r. praeponeÌ„da 22. in a. r. in the. 24. vvhen r. vvheÌ„ the. 71.20 vvhere rea vvere and the 22. to reade in 78.26 that you â—avv a bastard church r. that you being a bastard church haue 87.34 Commentualls rea Conuentualles 91.32 that he rea then he 92.30 cultiued r. coÌ„tinued 97.1 your reade youres 99.13 there rea therefore 14. vinci reade vincè In the aunswere of a true Christian c. pag. 14. li. 6 for that r. theÌ„ 22.21 conseites r. conserues 23.19 they made a cushioÌ„ reade they made mariage a chushion 25.37 fast reade facte 26.37 canche rea couche 30.35 greatest rea great 31.1 reade instrumentes for the defence 46.33 for reade farre 47.30 sinnes reade sinner â—9 19 praedicate rea praeiudicate 64.37 fauteles r. fruictles 87.6 heauie reade hearie 89.2 as reade or 92.6 bitter reade better 95.31 paltinge r. peltinge 102.15 r. liklihodes nuÌ„bred 121.29 conuenientes reade conuenienter 127.13 r. to death a sinne not c. li. 28.10 rea to 139.34 vnrecoÌ„cyled reade that are reconciled 143.2 you reade her 151.27 hath rea hauing 156.5 can not reade can stande c. 205.29 to his brother rea to his brethren 210.14 faste reade facte â—24 31 reade forsakers 232.38 sorovving r. saying 238.10 clame r. exclame 248.1 an reade any 249.23 praie reade praied 255.19 Tecta reade Tecla 259.37 toti reade hi. 262.7 after vvritinges make a ful poinct l. 10. Troianus reade Traianus 14. BarlauÌ„ r. Barlaam 16. Ephraim r. Ephreem 265.27 and 29. Rhenamus reade Rhenanus 268.36 knavv rea knaue 277.17 shoulde seme reade as it shoulde seme 283.2 Capth r. Chapter 284.30 after decree reade concerning that vvhich vvas not c. 286.31 put out he 299.19 had reade hath 295.11 xemia rea xenia 307.8 mistrusted reade misconstrued 316.2 you vvil r. you vvil not 23. then rea thou 334.19 criall reade triall 335.31 put out in 347.1 same reade sunne right reade light 350.6 r. deceiueth c. 361.16 vnto reade in 361.29 profatam rea profoctam 364.31 vve before reade before vve 378.17 vindicemus reade iudicemus and line 37. either reade other 373.11 stringe r. springe 374.10 Consilio Meleuitano r. CoÌ„cilio Mileuitano 382.19 CommoÌ„ r. Cannon 386.31 degree r. pedigree 391.25 thou reade there 396.1 God reade man. 397.24 hidden r. sudden 399.15 as for vvitnesse reade for vvitnesses 406.6 the matter reade thy matter 409.32 make a full poincte after in deed and line 22. put out the full poincte after describeth 435.16 sparte r. sponte and line 29. superstition reade supposition 441.34 parleis rea paruis 443.2 vvhen rea vvhere 31. li. aliquid r. aliquod 447.2 strife reade stripe 455.33 named r. varied li. 34. shall rea should AN ANSVVER OF A TRVE CHRISTIAN TO A COVNTERFAIT CATHOLIKE The proposition of the Aduersarie CHrist did commit at his departure hence the testimony of that truth for which he died and the conuersion of the Nations to the beleefe in him to the true church of God which then stoode principally and almost onely in the persons of the Apostles and a fewe more that by their preachings and those afterward of their calling the Christian religion might be planted in all Nations beginning at Ierusalem and so proceeding to the coastes and corners of the earth AN ANSVVERE TO THE PROPOSITION I Graunt that our Sauiour Christ at his departure hence commaunded his Apostles as principal members of his Church though not the greatest part of it to preach the doctrine which he confirmed by his death vnto all nations beginning at Ierusalem and so forth according to his saying Goe therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost Teaching them to obserue all thinges what so euer I haue commaunded you Matth. 28. Whereuppon I chalenge the Papist that if he be able to proue that the doctrine of poperie is all that trueth and nothing but that trueth for which Christ dyed and which he commaunded the Apostles to teach I will acknowledge the popish church to be the Church of Christ. The first article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 First I aske of the protestant what Church that was which conuerted all these cuntries that be now Christian to the faith of Christ IF you meane by Christians true Christians and by the faith of Christ the true faith of Christ I answere only the true Church of Christ hath had the worde of God and sacraments as meanes which God vseth to subdue al nations vnto the obedience of the faith as was the primitiue Church of the Apostles which hath continued vnto this daye by succession not of personnes and places but of faith and truth wherefore if the Papist can proue that we holde not the same faith and trueth vnto which the Apostles conuerted the nations we refuse to be called the Church or Congregation of Christ. But if by Christians and Christian faith you meane all them that professe the name of Christ in the whole worlde I aunswere that the true Church of Christ did not conuert them all for in Aethiopia there are yet people conuerted by the false apostles which taught circumcision and obseruation of the lawe in which heresie they continue vnto this day and it is manifest by all histories that the nations of the Alanes Gothes and Vandales were first conuerted by the Arrians 2 And let him shew vnto me that euer his Church conuerted any people or lande in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentility or Iudaisme to the true Religion of Christ or that this his fayth was taught to any Nation in steede of true Christianity WE are members of that Church which conuerted all landes in the earth that are conuerted from Idolatry Gentility Iudaisme or heresie to the true Religion of Christ and we affirme that the Apostles taught none other faith in steede of true Christiantie but that which we hold as we are readie to proue by the worde of God And at this daye the most parte of Europe is conuerted from Idolatrie heresie and Antichristianitie vnto the same true faith that we mainteine as in England Scotland Ireland France Germany Denmarke Suetia Bohemia Polonia by publike authoritie in Spaigne and Italie a great numbre vnder persecution and tyrannie Also of the Iewes no small numbre are conuerted to our religion since the rising vp of the Gospell in our dayes 3 Or any Church but the common Catholike Church to haue don that and I recant BEcause you meane by the common Catholike not the true Catholike but the popish church First I denie that euer the popish church conuerted any people to the true faith Secondly I denie that the popish church hath conuerted all nations to the profession of Christ For it is shewed before that the false Apostles and Arians conuerted some nations to the profession of Christes name but yet to false religion And it is also manifest by histories that the Grecians
Catholike Church then can you no more condemne vs then Christ and his Apostles that were not onely not called the true Church but also were called heretikes deceiuers by the people of the Iewes which were as rightly called God his people as they that giue you the name of Catholike Church are called the Christian world It is well you haue nothing better to proue your Church then the honorable name of Catholike nor any thing more to condēne our Church then that we are not called Catholike and yet we haue as many nations and more then you haue that by publike authoritie call vs Catholikes and you heretikes although you most shamefully sclaunder vs that we doe refuse the name being offered vnto vs Seeing you boast so much of the name Catholike you shall heare what some of the old writers iudged thereof Chrysostome in an homelie that he writeth of Adam and Eue in the later ende hath these words after he hath tolde them that he hath no neede to repeate such depe questions as those men haue handled which haue fought against heretikes Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secūdum praedictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt vt prorsus opinemur Catholicum quod apparuerit praefixis sententijs esse contrarium that is we beleue that what so euer the Apostles haue taught vs according to the foresayd rules is sufficient in so much that in no wise we thinke that to be Catholike which shall appeare to be contrary to the sentences before determined By this you may see that Chrysostome thought it not sufficient to haue the name of Catholike for he iudged nothing to be Catholike in deede that was contrary to the rule groūded in the writings of the Apostles Wherfore how so euer you boast of the honorable name of Catholike except you can proue that your opinions agree with the Scripture they are not Catholike in deede by Chrysostomes iudgement S. Augustine also in his booke de Genese ad literam imperfecto cap. 1. speaking of the Catholike faith sayth This is an article thereof that we should beleue Constitutam ab eo matrem Ecclesiam quae Catholica dicitur ex eo quia vniuersaliter perfecta est in nullo claudicat per totum orbem diffusa est That he hath appoynted a mother Church which is called Catholike of this because it is vniuersally perfect halteth in nothing and is dispersed ouer all the worlde S. Augustine here is not content that the Church be onely called Catholike but sheweth when it is that which it is called and therefore the popish Church not being vniuersally perfect as most Papists will confesse that many thinges in their church haue neede of reformation halting in many thinges from the truth of God his worde neither yet being dispersed ouer all the world but conteyned in a corner of Europa is not by S. Augustines rule the Catholike Church Furthermore S. Augustine cōtra Epistolam Fundamēti cap. 4. against the Manichees plainely declareth how farre forth not onely the name of Catholike but also how farre vniuersally consent succession antiquitie are to be allowed Vt ergo hanc omittam sapientiam c. Therefore to omitte this wisedom which you do beleue to be in the Catholike Church there be many other things which may hold me most righteously in her bosome The cōsent of people and nations holdeth me the authoritie begun with miracles nourished with hope encreased with charitie confirmed by antiquitie doth hold me The succession of Priestes from the very seate of Peter the Apostle vnto whom our Lord after his resurrection committed his sheepe to be fedde euen vnto this present bishopricke doth hold me Last of all that very name of Catholike doth hold me which name not without a cause this Church alone hath so obteyned among so many heresies that wheras all heretiks would be called Catholikes yet when a stranger shall aske where men meete at the Catholike Church none of the heretikes dare shew him either their principall temple or house All this you will say maketh exceeding much for vs yea but heare that which followeth Apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat sola personat veritatis pollicitatio quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur vt in dubium venire non possit proponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in Catholica teneor that is But among you where there is none of these thinges that may prouoke or holde me there soundeth the onely promise of truth which if it be shewed so manifest that it can not come in doubt is to be preferred before all those thinges by which I am holden in a Catholike Church By this you may plainly see that though consent antiquitie succession and the name of Catholike be good confirmation when they are ioyned with the truth yet when a truth is seuered from them it is more to be regarded then they all it is truth that maketh Catholike to be estemed and not Catholike that giueth authoritie to truth Wherefore seeing it were better to proue your Church to be Catholike then to boast that it is so called to disproue our Church so to be then to say it is not so called The best way for you is to recant The 21. article conteyneth but one demande 1 Moreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in that time in which they holde the true church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the Catholike church was bounde to goe from that church which they sawe and taught them both the article and all other thinges touching their faith and by which they were Christened and receyued all other sacraments and commodities of saluation whether they were bounde I say to beleue this vnknowen and close Congregation which they coulde neuer come vnto nor by which they euer receiued or coulde receiue any benefit and so forsake that church by whom and in whom they receiued both their faith and sacraments Shew me therefore that the Christian men of these dayes were charged to beleeue any other church than that which taught them the article of the church and baptized them and I recant THis demande is like a drunken mans dreame hauing neither heade nor foote whether they shoulde beleue the church was lost whether they shoulde beleue the church that was vnknowen to them c. But if your demande haue any sense in it This is my aunswere The church was neuer lost but hidden from the eyes of the worlde Therefore if the people that where taught that article To beleue the Catholike church and were baptized to your church vnderstood that this church was not the Catholike church which was so commonly called but that God had a secret Congregation which was in deed the true Catholike church they were bound to forsake your church and to beleue the secret Congregation for if a man had ben baptized
