Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n
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A75396
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An answer by an anabaptist to the three considerations proposed to Mr William Penn by a pretended Baptist concerning a Magna Charta for liberty of conscience. Allowed to be published this 10th day of September, 1688.
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1688
(1688)
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Wing A3275; ESTC R230112
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11,228
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14
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as a Blessing to his Posterity will deserve the highest marks of favour from all good Men and may therein also expect a Blessing from Heaven Liberty say you is indeed a Fine Word but Remember Brethren what the Apostle Peter hath told us That some there were that while they promise them Liberty they themselves are the Servants of Corruption And Observe what Follows â—or of whom a Man is overcome of the same he is brought in Bondage And then you ask I suppose Mr. Penn or my self How Do You. How will you like that Word Answer I like it as part of Holy writ Teaching me 1 Not to abuse that Liberty whereunto I am called by the Gospel 2 To prize that Liberty in the Gospel which is indulged me by my Soveraign and to promote what in me lyes the Establishing of it by a New Charter 3 Not to hearken to you or any which perhaps did never feel the want of this Liberty and would misguide me and take an Occasion to deceive me of it by talking of Liberties of another Sort which signifie nothing to me or any other Conscientious Dissenters if we be deprived of this 4 as inducing me for the better understanding of the Text you cite to consider the Context by which I am caution'd not to hearken to any such as promise me Liberty who are themselves overcome by and in Bondage to their own Fleshly poluting Lusts 5 as instructing me by certain Characters to discern what sort of Persons they are who by enticing Words would beguile me of my Liberty chiefly such as despise Government are Presumptious and not afraid to speak Evil of Dignities And with this short Paraphrase I may after your Example ask How do You Or how will you like that word In this I agree with what you say The Name of Liberty signifies nothing without the Substance And that which the Dissenters desire and endeavour after is that such a Liberty may be obtained and secured by a New Charter to Perpetuity as is substantial But in this we may differ if you think a present Liberty signifies nothing for it is now and will be at all times so long as we can enjoy it the present comfort of our Lives and of so great value that I think he that has felt the want of it will not easily be enticed to make a Forfeiture of his present Liberty by taking any such course as you steer to Secure Penal Laws for Coertion of Conscience under the Name of Substantial and English Liberties If these Penal Lawes be the Goose you advise us not to part with for sticking down a Feather and the Bird in the Hand I cannot Guess how you came to be a Baptist sure I am you do not shew your selfe in the Colours of an English Anabaptist for your course tends to the bâ—â—ding of Heavy Burthens on their and other Dissenters Shoulders which its most likely you never did nor will touch with one of your Fingers You exhort us To be of one mind as Brethren to let Brotherly Love and Charity continue and tell us nothing will save us but Vnion Pray take your part in the Exhortation let Brotherly Love have a beginning for I fear that is not yet settled between us and then I doubt not but the profitable Experience of the Exercise of it will give it a continuance If you are for uniting be content to part with those Offensive Weapons that have caused our divisions let our Civil Liberties as Men and our Religious Liberties as Christians be settled upon sure Foundations let temporal penalties for dissent in spirituals be set aside and the hard Names of Sedition Felony Treason be sever'd from such things as are in no manner offensive to the Civil Goverment but meer Opinions and peaceable Exercises subsequent in matters of Religion Let us learn to be kindly affectionate and Compassionate as Men and Neighbours ought to be one to another whether True Believers Misbelievers or Vnbelievers and then there will be no ground to fear that the Corruptions or projects of Rome Geneva France Holland or any thing else should ever dis-unite us or be able to gain any advantage by attempting to sow amongst us the Seeds of Dissention FINIS
an intimate Associate with the most eminent of Dissenters that when he was of Christ Church Colledge in Oxford he was fined for his dissent from the Religious Ceremonies of the Colledge He suffered many Hardships in his Fathers Family on that account has been a constant Advocate these Twenty Years for the Liberty we enjoy and hope to to have confirm'd I have heard of many good Offices he has done at Court both for Dissenters and Conformists that he has improved that Favour which has been shewn him by his Prince both before and since his Ascending to the Throne for the Benefit and not to the Prejudice of others I have not known of any rich Presents or Rewards that have been given or required for any of his Services or any Employments he seeks or accepts of How his pleadings for Liberty of Conscience has or can tend to the improvement of his Revenues I cannot apprehend neither therefore if you will free your self from the suspition of an ill Design and a groundless Aspersion tho Mr Penn may be no Friend to such pretended Baptists