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truth_n apostle_n church_n tradition_n 2,130 5 9.1915 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A68832 A briefe vievve of the weake grounds of popery as it was propounded to D. Norrice, priest, by T.V. gent: and returned without answere. Udall, Thomas. 1606 (1606) STC 24508.5; ESTC S119623 62,322 134

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which_o be_v canonical_a and_o which_o be_v apocrypha_fw-la protestant_n 8_o how_o do_v you_o know_v which_o be_v the_o church_n and_o by_o what_o mean_n may_v it_o be_v know_v that_o the_o church_n have_v authority_n to_o determine_v which_o be_v scripture_n and_o which_o of_o they_o be_v canonical_a and_o which_o be_v apocrypha_fw-la papist_n there_o be_v many_o note_n and_o mark_n reckon_v up_o by_o the_o learned_a of_o our_o side_n by_o which_o the_o church_n may_v be_v know_v but_o we_o insist_v chief_o upon_o these_o antiquity_n unity_n universality_n succession_n and_o the_o power_n of_o miracle_n and_o for_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n it_o be_v prove_v by_o the_o scripture_n protestant_n 9_o this_o answer_n be_v common_a to_o all_o heretic_n for_o they_o allege_v sometime_o the_o 48._o the_o author_n open_v imper._n in_o mat._n ho._n 48._o church_n sometime_o 2._o sometime_o iren._n adu_fw-la hear_v lib._n 3._o cap._n 2._o tradition_n sometime_o 1._o sometime_o 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betwixt_o s._n austin_n and_o s._n hierome_n touch_v peter_n reproof_n hierome_n allege_v more_o father_n on_o his_o side_n and_o make_v so_o great_a account_n of_o they_o that_o he_o desire_v austin_n to_o suffer_v he_o to_o err_v with_o such_o man_n if_o he_o think_v he_o to_o err_v 19_o epist_n 19_o to_o who_o saint_n austin_n reply_v that_o peradventure_o he_o may_v find_v as_o many_o if_o he_o have_v read_v much_o but_o i_o say_v he_o have_v paul_n the_o apostle_n himself_o in_o stead_n of_o these_o all_o and_o above_o these_o all_o to_o he_o i_o do_v fly_v to_o he_o do_v i_o appeal_v from_o all_o the_o doctor_n his_o interpreter_n who_o be_v of_o other_o mind_n etc._n etc._n euagrium_n epist_n 126_o ad_fw-la euagrium_n s._n hierome_n yield_v his_o opinion_n to_o euagrius_n a_o mean_a man_n after_o he_o have_v show_v the_o judgement_n of_o origen_n didimus_n hipollitus_n irenaeus_n eusebius_n cesariensis_n emisenus_n apollinarius_n and_o eustathius_n say_v to_o bring_v forth_o the_o witness_n it_o be_v my_o part_n let_v it_o be_v you_o to_o judge_v of_o the_o credit_n of_o the_o witness_n je●em_n orig._n hom_o 1_o super_fw-la je●em_n origen_n confess_v that_o their_o judgement_n without_o witness_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v of_o no_o credit_n 98._o hierom._n in_o psal_n 98._o hierome_n write_v that_o all_o which_o they_o speak_v they_o be_v to_o prove_v by_o the_o scripture_n 23._o hier._n in_o ma●_n 23._o and_o say_v in_o another_o place_n that_o which_o have_v not_o authority_n from_o the_o scripture_n as_o easy_o be_v despise_v as_o approve_v saint_n basil_n say_v 8._o basil_n in_o ethicis_fw-la defi●_n 8._o if_o every_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o of_o faith_n be_v sin_n as_o s._n paul_n affirm_v and_o faith_n come_v by_o hear_v and_o hear_v ●y_a the_o word_n of_o god_n ergo_fw-la whatsoever_o be_v without_o or_o beside_o the_o divine_a