full of posing M. Protestant as though you were Iohannes ad oppositum I wil pose you M. Allen an other while or any M. Papiste of you all that hath a forheade to mainteine this trumperie for Clemenâ— the auncient Bishoppes writing Alas Syr what if this be proued counterfect that you saye is so olde and you with out peraduenture lye that of late haue founde it so auncient what grounde haue your schollers then Tertullian hath discharged you of authority of the scripture already how will you proue it then to be a tradition of the Apostles your aunswere wil be still Clenens sayth it But alacke Sir whether is it more licke that Eusebius and Hieronym that lyued neerer to the time of S. Clement by twelue hundreth yeares then you shoulde know or here tell of his epistles and other writings better then you But Eusebius and Hieronym neuer hearde of such writinges as were neuer seen in the Church 13. or 14. hundreth yeares after Clemens his death Where shoulde you haue them then but of some counterfecting knawe that coulde not otherwise maintaine his heresie to be old but by falsyfying and counterfecting a newe that which neuer was in the olde writers heades But to shew that your shamelesse Clement daunceth bare and breechelesse with out all honesty I will yet pose you further and bidde you call your wittes together to aunswere me Whether had you rather graunt that so holy a Pope as Clemens was did erre or â—hat he was a false knaw that woulde father an error vppon so holy a mans name and credit your Syr Clemens decreeth that the fortyeth day must be obserued for the departed according to the olde forme because the people did so obserue the bewayling of Moses But if the scripture affirme that the people bewayled Moses but 30. dayes Deut. 34. Then is your Clement a falsyfier of Gods worde and his foolish decree builded vppon his false grounde How saye you now M. Allen is this Apostolike or apostotaticall is this plaine dealing or Popish counterfecting was Clemens in the Apostles age so ignorant of the scripture or was he an ignorant hypocrite that fayned this vnder the name of Clemens Trueth seaketh not to be mainteined which lyes fayth looketh not to be defended by falsehoode The Church of Christ craueth no counterfected authoritie to establish her doctrine Therefore it is neither trueth nor fayth nor the doctrine of the Church of Christ that you mainteine defend and establish by lying falsyfying and counterfecting but error infidelity and heresie he therefore that will forsake the certainetie of Gods worde to builde vpon the traditions of men for leuing the only pathe of trueth hath a iust rewarde to fall into the pitte of error 5 VVell I will close vp this parte of our talke for Tobies almes borde in the obittes of Christian men with S. Augustines graue iudgement who as he is plaine for the benefite of oblations in the memorialls of mens departures in all placies so here in a maner he ordereth the action thereof for abusies that might thereon arise in his epistle to Aurelius The offeringes sayth he obserued for the soules departed whereof there is no question but profet ariseth to them let them not be ouer sumptuous vpon the mindes of the deceased nor soulde away but geuen with out grudge or disdaine to such as be present and woulde be partaker thereof but if mony be offered it may be distributed out of hande to the poore and then shall not those dayes of their freindes memorialles be to their great griefe forsaken or destitute of companie And the ordre with honeste comelinesse shall be kept continually in the Church So S. Clement him selfe teacheth all them that be called to such dayes of prayers for the departed and to be partakers of those oblations or charitable relieues which were by some honest sober refreshing euen in the Church in those dayes obserued whether they be of the laity or of the priestes he geueth them this lesson Qui ad memorias eorum vocamini cum modestia cum dei timore comedite veluti valentes legatione fungi pro mortuis cum sitis presbyteri diaconi Christi sobrij esse debetis priuatim cum alijs vt possitis intemperantes coercere All you that are called to the funeralles of the departed refresh your selues in measure and feare of God that you may be worthy to be as it were in commission of intreatie for the deade and being priestes or deacons of Christ you are bounde to be sobre euen at home but abrode for others example and discipline 5 You had bene as good to haue left out the comparing of Augustines oblations with Tobies almes borde for that custome which most resembled your fantasie of Tobies almes borde Augustine condemneth where he alloweth oblations for them that sleepe to profit some what Sed quoniaÌ„ istae in caemiterijs ebrietates luxuriosa conuiuia non solùm honores martyrum in carnali imperita plebe credi solent sed etiam solatia mortuorum mihi videtur facilius illic dissuadeâ—i posse istam foeditatem ac turpitudinem si de scripturis prohibeatur oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium quas verè aliquid adiuuare credendum est super ipsas memorias non sunt sumptuosae c. But because this dronkennesses and riotous festes vsed in the Church yeardes of the carnall and vnskillfull people are wonte to be beleued not onely to be the honour of the martyrs but also the comforte of the deade my thinke it were more easy that this filthynesse and beastlynesse may be there diswaded if both it be forbidden out of the scriptures and that the oblations for the spirites of the deade which truely we must beleue doth helpe somewhat vpon the memories them selues be not sumptuous c. But if Augustine had knowen the horrible abuses which grew afterwarde by permission of these oblations he woulde as well haue prohibited them out of the scripture as that hethenish banquettinge in the Church yeardes in honor of the martyrs as for comforte of deade mens soules As for Clement that teacheth the preistes and deacones to be sober and moderate in eating where they were bidden to buriall feastes euen here also he sheweth him selfe in his owne colours As though in the dayes of Clemens when the Church was in great persecution they had nothing els to doe but to keepe sumptuous feastes at their burialls where at the priestes and deacons were in daunger of glouttony dronkennesse as they were in the Popish church when Popery was in the pride seldome temperate or sober and lest of all at burialls and monthes mindes c. That the benefite of prayer and almes appertaineth not to such as dye in mortall sinne though in the doubtefull case of mans beeing the Church vseth to praye for all departed in Christes fayth CAP. VII 1 THus farre we now are broght I trust with proofe and euidence enough with
the third of his Ecclesiasticall storie reproueth This is all that S. Hieronyme coulde finde concerning his writings Who then hath raysed from hell these other Decretall epistles and constitutions that M. Allen and his companions woulde flappe vs in the mouth with all being nothing else but impudent lyes and foule forgeryes 3 Againe Dionysius Ariopagita of whome mention is made in the Actes so auncient be the recordes of our faith hath not onely left in writinge what he thought in this matter which had bene enough but also what the Church Apostolike in that spring of religion and pure deuotion taught and ordeyned to be vsed and that by the Apostles prescription whome he there tormeth the heauenly gides and capitaines of trueth For in the last chapter of his booke titled of the Ecclesiasticall soueraintie he telleth in ordre howe first the body is placed before the holy altar howe the solemne mysteries with heauenly psalmes and sonets be songe and saide ouer the corps how the holy Bishop geueth thankes to God maketh comfortable exhortation to the assembly to continue in assured hope of the resurrection how he anointeth the body with holy oyle and last of all maketh prayers for him and so committeth him to god The which whole ordre of the sacrifice ceremonies and mysticall prayers exercised as well in burialls as at other times in the reuerent mysteries this author woulde not fully set out in writinge for their sakes that coulde not for the weaknesse of faith atteine to the worthy holynesse of so high matters as he him selfe professeth in these wordes Praecationes quae in misterijs adhibentur nephas est scripto interpretari misticam eorum intelligentiam aut vim quae in eis deo authore efficacitatem habent ex abdito in publicum efferre sed quemadmodum a maioribus nostris traditum accepimus c The prayers which be vsed in the misteries maye not in any wyes be set out to the world in writinge neither may the singular efficacie and grace of them be made common to all men but euen as we haue receiued by the handes of our elders And as longe as this ordre was religiously kept in Gods church the solemne secrets of the blessed sacraments were not so contemptible as our news open communion hath of late made them where there is nothing so holy but it may abide the sight and handeling of who so euer is the worst The holy and heuenly misteries of Christ his spouse were not then prophaned by the presumptuous babling of euery idle heade Then were not the soueraigne weighty matters handeled in alehouses but vsed at the holy altars Then the idle contentious vngodly and vnprofitable quirkes and questions had no other solution but sharpe discipline and worthy correction then were not the Gides of Gods people controwled by euery restlesse fellowe that coulde cracke of Gods worde but it was enough for a faithfull mans contentation to say with Basil the greate Dominus ita docuit apostoli predicauerunt patres obseruauerunt confirmauerunt martyres sufficiat dicere ita doctus sum Our Lorde taught so the Apostles so preached our fathers obserued the same the holy martyrs haue sealed it It is sufficient for me to say so was I taught O Lord that this simple sincere fidelitie might once take place againe in our dayes for the comforte of the poore faithfull flocke that are now so burdened with questions of infidelitie that the sely simples soules can not tell howe to turne them selues nor finde meanes to kepe their faith inuiolated in such a multitude of misbeleuers VVhich I surely hope the earnest and pityfull prayers of so many good men that do bewaile this miserie shall at length after due punishment of our â—innes obteine at Gods gratious handes But what sâ—ifte doe the aduersaries here make with this euident testimonie of this so auncient a writer mary sir they indeuour with all their might to robbe this excellent auncieÌ„t diuine writer of all his workes whiche haue borne the title of his name euer sith they were writen which chalenge their owne author by that graue stile that no other man as the skillfull in that language doe testifie coulde euer lightly atteine vnto which so sauore of the antiquity and the Apostolike spirite that thou woulde deeme them to be indited by some of the continuall hearers of Christ Iesus But it were vaine to stande in contention for this matter for we shoulde neuer haue ende if we should be put to proue that euery man made the bookes which be extant in his name it were to much miscredit of antiquitie and vncertainty of all thinges Although this mans workes haue bene both named and certeine sentences alleaged out of them by most auncient doctors and councells VVith whome the aduersaries if they list be busie shall wrestle for I will seeke out as my purpose was whether in other times and vsages of celebration this kinde memoriall of the deade hath not bene kept 3 If Dionysius the Aeropagite had written any thing or any Dionysius had written any bookes entituled de ecclesiastica Hierarchia before S. Ieronyms time or in his time he would not haue left him out in his Cataloge of Ecclesiasticall writers which he continueth from the passion of Christ vnto the 14. yeare of Theodosius the Emperour or if any such writer or writing had bene knowne in the Church two hundreth yeares after Gennadius which addeth if any were omitted by Ieronym and continueth his cataloge vnto the raigne of Zeno or Anastasius in which time he liued he would not haue passed him in so deepe silence yea the man him selfe euen in the wordes that M. Allen rehearseth plainly declareth that he was not that Areopagite coÌ„uerted by S. Paule for then he would not haue sayd Quemadmodum a maioribus nostris traditum accepimus as we haue receiued it of our auncestors But as we haue receiued of the Apostles them selues of whom Dionysius him selfe was turned to the faith As for Suidas is to late a witnesse to know that Ieronym and Gennadius and before them Eusebius knew not But M. Allen thinketh he hath made a witty defence for these bookes to be written by Dionysius the Areopagite when he sayth we should neuer haue ende if we shoulde be put to proue that euery man made these bookes that be extant in his name But what if we should receiue all bookes to be authenticall that beare the name of some worthy person shoulde we not thinke you haue many goodly treatises in the name not onely of auncient doctors but euen of the Apostles them selues But Origen and Athanasius both name this Dionysius and allege sentences out of him Shew that M. Allen and you haue wonne the fielde for Dionysius credit except it be out of such Origens and Athanasiusses as this Dionysius is or as Damascene and the second Nycene councell alleage to whom what so euer could be counterfected to serue their
