the truth is those be the greatest enemies of God and his Truth that possible can be and the greatest deceivers in the world and an hypocrite is not to be found anywhere but in a faire seeming Forme And where the Authour of the Discourse concerning the Quakers is speaking of Atheists and Apostates it will be found that the greatest Atheists in the world is where there is a God most confessed with the Tongue and yet the heart walks contrary to the Tongue It is not the confessing and acknowledging of a God with the Mouth that frees men from Atheisme no no the greatest Atheisme is in the Heart and there it is and it mattereth not what any talke of God or of Religion or of fantasticke in coms of Christ into the soule so long as men have not found out an Atheisme in his owne Heart and out of that be brought to have the true Knowledge of a God that God which men come to know no other way but by Scripture relation will but prove a phanta sticke god for the fancy of Formalists shapeth him out in so many severall fashions that ost-times they fall out amongst themselves about the fashion of their relative god but when they can agree about the fashion of their god found out in Scripture then doe they busie themselves to patch up a faire seeming Forme and therein they worship their God with hand and foot tongue and eye and all the rest of the members at sometime But yet I would know where the Heart is and what is the god thereof I much feare that its god is a creature not much unlike the gods of the Heathen in the time of the Jews who was made of gold silver wood and stone Let but the Saint likest Formalist in England minde the truth of this and I beleeve he shall finde that such god are the gods of his heart let him or them but well consider and ponder but one day to mind seriously the wayes and out-goings of their heart and they will finde that a creature of some kinde is the god thereof and whatsoever they shall finde the heart to be led out to take it for granted that its god For our Saviour saith Where your treasure is there is your heart and no man can any way know his owne heart but by its thoughts inelinations desires and intents c. which be the effects thereof And if the creature have the thoughts cares feares loves and desires that is its god for sure and look what god the heart confesseth and worshippeth and liveth in that god shall be the help of man or else his destroyer It is no hard matter for men to conforme to any kinde of Kirke-fellowship and in the same to talke of God and walke in the literall obedience of that Forme â—â— what Scripture requireth and yet for all that deny the God of Truth with their heart let but the Author of that Discourse look well about him or rather to within himselfe and he need not goe farre to finde Atheisme and Athests to purpose But where he is speaking os Apostates I would have him to know that none can justly be so called except they have been first made partakers of the Truth and love of God and from that have turned away to love the world but man cannot be an Apostate in turning from one Forme to another neither if a man turne himselfe out of all Formes for it is not the falling from Formes that make an Apostate but a falling from the Truth and love of God that maketh man an Apostate and a man cannot fall from or turne from that he never was possessed of and if any have been made partakers of the love of God and yet have turned therefrom and so become an Apostate yet such a one must be saved or else that Author must race out many Scriptures or else learne to understand them otherwise then they be understood amongst Formalists For they say Whom God once loveth he loveth him to the end and if the Author doe not befoole his own judgement and the judgements of his Fellowes he cannot gaine-say it but that Apostates must goe to Heaven But I beleeve the Author must goe to some other then himselfe and to others then those amongst whom he hath his Fellowship to seeke out Apostates for I assure him he is none himselfe and I beleeve they are very scarce where he liveth I much doubt that neither himselfe nor his Fellow-worshippers as yet have been true partakers of Truth and then it is impossible for him or them to fall from or turne from the thing they never had so I will cleare both the Author and his Fellowes of the sinne of Apostacy But what better are they that beleeve a Lye in stead of Truth then those who have known the Truth and yet turned from it Seeing the Author hath taken paines to quote Scriptures and time to apply these Scriptures for the aspercing of a people more simple then himselfe or any of his Fellowship I would wish him to have a care that he be not like those that as yet have the Beame in their eye whereby they be blinded in beholding of themselves and so can quickly condemne others and yet justifie themselves But I say Happy is he that is not condemned in the things he alloweth It s true the Scripture speaketh of such Deceivers as should come and in the time of the Apostles began such Deceivers to arise but after their death they much more increased till at last the truth it selfe was over-shaddowed and in all Generations since that time untill these dayes the truth as may be said hath layd under Clods of Earth but now when it beginneth to shut up it selfe and begin to spring how wonderfull madd is the Foxes Beares and Lyons Wolves and Owles Dogs and Swine at the very