that faith was requisite to make a true member of the church here he saith that without faith a mēber cā not be knowen much lesse therfore made 3 The Rhemistes confesse in these very words that in the raigne of their imagined and supposed Antichrist the externall state of the Romane church and publike entercourse of the faithfull with the same shall cease and that there shal be onely a communion in hart with it and practise in secret Annot. in 2. Thess. 2. Sect. 10. Where then I pray you shal be your tabernaculum in sole ciuitas in monte candela splendens in domo your tabernacle in the sunne your Citie in a mountaine your candle shining in the house that is say you in the world Math. 5. Sect. 3. Ergo out of their owne wordes we conclude that the church shall not alwayes be visible and notoriously knowen in the world Lastly we will conclude with Augustine Aliquando in sola domo Noah Ecclesia erat in solo Abraham Ecclesia erat in solo Loth domo eius Ecclesia erat in solo Henoch Ecclesia erat Sometime the church was onely in Henochs house sometime onely in Noah some time in Abraham alone in Loth his house How then hath the church bene alwayes so visible and notoriously knowē to the world when it hath layen hidden some time in one house yea in one man THE SECOND QVESTION whether the Church may erre THis questiō is deuided into two parts First whether the catholike church may erre at all or not Secondly whether the visible church vpon earth may fall away from God into Idolatrie and apostasie THE FIRST PART WHETHER THE Catholike Church may erre in doctrine The Papistes THey do teach that the catholike church can not possiblie erre not onely in matters absolutely necessarie to saluation but not in any thing which error 16 it imposeth and commaundeth whether it be conteined in the word of God or not yea that it can not erre in these things which beside the word of God are commaunded And by the church here they do meane not onely the Pastors and Bishops but the whole companie of the faithfull so that neither that which all the pastors of the church do teach can be erronious nor what is receiued generally of the whole church Bellarm. de Eccles. lib. 3. cap. 14. Rhemist annot an Iohan. 14. ver 16. 1 The church say they is the pillar of truth 1. Tim. 3. Ergo it can not erre We answere First it is no otherwise the pillar of truth then a virgin without spot and wrincle Ephe. 5.27 As that place doth not priuiledge the church frō all sinne and imperfection of life so neither doth this place exempt her from all error in doctrine Secondly she is called the pillar of truth in respect of vs because the truth is preserued in the true church and is not els where to be found not because the truth dependeth vpon the church for S. Paule sendeth not Timothie in this place to learne of the church as though it could not possiblie be deceiued but saith he these things haue I written that thou mayst know how to behaue thy selfe in the house of God ver 14.15 Ergo the word of God is the rule of truth and the church hath no warrant to be kept from error but as she is lead and gouerned by the word of God Thirdly the argument foloweth not for Peter was a pillar and yet erred Gallat 2.9.11 2 They heape many arguments together The church hath the spirite of God to lead it into all truth the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it Math. 16. God hath geuen it Apostles teachers Euangelistes to keepe it in the truth Ephe. 4. Christ hath prayed for the church that it may be sanctified in the veritie Iohn 17. Christ prayed that Peters faith should not faile Ergo the church can not erre Rhemens annot 1. Timoth. 3.15 We answere euery one of the elect hath the spirite of God neither shall the gates of hell preuaile against the faith of any one of the elect to ouerthrow it Christ prayeth for euery one of his Disciples that they may be sanctified in the truth Iohn 17.20 wherefore it foloweth as well by these arguments that no one faithfull man can fall into error The pastors and teachers so long as they folow the Apostles doctrine may keepe the church from error but it is not gathered out of that place Ephe. 4. that the pastors if they swarue from Gods word can not erre Concerning Peter Christ prayed for him that his faith should not faile in that greeuous tentation which he fell into Secondly he prayed not for him as gouernour of the church but as he prayeth for euery faithfull man Iohn 17.23 Thirdly for all this prayer Peter erred Gallat 2. 3 This argument was vsed in the Councell of Basill the Church is without spot and wrincle Ephe. 5.27 Ergo without error We aunswere First S. Paule speaketh there of a glorious church such as it shal be in the kingdome of heauen not of the church as it is vpon earth so Reuel 7.14 The elders which sat round about the throne which are the Saintes in heauen were seene in long white robes which they had washed white in the bloud of the Lambe 2 It foloweth out of this place that the church is as well without sinne as free from error which the diuines in the Councell did also graunt But seeing by their owne confession euery member of the church being clothed in this mortall flesh sinneth how can the church be without sinne If the church consist of men and all men are sinners how is the church free If all the partes and members be sinnefull how is not the whole also polluted with sinne If all the partes of the body be sicke and diseased how can the whole be sound The church also is not ashamed to confesse her selfe to be blacke Cant. 1.5 she shal be made bewtifull and glorious without all spot blemish in the kingdome of God and euen now also is made righteous and iust before God through Christ not because she hath no sinne but because it is remitted and although some errors and imperfections remaine yet shall they be no hinderaunce to her saluation The Protestantes WE doubt not to say that the church of God may erre in some points not necessarie to saluation but can not fall cleane away from God into any dānable error Fulk annot in Ephe. 5. ver 29. That the church may erre as we say we do shew it thus and by the Church we vnderstand the whole companie and congregation the pastors with the people 1 When our Sauiour Christ suffred the church erred in faith Ergo it may erre the proposition is thus proued The church was either in the Scribes and Pharisies or els in the Apostles but both of them erred they in putting Christ to death the other in their incredulitie not beleeuing rightlie in the
mysterie of antiquitie which began euen to worke in his dayes 2. Thess. 2.7 Secondly we also aunswere that all these things the authors of their sectes the time the persons that withstood them may manifestly be detected first concerning the time we haue a manifest Prophesie Apocal. 20. that Sathan should be bound a thousand yeares and afterward let loose when no doubt Antichrist should begin to shew him selfe to the world Cōcerning this space of a thousand yeares there are two probable opinions some thinke they are to begin immediatly after our Sauiour Christes time and so counting a thousand yeares all which time Sathan must be bound then Antichrist should begin to appeare Thus Iohn Wicliffe expoundeth it Others say the thousand yeares ought to begin after the three hundred yeares expired of persecution for all that while it is most like Sathan was let loose when he raged with opē mouth like a Lion against the Church and Saints of God of this opinion was Walter Brute somewhat after Wicliffes time who by this meanes maketh the Prophesie of Daniell of 1290. dayes and that in the Apocalipse 12. of 1260. dayes to agree with the thousand yeares of Sathans binding for taking euery day for a yeare we shall come to .1290 yeares after Christ when the thousand yeares must be expired beginning from the three hundred yeares of persecution If we count the thousand yeares from Christ we shall come to the time of Hildebrand the seuenth who was Pope of Rome a thousand yeares after Christ and vpward by whom the mariage of Ministers is thought first to haue bene forbidden if we begin after the ceasing of persecution which continued three hundred yeares we shall fall into the yeare .1300 about the time of Iohn Wicliffe whē the great rabble of Monkes and Friers began to swarme and superstition to encrease But we will take a litle payne briefly to touch the authors of many superstitions in Poperie and of their erronious and hereticall opinions Anno. 420. Zosimus Bishop of Rome did chalenge a prerogatiue aboue other Churches that it might be lawfull to make appeales frō other Churches to that sea and to set the better colour vpon it he falsely alledged a decree of the Nicene Coūcell but there was no such thing found there wherefore it was decreed in the Councell of Carthage at that time that none should appeale ouer the seas to Rome Bonifice the third purchased of the wicked Emperour Phocas the title of vniuersall Bishop Transubstantiation was first concluded against Berengarius anno 1062. vnder Leo the ninth but not publikely enacted before anno 1216. vnder Innocentius the third The Dominicke Friers brought in the same time and their Sect established by