successions did euer chuse out for the warrant of their faith from amongest the reste the Roman Seate And now when there is no apostolike Church left in the whole worlde but it that they will seeke to Churchies whereof there is neither certainty nor succession when by plaine open dealing we may reduce and must needes referre our faith to that which was euer of all other most farre from falshoodde 3 Euery man in the primitiue Church compted the springe of his faith more pure if he coulde deriue it out of the holy Scriptures and shew the continuance thereof in any of the Apostolicke Churches whereof Rome was but one And condemned all heresies of nouelty or later string which coulde not bring the first author of their heresies eyther from any of the Apostles or apostolicke men which cōtinued in the doctrine of the Apostles as Tertullian doth in that booke De praescriptionibus aduersus haereses The like doth Irenaeus And that these men specially named the Church of Rome it was because the Church of Rome at that time as it was founded by the Apostles so it continued in the doctrine of the Apostles And these heretikes for the most parte had bene sometimes of the Church of Rome as Valentinus Marcion Nouatus But none of these fathers as M. Allen woulde haue it appeare was such a sclaue to the Church of Rome that what so euer pleased the Byshoppes of that Sea they were ready to accept For then woulde not Irenaeus so sharpely haue reproued Victor as Eusebius declareth of him Lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian woulde not haue taken vp Cornelius and Stephanus as appeareth by his epistles Hieronym woulde not haue bene so bolde to call Rome the purple whore of Babylon Praefat. ad Paulinū in lib. Didym Nor to compare the bishoppe of Eugubium with the bishop of Rome Euagrio nor to make the Church of England equall with the Church of Rome Nec iam altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia altera totius orbis existimanda est Et Gallia Britania Africa Bersis Oriens Indiae omnes barbarae nationes vnum Christum adorant vnam obseruant regulam veritatis Si authoritas quaeritur orbis maior est vrbe Neither must we thinke that there is one Church of the citye of Rome an other of all the worlde beside Both France and Britayne and Africa and Persia and the Easte and India and all barbarous nations worship one Christ keepe one rule of trueth If authoritie be sought the world is greater then one citye c. Loe Syr here is a Church and christianity and a rule of trueth with out the byshoppe of Rome with out the Church of Rome yea and contrary to the church of Rome For to them that alleged the custome of the church of Rome he sayth Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis cōsuetudinem what bring you me the custome of one citye and Augustine him selfe that knwe so well to fetch an heretike ouer the coles I trowe fetched Zosimus Bonifacius and Coelestinus byshoppes of Rome meetly well ouer the coles when he and his fellowes the byshoppes of Africa tooke them with plaine forgerie and falsification of the canons of the councell of Nice Consilio Milebitano Africano As for that which M. Allen compteth so strange is for lacke of skill and right iudgement For the same cause that moued those auncient fathers to appeale to the iudgment of the church of Rome moueth vs now to condemne the church of Rome of heresie wherefore did they reuerence the church of Rome Aske Tertullian he aunswereth because it had by succession reteined euen vntill his dayes that faith which it did first receiue of the Apostles Therefore it was a true Church therefore it was an apostolicke Church which because it doth not nowe neither hath done of many yeares and hath nothing to boast of but the empty names of many good bishops but thrise as many more of cursed Antichristes therefore it is nowe a false church and a company of heretikes departed from the auncient Romaines true and apostolicke faith 4 Bring my faith once to S. Gregory and the very streame shall driue me to S. Peter and Paule maugre all their beardes In which ordre of Byshops finde me one that set forth by decree any practise of contrary doctrine to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteine I will go seeke with the stray a newe mother Church to founde my faith vpon If all be in this succession salfe and sounde what a folly were it to forsake our owne mother and spring of our belefe to seeke other which haue often erred when they stoode and nowe be almost wholy decaide But yet it is wisedome for false teachers with all force to flie from so greate light as maye arise to the trueth by the recognising of that sounde succession and going the iuste contrary way from the olde doctors faith it is not to be thought straunge that they directly seeke to ouerthrowe that bulwarcke which they euer leaned vnto in the stormes of schisme and heresie The shrewes do knowe full well the might of trueth in that Seate and succession to haue beaten downe all their forefathers the heretikes of all agies They feare their fall whose steppes they follow They vtter much malice torment them selfe in euery sermon in vaine that Church feeleth no sore but in sorow of compassion towardes her forsakers she hath bidden greater stormes then this first by tyraunts then by heretikes last and most by the euill life of her owne Bishoppes In all which she yet standeth and euer riseth to honour as she is most impugned Their owne preaching hath singularly opened the might of God in the defense of that Seate of vnity VVhen they first beganne to touche and taunt the Pope in euery sermon in euery playe in booke and balate men that before liuing in faithfull simplicitie much medled not with his matters nor often hearde of his name beganne straight upon their busy ralinge to conceiue by reasonable discretion that there lay some greate grounde of matter and weight of trueth vpon that point which they coulde not digest in so many yeares bauling and barking at his name they saw the Pope euer in their way neuer out of their mouth and they doubted not but that singular hatred grew vpon some great importance and so admonished luckely by the aduersaries they sought the bottom of that perfecte and deepe hatered and found that it was the olde sore of the Arians and disease of the Donatistes and common to all heretikes they perceiued by S. Cyprian that the first attempte of such men was to driue awaye the pastor that they might with out resistance deuour and destroie the flocke And which was the pricke of all their endeuours to take from vs the acknowledging of the great and singular benefite of our conuersion to the faith that in stopping the heade of that condeth and plentifull well of our faith
obscuro non ad propheticas voces non ad apostolicas literas nec ad euangelicas auctoritates sed ad semetipsos recurrunt Sed ideò erroris magistri existunt quia veritatis discipuli non fuerunt They fall into this folly which when they be hindered by any obscuritie to knowe the truth haue not recourse to the words of the Prophets nor to the writings of the Apostles nor to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues But therefore are they maisters of error because they haue not ben schollers of truth In these words Leo as great as you would haue him maketh the Scriptures not customes or traditioÌ„s the rule of truth But I will come to your demonstration which you call a sure way to try the beginning of any doctrine yet vnder correction of your demonstratiue Logike I may be bold to say it is not the proper way nor the way by which all doctrine may be tryed and so you breake 2. of those principal rules that Aristotle giueth for demonstration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the proper way to try all doctrine is by coÌ„ferring it with the word of God Againe the first author of euery heresie can not be named There was one heresie of them that were called Acephali because there was no head knowne of them It is harde to name the first authour of the Manichees whom the heretikes them selues call an Apostle of Christ. The Chiliastes the Ophâ—tes the Caineanes the Sethoites the Adamianes the Melchezedâ—chianes the Apostolike the Hemerobaptistes and an hundred more heresies shall they be thought to haue their heresie from tradition of the Apostles if the first author of them can not be named yet I weene it will be hard for him to proue out of any authenticall writer that any before Tertullian either named or allowed prayer for the deade who was almost 2. hundreth yeares after the incarnation of Christ. 2 If they answere me that this vsage is crept into the church sith the Apostles time though the first author can not be knowen I will also prouide that there no shift shall serue them Therefore I aske them whether that man which first preached it was resisted by the rest of Gods Church which before his preaching beleued the contrarie or no That is it say this doctrine of praying for the deade when it first came into the church did any of the true pastors free from the same error barke like a good shepheard against the beginner of that which they count so great a corruption of trueth Or all the Church was corrupted with it on one daye say what you thinke likest in this case aunswere with any probability or reason if you can saye plainely was our doctrine euer preaâ—hed against or neuer if it neuer were preached against then it neuer beganne as any noueltie or newe doctrine For it coulde not be that the Church being free from that doctrine shoulde straight without contradiction allowe that which they liked not before Howe can any man arise in the common welth and bring the vtter decay of all the olde ordres which he findeth and erect vp a new deuise of his owne and neuer man speake a word against him but all in one moment allow and like the same and that without all recorde by memory or monument of any chaunge But this thinge is most farre from the Churches and Gods pastors diligeÌ„ce that neuer receiued false doctrine without open contradiction and plaine noting the party that first began it as we shal plucke our gentlemen by the slieue a none All those that haue any skill in the antiquitie will beare me recorde that the pastors did neuer holde their peace when any wolfe did but once open his mouth against the sheepe They can tell that she did neuer beare the preaching or practise of any false and erroneous doctrine for one day together then it must needes consequently followe that the doctrine of purgatory and oblation for the departed with still consent of all nations receiued in the Catholike Church had no beginning after the first institution of our faith and worship of God but hath ioyned from the first grounde of our Christian institution in Christes faith with that sacrifice and due honour of God which the Apostles by the suggestion of the holy Ghost planted in all nations with the same faith Thus I make my argument euery falsehood was preached against and withstanded when it is first entered but this doctrine of purgatory and praying for the deade being alwayes vsed was neuer controwled nor gainsaide in Gods Church therfore it is no falsehood nor euer had any later institution then the Apostles owne prescription 2 Supposing that this errour crept into the Church though the first author thereof can not be knowne he demaundeth whether any man preached against it when it began first to be receiued I aunswere if the Pastors of the Church had done their duty to the vttermost it could not so easily haue preuayled And yet it is not to be thought but that some of the true Pastors in that tyme opposed them selues against it although the history of the Church in that time whâ—n it began to be spreade is to briefe vnperfect that we should be able to name who they were that preached against it Of so many heresies as Epiphanius nameth in his time it were hard to require and vnpossible to shew who preached against euery one of them at their first entrance yet they be damnable heresies In S. Augustines dayes of whose time the history of the Church is largely set forth vnto vs who preached or writte against that error which he and Innocentius Bishop of Rome al the church as he confessed did hold that infants must receiue the holy communion or else they should be damned Who preached against this error except perhaps the Pelagians that were horrible heretikes Was all the Church corrupted with it in one day If euery heresie had bene beaten down as fast as it sprang Antichrist should neuer haue set vp his throne in the temple of god If God had not sent into the world the efficacy of error that they which refused to beleue the truth should be iustly condemned to beleue lyes the man of sinne and sonne of perdition had neuer aduauÌ„ced him selfe aboue all that is called God. 2. Thessal 2. And therefore M. Allen plucke not vs by the sleue but your self by the nose you are the heretikes that refuse to beleue the truth you are they that turne away your eares from truth to fables you are they that attend to spirites of error and doctrines of deuills forbidding to marry and abstayning from meates which God hath created to be receiued with thankes giuing There is the brande marke of Romish religion that all the water in Tiberis nor in the Ocean sea shal not be able to wash out Must we finde out the authors of your heresies Nay iustifie
prayer for the dead came from the Apostles then Tertullian could proue that oblation for the deade came from them To detest fasting on Sunday and to pray kneeling with diuerse like superstitions Tertullian referreth to the Apostles as well as prayer for the deade deny one and doubt of all the rest And whereas M. Allen vpon contemplation of Chrysostome wordes falleth into a hidden agony cryeth alasse alasse if he would consider what the same man writeth vpon the Epistle to the Philip. Hom. 3. he would not make so great mone the losse is not so great Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij modici quideÌ„ attamen iuuemus eos Let vs procure them some helpe in deede but small helpe yet let vs helpe them Loe M. Allen your owne doctor confesseth it is but smal help that can be procured by prayers almes or remembraunce of them at the celebration of the holy misteries You will say that soone after he sayth the Apostles that instituted such memory knewe that much commodity came to the deade Then see how soone he forgetteth him selfe when he followeth not the rule of holy Scripture Againe howe like you M. Allen that he alloweth not prayers nor the said memory to helpe them that were Catechumeni which were learning their catechisme and dyed before they were baptised S. Ambrose you say cap. 9. of this booke did pray and offer for Gratianus which was but Catechumenus and dyed before he was baptised Againe how agreeth this with your catholike doctrine which you boast is so well ordered to your handes that Chrysostome denyeth them prayers and alloweth them almes for their helpe Catechumenos verò neque isto solatio dignamur sed omni huiusmodi destituti sunt auxilio vno quodam dempto quo nam illo pauperibus illorum nomine dare licet vnde illis non nihil refrigerij accedet As for them that be Catechumeni we count them not worthy of so much as this comfort but they be destitute of all such aide except one What one is that we may giue some thinge for their sake to the poore whereof some refreshing shall come vnto them 6 But heare I pray you what notable wordes S. Damascen hath for the vtilitie and institution of these thinges The holy Apostles and disciples sayth he of our Sauiour Christ haue decried that in the dread soueraigne vndefiled and liuely Sacraments â—o he calleth the Masse there shoulde be kept a memoriall of those that haue taken their sleepe in faith the which ordinaunce vntill this day without gainsaying or controwling the Apostolike and Catholicke Church of God from one cost of the wide world to an other hath obserued and shall religiously