this all the wit I have and wonderfull ignorance Because I said it is not good to neglect following the light but that every one minde the light of Christ Jesus in them in answer to thy words which was haveing said the light which convinceth of sin is the light of Christ as God which the neglect of will be sure to damne as thou saist and now let wise men judge of my answer but thou falls heavily on it proving that obedience to the law will not justifie and the like which I doe not at all affirm but to that I say the law having its opperation upon the disobedient the justifier comes to be seen which is he that is the end of the Law and the law must by him be obeyed or fulfilled in thee if ever thou be saved from being damned by it Consider of this when thou hast a better understanding for its yet hidden from thee then when thou hast thus cried out against my just Answer thou tells me what I should have said Alas poore man thou reaches not what the knowledge of things eternall is by that wisedome in which thou art I need no man to teach me but the Lord Then thou saist Jesus Christ hath obeyed the Law and justified thee c. Reply Nay hold repent first and be turned from thy iniquities and believe in him and boast not thy selfe so proudly thou art in the transgressions of the Law in disobedience to it a lyar slanderer and scorner one that the Prince of the power of the Aire rules in a childe of wrath and every one shall dye for his owne iniquity and the soule that sins shall dye and wrath to every one that doth evil and the revelation of the judgements of God Learne what this meanes or ask them that are of a better understanding then thy selfe Then thou seems to minde me of some weaknesse and cries out Wonderfull foolishnesse c. Because I said the light of Christ given to every man Jo. 1. 9. as thou confessest is not contray to the Spirit of Christ and to the grace of God but is one in their nature Mark and a man cannot possibly love one of them and hate another therefore one they are in the union leading in the same way unto the same end and where doth the Spirit of Christ give light or that grace of God work or lead if not in the conscience c These are my words Now let honest men consider and John Bunion be silent what foolishnesse or wonderfull weaknesse is in these words but is onely to the wisedome which is devillish which despiseth truth or what cause was there to blush when I wrote them as he impudently saith who cannot contradict them nor reprove them and yet railes upon them no marvell that thou would passe them as thou saist with such a poore shift to evade with a lye that thou hast spoken to it already when as thou hast not medled of these things O let not thy impudency so sottishly carry thee for thy shame is seen and laid open its good in thy light to passe that which confounds thee which is past answering so to save thy credit among thy fellowes the cause to blush is in thy self and it s brought to thy doore Then thou pleads for the Scripture to be the rule in opposition to my Question which is not answered which was can there be any surer thing for the creature to look to to walk to life or to come to God by then the light of Christ which every man hath given him c. But thou may for shame cease pleading for Scripture rule being thy selfe art so farr contrary to it for he that walkes in the life of the Scripture I have union with him and the light of Christ is a more surer testimony either to witnesse justification or condemnation then any mans words without whatsoever then my other Question was whether the Turks Jewes and thee and others doe serve sin and lust because Christ hath not given you light to discover your sins or because you hate that light that is given and much to this thou speakest not pertinent nor answered in plainesse I leave it to the Reader to judge and to read my answer Page 17. of my first which clears truth from all what thou hast said against it in this particular Now I come to the next thing where thou foolishly charges me That my doctrin is not according to truth but a lye Charigng me to affirm that which the Apostle doth deny Because I said the spirit is given to every man though every man receives it not and it strives with the wicked though he follow it not c. My words herein are truth and no lye neither contrary to the Scripture and let the Reader be Judge betwixt us the Apostle saith the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withall and some of these to whom he writes thus was wicked given to incest and idolatry and other sins here I prove it was given to the wicked and thou confesses the righteous had it and there is but these two on the face of the earth Now if thou can find a man that is neither wicked nor righteous then thou hast advantage then some hath not the manifestation of the Spirit the Saints had the Comforter the Spirit of truth and he the Spirit of truth convinced or reproved the world of sin they that were not Saints but wicked had it reproving them Marke these things and let honest men judge while both you and I am silent whether thy doctrine which denyes that which the Scripture affirmes or mine which bears witnesse to the same thing which Scriptures speaks be to be disowned let an equall line measure the shame and false doctrin is fallen upon thee and thou art offended that I should say thou brings other vain arguments with a vapour saying Neither I nor my fellowes are able to answer c. But I say true the arguments are vaine one is The Devils are convinced but hath not the Spirit or such like Now what is this to the purpose that thou contends in that wherein no-body strives with thee nor none affirms against thee and it is a vaine argument to parelell the Devill in such a cause as having the Spirit but thou art so blind it s hardly possible to let thee see thy ignorance herein I may not much strive with thee onely I le tell thee of those things and the sober Reader shall judge to instance a thing impossible to prove things possible is vaine arguments so that I have herein done thee no wrong Then thou cries out of my weaknesse and that I Blaspheme and of a great deale of ignorance discovered in me and bids me be silent and falsly charges me with Presumption and such like c. Because I said thus much I leave with thee till thou prove the light of Christ which thou confesseth every man hath to be