and_o saint_n john_n witness_v that_o our_o saviour_n christ_n say_v 6.53_o john_n 6.53_o except_o you_o eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o the_o son_n of_o man_n and_o drink_v his_o blood_n you_o have_v no_o life_n in_o you_o and_o many_o other_o testimony_n which_o i_o omit_v it_o will_v convince_v the_o council_n of_o nice_a of_o error_n in_o decrée_v for_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n contrary_a to_o the_o second_o commandment_n but_o what_o shall_v i_o need_v to_o descend_v to_o particularity_n it_o will_v convince_v your_o late_a council_n of_o trent_n and_o all_o other_o counsel_n in_o all_o those_o point_n of_o doctrine_n wherein_o you_o vary_v from_o we_o if_o any_o papist_n dare_n undertake_v to_o bring_v the_o controversy_n between_o we_o to_o that_o trial_n and_o sure_o since_o they_o will_v seem_v to_o bring_v scripture_n to_o prove_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o the_o church_n can_v err_v i_o see_v no_o reason_n why_o they_o shall_v refuse_v to_o make_v they_o judge_v of_o all_o difference_n between_o us._n but_o i_o marvel_v they_o urge_v these_o place_n of_o scripture_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n representative_a can_v err_v see_v they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o show_v that_o any_o one_o ancient_a father_n have_v so_o understand_v they_o or_o that_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v represent_v in_o a_o general_a council_n name_n one_o father_n that_o be_v ancient_a and_o not_o counterfeit_v for_o your_o credit_n sake_n that_o have_v interpret_v these_o place_n of_o scripture_n or_o any_o other_o in_o that_o case_n as_o you_o do_v if_o you_o can_v the_o world_n may_v just_o hold_v you_o for_o wrangler_n and_o abuser_n both_o of_o scripture_n and_o father_n but_o let_v we_o a_o little_a examine_v the_o force_n of_o those_o scripture_n which_o if_o they_o be_v all_o grant_v make_v nothing_o against_o we_o if_o they_o be_v right_o understand_v the_o first_o be_v when_o two_o or_o three_o be_v gather_v together_o etc._n etc._n this_o place_n be_v as_o pregnant_a for_o two_o or_o three_o faithful_a man_n assemble_v in_o christ_n name_n as_o to_o a_o nationall_n or_o a_o provincial_a council_n neither_o do_v it_o give_v any_o great_a privilege_n to_o a_o general_n council_n than_o it_o do_v unto_o they_o 12._o bellar._n li._n 1._o de_fw-fr conc._n ca._n 12._o though_o it_o be_v allege_v by_o bellarmine_n as_o the_o ground_n for_o the_o authorise_a of_o counsel_n all_o which_o promise_v notwithstanding_o yourselves_o grant_v that_o both_o nationall_n and_o provincial_a counsel_n may_v err_v the_o next_o place_n be_v the_o sixtéenth_n of_o john_n where_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v promise_v to_o the_o apostle_n to_o lead_v they_o into_o all_o truth_n which_o spirit_n of_o truth_n be_v promise_v to_o the_o church_n and_o to_o every_o particular_a member_n thereof_o for_o who_o our_o saviour_n christ_n pray_v say_v sanctify_v they_o in_o thy_o truth_n thy_o word_n be_v truth_n 20._o joh._n 17.17.19_o 20._o and_o again_o i_o pray_v not_o for_o these_o alone_a but_o for_o they_o also_o that_o shall_v believe_v in_o i_o through_o their_o word_n but_o what_o make_v this_o for_o general_a counsel_n more_o than_o the_o whole_a church_n or_o every_o faithful_a member_n thereof_o for_o although_o this_o proove_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n shall_v ever_o remain_v with_o the_o church_n and_o with_o every_o true_a member_n of_o the_o same_o yet_o must_v we_o not_o hereof_o conclude_v though_o