you selfe M. Watson Coloss 1. He is not ashamed to saye thus grounding his wordes vpon Saint Paule to the Colossians Vbi est secundum Apostolum ministerium quod absconditum fuit a saeculis c. Where is according to the saying of the Apostle the ministerie that hath bene hid since the beginning of generations and is nowe opened to his saintes vnto whome God would make knowne the ryches of the glorie of this sacrament among the Gentiles which sacrament is Christ the hope of glorie Where saint Paule hath sayde Mysterium the misterie or hid secret Cluniacensis sayth Ministerium the ministerie And where Paule sayth Qui est Christus Cluniacensis sayth Quod est Christus which sacrament is Christ For immediatly before he had sayde Sacramentum in place of Mysterium The sacrament in place of the mistery And all this is to make men beléeue that saint Paule wryting to the Colossians had taught them that the sacrament of Christes body is Christ himselfe Much such matter is manifest in your Cluniacensis I estéeme his aucthoritie therefore euen as I estéeme youres And so I doe estéeme those notable wryters which at this daye doe terme our Religion by the name of Mahumets sect For whatsoeuer they or you say or wryte we are well able to proue that we hold the true and catholike fayth which was taught by the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ being the foundation thereof With the Prophets we beleue the promise of God concerning the sending of his sonne in the similitude of sinfull fleshe that in the fleshe he might satisfie for the sinnes of all his elected and chosen children And with the Apostles we beleue that he is come and hath by one sacrifice once offered satisfied for al their sinnes that be of that number And that there remayneth no more sacrifice for sinne Hebr. 10. And that the Church of Christ is bound continually to offer vnto God a sacrifice of thanks for this so great and frée redemption by the sacrifice of his owne onely begotten sonne And that this sacrifice of thankes is our obedience in walking in those good workes that God hath prepared for vs to walke in This is not to prepare a way for the Turkes to ouerunne all as you say it is But this is to be at defiaunce both with Turke and Pope But for the auoyding of these absurdities WATSON Diuision 11. and for suche causes as I shal God wylling declare hereafter I presuppose this foundation of christes body to be really present in the blessed sacrament to be stedfastly beleeued of vs all vpon the which I builde all that remayneth now to be sayde Which foundation although it hath beene vndermined of many men and many wayes therfore requireth a full and perfite treatise to be made of it alone yet as I intende not to occupie all this time in that so I maye not well so slenderly leaue it that hath bene so much and often assaulted but shall declare the summe of that moueth me to continue still in that truth I was borne in to keepe still that fayth I was baptised in and put on Christ which fayth seing it is vniuersall if I should leaue it I should forsake Christ and be an heretike not folowing that forme of doctrine I receyued of my fathers and they of theirs from the beginning but chosing my selfe a newe waye and newe maysters that please me being so condemned by mine owne conscience and iudgement which is the very propertie and definition of an heretike CROWLEY The obsurdities ye speake of we haue something touched alreadie The other causes that moue you we minde by Gods help to saye somewhat to when you shall declare them But in the meane while let vs sée the summe of that which moueth you to continue still in that fayth you were baptised in c. WATSON Diuision 12. There be three things that holde mee in this faith the manifest and plaine scripture the vniforme aucthorities of holy men and the consent of the vniuersall Church These three be the argumentes that a christen man may stick vnto and neuer be deceaued specially if they be knit and ioyned togither concerning one matter but if they be seperate then some of them be but weake staffes to leane vnto As for example the scripture without the consent of the church is a weapon as meete for an heretike as for a catholike for Arius Nestorius and such other Heretikes did alledge the scripture for their opinions as the catholikes did but their alledging was but the abusing of the letter which is indifferent to good and euill and deprauing of the true sense which is onely knowne by the tradition and consent of the catholike church so that the one without the other is not a direction but a seduction to a simple man bicause the very scripture in deede is not the bare letter as it lyeth to be taken of euery man