very dark and smoakie this hee will doe by shewing the manner of the aforesaid Constitution in the causes of it How will he doe it in pag. 40. by saying over again what he had said again and again before namely that the Scriptures remaining in the place of the Apostles for us to have recourse unto and serve as the mouth of Christ Alas this is but a poore clearing for this is onely in a directive way as before I noted And what then The Scriptures being so truly nothing at all Yes saith he as the Apostles did before the Scriptures were written To which I say there were Scriptures before the Apostles to which the Apostles had an eye and regard and directed others to doe the like The holy Apostles they acted Ordinances of Religion preaching breaking bread and baptizing The Scripture acts nothing neither can they surely Act. 2. 42. this is a poore clearing we will minde the Scriptures hee here quoteth Matth. 28. 20. 2 Pet. 19. 20 21. Rom. 10. 6 7 8. In answer I will not tire my selfe and the Reader certainly no man can imagine any thing more then direction from that full and perfect rule of the Scriptures as gatherable from those places of Scripture which as before I said none deny let him but call to mind what he said of an orderly way which God requireth and how that is as he conceiveth by the Church and then let him tell mee if hee can to what purpose these Scriptures are or that which followeth that as the Lords people conferred with the Prophets and Apostles about their great affaires so have the Lords people now Moses and the Prophets Christ and his Apostles in their writings as Luk. 16. 29. And what then truly nothing it is but for direction as before nor yet that which further followeth in this clearing matter of the constituting causes which are saith he with the spirit of life in them as effectuall as their personall presence if not more Answ Stay a while the matter is sure otherwise for this effectuallnesse if it were granted is but directive But it is not wholly granted for that the Apostles were men inspired and sent of God to declare his will they were a saving meanes of good to men and God in his good pleasure as a double mercy gave his Word and sent his Apostles and Prophets sure I take it it must needs follow that if the Scriptures were as effectuall without the Apostles and rather more then with them then God gave the Apostles in vaine and the Churches were great losers by their personall presence but the truth is otherwise as is most manifest The Scripture with the Spirit of life in them act nothing but onely direct and furnish men how to act according to the will of God in an orderly way according to what hee holdeth For proofe of what before he affirmed of the effectualnesse of the Scripture he quoteth Joh. 6. 62. 2 Pet. 1. 18 19. Revel 11. 3 5 11. Answ That in John speaketh of Christ ascending where he was before how this should prove any thing is beyond my thoughts I will say nothing but leave the Reader to judge of it That place of Peter is of the sure direction of the Word in dark and our doing well to take heed to it That in the Revelation is of the two witnesses a thing too mysterious to be a proofe in this case I suppose J. S. will not hold himselfe to be one of those witnesses nor he with others of his way to be both those witnesses there spoken of I will say no more but leave the Reader to judge whether these Scriptures doe prove that the holy Scriptures with the Spirit of life in them as he is pleased to say are in stead of the Apostles personally sent of God with power to act ordinances or whether they in the case of the Ordinances dispensing in an orderly way are as much or more effectuall then the Apostles personally that were sent of Christ for that end who did not send the Scriptures as in the case of the Eunuch but Philip and in the case of Cornelius Peter as in those and the like instances may be seen He proceedeth and in full concluding of this matter saith and thus all succession what phrase have we here from the beginning came to Christ Of what speakes hee now of Ordinances I had thought all Ordinances had ever proceeded from him he being ever the Lord of the Church and sure he meaneth the Ordinances namely those ordained of old under Abraham and Moses and the Prophets these lasted continued to the coming of Christ into the world the substance indeed of those shadows so his sense may be good From Christ he saith to the Apostles from the Apostles to the Scriptures This is pure non-sense if I mistake not and beside I aske him where is that orderly way he told us of and how is the case now according to 1 Cor. 3. by him alleadged for the Authority of an unbaptized Church Doth he not by this discent seclude them from all rather then inright them to any such authorite happily he will say Oh from the Scriptures to us very good But first how from Christ to the Apostles Did Christ our Lord preferre the Apostles before his beloved Spouse for whom he gave himselfe I alwayes took the Apostles as the servants of the Church for Christs sake Secondly did the Ordinances 2 Cor. 4. 5. proceed from Christ to the persons of the Apostles or to their office as Apostles So as when they in regard either of person or office left the world it descended to the Scripture certainly the right and interest of the Scriptures was the same before the death and cessation of the Apostles as after and the Scriptures gained no legacie by such friends unlesse a sealing to the truth and full authority of their direction so from the Scriptures to us a wonderfull matter a very fair Ring from the Scriptures to the Scriptures and so to us just nothing but a shew of words without matter Further he saith That all succession is now spirituall So it seemeth he holdeth it was carnall before when it was from Abraham to Moses from Moses to Christ and the Apostles and so to the Scriptures and now it is from the Scriptures to us it is spirituall a rare conceit He saith it is now according to faith whether he mean faith of miracles or what else is hard to say but it mattereth not much for he is beside the Scriptures and walking in some other field It followeth not saith he the personall succession of any but onely the Word of God Answ Sure J. S. speaketh in a strange tongue he is never able to make out his sense that succession follows the Word the Word being immoveable and that which abideth for ever and hath no place for succession though he thus speaketh he know not what And the word of God he saith