keepe till the world haue an ende For doubtlesse these thinges that the Christian religion which is without error free from falshood hath so many ages and worldes continued vnuiolably not without vrgent cause those thinges I say are not vaine but profitable to man acceptable to God and very necessarye for our saluation Thus farre spake the doctor setting forth not onely his owne minde but the faith of a numbre of the peeres of Gods Church wherein to proue this doctrine to be catholike he fitly followeth the same way which Vincentius Lyrinensis gaue vs once for a rule to trye trueth by Prouing that it hath antiquitie as a thinge that came and hath continued euen from the beginning of the Christian religion declaring that it hath the consent of all nations because it is and hath bene practised through out all the costes and corners of the wyde worlde and last that it hath the approbation of the wisest and holyestmen that euer were in the Church of christ And more then all this that it shall so continue till the ende though it be for a time in some peculiar nations omitted because it is receiued into a parte of that worship of God which in the Church can not perishe 6 As for Damascene I know not wherefore his authoritie serueth but to fill vppe the number for neither is his credit nor his antiquitie comparable with the former we refuse not the rule of Vincentius Lyrinensis concerning antiquity so you can proue that it hath God to be the author the Prophets and Apostles As for witnesse vnder this antiquitie that which had an erroneous beginning shall haue a shamefull ending 7 And this prescription of trueth our aduersaires can not auoyde but with such vnseemely dealing as I trust they them selues now be ashamed of as all other reasonable men are For now let them come with brasen facies and blasphemous tounges and say that prayers for the deade be vnprofitable that the rites of the buriall be superstitious that to say the Masse and sacrifice to be propitiatory for the soules departed is iniurious to Christes death that the doctors praised the errours of the ignorant people of their dayes that they all erred and were deceiued that the Church of Christ hath bene ledde in darke ignorance till these our dayes let them bestowe these vaine presumptious wordes where they maye take place for nowe all wise men doe perceiue that all these haue their holy institution by Christ and his Apostles practised vniuersally in the primitiue Church embrased of all godly people and approued to be wholy consonant to Gods worde by the pillors of Christes Church who so consonantly agree together in this point as well for the practise and proofe as for the beginning therof that to dissent from them and trust in these reedes of our dayes were meere madnesse that are pufte to and fro with euery blast of doctrine that care not what they say so that they say not as other their forefathers sayed that had rather then they woulde geue ouer a singular opinion of their owne imagination refuse and denie the authoritie of so many notable wise auncient godly and well learned fathers whome we haue named Although we haue left out many of no worse iudgement plainely auouching these thinges to come into Christes Church and worship by the ordinaunce of his holy Apostles All which thinges if our aduersaries haue reade then they are in a most miserable and heuy taking that doe withstand an open knowen trueth and as I feare against their owne consciences too Or if they haue not reade these plaine assertions of all learned men sith Christes time then they are most impudent that so vainely bragge in a matter whereof they are not skillfull But I trust God will open their eyes and breake their prowde hartes to the obedience of his holy Church 7 Nay M. Allen your prescription is not yet proued that this geare came from Christ and the Apostles The oldest witnesse that you haue alledged fathered manifest fables vpon the institution of Christ the Apostles as you your selfe can not deny if you haue any conscience at all and therefore not sufficient to be credited for that you allege him Wherefore you may bestow where you list these swelling bragges
whose workes the aduersaries woulde be glad of one likely sentence And whose life and doctrine are so glorious in Gods Church that their owne aduersaries raling at vs aliue yet dare not but with great feare once blemish their names departed Though sometimes it brastithe out in some one of them to their owne miscredit So beutifull is the light of trueth And on the other side howe miserable is their carefull case that followe and defende that doctrine the authors whereof they dare neither acknowledge nor name whome all good men with open mouth boldely doe reprehend and their owne scholars dare not defende Such a glorious maiesty this doctrine of theires beareth that pricketh vp with pryde those that be alyue and blotteth out of honest memorie her doctors that be deade 10 Nay M. Allen though those doctors build some hay or stuble vpon the onely foundation Christ their case is ten thousand times better then yours which build nothing but dirt and donge tempered with hay and stuble vpon no foundation at all except it be the sande and seeke by all meanes to digge vp the onely true foundation of our fayth Iesus Christ making him nothing better then a common person except his bare name and woe may be to such Catholikes as can finde nothing but hay and stuble where such store of precious matter is and the most precious corner stone the foundation of all excellency And happy be those which not regarding the streames of waters that runne through the vaynes of earth but seeking to the onely fountayne of heauenly truth conteyned in the holy scriptures haue certeyne comfort of saluation while they are aliue and sure possession of felicitie with Christ as soone as they are dead yea which dye not at all because they beleue in Christ which is life nor enter into iudgement but passe from death of this body which is temporall vnto life of body and soule which is eternall The first Author of that secte vvhich denieth prayers for the departed is noted his good condicions and cause of his error be opened vvhat kinde of men haue bene most bent in all ages to that secte And that this heresy is euer ioyned as a fit companion to other horrible sectes CAP. XIIII 1 BVt yet because they haue diffamed our practise in praying and offering for the deade by referring it to a later origine then the Apostolike authority and tradition seeing we haue fathered our vsage vpon such as the aduersaries dare not blame we will helpe them to seeke out the fathers of their faithles perswasion lest by the feare and bashfullnesse of their owne scholars they be vnkindly forgotten Mary to finde out these obscure loyterers it will be somewhat painefull because as theeues doe they kepe by wayes and lightly treade not in honest mens pathes For the finding out of recordes for the testimony of our trueth we kepte the day light the high waye of Gods Church All the knowen notable personages in the holy Citye of God offered them selues both to witnesse and proue with vs VVe droue this trueth from our dayes through the middest of that holy communitie which S. Augustine calleth the Citye of God and our aduersaries will not saye otherwise but they were the liuely membres of that happy and heauenly fellowship VVe brought the practise of it to the holy Apostles by plaine accompte we went with the trueth of our cause to the lawe of Moyses from thense by like light to the lawe of nature But nowe for the other sorte we must leaue the cytie of God and the fellowship of these noble personages of doctors Apostles Prophets and Patriarches and seeke on the lifte hande in the other citye which is of Augustine named the citye or common welth as a man might call it of the deuill in which body all practise of mischiefe and origin of error ishuing from that vnhappy heade to the corrupt and deadly limmes thereof is to be founde VVe shall heare of the aduersary perswasion then in the company of Anabaptistes of Arrians of Saduceis of Epicures where so euer the weedes of the common enemies corrupte seede groweth there shall we find amongest breares and brembles this choking weede with all For as the true preachers the Apostles of Christ Iesu did sowe in the beginning of the Christian church which was the springe of the worde of lyfe and trueth amongest other heauenly seedes of true doctrine that profitable practise for the reliefe of such as were hense departed in the sleepe of peace with the decent ordre which euer fithens the Catholicke Church hath obediently followed euen so Inimicus homo superseminauit zizania the common enemy came afterwarde and ouersewe darnell and cockle either for the vtter choking or else for the especiall let of that good seede which the Maister of this fielde by his houshold seruauntes had plentifully sowen before This common aduersarie as our maister him selfe expoundeth it is the Deuill who as he in all other thinges beneficiall to mankinde is a great staye so Christian mens commoditie in this point he notably hindereth by his wicked suggestions and deuilish deuise whereby he prouoketh many vnder the shewe of Gods word or bare name therof for that is the lambes cote which this wyely wolfe boroweth to maske in to be vnkind vnnaturall and with out all godly affection towards their departed frendes The which contrary corrupt seede of false doctrine we right well know came of the sayd aduersary because it was long after ouersowen learning further of Tertullian Id verum esse quodcunque primum id adulterinum quod posterius That to be true that was first taught and that to be false and forged which came latter CAP. XIIII 1 WHen the Apostolike writing can not be shewed it is but the poynt of an heretike to boast of Apostolike tradition So did the Valentinians although their heresie were newe when they were confuted by the Scriptures shrowed them selues vnder the name of traditions as we haue shewed before out of Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 2. And therfore it is but vayne bragging that you promise to seeke out any other fathers of our perswasion then the Apostles of Christ by whose holy writings we neuer refuse to be iudged what if any heretike haue affirmed some thing that is true is truth worse in an heretikes mouth The deuills them selues confessed christ Their confession was true their testimony was refused So if any heretike haue confessed the truth we may receiue the truth and yet reiect his testimony For truth hath testimony of God his word and whether it be affirmed or denyed by the deuill it is all one The high way that you prate of is a bye way for the Scripture is the onely high way to the truth with the guidance of Gods spirite And yet that way which you haue taken hath so many hills and holes woods and thickets that you haue rather flyen ouer it in a dreame and imagination
and the whole congregation yea and speciall regard of the oblations of the poore And in the perticular rehearsing of diuerse kind of persons and the forme of the sacrifice named according to euery perticular state it is so farre of that the deade shall be reckned that such thinges are enioyned euery of these perticular persons to doe as it is playne that none but the liuing could offer or haue sacrifice offered for thē What law was appoynted touching lamenting for the deade you may reade Leuit. 21. how the Priest was forbidden to lament for any but speciall persons also Nu. 19. diuerse ordinances concerning the deade yet neuer any sacrifice or prayer for the deade When Nadab and Abihu were slayne their father and brethren were forbidden to mourne for them the people were permitted By all which it appeareth not only that no sacrifice for the deade was offered but that they were so separated from the liuing that the Priestes might haue nothing to do with any of them but in speciall cases And as for your common shift of the common body of the liuing and the deade helpeth you nothing for although all the faithfull make one body in Christ yet there is one state of them that worke an other of them that are iudged according to their works to put no diuersitie betwene them is not to make a communion but a confusion But of all other it is a clerkely cōclusion that you send M. Grindall to looke vpon the example of your masse whith is a sacrifice both for the quicke the deade and thereof will proue that the olde lawe had but one sacrifice for the liue and the deade In deede there you were to good for him if the practise of the popish church be a good president for Moyses to follow in his law we will reason no longer But the fact of Iudas Machabaeus putteth all out of doubt Surely then the fact of euery man that transgressed the lawe shall be sufficient to proue what the lawe was and not the booke of the lawe For else how coulde he haue conceiued any sacrifice which he neuer hearde of How did Dauid conceiue the cariage of the arke in a newe cart which he neuer heard of except it were of the Philistians that sent home the arke in a cart And euen so it is like that Iudas Machabaeus if he deuised not that sacrifice of his owne head yet tooke it by imitation of the Gentiles whose studies and practises your owne author confesseth were more frequented in those dayes among the Iewes then the preaching or keeping of the law Finally to all the other howe 's and whyes I aunswere with one word he had no warrant of his fact in the law of god Neither doth S. Augustine sufficiently answere the heretike that would proue by that fact that men dying in deadly sinne might be saued by sacrifice For though they were not vncircumcised for whom Iudas sent an offering yet they dyed in deadly sinne and such sinne as for which they were iustly slayne as your owne author confesseth for the idolatrous iewells that they had euery one in their bosomes Concerning the authoritie of that booke and how it was taken by Augustine I haue aunswered enough before 4 But here will I nowe make an ende desiring thee gentle reader with such indifferency to weighe the doing and dealing of both parties as the importaunce of the cause the loue of truth the necessary care of thine owne saluation and thy duety towardes God and his Church