the Demonstration of the Spirit and of power C. True there is no compare between these But hath your Minister that Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power N. C. Yes sure if ever any man had C. That 's good news for then we shall see that which before we only believed Hath he the gifts of the Holy Gost Can he speak with Tongues and Prophesie and work Miracles and tell us the thoughts of mens hearts N. C. What do you mean C. I mean that which the Apostle Saint Paul meant who had this Demonstration of the Sipirit and of Power which he gave the world to convince them that Jesus was risen from the dead and was made Lord of all whom they were therefore bound to obey N. C. But I mean something else C. Pray tell me what that is Only let me desire you not to use words without the sense belonging to them and to intreat your Minister that he would hereafter forbear to pray to God that he may speak in the Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power for no body now can hope to do it N. C. I mean that he is spiritually enlightned to search the deep things of the Spirit of God which the natural man cannot discern C. I wonder at you that you should not discern the Apostle there speaks of the Holy Ghost i.e. the wonderful Gifts of it in them which â—ssured them of those things that no meer natural Reason could prove I doubt your Minister is not spiritually enlightned because he doth not instruct you better in the Scriptures N. C. Scriptures He never says 〈…〉 but he quotes a place of Scripture for it 〈…〉 Sermons are nothing else whereas you 〈…〉 but Rational Discourses C. I remember I have heard a wise man say that one may talk nothing but Scripture and yeâ— speak never a wise word And I verily believe it for it is not the Word of God when we mistake its sense as you commonly do N. C. Doth yours do any better C. Yes he seems to me to make it his business to let us into the meaning of the holy Book And he backs his Reason not with phrases snatch'd from thence but with such place as manifestly speak the same sense that he doth N. C. I have heard him sometimes endeavouâ— to open the Scripture but methinks he doth not do it in a Spiritual way but onely Rationally C. My good Neighbour consider what yoâ— say Do you think that these two words Spirituaâ— and Rational are opposed the one to the other If they be then Spiritually is as much as Irrationally and absurdly N. C. No pardon me there I do not think those two are opposite but Carnal Reason is opposite to the Spirit C. To speak properly you should say that Carnal Reason is opposite to Spiritual Reason That is a Reason that is guided by Fleshly lusts â—s opposite to that which is guided by the Gospel of Christ Ns. C. I say as I said before it is opposite to the Spirit C. You must either mean as I do or else that it is opposite to the Gospel which is frequently called the Spirit in Scripture But pray tell me how shall we understand the Gospel by our Reason or by something else Ns C. By the Spirit C. What must we have an immediate Revelation to make us understand its sense or must we study and consider and lay things together and so come to know its meaning N. C. Yes we must give our minds to it and then the Spirit enlightens us C. That is it guides us to reason and discourse and judge aright Is not that it you mean N. C. No I mean it shines into our minds with its light C. These are phrases which I would have you explain if you can My Question is this Doth the Spirit shew as any new thing which is not the conclusion of the Reasonings and Discourses in our minds about the Sense of Scripture N. C. I cannot say it doth C. Then you confess that the Scripture is to to be interpreted in a Rational way we not having that which is truly to be called Spiritual in distinction from the other viz. the immediate revelation of the Holy Ghost which the Apostles had N.C. Still I cannot think that this is Spiritual C. That is you are prejudiced or else you phansie every thing that you do not understand to be Spiritual N.C. No not so but the manner of understanding the things of God methinks should be other than you conceive C. Truly if you have any other manner of understanding besides this and have not the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost I conclude you take the sudden and many times pretty suggestions of Imagination to be Illuminations from above N.C. Now you have hit on something that I would have said The Spirit doth often dart things into my mind C. How know you that Do you take every thing that comes into your head you know not how to be an Irradiation from the Holy Ghost N.C. No I dare not say so C. Then you examine it and consider whether it be rational and coherent or no. N.C. Yes C. Then you fall into our way whether you will or no. And whatsoever you think of us we do not deny but God's good Spirit puts good thoughts oft-times in our minds and represents things more clearly to us than we could make them by all our reasonings which is as much as to say that it lets us see the reasonableness and aptness of such a Sense for instance of the Divine Writings as we discerned not before N.C. Well I am glad to hear you speak so much of the Spirit C. You might hear ten times as much if you would but frequent our Assemblies For there we are constantly taught that the very ground and foundation of our Faith in Jesus Christ is the Spirit i.e. the Holy Ghost sent down from Heaven upon our Saviour and his Apostles N.C. You mix so much of Reason with what you say that