dealt justly with thee in the sight of God and all that know him and when the booke of thy conscience is opened thou shalt also confesse to this thing when thou standest condemned with them with whom thou art now joyned against us who have the testimony that we are of God and worshippers of the Father in the spirit and truth and my words were spoken by the spirit of the Lord and that in thy conscience shall witnesse them in the day of the Lord though now thou Opprobriously say * here are flung into the wind And whereas thou seemesto be greatly offended that I should say parte of the first booke is a Corrupted grain of Babylons treasure c. But have not I spoken the truth herein also when I say I have numbred up part of your work and this is the sum thereof that part which I have numbred viz. your lyes and false reproaches against the Quakers is a corrupted grain yea and of Babylons treasure too I am not ashamed of my words though thou would defend your worke by saying Your discourse was of the Birth Righteousnesse death blood c. And of the second coming of the son of Mary c. To which I say these things and the knowledge of them by the spirit of God is not counted by me Corrupted nor of Babylon though now I answer as in my last the words I own but thy voice I deny and knowes it to be the voice of the stranger and for this saying ha I not nor never shall have any burthen upon my Conscienâ—e though thou would say it but 't is cleared in the sight of God even though I say all that thou speakest I deny or thy speaking of any thing of the Kingdome of God with thy lying spirit And whereas thou art offended that I should say you are described to be the flock of Ishmaell and of the seed of Cain whose line reacheth to the murdering Preists c. And thou saist I am very sensorious and utterest many words without knowledge c. Reply Yea your words doth describe your nature for by your voice I know you to be none of Christs sheepe and accordingly I judge in just judgement and in true knowledge and doe not falfly sensure nor utter words void of knowledge and my words shall be witnessed by you in the day of the Lord Envy is of Cains nature and seed and in that you are and lyars are of Ishmaels stock and you are guilty of that let the sober Reader try and you are among the murdering Preists party and close joyned to them in doctrin and practise especially in writing against us Now no wrong have I done you that thou needest to be troubled and seekes to cover your selves by thy faire words in thy answer as if you were righteous but all will not hide you your works make you manifest to be no lesse then what I have said of you Then farther thou art hot against me in that I say you are found enemies to Christ revealed in his Saints and this thou hast noted it in the Margent for false but thou dost not well to be angry it is true what I have spoken thy own words doe prove it in saying there was nothing in thee to be taken notice of this was a denying of Christ within and such as deny him are found enemies to him within So the lye is thy own who hast denyed truth let the wise Reader judge and thy many words in a pretending answer will not cover you from the guilt of what I have charged upon you and not falsly and what I have said hitherto is true and not false though thou fainingly say thou marvels I should be so over-seen as to utter so many false things in so little a space nay my understanding was open when I wrote forth that book at which thou art so tormented that it hath caused thee some months travellin anguish to cleare thy selfe and yet cannot be at rest and thou art over-seen who resists the reproofe of thy wickednesse Then thou goes about to justify thy brother Burtons words who wickedly laid it down as thou immpudently goest to justify it who joyned in his accusation and slanders Quakers with Ranters and this would thou justify we are one against my just answer which denyed them in the fourth page of my first where I said between Quakers and Ranters there is no more union c. then betwixt light and darknesse good evil and that answer stands untouched by thee and is true and in justifying John Burtons wicked slander thou art more wicked in comparing the Principles and saist it will appeare they agree in one c. But what a wicked course hast thou taken to clear him by adding thy own wickednesse let all consider that reads for doe not I desire in plainnesse in my first in these words if thou dare lay * the Charge only upon the Quakers write in plainesse and bring testimony of thy accusation and thou may receive a farther answer but not a word in plain answer to this is returned though soberly desired neither time nor place nor witnesses evidenced to clear your selves of your first slanders which had been more honest then to have slandered afresh passing over your first but it seemes you cannot cleare your selves in honesty and so fulfill your wickednesse by adding to your lyes and slanders as thou impudently doth in thy comparing the principles of the Ranters with the Quakers And to save thy brother from shame guilt thou art fallen thy self into the snare justly may be judged to exceed him in wickednesse and thou saist with shame to thy selfe I repeat it that the * Quakers will not own Christ without them but thou brings not testimony of this asserion til then be thou reckoned and shall be plauged for a lyar which will be for ever for we own him as he is ascended far above all heavens who fills all things yea and without us too so that instead of proving the first false accusation thou adds another slander and the * second thing wherein thou compares them is unsound for though we witnesse yea thousands yet we need no man to teach us but as the anointing with in us as the Saints did 1 John yet we cry not down the ministry of God but ownes it and cryes down such by whom people cannot come to the knowledge of the truth though they be ever learning who Preaches for hire and goes for gifts and rewards and loves the wages of unrighteousnesse and this was the Apostles doctrin as it was ours and is no heresie though thou may so judge it for we say by the same spirit as the Apostles did they that are of God heareth us who are in the truth which is but one and there is not another and the Apostles which witnessed the Saints needed no man to teach them did exhort them and yet did not condemn principles by
man in that Nature is ascended into Heaven and therefore boast not thy selfe another time This nakednes of thine might have been covered but for thy own boasting and thou saist Acts 1. proves it let the reader search If he can find that Christ ascended in sinfull wicked Nature such as theirs is who are one with John Bunian and this is another lie of the Scripture and though thou with much impudent confidence affirme the Quakers to be deluders c. I say from that we rather love dispraise then praise and are as our fore Fathers were counted deceivers and yet are true and thou art deceived in thy own heart in that thou understands my words that I should say as though there were no false Prophets now because I said they were in the Apostles dayes which is true and yet are they now too even it s witnessed by thee and thy fellowes who are in their steps who through coveteousnes making merchandize of soules and your people are ever learning and not able to come to the knowledge of the truth and goes for gifts and rewards and are false accusers and such like Nay but understand me better for I say thou art a false Prophet and thou art now though thy root sprang forth in the time of the Apostles of which thou art a branch and thy fellows And though I said that Antichrist was in the dayes of John and this was before a Quaker was heard of my words I own prove that that the Christians was called Quakers at that day if thou canst c. I alow not thee to be my Interpreter except I found thee more honest but doth condemne thy meaning upon my words and though thou say instead of proving our selves not false Prophets we prove our selves no Christians because I said that word Quakers was not