Innocentius the third Auricular confession also was brought in anno 1215. vnder the same Pope Mariage first prohibited by Nicholas the secōd Alexander the second Gregorie the seuenth about the yeare 1070. The Communion in one kinde forged and inuented and decreed in the Councell of Constance not aboue two hūdred yeares ago By these few examples it may appeare that it is false which the Iesuite saith that the authors of their sectes and heresies cā not be shewed Now we will briefly declare what oppugners and gainsayers they haue had in all ages since their grossest opinions began to be receiued Such were Bertramus and Berēgarius about pope Hildebrands time that mightily impugned the grosse opinion of Trāsubstantiatiō Robertus Gallus 1291. Robert Grosthead Bishop of Lincolne who was called malleus Romanorū the mallet or hammar of the Romanes anno 1250. Franciscus Petrarcha 1350. Iohannes de rupe Scissa who Prophesied against the Pope 1340. with many other which ceased not to crye out against the abhominable vices and erronious opinions of the Church of Rome Wherefore it is a great vntruth which the Iesuite doth so stifly auouch that we can not set down the pedegree discent of their church and faith and how it hath continually bene resisted 3 Now whereas they say that they can name the ringleaders of our sect we haue none other maisters and authors of our faith then our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles by whose holy writings we refuse not to be tryed But you flye from the light you disgrace the Scriptures making them imperfect and insufficient this the true Disciples of Christ would not do you are the Disciples of Christ as the Pharisies bragged that they were the Disciples of Moses And as then the true church was not in those that sat in Moses chaire though they could alledge great antiquitie but in Christ and his Apostles so is not now the true Church to be discerned by custome or number of yeares but by that truth which was taught and preached by our blessed Sauiour and his Apostles Of Vniuersalitie Note 2. OVr Church is vniuersall say they both in respect of time person place error 19 it hath alwayes bene in the world in all countrys and nations it hath florished Ergo it is the true Church That it is vniuersall they first proue by the name of Catholike which is say they by Gods prouidence appropriat to them which name they affirme without ground to haue bene imposed by the Apostles vpon true beleeuers Rhem. in Act. cap. 11. Sect. 4. We aunswere First the name of Christians is a more honorable title then the name of Catholikes for it is manifest Act. 11.26 that this name was vsed in the Apostles time and by the Apostles them selues allowed but it is not certaine that the name Catholike came from the Apostles Againe many heretikes chalenged this name to be called Catholikes who did not so easily obtaine to be called Christians which ancient and honorable name the Papistes do despise for in Italie and at Rome it is vsed as a name of reproch to signifie a dolt or a foole Fulk in Acts. 11.26 2 We say that you doe vsurpe this name as the Donatistes in Augustines time would be called Catholikes for what is the name of Catholike without the Catholike doctrine They are the true Catholikes that professe the auncient and Apostolike faith to vs therefore be it knowen to you this name of better right appertaineth then to you ô ye Papists yet we haue better argumentes to proue our Church by then by sillables and titles Quasi nos saith Augustine huius nominis testimonio nitamur ad demonstrandam Ecclesiam non promissis Dei As though we saith he do leane vpon this name to proue our Church by and not rather vpon the promises of God Secondly they proue their vniuersalitie by the multitude of people that haue receiued the Romish faith and their Church say they hath replenished the greatest part of the world They would proue this by the propagation of the Church in the Apostles time in Tertulian Irenaeus Hierome Augustine yea and afterward in Gregories dayes yea and now also besides many great countryes in Europe they haue of their church in
Notes we would desire no better arguments then those which our aduersaries alleadged against vs for first our notes are proper onely to the Church and cannot bee found in any place where the Church of God is not Secondly they are most notorious markes and a man by the Scriptures may more easely knowe what true doctrine is and which are the right Sacraments then which is the true Church Thirdly these markes can not be absent from the Church but doe alwayes accompanie it and it is no longer a true Church then it hath those markes 2 We are able out of the Scriptures to proue these marks which may stand in stead of many reasons Iohn 10. my sheepe heare my voyce Ephes. 5. clensing it by the washing of water through the word Ergo the Word and Sacraments are true notes of the Church Bellarmine answereth to the first place that the hearing of the word is not a visible note of the Church but a signe vnto euery man whereby he may knowe his election Wee replie agayne looke which way a man is knowne to bee a member of the Church by the same way the Church also it selfe is discerned if the hearing of the word doe make one a sheep of Christ then doth it also shew which is the flocke and fould of Christ As I knowe my hand or foote to bee a part of my bodie because it hath life and motion of the bodie euen so the bodie is discerned from a carkas because it moueth and liueth To the second place he answereth very simply that the Apostle there sheweth not which is the Church but what good Christ hath wrought for his Church We replie againe But the Church is best knowne by the benefites that Christ hath bestowed vpon it amongst the which the Word and the Sacraments are not the least Ergo by these the Church is knowne and in that place by the Apostle described And let the reader iudge whether that place of the Apostle where there is direct mention made of the word and sacraments be not fitly applied to our purpose concerning the description of the Church 3 Let Augustine speake In scripturis didicimus Christum in scripturis didicimus ecclesiam epistol 166. In the scripture we doe learne Christ in the scripture let vs likewise learne the Church His argument is this Looke how Christ is knowne so is his Church but Christ is onely knowne by his word Ergo so is his Church The fourth question of the authoritie of the Church THe Papists affirme that the authoritie of the Church consisteth in these fiue poynts First in authorising the scriptures and defining which are Canonicall Secondly in giuing the sense of the scripture Thirdly in determining matters besides scripture Fourthly in making lawes constitutions for the Church Fiftly in exercising of discipline Concerning the two last we doe not greatly stand with them We acknowledge the Church hath authoritie to make decrees and constitutions but so as the Apostles did Visum est nobis spiritui sancto It seemed good to vs and the holy Ghost the Church must be directed by the wisedome of the spirit speaking in the scriptures We also acknowledge the holesome power of the Church in exercising of holy discipline but it must be done in the name and power of Christ. 1. Cor. 5.4 not according to the will of men Concerning the two first we haue alreadie shewed that neither the Church doth giue authoritie to the word of God but doth take her authoritie from thē for the scriptures are of sufficient credite of themselues 1. controu quaest 4. Neither that the sense of scripture dependeth vpon the interpretation of the scripture but that the word expoundeth it selfe 1. controu quaest 6. There remaineth therefore onely one poynt to be discussed of the authoritie of the Church namely in deciding of matters beside the scriptures which are of two sorts either necessarie appertayning to faith or indifferent concerning ceremonies of both these in their order THE FIRST PART WHETHER THE CHVRCH hath authoritie in matters of faith beside the scriptures The Papists WE ought to take our faith and al necessarie things of saluation at the hands error 24 of our superiours Rhemist Act. 10. sect 8. In poynts not decided by scripture wee must aske counsaile of the Church Praefat. sect 25. The Church is the onely piller and stay to leane vnto in all doubts of doctrine without the which there can be no certaintie nor securitie we must therefore beleeue it and trust it in all things annot 1. Timoth. cap. 3. sect 9. Yea it hath authoritie say they to make newe Articles of faith as in the Councell of Constance it was decreed to be necessarie to saluation to beleeue the Pope to be head of the Church In the Councell of Basile it was made an Article of the faith to beleeue that the Councell was aboue the Pope and therfore Pope Eugenius in not obeying the Councell was adiudged to be an heretike 1 Vpon these words in the Gospel Iohn 15.27 the spirit shall testifie of me and you shall beare witnesse also they conclude thus Ergo the testimonie of the trueth ioyntly consisteth in the holy Ghost and Prelates of the Church Rhemist Iohn 15. sect 8. We answere The witnesse of the spirit and of the Apostles