I am afraid you are not in the right C. You should rather conclude the contrary and not believe any thing but what you have a good reason for N.C. Say you so How then shall I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God Can Reason tell me this C. I am sorry to see you so ill instructed If you had continued to hear our Minister he would have made you understand before this time that though our reason could not find out that Truth yet God hath given us the highest reason to believe it And this I told you is the Spirit the Spirit in Christ and in his Apostles N.C. Pray explain your meaning for I understand not these new Notions C. The Holy Ghost I mean descended on our Saviour at his Baptism with a voice from Heaven saying This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased This is one reason we have to believe on him Then he wrought miracles by the power of this
Days which is to make that necessary which God hath left free But yet notwithstanding you your selves stick not to lay such a necessity upon men of observing Dayes now and then as if there were a Divine Commandment for it for you think they have no Religion or want the Power of it that do not And what a stir do you keep to have Lectures on the Week-days as if we were dead and had but a Name to live unless we hear a Sermon or two then whereas very good Christians perhaps have no more time to spare from their honest Imployments than they ought to bestow in private Prayer and Meditation digesting of what they heard the Sunday before searching seriously into their Consciences and constant Examination of their Lives and Actions in conferring with their Ministers about their Doubts or those Indispositions or perhaps ill Inclinations which they find in their Souls in Comforting the poor and the sick in Endeavouring to reconcile Differences among Neighbors in consulting how to advance the publick Good either of the City or Town where they live and discharging the publick Office well to which they may be called If after all this done they can find any leisure to hear a Sermon who is there that forbids it We are only afraid lest whilst the necessity of that is so much urged things more necessary should be neglected N. C. You say a great many notable things but yet to me you seem a man of a slight Spirit which you betray when you speak of these weighty matters C. If you mean that I slight many of those things which you think matters of great weight and moment I cannot contradict you But why you should thence conclude I have a slight Spirit I see no cause For therefore I slight them because I have throughly consider'd and examin'd them and find there is nothing but Fansie or Superstition at the bottom of them Mistake me not your honest Affections I do not slight but the things to which you are so affected As for instance you abound in insignificant Phrases and Scripture-Expressions misapplied You have a great many Superstitious Conceits Opinions and oftimes alledg your Experiences very absurdly N. C. Nay now you discover your self Doth not this argue a profane Spirit to slight Experiences when the Apostle mentions Christian Experience as a part of our Rejoycing and Glory Rom. 5.4 C. I do not slight his Experiences but yours and not all of yours neither For if by your Experience you meant that you had made a proof of your Constancy and Faithfulness to Christ by patient enduring of any Affliction for Righteousness sake and made a Trial also of his Faithfulness in performing his promises of giving us Strength Support and Comfort which I conceive is the Apostle's meaning I should accuse my self of great Profaneness should I slight it But when you will needs give me this word for a proof of a thing of which I know you have no Experience and perhaps can have none and when you alledg your Experience in a matter of Reason and in effect say no more than this I pray believe me you must not take it ill if I make light of it As for example when you will tell us you find by Experience that you are in the right way it is a thing that may be entertain'd with a smile It is in truth no better than to say you may take my word for it For whether you be in the right or no is not to be known by Experience but by Reason In like manner if you tell me you find by Experience your Minister is a good man because he doth you good it is a frivolous Argument and I may be allow'd to slight it for it cannot be known by your Experience what he is You can only know by your Experience that you are made better but he may be bad enough notwithstanding As the Quakers were reform'd of Cheating and Cousenage in some places by those who there is great reason to suspect were cheating knaves themselves N. C. But I may know by Experience whether the things he preaches be true or no. C. It will deceive you if you rely upon that Proof For you may have some good done you by false Principles Nay those very Principles may make you do some things well which shall make you do other things ill N. C. That 's strange C. Not so strange as true For what Principle was it that led the Quakers to be just in their dealing N. C. That they ought to follow the Light within them C. This led them also to be rude and clownish and disrespectful to Governors For all is not Reason that is in us there is a world of Fansie also and the Flashes of this now and then are very sudden and amazing just like Lightning out of a Cloud By this they find they were mis-led in many things which they have now forsaken being content to wear Hatbands