heard of in those dayes Now consider are they no Christians now whose title or name without was not given or heard of in the Apostles dayes then Protestants are no Christians nor Independants are no Christians nor Anabaptists are no Christians because they were not called so in the Apostles dayes and while thou hast thought to prove us no Christians hast cast out thy selfe also then thou art no better then we and what poor arguments these are let the wise consider and vaine consequences I did not say there were no Quakers then but not a Quaker beard of viz by that name for there was thousands of Quakers who trembled and quaked at the word of the Lord Moses and David Jeremiah Isaack Paul with many more were Quakers and trembleâ—s though not then so called but as I said such as thou hast such thou brings and thy master will accept thee Then thou saist I fling durt in thy face because I said if we should diligent search thee we should find thee in their steps through feigned words through coveteousnesse making merchandize of soules loving the ways of unrighteousnesse And further I said among them thou art found who art preaching for hire and loves the error of Balaam who went after gifts and rewards c. Now thou seemes to be grieved and calls this a false accusation but le ts try the cause admits dispute art not thou in their steps and among them that do these things aske John Burton with whom thou art jâ—yned close to vindicate him and calls him Brother he hath so much yearly 150. l. or more except thou hast some of it which is unrighteous wages and bire and gifts and rewards What saist thou art thou not in his steps and among and with him and them that doe these things if he be thy Brother and thou so own him what is evill in him whom thou vindicates I lay upon thee but tell me who have heard thee deny him and the rest of the Independants in these things which thou knows he doth act and in thy answer I cannot find the fully clearing thy self by denyall but saist that spirit that lead me out of this way is a lying spirit out of what way I say out of the way of preaching for hire dost thou meane nay it s a lying spirit in thee that goe in their steps and among them that goes in this way and though thou bid me have a care of receiving by hear-say what I have said received in this is truth though thou evade it never so much As to that of some bidding thee throw away the Scriptures c. Indeed upon such termes it might be spoken so as to be owned a lyer and a slanderer is an unfit fellow to meddle with the Scriptures or to take the name of the Lord or of the man Christ Jesus in his mouth and I may say truly what hast thou unrighteous person to doe to take his name and truth in thy mouth hateing to be reformed And in that I say of thy crying against Christ within this is true who said there was nothing in thee nor any man without acception to be taken notice of as we may prove by witnesse though thou deny it then was not Christ within and what lesse is this then to cry against him when as thou denyed him within or else concluded he is not worth taking notice of And though thou say I falsely speak of thee in saying thou calls the Doctrine of Christ within false opinions and take in hand to discover it but the falsenesse is in thee who hath utterd that which is untruth and contrary to the Gospel and now denyes it or would hide thy wickednesse for thou having framed an objection and speaks of some that are for a Christ within c. and then thou saist thou will discover the falsity of such opinions Now thou dost here reckon the Doctrine of Christ within false opinion or among them at least let the Reader judge and be thou silent for shame but all thou saist cleares thee not from what I said of thee God shall judge thee thou lying tongue and deceitfull heart Then thou charges me with folly and to eat my first words and to be unstable in judgement and to fight against the truth c. From my question asked doth not the Scripture say Christ is within except you be reprobates and is not this thus much all is reprobates but they in whom Christ is within and yet because I said the measure or manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man this thou hast catched at and would prove it unsound but truth is over thee and both these are true and further I say that Christ is given into the world yea to all but all receives him not and they that doe not receive him are reprobates though he be given but not received and the folly and fighting against truth is in thy selfe who saith it is contrary to the Scriptures to say the Spirit is giving to every one thou here lyest of the Scripture as it s proved and I doe not befoole my selfe in saying the words or some of them I own
nor regarded then may the Devil have whole Possession of the heart of man and if the light of Christ Jesus within be owned and loved and walked in then Christ is received and there the Devil is dispossessed and therefore it stands him upon above all other things to possesse people against the light within which Christ hath given that then he may not be discovered in the heart but may keepe all his goods in peace and have quiet Possession in his habitation Well be it so though all men of that Kingdom doth gainsay the light of Christ by this or that way of wickednesse yet it is precious unto us and I cannot but earnestly contend for it against all gainsayers and yet strives not for mastery to our selves nor to exalt any thing of our selves but only the Lord and his truth which he hath made more deare to us then either life or name or liberty and though so it be that this way be spoken evil against every where yet the Lord owneth it and us who are faithfull therein in the presence of our enemies to the confounding of the wisdome of this world and whereas John Bunion hath formerly set himselfe divers wayes to oppose the truth under the account of his great zeale against error but especially in a Booke sometime since put forth by him thinking thereby to offend the way of righteousnesse and now a second time hath appeared with a defence upon his former called A Vindication c. Of the former and his defence is more to the laying open his folly and to the uncovering of his blindnesse and wickednesse then his first offence given by him which caused me to write in short four sheets of paper to clear the truth from what he had spoken against it And now having again a second time appeared in many words without knowledge yet in great zeale hath brought forth many things reprovable even lyes and slanders and evil speeches in abundance yet with great pretence of holynesse and sobernesse and he hath not only helped me but the truth which is my cheife and moving cause that the truth may be clear of this my second Reply unto him and not for my own sake in any thing for I more prize to be accounted a foole and dispraysed in the world then to be honoured thereby and when iniquity shall come to an end and transgression shall be finished his shall be the Kingdome and the Inheritance of Rest eternall that hath kept himselfe clean and pure from a lying and slanderous tongue and who hath done righteously and fulfilled the will of God For it is not every one that saith Lord Lord that