents challenge the honour Thus much Brother you have forced me to speak and now I go on Brother for the other particulars which to please your selfe and set forth your passion you charge me withall I will answer them as they lie And here I protest before the Lord I have never dealt dishonestly nor Serpent-like with you nor any creature living or that ever did live upon the earth Also that my heart is sound unto my God firme and filled full with Christian Love to all that fear his Name and walk before him in truth and sincerity And for my brain it is not so shallow but that through the wisdome which is given me of God who giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not Jam. 1. 5. I can discern into the depth of Error and am able by Gods assistance to make it appear to all whose eyes are open to see the clear sun-shine of the truth That the way of your Independency is not grounded on the Word of God but its rice continuance and increase hath for the foundation thereof onely the fantasie ambition private interest self-seeking and cunning practices with a seeming hollownesse of some subtill and unstable spirits And likewise for the whole universe I assure you it never did nor never can bring in a just verdict and say I am a man not onely whose heart is divided but whose head is c. For the whole universe hath been and is so far from bringing in any such verdict that grave learned godly zealous and holy men in the Reformed Churches have given in another verdict of me whose Testimonies I can shew for my godly Life Learning and blamelesse Conversation whilest I lived amongst them beyond the Seas and I have the like from the most eminent godly learned men where ever I have inhabited in this Kingdome yea many Letters of late time I have received from godly learned men both at home and abroad that have read my Books whose faces I never saw and by them it plainly appeareth that the chiefe pious orthodox learned men of
part of this last Querie is the same with the former for here you speake as if to slight the Independents were a sure way to obtaine favour and applause from Popish Cavaliers truly you flatter your selfe if you thinke your subtill dealing herein is not seene when as it is so notoriously known that any man who speaks against Independents may be scorned but never applauded by Popish or any that are Cavaliers for they applaud the Independents whom they hold to be more subtill and powerfull to effect the thing they chiefly ayms at and desire then themselves and it is well knowne and can be proved that they will run and goe to doe any Malignant a favour yea they will joyne with the wickedest Cavaliers against a Presbyterian to doe him a mischiefe But having cleared this truth in my Reply to your first Querie I hasten to the other part of this where you start the Question Whether the favour I received were not by my courtly compliance with Papists preferring them before Protestants c. To which I answer that my constant perseverance in holding forth the true Protestant Religion where ever I lived at home and beyond the seas is sufficiently knowne to all the godly faithfull orthodox Christians that inhabited in any of those parts where I have dwelt and so farre have I ever beene from any courtly complying with Papists or preferring them before Protestants as some in England at this day can testifie that when I lived in forraine nations my zeale was so great for the Protestant Religion that with no little hazard I have maintained it for all the while I travailed abroad and continued in Popish Countries which was many yeares it fared with mee as with the Apostle Paul while hee waited at Athens Act. 17. 16 17. my spirit was stirred in me when I saw the Cities and all the Countries wholly given to Idolatry therefore carrying my life in my hand I daily disputed with Papists and those they accounted the devout persons Priests and Iesuits against Popery maintaining the Protestant Religion insomuch as it was only the goodnesse of my God that kept me safe giving them no power to hurt mee further J answer you the Bookes that I have written against Popery in Latine and in English are yet extant and they doe witnesse and will to future generations that the Author of them disputed against and disclaimed Popery and earnestly contented for the faith which was once delivered unto the Saints Iud. vers 3. yea the many disputations I have held with Priests Jesuits and people popishly affected in England not onely while I injoyed my liberty but also when by the Prelaticall popish party J was for maintaining the true Protestant Religion and standing for the peace and welfare of my countrey cast into severall prisons viz. in the Gate-house at Westminster in the Castle of Launceston in Cornewall in the Castle in the Isle of Sylly in the Goale of Leicester in the Goale in the Citie of Yorke in Hemsley-Castle in Yorke-shire Lastly in Knasebrough-Castle in Yorke-shire Yet through Gods supporting grace in none of all these prisons could the cruelty pride and fury of men which in Yorke and Sylly was my daily portion either make me forget my integrity or daunt mee in the least for their rage and power I feared not neither did I ever forbeare to justifie godly Protestants nor decline any opportunity to dispute with Papists but improved it to the uttermost to shew the great idolatry and vanity of their Religion as many who were prisoners with mee in some of the fore-named places can testifie And I am confident that the Popish Cavaliers with whom I have beene a prisoner and others of them that have discoursed and reasoned with me in matters of Religion will give this testimony that they ever found me constant to my principles unmoveable in the Protestant Religion and as farre from complying with Papists or preferring them before Protestants what ever I suffered or under-went as light is from darkenesse in its greatest brightnesse Moreover Brother I would not that you should be ignorant how that I have beene as frequent in disputations writ as much in confutation and at all times and in all companies have appeared as forward and earnest against Papists and have ventured my life to maintaine the Protestant Religion as freely as any Independent I know in England and that in the worst of times yea when those who are now the chiefe independent Rabbies to avoyd suffering for truth would not stand to appeare in her behalfe but went out of the Kingdome and like the parents of the man that was borne blind Joh. 9. 21. Left her to speake for her selfe then J helped to maintaine truths cause and was not afraid nor ashamed to suffer in so good a quarrell but resisted her opposers Papists Prelates Arminians and Formalists in their erroneous Doctrines and Popish practises even unto blood I am become a foole in glorying you have compelled me 2 Cor. 12. 11. for so many reproaches which you have cast upon me and such groundlesse Queries could never have proceeded from any that had not beene guided should I say by a traducing spirit truly that word would come short fully to explaine and set forth the sinfull subtilty of them therefore I will not undertake to set down what spirit it was and what name it will beare I shall onely shew what it was not and leave it to such as are godly wife and experienced Christians to spell out the name thereof Now it is very evident that it was not the spirit of brotherly love that would have silenced yea annihilated such thoughts in the first conception for as brotherly love thinks no evill much lesse dares it devise and publish falshood yet more evill and greater falshood then you have not only thought as it plainely appeares but published against me and that deliberately none could ever have imagined for you render me a scandalous Walker as vile as vile can be and here you question whether I have not complyed with Papists and Popish Cavaliers and preferred them before Protestants Thus with your windie Independent policie you blast my good name raise doubts cloud my sincerity darken and overshadow my faithfull constant perseverance in the truth and wayes of God to make me be thought a man infamous and of no Religion but such dealings are absolutely contrary to brotherly love therefore it is very clear to the understanding of all that you were not guided by that spirit And as your quaeries were made without brotherly love so they seem to be altogether voyd of Christian experience being wholly filled with evill surmises scrued up to their height by the hand of carnall reason and uttered by the tongue of sinfull suspicion For I beseech you consider how it comes to passe that you who have been a Prisoner one of my Quondam Fellow Sufferers when you heare that I being a Prisoner under the command and power of