vnconsecrated wyne in the chalyce and vnconsecrated breade liynge vpon the chalice Now haue I proued by the very wordes of the messe that the ende of the messe is to purchase remission by offeryng of breade wyne to deserue euerlastynge lyfe by receyuynge and offeryng of Christes body to make fayre wether rayne to heale all sycknesses to bringe soules frō hel and to delyuer them from tormentes to honour sayntes and to make a memoriall of sayntes deathes and natiuites of the receyuyng of Christes body and bloud and otherwhyles to make the same of the offerynge of breade and wyne These are the operations intentes and endes of the messe and the same are not the endes and operations of the supper of the Lorde for the ende of christis supper is to remēber christes death to gyue thākes for our redēptiō and to remēbre that we all are mēbres of one body and ought therfore one to loue an other Therfor the endes of the messe the operations of the same and the ende and intent of Christes supper are diuerse and differ much one frō another whereupon it foloweth that the messe and Chrystes supper doo dyffer and ar not al one Then can ye not say that the messe was ordeyned of God in the xxvi of Mathew and that the messe is the supper of the lorde decked semely appoynted with decēt apparell for such a mistery Palemon Yf ye haue no other places of scrypture to proue hat the messe was ordeyned of god thē ye haue hyther to brought furthe she muste be dryuē out of Christes church as a mere inuētiō of mā Therfor yf ye haue any mo places bryng them furth Philargy The messe is good all goodnes is of god as S. Iames sayeth euery good gyft and euery perfect gyft is from aboue descendynge from the father of lyght ergo the messe is of god Moreouer Christ sayeth in the .xiiii. of Iohn That cōforter which is the holy ghost whom the father shal send in my name he shall teach you all thinges what soeuer I shall speake vnto you Loo here Christe promyseth that the holy Ghost shal teach the Apostles and the church all thynges that he shall speake after hys Ascension Then dyd Christe doubtles tell the Churche many thynges after hys Ascensyon whyche the holy Ghoste taught a greate whyle after and emonge those thynges that were onely taught after the ascention was the messe Also Iohn xvi Chap Christe sayeth I haue many thynges to say vnto you whych ye cā not beare now but when he shall come whych is the spirite of truthe he shall lede you into all truth Beholde here how that Christe dyfferred to shew the Apostles certayne verites tyll that he was ascēded vp into heauen They was there some truthes tolde to the churche after that Christe was ascended which was not tolde of Christe before hys ascencion of and thē is no mentiō made in the .iiii. Euangelistes And surely as I haue sayde the messe is one of them whyche was not iaught before the ascention but aftet it as our mother the holy churche beleueth whose doctrine I wyll rather folowe then all the Lutherans in Germany though therwer CCCCC tymes as many mo then now are Magis enim credendū est Marie veracique iudeorum turbae fallaci Saye not nowe but that ye haue now scripture alleged you to proue that the messe is of God Knouuleg Ye make a reasō and brynge furthe scripture to proue that the Messe is of God But howe strong your reason is and how rightly ye haue alleged the scrypture I shall shortly declare Where as ye reasō the messe is good al goodnes is of God ergo the messe is of God ye commyt a fallacy or a deceytful dryft of sophistry whych is called of the Logiciās which hate such sophisticall deceytes Petitio principii that is when a mā wyl proue a thynge to be true by the same thinge or wyth an other that is as doubtfull as that is which is called into questiō The chefe matter that we go aboute in thys accusation is too proue that the messe is vngodly full of blasphemy and therfore ought to be put out of the church And yet ye very wyttely allege thys for a prynciple and out of al controuersy that the messe is good and cōclude that therfore it is of God No no syr ye cā not bleare my eyes so Proue ye fyrst that the messe is good and then shal I graunt you your conclusiō that it is of God To the place whych ye allege out of the .xiiii. of Iohn wherwith ye would proue that Christ taught the Apostles the church certayn doctrine that he taught not before his ascentiō wherof ye saye