he is that they are without sin as Christ is in this world yet I ohn who knew that State wherein they had sin and in which if they had said they had no sin they deceived themselves he said if we confess our sins he is faithfull and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness 1 Ioh. 1.8 9. So he did not say they should have sin so long as they were in this world for he saith little children let no man deceive you he that doth Righteousness is Righteous even as he is Righteous 1 Ioh. 3 6 7. Plainly implying that they are deceivers who say the contrary that men cannot be without sin while they are in this world and such a deceiver is this Iohn Horn and it is evident that when Iohn saith as he is so are we in this world it was in Relation to their dwelling in God and God in them that they might have have boldness in the day of judgment 1 Iohn 4.16 17. And he that abideth in God sinneth not I. H. Saith you see this proved that the true Apostles and Prophets use to confess sin in themselves and none of them to glory in their perfection and sinlesness c. Answ If the true Apostles and Prophets use none of them to glory in their perfection then they use not to glory in Christ who is it will believe this deceit for Christ was their Righteousness and perfection as he was become all to them who were the Righteousness of God in him and in him they glorified and Rejoyced Again Iohn Horn's words are these viz. And this George White-head have lately reproached us for joyning our selves with the Nation in confessing sin and that the Quakers are ordered of God as a judgement to us namely this Nation whereof we are part for our neglect of Christ the salvation of God and the abuse of his truth how do they insult over us for this G. W. Among the rest hath Reproached us for owning our selves as part of the Nation guilty of sin with them Ans So this Iohn Horn hath owned himself and such as own him to be joyned with the Nation as a part of it guilty of sin with them who are neglecters of Christ and Abusers of the truth when in their other Book against us this I. H. and Thomas Moore do much exclaime against both the Teachers and the people of this Nation against the Teachers for being such as Isaiah speaks of Isa 56.10 11 12. As blind watchmen unto whom the preaching of the Cross is a sealed Book and they call them dumb dogs that cannot bark and that love to slumber and take their ease and to content themselves with dreams in stead of searching out the truth and that they are doggs strong to appetite hunting after livings and maintenance c. These things and much more have Iohn Horn and Thomas Moore charged the Priests of this Nation with and they charged the people generally with neglecting Christ and his truth and taking no pleasure therin but rather in sloathfulnesse formallity coveteousness pride and vanity in Aparrell c. But now marke for all these mens declaring thus against the Priests and People of this Nation they are now joyned with them and are guilty of sin with them as J.H. confesseth who hath joyned himself with the blind watch-men and the dumb dogs who content themselves with dreames instead of truth and so he is guilty of sin and a false dreamer with them Oh! what deceit and hippocrisy are these men in one while to declare so much against the Teachers and People of this Nation and another while to joyne with them as guilty of sin and abusing the truth with them so whether they be fit to teach others or not any wise man may judge And as for his saying that we reproach or villifie them as for confessing their neglect of Christ and their abuse of his truth herein he mistakes us For we witnesse against them for their hyppocrisie and deceit and being such abusers of the truth as they are And also witnesse against them for their striveing against the heavy judgment of God and their revileing and abusing that judgment which he hath ordered to punish them for their neglect of Christ and the truth of him so long abused by them which heavy judgment they acknowledge us called Quakers to be and yet they continue revileing and reproaching us when as they should rather bear the judgment of God patiently seeing they have sinned so much against God in their long abusing his truth as they have done and yet do 2. And now touching the matter of doctrine I.H. chargeth the Quakers with as for subverting the faith delivered by the Apostles and undermineing the hope of the Gospell He saith they subvert the faith in denying Christ to have that body in Heaven glorified in which he suffered and rose again c. Reply As for his lyes and falsly accuseing us about this which will fall heavy upon his own head they are clearly seen by many that know our beleefe in these things wherin we own what the Scriptures do declare And how doth this charge of I. H. against the Quakers agree with his and Tho. Moore 's saying in their Book That we said the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right Hand in Heaven when now he saith we deny Christ to have that body in Heaven glorified in which he suffered Who will beleive this man's confusion who also saith in one of his Papers against us that