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A92287 The reasons of the Dissenting Brethren against the third proposition, concerning presbyterial government· Humbly presented. Westminster Assembly; Goodwin, Thomas, 1600-1680.; Westminster Assembly (1643-1652). Answer of the Assembly of Divines unto the reasons of the seven Dissenting Brethren, against the proposition of divers congregations being united under one Presbyteriall government. 1645 (1645) Wing R573; Thomason E27_14; ESTC R209981 37,798 45

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of Jerusalem to have sent chosen men to carry the Letters and withall to shew the grounds of those their judgements by word of mouth ver. 23. 27. 31. This needed not if their own Elders had been present and so had been to have returned and if they were sent as Messengers from the Synod then to all the Churches as well as to Antioch and why doe they then goe no further then unto Antioch ver. 33. Yea and although Paul and Barnabas delivered those results to all the Cities yet as it should seem accidentally and not principally intended they goe not on purpose chiefely to deliver those decrees but ver. 36. of chap. 15. it was Pauls motion upon other grounds to go visit the Churches in every City where they had Preached and so but occasionally delivered these Decrees Chap. 16. 4. So as they came to them not as sent in a mandatory way as to Churches subject to that Synod by a Synodical Law as such Canons are used to bee sent but as the judgement onely of this Church and the Apostles delivered them for their edification And in the third place If there were any further authority or jurisdiction in their Decrees it was from the Apostles who were present and concurred in it and who had power over all the Churches and accordingly though the Elders in the whole Church were present and joyned with the Apostles Quantum in se to consent and approve their Decrees with that severall respective kinde of judgment proper unto them yet all the authority put forth over these Churches was that transcendent authority of the Apostles which is not now left in all the Elders of the world joyned together and that therefore these Decrees made and the decision of these questions here were by infallible Apostolicall authority and to that end they subjoyned that Apostolicall Seale It seemed good to us and the Holy Ghost And although the ordinary Elders yea and the whole Church joyned in this yet but according to their Measure Analogy and Proportion of their faith even as in writing some Epistles Timothy and Silvanus joyned with Paul but yet Paul onely wrote Apostolically and the authority in them is looked at as his or else because perhaps they having the Holy Ghost falne on them through the Apostles Doctrine then delivered which was then usuall perswading their hearts unanimously though afore dissenting as ver. 25. to accord in that respect they might speak this in such a sense that no assembly of men wanting Apostolicall presence and instruction may now speak And although it may bee objected That then this Letter and these Decrees should bee formall Scripture and so binde us still it is answered That they are Scripture and written for our learning and if the case were the same upon which they obliged them then viz. matter of offence that then they would binde us now but the things being enjoyned but as {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} things of a superadded casuall necessity and not absolute in case of offence onely and not simply for the things themselves therefore now the necessity being ceased the obligation ceaseth yet so as the equity of the rule and ground these were commanded upon to abstain from things that will offend our brethren doth hold in like cases to the end of the world And last of all there is no act of such authority and government put forth in it which the Proposition intendeth which will appeare if wee either consider the occasion and rise of it or the issue and result of it It was not a set or stated meeting by common agreement of the Churches but Antioch sends to Jerusalem unknowne to them there are no summons sent to send up Delinquents nor can wee finde these disturbers are sent to Jerusalem to bee censured by those Ecclesiasticall pupunishments in which Government doth properly lye and consist The subject matter sent to them for their decision was meerely matter of Doctrine about this question verse 2. and about this word verse 5. Namely whether the Ceremoniall Law was to bee observed Concerning which they wrote their judgements dogmatically which they were called to doe being thus sent unto Neither doth it argue that it was more then to determine this question doctrinally they came up for because that Paul and Barnabas could have decided that before being themselves Apostles and that therefore their comming up was for discipline against Delinquents for as the case stood they listened not to Paul and Barnabas as Apostles but pretended the judgment of the other Apostles For indeed Paul and Barnabas did declare their judgements the {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} or contention ver. 3. being attributed unto them as contending against the false Teachers for the Truth and so as even the Church of Antioch rested not in their decision Otherwise Paul and Barnabas might have as Apostles censured those Delinquents without comming to Jerusalem as wel as by Apostolique authority have decided the question For Apostolicall power extended to Discipline as well as Doctrine If it bee said That even doctrinally to deliver the truth when it is done by a company of Elders hath authority or power in it as when Christ said Goe and teach all power is given unto mee It is granted an Authoritie exercised in doctrine and so to bee in Synods but yet not Jurisdiction which the Proposition intends which is when doctrines are delivered sub paena under the penaltie of that Ecclesiasticall punishment of Excommunication if not received One Minister alone hath a dogmaticall authoritie as a Minister to rebuke exhort and yet acts of Jurisdiction are not his alone but of others conjoyned with him Neither secondly doth the titles given to these results of theirs argue a Jurisdiction in that they are called {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Act. 16. 4. For although the word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} is used for an Imperiall decree Luke 2. 1. yet but rarely and more commonly as Stephanus and Budaeus observe for doctrine opinion in matters morall or speculative as Platonis Dogma c. and thence is translated to import the Judgements of Divines given in matters Theologicall although delivered with certaintie And so the using of this word implyeth the subject to have beene doctrinall onely and so delivered And further the subject matter of this decision being about rules and ceremonies and the not observation of them the Dogma is elegantly and perhaps on purpose given to these Apostolicall Canons by way of opposition and contradiction to those that taught and observed such rules who are said {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} in so doing Colossians 2. 20. being led away by the false Dogmata or Heterodox theses of false Teachers that enjoyned them And for that other word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} translated ordained it plainely notes out but this that these