and Ribbons too which they so much at the first abominated N. C. I take them to be a deluded people C. And yet they are led they will tell you by Experience For they found themselvs amended by entring into that Religion whereas they cheated and cousened in all other Forms wherin they were before And therefore do not tell me any more of the good you have got by your private meetings nor make it an argument of their Lawfulness For the same Argument will be used against your selvs by the Quakers who will tell you God is in no private Meetings but only theirs for otherwhere they could never find him Take your choice and either let it alone your selves or else allow it them It will either serve both or neither N. C. But I have seen you smile if one bring his Experience to prove the truth of Christian Religion C. Yes and very deservedly Because the Ground upon which we believe it to be true cannot be known by Experience nor is your Experience of any thing in it a Ground for any other man to believe it You cannot know for instance by your Experience that our Saviour was born of a Virgin that the Holy Ghost came upon him at his Baptism with a Voice from Heaven saying This is my well-beloved Son in whom I am well pleased You cannot know by that means that he dyed that he rose the third day that he went to Heaven forty dayes after and after ten dayes more gave the Holy Ghost and that S. Paul was struck blind with the Glory of our Saviour whom 〈◊〉 saw and heard and was sent by him to preach the Gospel N. C. Yes I feel that he and the rest of the Apostles speak the very truth C. They say all these things and do you know them by your feeling The Apostles indeed felt or saw or heard them but we cannot do so nor know them by any other means than their Testimony N. C. I feel that their Testimony is true C. What
should insist much upon Doing For there are more Spiritual matters for Believers to be instructed in C. That is things revealed to us by the Spirit sent down upon the Apostles N.C. I know not what to say to your explication for I never heard it before But pray proceed C. I know no spiritual things but those which concern the glory of our Saviour in the heavens his power at Gods right hand his Intercession there for us his coming again to Judgment and such like which are proved to be true not by humane Reason but by the Spirit descending from heaven on the Apostles N.C. Well and are not these great things C. And do not our Ministers treat of them as well as yours N.C. But none in a spiritual way Ours treat of spiritual things spiritually C. I guess what you mean They treat of these things in such a manner as not to bring them down to meddle with our Lives or not much and chiefly as W. B. speaks Or thus they draw matter of Comfort from them but little or nothing of Duty N.C. I know not how to express it But I alway find that they handle these things in a sweeter manner than other men C. I believe you For nothing is so sweet and pleasing to flesh and bloud as for a man to hear how much a great Prince is in love with him and how freely he loves him how his heart beats in Heaven toward him and especially how careful and compassionate he is toward him in a persecuted condition N.C. And is not this very spiritual Doctrine C. Yes But setting aside all fancy nothing is more solidly open'd by our Divines than the power of our Saviour and his great love toward his faithful and obedient Disciples N.C. You must needs still bring in Obedience C. I have been taught to do so For this great Lord always loved righteousness and hated iniquity and therefore God hath anointed him with the oyl of gladness above his fellows i. e. given him such a Royal Power in the Heavens Hebr. 1.9 Unto which glory we cannot be promoted but by the same way of Righteousness And let me tell you I think I have heard it clearly demonstrated that though there is infinite comfort and satisfaction in believing that our Lord Jesus is so exaled and hath made us such promises which he is able to make good yet all this is but to incourage our Obedience and to make us constant and firm in the Christian Religion notwithstanding all the Difficulties and Troubles we meet withall for Christ's sake So that in truth these are the most spiritual Preachers that is the best Interpreters of the mind of the Spirit who urge and presse men from the consideration of what God hath revealed to us in these matters to be stedfast and unmoveable and abundant in the work of the Lord knowing that our labour shall not be in vain in the Lord. N.C. Doth not Christ himself say that the Work of God is Believing John 6.29 C. Yes but not such a believing as yours which is only a relying on Christ for the forgiveness of your Sins N.C. What was it then C. An effectual perswasion that God hath sent Jesus into the world as he there tells you This is the work of God that ye believe on him whom he hath sent And if you can think he means a bare perswasion of this that God sent him without the effects and fruits of it which is the becoming his Disciples sincere profession of his Religion and living according to it then the Devil may be a good Believer a very Spiritual person and great Saint for he very early acknowledged Him to be the Son of God And we read that the Devils believe and tremble N.C. Alas this is a poor Faith which cannot apply the Promise C. That 's because it is not made to them For if it were and they had but a good fancy they might apply it in your way as well as any body else and yet remain Devils