head and husband that all this time of her backsliding did not renounce her In short she was approved to be but not approved as pure in that her being And surely so is the case of the Church where Antichrist sits as God 2 Thes 2. 4. The matter so considered let J. S. when he awaketh make the most he can of it The second part of the dream is this that this is a part of the same I suppose he meaneth corrupt as the whole is To which I answer though it be corrupt yet it is no part of the corruption there being difference as before betwixt a thing and the corruption that attends it the Israelites were a part of the Schisme of Jeroboam The seven thousand were a part of the ten Tribes which went astray In a diverse 1 King 19. 18. sense persons may be of the Church of God and members for their parts and yet in a way of Idolatry and in that way none 1 Cor. 12. 27. compared with 1 Cor. 5. 1. 1 Cor. 25. 12. of Gods as may be further seen by the case of Manasses as also of the Priest that went astray that went along with the Israelites in their Idolatry sure there is little in this part of the whole But in the third place in his deep charge he saith this is to look for a man in the Moon Answ Just as J. S. did look for the Church and Baptisme in the Scriptures Indeed Eliah thought as his complaint sheweth that he was left alone but God told him otherwise for sure to Rom. 11. 3 4. minde a Church as retaining her being though in a corrupt estate is no looking for a man in a Moon though he for want of other matter and better proofe is pleased out of his sick stomack to say so against the truth and such as stand for it Fourthly saith he It is to suppose a Church to consist in such matter as is destructive to it self Sure J. S. cannot make out this in any rationall way it is but a part of his dream to hold a Church to consist of matter corrupt and degenerate as was the Idolatrous Israelites and as was the lukewarme Laodiceans is not to hold amisse is not to hold the matter destructive to the form or being The faithfull City becomming sometime a harlot Indeed such matter is against Esa 1. 21. the well being of the Church but that is not our question the matter of the Church ought to be holy and pure but it is often otherwise Fifthly he saith to hold a continuednesse of the Churches being though not of her well being his term is here succession of truth but he meaneth sure the Churches being It is against the light of nature Answ A marvellous high ascent and sore charge but it is but rashly spoken as one in a dream that loveth no inferences But however it is well it is not against the light of the holy Scriptures J. S. hath left them and is gone to the light of nature but how doth the light of nature teach that a Church and Ordinances of which is our question cannot continue their being if corrupt or greatly corrupted Truly no more then in the case of Job that he should not or could not be a man because corrupt Job 2. 7. The folly and weaknesse of this fifth part of the dream I suppose any weak judgement will be able to see and I will say no more In the sixth place to bring up the reare he addeth a charge of a foule nature That to hold a continuance of the Church and Ordinances under the apostacy of Antichrist Is a keeping of the Pope upon the throne of Christ whether he will or no But how doth this appear truly as all the rest because he saies so I would ask J. S. or any other if the holding the Israelites of the ten Tribes to be Gods people and their Circumcision to be Gods Ordinances did thus keep up that apostacy and the Calves at Dan and Bethel perforce as in the place of God and his waies Againe doth J. S. and those of his way because they hold the continuation of the same Scriptures and which is more translated by Antichristians in their sense and so successively from Pope Jone doth he or they in thus doing keep the Pope upon the throne of Christ whether he will or no It concerns him to see to it and to renounce and cast away those Antichristian Scriptures as he hath done his Baptisme and so seek new Scriptures too lest not being true to his owne principles hee should become guilty of keeping the Pope upon the Throne of Christ whether he will or no. Experience the School-mistris of fooles hath shewed the contrary of this charge in the Reformed Churches who have almost unthroned the Pope of whom J. S. and those of his way as if they had some compassion have busied themselves in making a little Terret Throne for him to sit upon and inhabit in namely their Babel practise And certainly their erroneous practise and way doth more help to keep the Pope upon the Throne of Christ then any other thing that pretends opposition to it as that course doth of which a little more hereafter and for the present I shall onely here aske J. S. whether he doe think the Pope doth sit upon the Throne of Christ yea