that the messe is one I answere that ye allege the scrypture false for it is not in the text as yon allege it he shall teache you what soeuer I shall saye vnto you but what soeuer I haue said vnto you I take to witnes both Erasmus translation the Greke text which is thus Ekinosymas didaxi panta kai ypomnesi ymas panta osa eipon ymin that is to say he shall teache you all thynges put you in remembraūce of al thynges whatsoeuer I haue sayd vnto you And here may all mē se how crafte ye and vnfaythfully ye cite the scrypture allegynge one tence for an other and leauynge out the pryncipall part of the sentence As touchynge the place whiche ye allege oute of the .xvi. of Iohn in these wordes I haue many hinges to say vnto you but ye cā not beare thē now But whē he shall come which is the spriet of truth he shal lede you into all truth I answer that ye cā not proue by this place that the holy gost taught the church any doctrine which the Apostles Euangelistes haue not left behinde thē en theyr wrytinges Yf ye say that they could not abide diuers thinges before Christes ascentiō I say that they could abyde the same after hys ascentiō Yf ye would apply in this sētēce this word you only vnto the church after the apostles tyme not to the apostles ye do the apostles playn wrōg for Christ sayd these wordes vnto thē Thē what can ye gather of this place Christ promised the apostles that the holy ghost should lead thē into all truth dyd he so or no yf he performed his promise the knew the apostles all truth no parte of the truth was vnknowē vnto thē The apostles also was eyther vnfaithfull disobediēt seruaūtes vnto christ or thei were faithfull obedient Yf they were faithful obediēt thei kept thes his cōmādemētes Speake that in the lyghte whyche I spake in darkenes and speake ye that openly that ye haue hearde pryuely But Christe taught by the holy ghost the Apostles all truthe then were they eyther disobedient seruauntes or elles they taughte in theyr wryttynges all truth Yf they taught al truth in theyr wryttinges yet
taught not the messe ther in it foloweth that it is no partt of the trueth so not of god Because that ye thynke that Christ taught the churche some holsome doctrine that he taught not the Apostles I praye you whether shewed god the father his son Christ al truth and all doctrine necessary for a ChristeÌ„ man to knowe or no yf he dyd then the Apostles learned of Christe all truthe and euery necessary doctrine for a christen man For Christ sayeth Iohn xv I haue shewed you al thynges whyche I haue hearde of my father Yf that Christ hath not taught them al thynges necessary for a Christi man to know then were they vnperfit Christen men and in an euell case Yf Christ haue taught theÌ„ all truthe and they woulde not teache vs that agayn in theyr Epistles and Gosples they were both vnkind vnto vs disobedient persones to Christ whych coÌ„maunded them to teache vs all such thinges as he taught theÌ„ before but they were both kynde vnto vs and obedient vnto theyr mayster Christe Therefore they taughte in theyr wryttynges that â—s in the Epistles and Gospels al holsom doctrine and necessary for a Christen man to know Therfore the .ii. places which ye haue alleged out of Iohn make nothyng for the messe and suche other vnwrytten vanytes but declare the weakenes and imperfytnes of the Apostles whych wyth out the helpe of the holy ghost could neyther remeÌ„bre nor vnderstande after Christes resurrection such thinges as he had taught them before his passion But for a further tryall of the matter put the case that christ had taught the church after the apostles deathes certayn holsuÌ„ doctrines whyche he had not taught the apostles in theyr tyme which thynge no christen maÌ„ wyl graunt yet it foloweth not that the messe should be that holsom necessary doctrine for it is coÌ„trary vnto the nature of God in whoÌ„ falleth no vnconstancy to teach a coÌ„trary doctrine after his ascension vnto that which he taught before his passioÌ„ But the messe is clene coÌ„trary vnto the doctrine which he taught before his passioÌ„ and specially vnto thys Nemo uenit ad patrem nisi per me NomaÌ„ commeth vnto the father but throw me therfore Christ neuer taught the messe neyther before his asceÌ„sioÌ„ nor after And where as ye allege that the church beleueth that the holy ghost reueled vnto the holy fathers the messe after the apostles