Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n
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A19242
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The abatement of popish braggs, pretending Scripture to be theirs. Retorted by the hand of Alexander Cooke
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Cooke, Alexander, 1564-1632.
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1625
(1625)
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STC 5658; ESTC S108620
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41,426
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69
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Bishops By expresse Scripture they bee made Bishops who haue children 1 Tim. 3 4. Yet your Clemens the eighth would admit none to be Bishops who had children though some of his predecessors did otherwise yet his practise was according to your learning For in your Canon Law Pope Pelagius giuing one direction what manner of man hee should chuse for a Bishop bids him looke vnto it Nec vxorem habeat nec filios Hee neither haue wife nor children Whereof some of you giue this reason Quia filius est Argumentum ambulans super terram de incontinentia patris Because children are aprant ambling Arguments of the Incontinencie of their fathers By expresse Scripture they are condemned who forbid marriage 1 Tim. 4. 3. Yet yee doe so for yee will not suffer Priests to marry Pa. They who forbid marriage as vnlawfull such as the Manichees are condemned but not we who only forbid some sorts of men to marry Prot. The Manicheis did not forbid all men to marry but onely their Elect such as your Priests and Monkes And therefore if the Manicheis bee hereby condemned why not yee also In the Scriptures wee read expresly That if any who beleeueth not call a Christian to a feast the Christian should cate of whatsoeuer is set before him asking no question for conscience sake 1 Corinth 10. 27. Yet if one of you Papists bee bidden to a feast by a Protestant of whom you make no more esteeme then of one who beleeueth not you will not eate of whatsoeuer is set before you By expresse Scripture they are condemned who command men to abstaine from meats Yet so doe you Papists Qui gustauit ouum trahitur in carcerem cogitur que de haeresi causam dicere qui totam diem Dominicam vacat temulentiae scortis aleae audit bellus home He who eates an egge on a fasting day is committed to prison and suspected for an Hereticke Hee who sits at the Ale-house all the Lords day and giues himselfe to whoring and dicing is counted a good man and a true In the Scripture wee read expresly That the Lord laid vpon him viz Christ the iniquitie of vs all and that it was Christ who suffered for our sinnes and bare them in his body on the tree so that by his stripes we are healed Yet you teach That satisfaciendo patimur pro peccatis By satisfactory works we must suffer for our sinnes We as well as Hee Not hee only In the Scripture we read expresly That our Sauiour Christ did but offer himselfe once And yet you say That in precise manner hee offered himselfe twice Once at his last Supper and againe vpon the Crosse Pa. Some of vs say so indeed But there was a hot contention about it in the Councell at Trent a good sort maintaining resolutely That he did not offer himselfe at the last Supper Of which number that famous Mussus was one who was a Preacher at twelue yeeres old with whom all Italy was in admiration But say on In the Scripture wee read expresly That our Sauiour was not to offer himselfe often Yet you teach That he offered himselfe daily In the Scripture wee read expresly That if Christ be often offered hee must often suffer But you deny that hee suffers often though you grant he is often offered In the Scripture we read expresly That without shedding of blood there is no remission of sins Yet you teach That your Masse is a propitiatorie sacrifice for sin though you acknowledge it an vnbloody sacrifice In the Scripture it is expresly written That Marriage is honourable among all And yet you say Marriage of Priests is the worst sort of incontinency In the Scripture we read expresly That in many things wee sinne all Yet you say He who is iustified Legem omnino implet Keepes the Law wholly In the Scripture we read expresly That they are blessed who die in the Lord hereafter for they rest from their labours Yet you teach That many of those that die in the Lord goe to Purgatory where their labour is greater then they euer vnderwent