or no if he say yea then sure hee sitteth in the Temple of God in the Church for Christs Throne is there He proceedeth after that great charge thus But to lay the chain of succession of truth this way namely through the Popedome of Rome as all such must doe that hold a personall succession of a Church Ordinances to consist in the same from the Apostles untill now What will such doe and where will their succession of truth lye when they come to the woman Pope of whom the Papists themselves are ashamed In answer I retort it thus to lay the chain of succession of truth this way namely through the Popedome as all such must doe that hold the writing or the letter of the Scriptures to have continued from the Apostles untill now in a way of personall succession in that defection what will such doe when they come to the woman Pope of whom the Papists themselves are ashamed truly J. S. hath cause to be ashamed of his foolish reason which if it were true he would finde himselfe to be at as great a fault as his oponent But further I say such as hold the continuation of the Church and Ordinances through Popish defection or under the state of the Popedome will doe well enough with their tenent notwithstanding Pope Jone who could never reach the Churches being to cause it to cease nor yet Baptisme of which in speciall is our question all the coined words of J. S. put upon the matter will not doe it as his chain of succession of truth in stead of continuation of Baptisme again hold
matter and clean out in this first Notion Second Notion And for succession of truth truth of Ordinances you must understand It comes now by the promise of God and faith of his people whom he as aforesaid hath taken out of the world to the fellowship of the Gospel Answ Setting aside succession and in stead thereof putting in continuation What can be more right then this though not in J. S. his sense The truth of Ordinances continues by vertue of Gods promise made to his people they continuing to beleeve in him and not forgetting his name though many times greatly failing against him as of old yet the truth of Ordinances continue namely the Church and Baptisme now as the Church and Circumcision did of old and this by the promise of God J. S. hath no such sense as this but some inward familisticall sense of inward faith and Gods promise to such secret beleevers which he is never able to make out any such thing that the truth of Ordinances depends upon them in regard of continuation by vertee of the promise of God to them in such a secret way Third Notion To whom the Ordinances of Christ stand only by succession of faith What faith outward or inward and not of persons What faith severed from persons Answ I would fain know what any rationall man can make of this either in it self or as it hath relation to what is before declared Fourth Notion For the same power the Apostles had in former time for direction in godlinesse the Scriptures have in the hand of Christ as the head of the Church which make up but one body 1 Cor. 12. 12. Answ such power for direction in godlinesse the Scriptures had of old when the Apostles lived Some other things J. S. aimeth at but the truth prevaileth and the words he here useth will nothing avail namely of the Scriptures in the hand of Christ joyned with the Church It s worth observing how the Church is here couched just after the manner of the Babylonians that pretend their Church is inspired with the Holy Ghost and cannot erre for Christ the head is in Heaven and hath left his Word for direction in godlinesse for his Church to take heed unto Now the holy Apostles had authority to act Ordinances according to Christs command they were to preach pray break bread and baptize the Scriptures were not sent neither act they any thing as before So as in J. S. his sense it is utterly untrue that the Scriptures in the hand of Christ joyned with the body have the same power to act Ordinances as the Apostles had Notion fift and last So as what the Apostles and Church together might do in acting Ordinances you must understand the same may the head and body together with the Scriptures do now Reader observe how J. S. coucheth subtilly his unbaptized Church betwixt Christ and the Scriptures so as Christ being in heaven and the Scriptures only directive the whole matter for action will fall into the hands of the Church A contrivance as fine as the Papist found out when they were sore put to it by John Hus and the Bohemians and not able to defend themselves and their courses against the truth they invented and abetted this That holy Church could not erre Secondly observe how I. S. quitteth two of these three namely the head and body and concludeth laying all the stresse upon the Scriptures and so in effect saith nothing at all the Scriptures being only directive for saith he the Scriptures have the same whereas he should have said the head and body with the Scriptures have it Thirdly observe what a preposterous conjunction I. S. maketh of three in the matter of fact one of which to wit Christ the head is in Heaven who though he hath fulnesse of power acts not here below but in a providenciall and ministeriall way and the like The Church the second Christs wife is in all things to be obedient to Christ her husband his will and pleasure contained in the Scripture the Scriptures they act not but only direct where is I. S. now just where he was at the first and no further Fourthly this is utterly untrue which he concludeth that what the Church and the Apostles the Ministers of the Churches might do that the Scriptures he quitteth the head and body as before may do Now what might not the Church and the Apostles do