is all one witnesse for the spirit first testifieth the trueth to the Apostles inwardly and the Apostles inspired by the spirite did witnesse it outwardly so the Pastors of the Church witnessing with the spirit which is not now inspired by reuelation but onely found in the scriptures are to bee heard but if the spirit testifie one thing in the word and they testifie another there we must leaue them 2 The Church erreth not Ergo we must heare her in all things Rhem. 1. Timoth 3. sect 9. We answere First the Church may erre if she followe not the scriptures Proued before 2. controu quaest 2. Secondly so long as the Church heareth Christs voyce we are likewise to heare hers and so long as she is preserued from error she will not swarue from Christs precepts neither impose any thing vpon her children without the warrant of her spouse The Protestantes THat the Church hath no such power to ordaine articles of faith or impose matters to be beleeued necessarie to saluation not contayned or prescribed in the holy scriptures We prooue it thus and wee are sure that the true Church of Christ will neuer chalenge any such prerogatiue 1. All truthes and verities in the scriptures are not so necessary to saluation that the ignorance thereof should bring perill of damnation Ergo much lesse are any verities out of scripture of any such necessitie the first is manifest for to know the iust chronologie of time or space of yeares from the beginning of the world to Christ is a veritie in scripture yet not necessary so to beleeue that Marie continued a virgin euer after the birth of our Lord was thought by
men nor Apostolike giftes wee are not to doubt but that this promise and prophesie of the vniuersall preaching of the Gospell is performed already Argum. 2. It appeareth in Ecclesiasticall histories that the Apostles dispersed themselues into all partes of the worlde euery where preaching the Gospell Thomas preached to the Parthians Medes Persians also to the Germanes Simon Zelotes in Mauritania Africa and in Britania Iudas called Thaddaeus in Mesopotamia Mark in Aegypt Bartholomaeus to the Indians Andrew preached to the Scythians Sogdians Aethopians So that there were fewe or no knowen countreyes in the world which heard not of the fame of the Gospell But here two things must be obserued First that the Gospel was to bee preached in the habitable or knowen world the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Many countreyes are inhabited now that were not habitable then or at the least not inhabited wherefore it was sufficient that the people of the world heard of the Gospel howsoeuer afterward they were propagated into other vnknowen places Secondly as Augustine sayth Omnes gentes promissae sunt non omnes homines omnium gentium All nations were promised to heare of the Gospel not all the men and inhabitants of euery nation And so we doubt not but the Apostles did lay the foundation of fayth through the whole worlde and were first planters of the Churches in euery nation But their plantings were watered and encreased and continued by others Wherefore seeing the world hath once already beene generally lightened with the truth of the Gospell we are not to looke any more for a solemne legacie and ambassage to be sent from the Lord vnto all nations But those countreyes rather which somtime had the trueth and now haue lost it ought now to seeke vnto those places that haue it as the Queene of Saba went a long iourney to heare Salomons wisdome They therefore that yet doe expect an vniuersall preaching may sooner see Christ comming in the cloudes then haue their expectation satisfied THE SECOND QVESTION OF THE comming of Henoch and Elias before the day of iudgement The Papists error 107 THeir common and receiued opinion is that Henoch and Elias doe yet liue in their bodies in Paradise and shall come in person to oppose themselues against Antichrist and by their preaching to conuert the Iewes Rhemist Apocal. 11. sect 4. Argum. Malachie 4.5 I will send you Eliah the Prophet before the great and fearefull day of the Lorde These are also the two witnesses spoken of Apocal. 11.3 Which shall be slaine and rise vp againe the third day Ergo Eliah and Henoch shall come before the day of the Lorde Bellarm. de Roman pontif 3.6 Ans. First the prophesie of Malachie was fulfilled in Iohn Baptist who came in the spirite of Elias as it is thrise in the Gospell applied once by the Angel Luk. 1.16 twise by our Sauiour Christ Matth. 11.14 17.13 Bellarmine saith it is not properly vnderstoode of Iohn Baptist but onely in an allegorie First the Prophet speaketh of the great and fearefull day of the Lord but the comming of Christ was the acceptable time Ans. Here the Iesuite bewrayeth great ignorance As though the comming of Christ in the flesh as it brought comfort to the Elect to as many as were ordeined to saluation was not also hastening of the iudgement of God against the wicked and therefore Iohn saith The axe was laide to the roote of the tree Matth. 3.10 and that Christ came with his fanne in his hand verse 12. The Apostle Heb. 12.26 applieth that saying of the Prophet Once againe wil I shake not onely the heauens but the earth to the preaching of the Gospell wee see then in what sence the first comming of Christ is called a fearefull and terrible day Ans. Secondly by the two witnesses is vnderstood the small yet sufficient number of the true seruants of God which shall witnesse the truth euen in the whottest persecution of Antichrist there is no mention made of Henoch or Elias And if you will needs vnderstand that literally of their rising againe why not the rest also how fire shall proceede out of their mouthes to consume the wicked and they shall turne water into blood The meaning is nothing else but that God will alwaies haue faithfull witnesses in his Church which shall alwaies stand vp in the stead of the Prophets and holy men gone before The Protestants LIke as the Pharisies deceiued the Iewes with vaine expectation of Elias and so hindred their beliefe in Christ so the Papists would not haue men to acknowledge the manifestation of Antichrist vnder this false pretence that Henoch and Elias must first come before Antichrist bee reuealed which wee doe hold as a Iewish fable and popish dreame Argum. 1. The Prophesie of Elias comming is properly fulfilled in Iohn Baptist and therefore wee are not to looke for any other accomplishment thereof neither now is there any Paradise remaining but Heauen 2. Corinth 12.4 And to affirme that Henoch and Elias went vp to Heauen in their bodies before the ascension of Christ out of Scripture it cannot be proued it is euident that they were taken vp aliue into heauen but not that they continued aliue Argum. 2. The varietie of opinions concerning the personall appearance of Henoch and Elias declare that it is an vncertaine thing and but deuised of men Hilarye saith they shal be Moses and Elias Chrysostome granteth that Elias shall come but not Henoch Iustine thinketh that not onely Henoch and Elias are aliue but all those whose bodies rose at the resurrection of Christ Hippolytus is of opinion that Iohn the Diuine shall come with them and some say Ieremie also whose death is not read of Fulk Apocal. 11. sect 4. And thus it is no meruaile if men run mad as it were in their foolish conceites hauing no warrant for their opinions out of Scriptures The nation of the Iewes wee grant according to the manifest prophesie of Saint Paul shall in the end be conuerted but not in such sort by the personall preaching of Moses and Elias for the Apostle setting downe at large the mysterie of their calling would not haue left out so necessarie a thing Augustine by the two witnesses vnderstandeth the two testaments the Old and the new But hee denieth vtterly that any shall rise before the comming of Christ as the Apostle saith 1. Corinth 15.23 The first fruites is Christ Then they that are Christs at his comming but not before Vnde saith he excluditur omnis suspicio quorundam qui putant hos duos testes duos viros esse ante aduentum Christi coelum in nubibus ascendisse Their suspition therefore or opinion is vtterly excluded which thinke these two witnesses to bee two men which should ascend into heauen before the comming of Christ. Augustine we see is flat against them THE THIRD PART WHETHER THE most grieuous persecutions that euer were shall be toward the end
