Conversations in Times past in the Lust of our Flâ—sh following the Desires of the Flesh and of the Mind and were by Nature the Children of Wrath as well as others now all may see how this man wrests the Scriptures to prove their dark Imaginations concerning Children being in a State of Condemnation before they are born now see and consider whether Children before they are born can commit such Things as this Scripture saith that these Ephesians were guilty of before they were converted unto God he brings Rom. 3.9 again 9.33 and Tit. 3.5 6. where all may see whether these Scriptures speak any Thing of Children before they are born being guilty of Sin which he hath a Mind to strain them to but it 's plain to the contrary and speaks of the States of Men and Women and not of Children whereby his Folly is made manifest And this further I ask these men which would have Children before they are born to be Children of Wrath because of their Fathers Sins which they are innocent of where that Scripture is that saith that God ever condemned the Righteous or innocent for the Wicked's sake as they darkly say that God condemns the Innocent Children for their Fathers Sins nay the contrary is easily to be proved that God hath and doth many Times spare the wicked for the sake of the Righteous which is far from destroying the guiltless for the guilty sake so that the Judge of the whole Earth doth right Things Gen. 18.25 So the Way of the Lord is equal who sheweth Mercy without Respect of Persons to all that fear his Name and obey his Grace and his Judgments are just upon all that rebel against the Appearance of his Grace and hate the Light that manifestly shines upon all so that Man's Destruction is of himself for want of receiving Christ the Son of his Love into his Heart who is come a Light into the World and is knocking at every Ones Doâ—r for the awakening of them out of their Sins and that he might purge their Consciences from Dead Works and renew their Minds and enlarge their Hearts to serve the living and true God And as conâ—â—rning Children before they are born they are doubtless in a State of Innocency and after they are born until they come to that Age as to understand Good and Evil then choosing the Evil and refusing knowingly that which is Good that contracts the Guilt upon their Conscience whereby they come under the State of Reproof for it and Condemnation if they continue in that which is Evil which is just upon them for their own Sins and not for their Fathers which they never committed which agrees with the Word of the Lord spoken by his Prophet Jer. 31.30 That every one shall dye for his own Sins he that eateth his Teeth shall be set on Edge so as the Lord saith and complains of a rebellious Generation As the Children grew up so they went from me So that it is plain that People bring forth Fruit according to the Seed which they receive into their Hearts and yield up the Strength of their Desires unto they that receive the good Seed that God hath sown and yield up the Strength of their Desires unto it they bring forth Fruits unto Holiness which Seed Christ saith is sown in all Sorts of Grounds but now who doth not watch unto this blessed Seed and Grace of God the Appearance of which is unto all without respect of Persons but like the Sluggard slumbers away the Time and doth not watch unto the Light of Christ Jesus to lead them keep them preserve them out of the Wicked One's Snares in them the Wicked One sows his Seed which grows up and they in that bring forth Evil Fruits and thus we see the Scriptures fulfilled according as it is written Luke 6.45 A Good Man out of the Good Treasure that is in his Heart bringeth forth Good Things and the Evil Man out of the Evil Treasure of his Heart bringeth forth Evil Things And therefore let every one now examine themselves and see what Root bares them for it is Fruits of Holiness that the Lord looks for and requires ar the Hand of every one which he hath made and given Life and Breath unto and for that End that all may bring forth Fruit to his Glory he hath given unto every man a Manifestation of his own Spirit to profit withal as saith the Apostle 1 Cor. 12.7 and a Measure of his own Light to be a Guide unto them which Spirit and Light appears within Man and Woman whereby that saying is fulfilled which the Apostle speaâ—â— of Rom. chap. 1. vers 19. That which may be known of God is manifest in them And now let none be discouraged by these Blind Guides who say That the Grace of God did not appear unto All Men and now say That it doth not agree with their Rule of Faith to speak and to believe as the Apostle believed and spake as you may see under their own Hands And thus God hath cleared the Innocent from their Slanders and I have faithfully Detected their False Doctrines and asserted the Truth as it is in Jesus who am a Servant to all in the Truth S. Cater THE END