requireth There is none of all those pointes which the vnfaithfull contention of our miserable age hath made doubtefull in which thou mayest better beholde howe vpright the wayes of trueth and vertue be and howe pernicious double and deceitfull the dealing of heresie is The one is vpholden by the euidēt testimony of holy scripture the other mainteineth her traine by bolde deniall of scriptures the one seeketh with humility the meaning at their mouthes whome God hath vndoubtedly blessed with the gifte of vnderstanding and interpretation the other by singular pride foundeth her vnfaithfulnesse vpon the phantasies of light and lewde persons that are pufte too and fro with euery blaste of doctrine The one resteth vpon the practise of all nations the vsage of all ages and the holy workes both of God and man the other holdeth wholy by contempte of our elders flatery of the present dayes and vnhappy waste of all workes of vertue religion and deuotion the one followeth the gouernours and appointed pastours of our soules whose names be blessed in heauen and earth the other ioyneth to such as for other horrible heresies wicked life are condemned both a liue and deade of the vertuous and can not for shame be named of their owne scholars The one hath the warraunt of Gods whole Church the other standeth on curse and excommunication by the grauest authority that euer was vnder God in earth To be shorte trueth is the Churches dearlinge heresie must haue her maintenaunce abrode This one holy Catholike and Apostolike Church is it wherevnto we owe all duety and obedience both by Gods commaundement and by the bonde of our first faith and profession There is no force of argument no probability of reason no subtelty of witte no deepe compasse of wordely wisedome no eloquence of man nor Angell nor any other motion that can be wrought in the world that shoulde make a man doubte of any article approued by her authority And if thou yet feare to geue ouer thy whole sense and thine owne selfe to so carefull a mother in whome thou wast begotten in thy better birth compare our Church with theirs compare her authority and theirs her maiesty and theirs 4 In Gods name let the readers waye indifferently the doinges and dealinges on both partes the cause the trueth their saluation the Church and the glory of God aboue all thinges And as they see this pointe handeled so let them iudge of the reste The trueth is vpholden by euident testimony of scripture the error by custome practise and iudgement of men The trueth seeketh vnderstanding of the scriptures of the spirite of God in the scriptures error at the mouthes of mortall men The trueth resteth vpon the onely authority of God error vpon the maintenaunce of carnall deuises The trueth is founded vpon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles the other vpon Gentiles and heretikes Trueth is embraced of the pure and primitiue Church of Christ error is continued from a corrupt state of the Church of Christ vnto a plaine departing awaye into the church of Antichrist To be short trueth is tryed by the worde of God heresie by the inuention of men The holy Catholicke and Apostolicke Church is that which humbly obeyeth the word of God and the Synagoge of Satan is that which arrogantly challengeth authoritie aboue the worde The true Church shall neuer decaye but alwaye reigne with Christ the false Synagoge shall daily more and more decaye
charge them with other authorities that the Papistes alleage beside the authoritie of holy scriptures And in his booke De Vniâ—ate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes the 16. chapter Sed vtril ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum scripturarum Canonicis libris oftendant quia nec nos c. But whether they holde the church or no let them shew none other wise but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture for we our selues doe not say that men ought to beleue vs that we are in the Church because we holde that Church which Optatus of Mileuitum or Ambrose of Millayn or innumerable other Byshops of our communion haue commended to vs or because it is set forth by the Councels of our felowe byshops or because so many myracles of hearing requests or healinges are don in the holy places which our fellowship doth frequent in the whole worlde so that the bodies of Martyrs which were hidden so many yeares which thinge if they will aske they may heare of many were reuealed vnto Ambrose and that at the same bodies one that had bene many yeares blinde very well knowen in the citie of Millayn receyued his eyes and eye sight either because this man dreamed or that man was rauished in the spirite and hearde a voice that he should not ioyne himselfe to Donatus or that he shoulde departe from the faction of Donatuâ— for when soeuer such thinges are don in the Catholike Church they are to be allowed because they are don in the Catholike church â–ª but the church it selfe is not therfore proued to be Catholike because these thinges are done in it By this Augustine declareth first that heretikes must be confuted onely by the scriptures and secondly that neither Councells succession of byshops vniuersality miracles visions dreames nor reuelations are the notes to trie the Catholike church but onely the scriptures Moreouer in his booke De Pastoribus cap. 14. Quaerit infirmus Ecclesiam c. A weake person seeketh the Church he wandreth and seeketh the church â–ª what sayest you The church is of Donatus side Enquire for the shepheards voice Reade me this out of some Prophet reade me this out of some Psalme rehearse me it out of the lawe rehearse it out of the Gospell rehearse it out of the Apostle out of them do I rehearse the Church dispersed ouer all the worlde And a litle after Tu accusas non Euangelium c. Thou accusest not the Gospell thou accusest not the Prophet not the Apostle of whome this voyce speaketh to me I beleue him other I beleue not But thou wilt bring forth decrees I will also bring forth decrees shoulde I beleue thine beleue thou mine likewise I beleue not thine neither do thou beleue mine then let mens writings be layd away and let Gods worde sounde betwen vs bring me one place of scripture for Donatus side c. These places maye sufficiently declare by what meanes this doctor thought the Church shoulde ouerthrowe heresies namely by the worde of God onely which thing also Leo the first byshop of Rome in his Epist. 10. ad Fabianum contra Eutychen plainely confesseth saying Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt qui cum ad cognoscendam veritatem c. But those men fal into this foly which when they are hindred by any doubt to knowe the trueth haue not recourse to the voyces of the Prophets not to the writings of the Apostles not to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues And therefore they become maisters of error because they haue not bene schollers of trueth Of the same iudgement was the whole Councell of Constantinople the sixt as appeare Actione 18. Si igitur omnes simpliciter c. Therefore if all men from the beginning woulde haue simply and without subtiltie taken vpon them the preaching of the Gospell and haue bene content with the constitutions of the Apostles suerly matters shoulde haue bene well and in good case neither shoulde painefull contention haue bene exercised against the authors of heresies nor against the fauorers of priests Here the Councell confesseth that the heretikes and schismatikes grow so fast because they were not beaten downe by preaching of the Gospell and authority of the scriptures Thus I haue declared by example and authority of these Fathers that the true Church of Christ hath conuicted all heretikes onely by the scripture 2 And what Church it was that hath alwayes stande still and stedfast whilest all other Congregations as well of Arrians as Anabaptistes Aerians Nouatians Vigilantians Iouinians and the rest haue decaied THe true Church of Christ hath alwayes stoode stedfast and vnseparable from Christ her heade when all heretikes haue bene and shal be confounded But the true Church hath not alwaies florished in wordly peace and tranquilitie for vntill the tyme of Constantine the great which was Anno Dom. 339. the Church had small rest from cruell persecution in most places and soone after againe vnder the Emperors Constantius Constans and Valens it was greatly infected with the heresie of Arius what time also Tiberius Bishop of Rome was infected with the same heresie After that when Iulianus the Apostata was Emperor the temples of Idolls were opened and gentilitie againe restored so that the Church suffered great detriment To be short when the barbarous Goathes Vandales Alanes and other Idolatrous or heretical nations destroyed the Empire the Church of God suffered a great Ecclipse But when Mahomet in the East Antichrist the Pope in the West seduced the world with most detestable heresie then was fulfilled that which was reuealed to S. Iohn in the 12. of the Apocalyps the woman clothed with the Sonne which you your self confesse to be the Church was so persecuted by the Dragon that she fled into the wildernes there to remaine a long season Where she hath not decayed but ben always preserued vntil God should reueale Antichrist and bring her againe into open light which his holy name be praysed is now brought to passe in our dayes to our inestimable comfort and his euerlasting glory 3 And if it can be proued that either the Protestants Church or any other Church but ours hath mightely ouerthrowne these foresayd sectes and other of all sortes I recant IT hath bene already proued sufficiently that the true Catholike Church which is ledde onely by the worde of God as a most infallible rule hath ouerthrowne heresies of all sortes But the popish church which refuseth the only weapon by which heresies are cut downe to be sufficient for that purpose neuer was nor shall be strong enough to encounter with heretikes therefore she practiseth to vanquish those whom she counteth for heretikes not by authoritie of the Scriptures but by fire and sworde and cruell warre as appeareth by her dealing with the Waldenses Albigenses Bohemians and in our dayes with the true Christians But where her power of fire and sword could not preuayle there hath she not ouerthrowne such as she condemneth for
sermon in such sorte that the common people might vnderstand it and in the 45. Canon they decreed that euery Christian shoulde learne the Creede and the Lorde his prayer Et qui aliter non potuerit vel in sua lingua hoc discat that is And he that can not yet let him learne it in his owne tongue Whereby they declare that they desier to reteine the latine tongue still but rather than the people shoulde be ignorant they commande them to learne their prayers and beleefe in their mother tongue Also by the 43. Canon wherein they iudge that no preeste can saye Masse alone it appeareth that the people commonly vnderstood the latine seruice for they aske how he shoulde saye Dominus vobiscum and admonish the people to lifte vp their heartes and diuers like sayinges where there is none by him but him selfe Nowe if the people vnderstoode not these sayinges it were all one whether they were present or absent Also in the Councell of Rhenes holden in Fraunce about the same time the like decree was made cap. 15. that bishops studie to preache sermons and homelies of the holy fathers so that all men maye vnderstand according to the property of their tongue Finally in the Councell of Laterane holden vnder Pope Innocent the third Anno Dom. 1215. in which Councell transubstantiation was first established the 9. chapter it was plainely decreed that forasmuch as within one citie and diocesse people of diuers languages be mingled together hauing vnder one Faith diuers rites and maners we streightly commande that the bishops of such cities and diocesses prouide able men which according to the diuersitie of their rites and languages celebrate vnto them the diuine seruice and minister the sacramentes instructing them both by worde and example Hereby it appeareth that when the latine tongue was either almost or altogether growen out of the common peoples vnderstandings order was taken that common prayers should be sayed and sacramentes ministred in the mother tongue of euery nation But the bishops which shoulde haue seene it put in execution either negligently omitted it or willingly refused to doe it because it was more for their profit to kepe the people in blinde ignorance So thus I haue shewed that sodenly the tongue of common prayer was not altered 10 Tell me what yeare of our Lorde vnder what Emperour vnder what Pope by whome these thinges were wrought vpon what occasion this marueillous mutation was made WHo can tell the originall of euery blind custome and peuish tradition of euery olde error and foolish fashion it is sufficient to shew that these thinges haue no grounde in the scripture of God they were not taught by Christ and his Apostles nor receiued in the church that followed immediatly after them and then we are bolde to say with Tertullian This preiudice there is against all heresies how soeuer they came vp or when soeuer they sprange vp That is true that was first and that is false that is latter therefore from the beginning it was not vsed to praye for the deade nor to the deade from the beginning common prayer was not in an vnknowen tongue Wherefore prayer for the deade and to the deade with prayer in a strange tongue are false when soeuer they beganne or how long soeuer they continued 11 VVho preached against it what historie maketh mention of it who of all your Pastors preached against it was God his Church so voide of the spirit of Trueth and strength that euen then when it most florished it had none that durst open against â—uch corruption of religion as it entred in and when it might soone haue bene repressed BEfore you demande what yeare the religion of the Papistes came in and whether it came in sodenly and as though we shoulde aunswere that it came in sodainely you demande who preached against it c. This is to fight with your owne shadowe for we say not that it came in sodainely but that it entred by small degrees at the first and therefore was lesse espied by the true Pastors especially being