Something in ANSWER To a BOOK called Fiat LUX BEING A Discourse between a Papist and a Protestant c. who writes at the bottom of the Title Page J.V.C. ALSO Something in Answer to the Papists QUERIES London Printed in the Year 1667. Something in Answer to a BOOK CALLED FIAT LUX HE speakes in his 20th Page Of waging of War Battel and Contention like Boys and Dogs in the Streets who tear and devour one another such as are jumpt up together unheard of c. Answ Hath not this been your condition who have started up after the Apostles Or were ever the Papists heard of with all your Body of Inventions in the Apostles dayes that be like Boyes and Dogs fighting and tearing to pieces others that will not conform to your trifling Traditions and empty Ceremonies Yea and with such as follow the Apostles Doctrine and do not presume above what is written according to the Apostles Doctrine and because such cannot submit to your Rudiments which you have presumptuously set up Have you not burnt many to ashes which is far worse than Boyes and Dogs c. And whereas thou queriest in Page 29. Whether the Word of God came to you Quakers c. Or Came it to you only c. Answ The Word of God came unto us before we preached it which is the same which was among the Apostles and is the same which was yesterday to day and for ever But you Papists and Protestants and others are gone from this never changable Word as is manifest by your trifling Traditions who hold them up by carnal Weapons contrary to the Apostles and the Quakers which are spiritual And whereas thou queriest Whether the Gospel came to the Pope and Papists first We answer No. For the Gospel of Christ which is the Power of God was preached to Abraham but the fruits of you Papists and others have denyed your selves to be in this Gospel to wit the Power of God which brings Life and Immortality to Light by your dark Inventions and Traditions Persecutions and Oppressions which is not nor was not the Gospel-Practice as look among the Apostles writings in the Primitive Church and see how far you are degenerated from them And thou sayest That the Spirit the Word the Lord the Light and such like are Motives of a new Fancy Answ To the Papists and others like unto them that be out of the Spirit Light Word and the Lord and have cast him and the Apostles behind their backs and followed their own Inventions and have persecuted one another for not observing them who are in your fancies the Spirit Light Word and the Lord are new fancies to you but to us they are substance who set up and tolerate your lies by your Laws and prefer them before the Lord his Spirit Word Light and Truth which were and are the Guide of the Righteous to this day amongst whom your Inventions were never heard off before your day which all are to beware of And Them that be Hereticks thou sayest are to be checked twice or thrice and then to be avoided To which we Answer This hath not been the Papists practice to them that you suspect to be Hereticks that joyn not to your Popish wayes for you Burn and Persecute them to Death but if you had left them after you had admonished them ye had done something according to Scripture but on the contrary you shew thereby that you have no Love to Enemies no Sun to shine upon the Unjust not having the mind of Christ nor of his Apostles nor no Sons of God but of the Pharisees brood And whereas thou speakest of the Church Interpreting Scriptures How can the Papist Church Interpret Scriptures when the Jesuites have said to our faces that they have not the same spirit that the Prophets and Apostles had And seeing Christ saith The Spirit of Truth shall lead you into all Truth and the Apostle saith That no man knoweth the things of God but the Spirit of God And John saith in the Revelationss to the Churches Hear what the Spirit saith There fore the Papist Church not having the same Spirit they cannot interpret Scriptures so they are judged out of their own mouthes And the Spirit of God doth lead to hate the works of the Devil who was a lyar from the beginning and all his Children do his will and who have done his will more then the Papists yea worse than the Pharisees for they never invented so many Racks and Tortures as ye have done and burnt so many to ashes since Boneface the third the Universal Pope set up by Phocus the Emperour And so ye that scoffe at the Light c. not having the same Spirit and Power as the Apostles had you 'l Rack and Torture and Imprison and Burn to ashes your Friends for how can ye discern them not having the same Spirit the Apostles had We think you Papists Protestants Presbyterians Independants and Baptists might agree for they confess the same that you do viz. That they have not the same Spirit the Apostles had then ye have another for there is but two Spirits and it 's much ye should make such a noise one against another and cannot agree But your Inventions are old and theirs are new and both things in Gain to you which maintains your Lusts and that raiseth your war one