it appears how thou contradictest thy self pag. 8. Thou pretendest Grief for thy Country-men who sayest thou flee from the Antichrist the Whore of Babylon and falls into the Pit of the Damnable Heresie of this Antichrist the Quakers Now can any be led by a Damnable Principle and they at the same time not in a State of Condemnation O gross Darkness And doth not Christ say This is the Condemnation that Light is come into the World and Men love Darkness And doth not the Scripture say He that believeth not is condemned already But saith F. H. There is none in a state of Damnation until with Dives they lift up their Eyes in Hell O great Confusion and Contradiction and contrary to the Scripture of Truth Pag. 13. F. H. saith He brings me in reading the Grace of God that brought Salvation hath appeared unto Men leaving out the word All which I testifie in God's Sight to my best Knowledge is utterly Falshood Rep. A pitiful Shift indeed to cover thy Deceit but altogether too short to do it What dost thou and thy Brother Oddey cry out against me for belying thee in this Matter in saying thou readst it wrong Tit. 2.11 and left out the word All and now bringest no Witness to prove me a Lyar nay far short of that for thou hast not here affirmed it thy self that thou read the Scripture as it is but sayst To the best of thy Knowledge thou didst but yet while thou art giving an Account of the Matter thou tellst us That thou dost not use to read that Scripture as it is But Francis in the Light that that thou hatest art thou comprehended and thy Subtilty seen and thy Deceit made manifest And I tell thee again I can prove it to thy Face that to be true which I have charged thee withal in that Matter although thou hast willingly forgotten it and further it appears by thy own words which thou hast here published in Print that what I have said of thee is true whereby there needs no further Witness then what I have from thee and thy Brother Oddey under your Own Hands Pag. 13. Read his own words which are these whereby all may see what Cause this man hath to Rail at me for saying the Truth that he left out the word All excepting this they would not have their Hearers and others know what wicked Perverters they are of the holy Scriptures pag. 13. lin 15. his words are these Now take All Men here for Every Particular I have thought it not agreeing to the Analogy and Rule of Faith to say The Grace of God that brings Salvation hath appeared or shined on All Men. Rep. But Francis what Faith is thine that doth not allow thee to believe the Scriptures of Truth to be true or sound as they are declared by the Holy Ghost that dwelt in them that spake them as it is written 2 Pet. 1.21 For the Prophecy came not in Old Time by the Will of Man but Holy Men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost May not I and others that read thy words justly judge thee out of thy own Mouth that thou art the Man and art in that State that thou sayest of the Quakers and canst not prove it neither by our Words or Writings but thou art apostatized from the true and living Faith that was once delivered to the Saints For the Apostle saith Titus 2.11 For the Grace of God that brings Salvation hath appeared unto all men and further it is said 1 Tim. 2.4 where it is said God would have all men to be saved and come to the Knowledge of the Truth And thou sayst that it doth not stand with thy Rule of Faith whereby it appears that thou art not of the Apostles Faith for if thou wast in their Faith thou wouldst own and believe their words to be more certain to be the Mind of God then thy Thoughts But I tell thee thou Merchant of Babylon Thy Corrupt Thoughts have deceived thee in this weighty Matter and the Enemy of thy Soul hath blinded thee as he hath in several other things concerning us But how should we expect better from thee but Wresting and Perverting our Words when thou art so much in the dark as to tell us in print That to read and take the Apostles words as they are spoken doth not agree with thy Rule of Faith whereby it plainly appears thou hast not the Faith of God's Elect for if thou hadst thou wouldst be of the same Mind thâ—â—â—â—ey were in Pag. 13. F. H. saith these words I say in the Fear of Jehovah all you that believe or fear no New or Strange Gods no False Christ not this False Christ of the Quakers that Light that is in all men Rep. It was alwayes the Way and Practice of Deceivers in all Ages to labour to keep the People in Darkness and Blindness and ignorant of the Appearance of the true and living God as God is pleased to appear and manifest himself unto the Sons and Daughters of men for the saving of their Souls and the Way by which they carry on their