but the true sense as it is delyuered by the vniuersall consent of christes church Lykewise the writings and sayings of the fathers if they be but the minde of one man without the consent of other were he neuer so well learned and vertuous otherwise yet his wrytings I say in that point be not a confirmation for an ignoraunt man to holde him in the truth but a temptation to seduce him and pull him from the truth The consent of the Church is alwayes a sure staffe the verie piller of truth whether it bee in things expressed in the letter of the scripture or in things deliuered vnto vs by tradition of the Apostles He that holdeth him by this staffe can not fall in faith but stande in truth The thrée staues that you saye you leane vnto CROWLEY are very good stayes such as a man may be bold to trust vnto especially as you haue wel said when they be knit and ioyned togither concerning one matter But if they be seuered then some of them be but weake staues to leane vnto Hitherto you haue said very wel But when amōgst these thrée staues you make the consent of the Church onely to be the sure staffe and the scriptures and sayings of learned and godly fathers without the consent of the Church to be but a seduction or tentation to seduce the simple and ignoraunt man me thinketh you shewe your selfe to beastly blinde Where was this sure staffe of yours when all the Apostles were so farre from the hope of the resurrection of their maister that they could not beleue the report of them that had séene him after he was risen againe Marc. 16. Had this consent of theirs in vnbeliefe bene a sure staye for men to leane vnto And was the prophecie of Dauid at that time a seduction or tentation Psalm 16. Act. 2. to seduce a simple ignoraunt man bicause it was not ioyned with the consent of the Church Did Christ go about to seduce the Iewes when hée bad them search
custodire dominicae traditionis veritatem Et quod prius apud quosdam videtur erratum Domino monente corrigere Vt cum in claritate sua maiestate coelesti venire coeperit inueniat nos tenere quod monuit obseruare quod docuit facere quod fecit It agréeth sayth Cyprian with our religion feare and place of priestly office most dearely beloued brother that in the mingling and offring vp of the Lords Cup we kepe the truth of the Lordes tradition and that we doe by the warning that the Lorde giueth correct that thing wherein we sée that other haue heretofore erred That when he shall begin to come in his owne brightnesse and heauenly Maiestie he may finde that we hold fast that wherof he gaue vs warning obserue that which he taught vs and doe that which he did Such words as these are not for you to loke vpon For they will bid you leaue of your masking garments in your ministration and to set aside your halowed cups Vestiments Altars and Superaltaries wyth all your crossings turnings and halfe turnings with the reast of your Apishe toyes For Christ neyther taught nor vsed any of all those thinges But when Cyprian sayth In sacrificio quod Christus est non nisi Christus sequendus est In that Sacrifice which is Christ none must bée folowed but Christ the first part of the sentence must serue your purpose to proue that the reall and naturall bodye and bloud of Christ is the substaunce of the sacrifice of the church and that the same is really and substantially present in the sacrament thereof but the later part of the same sentence must not put vs in minde to doe in the ministration thereof that which Christ did and commaunded vs to doe The wordes that Watson cyteth make nothing for him Thus without shame you cite that for your purpose which when it is taken whole togither maketh manifestly against you Yea the verie first part of that sentence which you apply to your purpose when it is well weighed maketh nothing for you For what is more common among the fathers then to call the signes by the names of those things that they doe signifie Chrysost in Epist ad Heb. homil 17. And doth not Chrysostome speaking of the same sacrament say thus Nō aliud sacrificium sicut pontifex sed idipsum semper facinus magis autem recordationē sacrificij operamur We doe not sayth Chrysostome make another sacrifice as the high Priest doth but alwaye one yea we doe rather make a remembraunce of a sacrifice By these wordes of Chrysostome it appeareth that though the fathers vsed to call the sacrament of Christes bodie a sacrifice yet they vnderstood it to be but the remembraunce of that sacrifice that Christ offered on the crosse once for all I would not gladly diminishe the aucthoritie of Cyprian or anye other auncient writer but I am sure you your selfe M. Watson wyll not buylde vpon euerye sentence of Cyprian as