in ordinances and administration orderly according to God what can the Scriptures act truly nothing at all their authority is only directive I suppose any one may see how far out I. S. is in these conceits In the close he is up again with revelation which happily if he did study and cleave unto would stand him in more stead then the Scriptures that are so helplesse to him in his cause CHAP. IV. Containing a defence of the opinion of them that hold no right or orderly Ministeriall Church without or before Baptisme I. S. Having ended his former matter against the Churches continuance and likewise the continuance of Baptisme under the popish defection proceeds saying And so we come to such as will have no Church before Baptisme and so make Baptisme the form of the Church Answ Who these such are that he intendeth I cannot tell they are either some of his own way or some other some of his own way do indeed so hold that Baptisme constitutes or is the form of the Church Did I think he intended them I should leave them to try it out and should not intermeddle with the strife I shall only as the matter relates to them shew my thoughts briefly namely that they will be too hard for J. S. in the tenent he himself being of their belief but that he is not true to his owne principle otherwise how should he without Schisme and being a Schismatick leave the reformed and separated Churches and set up another of his own as he hath done only he accounteth them no Churches of Christ and what is the reason he doth so nothing but his Baptisme is wanting so as that must be the form that gives being for otherwise They are companies of Saints professing faith in the righteousnesse of Christ and living accordingly that is in holynesse of life This he describeth to be the matter and the form he declareth to be their being united and knit together in one fellowship or orderly body and that is the Covenant of grace by which God becomes not visibly as he unawars saith but in an outward way of relation a God unto them and they become visibly his people Now what is there to hinder J. S. from being a Schismatick by his own ground for surely nothing hinders those Churches which he forsaketh and disclaimeth as no Churches of Christ by all or any thing that in his description of the matter or form of the Church by him set down can be found and let him take in his five Reasons to help him if he
a personall succession again where will their succession of truth lye All these being returned home to J. S. their master he will see or at leastwise any indifferent person will be able to see that Pope Jone will help nothing in the case to hinder the continuance of the Churches being nor yet of the being of Baptisme with which Pope Jone medled not nor was any way concerned this matter at the most is but a relique of the dram before I. S. further tells us that when he speakes of personall succession of truth as in reference to Church and Church Ordinances he looks upon this in the power and authority tbat beares the same Answ Now J. S. seemeth something to awaken out of his dreame and to speak sense what ever sense he have in it his personall succession of truth set aside when he speaketh of the Church and Ordinances their continuance he looketh upon this in the power and authority that beares the same Now surely the power and authority that beares the Church and Church Ordinance up is the power of him that beareth up all things by his mighty power Jesus Christ our Heb. 1. 3. Lord against the gates of hell that preserves his Church as hee did his Arke when Dagon fell in his owne Temple Is it not a wonderfull Matth. 16. thing that he should conceit that Antichrist should by any power of his support Christs Church and the Ordinances thereof that with all his might and force indeavoureth their destruction and ruine but in vaine for Christ is stronger that with his mighty power supports them But J. S. looking awry cannot see any other bearing up the Church and Ordinances then by Antichrist and the Pope that are trampling it down what they can fitting there as God for by no meanes will he be brought to distinguish and put difference betwixt Gods Temple and the Man of sinne sitting in it but like Nicodemus he will say How can it be Joh. 3. For saith he To hold a Church to be true in regard of being you must mind and not of purity and the Ordinances their administred the true Ordinances of God and to leave this and to set up a way of worship apart from it and to deny communion with it is in his darke understanding a meere Schisme and the overthrow of all Order in Religion Answ I am both glad and sorry Glad that J. S. is no Apostle so as we are not bound to beleeve his bare word unlesse we will Sorry I am that he hath so dark a judgement and understanding as in this he doth discover For first I say a Church may be true and the Ordinances true that is Gods and yet both corrupt so as they cannot be partaken with all without sin In such a case there is to be a with-drawing from them in regard of particular communion in as much as we are to keep our selves pure not doing evill for good ends Yea a Church in regard of membership may be left and that without the said Churches consent as plainly appeareth by the example of the Apostles and others that left the Church of Israel of old and that while it was a Church And God himselfe calleth his people out of Babylon Rev. 18. 