Ungodly Wâ—rks was the Way that this our Adversary and Enemy of the Appearance of the true God and Jesus Christ in our Day now taketh whereby he is manifeâ—ted by his Fruits to be in the Steps of his Fore-fatherâ— who envy d the lust who said that which was really True was False and that which was God was a Devil and that whiâ—h was of God and came from God to be of the Devil whereby they stirred up the People that followed them and believed them to envy the Prophets and in their Envy â—age and Fury the Priests had stirred them up unto to persecute Christ although the Scriptures bear Testimony very plainly that he was the true Messiah and Saviour of the World yet they would call him a Deceiver and those that were Followers of him and Believers in his Name deceived by him and so said of him He deceived the People And thus doth F. H. now who treads in the Steps of his Fore Fathers the High Pâ—iests who calls the True Christ a False Christ and those that believe in his Name and are led and guided by his Heavenly and Spiritual Light which is the Way of Life to be deceived and Deceivers F. H. saith pag. 13. towards the latter-end of his Book And know Deceivers though you tell us a Thousand Times over that you own Jesus of Nazareth till you repent and renounce youâ— False Christ the Light in all men till you CAST THAT YOUR IDOL TO THE BATS AND MOLES WE WILL LOOK UPON YOU AS DECEIVERS Rep. Herein thou hast manifested thy self to be of that Generation who said to Christ Come doâ—â—â—â—â—m the Cross and we will believe thee and commanded the Apostles that they should preach no more in the Name of Jesus And thou sayst Till we cast away the Christ which is the Light in all men thou wilt
Odious and this thou knowest we can prove to thy Face and shalâ— dâ— it if the Lâ—râ— give â—s an Opportunity And now read what is said in the Holy Scriptures of Christ which thou nor all the cunning Crafts-men that the old Serpent makes use of to with-stand the Universal Appearance of God's Grace and Light to all men in this the Day of his Love can do Joh. 1.4 In him is Life and the Life was the Light of Men Vers 9. Which was sent to bear witness of that Light that was the True Light that lighteth every Man that cometh into the World which is spoken of Christ 2 Cor. 4.6 God that commanded the Light to shine out of Darkness hath shined in our Hearts to give the Light of the Knowledge of the Glory of God in the Face of Iesus and this is the True God and Christ that we believe in and turn People unto who hath shined by the Power and Coming of his Heavenly and Divine Light into our Hearts and Souls whereby he hath made us to inherit Comfort whereby we see the Scripture is fulfilled The People that sate in Darkness have seen a Great Light and those that sate in the Regions and Shadow of Death unto them Light is sprung up Mat. 4.16 whereby we see the fulfilling of the Prophet Isaiah's Prophecy Isa 60.19 The Sun shall be no more thy Light by Day nor for Brightness shall the Moon give Light unto thee but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting Light and thy God thy Glory and this Light is the Way that the Holy Men of God travailed in though thee and thy Fore-fathers know it not saith Solomon The Path of the Just is as the shining Light c. Prov. chap. 4. ver 18. Isa chap. 2. ver 5. O House of Jacob come ye and let us walk in the Light of the Lord and Christ saith I am the Way and there is none comes to the Father but by me who saith also I am the Light of the World and this is the Way that the true Ministers of Christ turned People unto and were made Ministers of Acts 26.23 to open their Eyes to turn them from Darkness to Light c. that by it they might see their Way out of Sin and Evil and to know their Feet guided in the Way of Peace Luke 1.79 which Light and Truth was that which the Prophets prayed for Psalm 43.3 O send out thy Light and thy Truth let them lead me let them bring me unto thy Holy Hill and to thy Tabernacle Psalm 36.19 For with thee is the Foundation of Life in thy Light shall we see Light And now thou that makest it thy Business to cry out against the Quakers Light whose Light is God and Christ and the Truth and Way to Life to so many as walk therein and are guided thereby for this I can say and my Conscience beareth me witness that I never preached nor declared any other Light to be the Way of Life then the true God and Jesus Christ which the Scriptures of Truth largely witness to be so as I have here proved and thou that say'st this God and Christ that lighteth all Men that the Quakers preach is a God that neither you nor your Fathers have known whereby you have manifested your gross Darkness and Ignorance both of the true God and Jesus Christ whom to know is Life Eternal and if I should say no more of this thy