you doe vpon this For then coulde you not set your holy father of Rome so highe aboue all the Bishops of christendome as you doe Cyprian li. 4. Epist 2. Loke in the fourth booke of his Epistles and the seconde Epistle where you shall finde these wordes Ac si minus sufficiens Episcoporum in Africa numerus videbitur etiam Romae super hac rescripsimus Equalitie of Bishops by Cyprians iudgement ad Cornelium collegam nostrum qui ipse cum plurimis coepiscopis habito concilio c. And if the number of Byshops in Africa sayth Cyprian shal séeme to small I haue writtē to Rome also concerning this matier euen to Cornelius our felow in office who also holding a counsell with many bishops ioyned with him c. This Cornelius whome Cyprian calleth his fellow officer was Bishop of Rome when Cyprian wrote these wordes Yet I thinke you will not gather hereof that there was an equalitie betwixt them vnlesse you minde nowe at the last to denie the supremacye of your holy father And yet you may a great deale more iustly gather that vpō these words then that which you would maintayne of the other Yea I suppose that you and all your felowes are not able to proue that Cyprian ment not to teache an equalitie amongst all those Byshops that he speaketh of But whatsoeuer he ment in this place or any other it becommeth vs to folow the rule that he giueth Cyprian lib. 2. Ep. 3. in vnderstanding the words that he or any other auncient father hath left in wryting Si solus Christus audiendus est sayth Cyprian non debemus attendere quid aliquis ante nos faciendum putauerit sed quid qui ante omnes est Christus prior fecerit Neque enim hominis consuetudinem sequi oportet sed Dei veritatem A rule to be folowed in the reading of Fathers If Christ onely be to be harkened vnto we must not marke sayth Cyprian what any man before vs hath thought méete to be done but what Christ which was before al hath done before vs. Neyther ought we to folow the custome of men but the truth of God This is a perfite rule méete to be folowed of all men in the reading of the auncient fathers wrytings Then come you to Basils Masse where as you say are written these wordes Tu es qui offers c. O Christ our God thou art he c. As for your maner of Englishing of Basils words I leaue to you and your Printer to amend In whom the fault is I know not It shall suffice that I aunswere your matter First with your leaue M. Watson you belye Saint Basils forme of Masse For if that be his that was imprinted at Andwarp Anno. 1562. out of an olde Booke of the Latine translation as the Printer sayth then is there no such matter as this that you cite in all S. Basils forme of Masse But S. Chrysostomes Masse translated by Leonhardus Thuscus hath wordes in the same sense that these be that you father vpon Basils Masse The words be these Concede a me peccatore indigno famulo tuo offerri tibi haec sacramenta tu enim es offerens oblatus suscipiens distributus Christus Deus noster If I might be put in trust to translate these wordes into Englishe I would say thus Graunt that I being a sinner thine vnworthy seruant may offer vnto thée these sacraments for thou being Christ our God art he which art the offerer and art offred which art he that doest receiue and art distributed Thus much haue I done for you M. Watson to helpe to saue your credit least some of your friendes should begin to mislyke with you for cyting matter that is no where to be found For though your father Chrysostomes wordes vpon Basil they can beare with you well ynough Yea though you doe racke them a little to serue your purpose Chrysostomes and Basils iudgement can not
declareth the vse of the sacrament in the receypt of it with the seruice of our mouth Math. 19. as Christ commaunded saying Take eate which is a corporall eating not a spirituall beleeuing And last of all it sheweth the effect of the sacrament which is the resurrection of our bodies to eternall life for because Christes body being the body of very lyfe is ioyned to our bodies as our foode it bringeth our bodies that be dead by sentence of death to his propertie which is life whereof in my last sermon I spake more at large O Lorde what harde hearts haue these men to doubt themselues or to denie or to bring in question that manifest open truth in so highe and necessary a matter which in most playne wordes hath bene taught of our sauiour Christ his Apostles and Euangelistes and declared so to be vnderstand by the holy ghost out of the mouthes of all these holye fathers whome the holy ghost did assemble and inspire with the spirit of truth to the confusion of the great heretike Arius that troubled the worlde then and also did inspire their hartes to declare so plainely the