earnestly occupied against great heresies and open aduersaries that sought to beate downe the cheefe foundations of Christian faith as the Valentinians Marcionistes Manichees Arrians Sabellians and such like monsters So when Satan had gotten in one foote by such craftie pollitie he neuer rested vntill he had thrust in his whole bodie with the power of Antichrist 12 If it coulde not shew me then what yeare of the Lorde this mutation was made and who of all the true preachers did with stand this doctrine SO often as you demande one thinge so often must I aunswere after one sorte this mutation was not all in one yeare nor in one hundreth yeares nor in one thousand of yeares for transubstantiation no small article of your religion was not decreed vntill the yeare of God 1215. what preachers haue withstoode your doctrine at diuers times are declared before in the aunswere to the 8. Article 2. demande 13 Or note the name of him that euer first preached any article of our doctrine and if we note you not by their names euery one of your Capitaines and the seuerall errors that they tought and the time and the yeare when they arose against the former receyued trueth and the Councells in which they were orderly condemned if I saye this can be done of your side towarde vs or if we doe it not for improofe of your Church and religion I recant I Haue noted in the answere to the 6. article 3. demande the names of diuers heretikes that first preached diuers articles of your religion and further I note vnto you Pelagius and Coelestius which tought that free will without grace coulde doe somewhat towardes eternall saluation and that grace was geuen according to merite which article you teach also with culler of a distinction De congruo condigno which is a meere cauill for God is as much bounde vnto congruitie as to dignitie or worthinesse and as he can doe nothing against worthinesse no more can he doe any thing against congruitie which is a kinde of Equitie And whereas you bragge to note vnto vs euery one of our Capitaines c. except you note vnto vs the Patriarches Prophets Apostles Euangelistes and Christ himselfe you shall neuer be able to performe that you promise for we teache nothing but the eternall trueth of God wherefore we refuse not to be counted heretikes if you can proue that we holde any one article of faith contrarie to the scripture you may perchaunce note the names of them that preaching the trueth of our doctrine against your receyued errors were accounted of the world for heretikes but you must proue that their opinions are contrarie to the worde of God or els all your labour is in vaine we confesse also that some articles of our doctrine were taught by heretikes as there was neuer no heresie which had not many thinges common with true Religion but yet in
opening of Gods spirite But omitting this matter as touched by the way with two other pages following as containing nothing materiall to be aunswered I will come to the third leafe and second face where you promise an orderly proceeding in the matter you take in hand Which order of yours if you had not professed your selfe to obserue men might haue taken your hochpot to be such as your matter would bring forth that the treaty of Purgatory should be like the troublesome state therof but when you are not content to haue your methode counted to be of the nature of your matter but you will needes make boast of an orderly proceeding in so disordered a cause you must not be offended if your confusion in steade of order be sometime discouered Howbeit the want of order were a small fault if the matter were pregnant and certaine But what assurance shall other men haue of your doctrine when you your selfe affirme and haue learned as you say out of Irenaeus that such doctrine and mysteries may not be safely had at such a mans hand as you are but onely of holy Priestes and Byshops which with the succession of their office haue receiued a sure and certaine gift of truth according to the pleasure of their father It is the duety not onely of a good teacher but euen of a good Christian to say with the Psalmist I haue beleued and therefore I haue spoken If you beleue not these matters why haue you vttered them â–ª â—f you beleue them then be bold to shew vs your grounds out of the word of god For other perswasion then â—uch as is grounded vppon the hearing of Gods worde will neuer of Christians be counted for true beliefe so long as the 10. chapter to the Romanes remaineth in the Canon of the Bible But I knowe your meaning you affect the prayse of humilitie and modestie For wauering and vncertaintie in faith among Papistes is counted modâ—stie but this modesty is soone forgotten and this boldnesse nowe vtterly refused in the next leafe â—ollowing is not onely resumed by your selfe but also enioyned to others Be bolde blush not you might say though you should for shame to charge any of our aduersaâ—â—es c. A sodaine chaunge he that euen now neither can nor must be bolde although he hâ—d many more giftes then he hath and studied much longer then he hath done to expounde the holy Scripture without daunger to him selfe and his hearers because he hath not the certaine gifte of truth with ordinary succession by and by is growne to such a full perswasion of truth expressely proued by argument and authoâ—itie that men must be bold vppon his warrant to charge all his aduersaries either to be helde thereby or else with no honesty to escape his handes A man would maruaile to beholde this speedy alteration if he did not vnderstand the true difference betwene the certaine faith of a Christian and the obstinate blindenesse of an hereticke For when he compareth his opinion with the authority of Gods word where vpon true faith is builded he will not he can not he must not be bolde to vnderstand the scriptures he wanteth that certaine gifte of truth but when he remembreth that he can not deceiue others nor retaine the glory of constancy him selfe by doubtfulnesse and vncertainty then he â—aunteth braggeth of the force of his feeble arguments and vnsufficient auâ—horitie But concerning the place of Irenaeus by him alleged I must admonish the reader that his meaning was not that euery one that succedeth in a Byshoppes seate hath as necessarily annexed to his see that certaine gifte of veritie wherby he may expound the Scripture without error as maister Allen perhaps woulde insinuate But that some in the first age of the Church as they succeded the holy Byshoppes and elders that were ordained by the Apostles in place and office so also it pleased God their father that they shoulde succede in the like gifts and namely in that excellent gifte of interpretation of the Scriptures which was but extraordinarie and for a season For if it had been an ordinarie thing that euery Byshop by succession shoulde receiue that gifte there shoulde neuer haue been any heretike Byshops as there haue been many and againe that prerogatiue which Maister Allen him selfe will affirme to be peculiar to the Byshop of Rome shoulde be made common to euery other blinde Byshop where so eâ—er he sat which were a great absurditie in popery it selfe And as for the gift of the interpretation of scriptures God gâ—ueth it still though not in such full measure nor coÌ„monly without ordinary meanes allowed in the Scripture as reading comparing praying neuer the lesse with as full persuasion in matters concerning Gods honour our saluation by his holy Spirite as euer he did bestowe the same in any age And as for the helpes of learning requisite for the same as knowledge of the tongues and rationall sciences there was neuer greater stoâ—e in the church of Christ son Christ his time ye if we shall iudge by the writings and stories of all ages vnlesse we will be as impudent as maister Allen we must say there was neuer so great store of learning in any age as Gods holy name be praised there is now in these our dayes in menne professing Christian religion with what conscience can maister Allen affirme that there was neuer lesse store of learning then in this age when euen in remembraunce of men that are aliue there was a great deale lesse store then is nowe but in their fathers and grandfathers time there was almost nothing but rudenesse and barbarousnesse euen with the same conscience that soone after he affirmeth that pleasure is euer ioyned to the Protestants doctrine which more preuaileth then the preachers perswasion If you had meant Master Allen that peace of God which passeth all vnderstanding which they tast of that by the Protestants doctrine haue learned that they are iustified by faith Phil. 4. Rom. 5. and to that perpetual ioy in the holy Ghost whereunto we are exhorted by the Apostle Phil. 4. wherein the kingdom of God consisteth Rom. 14. we willingly would haue consented that such pleasure is alwayes ioyned to the Protestants doctrine but seeing it is more like you speake of carnall pleasures I must say thus much to confound your blasphemous tongue and to dashe out your slaunderous writing let the worlde witnesse that heareth our doctrine and God iudge that seeth our hearts whether carnall pleasures be ioyned to our teaching which daily preach with all vehemency and earnestnes vnfained repentaunce mortification deniall of our selues bearing of the crosse hatred of this world amendment of life holines and righteousnes and that vnder paine of euerlasting damnation And whether pleasure more then the godly perswasion of the preachers preuaileth to winne professors of our doctrine if it be not so clearly seene in this Church of England by the meanes of the great peace
but they had it out of Gods holy worde and tradition of the holy Apostles and by the very suggestion of the spirite of trueth All which if it can not moue the misbeleuer and stay the rashenesse of the simple deceiued sort it shall be but lost labour to bring in any more for the confirmation of that trueth which all the holy doctours haue so fully both proued and declared to my hande 5 The tales that you tell out of Gregory and Bede may be hearde as they are tolde and beleeued as they deserue but that you make the opinion of purgatory such an article of faith that no article with more force of the spirite nor with more graue authority was set forth sence the beginning of Christian religion and yet neuer taught in the scripture that is by no meanes to be borne with all If Sathan hath labored to plante that error which is most blasphemous against Christ and occasion of most licentious wickednesse in all them that professe Christ and beleue it if Sathan I saye hath bent all his force to plante such an error by which his kingdome is so much aduaunsed no wise man can maruell Of like leuen it is that you affirme That neuer nation was conuerted to the fayth but it had purgatory taught by worde and confirmed by miracle O impudent affirmer Of so many nations as S. Luke recordeth in the Actes of the Apostles to haue bene conuerted to the fayth name one vnto which you can proue that purgatory was taught eyther by worde or miracle But to be sure you name all euen of the primitiue Church when that aboundant floude of faith was spred ouer all countries But when the proofe commeth you leape but 600. yeares from Christ to Gregories dialogues from which time I will not deny but you may haue great store of such stuffe as you haue miracles now in Flaunders of the honest woman of the olde Baylye in London and such like 6 But nowe for vs that through Gods greate mercy be Catholikes let vs for Christes sake so vse the benefit of this our approued faith to the amendement of our owne liues that where no argument will serue nor authority of Scripture or doctour can conuerte the deceiued yet the fructe of this doctrine shewed by good life and vertuous conuersatioÌ„ may by Christes mercy moue them Let the priest consider that this heuy iudgement must beginne at the house of God as S. Peter affirmeth and so doth S. Ambrose proue it must do In whome for the dignity of his honorable ministery as much more holynesse is requisite so a more straite reckening must be required Let the Lay man learne for the auoyding of greater daunger in the presence of the highe Iudge willingly to submit him selfe to Gods holy ministers VVho haue in most ample maner a commission of executing Christes office in earth both for pardoning and punishment of sinne that suffering here in his Church sentence and iuste iudgement for his offensies he may the rather escape our fathers greuous chastisement in the life to come Therefore I woulde exhorte earnestly the minister of God that in geuing penaunce he would measure the medecine by the maladie aptly discerning the limitation of the punishment by the quantity of the faulte not vsing like lenity in closing vp of euery wounde For they shall not be blamelesse surely that do the worke of Gods iudgement committed to their discretion negligently nor the simple soule that lookes to be set free from further paine can by the acceptation of such vnâ—quall remedies auoide the scourge of iudgement prepared except he him selfe voluntaryly receiue as I woulde wishe all men shoulde some further satisfaction by the fructes of penaunce that of his owne accorde he may helpe the enioyned penalty and so by Gods grace turne away the great greefe to come Excellently well and to our purpose saide S. Cyprian in the fourth booke of his epistles talking of such offenders as were not charged with penaunce sufficiently or otherwise negligently fulfilled the same by these wordes We shall not herein any thing be preiudiciall to Gods iudgement that is to come that he may not allow and ratifie our sentence if he finde the perfect penaunce of the party so require But if the offender haue deluded vs by fayned accomplishing of his penaunce then God who will not be deluded because he beholdeth the hearte of man shall geue iudgement of such thinges as were hidde from vs And so our Lorde will amende the sentence of his seruauntes VVhere this doctour seemeth to allude to the accustomed name of Purgatory which S. Augustine and other do often call the amending fire Though it may well be that he here calleth the contrary sentence of iudgement to eternall damnation vpon the impenitent sinner whome the priest because he coulde not discerne the fayned hypocrasy of his externall dealing from the inward sorow of hearte pronounced to be absolued of his sinnes it may stande I say that he termeth that contrary sentence of God the correction or the amendement of the priestes iudgement How so euer that be it is a worke of singular grace and discretion so to deale with the spirituall patient that he haue no nede of the amending fire 6 Here is an exhortation vnto Papistes first to the priestes that they will shew the fructe of this doctrine in their conuersation For my parte â— am perswaded if feare of eternall torments in Hell that God threatneth by his scriptures will not terrify them the fayned paines of purgatory which they can by their owne Masses and other like merits auoide will not restraine them The laye men are exhorted to submitte them selues to the priestes who haue such an ample commission that they may both pardon and punish sinne euen as Christ him selfe did vpon earth But what auayleth this submission when the ignorant or negligent priest that weigheth not the penaunce in euen ballance with the offence doth not by his absolution or pardonning take awaye one houres torments of purgatory as both M. Allen him selfe in effect confesseth and the Maister of the sentence also teacheth vnto whome M. Allen hath bene so good a scholler that he hath borowed of him not onely his iudgement but in diuerse places his very wordes also he hath translated Of the nature and condicion of Purgatory fire the difference of their state that be in it from the damned in Hell vvith the conclusion of this booke CAP. XIII 1 IF any curious heade list of me demaunde where or in what parte of the worlde this place of punishment is or what nature that fire is of that worketh by such vehement force vppon a spirituall substance I will not by longe declaration thereof feede his curiosity because he may haue both the example and the like doubt of Hell it selfe and many other workes of God moe The learned may see that question at large debated in the bookes of the City of God and in