railing envious Piece of Confusion which thou and thy Brother Oddey have sent abroad you are largely made manifest to be in that State which you say the Quakers are in who preach another God another Jesus and are of another Spirit then what the Prophets and Apostles were of who said God is Light and Christ is the true Light that lighteth every Man that cometh into the World and this the God that thou say'st neither you nor your Fathers have known and I do tell you that I do believe that you speak Truth in that and do judge you out of your own Mouthes to be in their Steps that crucified Christ of whom he said These Things they do because they know not the Father nor me And this I can truly say notwithstanding all your railing Words and unsavoury Speeches concerning me I desire that the Lord may give you Repentance of your Abuses offered against Christ and his Appearance that so you may come to have the Benefit of his Request unto his Father Father forgive them for they know not what they do for I hope your Envy manifested against us and the Truth which we profess is more out of Ignorance then Wilfulness which if so I desâ—re the Lord may open your Eyes that you may come to see what you are doing of Page 3. thou say'st That thou offeredst to prove that the Quakers preached another Jesus and had received another Spirit and another Gospel then what was preached by the Apostles Rep. We acknowledge thou said'st so then and now tellest us as much in thy Book but thou didst not go about to prove it then neither hast thou done it now so that it is sooner said then proved and thy pittiful Shift to evaâ—e the proving of what thou hast promised is already in Print which was to ask us whether we owned the true Christ yea or nay to which then I did freely confess and have mâ—re largely now confest my Faith and Belief and Hope of Salvation to be in the true God and Jesus Christ whereby it appears thy Accusation against me and the rest of my Brethren is false and that you are the Men that preach another Gospel and are out of the Faith that was once delivered unto the Saints whose Faith stood in the Light and Power of God which was and is the Author of the true Faith and the Finisher in all those that continue therein which Faith gives Victory over the World and gives Power and Courage to follow the Lord as faithfully and confess Christ as openly in Times of Suffering and Persecution as in Times of the greatest Freedom and Liberty which Faith hath been made manifest by our Fruits to be in and amongst us ever since we have been a People whereby it appears that good Daniel's Spirit is revealed in amongst us who would not so much as shut his Windows to shun Persecution but prayed as openly as he did at other Times Page 3. thou say'st One of the Quakers said to a Friend of thine that the Body of Christ consumed in the Grave as others do And Francis why didst not thou set down the Name of that One thou speakest of whereby we might have known who it had been for until thou dost I do charge it upon thee as a false Accusation as knowing it to be none of us that said so neither doth it agree with our Principles and thou knowest that I have confessed otherwise in Print to thy Shame Again page 3. F. H. saith Although I have
not believe us which Christ is the true Christ that lighteth all men and witnessed so to be by the Scriptures of Truth spoken by the Prophets and Jesus Christ himself and the holy Apostles which I have before largely proved and in whose Light the Church of Christ had Fellowship one with another 1 John 1.7 And it s said by the Apostle That they that say they have Fellowship with God and walk in Darkness they lye and do not the Truth amongst whom I number thee who hast manifested so much Envy against the Light and the Servants of it and tells us until we cast that away namely Christ the Light which is the Guide and Way to Heaven as before I have proved you will look upon us as Deceivers that we cannot help but I say the more is the pity that thou or any man should be so overcome and led captive by the Power of Darkness that you will not own us nor our Testimony unless we will deny the true God and Jesus Christ I tell thee Francis thou hast set us too dear a Price for us to give you for your Approbation of us nay although you had as much to proffer as your Master the power of Darkness proffered Christ if he would fall down and worship him I hope neither I nor any one amongst us who loves the Light and believes therein and hath seen and felt how good the Lord hath been unto our Souls thereby shall ever so deny the Lord that bought them as in casting away so precious a pearl as this Heavenly and Divine Light of Christ which hath ever been and yet is to all them that believe in it and no man ever was nor can be truly happy