appearance of it but it mattereth not for all their madnesse for a Stone cut out of the Mountaine without Hands shall dash in pieces all the faire Images of Humane Worship and a North Winde with a Tempest shall arise and rent asunder the Harlots Robes for the Lord himselfe will bring the same to passe For he hath said that in the last dayes He will powre out his Spirit upon all Flesh c. And in the last dayes the Mountaine of the Lord shall be established upon the top of the Mountaines c. When this commeth to passe as sure it will then let all blind Priests and good-thinking Formalists look to themselves for the day of their visitation is at hand But to proceed I come to the Authors words in his Discourse where he singleth out two sorts of People to be the objects of his applyed Scriptures and especially the one of these be the very subject of his Discourse and these he calleth Quakers which saies he is either counterfeit or comes from the power of the Devill c. If this Author himselfe have not undergone the powring out of
all things But I would have the Author and all others to understand themselves better and then they shall understand Scripture better I would know of the Author what Scripture it was that the Apostle meaneth of when the Scripture which we have at this day was not written many a yeare after the time of Abraham but if the Author cannot tell I will declare to him what Scripture that was The Word Scripture is two-fold and to be understood in a two-fold sence the one Essencyall the other Declarative Now the Scripture Declarative is written in Paper by men and had a time for its beginning and so there is a time for it to end but the Scripture Essenciall hath its being in it selfe and is Eternall and shall have no end and this Scriture is the true Essenciall Word of God or his Sonne Christ by whom all things were Created and this Word was in the beginning and this Word was God and nothing was made or brought to passe but by this Word John 1. 1. 2. and this Word was the Wisedome of God by which he spoke and acted and fore-seeth things to come and it was this Word or Scripture that fore-saw by which God fore-told Abraham things to come and this Word or Scripture and God is all one And the Apostle who knew the truth hereof divers times useth the Word Scripture for the Word God when he is speaking of Gods fore-seeing speaking or acting as may plainely appeare where he saith The Scripture hath concluded all under unbeleife Gal. 3. 22. the which act the Scripture Declarative never could doe but the Scripture or Word Essenciall which is God the truth of which is cleared by the same Apostle speaking of the same subject where he saith That God had concluded all under unbeleife c. Rom. 11. 32. And further in speaking of what the Scripture said to Pharaoh Even for this purpose have I raysed thee up c Rom. 9. 17. which saying was not spoken to Pharaoh nor which worke was wrought upon him by the Scripture Declarative but by the Scripture or Word Essentiall which was God himselfe as may be seen in Exodus 9. 16. where it was plainly held out that it was God that spake these words and wrought that worke upon Pharaoh Now I would have that Author and all other to understand the true distinction between the Scripture or Word Essentiall and the Scripture or word Declarative for if they doe not it is possible they will adde to the one and diminish the other and then let them take heed of the curse that John speaketh of at the end of the Revelation But the Author goeth on in his Discourse in his blindnesse and all along attributeth that to the word Declarative which is the proper worke of the word Essenciall and so brings to prove what he â—aies the saying of the Apostle in Heb. 4. 12. where it is said The Word of God is quicke and powerfull and sharper then any two edged Sword c. the which he falsly applyeth to the Scripture Declarative which in it selfe is as dead as a stone except the Essenciall word first move in the heart of man otherwise how is it that all mens thoughts and intents is not discovered by Hearing or Reading it but what the Apostle speaketh there is the very worke of the Essenciall word or God himselfe as the following verse of the same Chapter will truely witnesse where the Apostle doth more illustrate and lay open the property of the Essenciall word and saith Neither is there any creature that is not manifested in his sight but all things are naked and layd open before the eyes of him with whom we have to doe And doth not God plainely declare by the Prophet That it is he himselfe that searcheth the heart and tryeth the reines Jer. 17. 9. 10. O what blindnesse is amongst men yea amongst Professors also that they cannot see nor be made beleeve what is the word of God but in their blindnesse taketh the Scripture Declarative for the word of God for which they have neither example nor command in that Scripture they doe so much Idolize but onely as they have received that word by Tradition from their fore-Fathers who was blinded in their understanding and could not know any other word of God and so gave that name to the Scriptures because they were not acquainted with the Essenciall word within them therefore their wit carryed them to Scripture without them and finding some saying in it which suited with their reason as such sayings as these They spake the Word of God with boldnesse Acts 4 31. But the Word of God grew and multiplyed Acts 12. 