shall enter into the Kingdome but he that doth the will of the Father which is in heaven and in that day when the Booke of all consciences shall be opened and every thing brought to judgement then shall the light in every ones conscience answer the Lord in the justnesse of his dealings and even then if not before shall this John Bunion know the light in all mens consciences is of force when he shall be judged and then shall he see he hath wronged the Lord and dealt evil against his own soule in speaking evil of what he hath not known and in giving false judgement of what he hath not understood and till that day I leave him without praying for fire to devoure him only may reprove his lyes errors contradictions and false dealing and clear the truth from his false Charges and only to the most cheifest things whereof he accuses us in short I may Reply And whereas thou saist There is one that hath ventured to stand up against the truth and hath published a booke in which there is a great number of Heresies cunningly â—ented by him and also many things there falsly Reported of thee To which I answer that same Booke published called The true saith of the Gospel contended for c. Shall clear it self from this reproach that I have not stood up against any one truth or uttered any Heresie or lye against thee * but in that Booke did witnesse forth the truth against many things falfly layd down by thee against the Quakers and that same Booke with sobernesse read without partiality and prejudice doth clear it selfe from these false aspersions and prove thee a lyer herein and I leave it to the honest hearted to judge who reads that book while I with patience and not seeking any revenge doe bear thy reproaches counting them greater riches then thy praise And farther thou saist Only by the way thou thinkest good to mind me of my cloathing my selfe with the words of the Prophets and Apostles c. Answ. true enough by the way out of the truth and out of Christ who is the way hath thou spoken this and so hath uttered in falsehood and by or out of the way neither have I cloathed my selfe and yet am I cloathed with the life of the Prophets and Apostles and not only with their words nor do I fight against them though thou falsly say it but bears witnesse unto them in doctrine and conversation and against thee all the seed of evil doers and take backe thy own words to thy self who art in that generation which hath the words but art without the * life in the evil life Farther thou saist I have broken out with a false Testimony of John Burton and thee at which thou seemest to be much offended that I should say thou art joyned with the broken Army of Magog and hath shewed your selves in the defence of the Draggon against the Lamb c. Reply what needest thou be troubled at this have I not spoken the truth and have I not said well herein for you are joyned with all the wicked in the Nation and as lyars and swearers and drunkards persecutes with violence and as the proud and wanton are filled with scorning and singing wicked rimes in the streets even so also are you come in Print and all of you against them called Quakers the drunkards and swearers they beate them and abuse them and cast them as for dead into diches with stoning in the high wayes and in the streets beating downe with staves and the wanton they sing there rimes in scorne in Alehouses and Taverns against them and thou and thy fellowes and generation appeares in open Print slandering and reviling them yet in pretence of zeale for God and all this you doe against us who have the witnesse that we are of God and that the whole world lyes in wickednesse and now are not you all joyned as an Army and doe you not shew your selves in the defence of the Draggon * what wrong I have done you let the upright in heart judge whether I have given false testimony against you or no and though you have noted it for a lye in the Margent yet the lye is thy own who hath gain-said the truth herein and called it a lye and I have
passed by the two * slanders cast upan us by John Burton in your first booke which I charged you withall in mine to which not one word as to evidence your slanders but hath slipped it over as a foule guilty man which charge stands upon you both that you are slanderers herein and my first answer I am not ashamed of though you snarle much about it and would taint it or undermine it but thy subtilty is to weake truth confounds thee and thy simplicitie which is that we prise the Lord Jesus Christ God man to be precious unto us and hath owned him alone to be the foundation whom God hath lyed and in his light we are saved c. As I said in Page 7. against which words thou canst not justly except nor yet prove the contrary and yet as a man that loves to heare thy owne tongue thou layes down many things impertinent as to the cause in hand But it had been more honest to have helped thy brother Burton from under my true charge and cleared the truth if thou had been able but thou hast left him in the dirt under the charge of a slanderer and art unfaithfull to him and goes about to inquire what it is as thou saist to lay Christ for a foundation thou confesses what I have said is fairly spoken and yet thy envious minde and unbelieving heart seemes to be offended at my words and to them that can believe I speake plainly and doth not bege thy beliefe nor any maes but commends my selfe to every mans conscience in the fight of God and knowes no other Jesus nor Saviour nor Foundation then he that John was sent to prepare the way before who was and is and is to come who said I am the light of the World and now my words are defended to be truth in the fight of them that are spirituall and thou and such may heare but must not understand who have hardened your hearts least you should believe and therefare is given up to gainsayings till the wrath of God breake out against you and let John Burton remember my words where I said he is fallen into the pit which he digged for another and he undervalues the Lord Jesus whose doctrine is to speake truth but he hath lyed and slandered and so is out of Christ the foundation and undervalues him who keepes not his sayings but is a worker in darknesse and not in the light And as to that where I say thus much is the mind of the penmans spirit of the first Epistle of the first Booke secretly smiting at the doctrine of true faith and salvation to wit Christ within I have said the truth in righteousnesse and doe own my words though thou say I have done him a great deale of wrong c. But I leave it to be judged by them that are spirituall and not unto thee to give false meaning of my words and doth not he say in that Epistle of some that have been depending too much upon some thing they call Christ and the rigteousnesse of Christ within them c. Let the wise in heart judge whether this be not as I have said even a secret smiting against Christ within without which as I have said there can be no salvation for he that hath not Christ in him is a reprobate and this I speake not in opposition but as a testimony of Christ Jesus that dyed and rose againe and ascended who is within and without also and if any preach another Jesus let him be accursed and repent who art in