it_o be_v as_o pregnant_a for_o every_o faithful_a particular_a man_n as_o for_o the_o whole_a that_o either_o every_o member_n of_o christ_n or_o every_o pastor_n that_o be_v the_o apostle_n successor_n can_v err_v neither_o be_v this_o to_o be_v restrain_v to_o general_a counsel_n or_o to_o the_o pope_n neither_o must_v we_o think_v that_o any_o visible_a church_n may_v challenge_v all_o privilege_n that_o the_o apostle_n have_v as_o necessary_a to_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o world_n 16._o rhem._n test_n john_n 16._o but_o your_o rhemist_n will_v tell_v you_o that_o to_o teach_v all_o truth_n and_o to_o preserve_v in_o truth_n and_o from_o error_n the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v promise_v and_o perform_v only_o to_o the_o church_n and_o the_o choice_a governor_n and_o general_a counsel_n upon_o which_o the_o papist_n conclude_v that_o if_o the_o church_n can_v err_v the_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n can_v err_v be_v not_o this_o substantial_a reason_n the_o whole_a church_n can_v err_v ergo_fw-la the_o pastor_n and_o preacher_n can_v err_v deal_v plain_o and_o direct_o do_v you_o hereby_o conclude_v that_o all_o pastor_n can_v err_v or_o that_o no_o pastor_n can_v err_v for_o to_o say_v that_o no_o pastor_n can_v err_v be_v apparent_a madness_n and_o to_o say_v that_o all_o pastor_n can_v err_v stand_v you_o in_o no_o stead_n neither_o be_v this_o a_o good_a argument_n the_o whole_a church_n can_v err_v that_o be_v all_z and_o every_o faithful_a can_v err_v ergo_fw-la all_o pastor_n can_v err_v this_o be_v no_o kind_n of_o consequent_a for_o some_o of_o the_o faithful_a may_v be_v direct_v to_o the_o truth_n and_o they_o no_o pastor_n nor_o preacher_n and_o many_o preacher_n may_v be_v preserve_v from_o error_n and_o they_o no_o bishop_n and_o many_o bishop_n may_v keep_v in_o the_o faith_n and_o they_o not_o assemble_v and_o a_o great_a number_n of_o those_o that_o be_v assemble_v may_v be_v righty_a affect_v and_o yet_o not_o the_o most_o part_n of_o they_o and_o the_o great_a side_n may_v be_v well_o dispose_v and_o yet_o not_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n without_o who_o confirmation_n you_o hold_v no_o council_n lawful_a and_o therefore_o this_o argument_n be_v very_o childish_a the_o whole_a church_n can_v err_v ergo_fw-la general_n counsel_n can_v err_v and_o special_o the_o pope_n of_o who_o we_o shall_v speak_v more_o particular_o hereafter_o neither_o have_v the_o holy_a ghost_n fill_v with_o the_o unmeasurable_a abundance_n of_o grace_n any_o but_o christ_n 1.16_o john_n 3.34_o john_n 1.16_o for_o god_n give_v not_o the_o spirit_n by_o measure_n to_o he_o of_o who_o fullness_n we_o all_o receive_v and_o it_o may_v well_o be_v gather_v from_o the_o scripture_n 4.7_o 2._o cor._n 10.13_o eph._n 4.7_o that_o though_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v give_v to_o the_o elect_n yet_o he_o have_v give_v it_o by_o measure_n as_o i_o may_v say_v with_o saint_n paul_n not_o to_o this_o end_n that_o they_o may_v not_o err_v but_o that_o they_o may_v not_o err_v to_o death_n for_o what_o thing_n soever_o be_v receive_v of_o another_o it_o be_v receive_v according_a to_o the_o capacity_n of_o that_o which_o receive_v it_o the_o last_o be_v the_o 1._o tim._n 3.15_o the_o church_n be_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n therefore_o it_o can_v err_v if_o this_o argument_n be_v grant_v will_v it_o follow_v hereupon_o that_o