24. Not handling the Word of God deceitfully Rom. 4. 2. Take the Word of God which is the Sword of the Spirit Ephes. 6. 17. It is sanctified by the Word of God and Prayer 1 Tim. 4. 5. and divers other speaking in Scripture to that purpose which all of them is the proper effects of the Eternall Word the Sonne of God the which but few of our wise learned Rabbies have knowne and therefore have they understood that these sayings which held out the property of the Eternall with its effects to be the property of the Scripture and its effects But when our Saviour who was the Word it selfe had occasion to use Scripture he gave no such title to Scripture but said It is Written in such a Booke or Is it not Written in your Law John 10. 34. And when the Apostles had occasion to speake out of the Scripture did they not follow the same rules And when the Apostle Peter would pronounce the Scripture by another name he calleth it A sure Word of Prophesie But this epithite the Word of God was not at all given to it untill the Eternall Word was hid and man wanted the life and power thereof within him and then his wit found the Word of God without him and to these dayes our wise Rabbies understand it so and makes Fooles beleeve that what they say is true and under this pretence they take to themselves the name of the Ministers of God and that which they Preach is the Word of God when as they know not what the word of God is but what they gather out of the Scriptures which is nothing else but a Declaration of the word of God without a man but as for that which is the Word it selfe the which should live in them and they in it and what that word spake in them to declare to others alas they know not what it meaneth but busyeth themselves to persecute and scandalize these in whom the Essenciall word liveth and they in it And that Author being of the Disciples of thefe Rabbies doth play his part on their side and in his Discourse runns himselfe stone blinde about advancing Ordinances and Scripture to that end for which they were never intended but if the blind leade the blind they had best take heed of
AN ANSVVER To Vindicate the Cause of the Nick-named Quakers of such scandalls and untruths as is falsly cast upon them in a lying Pamphlet otherwise called A Discourse concerning the Quakers set out by T. L. or as I understand the signification of the Letters Tho Ledger By GEO BAITEMAN A Word to the Reader of this Booke IT is common among the sonns of men every one to vindicate his own cause whether he be in the right or wrong For Solomon saith Every man seems to be just in his own cause And the truth is every one will speake the best he can in his own behalfe But Christian friend whatever thou art that Readeth these ensuing Lines I would have thee to understand that I have not written these Lines in my own defence or to vindicate my selfe of any aspersions that any can cast upon me in any kinde whatsoever for though I am a man who have undergone and at this day doe undergoe the heavy burthen of false aspersions cast upon me by the fools of the times who neither know me nor themselves yet to me they are no more then the barking of curs the which may affright children for my backe is broade enough to beare all the weight of these burthens and am possessed with a Spirit that maketh me easily passe by all the censures of men and had the cause been my own which is included in these Lines I thinke they had never come to the beholding but my Spirit is such that it leadeth me out rather to justifie others then my selfe for I would have thee to know that my Sect or Profession Tenets or Religion call it what thou wilt is neither of that sort of People called Quakers neither am I Papist Prelacyan Presbyterian Independant Anabaptist Famelist Brownist Arryan Atheist Free-willer Free gracian Raunter Saduccy or Lihertine c. then make of me what thou pleaseth yet such a one I am as knoweth my right hand from my left and that is enough for any man to know and by that light in me I am made in some measure to see what is of God and what is of man and what is of the spirit of darkenesse I professe unto thee I am not the Enemy of any man neither doth any mans Forme or Religion trouble me but wish all men well in their way yet I must tell thee that I am not unacquainted with the wyles of Satan in Formes and out of Formes and likewise of Gods working both in Formes and out of Formes and what I have found by experience I wish that all men had found the same and aâ— hundred times more And I must tell thee I am led out to owne the truth of God where ever I see it in a Forme or out of a Forme but the purest truths is not manifested in Formes though Formes may have their time and in their time is tollerable if not Idolized And to give thee a true Reason why I was led out to draw these Lines it is to vindicate the truth in its appearing in some people in these dayes the which is disposed to the scandall and reproach of most people in these times some by wrong imprisonment some by beating some by threatning some by false accusations and scandalls some by Petitions and some by writing lying Pamphlets all of these arising from the very malice and instigation of the Devill who would have these poore people destroyed for he well knoweth that if these goe on his kingdome will fall Amongst those whom the devill moveth to act and speake against these people one