the wrong doing thy selfe falsly charging me noting in the Margent with speaking falsly when I spake the truth and the false speaking rests at thy doore and is driven thither with the power of truth Then whereas thou would justify thy former wickednesse in charging the Quakers to be decievers against my just answer * in page 8. of mine which stands free from any of thy vaine arguments and uncontroled though resisted but it appeares my words sticks close unto thee and torments thee and that we are deceivers thou saist it will easily appeare with much impudence confidence thy arguments we shall try And saist thou First the Quakers deny the man Christ Jesus without them and own Christ no other wayes but as he is within c. Reply How impudent art thou in forging lye after lye and building them up in thy worke one upon another and a wicked course thou takes to clear thy former slanders truly charged upon thee in my first even by laying another upon it Friend By this thy deceitfull flander while thou hast thought to prove us deceivers hath proved thy selfe one even a false accuser mayst thou not blush to say we own Christ no otherwayes then as he is within we own him which was is and is to come who is within us and without us as I have said in my first we own him as the Scripture speakes of him and it is known to the Lord and in his sight we are approved whether thou be ieve it or not for I begg not beleife of thee but leaves thy double slanders to be read and judged of by all honest people and in the interim know it is a bad way to prove us deceivers by thy lyes this the rather is a witnesse to us that we are of God and against thee to be of the Devil who was a lyar from the beginning and thou his Child succeeds him in lying Thy second proofe is That we are deceivers because saith thou We doe perswade soules that Christ is crucified in them dead within them kept down with something within them which was never taught by them that spoke the Scriptures c. Reply These words are falsly laid downe but what thinkest thou of such who might crucifie to themselves * a fresh the Son of God and put him to open shame as it is written this they could not doe above Starrs they being men upon the earth and Christ was sent to preach to the spirits in Prison he that can read let him understand this doctrine was preached by them that spoke forth the Scriptures who had the spirit of God but in bâ—indnesse I finde thee and I think so I must leave thee and doth not feed the Serpent yet my words are plain to him that hath an understanding and an eare open and deceiver belongs to thee and at thy doore it lyes and thou cannot remove it Farther thou saist We perswade soules that that man that was borne of the Virgin Mary is not above the clouds and the Starres when as the Scripture saith a cloud received him out of their sight Reply This is another lye uttered without fear or knowledge or honesty we doe not perswade soules to believe any such thing but beares witnesse to the truth of that Scripture that a cloud received him out of their sight and we say he is out of their sight and must appeare againe in sight and
and beggerly in comparison c. For shame cease such Divinity least all thy fellowes reproove thee O how doth thy ignorant zeale lead thee into snares and trape thy owne feet Conscience which thou saist is the light of God is Nature it selfe then it must needs be that every mans nature which is sinfull say I is the light of God O what horrible doctrine this proves in its explanation Blush and be ashamed when thou considers then thou cryes out in reproofe O wonderfull sayes thou That men should make a God and Christ of their consciences I know none that doth it nor that ever spoke so highly of conscience as thou hast here done yet we say our consciences beares us witnesse in the holy Ghost and this is our rejoycing the testimony of our consciences and if our consciences condemn us not then have we confidence towards God and yet makes not God and Christ of our conscience as thou secretly would charge us withall then thou goes on and would seeme to prove but cannot that something besides the light of Christ convinceth of sin but thy reach is too short though thou wind abroad and lets thy thoughts into the pit of thy owne reason to bring up a thing to confound truth but cannot for this is thy proofe where they were all convinced by their owne consciences Jo. 8. Now all these I say were men come into the world and therefore according to Jo. 1. 9. were lighted with the light of Christ and thou hast confessed that conscience is the light of Christ as God which is no lesse then I have affirmed then wherefore hast thou waded so farr when at the end thou art forced to confesse my position thy words being explained that it is the light of Christ that doth convince of sin and can find no other thing besides that then thou saist here is something besides the spirit of Christ that doth convince of sin c. But yet I say nothing besides the light of Christ as thou hast confessed and that was that only which I affirmed in the 10 page of mine about which thou hast made all this stir and to no purpose as to prove any thing convinceth of sin but the light of Christ and in that I said he that convinceth of sin against the law leads up into the fulfilling of the law which still I own though the world would contradict it but cannot and I clearly see thou hast not reached the understanding of my words But answereâ—â—hy owne conceiving and not my words for I doe not say or thinke that righteousnesse comes by the law yet that is righteousnesse which condemneth that which breaks the law if thou hast an eare thou may heare and as I said it is the word of truth the righteousnesse of the law must needs be fulfilled in judgement upon you all and by Christ Jesus in you if ever you receive the salvation to your soules and thou hast not yet learned what I mean and though thou say that for justification thou lookes beyond the law to the sonne of Mary but I say thou must not look beyond it for condemnation who are in transgression and not reconciled to God through condemnation in the flesh for it will reach you to condemnation and thou saist Thou understands that I doe in all my disoourse disowne Christ without by pretending to a Christ within To which I say thy understanding deceives thee who it may be feared blinds thy owne eyes that thy conscience may not condemn thee for slandering but while I am approved in the sight of God of those things whereof thou accuses me falsly and wickedly I matter nothing what a lyers judgement is of mee my answer to thy 6 Query shall prove me clear and thee a lyer herein that we own Gods Christ as the Scripture deelares of him as I have said and the darknesse of my words is to blinde the eye of subtilty and not to deceive the hearts of the simple though thou would say it see if thou now can tell what I say And whereas thou art offended that I say many more things in thy Booke I passe by as being not pertinent to the thing in hand my words are true for the thing in hand was proving us decievers and that was the most of that I medled withall or â—urposed to oppose and to other things that thou speakest of in short my answer was and