and nominal Dissenters as you are its incumbent on you to shew wherein he has manifested that he had formerly no great Kindness for those that are really such upon this account I pass by your trifling about the enlarging or limiting Authority by the power or will length or shortness of Mr Penn's Life and proceed Thirdly To consider above all what Security or Validity this New Charter can be of when there is a standing Army kept on Foot Whether Guns will hear Reason or Dragoons mind Charters or Arguments your reference to their practice in France if we are not strangely Infatuated and given up to Ruin and Destruction your Query whether their Carriage and Quartering will agree with a New Charter for Liberty and if Mr Penn be a Friend to Liberty for Liberties sake you desire an honest clear nnd satisfactory Answer to these Three Points In Mr Penn's stead give me leave at present to return you an answer by asking you some Questions Is the Western Rebellion slipt out of your mind Was there no occasion given for multiplying Dragoons Is Soveraign Power so limited by our Laws as that it cannot make use of such means as are of apparent and absolute necessity for its own preservation Did you ever know of any Army wherein no dissorders were committed in their Marches or Quarterings Are our Dragoons without any discipline for reforming or punishing abuses when they are complained of Do you and such as follow your Examples take a right course to avoid such mischiefs being done in England by Dragoons as are committed in France I am as far from defending any of their disorders or desiring their continuance longer then needs must as I am from beleiving you to be a Baptist But sure I am whatever you are your Reasonings are very unsavory and unsafe tending to fasten us under that Bondage you seemingly advise us to avoid for to deal plainly and honestly with you as you desire Mr Penn to do I see no way to escape the dissorders that are either felt or feared but by giving His Majesty full satisfaction not only of our Fidelity but of our Affection also to his Person and Government in complying with what he shall propose for maintenance of the National Religion and all the possessions of the Clergy as Established by Law and abolishing all such Penalties for Non-conformity to the National Religion as may be found inconsistent with the common Right and Reason of Mankind Doctrines of Christianity and Interest of England I shall now consider your closing points 1 In the mean time it appears to be highly the Duty of all Men as well Dissenters as others who have Votes in choosing Parliament-Men above all to choose such Faithful Patriots as will take care of these things already hinted and others that may be brought before them that our Liberties our Laws and our Lives may be preserved from ill designing Men and from future Quo Warranto's and all the high Violaters and Infringers thereof called to accompt and justly punished this will well become them and secure us more then any titular Charter what soever If you had only advised the choosing Faithful Patriots for Parliament-Men without cutting out their Work your advice might have been sound or if you had only looked forwards that our Liberties and our Lives might be preserved from ill designing Men and our Laws so settled that all good Subjects may equally share in the benefit of them your Advice might have been seasonable for it is evident that our Circumstances require as wise and moderate Men experienced in civil and Religious affairs as every Parliament in England did and if the Nation be bless'd with such a Choice in the next Parliament all sober persons may by their wise Councels be out of fear of suffering Prejudice by future accidents of State But at this juncture to talk of calling to an Accompt and punishing all such as you may reckon high Violaters and Infringers of our Laws and Liberties is very unseasonable Pray tell us since you undertake to Chalk out the way for a Parliament and propose the Work you would have done by them how far they are to look back and where and with what sort of Men you would have them begin with such of the Clergy or of the Lawyers as were the first Advancers of Prerogative above your measures or with the Dissenters for thankfully accepting the Kings Indulgence and making use of the Liberty he has been pleaed to grant in their peaceable and Religious Assemblies after so many Convulsions in the State Plots and Counter-plots as we have known in our Age. The same things to be liable to Penalties at one season which at another time have been marks of the greatest Loyalty sober Men cannot but think it is high time to adhere to and persue those Royal Methods that have been with good success begun and are proposed to be settled on terms of lasting security and Peace If the Case should be proposed to any Assembly your self being in the company in reference to any Man that you can mark out as it was by the Jewes in reference to the Adulteress before our Saviour That he who is without Fault should cast the first Stone your supposed Criminal might escape by the Assemblys going out one by one from the Eldest to the last convict in their own Consciences and if you should have the confidence to stay behind the rest it might be no good evidence of an awaken'd Conscience but if Peace-makers have singular marks of favour always attending them certainly such worthy Patriots as at this season shall be found in that Work repairing our Breaches healing our Divisions setling our Civil and Religious concerns that whoever will conscientiously discharge his duty to God his King and his Neighbour may not only enjoy Peace and Truth in his Days but leave it on like terms