we are men of noe judgment about the Person of Christ Now I say then if it were so how should we either affirme or deny any thing about it for if we do either we must be of some judgment about it And how should we subvert any ones faith about the Person of Christ if we be of no judgment about it for if it were so with us I. H. should rather have informed us about the Person of Christ to have brought us into some true judgment about it if he could then have charged us with preaching other Doctrins then the Apostles did touching such things as he hath falsly charged us to be of no judgment about Thus his confusion and falshhood is apparent For though we cannot own his and their imaginations who have affirmed that Christ is in Heaven with a humane Body of flesh and bones without blood in it wherein their blindnesse much appears and therin they distinguish not a spirituall Body from a humane Body which is naturall or earthly yet we owne that the Body of Christ which suffered and ascended was changed And so his Body is a spiritual glorified Body in Heaven in the nature of the same glory which he had with the Father before the world began wherein he is glorified where that which was mortall is swallowed up of life and Immortallitie I. H. again chargeth us with subverting the hope of the Gospel in denying the
Land was kept quiet under his Reign but after he departed from the Lord he had wars for as Azariah said unto them the Lord is with you while you be with him and if ye seek him he will be found of you but if ye forsake him he will for sake you 2 Chron. 15.2 and said Hanani the Seer unto Asa The eyes of the Lord run to and fro thorowout the whole earth to shew himself strong in behalf of them whose heart is perfect towards him herein hast thou dealt foolishly therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars which manifests that then his heart was not perfect towards the Lord 2 Chron. 16.7 to the end Oh! I see this J. H would willingly have men accounted perfect with the Lord when they are sinners and if such a perfection were he would own it But this will not serve his turne against us for we own another kinde of perfection then he would have not a perfection in the sinful state or where men are departed from the Lord into the persecuting nature but such a perfection as is enjoyed thorow the sanctification of the Spirit where they that feare the Lord shall not depart from him And whereas I. H. tells a story of one Giles Rose who came when we were in discourse whom he saith is a poor deluded man that was one of the first that turned Quakers in Lin and that it hath been said he objected sometimes against them some dishonest carriages between some of their speakers and a woman of them c. The people hearing him â—he said Giles being at a distance like a kinde of a distracted man I. H. saith and Thomas Moore said to me see the fruit of thy Ministry George thy principles are ready to lead men into distraction and he saith the people laught c. To which I say you may here see the malice and wickedness of the men in laying down as they eount them his words as an evidence against us whom they count but as a distracted man to render us odious to the world and to make them laugh at us which so often I. H. hath boasted in and yet he hath some of this relation touching what the said Giles should say but by report of him and not all from his own mouth as appears which sheweth himself like one of the Prophets enemies who said Report and we will Report Ier. 20.10 and the things he hath given forth against us as in that distracted mans name as they count him are lies and slanders and will be the burthen of the inventers and spreaders of them and as for that man vvhom this Horne brings as a Witnesse against us he vvas for some time convinced of the truth but running from his measure into his vain imaginations friends disovvned him and then he turued into envy sgainst us and so it is no matter vvhat he and such as beleeve him say against us the truth in vvhich vve live and our principles vvhich are not any ground of distraction as J.H. and T.M. accuse them shall stand for ever over all our enemies vvho hate the truth and over all vvho turn into Judas vvay to perdition But J.H. vvho thus hast shevved thy venome in spreading lies and slanders against us doest thou think if I vvould go about it that I could not lay open much vvickednesse and ranting carriages that have bin among you and several of thy company and tell you of your Loves and of a vvoman and her levvdnesse that vvas highly set up as a Preacher or Instructer among you and several others But I had rather be a sufferer by you then shame you if you do not give me the more occasion by your malice and slanders against the Truth to lay you further open And now to Horns other part of his charge in his Argument where he saith thus viz. They that undermine and destroy the hope of the Gospell preached by the Apostles they are preachers of another Gospell or doctrine then the Apostles preached and are to be accounted accursed and not received or followed This I charge you Quakers with and you G. W. by name in that you say