still N.C. Now you go beyond all the bounds of Reason C. Because I follow you whose Doctrine leads to this N.C. How doth that appear C. I cast my eye casually upon one place in the Book newly nam'd and there I found this Mystery That though there is a Condition in the new Covenant yet no Condition to be perform'd by us but by Christ our second Adam pag. 69. And though he confesses somthing must be performed by us yet he saith it is all promised to us and that without Condition And therefore a little after he makes this a mark of those that are in Covenant to be begot again by a Promise especially the absolute Promise pag. 72. Now since no Condition is to be performed by us why should any person take any care about it or why should any one trouble himself about doing that which is already done for him or if it be not done is promised that it shall be done especially since his great work is as you say only to close with the promise to lay hold upon the absolute promise For no body being named particularly in the promise nor any quallification supposed in any man whereby he may know that he is capable of the Blessing rather than another no reason can be given why all should not apply it to themselves though never so bad nay why they ought not to apply it N.C. No that is too great a boldness they must be humbled and cast down C. Then it seems they ought to feel some Qualification in themselves which incourages them to lay hold on the Promise Though if it be absolute it 's more than needs nay than is good for they ought to have no respect to any of those things but only the Freeness of the Promise And then I pray why might not a Devil remain so still N.C. But such as are within the Covenant will find themselvs wrought upon to forsake their sins c. C. Grant that Yet if they do it is no Incouragement to them according to your Doctrine and therfore if they doe not it ought to be no Discouragement For they ought not to take any confidence to go to God because anything they find in themselvs and therefore they may be confident though they find nothing in themsevles but only a strong fancy that the Promise belongs to their Persons N.C. Though they cannot take any confidence because theyare so disposed toward God yet they must be well disposed C. Why so C. Will he have it so in order to give them Confidence to hope in his Mercy that their sins shall be forgiven N.C. No the promise of that is absolute C. Then one man may be as confident that hath not those Dispositions as he that hath believing that it is God's will he shall have them when he pleases N.C. I see you understand nothing of the Covenant of Grace C. Yes I understand that it was the riches of God's Grace to make a
not know them perhaps you would admire them above most of your own N. C. Then I should conclude they had the Gift of Prayer but suppress it C. So they have but it is both in you and us onely a Natural gift or acquir'd by Exercise and Practise and Imitation N. C. Now you speak prophanely C. I speak the sense of the soberest of your own Party as I verily believe who would say the same if they durst but deal plainly with you And as simple as I am I dare undertake to justifie the truth of what I say against any of them if they have the face to contradict it N. C. I see you leave the Spirit of God nothing to do in our Prayers C. Would you would see how you forget your self Did I not tell you what the Spirit of Prayer was how that God bestows it upon us when he gives us a sense of himself and of our needs and stirs up in us holy desires and passionate longings after his Righteousness which we should express in such words as are becoming that Majesty with whom we have to do And this is the reason that we take care to chuse our words and not leave them to extemporary invention especially in the publick Service of God N. C. Do you think they will ever want Words whose hearts are full of Desires or can great Affections ever fail to furnish us with plenty of Language C. Yes that they may For all experience tells us that very great and high Affections are too big for Words and make a man at a stand for want of Expressions which no man sure will think a seemly thing in a publick Congregation And the passions of Admiration and Reverence of God restrain a mans forwardness of speaking to him and make him like a few words best which he is not then in a fit case to invent Aâ— for lesser Affections and superficial Heats I grant they seldom let a man want words if he have tolerable Parts and make him speak more readily than he would do at another time yet they are not able ever to furnish him with those that are fit proper and decent Which methinks should make you not quarrel with a sober form of words at least in our publick Devotions N. C. Would you could perswade me that a Form of words is lawful to be used it would go a great way to perswade me to come to your Church C. Strange that you should be so inapprehensive It is so lawful to use a Form of words that I have shewn you it is in a sort necessary that is we can have no security that the Service of God will always be performed well without one N.C. I confess I do not yet apprehend you C. Observe then I say the best of men though their hearts be full of good desires may from some cause or other want such words as are fit and proper to express their meaning In this case they must hack in an unseemly manner or make a stop or use such words as are too rude and slovenly or speak broken and imperfect language or at the best such as is too hard