time what churche meane ye of the Popes churche or of Christes true church Yf ye meane of the Popes church we wote howe muche credence oughte to be gyuen vnto the Popes lemman Yf ye meane of Christes true churche when ye saye that the true churche of Christe beleueth that the holy ghoste reueled the messe vnto the fathers and not to the Apostles eyther ye take violently away the Apostles from Christes true churche or elles lye shamfully in saiynge that Christes churche beleueth a thynge when as the pryncipall membres of Christes churche neyther doo nor dyd at any time beleue it Now haue I sufficiently proued that al that ye could hytherto bryng furth could not proue that the messe had any fouÌ„datioÌ„ or ground of goddes word Nowe my lord iudge I reporte me vnto you whether the places which this maÌ„ hath rehersed be sufficieÌ„t or no to proue that the messe is of god Palemon your places alleged out of Iohn make as much for the messe as thei do for the popes supremecy pilgrimage pardons purgatory any other such thing wherof is no mentioÌ„ made in holy scriptur Therfore ye must ether briÌ„g furth someother scripture for your purpose or els grauÌ„t that the messe is not of God Porphiry We are not so sklenderly prouided but that we haue yet both scripture also reason wherewyth we shall be able to proue that the messe is of God Fyrste vnto you masters whyche accuse the messe I axe of you whether almyghty God requyreth in thys coÌ„maundemeÌ„t honor thy father and mother as well obedience of subiectes vnto magistrates and ruelers as he requyreth obedience of chyldren to theyr fathers and mothers knoweleg yes al a lyke Porphyry Then ar subiectes as wel bouÌ„de to obey the rulers commaundemeÌ„tes as chyldren are bounde too obey theyr fathers and mothers commauÌ„dementes knouueleg That do I graunt also Porphyry But the rulers haue coÌ„mauÌ„ded all vs that be theyr subiectes to beleue that the Messe is of God and therfore to come vnto it therfore all meÌ„ are bounde in payne of dampnatioÌ„ to beleue that the messe is goddes ordynaunce and to come to it But least ye shoulde doubte that any magistrate hath commaunded the messe to be takeÌ„ as the ordinaunce of God ye haue sene the daye youre selfe wyth in these .viii. yeres that he that woulde haue spokeÌ„ agaynst the blessed messe should haue ben burned as a traytor to god bafelon to the kyng whych they would not haue done yf that they would not haueÌ„ had the messe to be taken for the very ordinauÌ„ce of God And I am sure that there are in Englande many inferior magistrates whyche are of that same mynde styll and commaunde at thys houre their inferiours to come to messe and commaunde them to beleue that it is of God How many Bishoppes and iustices of Peace are ther now in Englande whyche are not suche as I haue rehersed Therfore yf we be bounde to obey our polytike fathers we muste beleue that the messe is of god knouulege Wythin these .xx. yeres there haue ben some magistrates whyche haue commaunded theyr subyectes in peyne of death to beleue that the bishop of rome was heede of the churche Is not thys the coÌ„maundemeÌ„t euen now of the Emperour also of the Frenche kynge coÌ„maunde not these .ii. magistrates in payne of burning all meÌ„ to beleue that pilgrimag is good worshyppiÌ„g of images is an godly moÌ„kery is holy kinde of lyfe Now I pray you ar al these .ii. magistrates subiectes bouÌ„de in payne of dampnatioÌ„ to beleue that the bishop of Rome is heed of the churche are they bouÌ„d to beleue the pilgrimage worshpping of images ar good gudli ar thei bouÌ„de to beleue the moÌ„kery is a kinde of lyfe the pleaseth god are these subiectes bound to beleue any more theÌ„ is coÌ„teyned in the crede in the expressed word of god answer I pray you ar al the Emperours subiectes the FreÌ„che kinges subiectes bouÌ„de to beleue that the pope is the heed of the church that pardones pilgrimage moÌ„kery be of god Phil. They ar not bouÌ„de to beleue that the pope is hed of the church neither the pilgrimag is of god Kno. TheÌ„ ar not al subiectes by the vertue of the fyrst coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t bouÌ„de to beleue what soeuer the rulers coÌ„mauÌ„de theÌ„ to beleue except it that they coÌ„maunde be coÌ„teyned in the expressed word of god But ther is no meÌ„tioÌ„ made in the scripture of the messe therfore though the magistrate should coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„ to beleue that the messe