the coming of Christ at which the dead in Christ are to be Raised is already past and over c. I Answer Here J. H. Thou hast charged us exceeding falsely and belyed us shamefully for we never said that the coming of Christ at which the dead in Christ are to be raised is already past and over but that the saints remained unto the coming of the Lord as the Apostle saith we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord according to our words which thou hast falsely and slanderously grounded thy charge upon which are against thee and Thomas Moore where we said as for that 1 Thes 4.15 Concerning the coming of the Lord from heaven which these men aforesaid would blindly put afar off as to a coming of Christ with flesh and bones the Apostle saith we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep so that coming of Christ the saints who then were alive remained unto it To which John Horn saith judge good people is Christ yet come are the dead bodies of the saints raised and the living changed and all caught up together in the air to meet him If these men be not such as we are to avoid and account accursed who be To which I say thus hast thou wrested our words and made a false construction of them contrary to the end and intent of them for what we said was against your imaginations who look carnally for the coming of Christ as many of the world do of whom Christ said I go away and the world seeth me no more Iohn 14. And I vindicated these said words of ours mentioned and witnessed to the severall comings of Christ as he was revealed in the saints from glory to glory because thou opposed these words to render us odious and I never denied the coming of the Lord from Heaven when he shall bring with him them that sleep in Jesus and raise the dead in Christ nor ever said I that was already over and past as thou hast belied me for when I urged the Apostles remaining till the coming of the Lord as in 1 Thes 4.15.17 Thou to render me odious urged ver 13.14.16 Which I never denied nor doubted of her and so I slighted disputing about it though thou would have made it disputable against me to make good thy charge and slander against me and what confusion would thou charge upon us as to say the coming of Ghrist at which the dead in him are to be raised is already past and over as if that which is yet to be vvere over and past vvith this non-sense thou might as vvell have charged the Saints as us who remained unto the coming of the Lord and yet did not prevent them vvhich were asleep from being raised though I
not in power or authority to persecute me as if he were some great tyrannizing Magistrate manifesting himself to be in Cain's Way So whether this Priest Horne doth intend with his Hearers to proceed lawfully against me ot not the People may easily judge for which I leave him to the Lord to be judged for his malice herein And here also you may see that J.H. was not able to tear nor woory me nor to stop my mouth with his words as falsly he would boast seeing he is fain to encourage them in power the people to hinder me from speaking And this is the beastly shift these silly Priests are fain to flee to when their Gospel will not defend them neither can their God give them victory by it And J.H. saith As for this People the quakers unless they see and turn from their evil Way God's hand will be against them and that their root is rottenness and shall be dried and perish he saith To which I say J. Horne hath but here judged us in his malice and prophesied from the envy of his own heart and we doubt not but his Prophesie will prove false and come to pass upon himself and many such lying Prophets against us as he is there is in the World and if our root were rottenness how is it we we are such a heavy judgement burthen and torment to him and such deceivers as he is And how is it we encrease and grow so much in the power of God that our Borders are so much enlarged that We are a burthen to our Enemies such false Prophets and blind Watchmen as J H. is who with his Brother T.M. hath acknowledged us to be a heavy Judgement that God hath ordered to punish them for their neglect of Christ and the abuse of his Truth and yet since he hath boasted of their being able to woory and tear me and now accuseth our root to be rottenness which is as much as if they had said They can woory and tear the heavy Judgement that God hath ordered to them and that the Root of that judgement is rottenness according to this Priest H orn's own Words and herein hath he sadly blasphemed against God who is the root of his own Judgements one of whose Judgements we are ordered by him to punish J.H. and such as he is for their neglect of Christ and the abuse of his Truth and therefore we must do the Work that God hath sent us for And what presumption is it of J.H. to perswade his Hearers not to permit us to speak nor to liften to us but to account us accursed when we are the heavy Judgement that God ordered to punish them for their abuse of his truth vvhich is all one as if he had said Permit not God to speak by his Judgement to us nor listen to the Judgement that God hath ordered to punish us for our our