Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	apostle_n	gospel_n	preach_v	2,817	5	6.7760	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A14657	The svmme of a dispvtation betweene Mr. VValker, pastor of St. Iohn Euanglists [sic] in Watling-street London, and a popish priest calling himselfe Mr. Smith, but indeed Norrice assisted by other priests and papists : held in the presence of some worthy knights, with other gentlemen of both religions.	Walker, George, 1581?-1651.; S. N. (Sylvester Norris), 1572-1630.	1624 (1624)	STC 24960.5; ESTC S2955	22,486	46

desired to heare Mr. Walker dispute vpon his questions Which when Mr. Smith seemed loath to yeeld vnto as being weary already Mr. Walker desired that he might but turne one Argument against Mr. Smiths question and proue the contrary to be true To this all assented and the Gentleman who began to distrust his former professed Popery comming to Mr. Walker and standing at his backe desired him to presse one Argument against Mr. Smiths question Whereupon Mr. Walker thus began to proue That a true Christian Church might erre for a time in some fundamentall point and yet be a true Church Mr. Walker That which the auncient Apostolicall Church might doe other succeeding Churches may doe with the same successe The Apostolicall Church might erre and did erre in a maine point and yet haue a true faith and was a true Church Ergo other Churches also Mr. Smith I deny the minor the Apostolicall Church did not erre in any maine point Mr. Walker The resurrection of Christ from the dead taught in the Scriptures is a fundamentall point of Faith The Apostolike Church did erre in it Ergo Mr. Smith denyed the minor Mr. VValker proued it thus That which the Gospell teacheth in expresse words is true This the Gospell teacheth that the Apostles erred in Christs resurrection Ergo. Mr. Smith If you say that they erred in the resurrection de facto that is concerning the act of it I grant the minor But if you speake of the resurrection as it is a point of Faith I deny your minor Mr. VValker You distinguish strangely betweene a thing and it selfe for the very act of Christs resurrection is a point of Faith without which our faith is vaine as the Apostle sayth 1 Cor. 15. 17. Mr. Smith It is now a point of faith but it was not then because the Scriptures had not expressely revealed that Christ should rise from death Mr. Walker That which Christ had expresly taught by word of mouth was thereby made a point of Faith and they were bound to beleeue But he had told them that he must suffer and rise againe the third day and that in plaine words as the Gospell testifies Ergo. Here some of the Gentlemen said that the point was sufficiently proued Mr. Smith But I deny that the Apostles erred in the Resurrection shew me that out of the Gospell Mr. Walker It is testified Ioh. 20. 9. That they knew not the Scripture that he must rise from the dead Loe thus it is testified in your owne vulgar Latine Bible Mr. Smith I say still that the Scriptures had not reuealed it sufficiently and therefore it was no point of faith Mr. Walker The text shewes that the Scripture had reuealed for else how could it truely say that they knew not the Scripture if the Scripture had not taught it It is no ignorance of Scripture not to know what the Scripture neuer taught Sir William Harrington O well sayd I protest I neuer heard any point so plainely proued and then turning himselfe to the wauering Gentleman said Now cousen if euer thou wilt be conuerted be conuerted with these proofes Mr. Walker But yet I will proue it more fully Luk. 24. 44. 45. Our Sauiour there saith that he had told them before that he must die and rise againe and that it was written in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and in the Psalmes and it is said there that he opened their vnderstanding that they might vnderstand the Scriptures Mr. Smith This was an error of ignorance or forgetfulnesse for want of instruction and exercise in the Word which succeeding Churches haue more aboundantly Mr. Walker You cauill against common sense for I dispute not whence this error proceeded but whether they erred in that maine point of the resurrection or not and that you cannot deny so that the point is fully proued which I vndertooke Againe I can shew you yet further that Christ having instructed them in the Scriptures and from his owne mouth it could not be for want of instruction that they erred but this error proceeded from incredulity and hardnes of heart in them so it appeares Mark 16. 14. where it is said that our Sauiour appeared to the eleven Apostles and vpbraided them with their incredulitie and hardnesse of heart because they beleeued not them which had seene him after he was risen Another Priest Mr. Smith being put to silence with those proofes the other Priest to make vp this breach fled to another shift and denyed the Apostles to haue beene a Church at that time because the holy Ghost was not yet come downe nor the Euangelicall Law reuealed Mr. Walker Vpon this Mr. Walker first spake to the wauering Gentleman and asked him whether he thought it not well for him to be of such a Church as St. Peter was when Christ said Math. 16. Happy art thou Simon c. And vpon this rocke I will build my Church Who answered that he desired to be of no better Church Secondly he proceeded thus The Kingdome of God which comes by the Preaching of the Gospell is the true Church But that was come alreadie as our Sauiour himselfe testified Matth. 11. 28. and Luk. 11. 20. It is a base shift to say that the comming downe of the holy Ghost made them a Church For his extraordinary gifts came not to make them Christians and members of the Church of Christ but to make them fit messengers to Preach to all Nations and to euery people in their proper tongue But if all this will not conuince you let vs know who were the Church in those dayes if the Apostles were not Peter had receiued that commission and promise long before vpon which you build the Church of Rome if it was not then able to make him of the Church how can it now vphold your Church against all the gates of hell Now then to conclude I beseech you as you loue your soules take heed of sinning against your owne Conscience and of rebelling against the light you know that the Apostles were elected from all eternitie they were effectually called by Christ himselfe not onely to beleeue and to be Christians and open professors but also to be Apostles and Preachers and by the Gospell Preached and Miracles wrought they had conuerted many to the faith as the Gospell testifieth And therefore nothing being wanting in them which is required to the essence of a Christian Church vndoubtedly they were a true Church and to deny this is to resist the manifest truth of the Gospell Thus the disputation ended for the Priests did not giue any answer but were very willing to make an end The Protestant Gentlemen seemed well satisfied and made them readie to depart And one of the Roman Catholikes calling Mr. VValker aside began to collogue and flatter with him telling him that he was a good Logician a good Linguist and well read and that God had giuen him a sharpe wit and ready tongue And therefore no maruell though he preuailed and made a good cause seeme bad when he opposed it and a bad seeme good when he defended it But saith he take heed that you do not trust to your wit and learning too much least they deceiue you and make you triumph ouer the truth To him Mr. Walker answered that he knew himselfe inferiour to many hundreds in the Church of England that it was not any power in himselfe but the power of the true cause which made him to preuaile For Magnus est veritas praeualebit Great is truth and will preuaile A Gentleman ouer-hearing laughed and sayd I am glad that you finde some of our Ministers more learned then your Priests contrary to your common bragging and boasting that all learning is among your Priests and Iesuites And so they parted Mr. Smith alias Norrice embracing Mr. Walker and saying I pray God we may meet in heauen and Mr. Walker replying and saying I desire so also and hope we shall so doe if you will forsake your errours and embrace the truth which is professed in the reformed Churches of CHRIST Soli Deo gloria FINIS Math. 13. 4. 16. 12.