mighty reason a minore ad majus which words indeed I vnderstand not is this If say you our Lord Iesus his disciples and people did not separate from thire Sinagogues and assemblies that vvere in faith and maners more defectiue then ours are much lesse ought they to separate from our assembles vvherein all the grounds of Christian religion are soundly held and professed you might haue added and but fevv practise neither of preists nor people in vvhom couetousnes vvrath enuie and contention doe daily abound many thousands neither knowing nor regarding to knovv vvhat true faith meaneth and for their manners vvhich you vvould seeme so much to commend let the manners even of that Parish assembly vvherein your selfe did of late exercise your spirituall authority in vain as also the mānerly conditions and conversation of almost all in generall testifie hovv true this your bold affirmation of their manners is and vvithall let the Readers minde that although you boast of all the grounds of christian religion yet it is but held and professed not practised among you so that it may seeme you beleeue also that to hould and professe vvithout obedience is sufficient for the salvation of the professors but to the intent that this may be better discerned I doe intreat and desire all that are christianly minded to reade and consider of these fevv places of scripture Iam. 1.21.22.25.26 Tit. 1.16.2 Thes 1.7.8.9 Eze. 22.26 I vvill only poynt the places let the godly reade and iudge 4 Demand Novv to your fourth demand vvhich is Whether those great multituds of people spoken of Math. 14.13.14.15 c. Ioh. 6.5.10.11 can with any reason be denyed to be members of the visible church though yet wanting the pretended constitution of the Separatists and albeit many of them you say were drawne not by doctrine but by miracles report and with their desire to be fed c. 4 Answ To this your demand I ansvver directly yea they may vvith good reason grounded on the word of God speaking as you doe of the multitude be denyed to be members of any visible Church and this doth plainely apeare in the same 2 chapters namely Mat. 14. Ioh. 6. which may also be compared with other scriptures to proue the same There were none of them members of the visible Church of Christ but those that did visibly appeare to be Christs Disciples but the multitude that followed him for their bellies sake were not his Disciples as the very words of the text doe proue where a diffecence is put betweene the one and the other First looke Mat. 14.19 where it is said Hee caused the multitude to sit downe and when he had blessed broke he gaue it to the disciples the disciples to the multitude And whē they had all eaten were sufficed he caused his disciples to enter into a ship while he sent the multitude away Mat. 14.22.23 Mar. 4.4 If you say he taught them altogether it is true yet was it in parables and afterward he expounded all things to his disciples aparte Mar. 4.10.11.34.35.36 Mat. 13.10.11.13.14.15.36 And thus it doth plainly appear that the multitude were not his disciples and consequently not members of any visible Church of Christ for then he would not haue sent them away empty in their soules and full in their bodyes but he would haue expounded all things to them altogether for their edification and further comfort But the text doth plainly shevv the disciples to be vvithin and the multitude to be without Mar. 4.10.11.12 And whereas you further demand Whether those 3. thousand in the second of the acts that were converted at Peters Sermō were not true mēbers of a true visible Church before they had officers chosen among them c. I Ansvver yea they were this you say cannot bee refuted and it is true but what haue you gained by this what doth this helpe the multitude spoken of before If I should charge you here with deceitfull dealing by shuffling this place of the Acts with the other tvvo places of scripture therby to make your demand seem something and of some weight blinding therewith the eies of your readers I doubt you could hardly cleere your selfe with a good conscience but howsoever you would seeme to shuffle them together to serue your turne yet they are plainly distinguished thus as followeth This place of the Acts speaketh of three thousand godly penitent sinners pricked in their hearts for their sins and converted at that sermon the multitude spoken of in the other two scriptures were not such by your owne grant Againe these in the second of the Acts received the apostles doctrine gladly and forsaking that froward generation with whom they lived they ioyned them selues vnto the Church as appearath in the 37.40 and 41. verses Now who can deny these 3. thousand though still the multitude be denied to be members of the true visible Church when the text saith they were added to the Church although it should be granted that as yet they had no other officers chosen but the Apostles But then say you And why not our Church-assemblies in England much more grounded in the faith a true visible Church c. I ansvver no it vvill not follovv because howsoever some fevv of yovv may be more grounded in knovvledge of the truth then they vvere and thereby your sins and transgressions much more greater against God by knovving