in this world To be briefe In the Scripture we read expresly That Christ is the Head and Spouse of the Church Yet you tell vs The Pope is Head and Spouse of the Church In the Scripture wee read expresly That it is the blood of Christ which clenseth vs from all sin and yet you tell vs That Holy-water Holy-bread Bishops blessing and such like will clense vs from many sinnes In the Scriptures we read expresly of two places appointed for Soules after this life Heauen and Hell And yet you tell vs there are foure places Heauen Hell Purgatory and Limbus puerorum yea and perhaps a fift differing from all these By all which doe not you see how plaine and how plentifull the Scriptures are which make for vs and against you in matters controuersed Doe not you see his falshood who said The Catholikes follow the Bible but the Protestants force the Bible to follow them Pa. I see you huddle vp one Scripture in the neck of another readily But it hath beene the propertie of all Heretickes to make no bones of Scripture but prodigally to spend them and to lauish them out to proue thereby their heresies were they neuer so fantasticall Vincentius Lyrinensis witnesseth That Heretickes flie through euery volume of the heauenly Law and that they dye and colour almost euerie Page in their Bookes with sentences of the Old and New Testament Pro. And do not you so too I pray Are there not many Pages in many Books of yours which are died coloured with sentences of the Old and New Testament Is not your Canisius Catechisme as full of Texts of the Old and New Testament as any Heretickes Is not your Summarie of Controuersies made by W. C. and published A. 1623. and your Gagge of the New Gospel published â— 1622. dyed with sentences out of Scripture Pa. Yes but Heretickes insist vpon Scriptures only as S. Austine witnesseth whereas our Bookes are full of other testimonies out of Fathers and Councells Prot. Yea but it is not true that Hereticks insisted vpon Scripture only for the most notorious Hereticks that euer were haue beene as confident that the Fathers were on their side as you are confident they are on your side The most notorious Hereticks haue insisted much vpon the Fathers The Samosatenians who denied the Godhead of Christ bragd Maiores omnes etiam ipsos Apostolos ea sensisse ac docuisse quae ipsi nunc dicunt seruatamque esse predicationis veritatem vsque ad tempora Victoris qui 13. Ã Petro Romanorum Episcopus fuit All their predecessours euen the Apostles themselues thought as they thought and that the truth of their doctrine continued till Victors time who was the
let me intreate this of you that you will forbeare to censure either our bookes or our persons vpon your Priests bare information For their words are no Gospel their tongues no slaunder And that you would remember that of g Tertullian Quid iniquius quà m vt oderint homines quod ignorant etiamsi res mereatur odium Tuncenim meretur cum cognoscitur an mereatur Vacante auteÌ„ meriti notitia vnde odij iustitia defenditur quae non deeventu sed de conscientia probanda est with which I end wishing to you all as to my selfe a comfortable life and blessed death Leeds in Yorkshire May 20. 1625. ALEXANDER COOKE A DIALOGVE BETWIXT A PROTESTANT AND A PAPIST Wherein is manifested the Papists Brag that Scripture maketh for them Protestant OH well met once againe where haue you bin that I neuer saw you since wee talked about Pope Ioane Are you the same man for Religion that you was then Papist Yea truely or rather more resolute and confident Prot. What new arguments haue you lighted on to increase your resolution and confidence for my part I am euery day further out of loue with your Religion then other Pa. The Arguments which haue doubled my resolution and confidence are diuers wherof the first is this That I find sentence giuen for vs Catholikes against you Protestants in all the Tribunals of Gods Church I finde that all the Writings of the Saints in Heauen professe for vs. Prot. What the Writings of the Prophets and of the Apostles and of the Fathers in the Primitiue Church and of the Councels Doe you finde that all professe for you Pa. Yea all of them Quaecunque vel opera vel fragmenta supersunt eorum qui disiunctissimis terris Euangelium seuerunt omnes nobis vnam fidem exhibent quam hodie Catholici profitemur There is not a booke nor a piece of a booke extant written by the first Preachers of the Gospel whensoeuer or how far so euer they liued one from another but it giues witnesse to the Catholike