not nowe that they renounce all that helpe of Councells Doctors which with vauntes they clamed before whiles they impudently make a diuision or contrarietie betwixt them and the holy scripture And we take it at their hand as an open acknowledging of their lacke there where they pretended greatest store The which thinge if they likewise would confesse openly in pulpit and in plaine words as they meane nothing lesse when they shew the people that they were but men that they might erre that they followed the custome of the common people in their time that they are not to be receiued but where they agree with scripture that them selues must try whether they be consonant to the word of God or no if they would I say without such cloked wordes bouldly pronounce as Luther their maister did that they cared not for a hundreth Augustines or Hieroms that they esteemed not the consent of all nations that they would be tryed by the iudgement of no coūcell that they would purposely runne contrary to the Councells decree in all causes that they would take that for thonely truth which is conteined in the holy Scriptures and that for Scripture which them selues thought good and last of all that for the true meaning which agreed best to the vpholding of error and heresie then would the people leaue these lewde masters on the plaine field which now they keepe with them one while by the praises of the doctors and antiquitie and somewhiles by thabasing of them againe and deceitfull referring all to the onely Scriptures to which they say credit may safely be giuen where the doctors without daunger can not be further followed then as they be not found to disagree with Gods word So that the cause seemeth now to be driuen to this ishue in the eyes of thignorant whether men should rather beleue the Scipture or the doctors the word of God that can not be false or the fathers that were but men and therfore might erre deceiue and be deceiued 3 But that you loue to spende many wordes about a thinge of naught you might haue spoken as much in three wordes as you haue done in three leaues But that I maye breefely cut of your lauesh lippe labor whereas you vse in deede as greate impudencie as you charge vs withall in wordes first you would make our chalenge contrary to it self as though one while we boast of the doctors and then being driuen from them we flie to the Scriptures They that dayly heare our preaching with any diligence peruse our writing can beare vs witnes that you doe falsely shamefully belie vs For we stand for authoritie onely to the iudgement of the holy Scriptures and whatsoeuer we say of fathers councells or the most auncient primitiue Church it is either for testimony of our truth or for conuiction of your lying For it is you M. Allen the Papists that boast of all antiquitie all fathers all doctors all councells all Churches to be all togither on your side among whom as we will not deny but you haue some Patrones of some of your errors so will we affirme that you haue more enemies in the greatest of your heresies And therefore this ishue is rightly ioyned and without any Ieofayle vpon this point that the Scripture is to be credited rather then the doctors the word of God rather then the writings of men 4 But this is not the state of our controuersie nor of any question betwixt the Catholikes and them And that they knowe full well though they craftely cloke it with chaunge of wordes for we acknowledge most gladly that if any Doctor Prophet Apostle or Angell if it were possible preach vnto vs any thing against the word and truth of Gods Scripture that he is accursed of God and to be reiected of men But here is the stand and the point of all our doubtes in generall note it well Maister Protestaunt whether the auncient fathers some of them being in Christes time diuers of them scholars to his Apostles many within one hundreth or two of yeares afterward most of them more thē a thousand yeares since I speake of such as we haue named in our cause all wonderfully learned as well in the knowledge of the secretes of Gods mysteries as the tongues all mercifully endued with great giftes and graces all exceeding studious in the Scriptures all hauing the same testament and written worde of God that we now haue all vsing meruelous diligence in the conference of diuers places for the true meaning and vnderstanding of the same all hauing feruent zeale in teaching the Christian people all at times appoynted resorting togither from diuers partes of the world to some one general search in which by humble conference togither and prayer they doubted not to obteyne the spirite of truth as it was by our Maister promised the question is now then I say whether those holy men thus holpen by nature diligence time and grace be not more like to vnderstand the Scripture then these men which either lacke all these helpes or most of them Secondly it followeth thereupon whether we should rather giue credit to them affirming purgatory and prayers for the deade to be not onely consonant but plainely proued by the Scriptures or else to our new aduersaries auouching these thinges to be against the Scripture VVhereby you see we must not nowe reason whether we ought to beleue the doctors or the Scriptures better but whether for the true sense we must not beleue the olde fathers better then these newe fooles 4 In wordes you graunt our ishue because you knowe that all the cuntry of christians would otherwise go against you but in deede you deny it For the ishue which you would ioyne vpon is both captious and doubtfull Captious because it disioyneth those thinges which are not to be separated namely the Scripture and the true meaning thereof Doubtfull because it standeth vpon a likelyhoode and not vpon a certeinty For thus you ioyne whether the olde doctors be more like to vnderstand the Scriptures then the Protestants I haue aunswered before we wil make no comparison with them Neither will we challenge the likelyhood to vs neither will we leaue it to them for whether so euer we doe we shall be neuer the more certeine of the truth But this will we set downe as a most certeine principle that no man can vnderstand the Scriptures but by the same spirite by which they were written What then shall we arrogate the spirite as proper to vs and deny it to them God forbid They had their measure of Gods spirite we humbly thanke his maiestie so haue we How then is the spirite of God contrary to it selfe because they and we agree not in all thinges God forbid Cyprian and Cornelius were both endued with Gods spirite and both Martyres yet they agreed not both in one interpretation nor iudgement of the scripture what then there remaineth but this second
Protestant is posed Lib. 8. constit 49. 1. Epist. ca. 5 The church maye praye for any sinner in this life vvith hope of mercy Carth. Lib. 21. Cap. 24. Bracarens Cap. 34. Vide Timo. Alexand. respons 14. Heretikes not to be praide for after their death Homil 21. in Cap. 9. Actuum VVho be most apte to receiue benefite by the prayers of the liuing Enchir. cap. 110. Lib. 4. epist. 5. Tractat 84. in IoanneÌ„ Hovv prayer vvhich taketh no effect in the departed is profitable to the procurer Act. 5. 1. ad Tim. 1. 1. Cor. 5. Concilium AphricanuÌ„ Epist. 9. The heretikes called vpon to aunsvvere The vvhole matter ordered to our handes The common names of honour geueÌ„ to the holy Masse in old time S. lib. epist. 33. epist. praecat prima praeparante ad Missam b super vndec prouer c Histor. tripartit 24. d cap. li. 10. d The force and institution of the holy Masse The nevve communion is here described Heresie vvith her disordered ministers shal not out face Gods church and Christes eternall priesthood Psal. 100. Mat. 16. The holy Masse taken avvaye for our sinnes Men that vvere greuous offenders in olde time punished by lacke of the sacrifice De Coena domini Ita Policarp ex Iren. Victor de persecut Vandal Eccles. ca. 7. Epist. 8. li. 2. Homil. 3. in EpistolaÌ„ ad Philipp Theodor â–ª dial 2. Aug. super psal 98. Dionis ecclesiast hierarch cap. 3. Basil. de spiritu Sanct. cap. 17. Lib. 3. de Trin. c. 10. Lib. 20. contra Faustum cap. 13. Lib. 10. Histo trip ca. 18 20. Theodosius Iun. 12. Lib. tripartit ca. 2. Euseb. in vita Constantini 2 Orat. in Iulian. In 2. Cap. ad Heb. hom 4. Hierom. Epitap Paulae De cura pro mortuis agenda De ciuit 1. Lib. c. 12. 13. Cap. 18. de cura pro mort The sainctes pray for the soules in purgatory vve pray vnto saictes for them Cap. 4. de cura pro mort Super 11. cap. Prouer. Masse alvvaye saide for the departed Ambros. epist. 8. l. 2. If the nevv byshoppes vvere like S. Ambros. their teaching vvold not be contrary to his Super obit Theodosij Imperatoris Super obitu Valentiniani In oratione funebr super Satyr In Epist. 1. ad Amandum Epist. 3. Ex lib. 9. Confess ca. 11.13 vlt. Note the vvhole History and feare not to follovv it The cursed Cham hath many children in our dayes Cap. 13. lib. 9. vltimo M Grindall looke in your grammer vvhat figure S. Augustin vsed heâ—â— Possidonius in vita August Beda lib. 1. cap. 31. Lib. 4. hist. cap. 21. That faith is the true faith into vvhich our nation vvas first coÌ„uerted from infidelity Note and take heede betÃme If praying for the dead vvere takeÌ„ avvay ther should no steppe of religion remayne All our superintendents are deepely daily periured A harde questioÌ„ proposed to the Protestant Super Aggaeum So sayth S. Augustine ofteÌ„ against the Pelagians De cura pro mort Constitut. l. 8. cap. 47. Eccles. hierarch c. 17. In homil contra Sabellian Athan ad Epitectum Ita Suidas testatur Origen Athan Damascen Nicenum 2. Epist. 9. li. 1. De cura pro mortuis alibi saepe Lyturgia Chrysosto Lyturgia Basilia Vniuersalis Canon Lyturgia ArmenioruÌ„ In prima prece praeparatoria ad missam A notable solemne prayer of S. Ambroâ—e for the soules departed De Ecclesi officijs lib. 1. Cap. 15. Lib. 2. cap. 3. Contra epistolaÌ„ Parmeniani Epist. 107. contra Vital I gesse it vvas M. Pilkinton of Duresme De prescri aduers. haereti Epist. 165. Lib. 3. cap. 3 Note De simplicit praelatorum By heretiks preaching many are become Catholikes Our Masse is all one vvith the Masses of aâ—l other cuntries and tymes Against the Chester maÌ„ Looke the Iniunction for the mariage of Priestes other thiÌ„gs The youngers must thus pose their maisters Irenaeus Lib. 3. cap. 2 In confessione VVittember In Apologia Instit. de Coena Epistol ad Ianuar. de Baptis contra Donatist lib. 4. cap. 24. Sermone 2. de ieiunio A sure vvay to try the beginning of any doctrine Note De corona militis Ser. 22. de ver Apost Hostia incruenta The Apostles be the orderers of our sacrifice Psalm 49. The ende of schisme Quâ—st 34. ad Antioch Ibidem The rule of trueth Heretikes do against their ovvne consciences Note Note the gile of an heretike Note Psal. 36. Lib. 2. contra Iulian. Lib. 2. contra Iulian. The high vvaye of trueth The by vvay of heresy Math. 13. Tertul. de praescript Our Protestantes be inspired by Damascens iudgement Of the author of this nevv sectâ— Lib. 3. cap. 4. The trial of false preachers A generall rule to knovve heresie by Cap. 75. li. 3. In Anacephal Arius Aërius In lib. de haeres ad Quod vult One that hath forsaken the Church is indifferent to vvhat heresie you vvill And therefore they call their doinges Proceding Prouer. 18. Vbi sup 13. Note vvell Damascen in oratione pro defunctis de haeres Note vvell hovv this falshood euer ioyneth it selfe to other horrible sectes Sermone 66. super cantic I trovve no Protestant caÌ„ ansvvere vvith reason to thiâ— point Here this sect ioyneth vvith the sacrameÌ„tariés and the rest of miscreaunts Marke vvel Vide Hiero nimuÌ„ sup 3. ad Galatas Ioan. 9. Cap. 79. Cap. 34. Cap. 2. Note In initio Concilij Florentini The holy Councel of Trente hath also determined the same against the heretikes of our times All heretikes do coÌ„demne couÌ„cels The humble obedience of Catholikes to the gouernours of Gods Church Ruffin Hovve they practise vvith the simple Greâ—â— impudeÌ„cy in heretikes The sophistry of heretikes Here lyeth the doubt and diuersitie betvvixt heretikes Catholikes Cap. 1. Cap. 7. Cap. 5. Cap. 14. Phisic 1. l. An ansvver to the first place Esay 38. Bern. ser. 4. de fest omniuÌ„ Sanct. Amb. super 5. ad Romanos Caluins absurd doctrine is refuted The state of such in the next vvorld as by Gods omnipoteÌ„tie vvere raised to life againe An ansvver to the secoÌ„d text An ansvver to the third argument CX An ansvver to the laste scripture Cap. 9. lib. 20. de ciuit Isay. 57. Their nevv no faith is vpholden by a negatiue argument A ProtestaÌ„ts Crede Like faith like argument M. Grindall in his funerall sermon Note One sacrifice for the liue and the deade Lib. 2. de Orig. Animae Cap. 11. The coÌ„clusion of the vvhole boke vvith an admonition to the reader Math. 24. Gene. 28. Cantic 4. THE ARGVMENTES OF euery Chapter of both the Bookes Of the first Booke THe Preface vvhere in be noted tvvo sortes of heretikes the one pretending vertue the other openly professing vice And that our time is more troubled by this second sorte VVith a briefe note of the Authors principall intent in this Treatise Pref. argu pag. 10. chapter 1 That often after our sinnes be forgiuen by the sacrament of