more and obaying lesse your parrish assemblies vvere not at the first gathred from others by the preaching of the vvord their hearts being touched vvith godly sorrovv for their sins neither do they yet appeare to be pricked in their hearts for their sins as those three thousand vvere Your parish assemblies do not gladly receiue the Apostles doctrine and continue therein vvith gladnes of heart to be directed and ordered thereby as they did but every man among you vvill doe vvhat his owne heart listeth euen according to the frowardnes and anger of his euill heart so that vvere it not for the lavves of the nation and the power of the magistrates restrayning them more then the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles the manifold mischiefs that would be done by one against another among you through the enuie and malice of your euill and wicked hearts is too manifest to be denyed and too shamefull to be defended I do hartely desire you Sir to examine your own heart well in this point minde well the exhortations that the Apostle giveth in Heb. 3.12 2. Cor. 13.5.6.7.8.9.11 1. Cor. 11.28.29.30.31 you see and know that your Parish-assemblies are so far from continuing in the Apostles doctrine that they neither konw therfore not receiue nor yet regard to know what the wholsome doctrine of the Apostles meaneth I speake not this of all in particular the Lord knoweth my heart is far from so thinking I know many that haue tender consciences and loving affections and do well regard the best rhings but I speake generally of the
not only the name and title as it is vsually called besides your own grant but the cōstitutiō also sheweth for it hath a pastor over the whole nation the Archbishop of Canterbury Metropolitan and Primate over all England your most reverend father in God who maketh consecrateth the Diocesian Bishops whereupon ariseth Diocesian Churches or Sees and they againe make your Parish Priests to the Archbishops and to his successours the inferiour Bishops haue sworne So help them God in Iesus Christ all due reverence and obedience This your book of consecration sheweth and we desire you to shew vs warrant for those things in the Scripture if you can or else shew vs where you haue learned them In your 8 Demand you say thus The name calling and office of these Bishops for either you must meane these Bishops or the like or else you speake nothing to the matter in hand Whether say you wee respect ordination of ministers or power of jurisdiction is the same for substance expressed in the New testament And this you say hath been and will be proved seeing it hath had a continuall succession from the Apostles time vnto this day c. If you were as redy to proove as you are to affirme things then were your valour something worth But you and the rest are so loth to be drawne to prooue yow ministry and ordination by the word of God that if you cannot make vs take your word for the lawfullnes therof then you will try by all means possible how you can get vs into some prison and keep vs there vntill you haue founde your proofe out of some other darke corner for by the light of Gods worde wee thinke you will never be able to proue the lawfullnes thereof These things that you say have indeed been often by others affirmed but never otherwise proved then by you at this present But if you good sir would now take the payns to proue what you haue saide by the word of God your paines would deserue thanks of many And withall let me intreat you sir I pray you because you say it hath had a continuall succession from the Apostles time vnto this daye to shewe me for my learning which of the Apostles was the Arch Apostle or Archbishop If you please so to call him ouer or before all the rest and from whom or by what authority he had that high place and Lordly office And also where and with whom he left that his Arch-Metropolitane authoritie to lord it over the rest as these do at this day as you say I professe vnfainedly that if I could see these things proved by the word of God I would soon through Gods mercy change my minde But in the meane time to let passe the rest of that frothie stuffe which might be raked together in these your 7 and 8 Demands I will come again to your 7 demand though I could from the 16.17.18 and 19. lines in your 8 Demand light you such a candle as I think you would be loath that any should see the light thereof but I will not blow at that cole now yet you against your will I am sure haue made a fayre beginning to kindle it where you say thus The Pope was not Antichrist before he had gotten the title of vniversall Bishop nor compleat vntill he had gotten into his bands both swords that is both Civill and Ecclesiasticall Dominion if I should now add but a little of your owne fuell to that coale these your words would discover a great part of the mistery of iniquity which growes in your ministry at this day But to let that passe nothing doubting but God in his good time by the brightnes of the Gospel wil cause the same to appear more and more dayly I will come to your 7 Demand where you tell vs of the Gospell soundly and substantially taught and professed and the sacraments so rightly administred and received in your Church as for proportion no