misterie of thys blessed sacrament which then was without all contention beleued of al christen men onely to preuent these heretikes that arise and spring vp nowe in these latter dayes that the worlde may see how they striue agaynst the knowne truth their owne coÌ„science the determination of the hole church being enimies of God breaking his peace and deuiding themselues from the church whose end is eternal confusioÌ„ Nowe are you come to the first generall counsell CROWLEY holden at Nice in the Citie of Bithinia vnder Constantinus Magnus In the .24 deuision of your former Sermon I haue sayde some thing to the later wordes of this sentence that you cite out of the great general counsell of Nice And in the .33 deuision of the same sermon I haue graunted as much as the words that you cite there doe teach when they be vnderstanded so as the auncient fathers do vse that like maner of spéeches But here I must tell you that in the olde allowed counsell of Nice there is no part of that which you rite here found written Wherfore the authority therof must néeds be so much the lesse But graunt that the .318 Byshops had in that counsell agréed and written euen as you haue cited must we therfore beleue that Christ is in the sacrament in such sort as you teach really and substantially c. Saint Austen in his Sermon Ad Infantes which is cyted by Beda Beda in 1. Cor. ca. 10. sayth thus Vos estis in mensa vos estis in Calice You are vpon the table you are in the Cup shall we therefore saye that saint Austen ment that those persons that he spake vnto were really substantially and bodily in the cup and on the table I thinke you will not graunt it And why will you by the wordes cyted out of the Nicene counsell bind vs to beleue that Christ is after such sort present in the sacrament As touching the maruellous touching or couching of the wordes for so I suppose you spake I can not but maruell that you could not sée howe euerye one of them serueth to expresse the truth against that which you teach First they will vs to lift vp our mindes and to consider by fayth not things that are here conuersaunt amongst vs and may be conceyued by bodily senses but that are aboue and can not be conceyued otherwise then by fayth Then they tell vs that the Lambe of God is set vpon the holy table euen as saint Austen telleth his Auditorie that they are set vpon the table to teach vs that the sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ is not a bare and naked signe but effectuall to the worthye receyuer that is to such as beyng members of Christ are placed on the table and in the cup with Christ in such sort as the Lambe of God is placed there that is spiritually and in a mysterie And after the same sort the same Lambe is sacrificed by the priestes when by their ministerie the members of Christ be made partakers of that holy mysterie and doe euen sensibly féele the effect of that sacrifice Hebr. 9.10 which that Lambe made of himselfe once for all as saint Paule wryteth Thirdly they declare that we receyuing the precious body and bloud of Christ in déede doe beléeue that it is the pledge of our resurrection Which maner of receyuing it pleaseth you to terme a reall receyuing As though the body of Christ coulde not be receyued by fayth verilye and in déede vnlesse the same be after your reall maner But I must put you in mind that you haue fowly forgotten your selfe when you say that the offering that the priest maketh in his Masse is a distinct offering from that which Christ made vpon the crosse for you shall finde manye of your friendes of a contrarie minde if ye search their bookes well But you would séeme to make bloudy and vnbloudy the difference betwéene those two sacrifices Here say you that is in your Masse he is offered of the priests not by shedding of his bloud but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is insacrificabÃliter after an vnsacrificable maner which is not a newe kylling of Christ but a solemne representation of his death as himselfe hath ordeyned Here the latter wordes doe confute the first For if the maner of offring in the Masse be such as can not be a sacrifice howe can the Masse be a sacrifice And if the Masse be but a solemne representatioÌ„ of the death of Christ how can it be a sacrifice offered to almightie God Not the Popishe Masse but the blessed supper of the Lorde the holy communion of his body and bloud is a lyuely representation of his death and passion And as your Emesenus sayth in the wordes that you cite for you haue taught him to speake congrue latine nowe vere vna perfecta hostia c. That sacrifice which is but one and is perfite in déede must not be estéemed by outwarde shewe nor iudged by