precious stones and so escape both the fires th one of eternall punishment for the wicked and the other which shall correct them that must be saued through fire But now because we reade that he surely shall be saued therefore that fire is not much regarded And yet let them be boulde of this that though they be saued by fire it shall yet be more fearse and greeuous then any thing that man may susteine in this life though both Martyrs and malefactours haue suffered straunge torments Againe in an other place the same holy doctour vttereth the like saying VVhich I will repeate also that the world may behold the vniust dealing of the contrary part that in the booke of their excuse why they departed out of the Church they call it their Apologie be not ashamed to auouch that S. Augustine sometimes denyed and sometimes douted of Purgatory Thus he writeth then against such deceiuers and for the defence of him selfe and the Churches faith Sed si etiam sic conuersus euadat vitam viuat non moriatur non tamē promittimus quod euadet omnem poenam Nam prius purgandus est igne purgationis qui in aliud saeculum distulit fructum conuersionis Hic autem ignis etsi aeternus non sit miro tamen modo est grauis excellit enim omnem poenam quam vnquam passus est aliquis in hac vita Nunquam enim in carne inuenta est tanta poena licet mirabilia passi sunt Martyres multi nequiter iniqui tanta sustinuerunt supplicia Studeat ergo quilibet sic delicta corrigere vt post mortem non oporteat talem poenam tolerare If a sinner sayth he by his conuersion escape death and obtayne life yet for all that I can not promise him that he shall escape all paine or punishment For he that differred the fruites of repentaunce till the next life must be perfited in purgatory fire And this fire I tell you though it be not euerlasting yet it is passing greeuous for it doth fare exceede all payne that man may suffer in this life Neuer griefe in this flesh could be so great as it though Martyrs haue abiden straunge torments and the worst sort of wicked men exceeding great punishments Therefore let euery man so correct his owne faults that after his death he may escape that pitifull payne So farre S. Augustine By whom we see not onely the truth of our Catholike doctrine liuely and vehemently set forth but to the great feare of vs all the weight of Gods sentence and the payne of that vntolerable punishment a◠the Church of his time taught and beleued to passe all mortall transitory woe in the world 3 Concerning Augustine we haue answered before that as that errour of purgatory was somewhat risely budded vp in his time so he seemeth not alwaies to be cleare of it although in some places he is not so certaine of it but that he affirmeth it may be enquired of and peraduenture shall be found to be so peraduenture it shall still remayne hidde or vnknowen 4 VVhereof it hath pleased almighty God sometimes to geue man a tast by calling some one or other aboue the common rase of nature out of this mortall life and speedy restoring him from the state of the departed to the company of the liuing againe VVhich worke though it be straunge in nature thought vnlikely to misbeleuers and contemned of such as would extinguish the spirite of God yet it hath bene the vsuall practise since the beginning of our faith and religion of the holy Ghost so to trade mans frailey in faith feare of Gods Iudgements Sometymes the liuing 〈◊〉 in traunce or sudden chaunge by Gods omnipotency taken vp to the vewe as it were of the vnspeakeable treasures of the prepared ioyes or extreame calamities of the world to come So was the Apostle S. Paule he could not tell howe him selfe called to the beholding of Gods maiesty and mysteries vnspeakeable So was S. Iohn in spirite caused often to behold and presently in a maner to see not onely the affayres of Gods Church till the worldes ende but also the happy Seate of the Lambe the eternall ioy of the elect and the euerlasting lake of the damned with the infinite sorowe of all the forsaken sorte And so haue many one sith that time in the same spirite had a present taste of all those iudgements which by any meanes through the vnsercheable ordinaunce of God be prepared for sinners Sometimes also by the same force of the Spirite the departed haue appeared amongest the liue as Samuel the prophet to king Saul vttering thinges to come Or if that were not Samuel him selfe because that practise of vnlawefull artes may be thought not conuenient for the procuring of the Prophets owne persons apparition yet Moyses was in deede personnaly present with Christ in the Mounte at his transfiguration And as he at Christes cal came from the dead out of the bousom of Abraham so did Elias at the same time come from Paradise as S. Augustine affirmeth and were both conuersaunt and in talke with Christ in the sight of the Apostles at once from whense they departed at Christes appointement to their seuerall abode and rest againe VVhereupon the same holy doctour confesseth that these rare meruelous workes of God though they follow not the common order of nature yet they be neither impossible nor vnpractised in Christes Church Alij sunt sayth he limites humanarum rerum alia diuinarum signa virtutum alia sunt quae naturaliter alia quae mirabiliter fiunt The common course and limites of mans matters be of one sorte and the wonderous signes of Gods power and vertue of an other the workes that naturally be wrought are nothing like such thinges as meruailously and miraculously be done And as Christ in his owne person made many extraordinary workes to beare testimony of his diuinity so he woulde that the glory of God and faith in him should take deepe roote and large encrease through out all nations not onely by preaching and worde but by workes also which the same holy Ghost for the saluation of the beloued flocke disposeth by the eternall wisedome where when with whome and as he listeth Mary as these be the most secret wayes and vnknowen steppes of Gods spirite and therefore most humbly to be reuerenced of the faithfull so because they are so farre from the rase of naturall affaires and much ouerreach flesh and bloude they are often of fooles contemned and of the vnwise wisdome of worldlinges as extreme madnesse improued The expresse signes of Gods spirite wrought by the Sauiour of the worlde in his owne person were with singular blasphemy of the prowde Iewes referred to Beelzebub The tokens and wonders wrought by his Apostles were attributed to vnlawfull artes and misconstrued of most miscreants to false intentes It was euer a speciall note of
incredulity to blaspheme these peculiar steppes of the spirite S. Cyprian complaineth of such misbeleuers in his time that woulde not agree to the trueth after especiall reuelations had of the same VVhich kinde of men he noteth in the latter ende of an epistle by these wordes Quanquam sciam omnia ridicula visiones ineptas quibusdam videri sed vtique illis qui malunt contra sacerdotes credere quam sacerdoti Sed nihil mirum quando de Ioseph fratres sui dixerunt ecce somniator ille venit Although sayth he I know right well howe litle accompte they make of visions which they esteeme as mere trieftes But yet it is such onely that had rather beleeue against then with Gods priestes And no meruaill that is seeing good Iosephs owne brethern saide by him in mockage Lo yender comes the dreamer So did they scoffe at him because he had more familiarity with the spirite of God then the other had 4 Now followeth a large and needelesse apologie of visions and reuelations the doctrine of which is briefely and plainely set forth in the worde of God what so euer is consonant to the word of God is to be receiued that which is not agreable therewith is to be detested although not a man from purgatory but an angell from heauen were the bringer of it Then seeing the doctrine of purgatory is blasphemous against the merites of Christes death though all those fables of visions that are fayned to defende it were true stories yet are we nothing moued with them I passe ouer the impudency of this man which is not ashamed to compare so many thousand fables or illusions of Sathan as are reported to the maintaining of purgatory to the reuelation of S. Paule and the Apocalypse of S. Iohn or the appering of Moses and Elias with christ They may be in deede a great nombre of them not vnlike to that spirite of Samuell which was raised by the witche which as Augustine affirmeth and M. Allen dare not simply deny was the spirite of the Deuill him selfe 5 Now as the ioyes of heauen Paradise with the tormeÌ„t of sinners and other secrets of the next life haue bin straungly represented to some one or other in all ages by sundry meanes most expedient to our saluation and most seemely to the wisedom and will of the worker so certainely no article was euer with more force of spirite or more graue authority set forth sence the beginning of Christian religion then this one of Purgatory Neuer nation was conuerted to the faith but it had this trueth not only taught by worde but by miracle also confirmed And namely in that aboundant floode of faith when it pleased God almost at once to spreade his name amongest all these contryes it was thought most necessary to his diuine wisedome together with the true worship of his name to plant in all faithfull mens heartes the awe and necessary feare of that greeuous torment for the reuenge and iust iudgement of wicked life This greeuous payne was vttered by the very sufferers them selues as we may see in the notable histories of Paschasius and Iustus reported by S. Gregories owne mouth This greeuous punishment was agayne declared by Furseus who as the reuerent Bede reporteth had the beholding of the eternall blesse the euerlasting miâ—ery and the temporall payne of the next life Drichelmus also by the ordinaunce of God taken from amongst mortall men into the state of the next world after he had seene likewise the terrible iudgement of God practised euen vpon the elect was restored to life againe in our owne nation and was a witnesse worthy of all credit of this same truth not only by his word wherof he was so sparing all his life time after that he would not vtter this same mistery but with singular care and respect of the persons intent that asked him thereof but namely by passing great penaunce and incredible chastising of his body which proceded of the sensible knowledge that he had of the paynes prepared And being asked sometime as holy Bede sayth why he so tormented him selfe in the willing toleration of extreme heate or contrary cold both of frost and snow he made aunswere simply and shortly Frigidiora ora ego vidi austeriora ego vidi Ah maisters I haue seene colder I haue seene sharper Meaning by the vnspeakeable paines of Purgatory The whole history of his visions with many the like may be reade in the Ecclesiasticall history of our owne nation written by as faithfull a witnesse as euer was borne in our lande of such vertue that he woulde begile no man willingly of so great wisedome that he woulde report no tale nor triefle rashly of such grace and learning that he was well able to disâ—erne a false fable and superstitious illusion from a true and diuine reuelation For as it were foly and mere vanity to geue credit to euery spirite so to condemne a spirite or reuelation or any worke of Gods finger approued by the Church of God in which there hath euer bene the gifte of discerning spirites it is properly a sinne against the holy Ghost And because euery man hath not that gifte as I woulde not counsell any man ouer lightely to geue credit to euery priuat spirite and peculiar vision because they may come of wicked intentes and sinister motions so I thinke it were good in feare reuerence and humility to commit the discerning of such thinges to the spirite and iudgement of Gods Church VVith the belefe of euery peculiar mans phantasie we are not charged with humble submission of our whole life and belefe to the Church of Christ there are we especially charged And because there is nothing reported either in the workes of S. Gregory or in Bede or in Damascen or in any other the like concerning the paines either of the elect or the damned in the next life but as much hath bene vttered before by all the holy and learned fathers in great agony of minde and feare of the saide iudgement we may be the more bolde to thinke the best or rather we are bounde to thinke the best of that spirite which so conformably agreeth with the doctrine of the Church and faith of all the fathers There can no man say more of Purgatory nor more plainely then S. Ambrose being in a maner a frade him selfe of wasting away in that horrible tormeÌ„t none more effectually then S. Augustine that confesseth there is no earthely paine comparable vnto it none more fearefully then Eusebius Emissenus who termeth it skaulding waues of fire none more pithely then Paulinus that calleth those places of iudgements Ardentes tenebras burning darknesse More peculiarly may the circumstances and condicion of that state by God be reueled but the trueth thereof can not be more plainely declared nor better proued These babes feared no bugges I warraunt you neither picked they Purgatory out of Scipio his dreame