country in the world you say nor Nationall Church whatsoever can affoord the like c The like vaine boast of all the grounds of Christian religion soundly held and professed c. I met with in your third Demand but neither there nor heare you speake any word of the practise Christian religion and of the kingly power and office of Christ governing your Church of these things you say nothing nothing how Christ ought to reigne as King in his Church by his owne Lawes and ordinances executed and administred in and by his owne offices and officers which he hath given unto and appointed in his Church forthat worke Ephe. 4.11.12.13 Rom. 12.6.7.8.9 Not a word of this I pray you Sir let not this candle be light howsoever you do you may make your people think that Christ will be a Prophet to teach them and a Priest to sacrifice for them though he be not a King to rule and reigne over them in and by his owne Lawes and officers they peradventure know not or dare not tell you that this is a denying of apart of the mediatorship of Christ therefore Sir as long as you can let them not know the kingly office of Christ nor what the Holy Ghost saith in Luk. 19.27 let them know no other government for the Church but your spitituall courts it wil serue their turne well enough untill the Lord shall moue their harts better to consider and discern the truth of his will reveiled in his word which in his good time he will do unto all those that earnestly desire and with upright harts seeke and labour to worship and serue him in spirit and in truth And now I will labour to shew the deceit of your vainglory in boasting of the word and sacraments which you say are so soundly taught and administred c. You would haue us and all men take it for granted that the nation of England is the true visible Church of Christ which you are not able to proue then you go on telling us of the sound and substantiall things in this your Church but we would first intreat you to shew us your Church constituted and builded according to the scripture if your Church be as you would make us beleue then shew it that we may see and discerne whether it be soundly and substantially built of choyse trees and of pretious living stones to the best of mans discerning hewed and squared and fastned together according to the heavenly patterne every stone living elect and pretious I say still in the best of mans discerning every stone hauing his beauty his burden and order all of them laboring to support one another to edifie one another to exhort to admonish and reproue one another that so they may be the habitation of God as these scriptures do shew Exo. 19.5.6 and chap. 25.8.9 40. 1. Chro. 29.2 Zach. 14.21 compared with Heb. 8.1.2.5.6 c. Chap. 9.11.14.1 Pet. 2.4.5.7.8.9 Act. 2.37.41.42 Rev. 1.5.6 Heb. 3.13 Chap. 10.24.15 Lev. 19.17
compared with that which is written for answer to the last 4 lines of your second Demand and I think it will giue sufficient satisfaction and for the better cleering of all other meanings I will demand of you these two questions desiring your answer if not printed yet under your hand writing Quest 1. Whether Christ be not the only wise God and everlasting King and perfect law giver to his Church and whether all Kings Potentats Princes and people be not bound to submit themselues as true and faithfull subiects unto him and to his lawes given unto his Church or whether any or all of them may by their royall power learning or authority alter change leaue out or ad unto any of those lawes which Christ hath already set forth in his last will and testament Quest 2 Whether every particular man and consequently all men be not bound by the word of God to separate themselues from every knowne sinne and error whether in faith or conversation of life that the Lord shall giue him sight of and labor diligently to reforme themselues and their families according to the law and will of God revealed in his word without the consent of the Christian Prince and Magistrates under whom hee liveth or whether they bee bound to go on and continue still in their sinne or error and not to separate from the same untill they haue first sued for and obtained the Princes and Magistrats leaue and licence and consent of the state that is indeed and breifly whether God must be God or no eexcept men will giue him leaue 10 Demand your tenth and last Demand is Whether it were not the Separatists best course to returne againe to Gods true Church and people from whom you say upon some conceited hard dealing they haue made an unlawfull rent and there to confer with the best learned and if still their consciences be somewhat tender to supplicate for some favour and liberty or if say you they will not take this course whether it weare not good for them for the avoiding of scandill and in expectance of some prosperous successe by the permission of our noble King and bonor able Counsell to remoue to Virginea and make a Plantation there in hope to convert infidels to christianity Although I can partly gesse in what humor you propounded this your Demand yet I will not answer you according to that your humor but I will answer you even as I desire to follow the truth in loue and peace with you and with all men I answer Those that haue separated