general_a counsel_n can_v not_o err_v but_o this_o be_v sufficient_o refute_v before_o and_o you_o know_v that_o peter_n be_v a_o pillar_n of_o truth_n and_o yet_o he_o err_v and_o be_v reproove_v by_o saint_n paul_n 2._o gal._n 2._o yea_o your_o divine_n of_o paris_n parisienses_fw-la articuli_fw-la parisienses_fw-la but_o late_o resolve_v that_o peter_n err_v in_o faith_n when_o paul_n reproove_v he_o and_o the_o very_a drift_n and_o scope_n of_o the_o place_n show_v that_o timothy_n be_v not_o send_v by_o saint_n paul_n to_o the_o church_n to_o learn_v his_o duty_n but_o to_o the_o scripture_n these_o thing_n write_v i_o unto_o thou_o say_v he_o hope_v to_o come_v short_o but_o if_o i_o tarry_v long_o that_o thou_o may_v know_v how_o thou_o ought_v to_o behave_v thyself_o in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o church_n of_o the_o live_a god_n the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n this_o church_n then_o which_o timothy_n be_v conversant_a in_o be_v the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n call_v by_o s_n paul_n the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n but_o this_o church_n of_o ephesus_n have_v condemn_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o pope_n supremacy_n 6._o conc._n flor._n sess_n ult._n chalcocondylas_n de_fw-fr reb._n turc_n lib._n 6._o to_o which_o other_o church_n of_o the_o east_n have_v likewise_o condescend_v therefore_o if_o that_o be_v true_a still_o which_o the_o church_n teach_v because_o s._n paul_n call_v it_o the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n then_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o pope_n supremacy_n be_v wicked_a and_o papistry_n be_v heresy_n yea_o even_o this_o church_n notwithstanding_o it_o be_v call_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n be_v now_o leave_v desolate_a to_o mahomet_n wicked_a impiety_n but_o let_v we_o see_v by_o some_o few_o testimony_n of_o the_o father_n how_o they_o have_v expound_v this_o place_n and_o whether_o they_o have_v apply_v it_o to_o general_a counsel_n as_o the_o papist_n do_v and_o not_o
objection_n of_o the_o error_n of_o pope_n and_o counsel_n refute_v so_o can_v i_o whensoever_o you_o shall_v instance_n any_o such_o particular_a refutation_n which_o may_v ease_v you_o of_o some_o pain_n if_o it_o be_v so_o sufficient_o perform_v refer_v you_o to_o some_o of_o the_o author_n of_o our_o side_n where_o the_o same_o reason_n have_v be_v with_o no_o less_o sufficiency_n handle_v and_o reply_v to_o assure_v myself_o that_o neither_o any_o of_o you_o have_v or_o can_v make_v any_o objection_n against_o the_o doctrine_n we_o profess_v that_o have_v not_o be_v already_o object_v and_o likewise_o by_o we_o answer_v and_o if_o any_o will_v show_v i_o the_o contrary_a i_o will_v be_v behold_v to_o he_o neither_o will_v i_o shut_v my_o eye_n against_o the_o truth_n if_o this_o which_o i_o have_v say_v may_v any_o whit_n prevail_v with_o you_o to_o make_v show_n of_o that_o great_a learning_n whereof_o in_o your_o letter_n you_o have_v boast_v by_o your_o liberal_a undertake_v to_o prove_v so_o many_o particular_n which_o hitherto_o as_o great_a clerk_n as_o yourself_o have_v fail_v in_o i_o shall_v be_v ready_a and_o willing_a to_o perform_v whatsoever_o i_o have_v herein_o promise_v otherwise_o i_o pray_v you_o return_v the_o book_n as_o you_o receive_v it_o and_o you_o shall_v see_v that_o some_o such_o course_n shall_v be_v take_v as_o shall_v make_v you_o blush_v to_o