it hath nothing to do to iudge of Scripture being the seate of Antichrist neither is the authoritie of that Church to be credited but rather suspected and mistrusted 2 There are certaine writings of the Prophetes not canonicall and other writings of some that were no Prophetes made canonicall Ergo the Church hath authoritie to iudge of Scripture sic Stapleton For the first where he obiecteth that there are many writings of the Prophetes as of Solomon Nathan Ahiia Ieedo 2. Chronic. 9.29 that are lost and if they were extant should not be receiued We aunswere First it is not to be doubted of but some part of the canonicall Scripture is lost Secōdly how proueth he that if they were extant they were not to be acknowledged for Scripture To the second that bookes not made by Prophets are iudged canonicall as of Tobie Iudith We aunswere that these bookes ought not to be canonicall neither that euer they were so taken till of late it was decreed by Councels of no great antiquitie for in the Laodicene Councell and other auncient Councels they were deemed not to be canonicall 3 Certaine bookes of the new Testament before doubted of as the Epistle to the Hebrues the Apocalipse the 2. Epistle of Peter the second of Iohn are receiued into authoritie by the Church and other bookes as the Gospell of Thomas Mathias Andrew Peter were reiected by the authoritie of the Church We answere First we deny not but that the Church is to discerne betweene the true Scriptures forged bookes but this she doth not of her own authoritie but folowing the direction of Gods spirite speaking in those writings for the Church looking into the sacred and diuine matter of the Apostles writings was moued to acknowledge them for the word of God though of some they were doubted of finding the other to be fabulous bookes did by the direction of the same spirite reiect them Secondly Augustine and Hierome thinke that the Canon of Scripture might be confirmed in the Apostles time Iohn being the suruiuer of thē all who both acknowledged the true writings of the Apostles and condemned the contrarie If it be so the spirite of God in the Apostles hauing determined this question already concerning the canonicall Scripture the Church hath no authoritie to alter or chaunge that decree Plura apud Whitacher quaest 3. de Scriptur cap. 5. The Protestantes WE do not despise the sentence of the Church as our aduersaries doe falsely charge vs but we confesse that it is the duetie of the Church to geue testimony to the Scriptures as the Goldsmith doth trie the gold Fulk annot 2. Gal. 2. But the Church ought not to set the Lordes stampe vpon false coyne as the Papistes do in making Apocryphall bookes canonicall Neither doe we onely beleeue the Scripture because of the Churches testimonie nor chiefly but because the spirit of God doth so teach vs and the Scriptures them selues do testifie for them selues so that euerie man is bound to acknowledge the Scripture though there were no publike approbation of the Church Fulk 2. Galat. 6. Whitacher quaest 3. cap. 1. de Scripturis We do reason thus 1 The Iesuite doth reason strongly for vs he bringeth fiue arguments to proue the Scripture to be the word of God veritas vaticiniorum the constant and perpetuall truth of the Prophecies incredibilis scriptorum conspiratio the wonderfull harmonie and consent of holy writers of the Scripture testis est Deus ipse the spirite of God is a principall witnesse vnto vs testis est ipsa Scriptura the Scripture it selfe beareth witnesse as 2. Tim. 3. all Scripture is geuen by inspiration testis est diuinorum numerus infinitus miraculorum lastly the many and great miracles wrought by the Prophetes and Apostles do testifie for the truth thereof He maketh no mention at all of the testimonie of the Church but saith the same that we hold that the spirit of God inwardly working in our harts by the Scriptures them selues which we find to be most perfect consonant true of singular maiestie doth teach vs which is the word of God Bellarmin de verbo Dei lib. 1. cap. 2. 2 The Scripture geueth authoritie to the Church Ergo the Church geueth not authoritie to the Scripture the first we proue by our aduersaries own confession for being asked how they know that the Church erreth not they alledge such places of Scripture as Math. 28.20 I am with you to the end of the world and the like how then doth the Church geue authoritie to Scripture seeing it taketh her warrant and authoritie from thence the Iesuite him selfe saith that nihil est certius vel notius Scripturis nothing is more certaine or notoriously knowen then Scripture and againe sacra Scriptura est regula credendi certissima the holy Scripture is the most certaine rule of faith Bellarm. de verbo 1.2 If the authoritie of Scripture then be most certaine what reason is it that they should depend vpon the iudgement of the Church which is nothing so certaine the lesse certaine ought rather and so doth indeed depend of the more certaine the Church vpon the Scripture not contrariwise for the Scriptures are the foundation of the Church Ephe. 2.20 3 To beleeue the Scripture is a worke of faith the Church can not infuse faith into vs but the spirite of God Ergo the spirite of God not the Church teacheth vs to beleeue Scripture argum Whitach 18. 4 If the Scriptures depend vpon the approbation of the Church then the promises of saluation and eternall life conteined in the Scriptures do so likewise but it is absurde to thinke that the promises of God do stand vpō the allowance of men Ergo neither the Scriptures argum Caluini 5 The Scripture is the chief iudge and ought so to be in all cōtrouersies we may appeale from the Church to the Scripture not from the Scripture to the Church the Church is subiect to the Scriptures the rule of faith is in the scriptures not in the Church for the cōpanie of faithful which is the Church are ruled by faith they do not ouerrule faith neither are a rule thereof the Church is a point of beliefe as in the Creede not a rule or measure thereof Ergo the Church is not the chief iudge of Scripture but it selfe to be iudged by scripture Whitach argum 16. 6 We haue euident places of scripture Iohn 5.34 saith Christ I receiue no witnes of men but the scripture is the voyce of Christ and of the same authoritie Ergo. Ver. 36. I haue a greater testimonie thē of Iohn the scriptures do testifie of me Ver. 39. The testimony of the scriptures is greater thē the record of Iohn Ergo then of the Church 1. Iohn 5.6 the spirite beareth witnesse that the spirite that is the doctrine of the spirit is the truth And. ver 9. if we receiue the witnesse of man the witnesse of God is greater Ergo not the iudgement of the Church
resurrection of Christ. Bellarmine aunswereth first that the Pharisies were priuiledged not to erre onely till the cōming of Christ. We replie againe First after Christ was come they sate in Moses chaire and Christ biddeth they should be heard Math. 23.2 if they erred not afore neither could they now for they were not displaced out of Moses chaire but the truth is they neuer had any such priuiledge not to erre Secondly if the Pharisies were now prone to error then by our aduersaries owne confession they ceased to be the church Ergo the church was not now visible for in them it was not and the Apostles fled from Christ and shifted for them selues how could then the church be visible to the world Secondly the Iesuite aunswereth concerning the Apostles First the Apostles were not yet entred into their office and Bishoprike but onely appointed to it and therefore they might erre We replie againe First they were not onely appointed Apostles but partly already they had exercised their Apostleship for they were sent forth to preach the Gospell and had power and commission to worke miracles and heale diseases Math. 10 how then is not the Iesuite ashamed to say that they were not yet Pastors nor Apostles Secondly if the Pharisies erred and the Apostles erred then all the world was in error Ergo by their saying at this instant there was no church vpon the earth which is a great absurditie for the church erreth not they say Secondly saith the Iesuite the Apostles erred not in faith they were reproued for not beleeuing the resurrection which beliefe because they had not yet receiued they could not loose it We reply First though they had not erred in any materiall point yet if there were any error at all in them it is sufficient for our purpose that they erred it is manifest for they fled away from Christ. Secondly he excuseth them for their infidelitie concerning the resurrection because this faith they had not yet receiued But had not Christ I pray you often instructed them of this matter and if this were no such error in them then Christ was to sharpe in reprouing them for their infidelitie Thirdly it appeareth that they wholly were deceiued concerning the Messiah Luke 24.21 the two Disciples say they trusted that it had bene he that should haue deliuered Israell see then what weake aunswers these are did these felowes thinke that their gloses should not be examined or that their dreames should be taken for oracles 2 The church of the Iewes erred before our Sauiour Christes comming Ergo the true church may erre The proposition is proued In the time of the raigne of good kings they did offer sacrifice vpon hill altars but onely to the Lord which was an error 2. Kings 12.3.14.4 The feast of the Passeouer was not kept so precisely according to Gods word at any time before no not in the raigne of the best kings as it was in the 18. yeare of Iosias raigne 2. King 23.22 The feast of Tabernacles had not bene so solemnly and truly kept from the dayes of Iosua as it was in Nehemiahs time Nehem. 8.18 Ergo all this while the church of the Iewes erred somewhat in the externall worship of God Fulk Ephes. cap. 5. Sect. 4. 