faults but account it accursed And thus his blasphemy and hardness of heâ—rt is manifest like theirs vvho repented not of their evil deeds spoken of in Rev. 16.9 but blasphemed against the God of Heaven vvhen they vvere in torment under the Plagues of God vvhose Judgements are all righteous upon the disobedient J. H. saith The King Christ shall rejoice in God and every one that swears by or confesseth him shall glory Psal 63.10 Let them alone neither abuse them with incivilities c. To which I say If every one that swears by Christ shall glory then must the Drunkards and Liars and all such prophane persons as swearby him glory and so this doctrine of his tends to the incouraging of Drunkards and profane persons in swearing which is against the Doctrine of Christ who put an end to the Oaths and swearing which was under the Lavv where there vvas svvearing by the Lord for Christ and the Apostle commanded not to svvear at all and he that transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ hath not And if people must let us alone and not abuse us vvith incivilities then J. H. and his company ought to permit us to speak and he ought not encourage them to persecute us as he hath done a little before thus he still discovers his ovvn confusion whereby he hath so long abused the Truth of God and been fighting against the heavie Judgment of God vvhich is his due as he hath done vvho by his carriage and Doctrine hath encouraged drunkards scoffers and svvearers in their vvickedness Thus all that come to the Truth may see hovv evill men and seducers vvax vvorse and vvorse And to these words in J. H. his Pamphlet which are thus laid down viz. Our Lord Jesus teaching his Disciples to pray to God as their Father and in the first place to breathe or desire the hallowing or sanctifying of Gods Name the coming of his Kingdom and that his will might be done in earth as it is in heaven and yet teaching them to pray for forgiveness of their trespasses doth he not strongly and plainly imply that even such as are the children of God and so born of God and that have their hearts through his grace set for the glory of God's Name above all things and so for the coming of his Kingdom and the doing of his will have sins and trespasses against God of which they need forgiveness I answer Men may call God Father as he is the Creator of all Mal. 2 10. before they are born of God or before the birth which is from above be brought forth in them which is indued with power from on high and before the Disciples were endued with that power or come to that state they were to pray for the forgiveness of their trespasses Now that which was in the Trespasses was not the Seed in them which the Promise was to neither in that state was the Seed brought forth to reign while the first Birth or trespasser against God which the Law takes hold upon was alive and acting them and no man can truly call God Father but by the Holy Ghost and that which called him Father in the Disciples of Christ when they were begotten to the belief of the Truth was begotten of him and they praying in that as being begotten before they were in the statof him that is born of God as mentioned in 1 Joh. 3 they received what they asked and so came to have their trespasses for given as they forgave others theirs and to inherit the Kingdom of God and his Power which they prayed for Col. 1.14 Rev. 12 10. In which Kingdom there is no sinne nor unclean thing can come and they that are come to the childrens state that are born of God and abide in Christ they sin not and the childrens state must be witnessed before the Kingdom be inherited also there may be children begotten and not in that which is born of God nor in the Kingdome if they abide not in the Seed such as Paul travelled for that Christ might be formed in
THE QUAKERS NO Deceivers Or the Management of an unjust Charge against them Confuted BEING A BRIEF RETURN to a Pamphlet Intituled The Quakers Proved Deceivers and such as the People ought not to listen to or follow but to account Accursed in the Management of a Charge given out against them to that effect By John Horne who calls Himself Preacher of the Gospel at South-Lin in Norfolke who is a chief Teacher among the People called Mooreans or Universalists Who hath given forth a pretended and imperfect Relation of a Discourse which was between him and George Whitehead in the Chancel of South-Lin wherin he hath falsely made his boast how that he made good his said Charge against G.W. before some Hundreds of people but many unprejudiced persons who heard the Discourse between them can witnesse against the said I.H. as a vain Boaster in his Pride of a Victory where he had it not And herein iâ— the said J. Hoâ—ne proved to be such a one as he hath falsely charged the Quakâ—rs proved to be and â—is false Doctrines touching several things of much Concernment Discovereâ— and his slanders and perverting the Truth reproved and the Truth of God cleared For the Information of the People called Universalists and other Professors and People See PSAL. 7.14 15. By one who is counted a Deceiver yet true George Whitehead LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black-Spread-Eagle near the West-end of Pauls 1660. â—Lessed are they that are not offended at the truth 〈…〉 â—bide in the love of it as it is made manifest 〈…〉 who live in the life and power of God 〈…〉 â—â—iâ—h fathomes over and comprehends the sub 〈…〉 Sâ—rpent which greatly appears these our dâ—yâ—◠〈…〉 the seed of God and the wisdoms and power of Gâ—â— bâ—ing manifest in a large measure in his Servants which gives them dominion in the life and innocency to reign over the haters of the truth and wisdom to discover all their subtilty and crafts this is their torment and vexation and the more they strive against the truth which we are in the more they are drowned in their confusion and overwhelmed in their darkness Therefore let us whom the Lord hath called into his work go on in the name and power of our God with boldness and confidence in him in this day of the Lambs battel for the Lord is with us and it is in his strength that we are made able to tread over our enemies and to trample over all their malignity and deceits which they appear in against the truth of our God which is dear unto us and after many contests and much opposition which we have passed thorow and met with from the deceivers of many sorts in this age who are of the Dragons Armie who like their Leader are wroth with the seed of the Woman which keeps the Commands of God I have of late time met with one Iohn Horn one of the same Army who hath shewed his rage and madness as much against the truth both in his Books and Papers as any that ever I met with and his torment being begun his rage and malice is the greater notwithstanding by many he is had in reputation and set up beyond the Priests of the Nation but hath foamed out his shame more then many of them The occasion of my last disputing with him on the 13 day of the 11th moneth 59 was his posting up many Papers publikely in Lin wherein he charged the Quakers to be Deceivers and such as the people ought not to hear or follow but to account accursed and said that he should be ready to make it good as and when thereto lawfully called Upon which I several times for the Truth sake sent to him to come forth in publike before I could get him so out for he would have had us met at his house or at a friends house of his which was not convenient for such a meeting as was to be but at length he proffered to meet me in the Chancel in the Steeple house end where we met and after I had heard him speak a pretty time against us and had some liberty to answer to some of the chief things he objected against us we had some discourse about several weighty things as freedom from sin â—nd the new-born state the redemption of the body and the coming of Christ and the cheif thing I. H. drove at was to make people beleeve That there is no man living upon earth that sinneth not or that could be perfectly freed from sin in this life and that the Prophâ—â—s and Apostles had sin in them so long as they lâ—ved and so he made War for his Fathers Kingdome which is upheld by sin as much as he could as the rest of the deceivers chiefly do and in the power of the Lord I speake in Vindication of the truth to clear it from his false aspersions and slanders as much as I might have liberty to for I. H. and some of his Company were very uncivil towards me in many of them clamâ—uring at once against me but the Lord appeared with me and his truth which then reached his witness in the Consciences of many and many heard me with soberness which as appears was a grief to my adversary and as is probable was some cause of his publishing an imperfect Relation of the dispute in Print to render me and the truth odious and in his pride to make people beleeve he had gotten the victory or maistery touching which his vain boasting and deceit is hereafter discovered and the Truth cleared And now from sufficient grounds and tryal I affirm and can through the strength of God make good these things against the said J. Horn and charge them against him as followeth c. 1. That he is out of the life and steps of the true Ministers and in the steps and practises of Deceivers and so is a Hypocrite and no Minister of Christ who being a Parish-priest is guilty of the Priests iniquity in many things whom he hath declared against 2. That he upholds a dead and formal Worship like the World whereunto people are not called by the Spirit of truth for it is not the true Worship so that he keeps people from the life of God his Ministry being both dead formal and corrupt 3. That his Ministry vvherein he contends for sin pleading that none can be perfectly free from it in this life is Antichristian and both against the commands promises and works of God and tends to the making both the preaching and praying of Christ and the Saints ineffectual 4. And that he the said I. H. like a cholerick envious man against the truth of God and his people is a forger of lies a false accâ—â—â—â— a slanderer and so is one of the Dragons Army who was wroth with the woman that brought forth the man childe and the remnant of her seed that kept the commands of God These 〈◊〉 last charges against him are hereafter