T. L. or Tho Ledger hath written a lying Pamphlet the which I have here answered in some of his false accusations therein and if time would but have permitted I would have answered them more fully but what is here spoken I hope may serve to give thee satisfaction of the truth in these people and if thou have but any light of God in thee thou wilt see and mayest easily judge that these people are no other then such as God hath marvailously called to himselfe to make the riches of his goodnesse knowne in their soules and what ever either Formalists or other say against these people take thou heed thou be not as one of them for better were it for thee to have a Mill-stone hung about thy necke and throwne into the midst of the Sea then that thou shouldest offend one of these that beleeve in God in whom Christ liveth and they in him And for thy better information in the truth I haue drawne these Lines the which I freely commit to thy Christian consideration and the Lord give thee a good understanding that thou mayest learne to have a good opinion of any People in whom the truth of God doth appeare And my desire is that the God of Truth may make his Truth knowne to thee whereby thou mayst be made to know what evill is in thy selfe and the emptinesse of all things acted and created let thy Forme be what it will This is the worst I wish thee Geo Baiteman An Answer to vindicate the cause of the nicknamed Quakers c. THere is two great monsterous evils in the world and they are common among the sonns of men and from these two evills ariseth all other sinnes and wickednesse whatsoever acted spoken or thought either against God himselfe or against any appearance of God in his creature Man and by the venome which ariseth from these two evills one man is set against another in bitter envyings evill wishings evill speeches evill actings c. Now these two great evills is the very ground and originall Rice of all other evill as is before-said the one of these hath its proper being in one of the chiefe faculties of the soule viz. the Reason and by the operations from thence proceeding the sonnes of men becommeth much deprived of the pure understanding of the truth as it is in Jesus And the other great evill hath its proper being in another chiefe faculty of the soule viz. the Will from the operations of which evill ariseth all disobedience and rebellion against the Truth as it is in Jesus yet the difference between the sinns arising from these grounds is great though nothing that ariseth from either be good the evill effect proceeding from the ground or cause in the Reasonable part will be found inferiour to these which ariseth out of the Will Yet wise Solomon saith Without Knowledge the Soule is not good Prov. 19. 2. And God complaineth by the Prophet That his People perished for want of knowledge Hos. 4. 6. And Solomon who knew how wicked the sonns of men were without knowledge and how darke and blinde they were in the understanding the dictates of God without Knowledge how oft doth he counsell men to seek W. sedome and prize her above Gold But who is that wise man that can truely distinguish between the Wisedome of God and the light which is in Reason which may be much increased
the justice of God upon his soule in such a measute as hath made all his bones to quake let him not judge those who have been so dealt withall for before any soule be truely brought to live in the power of the life of God he shall undoubtedly passe through the justice of God in such a measure as shall make both his bones and all his faire prosession quake and though the Author have not knowne this by experience yet I marvaile that such a one as he who cryeth up Scripture so high as to make it no lesse then God himseife as shall be shewed afterwards should be so unacquainted with Gods dealing with some of his people in former time For sure if he had lived in those dayes he would have called Moses a Quaker and that his trembling proceeded from the Devill when the appearance of the Majesty of God in the terrible giving out of the Law was manifested to him Heb. 12. 21. And sure he would have said that Ezekiel was a Quaker and his trembling was of the Devill when he eate his bread with quaking Ezek. 12. 18. And of Daniel and those with him would he have said the same when the Majesty of God was manifested to to them Dan. 10. 7. And if this Author had been beside the Campe of the Israelites before the giving out of the Law he might have seen Quakers great store Exod. 19. 16. And if he had lived in Ezraes time he might have seen Quakers enough Ezra 9. 4. What would this Author have said if he had seen Habakkuk tremble at the appearance of the Majesty of God Hab. 3. 16. What doth this Author thinke of Mary James and Salome who trembled at the rising of Jesus Marke 16. 8. Or of David when his Flesh trembled for the feare of God Psal. 119. 120. And of Foelix who trembled at the words of Paul A s 24. 25. And of Job who trembled at Gods dealing with him Job 4. 14. 21. 6. And is not trembling an evident symptome of the soules undergoing the wrath of God for sinne as may be seen in Esay 51. 17. 22. Was not Ephraim exalted when he spake trembling Hos. 13. 1. What was Paul when he was converted to the Truth Acts 9. 6. From what spirit came the Jaylours trembling when he fell at the feet of the Apostles Is quaking such a strange thing and of such an evill nature when the Apostle commanded the People to worke out their Salvation with feare and trembling Phil. 2. 