the sight of the outwarde man but by fayth and the affection of the inwarde man But eyther not vnderstanding your Emesenus his wordes or else after your olde custome of purpose you corrupt him in the translation For you say This hoste and sacrifice is verily one and perfite as though Emesenus had poynted to your Masse sacrifice Where as it is playne that he meaneth of that sacrifice that is represented by the holy communion of the body bloud of Christ I may therefore vse the wordes of your owne exclamation against your selfe and such as be of your minde For whose harts can be imagined to be more hard then youres which in so manifest a matter as this doe not onely bring in question the open and manifest truth but also in alledging the words of fathers and counselles applie them
for your purpose contrarye to their meaning seing Christ hymselfe hys Apostles and Euangelistes the auncient fathers and counsels haue in most playne wordes taught the contrarie of that which you defende It is manifest therefore that you stryuing against the knowne truth your owne consciences the determination of the whole Church are enimies to God breakers of his peace And deuyding your selues from the Church must néedes in the ende come to confusion euerlasting vnlesse yée repent in tyme. WATSON Diuision 7. Concilium Ephes Epist ad Nestor Likewise the next generall counsell holden at Ephesus in the tyme of Theodosius the Emperour eleuenth hundred and twenty yeres ago doth determine this truth lykewise in these wordes Necessario igitur hoc adijcimus Annunciantes enim sicut secundum carnem mortem vnigeniti filij Dei id est Iesu Christi resurrectionem eius in caelis ascensionem pariter confitentes incruentum celebramus in Ecclesijs sacrificij cultum sic etiam ad misticas benedictiones accedimus sanctificamur participes sancti corporis preciosi sanguinis Christi omnium nostrum redemptoris effecti non vt communem carnem percipientes quod absit nec vt viri sanctificati verbo coniuncti secundum dignitatis vnitatem aut sicut diuinam possidentis habitationem sed vere vinificatricem ipsius verbi propriam factam We adde this also necessarily We shewing and declaring the corporall death of Gods onely begotten sonne Iesus Christ and likewise confessing his resurrection and ascention vnto heauen doe celebrate the vnbloudy oblation and sacrifice in our Churches for so we come to the misticall benedictions and are sanctified being made partakers of the holy body and precious bloud of Christ all our redeemer not receauing it as common fleshe God forbid nor as the fleshe of an holy man and ioyned to the worde of God by vnitie of dignitie nor as the fleshe of him in whome God dwelleth but as the fleshe onely proper to Gods sonne and verily giuing lyfe to the receauer By this determination of this generall counsell wee learne that in the mysticall benediction by which worde is meant this blessed Sacrament wee receaue Christes owne proper fleshe and of it we receaue sanctification and lyfe before the receypt whereof we celebrate the vnbloudy sacrifice of the same in our Churches declaring our Lordes death resurrection and ascention and by this place wee plainely perceiue that the doings and wordes which be vsed daylie in our Masse were also vsed in the tyme of thys counsell much aboue a thousande yeares ago By the wordes of the Ephesian counsell CROWLEY you would not onely proue the reall presence in the sacrament but also that the same Apishe toyes that be nowe vsed in the Popishe Masse were then vsed which was within .468 yeres after Christ But the Popes owne hystories doe playnely declare that the greatest number of those things were not as then inuented But to frame the matter somewhat better to your purpose you helpe it a little in wryting out the wordes For in the place of Sacrificij seruitutem you write Sacrificij cultum Supposing belyke that the base Epitheton of seruitude would abate somewhat the high estimation that you would your Masse shoulde haue Well let that passe It is no fault in men of your sort But let vs sée howe this place maye proue the reall presence of Christ in the sacrament The Authors of this Epistle would bring Nestorius then Byshop of Constantinople backe agayne from his errour which was that of the Virgin Marie was borne onely the manhood of Christ and not Christ God and man So that he deuided Christ into two persons one diuine and another humane And to proue that the manhoode in Christ is ioyned with the Godhead in vnitie of person these Byshops doe in this part of their Epistle ioyne to the confession of their beliefe concerning the corporall death resurrection and ascention of our sauiour into heauen the celebration of the