is the words or some of them I own and thy voice I deny without any blaspheming or error in the view of all the world though thou would say it for whatsoever a lying spirit speaks I deny it to be the voice of Christ though it may be some of his words and thy spirit is a lying I pirt though thou be offended that I should say fooles loves to be medling yet its true enough is not he a foole who is alyer and a slanderer â—â—at understands not betwixt before a time and since a time judged in thy own conscience and thy faire words as that it must needs be saist thou That the Saints of God must be called foolos c. I say neved presume the name of Saint but clear thy selfe of thy lyes and slanders and perverting Scriptures and learne the First principle of Religion Even that which Condemns thee And as to that which I say is true that the Pope can speake as much of Christ without as thou I own it and may add I beleeve he can speake more then thou of Christ without and with as good or better understanding though both a like sar from the Kingdom of God yet in thy answer thou askes me if I put no difference betwixt the speaking of and beleeving in Christ without Yea I doe a great deale for he that beleeves in in him hath the witnesse in himselfe of him and his heart is purifyed and he is a new creature which thou art not but thou I suppose would be reckoned a Believer for I think the Pope hath both more words and more good workes and makes as much conscience of lying and false accusing as thou for ought as may be understood of a tree by the fruites which is our way to judge as Christ hath given us example then in that I said thou hast answered thy selfe a question deceitfull thou art offended and boasts thy selfe against me Charging me to be an enemy to the truth and the like in that I did not manifest thy deceit but now I shall therefore to stop thy proud boasts in that answer thou calls it a sad doctrin which saith follow the light which Christ hath enligh ned every man withall and other such like things following that question which are deceitfull and wicked and thou thereby is proved the enemy to truth thy selfe and thou and thy words are both deceitfull and therefore boast not thy self then thou answers my Question which was doth not the Scripture witnesse that all who have not Christ within are Reprobates the
in thy book though I have written against the book for though thou speak Christ words and the Apostles words yet thy voyce is the strangers and thy voyce I deny what ever words thou speakes and is not befooling my selfe and here I could justly end my discourse and what is said is sufficient to manifest thee and me to the honest Reader And thus far thy weapons of slanders are broken and thy refuge of lyes are layd-wast and this also is cast by as our spoyled prey of Babylons treasure and trampled upon and know that we are of God and he that is of God heareth us and to our God shall all bow and before him tremble And whereas thou seemes to be greatly offended and stumbling very much at my answers to thy Queries because thy carnall conceptions is not satisfied nor thy vaine minde gratified having as thou thinkst great occasion against me thereby which causes thy mouth to be opened in vapouring words aloft against the simplicity of the Gospel not understanding my words for the things of the Kingdome of God is a parable to thee and sealed from thee never to be known in the reason in which thou judgest But in short thus I Reply I did not purpose to answer fully to them to feede any mans wisedome with my knowledge of the things of Gods Kingdome for the Queries were not fully directed to the Quakers so that quench thy anger and according to my answer goe seeke a further answer or else be thou still unsatisfied from them who are led with a spirit of delusion for such a direction requires no full answer from me nor any of us who are in the truth and not in the delusion neither did I purpose nor doe I at any time to answer fully to such things are directed in a great part to others I am not a servant especially to them that are led with a spirit of delusion to fulfill thy will But yet the short answers that I gave which was not in the behalfe of delusion but for the truths sake I still own though thou cannot understand them but products many bad lying wicked consequences from them and my purpose was not to feed thy foolish wisedome in answering nor to satisfie thy reason to receive praise from thee or any man for so I know it must be in hearing and seeing thou must not perceive nor understand who art of the generation hardened and in parable is the Kingdome of heaven unto thee and I rejoyce the rather in being a stumbling to thee in that state wherein thou standest then that I should have gratified thee for I seek not nor receives honour from man in what I doe but is covered from the worlds knowledge and know this if thou cannot receive the Kingdome of Heaven as a little leaven thou shalt never know it But yet how wicked art thou in this also though not understanding me in what I said yet so fouly wronging me with above 30. false charges and slanders from my words which thou reaches not the knowledge of so it will be enough Reply to sum up thy lyes and send them backe to thee to seeke them out and an evidence for them and the Queries and my Answers shall stand as they are to be judged of by honest men while we are both silent in our own cause they are to be seen at large in my first Book The true faith of the Gospel contended for c. in the 26 27 28. pages And whereas further I speake at the end of my Answers of Christ within the hope of glory and said it is that mistery which long hath been hid from ages but now is made manifest and declared and though the wise of this world cannot receive it but speaks evill against it yet it is deare unto us and so much more precious because despised by such as him and such things are a testimony to us and against you viz. our enemies c. As in my 29. Page of my first may be seen and most wickedly this or part of it he calls bablings and saies he passes by it O horrible impudency what marvell that he should so belye me when as he hath called the very Scripture truth spoken forth in righteousnesse bablings and these things I leave the Reader to Judge of and all his lyes thrown upon me impudently and consider what ground this man hath from my answers to be seen in my first booke to broach out and belch out such a number of lyes and slanders in 5. sides of paper not any one of them charged against me falsly were spoken by me or ever in my thought to speake or ground given by any of my words for such productions as it is seen what lodges in the heart of such a fellow even desperate wickednesse who is without any shame or honesty who dare utter such things against the upright who hates not his enemies but while I am clear in the sight of God from all his false slanders I matter not what John Bunion say of me who is as a man given up to wickednesse who in lesse then a sheet of paper hath uttered 30. lyes or more which I may particularly manifest before he can find evidence a great wickednesse can this mans converts be good while himself is unconverted is he a minister of Christ for shame let it not be told so well I beg not vengeance against him but leaves my answers to be read who wil clear me from his lying consequences most wickedly conceived and as wickedly uttered By one of Gogs Army against a member of Jesus Now I come to reckon up his damnable Doctrines and errors which are contrary to the truth as will manifestly appeare to him that is spirituall some of them damnable without comparison John Bunian said That Christs second coming is not his coming in Spirit for his coming in Spirit is no coming He saith this or part of it is a lye made of him by me when as severall witnesses doth testifie in righteousnesse that those very words were spoken by him in Paules steeple-house in Bedford towne May 23. 