and made an unlawful rent from Gods true Church and people as you say it is the best course for them to returne againe and with godly sorrow to manifest their true and unfained repentance for the unlawfull rent they haue made And that this may be the sooner effected and brought to passe seeing that you still take it for granted that your Nationall Church and Parish-Assemblies of England is the true visible Church of Christ I do once againe intreat you to shew vs the true forme and fashion of your Church And lay you apart all wrath and Envious Anger that so we may together in peace and love you with us and we with you take a view and consider of your Church and cōpare the form fashion therof with the forme and fassion of the true visible Church of Christ as it is described vnto us in the scripture If you can proue your Church or parish assemblies to be like vnto that true visible Church of Christ both for true matter whereof it is built viz. Saints And also for the maner of the building beeing coupled and combined according to the heavenly pattern Both you and all men shall see that I am willing not onely to returne againe but also to labour with godly diligence to live in a holy communion and fellowshipe with you laboring to obey the lawes and ordinances of our Lord and Saviour Iesus Christ supporting and strengthning one another in all loue And if this good and godly course maye be accomplished not onely I my selfe but all of vs that now are separated from you would much more willingly and gladly returne againe and labor to plant our selues againe in the meanest parte of England to inioy peace with holinesse and to follow the truth in loue among our kindred and friends in our owne natiue cuntry then either to continue where now many of vs as yet liue or to plant our selues in Virginia or in any other country in the world vppon any conditions or hope of any thing in this lyfe whatsoeuer Yet euen for Virginia thus much When some of ours desired to haue plāted our selues there with his majesties leaue upon these three grounds first that they might be means of replanting the gospel amongst the heathens Secondly that they might liue vnder the Kings government Thirdly that they might make way for and unite with others what in them lieth whose consciences are greived with the state of the Church in England the Byshops did by all means oppose them and their friends therein and though they aboue other men pretend the planting of the Gospell amongst heathens as you here do yet haue they been rather content that the most vile miscreants in the kingdom and such as were rather like to turne christians to heathens then to make of heathens Christians then they And thus much for answer to your ten Counter Demaunds nothing doubting but we shall be able to beare the waight of your next blow with patience when it comes forth If in the meane tyme I haue not answered you to any or all these your demands as you desire yet I haue endevoured my selfe to do it according to truth in the best of my vnderstanding as the word of God hath directed me I doe intreat you sir not to suffer the vnaduised anger of your owne evill and froward hart cause you to take things in the worst part although I cōfesse that at the first sight or view hereof this my harsh rude and vnlearned writing may seeme vnpleasant and offensiue yet vppon better and more serious considerations you shall haue lesse cause to find fault Therfore sir When you finde heerein any thing that may moue you to take offence I pray you passe by it in loue shew you forth that godly patience which you somtime teach to others Remember sir He that is slow to wrath is of great wisedome but he that is of a hastie minde exalteth folly Pro. 14.29 And againe he that is slowe vnto anger is better then the mightie man and he that ruleth his owne mynde is better then he that winneth a Citty Pro 16 32. Consider also sir It is you that haue drawne me to write and therefore you haue the lesse cause to be angry with me except your hart be enuious full of deceit malice couetousnes pride and vainglory Rom. 1.29.30.31 against which things cōsidering how euill they be in any it may be hoped that you haue learned to striue Philip. 2.3 and doe labour to be purged from an evill conscience Heb. 10.21.22.23.24 I pray you sir beare with mee for writing thus vulearnedly I haue endevoured my selfe in the best manner that I can to speake according to the word as taught of the holy Ghost from which where I haue swarved or abused the same I humbly craue of you of euery godly wise Reader Christian correction rather then pardon for it ought to goe before and shall be more profitable vnto me yea greater every way shall the benefit therof be both for me and for others also for I being better instructed shall through Gods mercy both repent and learne to amend my faults and others shall reape the fruits of Gods graces which more plentifully by your godly and diligent care louingly to correct what you see amisse vnto the which dutie of loue if I may any way stir you and others vp I shall not thinke my labour wholy lost but shall be very glad to see you and others so well affected Fare yee well Let all Glory and honor praise and thankes be giuen to God alone FINIS