A new Dialogue VVHEREIN IS CONTEYned the examination of the Messe and of that kynde of Preisthode whych is ordeined to say messe and to offer vp for remyssyon of synne the bodye and bloude of Christe agayne Beleue not euery spirite but trye the spirites whether they be of God or no for many false prophetes are gone into the worlde The names of the speakers in thys Dialogue Mastres Missa Master Knowlege Master Fremouthe Master iustice of Peace Peter preco the â—ry Palemon the Iudge Doctor Prophyri Syr Phillyp Philargyry VVYLLYAM TVRNER VNTO THE READER ALTHOVGHE IT BE not beloÌ„gyng vnto my professyoÌ„ to dispute of maters of diuinite whyche am a Phisitian yet extreme necessite requiriÌ„g I am coÌ„pelled to do in thys kynde of war as coblers shomakers masons carpeÌ„ters al other meÌ„ of handy occupations are compelled to doo when theyr cytie is beseged to take wepens in theyr handes and become warriers whych haue had lytle or no experieÌ„ce of war before when as theyr cytie is beseged Whych yf that when a cyty is beseged euery maÌ„ that is a faythfull citizen oughte to do the beste that he can to defende hys cytye and to ouercuÌ„ the enemies of the same who wyll blame me which am no professor of diuinitie when as the cyty of God whereof I am a sworne Citizen is beseged wyth so great hostes of popyshe warriers yf I play in this tyme of nede the diuine warryer to defeÌ„de the forsayd cyty and endeuore my selfe to ouercome the enemyes of the same The enemies of our city ar they whiche take by violeÌ„ce away the godly and necessarie ordinauÌ„ces of our cyty and would by force thurst into our cyty lawes of theyr awn makiÌ„g coÌ„ttary vnto the lawes of our lawmaker which builded our city dyed for the liberty of the same Suche enemyes ar the Byshop of Rome and all Popyshe Prelates and preistes whyche mangle and mynishe yea rob and many wayes deface the mooste comfortable coÌ„mon seale of our saluation and redemptioÌ„ the holy SacrameÌ„t of Christes body bloude and in the stede of the same set in a mere mannes inuention a certayne Popish playe whych they call the meritorius Messe bearyng vs in hande that that they can doo wyth it as muche as our redemer Christ coulde do with hys most blessed passioÌ„ which thyng I iudge to be greatly to the dyshonour of Christ that is that our most coÌ„fortable coÌ„moÌ„ seal of our lybertie and redemption should be maÌ„gled and robbed and for the moste parte of the hole yere taken from vs and that the worke of a man should be made equall with the worke of our Lorde and lawmaker whych is both God and maÌ„ I could do no lesse but wryte thys booke to defende the blessed ordynaunce of our Lorde and redemer and wrastle a lytle wyth the wycked mannes ordynauÌ„ces to helpe to dryue them out of the churche oure cytie and to restore the ordynaunce of our sauyour into the church agayn I know that many wyll be offended and take it very greuously that I shoulde wryts of thys matter and I loke for none other but some shal cal me knaue and heretyke for my laboure taken in thys matter Some wyll there be also of Sathans syde whyche neuer can be satiate wyth bloud whych wyll desyre to haue my bloude as dyuers in Englande at thys daye yet lyuynge haue done God forgiue them And the same yf that theyr crueltyes were not repressed and holden downe wyth the hyer powers whych ar manteyners of al truth and honesty would not leaue alyue in thys realme one of my iugement the vse ether to wryte or to preach agaynst such maÌ„nes inuencions as at thys tyme I do wryte agaynst but I care not for these horsleches trustynge that he that hath so ofte delyuered me froÌ„ the handes of myne enemies wyll either saue me from them at this tyme also or elles yf it be hys pleasure that I shal lose my lyfe for his names sake I shall be sure to fynde it agayn But yf there be any man that of a conscience had agaynste me and thynke that I holde any false opinions in thys boke or any other booke and woulde haue the amendement of me and not my destruction yf they be learned let them wryte agaynste me and I shal answer them or elles yf I can not recante it that I haue wrytten In the meane season I woulde desyre the vnlearned whyche erre by reason of ignoraunce and not of malyce that they woulde cease from raylynge agaynste me tyll that