4. though the Church and Ordinances have a being there in as much as there can be no remaining there but there will be a partaking in sinne So as leaving particular communion and personall relation of membership I conceive is very necessary and according to God after the manner of all the Reformed Churches that have come out of Babylon renounced communion with her in the things of God because of the evills attending of them lest they should be defiled As on the other side they have drawn nigh to God in the purity of his wayes and worship as those did that left Israel in the time of their Apostacie and came to the Lord and his pure worship in Judah But thus to doe namely to leave a Church and Ordinances greatly polluted and defiled and to worship God together purely apart from that corrupted estate with-holding fellowship is in his dark judgement a meer Schisme alas poor dark judgement such a Schisme as he hath oft made and those of his way are full of in their own sense The holy Apostles and beleeving Jewes were Schismaticks in his account and all the Reformed Churches and Christians that have forsaken Babylon and are come out of her are all Schismaticks in his dark judgement But no marvell he so accounteth of these latter seeing by his reckoning they are not baptized Christians Truly he and those of his way by light and cleare judgements will be discerned to be even such themselves for doing as they doe Now to that latter part of this charge That it is the overthrow of all order in Religion I aske him which way it appeareth so to be sure he cannot tell for if it be well minded it will be found to be a speciall meanes of the preserving of religion decayed and a repayring of it and of reducing it to the first purity and an utter putting away all rust and defilement and therefore the Apostle giveth in charge having forewarned of the great defection of Antichrist not to begin a new but to keep the old Ordinances according Thes 2. 15. to the purity they were delivered to us J. S. his course I suppose is guilty of the overthrow of all order in Religion not onely what is of God remaining and afoot in the world but even of that also which is held forth in the Word in erecting a new Church and dispensing new Ordinances without a new Commission which never any did before After this he tells us of his learning Christ which sure is very little in regard of order as his way and course doth shew So far faith he as I have learned Christ men are to stand in their places and use all means to reclaim and reform corrupt Churches he meaneth by the word of truth Very good But what if they will not reform and all means which we can use availeth not This being done saith he so as of necessity I must leave off communion with them So as it seemeth communion may be left with a Church that is Gods because of evill and obstinacie in the same Then in such a case he thinketh for he onely giveth us his thoughts without Scripture he must disclaim them and separate from them To which I say it is but upon the condition of their non-repentance which challengeth sometime of waiting but that such a Church he ought to disclaim and separate from he holdeth First I would know whether he may do this while it remaineth a Church of Christ If he say yea then I ask him What is become of that which in his dark judgement was a meer Schisme But if he say nay not till the Church ceases to be Truly that will be a very hard matter for him to
giveth being to all Order and Ordinances It doth give being of direction and warrant declaring what is good and lawfull and what not It acts nothing God requireth an orderly way and that is by the Church Now courteous Reader do but seriously consider how J. S. hath cleared the way of raising and beginning again Baptisme lost and fallen out of the world as he beleeveth and how he hath removed the difficulties in the way which he ealleth clouds that darken the skie See if thou do not yet finde it very dark and cloudy as ever and never the clearer for all the labour and pains he hath taken and whether his labour and travell herein hath been to any more purpose then the washing of the Blackmoore For first of all Whereas he referreth thee to the Scriptures as the Successours of the Apostles in his opinion First Thou seest the Scriptures were before the Apostles and the Apostles themselves were guided by them Secondly That the Scriptures are onely directive and act nothing at all neither can they and beside they do not direct to any such course as the constituting an unbaptized Church or authorizing unbaptized persons to baptize Thirdly Thou seest what great cause of doubt and question there is according to his opinion whether these Scriptures be the Scriptures of God and whether they have not lost their being having been so long in Babylon and in the hands of Antichristians especially if it be minded that they were by Antichristians translated into our native Tongue their translating must needs make them Antichristian and to be rejected as false as well as their Baptisme Where will J. S. be then do thou but think for the raising a new his Church and Baptisme which I would wish him and those of his way to consider of well But then in the second place God being to be sought as he holdeth in an orderly way according to what he hath declared as his judgement and this orderly way being by the Church rightly gathered and constituted to whom Christ hath committed the power Consider good Reader in the first place that if the Scriptures be not Antichristian as his opinion inforceth that they have in them no ground or warrant by any example or precept for such an unbaptized Church neither can such a supposed Church be orderly constituted or the proceed thereof orderly the Scripture being wholly silent concerning any such thing This conceit of so making Christs Church and so making Baptisme being a meer Popish Tenent and the proceed therin like unto theirs in such like cases So