1656. as is witnessed and yet this man is so impudent that he denyes what he spake or is ashamed of his words and so would cast the lye upon me who is cleere and the wickednesse lyes at his door and whereas he would prove that the second coming of Christ is not his coming in Spirit I say I will not begg him to believe it but as he believes so be it unto him and all that he saith doth not prove but that Christ promised and fullfilled to his Disciples that he would come againe to them mark againe is a second time If any man hath an ear let him hear And then he saith he will not trouble himselfe to lay this to my charge in that it was said of him Christs coming in Spirit is no coming it may be he repents of what he hath said being better considered
into Heaven in our nature viz. in his nature and they that are one with him and he and they are proved to be in corrupt nature as they will confesse it O what wickednesse to hold forth that Christ is at the right hand of God in sinfull nature as his words holds forth from his owne mouth Jo. Burton said That men may depend too much upon something called Christ and the righteousnesse of Christ within He saith that the Devil Knowes how to take the Childrens bread viz. Christ Jesus who onely is the Childrens bread and give him to dogs O sad error and damnable He saith That the Devill deceives soules by bidding them follow the light which they brought into the world with them And he confesses that light is the light of Christ as God O unutterable ignorance can a sober man read this and not be ashamed to hold forth that the Devil deceives soules by bidding them follow the light of Christ as God He saith they that follow Christ aright must follow him without to the crosse without for justification or mount Calvery without they must seek for justification without and the Spirit of Christ it leads to Christ without Reader see if this be not near unto Poperey or enquire else what he meanes as if he would have people to goe a Pilgrimage and this is contrary to Rom. 10. 6 7 8. He saith That the soule of man is the light wherewith every man is lighted by Christ as God and this is the light that every man brought into the world with him and the Devil deceives soules by this light viz. by the soule this is true from his owne words let it be marked by sober men what damnable doctrines these are hardly fit to be raked in He saith further That the Devil deceives soules by perswading them to follow the light within which he confesses is the light of Christ and that all men hath it He saith Conscience is the light of God and yet in another place saith Conscience is defiled what concurrence is here let the Reader judge to hold forth that the light of God is defiled his words plainly shewes to say that the law is the Schoolmaster to bring to Christ He saith This is a frothy argument And to make up his wickednesse he saith He is ruled by Scripture consider whether those doctrins and lyes be not quite contrary to Scripture what impudency is in this mans heart to say he is ruled by Scripture he saith They that look upon * Christ no otherwayes then as he was before the world was he dare to be bold to say they are no Christians but Antichristians he saith That * Christ as he is Mediater so he doth not lighten every man that comes into the world though as he is God he doth Markhere he would divide Christ not to be the same the Son as he is the Father yet he confesses in his Book What the Father doth the Son doth also see what contradiction here is not worth the raking in O blindnesse that may be felt in the grossest darknesse he inhabits He saith That the Devil hath more experience of the knowledge of the eternall power and Godhead then unregenerate men Mark the word more signifies something He saith The light of Christ as God is conscience and nature it selfe Mark nature is sinfull and wicked and all are children of wrath in it so are all by the light of Christ as God wicked children of wrath if Jo. Bunions doctrin be true let him make it good as he can O wonderful trash muddy stuff unheard of before He saith The Devil deceives souls by bidding them listen within and see if there be not that which doth convince of sin Mark his doctrin well He denyes That Paul bids listen within contrary to that Scripture Rom. 10. 8 9. He saith conscience may be hardned and seared and is naturally evill and yet saith Conscience is the light of Christ as God see what an agreement is here the light of Christ as God is hardened and seared and evil else J. Bunion must revoke his doctrine or else prove this Consider what stuff this is which is held forth by him He saith he preaches not for hire indeed he had no need to receive mony for such doctrin as these He saith Christ is some four or five foot long This is more then he can tell He reckons the doctrin of Christ within a false or among false opinions He saith It is contrary to Scripture to say the measure or manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man though Paul saith so plainly to the Corinthians 1 Cor. 12. 7. Mark here he hath spoken quite contrary to Scripture denyed that which Paul affirmed or else counted Pauls words against Scripture He saith They that are borne of God doe daily sin absolute contrary to the 1 John 3. 9. And therefore he would give the Apostle the lye Now Reader consider whether thou wilt believe John Bunian or the Apostle John for they are at ods and speaks quite contrary one to the other He saith That the light that shewes thee there is a God and that this God is eternall would lead to life then might the Devils be delivered from damnation and the Devils knowes God as a Creator c. He saith That the light spoken of John the 3â—is the man Christ Jesus and yet saith that the man Christ Jesus is not a condemning light Mark that Scripture saith that light was condemnation to them that did evill he saith not who must you believe He saith That the lyar and slanderer is an unbeliever and his condition is sad Consider here how out of his owne mouth he is condemned who is at large proved a lyar and slanderer out of his own mouth will the Lord condemn him He saith That a man cannot give a more right description of a false Prophet then the Prophets Christ and the Apostles did give Reply In this thou hast truly said Now le ts consider how thou hast confessed to thy own shame and laid open thy own nakednesse the Prophets said such was false Prophets as preached for hire and divined for mony and fed themselves and clothed themselves with the woole and that used their tongues and said the Lord saith it when God had not spoken to them and that cryed peace to the wicked and Christ said such were deceivers who had the chiefest place in the assembly and stood praying in the Synagogues and loved the uppermost rooms at feasts and that were called of men master and such like and the Apostle said such were deceivers to take gifts and rewards and lucre and that loved unrighteous wages and that were backbiters and false accusers and covetous and having a forme of Godlinesse but denying the power who ever taught and the people were not able to come to the knowledge of the truth with many other such like Now this is my appeale to all mens consciences