have_v censure_v so_o rash_o your_o friend_n in_o christianity_n and_o charity_n t._n v._n a_o brief_a view_n of_o the_o weakness_n of_o the_o ground_n of_o popish_a religion_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o these_o several_a objection_n and_o answer_n follow_v protestant_n 1whereupon_o do_v you_o ground_v your_o religion_n papist_n upon_o the_o word_n of_o god_n interpret_v by_o the_o church_n which_o can_v err_v protestant_n 2_o what_o do_v you_o understand_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n papist_n the_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n protestant_n 3_o what_o do_v you_o understand_v by_o the_o church_n papist_n 4._o stapl._n princi_fw-la doct_v l._n 7_o ca._n 10._o l._n 11_o ca._n 5_o hervaeus_n de_fw-fr potest_fw-la pap_n &_o r._n cuper_v petrus_n de_fw-la palude_fw-la de_fw-fr potest_fw-la papae_fw-la a●_n 4._o the_o church_n be_v sometime_o take_v for_o the_o ancient_a father_n sometime_o for_o general_a counsel_n sometime_o we_o prefer_v the_o head_n of_o the_o church_n the_o pope_n before_o both_o protestant_n 4_o well_o that_o we_o may_v proceed_v orderly_o in_o the_o handle_n of_o these_o particular_n do_v you_o receive_v all_o the_o book_n of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n with_o equal_a authority_n papist_n no_o but_o follow_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n we_o distinguish_v between_o the_o canonical_a and_o the_o apocrypha_fw-la protestant_n 5_o which_o be_v the_o book_n which_o you_o call_v apocrypha_fw-la papist_n we_o hold_v as_o apocrypha_fw-la the_o prayer_n of_o manasses_n the_o three_o and_o four_o book_n of_o esdras_n also_o other_o that_o be_v not_o usual_a in_o your_o english_a bibles_n as_o a_o appendix_n to_o the_o book_n of_o job_n the_o 151._o psalm_n a_o preface_n to_o the_o lamentation_n of_o jeremie_n the_o three_o and_o four_o book_n of_o maccabee_n protestant_n 6_o well_o we_o agree_v with_o you_o in_o the_o rejection_n of_o these_o book_n and_o we_o likewise_o consent_v with_o you_o that_o all_o the_o book_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n as_o they_o stand_v be_v to_o be_v receive_v of_o all_o for_o canonical_a scripture_n what_o be_v then_o the_o book_n that_o be_v in_o question_n between_o we_o papist_n there_o be_v 7._o chapter_n of_o hester_n certain_a story_n annex_v to_o daniel_n as_o of_o bel_n and_o the_o dragon_n of_o susanna_n of_o the_o three_o child_n also_o the_o epistle_n of_o baruch_n join_v to_o jeremie_n then_o the_o book_n of_o toby_n judeth_n the_o wisdom_n of_o solomon_n ecclesiasticus_fw-la two_o book_n of_o the_o maccabee_n these_o we_o repute_v as_o canonical_a both_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o father_n and_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n protestant_n 7_o well_o since_o i_o shall_v have_v cause_n hereafter_o to_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n i_o will_v but_o brief_o give_v a_o touch_n to_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o refusal_n of_o these_o book_n all_o canonical_a scripture_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v write_v by_o the_o prophet_n we_o have_v a_o sure_a word_n of_o the_o prophet_n 1.19_o 2._o pet._n 1.19_o say_v saint_n peter_n and_o saint_n paul_n call_v they_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o prophet_n 2d_o rom._n 16_o 2d_o but_o none_o of_o those_o book_n afore_o name_v of_o tobias_n of_o judeth_n and_o the_o rest_n be_v write_v by_o