as this Ordinance of Christs Baptisme being according to his opinion destroyed in Babylon and there being no orderly Church of Christ in earth to be found as he holdeth nor no Christ Moses Eliah or Prophet from heaven appearing nor yet any that by Signes and Miracles can prove the truth of their Mission I conceive it necessarily followeth and I willingly leave all men free to judge of it That J. S. is yet for all his clearing in a great straight and under a dark cloud out of and from under which he will not be able to get unlesse he do as Saul did make bold to do that which is unwarrantable and so running before he be sent and doing that which God never spake any word about the which he shall do well to take further knowledge of CHAP. III. Containing a defence of the judgement of such as hold that Baptisme hath continued Gods Ordinance in the Apostacie of Antichrist notwithstanding the corruptions attending of it in way of Answer to the Cavils and Exceptions of J. S. against the same BEfore that J. S. could finish the matter in the former Chapter and clear it as he pretended to do he found some Tenents in his way as opposite to that pretended truth but indeed errour which he endeavoured to maintain the which he setteth down thus First such as stand for a personall succession Again thus A word or two to such as hold succession in the defection of Antichrist Again Such as hold Baptisme by personall succession as in pag. 39. may be seen To which I answer First That sure J. S. mistaketh himself being never able to make it appear that any person or persons do so hold So I might let him alone to contest with his own fancie But in as much as he may happily have met with some that hold the continuation of Baptisme as Gods Ordinance in that defection not in way of succession that being no way proper to an Ordinance returning home unto himself his phrase of succession as darkening the truth I shall apply my self to take knowledge of his scope and purpose First he saith Such have received a sufficient Answer that hold so in what he had writ before To which I answer Indeed if he might be his own Judge in his own cause it might be so It were much better that others should have said so and praised him then he thus his own work But what was it that he had proved before in his conceit That all the world are unbaptized onely he and those of his way Is he not a mighty Champion thus to nullifie and make void the Christianity of all Christians in the world It is more then Turks could ever do by all the force and power they had He hath yet a word or two more to say to such as hold contrary to his erroneous conclusion that Baptisme hath continued and doth continue Gods Ordinance c. And first he begins by way of Querie thus If they mean by defection the outward form of worship and Government Ecclesiasticall as he thinketh they do Answ Is defection of so hard and doubtfull sense with J. S. as he should querie thus and go by thinking he may know that defection or defilement pollution or corruption are of one nature and that there is a reall difference betwixt corruption and the thing corrupted between defilement and the thing defiled betwixt Religion and Gods Ordinances and mens additions to and detractions from the same They mean that the Ordinances and in particular Baptisme hath continued from the Apostles downward thorow all the apostacie and defilements that have attended Religion and it to this day Just as Circumeision of old did continue Gods Ordinance in the apostacie and defilements of the ten Tribes under Jeroboam and likewise in the time of Manasses in Judah This is their meaning and what then Then saith he all the power and authority that ever carried out any Administration or constituted Ordinance depends on the same Just as Circumcision depended on the Calves in Jeroboams apostacie And if so saith he then the Ordainer and Ordinance ordained are both of one nature Yea they are both of one nature God is the Author he is spirituall and Baptisme the thing ordained so also If one be saith he Antichristian the other is also Antichristian Strong lines without proof What if neither be Antichristian neither the Authour nor
a truth fully held forth in the holy Scriptures that though all men since their fall in Adam Christ the new or second Adam excepted have been and are born in sinne and so under wrath that way yet a number have obtained such free grace as that though in another consideration they are and have been by generation the seed of promise holy and such as God hath and doth owne for his children even as hee did Isaack and the seed of Israel of old and the seed of the beleeving Gentiles who are under mercie and grace by promise as they are under sinne and wrath the other way And were and are high in the account of God what ever meane account J. S. hath of them of all which and who and what to beleeve let the upright heart to God judge as J. S. in the end of his Reason setteth down thinking belike he had said something that had concluded all But alas how farre these weak and inconsiderate reasons are from effecting what the Author of them intendeth any one that is not of a very childish understanding may be able to discerne for sure men must be childish indeed that in a matter of such weight and concernment as is their outward Christianity and relation to Christ that way shall by such reasons be so swayed as to renounce and reject the same CHAP. II. Containing a discovery of the vaine pretence of J. S. of finding Baptisme now lost and fallen out of the world as hee holdeth in the holy Scriptures of God I. S. At the end of pag. 37. saith That the substance of his former discourse had been about