remembraunce of his death which they call Incruentam sacrificij seruitutem the vnbloudy seruice of the sacrifice And to make their meaning more playne they say that they come to the misticall benediction and be made holye when they be made partakers of the holy body and precious bloud of Christ the redéemer of all Not receyuing the same as common fleshe or as the fleshe of an holy man or of a man that is ioyned to the sonne of God by the vnitie of dignitie or that possesseth the heauenly habitation but as fleshe that hath power to giue lyfe in déede and is become the peculiar and proper fleshe of the sonne of God himselfe For say they he that is lyfe as beyng God bycause he is vnited to his owne fleshe hath declared the same to be of force to giue lyfe c. These wordes indifferently weighed doe proue that the manhood in Christ is ioyned to hys diuine nature in vnitie of person but that the same manhood is really present in the sacrament and therein offered vp in sacrifice can not be proued by these wordes August ser De sacramentis fidelium Yea these wordes doe verie well agrée with the doctrine of Saint Austen when he sayth thus Qui non manet in Christo in quo Christus non manet proculdubio nec manducat eius carnem neque bibit eius sanguinem etiamsi tantae rei sacramentum iudicium sibi manducet bibat Who so abideth not in Christ and in whome Christ abideth not without doubt he doth neyther eate his fleshe nor drinke his bloud although he doe to his owne condemnation eate and drinke the sacrament of so worthy a thing And agayne he sayth Huius rei sacramentum id est vnitatis corporis sanguinis Christi alicubi quotidiè alicubi certis interuallis dierum in Dominico praeparatur de mensa Domini sumitur quibusdam ad vitam quibusdam ad exitium Res vero ipsa cuius est sacramentum est omni homini ad vitam nulli ad exitium quicunque eius particeps fuerit The sacrament of this thing that is of the vnitie of the body and bloud of Christ is in some places prepared euery day in some place in certaine distance of dayes in the Lordes daye and is receyued at the Lordes table to lyfe in some and to destruction in some other But the thing it selfe whereof it is a sacrament is lyfe to euery man that is partaker thereof and destruction to none So the Fathers of the Ephesian councell haue verie well confessed that comming to the mysticall benediction and being made partakers of the holy body and blessed bloud of Christ they are sanctified and made holy by that quickening fleshe of Christ which being ioyned to his Godhead in vnitie of person is of power to giue euerlasting life to as manye as shall be partakers thereof by dwelling in Christ as saint Austen hath taught I conclude therefore that you haue
of the generall counsels It shall not bee needefull to rehearse any particular and prouinciall counsels which all in this doctrine agree with the other general CROWLEY Your great antiquitie is well abated when you fall from 1500. yeres to lesse then 150. You were best to furnish out your number of wytnesses with the generall counsels that haue bene holden since Constance the sayings of those auncient fathers that haue writtē within these hundred yeres And then you may safely say that you shall not néede to make rehearsall of the particuler and prouinciall counsels which are all euen such as the tymes were wherein they were holden How iustly that counsell of Constance did condemne Wickliefe and his doctrine How iustlye Wyckliefe was condemned I referre to the iudgement of such as shal or haue read his workes or that which Iohn For hath reported in his monuments of Martyrs WATSON Diuision 11. Furthermore the consent of the Church appeareth by the condemnation of the heretikes of all ages which holde any false opinion in anye point against the veritie and the institution of Christ concerning this blessed sacrament The first heretike that euer we read of in this matter and father to al the sacramentaries that liue now was one in the time of Ignatius by and by after the Apostles whose name we know not but what he and his sect that folowed him did Theodaretus in his thirde Dialogue maketh mention saying that Ignatius who lyued within one hundred yere of Christ writeth in an Epistle Ad Smyrnenses in these wordes Eucharistias oblationes non admittunt Theodoretus Dialogo 3. Ignatius ad Smyrnenses eoque non confiteantur Eucharistiam esse carnem seruatoris nostri Iesu Christi quae pro peccatis nostris passa est quam pater sua benignitate suscitauit They doe not allowe and admit our sacrament and offerings because they doe not confesse the sacrament called Eucharistia to bee the fleshe of our Sauiour Iesus Christ which fleshe suffred for our sinnes and