12. It were too tedious to rehearse all presidents in Scripture which is of like nature which beareth witnesse of the truth of quaking but this Author layeth not to heart what People the Scripture saith should arise in the last time such as should be false accusers and mockers at the workings of God But I would have this Author and all other of his Fellow Formalists to consider the Word of the Lord spoken by Esay in the 66. Chapter for there are you all Pictured out and spoken to And so are the poore despised People also whom you call Quakers I will not rehearse the words but wiâ—â— you and all other accusers and mockers to reade the same and the Lord give you the true understanding of it and I wish that that Author may be better informed in his judgement concerning the workings of God in his creatures and I wish him to Pray that his lyes and the evill thought of his heart may be pardoned Further this Author saith That these People are possessed with an aussere Devill because they take no more of the creatures then will serve necessity And in opposition to them he is speaking of a People called Raunters who exceedeth in these things but as for such I have nothing to say for what they doe cxcept God let such a People rise to be aâ— signes of the pride and rich deckings of the Harlot in those and by those who have a Forme of godlinesse and yet live not in the power of God But as for these whom he calleth Quakers my spirit is led out to justifie them in what they doe as concerning the bringing downe their pride of heart and mortifying the sences but such worke as this is not tollerable amongst Formalists who can have the liberty to feed their sences and uphold their pride and keep reputation amongst men and runne after profit as greedily as any in the world nay is not almost all knavery in the world masked with a Forme of Religion in these dayes Formes of Religion is the fashion of the times and now adayes Priests and witty men and Taylors is all hard put to it the one to invent the finest Forme and the other to invent new Fashion of Apparell for these Formalists to weare And when God is pleased to raise up a People of his owne accord to forsake the folly of these things and to cry out against the evill in these things O how doth the Harlot in the Formalist begin to stir her selfe and by all meanes possible seeke to scandalize or root out such people as would have her skirts turned over her Face that her nakednesse and naughtinesse might appeare But this is no strange thing to me for it hath alwayes been the fashion of the Sonns of the Bond-woman to persecute the Free-borne Sons and I make no doubt but if Christ and John Baptist were both in Person among us but that the one would be called a friend of the Publicans and the other that he had to doe with a Devill For wheresoever there is a Forme of godlinesse and the power awanting these people cannot chuse but be the enemies of God and the greatest opposers of his Worke when he Worketh or bringeth any thing to passe contrary to the order they have limited foâ— him The Author in his proceeding takes it for a strange delution that these People live above Ordinances and that they should have a light in them equall to Scripture and that that light should be the holy Ghost and that they need not Scripture to be taught by because the same is fulfilled in them and what they speake or write is equall to Scripture And then bringeth in a saying of Christs to admonish People to take heed of such light the which he applyeth as truely as quaking and trembling comes by the Devill the which is cleerely confuted before As to the first of these viz. That People should be led to live above Ordinances I would know of the Author what Ordinances he meaneth of whether the Ordinance of God or the Ordinances of men and I would have him to know what an Ordinance is and for what end Ordinances was ordained and I would have him to know a difference between an Ordinance of God and that which is but the Ordinance of men but I feare he cannot as yet see a difference between them and therefore maketh a humble jumble of both together But for the clearing of the same I would
hope the Author will not deny the truth of these Scriptures and if these promises be fulfilled in any man what need hath such of Scripture reaching without them when they have received the same spirit within them by which all true Scripture was written and how much is the words proceeding from that spirit inferiour to Scripture except the holy Ghost have changed its nature and be not what it was formerly for it is not time and persons that make mens words differ or not be in equallity to the word in Scripture but the spirit from whence they flow And doth not all ordinances point out or leade to that very end that God and Man should be united in one spirit that he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified may be one And if any soule be so made one with God who dare deny but all true Scripture is fulfilled in them and that such soules have no need of any to teach them because that anointing which they have received is able to teach them all things 1 Iohn 2. 