and obscure and unintelligible by the Vulgar None of which things are to be permitted in the publick Worship which ought to be performed with the greatest solemnity and gravity And therefore to prevent that Undecency and secure the Service of God from all that is unhandsome you must consent to a prescribed Form of words wherein men shall address their humble and hearty Desires to him For though some men at some times may pray well enough yet other men and the same men at other times may be very confused and full of Tautologies and it 's well if they endeavour not to supply these defects with rude Clamours brutish Noises and a deal of the Holy Scriptures wofully misapplied Beside how can you persuade any strangers to be of our Church or to hold any Communion with us if they do not know how we worship God And how should they know that unless you can produce something which by a general consent is own'd for his Service This no doubt is one reason why all Churches in the world have had their publick Forms of Prayer that they may let every body know how God is served by them and why the best men in Reformed Churches have wished those happy days might come of amity and friendship that they might by a Common Counsel and Consent form a certain Liturgy which might be as a Symbol and Bond of Concord among them all And truly I cannot advise how your Ministers can justifie themselves in separating now from all the Reformed Churches as well as ours with whom they covenanted to maintain an Uniformity not onely in Doctrine and Discipline but Worship also To me they seem to live in an open breach of one branch of that Covenant of which they are so tender For they do not endeavour in their place and calling to reform according to the example of those Churches N. C. What should they reform now they have no power C. Themselves and their Congregations which they take the boldness to gather who ought to serve God according to the Covenant after the example of the best Reformed Churches all of which have an Order and Form of Prayer and never imagin'd that those written Forms did bind up and stint the Spirit This is a peculiar phansie of your own who have no Form at all in any of your Conventicles or Meetings though it is in the power of your Ministers to have one as well as to hold such Meetings and though they be bound by their League and Covenant to do their endeavor to imitate those that have Nay I much question whether they use the Lord's Prayer They that do I believe have the least company such is the prejudice which they contrary to their Covenant have sowen in peoples minds against Forms of Prayer even that of the Lord's Which thing considered it makes me astonish'd at your impudence in pretending such niceness of Conscience and fear to break your Covenant when you break it every time you meet together without some Form of Divine Service N. C. They onely covenanted to reform this Church of England according to the example of the best Reformed Churches which they cannot do C. Onely do you say Is that a less thing then to reform a particular Congregation Methinks they should think themselves obliged to do what they can when they cannot do what they would and to do that in a part which they cannot do in the whole that is bring in some Form of Prayer into your Churches for so no doubt you esteem them N. C. I do not think they can if they would C. Why N.C. Because most of us think Forms unlawfull C. That 's their fault who either taught you to believe so heretofore or do not instruct you now to believe otherwise Though it were a very casie thing for them to do
a little after p. 482. As sure as the Morning is after the Night so sure will God return His going forth is prepared as the Morning as certain he will return as the Morning doth This I must needs say was kindly said and like a Poet who can invent what he pleases and leave out what makes not for his turn N.C. Methinks you invent what you please And since you are so good at it I pray let me know what invention you have to excuse your Playes which have so much Obscenity in them C. It 's more than I know if they have any at all And should there be any assure your self the Ears of those whom we esteem Godly are no less chast than yours and would not endure it But did you ever hear that any of our Ministers spoke things so nearly approaching to immodesty as W. B. doth N. C. I shall stop my ears if you offer to rake into such matters C. I did not intend it were you never so willing to hear it I would only have you know that if I should present you with all the filthy Expressions and Allusions that I have met withal in such Books as his I should make you repent that ever you led me to this Discourse N.C. I cannot conceive that they should fall into such Errors since they are the strictest sort of men as you very well know and love to preach very plainly C. Now I understand what you mean by plain preaching which you so much talk of viz. to use rude and broad expressions As when W. B. saith a little Estate is but a Mess of Pottage and a great Estate a great Bowl of Pottage Have I not hit your meaning N.C. No. C. Then it is very hard to know what it is And indeed the Assembly of Divines when they direct men how to perform their Ministry and among other things tell them they must preach plainly do not speak plainly themselves in their Directory i. e. not so as to be understood For these are their words pag. 17. The Servant of Christ is to perform his whole Ministry c. Plainly that the meanest may