the subjects of Baptisme in which if any please to beleeve his own witnesse in his owne cause hee hath disproved the Baptisme of two sorts of persons First of beleevers infants Secondly the Baptisme in the defection of Antichrist being Baptisme in infancie also So as like a work-man indeed he hath overthrown the outward Christianity and relation to Christ that way priviledges of grace and Saintship and what not all which are of much concernment every manner of way unto men and that of all persons in the world onely those few so of late baptized by totall dipping Is not this Goliah like and can any marvell that we poore Israelites thus stripped and left naked are offended and complain being such losers and turned out of all Had he any great reason to complain as he doth in his Epistle and elsewhere in his book again and againe as pag. 40. Some have so wide mouthes open against them that wished them ever well Well indeed to unchristian them and to strip them of all relation to Christ externally quit them of all interest in the Covenant of God yea making them as without God in the world so casting them out that Ephes 2. 12. 1 Sam. 26. 19. they may goe and serve other gods And can he think much that they complaine of wrong What have they more He saith he will leave them to God to whom they must be accomptable for all their hard words But what are those hard words surely such as these that they say their way and course is erroneous a new invention having evill consequences attending of it that they are light and mutable in their courses and very censorious and is all this so great a matter and hard to be born Are not his words or those of his way farre more easie that condemns all the people and servants of Jesus Christ in the world for unbaptized the course and way of all Churches reformed or separate as Idolatrous and not of God only those of his way excepted though the said persons or Churches be endued with never so lively graces and walk never so sincerely and uprightly with good conscience in the way God hath made known to them But saith he I leave them to God to whom they shall give account for all their hard words Surely he forgetteth and doth not think of the hard censures and grievous condemnations that he and those of his way give and lay upon all that follow not their erroneous way and course In way of further complaint he saith Men doe as the Tyrants did of old And old story indeed and ill applyed but though he be not he saith certain of the truth of it he is certain that some are little better minded that labour to cover the godly with such filth as they vomit out of their self-sick stomacks To all which I say its more easie to see a moat in anothers eye then a beam in their own how doth J. S. and those of his way cover the godly and the Churches of Christ with the filth of their vomit which they cast forth and yet he wipeth his mouth as innocent and wonderfully as we see complaineth of others that have more cause to complaine of him for he can lay heavie burthens and grievous to be born making men no Christiant no Churches of Christ but Synagogues of Satan of the world Antichristians Idolaters and what not all which men must bear though never so innocent but now the least of these he will not indure to touch with his finger but he cryeth out bitterly but as their dealing is unequall in this even so it is in other things But now to return and leave this digression In pag. 38. he telleth us That this falling out so How is that That that the Baptisme of all persons and Churches in the world those few of his way excepted being void and null an Idoll and none of Christs It followeth saith he that we are now to seek for the Lords true Baptisme This is sure a wonderfull case indeed that the Baptisme of Christ should be thus lost and fallen out of the world Now saith he in a case so difficult as some would make it two things in speciall are to be inquired into First How or where to finde it Secondly how it may be obtained being found For the first If any Ordinance be so deceased and lost as we do not know where it is afoot in Gods way in the world a rare case Baptisme is thus lost and deceased in his opinion so as those that find themselves unbaptized may be made partakers of it What are they to do They are to go to Christ and his Apostles as the godly then did But I say Christ his Apostles have left the world and are in heaven I but saith he That is to the Scriptures which are the lively Oracles of God Ans And so they were when Christ and the Apostles were on the earth The spirit saith he speaking in them to a beleever Answ They stand in the place of Christ for advice and counsell and so they did then for both our Lord and the Apostles sent us to them and spake nothing but according to them But what of this Truly nothing to the purpose nor yet that which is added Namely That they have ability to furnish a man of faith