3 Augustine saith Quomodo erit Ecclesia in isto tempore perfecta sine macula ruga cuius mēbra non mendaciter confitentur se habere peccata How can the church be perfect in this life without spot or wrincle whose members do truly confesse that they are not without sinne Ergo the church sinneth and is imperfect and why not subiect to error But in the Councell of Basill it was denied as ye heard that the church could sinne THE SECOND PART WHETHER THE visible Church may fayle vpon the earth The Papistes error 17 THey hold that it is impossible that the visible church should vtterly fayle vpon the earth and fall from God but that there shall alwayes be a visible and knowen church vpon the earth hauing a perpetuall succession of Pastors and Doctors where the true worship of God shal be preserued and kept Bellarmin lib. 3. de Eccles. cap. 13. 1 These and such places of Scripture they stand vpon Math. 16. the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it Math. 28. I wil be with you to the end of the world Psal. 88. his throne shal be as the Sunne and endure as the Moone Ergo the visible church shall not fayle vpon earth Bellarmin We aunswere that these places must be vnderstood of the catholike and vniuersall church whereof we denie not but euery true particular church is a part This church is the spouse of Christ this church shall not perish this is the kingdome of Christ with this church will he alway be present to the end of the world we denie not but that the inuisible church shall continue vpon the earth so long as the world endureth Secondly those places are vnproperly vnderstood of the visible church for therein are both good and bad how thē can that be the spouse of Christ where there are many infidels and wicked ones which haue not espoused themselues vnto him how can it be called his kingdome whereas it is not of all acknowledged But in the true catholike church all and euery one are espoused to Christ all and euery one haue the kingdome of God within them as it is Luke 17. ver 21. 2 They do abuse that place of S. Paule Ephe. 4.11 he gaue some to be Apostles some Euangelistes some pastors and teachers for the gathering together of the Saints Ergo the church shall alwayes be visible till all the Saintes are gathered together Bellarmin cap. 13. Rhemistes Ephes. 4. Sect. 5. We aunswere this place proueth that the church hath neuer wanted pastors and teachers for the continuance of the truth neither shall euer be without them as the Lord said by the Prophet Isay. 59. ver 21. My spirite which is vpō thee my words which I haue put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor the mouth of thy seede for euer We therfore denie not but that in all ages yea in the most ignoraunt times of Poperie God raised vp faithfull teachers vnto his church although they were not mitred and croziard Bishops neither could shew any outward pompe or boast of any glorious successiō Such were Gulielmus de S. Amore Arnoldus de noua villa an 1240. Berengarius Ioachim Abbas in the time of Innocentius 3. Wikclef Bruto Swinderby Badby and others about anno 1400. with many which were not knowen to the world for the truth neuer in any age wanted witnesses By the continuance of the truth and right faith we gather that there haue bene alwayes faithfull teachers though not notorious to the world and shal be but who they were and where they liued what pompe what authoritie they were of it is not materiall to know wherefore an outward visible succession
commaundement of Christ who inioyned them not to depart from Ierusalem The second Act. 6. congregate by the twelue not Peter onely for the election of Deacons The third which was holden as touching the taking away of circumcision and other ceremonies of the lawe was gathered together by a generall inspiration Act. 15.6 The fourth wherein certaine things contained in the lawe are permitted seemeth to be gathered by Iames. Act. 21.18 Vpon these reasons the Councel thus concludeth that if the Pope would resist and haue no Councel congregate yet if the greater part of the Church doe iudge it necessarie to haue a Councel the Councel may bee congregate whether the Pope will or not Ex Aenea Syluio Fox pag. 676. Col. 2. 5 Augustine saith Catholicos Episcopos partis Donati iussu imperatoris disputando inter se contulisse Breuicul collation lib. 1. cap. 1. That the Catholike Bishops and the Donatists did meete together to dispute at the commaundement of the Emperour There were in that Councel which was at Carthage of the Catholike Bishops 286. and of the Donatists 279. THE THIRD QVESTION OF WHAT PERSONS the Councel ought to consist The Papists WHereas there are foure sorts of men vsually present at Councels the Princes error 31 and Magistrates Bishops and inferiour Ministers and Priests and other lay people of all these Bishops they say onely must haue a deciding or determining voyce Priests and other learned may dispute and haue a consultatiue voyce Princes are there to defend the Councel and see order kept other of the Laitie may be there as officers and ministers as Scribes and Notaries but the suffrages and voyces must onely be giuen by Bishops Eckius loc de concil Bellarm. de concil lib. 1. cap. 15. Let vs see some of their reasons First to teach and to feede is proper for the Pastors only and to establish and decree in Councel is nothing els but to feede and teach Ergo Pastors onely must rule in Councel which none are but Bishops Soli Episcopi pastores sunt sayth the Iesuite neque laici neque ecclesiastici quicunque Onely Bishops are pastors and none other of the Clergie besides and to them onely he sayth that is to bee applyed Act. 20. Take heede to your selues and the flocke ouer the which God hath made you ouerseers I answere First what an absurd saying is this and voyde of sense that the Bishop is the onely pastor of his Diocesse and that euery Minister is not pastor in his owne parish Nay if the Iesuite would speake trueth he shall finde that popish Bishops are neither Pastors nor Doctors for the most of them neither feede nor teach And they be not ashamed to professe it Ann. 1540. or thereabout Thomas Forret Martyr being found fault withall by the Bishop of Dunkelden in Scotland because he preached so oft exhorted the Bishop agayne and wished that he did preach The Bishop answered nay nay let that bee we are not ordayned to preach and in further talke the blind blockish Bishop bewrayed his owne ignorance I thanke God sayth he that I neuer knewe what the olde and newe Testament was Thereupon rose a common prouerbe in Scotland you are like the Bishop of Dunkelden that knewe neither the old nor new lawe Fox Martyrol pag. 1266. With this blind saying of the popish Bishop our countrey men of Rhemes also doe agree which doubt not to say that many which haue no gift to preach yet for their wisedome and gouernment are not vnmeete to be Pastors and Bishops Annot. in 1. Timoth. 5. sect 13. 2 I answere the Iesuite bewrayeth his ignorance in making no difference betweene communis and propria politia ecclesiae the common and speciall policie and office of the Church for there are proper offices and dueties some of Pastors some of gouernours some of other Ministers but this office to be performed in general Councels is not proper to Pastors but common to the whole Church whereupon wee denye that it is Proprium pastorum munus suffragia ferre in concilijs It is not the proper duetie of Pastors to giue voyces and make decrees in Councels 3 By the Iesuites argument the fathers of Basile doe conclude cleane contrarie out of that place 4. Ephes. That because Christ instituted not onely Apostles and Prophets but pastors and teachers for the work of the Ministerie who doubteth say they but that the gouernance also of the Church is committed vnto others together with the Apostles And hence they inferre because the worke of the Ministerie is layd vpon the rest of the Clergie that therefore they ought not to be excluded from Councels Secondly Panormitane in the Councel of Basile thus reasoneth for Bishops that they were the pillars and keyes of heauen and therefore had onely deciding voyces Vnto him answered at that time the wise and couragious Cardinall Arelatensis shewing Augustines iudgement vpon those words I will giue thee the keyes of heauen that the iudiciall power was giuen not onely to Peter but also to the other Apostles to the whole Church the Bishops the Priests Whereupon he inferreth that if the Priests haue a iudicial power in the Church they also ought to haue a determining voyce in Councels Thirdly Lodouicus the Prothonotarie in the same Councel thus argued Albeit sayth hee Christ chose twelue Apostles and 70. Disciples notwithstanding in the setting forth of the Creede onely the Apostles were present thereby giuing example that matters of faith did pertaine onely to the Apostles and so consequently to Bishops To him Arelatensis made this answere First it followed not because the Apostles onely are named that they therefore only were present at the setting forth of the Creede for wee see that Princes beare the name and commendation of many actions which are done notwithstanding by their helpers 2. Lodouicus cannot be ignorant sayth he that there be some articles in the Creede which were not put to by the Apostles but afterward by generall Councels as that part wherein mention is made of the holy Ghost which the Councel of Lions did adde Thus much out of the Councel of Basile The Protestants confession OVr opinion grounded vpon trueth and scripture is this that not onely Bishops but all other pastors admitted to the Councel and the learned and discreete amongst the Lay men ought to haue concluding voyces in Councel and that rather the discussing and consulting of matters pertayneth to the learned Diuines the deciding to all then contrariwise First that inferiour pastors are to bee ioyned with Bishops and Prelates it was amplie proued in the Councel of Basile of the which I haue so often made mention as noble Arelatensis reasoneth thus The dignities of the fathers is not to be respected but the trueth neither will I preferre a lye of any Bishop be he neuer so rich before a veritie or a trueth of a poore Priest this is his first reason that the trueth ought to bee receiued at any mans mouth bee