theyr chefe champions haue confuted my booke and haue perceyued that I wyll not recante Thys would I also requyre of learned meÌ„ yf it coulde be obteyned I answered wythin these seuen yeres a certayne learned man of Englande and confuted as well as I could hys boke but he contrary vnto all honestie and learnyng perceyuynge that he was not able to answere to my booke in euery booke that he wrote afterwardes agaynst other men rayled and scoffed agaynste me by name Should learned meÌ„ play suche partes in a chrysten kingdom I thinke that it were mete that he that is learned opeÌ„ly in wrytiÌ„g or in pulpit speaketh agaiÌ„st any maÌ„ shuld ether be compelled to confute hys opinions that he rayleth agaynst or elles should be coÌ„pelled openly to cry hym mercy whom he hathe sklaundered Yf thys were brought to passe we shold haue fewer raylers in Englande then we haue Therfore haue I sette my name vnto thys boke that yf thou thynke that I haue wrytten herein any thynge agaynst God or hys word thou mayest knowe to whome thou shouldeste wryte Almyghty God graunte to the ignorante knowlege and to them that haue knowledge to lyue thereafter Amen Mastres Missa I Am credible informed by the reporte of my faythful and vnfayned freÌ„des that there ar nowadayes many rash vngodly meÌ„ which vtterly despice me set me at nought saiynge that I am not she that I am takeÌ„ for that I am the Popis doughter and haue dryuen out of the church the supper of oure Lorde and haue set vp my selfe in the stede of it and that I am the greatest blasphemy that euer was vnto Christes death and passion wyth many other spitefull lyes slanders wherwyth they woulde kyll me yf they coulde But ye good catholyke and Christen people knowe well enoughe what I am and from wheÌ„ce I came Ye wote that I came from Christe and hys Apostles and that I am allowed approued wyth mo then an hundreth holy fathers Byshoppes of Rome and I haue bene more then these CCCCC yeres approued by the hole churche And because manye newe fangled fellowes would that I shoulde be remoued oute of the way that Chrystes supper as they call it myghte haue place in the Churche as an holosmmer thyng and more profytable for mannes soule then I am I wyll at thys tyme compelled by necessytie compare my selfe wyth theyr supper and proue
my selfe more worthy of place in Christes churche then it is The Supper that these fellowes speake af euen after theyr awne coÌ„fessyon is but a memoryall of Chrystes death of a gyuyng of thankes for the benefit of mans saluatioÌ„ wherby maÌ„s fayth is strengthened and theyr loue is in creased These are the chefest properties that these new gospellers doo gyue vnto theyr so greatly coÌ„mended supper But harke now what I both do and caÌ„ do I deliuer the sely soules that haue bene long pituossly punished in purgatory froÌ„ theyr paynes and tormentes Where fynde you in al the hole Scrypture that the supper of oure Lorde can doo so muche I can make fayre wether and rayne I can heale all Sycknesses and brynge dampned soules oute of Hell I can purchasse remyssyon of synnes by the offerynge vp agayne of Chrystes body and bloude I can wyth fyue wordes make bothe God and man Whyche thynge seynge that God can not doo can not I do more then God can doo Nowe lette these newe fellowes tell whether the supper of our Lordes can do so much or no. Yet for all this yf nede requyre I saye that I am the supper of our Lord and my great freÌ„des Prophiry my patroÌ„ doctor of the CanoÌ„ law syr Phillip Philargiry doctor of diuinite haue taught me to call my selfe so yf that my other name shoulde be at any tyme to odyous Ite missa est fare ye wel tyl the nexte tyme that we mete again Knouule here ye not as this womaÌ„ speketh so blasphemoussly agaynste God and his worde Marke ye not as she preferreth her selfe before the supper of our lord Iesu christ and yet she is the Popis doughter Fremouth I heare her talke very wel howbeit I perceyue not the haynousnes of the matter as ye doo therfore shew me it playnly I shall not spare to lay it to her charge Knouulege fyrst when she is but the creature of maÌ„ she sayeth that she can take synne awaye by the offerynge vp of Christes bodye and bloude wherein she maketh her selfe equall wyth our sauyour Christ And wher as she sayeth that she caÌ„ make rayn fayre wether heale all maner of dyseases she makethe her selfe god Where