understand delivering the Truth not in the enticing words of man's wisdom but in Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power lest the Cross of Christ should be made of none effect Now since you acknowledge they cannot prophesy nor speak with Tongues nor Demonstrate their Doctrine by Miracles as the Apostles did I would gladly know what they mean by the Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power I am apt to think it would puzzle a new Assembly to tell us in plain words what they intended by that Phrase N.C. If you were taught of God as they are you would easily know C. We are all taught of God by the Apostles who have revealed his Mind to us and that in a Divine manner And therefore by pretending you are taught of God more than we when you cannot prove it you only shew that you are taught to Cant in Scripture-phrase Pray let 's see if you understand any better another Direction of theirs which is to preach painfully not doing the work of the Lord negligently Whom do you account a painful Preacher N. C. One that takes a great deal of pains C. It is just as plain as it was before and you give me a very good demonstration how well you are bred to a clear and plain understanding of things But that which you mean I believe is one who preaches often N.C. Yes C. That 's the way to do the work of the Lord negligently as common experience hath taught us N. C. Not if they take pains to consider what they say C. But you would see them so often in the Pulpit that you do not allow them time for that and other Ministerial Duties Hence it is that upon all occasions they apply the Holy Scriptures very impertinently and interpret them negligently and alledge that for a Proof which is nothing to the purpose nay quite contrary to that which they maintain Witness W. B. who from that place in Hosea 6.3 his going forth is prepared as the Morning would have his people believe that God will as certainly return to them as the morning is after night Whereas that is only spoken to the Ten Tribes and the Prophet doth not give them an absolute assurance that they shall return to their own Land but only invites them to Repentance and on that condition promises God in a little time will revive them Nay he requires not only that they should begin to know God whom they had forsaken but that they should continue and persevere to know him and then saith he his going forth is prepared as the Morning i. e. he was ready to comfort them as the Morning-light doth those that wait for it and would come upon them as the Rain which quickens and calls back the Corn to life which otherwise would have lain dead in the Earth It is true W. B. saith a little before if you desire God should return to you return you to him as if there were some condition in the business But this is only his usual way of saying and unsaying of granting promises to be Conditional which he would have his people believe shall be performed absolutely And indeed so much he had told them before this that they might not be discomforted though they did not return to God Friends saith he pag. 478. there is a time when God will deliver his people for his Names sake and with a notwithstanding i. e. notwithstanding all their Sins and notwithstanding all his Displeasures as he explains himself Now if you would know when that time is he tells us When a people suffer for God's Name 's sake then God will deliver for his Name 's sake then God will deliver with a notwithstanding And this he would have them believe is their present state and condition How is it with you now they are his words you are in a suffering day but are not all your sufferings for the Name of Christ Be of good comfort then though God may be departed and your City destroyed yet he is not quite gone but will return again that is notwithstanding all their Sins he would not leave them Do you not see how confident he is This it is for men to fansy themselves at the Fathers knee and to be in his arms and held in his Embraces held in his Smiles as he speaks p. 469. They say even what they please when they are full of this conceit and think it is the Oracles of God They tell you their own mind and believe it is the mind of the Lord. And when they tell it you in such delicate Expressions as these or such rude and gross ones as those before mentioned you call it plain Preaching and powerful Preaching N.C. The Assembly told you if you would have observ'd what plain Preaching is in that very place which you quoted where they require
Ministers to forbear unprofitable use of unknown Tongues strange Phrases Cadences of Sounds and Words and to cite Sentences out of Writers sparingly though never so Elegant C. By your favour this is only one part of that which they call plain preaching For first they say a Minister must preach in the Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power and then it follows Abstaining also from an unprofitable use c. So that still we are to seek what that Preaching with Power means And as for this sort of plain preaching now mention'd either your Ministers do not understand it or do not mind it For who hath more strange Phrases than W. B. Or to pass by him who it's like regards not the Directory who is there that stuffs his Sermons with more Shreds of Authors and more affects little Sayings and Cadences of Sounds and Words than T. W. As for his Power in preaching I shewed you before how unable it is to Rouze and Shake an Hypocrite and bring him to Repentance For he studies rather to please him with