scripture 1. Deut. 17.12 He that harkeneth not vnto the priest that man shal die But mark I pray you what goeth before v. 11. according to the law which they shal teach thee according to the iudgement which they shall tell thee shalt thou do see then here is no absolute iudicial power giuen to the priest but according to the law of God 2. The example of the Apostles Act. 15. is as fōdly alleadged where it was decreed saith the Iesuite that the Gētiles shuld not be burthened with ceremonies which saith hee was not determined by the scriptures but by the absolute suffrages of the Apostles Again their decrees were absolutely imposed vpon the Churches without any further examination of the Disciples Ergo we are now also absolutely bound to obey all decrees of Councels Bellar. de concil 1.18 We answere first it is false that this matter was determined without scripture for Iames alleadgeth scripture Peter thus reasoneth we beleeue through the grace of God to be saued as wel as they v. 11. therfore what need this yoke of ceremonies 2. Though there had been no scripture who seeth not that the spirit of God so ruled the Apostles that their writings and holy actions should serue for scripture vnto the ages following Thirdly the Disciples needed not to examine their decrees knowing that they were gouerned by the spirit as they themselues write It seemed good to vs and the holy Ghost yet we see the brethren of Bereae searched the scripture for the trueth of those things which the Apostles preached Act. 17.11 When they can proue such a plenarie power fulnes of the spirit in their pastors and Councels as was in the Apostles we wil also beleeue them The Protestantes WE doe firmly beleeue that neither the Church nor Councels haue any such absolute power to determine without the holy scriptures either beside or agaynst them or to binde other men to obey such decrees Neither that the true Church of God dare or will arrogate such power vnto it self But that Councels are ordayned for the discussing deciding of doubtful matters according to the scriptures and word written 1. If the Apostles preachings might bee examined according to scripture much more the acts of all other Bishops and pastors But that was lawful in the Disciples of Berea Act. 17.11 which are commended for it therefore called noble couragious Christians because of this their promptnes diligence in searching out of the truth Ergo. 2. All things necessarie to saluation to be beleeued are articles of our fayth but al such articles must be grounded vpon the word of God therfore nothing can be imposed as necessary to saluation without the word of God Wherefore it is a blasphemous saying of the papists that the Church may make new articles of fayth Rhemens annot in 1. Tim. 3. sect 9. and Eckius maintained the same poynt agaynst Luther in the disputation at Lipsia and brought forth a new article of faith agreed of in the Councel of Constance that it is de necessitate salutis of the necessitie of saluation to beleeue that the Pope is the head of the Church The fathers of Basile more modest then so concluding that it was an article of fayth to beleeue that Councels were aboue the Pope doe vse this reason those things say they which we alleadge for the superioritie of general Councels are gathered out of the sayings of our Sauiour Christ. Ergo we are al bound to obey them Therefore we conclude that the word of God only written is the rule of fayth and al things necessary to be beleeued Rom. 10.10 Fayth commeth by hearing and hearing by the word Councels are to explane and declare articles of faith not to establish new 3 Lastly we will heare Augustine speake Nec tu debes Ariminense neque ego Nicaenū tanquā praeiudicaturus proferre concilium scripturarum authoritatibus c. Neither must I alleadge the Nicen Councel nor you the Arimine I am neither bound to the one nor you to the other let the matter be tried by Scripture cont Maximu Arrianum lib. 3. cap. 14. By this fathers sentence therefore no man is bound of necessitie to be tyed to Councels but the Scripture onely is absolutely to be beleeued THE SEAVENTH QVESTION WHETHER Councels be aboue the Pope or not The Papists THis is a matter yet not fully determined amongst the Papists Neither are error 35 they all of one opinion In the Councell of Constance and Basile it was fully concluded that the Councell is aboue the Pope Gerson of Paris that was also present in the Councell of Constance and a great dooer against Iohn Hus stifly maintaineth the authoritie of Councels aboue the Pope Other Papists more fauorable to their new God amight say that the Pope is by right aboue the Councell but he may if he wil submit himselfe to the Councell But now commeth in the stoute Iesuite and saith with the rest of the schoolemen that the Pope hath such a soueraigntie aboue the Councell that he cannot be subiect to their sentence though hee would Bellar. de concil lib. 2.14 Yet hee is in a mammering with himselfe for saith he in periculo schismatis when there is a schisme and it is not knowne who is the true Pope in such a case the Councell is aboue the Pope Let vs examine some of his best reasons 1 Now commeth in a great blasphemie All the names saith the Iesuite that are giuen to Christ in the Scriptures as head of the Church are ascribed to the Pope as he is called fidelis dispensator Luc. 12. a faithfull steward in the Lords house pastor gregis Iohn 10. the shepheard of the flocke Caput corporis ecclesiae Ephes. 4. the head of his bodie the Church vir seu sponsus Ephes. 5. the husband or spouse of the Church all these titles saith he are due to the Pope Ergo he is aboue the Church and so consequently aboue generall Councels Bellar. de concil lib. 2.17 O Lord what great blasphemie is here to appropriate the titles of Christ to a mortall man But goe to Bellarmine and the rest of that packe fil vp the measure of iniquitie of your forefathers say with Pope Athanasius that the people of the world are the partes of his bodie with Cornelius the Bishop in the Councell of Trent the Pope being the light came into the world and men loued darkenes rather then light with Pope Calixtus in the Councell of Rhemes who when hee saw the Councell would not consent to excommunicate the Emperour impiously cried out that they had forsaken him as Christ was left of his Disciples with Innocentius the third that all things in Heauen and earth and vnder the earth doe bowe the knee vnto him with Otho no Pope but a Cardinall that sitting amongst his Bishops blasphemously applied to himselfe the vision of Ezechiel cap. 1. resembling the Bishops to the sower faced beasts himselfe vnto God that approched to the
it is not like that the Chalcedone Councel and the Emperour would haue yeelded to so vnreasonable a matter as they did Thirdly Eulogius Patriarke of Alexandria doth call the sayd Gregorie vniuersall Pope which name he vtterly refuseth and yet Eulogius had no such meaning to make him Bishop or Patriarke alone but onely to giue him a preeminence aboue the rest This modest and humble Bishop of Rome Gregorie in stead of the title Vniuersall brought it into the Popes stile to be called Seruus seruorum dei seruant to Gods seruants Ergo wee conclude with Gregorie that this title Vniuersall is an Antichristian name and that it hath misliked the ancient Bishops of Rome themselues and how other Patriarkes and Bisshops haue challenged that ambitious name and title as well as the Popes of Rome THE SIXT QVESTION WHETHER THE Pope may erre or not The Papists THey denye not but that both the Pope by himselfe and together with a error 47 whole Councel may bee deceiued in matters of fact that is in historicall poynts and the truth of things that are done because it dependeth of the testimonie and information of men But in matters of faith and doctrine the Pope determining with the Councel is not subiect to error yea the Pope by himselfe alone decreeing any thing concerning faith cannot bee deceiued Bellar. lib. 4. de pontific cap. 1â— No nor yet in precepts of manners prescribed to the Church by the Pope is there any feare or daunger of error cap. 5. Yea it is probable sayth he that the Pope not onely as Pope cannot erre but not as a priuate person is it like he should fall into heresie or hold any obstinate opinion contrarie to the faith cap. 6. 