as she sayeth that she caÌ„ make wyth .v. wordes bothe God and man she maketh her selfe myghtyer theÌ„ god for seyng that god is euerlastyng and hath no begynnynge he can not make hym selfe then wher as she sayeth that she maketh God she makethe her selfe myghtier theÌ„ god Yf this be not blasphemy what shall we call blasphemy Fremouth Syr these are intollerable blasphemies in dede therfore she â—hal not scape wyth them thus How Gentelwoman tary a lytle and heare what shall be sayde vnto you Here master Iustice before al thys worshypful coÌ„pany in God and the Kynges name I charge you wyth thys womaÌ„ that she may be furthcuÌ„myng to answer vnto such crymes of heresy and blasphemy as shall be layde vnto her charge Master Iustice Wotest thou the lewed fellow what thou sayest doest wylt thou rayle agaynste the holy blessed messe and accuse her of heresy blasphemy lay haÌ„des on this felow for he speaketh against the syxe articles and agaynst the Sacramente of the altar I take wytnes of you neyghboures what thys fellowe sayeth knouulege Soft syr and be not so hasty yf that ye put thys man in pryson and refuse to execute it that he hathe charged you wyth all saye not but ye be warned ye wyl be throw your selfe Ye ar begiled master Iustice the worlde is not now as ye thinke it is The time of persecuting the professors of the truth thaÌ„kes be vnto God beginneth now to weare away ye haue persecuted long enough already in tyme past a lytle to longe The kynges intent purpos is nowe at the beginning of his reygne to purge and clense the churche of al abuses and enormites to examine and try with the touch stone of goddes word all sacrifices ceremonyes whych are in the church whether thei ar agreing wyth the word of God or no that they that do agre may be allowed holden styl and that thei that ar disagreing may be taken away Then seyng that thys is the Kynges mooste godly purpose when as ye wyll not suffer men to cite abuses such thynges as at thought to be abuses to come to examination meÌ„ may gather playnly that ye enteÌ„de to resyst the kinges most godly purpos Which yf ye doo ye ar not his frende Yf the messe after dew examinatioÌ„ be found to be good godly she shal haue no harme but yf she be sounde to be of anticstrih but a fained thyng to wyn money which to the ydle prestes tht caÌ„ not preach why may not the kingaes hyghnes as well put her down dryue her out of the church as the popes wilines set her vp and broughte her into the church Therfore I wil aduyse you to leaue of your troblynge of thys honest man be contet to execute his resonable request Master Iustic Syr at your instauÌ„ce I wyll let this man go wyl also se that thys womaÌ„ shall be furthcuÌ„ming to answer vnto such thynges as shal be layde vnto her charge knouuleg Farewel master Iustice M. Iust farewell syr Palemon the Iudge Inquere Peter yf there be any man that hathe any actyon or matter to be intreated of thys daye in thys Courte lette hym brynge it in and entre it and he shall be hearde Peter Preco. Yf there be anye that hath any mater in thys courte let him entre hys actioÌ„ for my Lord iudge is redy to heate it M. Fremouth Here is a woman my Lorde whyche defendeth open heresy and commytteth blasphemy agaynste God his holy word Palemon What sayest thou womaÌ„ is it so as thys maÌ„ hathe reported of thee Missa I deny that I spake any heresy or commytted any blasphemy in al my life Fremouth Dyddest thou not saye that thou cameste froÌ„ Christ and the Apostles that thou couldest delyuer soules out of purgatory yea and dampned soules oute of hel and couldest purchesse forgiuenes of synnes wyth the offerynge vp of Christes body and bloude agayn and that thou couldest do more theÌ„ Christ can do are not these saiynges ful of heresy and blasphemy Missa I grauÌ„te I sayd all the saiynges whych ye haue rehersed sauinge the last whych I vtterly deny that I euer said or though in all my lyfe tyme. Fremouth I shall proue my Lorde er I go hence by her awn haÌ„de wrytyng that she taketh in hande to doo that God neuer toke in hande that is to make God whych yf I caÌ„ shew I shall proue that she holdeth that she can do more then Christ can do Palemon TheÌ„ ye deny not but that ye tayde all the reste whereof ye are accused Missa I sayde them and wyll say them agayne knouulege And those saiynges shall I by the helpe of God proue false Hereticall and