27. But I say no more to that because the truth of what they say herein is so largely amplified in Scripture except it be to poore blind iddeots whose envy against others have shut their eyes from seeing and their hearts from understanding the Truth of Scripture The Author of that Discourse proceedeth still in questioning the light which is in these people and amongst the rest of his scandals east upon them would make people beleeve that these people deny the Scriptures the which is a most false aspersion for there is not a people in England that is more conformable to the very outward requiring of Scripture then these people and that light within them doth leade them and causeth them to act according to what the Scripture requireth in the practicall part thereof in their obedience to which their very outward practice doth condemne all men in the Land both religious and irreligious for they follow the words of our Saviour where he saith Take no thought for to morrow And having Food and Rayment therewith be content c. Mat. 6. 26. 27. And in mortifying their Sences and Members they follow the command of the Apostle to divers of the people he taught which Rule he followed himselfe 1 Cor. 9. 27. and yet this Author saith They are possessed with an austere Devill and denyes Scripture for so doing but let but a wise man judge whether those who pretend Scripture and talke of Scripture or those that practice Scripture deny it most for every one that cryeth up Scripture with their Tongue are not those that confesse Scripture but those are they that truely confesse it that in their practice is conformable to it for every one shall not enter into Heaven for talking of Scripture and making discourses of God out of Scripture nor that sayeth Lord Lord but they that doe the Will of the Father But it is no marvaile to me if these people be so cryed out against with all people for their very outward life is a Witnesse against all sorts both Formalists and others For there is no difference between the Formalists and men who are not conformed for both are alike for pride and sensuality and for the love of the world and for reputation amongst men all of them having hearts alike in the worship of the god of the World onely the Formalists differ from the other in their head by which they are carryed beyond the other into a faire seeming Forme in which they worship God according to their good-thinking but yet their Forme will admit their hearts to worship the gods of the Heathen I may speak it with sadnesse of heart seeing the truth hereof so clearely and cannot deny but all Formalists and unconformed are but hornes springing out of the same head of the Beast which John saw in his Revelation Further the light that is in these people is not at all contrary to what the Scripture holdeth out in the Mystery but the same being truely fulfilled in them they are made able to witnesse the truth in the Scripture and no other way can any soule be a true witnesse of the truth of Scripture but by having the same truely fulfilled in them for all other are but false witnesses and speaketh but of it from what they have heard or received from others and these people is made able by the light which is in them to witnesse the truth of the love of God made knowne to their soules and of other of Gods dealing with them and will not vary from Scripture but owne it and take it to witnesse the truth of what they doe declare to others And I am sure that many of the Priests in England can witnesse the truth of what I say if their malice would but let them for the time hath been and not long since that some of the Priests made tryall of them thinking to confute them and make them appeare as erronious but it proved the contrary way for not long had they dissoursed with them but the Priests was strucken dumbe before them and had not a word to say but was forced to fly like beaten Cockes in so much that the very vulgar people shouted at the beaten Priests and some did averre that they conceived that no fewer then an hundred soules was convinced of the truth at that time And yet these beaten Priests deviseth all wayes possible to root out these people but they are but like the people with whom Steven conversed who was not able to resist the spirit he spake from yet they stoned him to death Acts 7. â—7 c. The Author of that Discourse proceedeth about the exhaltation of Scripture and sayes whatsoever is essentiall to God the same is appropriated to Scripture the which saying if well considered is no lesse then blasphemy Whether was it God or the Scripture that Created the World and all other things Or whether was it Scripture or Christ that suffered for the sinne of man or whether is it Scripture or Christ that reconcileth God to man or whether is it Scripture or God that maketh the Winde blow where it listeth and the Raine to fall in its appointed season c. If that be true which he saith why is not every one sanctified and made holy that Heareth or Readeth Scripture Alas when men have no other light but the light of reason to beare witnesse to the truth of Scripture what soule mistakes doe they light on in medling with Scripture for as some being led by their wilde wandering wit make lesse of the Scripture then it is so this Author is carried by that light to make more of the Scripture then it is and to make good what he affirmeth he quoteth Gal. 3. 8. where the Apostle is speaking of things in the dayes of Abraham which was before any Scripture was Written and because the Apostle sayes The Scripture foreseeiâ—g such things therefore it is like God who fore-seeth