1 Luke 22.31 Simon I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Christ here prayeth for Peter and his successors that they might not at any time erre or be deceiued in matters of faith Bellar. cap. 3. Rhem. annot in Luk. 22. sect 11. We answere First this was a particular prayer for Peter that his fayth should not fayle in that great and dangerous tentation into the which our Sauiour foresaw hee should fall For if it were to be vnderstood of Peters successors they also must first be sifted by Sathan as Peter was and deny Christ and so being conuerted strengthen their brethren if they will vnderstand one parte of Peters successors I pray you why not all Secondly Our Sauiour prayeth likewise for all his Apostles that they might be sanctified in the truth yea for al that should beleeue by their preaching yet is not euery Christian priuiledged from all error of fayth Thirdly after this Peter himselfe erred and was reprehended of Saint Paul Fulk annot in Luk. 22. sect 11. 2. The high Priests that sate in Moses chayre were priuiledged not to erre Ergo much more now are the chiefe pastors of the Church free from error Bellarm cap. 3. Rhemist Luk. 22. sect 11. We answer the high Priests had no such priuiledge for some of them fell into strange errors Vriah the high Priest set vp an idolatrous altar at the Kinges commaundement 2. King 16. Eliashib was ioyned in Affinitie with Tobiah the Ammonite contrary to the law of God Fulk ibid. The Protestantes THat the Popes and Bishops of Rome haue not onely erred in manners but euen in fayth and not onely priuately and personally as men but pulikely and iudicially as Popes that they haue by their publike and open preaching defence allowance and consent approued and established erronious and some hereticall opinions thus we trust to make it playne and euident to all men 1. Peter erred Ergo the Pope may though he were Peters successor First Peter erred in denying of Christ the Iesuite answereth First he began not yet to be the chiefe Bishop which he entred not into till after the resurrection when Christ sayd vnto him Feede my sheepe Iohn 21. therefore all this while he might erre A goodly answere I pray you tell me was not the Church before Christs passion and after built vpon the same rocke I trow they cannot denie it but Peter was not the rock before therefore not after If he were therefore called a rock because of his confession of Christ why should he not then rather straight after his confession take possession of his office then immediately after his deniall of Christ Surely this is but a silly shift Secondly sayth the Iesuite Peter fayled in charitie when he denied Christ not in fayth cap. 3. and if he fayled in fayth he lost the confession of fayth and not fayth it selfe We answere First and can a true fayth then bee separated from loue by your doctrine The Apostles knew no such fayth Saint Iames sayth it is a dead fayth that is without the works of loue and the fayth of diuels that is no faith Iames 2.17.19 If then Peters loue failed his fayth also fayled Secondly we doe not say that Peters fayth was lost and vtterly extinguished for Christ prayed for him but whether it were an error in fayth which Peter fell into for it is not all one to erre in fayth or cleane to lose fayth Thirdly hee lost the confession of fayth he denied Christ in word Ergo he denied the fayth howsoeuer he thought in heart for these two are the principall fruites of fayth to Beleeue with the heart and Confesse with the mouth Rom. 10. and where either of these is wanting there can not be a right fayth for he that putteth away a good conscience maketh shipwrack also of faith 1. Tim. 1.19 But the Iesuite I see hath a queazie stomack let him cough vp lustily and say with one of his fellowes Petrus non fidem Christi sed Christum salua fide negauit Peter denied not the fayth of Christ but his fayth remayning sound and whole hee onely denied Christ. Loe here is newe popish diuinitie that a man may denie Christ and yet not denie the faith Secondly Peter erred in constraining the Gentiles to doe as the Iewes Bellarmine saith it was an error in example conuersation not in fayth or doctrine cap. 7. We answere First in this example of Peter there was also included an error in fayth for how should the Gentiles better know Peters iudgement then by his example by the which they fell into an error of fayth and were constrayned to conforme themselues like to the Iewes thinking that the Iewish ceremonies were necessary to bee retayned Secondly Saint Paul himselfe sayth they went not the right way to the truth of the Gospell Ergo they erred from the trueth of the Gospell and so in fayth Thirdly the diuines of Paris doe attribute to Peter an error in fayth Fulk annot 4. Galat. sect 9. 2. We can produce many examples of the Popes which haue erred iudicially namely openly haue maintayned errors To let passe Marcellinus who sacrificed to Idols as a slippe of his person and he afterward repented him of his fall
in heauen and not vpon the earth 3. What a strange saying is this that Christ giueth his flesh to be eatē in the Sacrament yet hideth it vnder the formes of bread and wine lest men should abhorre to eate it for is it to be thought that Christ would command any vnseemely thing or contrary to humanitie How could the Apostles command the Gentiles to abstaine frō strangled blood Act. 15. whē as by your doctrine they did eate dayly in their assemblies the raw flesh and blood of Christ And how is it that Christ now forgetteth his owne rule He that doth the truth sayth he commeth to the light that his deedes may be made manifest Iohn 3.21 But Christ now flieth the light shrowdeth himselfe vnder the shape of bread and wine and wil not shew his flesh These therefore are but sillie causes which you haue rendered why Christ would haue the substance of bread onely changed and not the accidents The Protestants AS the name of transubstantiation is straunge and newly deuised so is the meaning thereof most vnreasonable that in the Sacrament the substance of bread should be conuerted into the bodie of Christ the formes onely remaining An opinion contrary to scripture reason and common sense Argum. 1. As Christ said Math. 26. pointing to the bread This is my body so he sayth Iohn 6.35 I am the bread but in this place he was not changed into bread why then in the other place should the bread be turned into his body for the speech is all one Argum. 2. The bread in the Eucharist after the consecration is subiect to diuers changes and alterations and so likewise the wine for they may be boyled and made hot they may be infected with poyson for it is certaine that Victor the 3. Pope and Henry the 7. Emperour were poysoned with the Sacrament the wine may waxe sower and turne to vineger the bread may putrifie and breed wormes Ergo the substance of bread and wine remaine still for the accidents cannot be subiect to such alterations and to say that Christs bodie may be thus handled it were great impietie Argum. Pet. Martyris Bellarmine answereth Materia substituitur à Deo in ipso instanti in quo desinunt esse illae species God supplieth some other matter in the very instant when the formes begin to be changed Cap. 24. argum 6. Ans. Is not here good geare thinke you that if a man should come to poyson the Sacrament that is the bread and wine which are alreadie consecrate and made the bodie of Christ God should supplie by a miracle some other matter for him to worke vpon and so God himselfe should be accessarie vnto that wicked act Or if a sillie mouse should be so bold as gnaw vpon a consecrate Host that then likewise some other matter and substance should for that instant be appoynted and so God shall make miracles for mice And why I pray you may not the substance of bread still remaine as well as another substance to be put in the stead thereof Arg. 3. When Christ spake these words Hoc est corpus meum the bread was transubstantiate before or after or while the words were spoken Before they will not say for the elements were not then consecrate nor after for thē Christs words This is my bodie had not been true in that instant when they were spoken Neither was the transubstantiation wrought in the while of speaking for then should it not haue been done all at once but successiuely and one part after another as the words were spoken one after another But this is also contrarie to the opinion of the Papists that would haue it done all together Argum. 4. It is against the nature and propertie of accidents and externall formes to be without a subiect or substance wherein they should rest such are the whitenes and roundnes of the bread the rednes and sweetnes of wine if bread be gone what is become of the roundnes and whitenes and so of the wine If a man aske what round or white thing is this or what red and sweete thing is this shewing the cup what shall be answered we cannot say it is bread or wine for there is none left And I am sure they will not say that the bodie of Christ is either round or white or such like and yet somewhat there must needes be that must take denomination of these accidents Argum. 