in the sight of God whether thou art not found under some of these carrectars at least or whether thou art not one in union and fellowship with such who act these things yea thou art among them and not crying against them and so art guilty of their sin though not as fully in the act as are some may be so that I doubt not but they who have not hardened their hearts and blinded their eyes will see how thou hast condemned thy self in confessing the truth and the time is coming that further it will be made manifest concerning thee only at present thou art sufficiently discovered to be out of the truth in the way of perdition and how ever though thou hast covered thy selfe as much as is possible from the stroke of thy owne hand and from the guilt of thy own confession yet Jo. Burton thou hast condemned an hundred I thinke of Independant Ministers so called thy brethren who are known to be found guilty of those things all or most of them which thou confesses are marks of a false Prophet and while thou bids us examine our selves thou art the man or among them that are proved truly guilty He saith He is not come to one of the dayes of the thousand yeares of Satans being chained and this is truly confessed and so he is in the reigne and government of the Devill and Satan is not bound but at liberty in him as it well appeares and Christs reigne is not known and so it must needs be true that he is of the Army of the Draggon against the Lamb Some of the same members with him said in Bedford That they scorned that light which convinceth of sin which the Quakers speaks of Further most falsly I am charged by him with railing against the Lord Jesus which is absolute false my words are spoken in feare and reverence of the Lord Jesus Reader these things I leave to thee to be judged of his false slanders and his damnable doctrins and wicked lying accusations and contradictions which his 9 sheets of paper is filled with as if he had set himself to lye and slander and speak wickedly against the truth which is over him and is a testimony against him and though opposed by him yet not confounded but him it confounds and by it he shall be judged and condemned and the time comes when further he may be made manifest if this be not sufficient out of the abundance of his heart hath his wicked tongue tered these things which are but a little of what lodges in him but let him prove these things first and then utter more AND now John Bunian thou and thy false witnesses and all thy company and brethren in iniquity Remember and repent for the day of your visitation is upon you blessed were you if you could receive it before it be spent not to be recalled and before the long suffering of God come to an end and you be shut up in utter darknesse and indeed friends the day hastens wherein every man shall receive according to his deeds he that hath done evill shall not be cloaked and he that hath done good shall not be uncovered in that day when the secrets of all hearts shall be laid open and searched with the eternall eye the end of my worke is to clear the truth and the way thereof God is witnesse from thy slanderous and lying and perverting tongue and onely I reproove thee by the Spirit of the Lord and so leaves thee to receive thy reward from the just God of righteous judgement who upon thy head will render vengeance in flames of fire in his dreadfull day which upon thee comes suddenly even when thou and you cries peace peace then shall destruction come as an armed man from which thou shalt not fly to escape though now you all be hardened against the Lord and his way and truth and hath even bent thy tongue for lyes and hath reproached the innocent to the peirceing of thy own soule and one day shalt thou know it therefore bow and tremble before the Lord God thou and all thy companions a lyar and slanderer thou art a perverter and wrester of the right way of God and of the Scriptures a hipocrite and dissembler a holder forth of damnable doctrines an envious man and false accuser condemning another falsly in what thy selfe is fully guilty of these things I lay to thy charge justly in the presence of the Lord God and upon thy account are they reckoned by him and proved by testimony in the sight of man and may be more fully hereafter if any thing be wanting and one day shalt thou feele the burthen of them though now thou be above shame and all thy lyes slanders deceits confusions hypocrisies contradictions and damnable doctrines of Devils with impudency held forth by thee shall be consumed in the Pit of vengeance and then shall the witnesse in thy conscience justifie the Lord in condemning thee me to be true in reproving thee and this I say to thee and you all the liveing God you know not nor his Son Jesus Christ but are enemies to God and * persecuters of the Lord of life and shall perish among the uncircumcised yee false witnesses and wicked helpers you may be ashamed of your testimony subscribed at the beginning of his lying scribble will you yet say through Grace those things are true the father stop your mouthes in the dust who hath offended the Lord more then defended him or your selves and be ashamed in the presence of God and man much more may be said hereafter to lay you further open if you yet harden your hearts in your wickednesse but I doe rather reprove you then strive with you and rather desires your return to God then your condemnation by him and with this I shall end and by what is said in short is sufficient to manifest you and John Bunian to all honest people what generation you are of and that you are guided by a lying and unclean spirit and that you are doing the Devils worke in gain-saying the way of truth and righteousnesse by your multitude of lyes and slanders and damnable doctrines and whatever you account or falsly judge of me yet am I true though as a deceiver and the Lords servants and a witnesse for him and against all your lyes and slanders and wickednesse hatched amongst you and brought forth by a lyeing orator whom you have made your mouth into the view of the world even a cursed birth and the father of it and the womb that conceived it and it shall rot and perish as the dunge and not accomplish any part of the end of your desire for so loathsome it is being truly searched and laid open that it hath not obtained neither the praise of God nor man but is defamed by men and condemned of God alas alas for thee John Bunian thy severall months travell in griefe and paine is a fruitlesse birth and