with all truth as the Scriptures quoted compared together will prove To which I say they do easily and fully prove the same and there were never any that held the perfection of the Scriptures that did deny the same yet is J. S. never the nearer for all his pains in multiplying expressions to make the matter seem something when indeed it is nothing at all to purpose For To the Law and the Testimony we are to go And in Esay 8. 20. 2 Pet. 1 19. difficult cases To take heed to the Word as to a Light that enlighteneth in darknesse Now first I say the Scripture giveth no light at all concerning such a cessation of the Church and Ordinances Nay it is against the light of the Scriptures to beleeve any such thing Jesus Christ having said That hell gates shall not prevail against his Church and Matth. 16. Matth. 28. 20. having also promised his presence for preservation and continuation for ever Secondly I say it is but directively that the Scriptures do furnish men in all cases now their direction in this case it is to the Church 2 Tim. 3. 17 18. and to the ministery of man for the enjoying and being made partakers of the holy Ordinances of God The holy Scriptures of old in a like manner stood in the stead of Moses and the Prophets in a sense And yet the heathen were to repair to Jerusalem for the Ordinances as they did and did not act Esay 8. 20. 2 Pet. 1. 19. 2 Chro. 6. 32. them themselves with the help of the Law The Scriptures in a sense stood in the stead of Christ and the Apostles yet the people must go to John yea our Lord himself that he might fulfill righteousnesse Matth. 3. 15. must go to him Cornelius must send for Peter Paul must Act. 10. 32. Act. 9. 10. have Ananias and so such as attain the knowledge of the truth they are to go to the Church and Ministery of man appointed of God and so that way to be added to the Church and made partakers of the holy Ordinances of God for it is most certain the Act. 2. 47. Scriptures act nothing neither can they they onely direct in righteousnesse 2 Tim. 3. 16. their directions is always as aforesaid and no otherwise Thirdly I say it is not true that the Scriptures are in the stead of the holy Ministery ordained by God The Scriptures were not in the stead of the Priests in case of Sauls sacrificing nor in Vzzia the King his burning incense to inable them to do as they did 1 Sam. 13. 12. The Scriptures were not in stead of circumcised Jews unto the Heathen to inable them or make them capable of building the Temple 2 Chron. 26. 17 18. They were not in stead of John Baptist to our Lord They were not in stead of Peter to Cornelius and his friends As it is not in stead of Ezra 4. 3. Matth. 3. 15. Acts 10. 32. Christ the Apostles or holy Ministery to an unbaptized person or persons to inable them warrantably to Baptize and so without Commission to raise this Ordinance a new so lost and deceased out of the world according to his opinion The Scriptures which he quoteth I shall set down and they are these 2 Tim. 3. 15. 2 Pet. 1. 19. Rom. 16. 25 c. Now I appeal to the indifferent Reader whether these Scriptures all or any of them are any other then directive Again whether their direction it be not to a precedent Stative Church and ministery of man appointed by God as formerly under Moses and the Prophets so in this latter dispensation under Christ and the Apostles as is before declared Lastly whether these Scriptures or any of these or all of these compared together do give direction to a person unbaptized himself to baptize either himself or others and whether they do not rather testifie against such usurpation of Gods holy things and running before they be sent in thus doing a thing that never came into Jerem. 23. 21. the minde of God much lesse did he require it at their hands Jerem. 32. 35. J. S. proceedeth and saith By all which we see that all things are contained in the Scriptures Answ Yea in the way of direction and therefore such practices as are without the direction of the Scripture are unwarrantable such as is their casting away as Null their present Baptisme because of some corruptions that did attend it and beginning it again with greater corruptions namely by an unbaptized person without Commission acting of it Here he addeth many good words in commendation of the Scriptures As containing all things concerning faith and obedience as being the Propheticall mouth of Christ to which all must repair unto and all Doctrines and practices must be tryed by and an Angell from heaven is not to be beleeved but as they speak according to it All which is directive as I said before And what then Truly nothing Though he go over the same matter again with some different expressions and some of them improper carrying a shew of favouring his conceit and what he would have As where he saith The Scriptures is the onely place How is this proper or true unlesse he mean in a directive way Where any Ordinance of God in case aforesaid that is of cessation and losse of being again when or wheresoever any of these meaning Ordinances of God cannot be found What then We are saith he to go to the Scriptures directly and recover the same again as Cant. 1. 7. Esay 8. 19 20. Answ All this is but the same over again we are to go to the Scripture for direction if the case were so the Scripture directing and not acting as Esay 8. 19 20. the Church acting according to that direction and therefore persons are sent thither according to that Cant. 1. 7. alleadged which is according to the direction of Scripture which alwayes sendeth men to the Church in such cases so as in this copiousnesse he doth but puzzle his Reader to make him beleeve what he is never able to prove He proceedeth saying Thus having found out the place or subject very improper expressions Is not the Scripture the ground and foundation of all Ordinances in a directive way Did ever any Christian question it much lesse deny it That he should with often going over the same and with such improper expressions and far fetches seek to make it appear as a discovery of truth not known or at least not assented unto sure he had some further drift in it then ordinary In the next place he saith It is to be known how they that want it may come orderly by it For saith he though God hath joyned his Word and Ordinances together yet he hath injoyned an orderly way for his people to come to injoy them Answ I would fain know to what end all the former matter serveth if so be God require an