5. You say the very flesh of Christ that did hang vpon the Crosse is in the Sacrament but that cannot be for that flesh Christ tooke of the Virgine Mary this sacramentall flesh is made of bread Ergo it is not the same flesh which was crucified vpon the Crosse. Bellarm. The bodie of Christ is made of bread but not as any matter or materiall cause thereof but as the wine was made of water by our Sauiour Christ. Ans. And I pray you how was the wine made of the water was not the water the very matter which was turned into wine for one of these three changes and mutations it must needes haue first either the water was annihilate and turned to nothing and so the wine was created of nothing which I am sure you will not graunt secondly or els there was a mixture of wine and water the one being mingled with the other which is likewise false for it was very good and perfect wine neither I thinke will you easily admit that the bodie of Christ and the bread are mingled together in the Sacrament Thirdly there remaineth but the third kind of change that is the conuersion of one substance into another as the water was changed into wine and so is the substance of bread conuerted into the substance of Christs bodie if you will haue any chaunge at all and thus Christ hath gotten by your helpe a breaden bodie another from that which he tooke of the flesh of the Virgine Lastly the diuersitie of opinions which this grosse conceit of the carnall presence of Christ hath hatched doe easily shew and demonstrate vnto vs what we are to thinke of this popish doctrine Some doe hold that the elements doe still remaine in their owne nature in the Sacrament and that together with them the bodie of Christ is carnally present Others doe teach that there remaineth no more bread and wine but onely the verie naturall bodie of Christ of each opinion there are three sorts First of them that hold the elements not to be chaunged 1. Some are of opinion that the bodie of Christ and the elements are locally ioyned together either for that instant onely or els because of the vbiquitie and omnipresence of Christs humanitie of which opinion are the Lutherans 2. Some there were that thought onely so much of the bread to be changed into the bodie of Christ as was receiued of the faithfull and that part which the wicked receiued to be bread still 3. Others taught that the bread was assumed in the Sacrament to the
India America the vnknowen parts of the world Bellarmin cap. 7. nota 4. We aunswere First the truth is not alwayes to be measured by the iudgement or opinion of the multitude folow not a multitude saith the Scripture to do euill the greatest part is not the best Christ calleth his flocke pusillum gregem a litle flocke feare not litle flocke saith he Secondly you haue nothing to do with the Church which was propagated in the Apostles time nor for the space of fiue or six hundred yeares after Christ it was not your Church for the most of your heresies are more lately sprong vp then so And you need not bragge of your vniuersalitie now for the Turke I trow hath a larger dominion then the Pope and Mahometisme is as largely spread as Papistrie and further to And for Europe I hope you neede not make your boast the Pope had neuer lesse iurisdiction then he hath now and I trust euery day shall haue lesse But many you say in the new found countryes haue bene cōuerted to your religiō In deed if you had had grace such an opportunitie being offered as the Spaniards had you might haue won that simple people to Christ. But you thirsted more for their gold then for their soules health it is notoriously knowen to the world what extreme crueltie hath bene wrought vpon that innocent people Was that a Catholike part of the Spaniardes to keepe dogges of purpose to werry and destroy the inhabitants to vse them as horse and beastes to plough to carry to digge Thus by your crueltie there were out of one small Iland called Hispaniola which was well peopled and inhabited destroyed and rooted out in short time two milions of men and women the storie of Benzo an Italian is abroad to be seene of this matter you haue none or few of your Popish Catholikes in those countryes but of your owne brood that haue bene sent thither but enough of this 3 We nothing doubt but that our faith the truth of the Gospell hath bene long since knowen and published to the whole world Those two cōditions which the Iesuite putteth in to make the Church vniuersall do helpe vs very well the first is that it is not necessarie that all coūtryes wholly should professe the Christiā faith but it suffiseth if there be some of the church in euery country the second it is not requisite that this vniuersalitie of the Church should be all at one time but if it be done successiue that is in diuerse ages one country to be ioyned to the Church after another it is enough Now keeping these two conditions we shall easily proue our Church to be vniuersall for there are no countryes in Europe and few in the whole world wherein there are not some of our faith namely that abhorre worshipping of Images do onely hope to be saued by faith in Christ without merite and beleeue in the rest as we do And againe taking one age after another we shall easily make it good that our faith at times hath spread it selfe ouer the whole world The third Note of Succession THey make great boast of the long and perpetuall successiō of their Popes error 20 from the Apostles for the space of these 1500. yeares and more condemning all Churches which can not shew the like order of succession Bellarmin cap. 8. Rhemist annot in Ephe. 4. ver 13. We aunswer First they can not shew such an entier and perpetuall successiō without any interruptiō or discontinuance for so many yeares for sometime there were two sometime three Popes together and this schisme continued 29. yeares till the Councell of Constance where three Popes were deposed at once Benedict 13. the Spanish Pope Gregorie 12. the French Pope and Iohn 23. the Italian Pope 2 If succession be so sure a note of the Church it is found also in other Churches besides as in Cōstātinople where hath bene a perpetuall succession as Nicephorus saith from S. Andrew the Apostle in Antioch from S. Peter and in other Churches in Grecia The Iesuite here is driuen to his shiftes and hath nothing to say but this that the argument foloweth negatiuely that where there is no succession there is no Church not affirmatiuely that where any succession can be shewed there straightwayes it should folow there is a true Church so by the Iesuites owne confession he hath made but a bad argument for the Church of Rome we haue a perpetuall succession of Popes from the Apostles time Ergo we are the Church It foloweth not saith the Iesuite we graunt it Why then a litle before did he call it insolubile argumentum an insosoluble and vnanswerable argument 3 Thirdly we say that a succession of persons in the same place without succession of doctrine which they can not shew is nothing worth A succession of the Apostolike faith and doctrine proueth a continuance of pastors and teachers and not contrariwise We haue the Apostolike faith and therefore we doubt not but that there haue bene continually in the Church faithfull teachers by whom that doctrine hath bene preserued and kept though they were not famous nor carried a glorious shew in the world For that outward succession is not necessarie neither so much to be stood vpon Augustine whē he had alledged succession against heretikes concludeth thus Quanquam non tantū nos de istis documentis praesumamus quā de Scripturis sanctis although saith he we presume not so much vpon these documēts as of holy Scripture The fourth Note of Vnitie error 21 OVr aduersaries do stand much vpon vnitie which they thinke is the glorie of their Church they doe embrace vnitie amongest them selues and all ioyne in obedience to their head Their vnitie also is seene say they in the wonderfull consent of all their writers in matters of Religion and the notable agreement and concord in the decrees of their Popes and Councels But as for vs and our Church they say it is full of rents schismes and diuisions Bellarm. First of the vnitie of their church and then of the vnitie of ours Their vnitie they say is partly seene in their obedience and louing societie and felowship partly in their Religion and doctrine First for their concord and loue one toward another we will take some paynes a litle to decypher it About the yeare of the Lord 900. there was pretie sport amongest the Popes nine of them one after another Stephen the sixth abrogated all his predecessor Formosus decrees and not content with that he tooke vp his body which was buried and cut two fingers of his right hād off and commaunded his body to be buried againe After him succeeded Pope Rhomanus Theodorus the second Iohn the tenth who ratified and confirmed the doings of Formosus After them folowed Pope Sergius who disanulling all their actes tooke vp againe the body of Formosus cut of his head and commaunded his body to be throwen into Tiber the great riuer in Rome