which the fathers goodnesse did raise from death againe By this we learne what was the fayth in the primitiue Churche both that the sacrament was the verye fleshe of Christ which suffered for vs and also that it was offred for vs by the priests which things those heretikes denied then as their scholers nowe springing vp vpon their ashes denie nowe and that they were condemned as heretikes by the primitiue Church then as these most worthily be condemned by the catholike Church nowe The consent of the Primatiue Church appéereth in the condemning of heretikes CROWLEY that then brought in heresies and sowed scismes and the consent of the same Church of Christ The Church of Christ doth alwaye condemne heresies hath euer since as the Church of Antichrist would suffer it shewed forth hir consent therein and doth nowe more manifestly then heretofore it could be suffered to doe But your Antichristian Church although it haue for a fashiō to get hir a good name condemned some heresies although not any such as you say yet hath it brought in receiued confirmed Antichrists Church confirmeth as great heresies as it doth condemne as many and as great as it hath condemned As the supremacie vniuersall power of hir heade the Pope the power to pardon sinnes in this lyfe and after the power to forbid meates and mariage the sacrifice for sinne the transubstanciation of bread and wine c. And here I must tell you that your friend Maister Doctor Harding doth not agrée with you about the first founder and father of the sacramentarie heresie You say that it was one that sprong vp by and by after the Apostles but your friend Harding sayth that Beringarius a thousand yere after was the first that euer impugned the truth of the article of Christes reall naturall and corporall presence in the sacrament Well agrée you two as you can I will not séeke to set you at one in this point But as touching that you cite Theodoretus affirming that Ignatius did in his Epistle to the Christians in Smyrna write of that namelesse man and his folowers Ignatius his wordes not founde in his Epistle I must let you vnderstand that in that Epistle which is extant in the Gréeke written by Ignatius to the Smyrnians there is no such sentence as Theodoretus doth note And what shoulde it helpe your cause if Ignatius had written euen so Or if there were some other Epistle of Ignatius to them wherein those wordes might be found should that proue your purpose Ignatius hath sayde that those heretikes did not admit thankes giuings and oblations because they confesse not that the Eucharist or thankes gyuing is the fleshe of our sauiour Iesus Christ c. But we doe admit both the Eucharists and oblations and doe confesse that the same is the fleshe of Christ c. Wherefore this place can proue nothing against vs. Againe here is no mention of reall naturall and substantiall presence c. Therefore it maketh nothing for you But I doe much maruaile that you could not sée a sentence that the same Theodoretus cyteth out of the same Epistle Theodoretus Dialogo 2. which is also found in the Epistle which is extant in Gréeke The wordes of the sentence are these Quando ad eos qui cum Petro erant accessit dixit eis accipite palpate me videte quod non sum Demonium incorporeum Et protenus ipsum tetigerunt crediderunt When he came vnto them that were with Peter he sayde vnto them take mée and féele me and vnderstande that I am not a Deuill that hath not a bodie And forthwith they touched him and beleued Whether these wordes of Ignatius may stande with such a reall presence of Christs body in the sacrament as you teach I referre to the iudgement of as many as be learned and not obstinate blind Ignatius doth teache none other fayth then we doe Wherefore I conclude that the wordes of Ignatius doe not teach vs anye other fayth then that which we holde Which is that the sacrament is the verie body and bloud of Christ which suffered for our sinnes and rose againe for our iustification but not after your reall carnall and grosse maner Neyther doe the wordes of Ignatius giue vs occasion to thinke that Christes bodie is or can be so present in many places at once and insensibly as you and your sort doe teache and condemne other for denying the same And where as the due matter WATSON Diuision 12 wherein this blessed Sacrament is consecrated ought to be vnleauened bread of wheate and wine mixed with water according to the scriptures and the example of Christ there were one sort of heretikes called Artotoritae of whom speaketh Epiphanius contra Quintillianos which were so called for that they vsed not in their sacrifices the necessary and due matter Epiphanius contra quintillianos but in their misteries did