the_o prophet_n therefore_o none_o of_o those_o book_n be_v canonical_a all_o the_o book_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n that_o be_v canonical_a be_v acknowledge_v of_o the_o jew_n and_o hebrew_n and_o write_v in_o hebrew_n but_o the_o jew_n receive_v none_o of_o these_o book_n into_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o scripture_n though_o to_o they_o be_v commit_v the_o oracle_n of_o god_n as_o saint_n paul_n say_v neither_o be_v they_o in_o the_o hebrew_n tongue_n ergo_fw-la they_o be_v not_o canonical_a but_o to_o the_o end_n you_o may_v see_v how_o well_o the_o church_n of_o which_o you_o boast_v agree_v with_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o father_n both_o ancient_a &_o modern_a salom._n high_a prol_n galeat_fw-la &_o e●i_n ad_fw-la pauli_n &_o in_o praefat_fw-la ●i_fw-la reg_n &_o in_o praefat_fw-la in_o ●ro_n salom._n i_o will_v give_v you_o this_o taste_n brief_o s._n hierom_n say_v the_o church_n read_v those_o book_n but_o receive_v they_o not_o among_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n the_o sum_n of_o all_o which_o be_v confirm_v by_o these_o testimony_n follow_v who_o particular_a speech_n to_o this_o purpose_n for_o brevity_n sake_n i_o omit_v refer_v you_o to_o the_o place_n themselves_o as_o they_o be_v here_o follow_v set_v down_o as_o rufinus_n in_o his_o exposition_n upon_o the_o créede_v cyril_n of_o jerusalem_n in_o the_o 4._o of_o his_o catechism_n athanasius_n in_o synop._n sacr._n scripture_n nazianzen_n in_o carminis_fw-la epiphan_n li._n de_fw-fr mensur_n &_o ponder_v cyprian_n upon_o the_o créed_a damasken_o ca._n 49._o hugo_n de_fw-fr sanct._n victor_n de_fw-fr sacram._n in_o prol_n li._n 1._o ca._n 7._o radulphus_fw-la in_o levit._fw-la li._n 14._o c._n 1._o lyra_n in_o prol_n in_o li._n apocry_n hugo_n cardina_fw-la in_o prol_n josu_fw-la all_o these_o contradict_v the_o opinion_n of_o the_o papist_n in_o this_o controversy_n yea_o arias_n montanus_n a_o chief_a papist_n in_o his_o hebrew_a bible_n write_v in_o the_o forefront_n &_o principal_a leaf_n of_o the_o book_n there_o be_v add_v say_v he_o in_o this_o edition_n the_o book_n write_v in_o greek_a which_o the_o catholic_a church_n follow_v the_o canon_n of_o the_o hebrew_n reckon_v among_o the_o apocrypha_fw-la the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n 2._o can._n 59_o constantinop_n in_o trul_a lo_o 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against_o the_o donatist_n as_o he_o do_v often_o we_o be_v brethren_n say_v he_o to_o they_o why_o do_v we_o strive_v 2_o aug._n in_o psal_n 21._o exposi_fw-la 2_o our_o father_n die_v not_o intestate_a he_o make_v a_o testament_n and_o so_o die_v man_n do_v strive_v about_o the_o good_n of_o the_o dead_a till_o the_o testament_n be_v bring_v forth_o when_o that_o be_v bring_v they_o yield_v to_o have_v it_o open_v and_o read_v the_o judge_n do_v hearken_v the_o councillor_n be_v silent_a the_o crier_n bid_v peace_n all_o the_o people_n be_v attentive_a that_o the_o word_n of_o the_o dead_a may_v be_v read_v and_o hear_v he_o lie_v void_a of_o life_n and_o feel_n in_o his_o grave_n and_o his_o word_n prevail_v christ_n do_v sit_v in_o heaven_n &_o be_v his_o testament_n gainesayd_a open_v it_o let_v we_o read_v we_o be_v brethren_n why_o do_v we_o strive_v let_v our_o mind_n be_v pacify_v our_o father_n have_v not_o leave_v we_o without_o a_o testament_n he_o that_o make_v the_o 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