the enticing words of mans Wisdom though after a poor fashion than to make a plain Representation of his Wretched State and Condition to him If many of those whom you despise had had the handling of him they would have turn'd his inside outward and set it before his eyes They would have ript his very Heart and discovered his Entralls that he might have beheld how he stands divided between God and the World He should have seen how many secret Sins he suffers to lurk in his Breast Nay in what a detestable manner he reserves a kindness for many of the vilest Sins such as are Covetousness Oppression Hard dealing Unmercifulness Malice Revenge Bitterness Wrath Implacableness and such like which are the Sins of too many Religious people that is of Hypocrites that are not intire and uniform in their Religion For an Hypocrite is not a meer Player in Religion as T. W. fansies but one that concerns himself with a mighty Zeal for some good things and perhaps would rather die than not do them but hath no Affection for the rest of Christs Commands He doth not only put on a Garb of piety to deceive others but there are a number of men that love some part of piety and by that means deceive their own Souls And let you and I my good Neighbour look to it that we be not of that number N. C. Our Ministers you may well think give us such Cautions For you must acknowledge as I intimated before but you would pass it by that they are the strictest people in the World and teach us so to be C. So were the Pharisees For that Sect was more curious and exact in many things than any of the rest But these two things among many others you shall observe of them First that they were very desirous of the peoples Favour and Esteem the desire of pleasing whom I doubt sometimes betrays your Preachers into such rude and unhandsome speeches as I have heard and seen from them And secondly the best of them as appears in S. Paul were carried with a blind preposterous Zeal even against the Truth of Christ which arose from their high Esteem of themselves and a Confidence they were very dear to God above all others I wish the like Heat and Conceit of your infallible spirit do not now make you violently oppose many things which have Christs Stamp upon them And then you had best examine whether you are not strict people just as they are plain Preachers N.C. Your meaning C. I mean not strict For as to me those are very obscure Speakers and hard to be understood whom you call plain So it is possible those may take too much Liberty especially in their Tongues whom you call strict N.C. O Sir there are no people so serious as they C. If you mean that they look solemnly and will not laugh nor be merry it is like it's true of some of them But whether this be the effect of their Religion or their Natural Temper it is no great matter for it doth not much commend them Otherwise if you mean that they long consider things and come not to a Resolution till it be late that they ponder all their words and actions and weigh well what they are going about I doubt you will find but few of these serious persons For to me the Zeal of most of you seems to make you heady and rash I have observed for instance that they are apt presently to condemn those that are merry or at least to shake their Heads and express their fears as if they were too vain and light-Spirited This Censure hath a shew of Seriousness but in truth proceeds from a want of it But if you mean that they are in good earnest in their Religion So are many of the Nuns and Friars and other devout people among the Papists who seriously say their Ave Maries and Pater Nosters and would not omit them for all the World And so were the Pharisees a very serious people especially upon a Sabbath and would not neglect their Devotions in which they were earnest and long for any good And assure your self a man may be serious in Religion and yet be an Hypocrite That is he may in good earnest do many Duties and love to Pray and Hear and Repeat Sermons and the like And all the while he may in as good earnest love the World very much and to say no more love the praise of men and Desire to be better thought of than his Neighbours In short he may love Money and Esteem being Covetous and Censorious as the Pharisees were N.C. You love to compare us with the Pharisees Were they such a tender-conscienc'd people C. Yes indeed were they in many things They would rather dy than break the Sabbath They made a great Scruple of walking above so many Paces upon that day and had infinite Ceremonies and Superstitions about its Observation of which they were so tender that they could not endure any body else should break them The like Tenderness they had about Idolatry and many other things But yet they made no bones as we say of a Widdow's house which they could devour at one bit as soon as the Sabbath was done They were horribly Covetous and desirous of Riches They made no Conscience of Oppression and Extortion They were monstrously Uncharitable and Proud They thought themselves the wisest and the best men in the world and despised all others as men that knew not what Religion meant And lest you should think they wanted Zeal to increase their party which they called Love to pure Religion they compassed Sea and Land as Christ tells you to make a Proselyte who when he was gain'd became twofold more the Child of Hell than themselves Which thing I would have you observe because it shews us that men may be converted from gross Prophaneness to Sins of a more Spiritual and