Faith which wee professe at this day Prot. Can you make proofe thereof vnto mee and I will bee of your Religion Pa. That I can and I will first begin with Scriptures for I am of Doctor Saunders opinion That there are most plaine Scriptures in all points for the Catholike Faith and none at all against the same And of Doctor Bristoes mind whose words these are Most certaine it is that from the beginning of Genesis to the end of the Apocalips there is no Text that makes for you nor against vs but all for vs. Prot. Say you so Verily and if the Scriptures be for you I will be with you for I like well of Saint Basils motion to one with whom hee had a controuersie Stemus arbitratu inspiratae à Deo Scriptura apud quos inueniuntur dogmata diuinis oraculis consona illis omnino veritas adiudicetur sententiae Let vs stand to the arbiterment of holy Scripture and let them be thought to haue the truth on their side whose opinions are found to be agreeable to Scriptures But let mee tell you a word or two by the way and they are these viz. That you are not more thorowly perswaded of the truth of your two Doctors speeches then I am of a Gentlemuns speech of our Religion who being importuned by an idle Questionist of your side to tell where our Religion was before Luthers time returned him this answere That our Religion was alwaies in the Bible where your Religion neuer was In which perswasion I am the more confirmed by this That there are of your selues no fooles I wisse who write that some among you Poene peceatum putant Scripturas legere ne sic siant haeretici Doe thinke it almost a sinne to read the Scriptures least by reading of them they should proue hereticks For if your Religion were in the Bible and that in so plaine manner as you brag why should any of you bee so afraid of opening a Bible why did one of your Iesuits confesse that Lectis Bebliotuâ—t cicius haereticum Lutheranum quam Catholicum Romanum facit The reading of the Bible makes rather Hereticall Lutherans then Romau Catholikes Why suffer you this marginal Note Nunc exâ—â—udit haresies to be set ouer these words of Chrysostaâ—â— â—gâ—oratio scripturarum peperit haereses Pa. I meane not to take vpon mee the iustifying of euery mans priuate conceits or speeches but what I my selfe haue said all that shall bee made good I will proue vnto you the troth of our Religion by the Bible Prot. Now indeede I am afraid you are bewitched with that damnable opinion which of later yeeres hath runne currantly among you viz. Sunt scriptura Vâ—lut nasus cereus qui se her sum illorsum in quam volueris partem trahi retrahi fingique facile permittit tanquam plumbea quadam Lesbiâ—â—disicationis regula quam no◠〈◊〉 difficile accommodare ad quiduis volueris The Scriptures are like a nose of waxe which may bee writhen this way or that way backward or forward as a manwould would haue it And with that of Quintinus the Parisian Doctor commended by Pamelius who writes thus Tam facile est imâ— facilius est adres profanas impias prâ—bandas detorquere sanctam scripturam quam facile est pedibus ac semi-pedibus aut penthememeribus Virgilianis Epithalmia sen quiduis aliud in vnum congerere It is as casie yea it is more easie to wrest the Scripture to the prouing of any villany or impiety then to make a Loue Song by snatching here a patch and there a patch of a Verse out of Virgil. And that in confidence hereof you hope to make a shew of somewhat out of the Bible for the prouing of your Religion otherwise I know not what should moue you to beginne with Scripture You haue forgotten I beleeue that Doctor Bristow describing the meanes to make plaine demonstration that Heretikes haue no euidence but you all aduiseth his Agents to labour still to get the Heretickes out of their weake and false Castle of holy Scripture into the plaint fields of Councels and Fathers For all his bragging of the Scriptures hee put but a little trust in them hee was loth to haue them in the foreward Pa. But I am content they match in the foreward if you will beleeue me Prot. Why but I pray you then place the best formost And if we fall into dispute with Saint Peters Supremacie trouble mee not with such Texts as some of your Rabbies alledge for it Tell me not that our Sauiour Christ said vnto S. Peter onely Duc in altum Launch into the deepe Noâ— potuisti vna hora vigilare mecum Couldst thou not watch one houre with mee Sequere me Follow me Neither tell mee in way of prouing the same That S. Peter cut off Malous care And if from that wee fall