without they believe in it and obey it which thou sayest we must cast away but I tell thee that if thou dost expect it thou art mistaken and thy Eyes will sink in their Holes and thy carnal Imaginations will rot in thy Head before thou seest that That ever a People should turn from the Light and Truth of God made manifest in our Hearts and Consciences for the purifying of our Hearts and saving of our Souls to turn unto your dark Imaginations who are such bitter Enemies unto the Light which gives the Knowledge of God and r veals the Mysteries of Life unto all them that believe therein 2 Cor. 4.6 Now I testifie That Widdowhood and Loss of Children must be the Portion of all you Professors as it hath been ever since we have been a People to bear Testimony unto the blessed and spiritual Appearance of God in the Light of his dear Son And I am not without Hope that some that are late turned from you and your dark Imaginations are and will be the more confirmed in this precious Truth unto which their Minds are turned and that those that yet sit under your Dark and Confused Teaching who hate the Light and are Reproachers and Railers against the Lovers of it may thereby be awakened to consider what they are a doing in following such Teachers who are against the True Light and Universal Love of God held forth to all men thereby for there is but Light and Darkness and they that hate the Light must needs be in Darkness And the Apostle John saith They that walk in Darkness they lye and do not the Truth Now I would have all People take notice that F. H. doth not Rail against us for Darkness and express his Envy against us as being led by the power of Darkness for he intitles us that and saith the Quakers God and Christ as you may see all along in his Book the Light that is in All Men which the Scripture witnesseth to be the True God and Jesus Christ which I have before proved by the Scriptures only this I would have all People take notice of which I have hinted at before which is the Practice of him and all such Blind Gâ—ides as he is to call that which is True False and that which is really True he calls False and that which is the True Light he calls Darkness For there is nothing that giveth Light to every Man but the True God and Christ and thus he puts Light for Darkness whereby it appears according to the Scriptures he is under the Wo Isa 5.20 And now I shall take a little Notice of what Joseph Oddey saith page 14. who writes to one Samuel Cater a Deceiver amongst the Quakers who at that Meeting at Thriploe And for what he hath said now in this Paper he deserveth just Reproof for his rude and unsavoury Words which do not become a Man that professeth himself to be a Minister of Christ Rep. And now J. O. I do tell thee that the Light of Christ tâ—at I with many more have received teacheth us not to render Evil for Evil nor Railing for Railing but contrarywise to speak the Truth in Soberness and with sound Words to demonstrate and declare the Truth as it is in Jesus And now thou hast called me a Deceiver which is a false Accusation and thou might'st better have left it until thou hadst proved me so which thou nor thy Brother could not do although promised to do it and thou called'st us a Generation of Vipers and said'st Thou would'st prove us so to be before you went away and did'st not then do it so that it appears it is an easier Matter to cast Reproaches and Slanders upon a People then it is to prove it when you have done But Joseph thou manifests by thy Fruit what Spirit rules thy Heart for saith the Scripture An Evil Man out of the Evil Treasure of his Heart brings forth Evil Things from that cometh Railing and Evil-speaking and Backbiting Page 14. he pretends to examine me with what Face I could say that his Brother Holdcraft did not read the Scripture right Tit. 2.11 The Grace of God that brings Salvation hath appeared unto Men and that he left out the Word ALL and impudently said it was not in the Greek can this be a bare mistake in thy self and others Rep. I say no it is no Mistake we do still affirm the same to be true of him as we have published and there are three of our Names to it and many more will witness it to your Faces to be true if an Opportunity be afforded and further there was a Man that at the same time when Francis said that the Word ALL was not in the Greek as it is in our Books reproved him and asked him why he brought his Bible hither if it were wrong translated a Man that stood by as a Hearer well known in the Country to be a Man of Estate and Credit who was not then nor is now one with us in Principle or Practice Page 14. How J. O proves that I have belyed his Brother Holdcraft saith he I stood next him on the one side had my Hearing through God's Goodness I think I may say as well as you could this