against another which they that are in the Spirit the Apostles were in see over you all and they that be in the Spirit have both Visions and Prophesies and by it hath Miracles been wrought which some of your Generation hath said as the Pharisees did to Christ That they were wrought by the power of the Devil And whereas thou sayest Page 51. The Roman Catholicks brought the news of Christ and Christianity into the Land first Answ We say No. Christ and Christianity was brought into this Land of England by Joseph of Arimathea and twelve Disciples sent by Philip the Apostle above 70 years after Christ which was many hundred years before there was any Universal Pope and many years before any Mass was set up And whereas thou speakest in Page 53 of such as say of Christ Loe he 's here Loe he 's there We Answer This is just your own condition for do you not make a Christ of Bread which you call your God and lift him up and when you have eaten up one you make another lift him up and carry him about streets crying The Hoast and call it the Sacrament of the Altar and when you have eaten him up also do you not make another and cry Loe here loe there is Christ But the Quakers when they have received Christ preach him as the Aposties did when the Son of God is revealed in them c. And Jobs words now adayes are not so easie to answer as thou thinkest for why have not you Papists answered all the Quakers Queries that have been put to you Thou mayest say We want Queen Mary
and Bishop Bonner who answered by Fire and Faggot to the destruction of the Righteous for that hath been your way of answering but this hath never been the work of the Church of Christ nor of godly Rulers as thou speakest of And whereas thou sayest in Page 93. The Holy Church hath alwayes in all Ages forbidden her Children to Dispute the Principles of Religion in the sence they had received them Answ This is the Papists Church not the Holy Church and its Principles and it is false as to the Holy Church they were to be ready to give an account to every man of the Hope that is in them with meekness and fear which Hope is Christ And the Apostle declared plainly when brought before the Magistrates how Christ appeared to him and how he was sent to Preach And the true Church was to contend for the Faith which was delivered to the Saints and they were to speak in the same sence of Faith which they had received For the Apostles said They were to warn every man that they might present every man perfect in Christ Jesus And so it 's plain that the Apostles and the Prophets spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost in the sence of what they received And whereas thou sayest That all Christians are to acknowledge a new Pope c. To which we Answer No. The Christians that now are as also in the Primitive times are Brethren and it is not among them as it was amongst the Apostates which are as the Gentiles who exercise Lordship one over another and those that do so are by you and them called Gracious Lords But Christ saith It shall not be so amongst you meaning his Disciples for ye are Brethren and ye have but one Master even Christ And as the Apostle saith In the world there are many Lords but to us there is but one even the Lord Jesus Christ who is Head of the Church Yea Head of that Church which the Saints upon the Earth then and which we now are Members of who is our Head the same to day yesterday and for ever though he is not so to the Papists And whereas thou speakest That by reason of the great obscurity of things we are led into so many differences Answ What is the reason indeed you with others are so dark and obscure that you are not in the same Spirit and Power that the Apostles were in and being out of it you go into so many Sects and Divisions And whereas thou speakest Of learning the Foundation upon which Faith is built To which we Answer Your works and others do testifie that you have forsaken both Foundation good Conscience and Faith that works by Love for the Historical or dead Faith works by hatred and the foundation of that is the Adversary the Devil And whereas thou speakest In England of some that pretend to a new Light To which we Answer That Christ is the Light who is the new and living Way It 's indeed a new way to you who are apostatized from the Light which the Apostles were in and the Life and Spirit the fruits whereof are Love c. But ye have manifested another spirit and fruits As remember the Burning in Smithfield and Cruelties in other parts as the Massacre in Ireland and other parts of the world your putting to death for your Religion which the Apostles did not for their Religion which Light of Christ was their Light which is now sprung up in England is become a new Light unto you who are workers of Darkness And whereas thou sayest The Quakers words are jumbled together so that every Line hath no sence in it and thou resemblest them to the Turks Alkaron To which we answer To you the Prophets Apostles and Christs words are not sense for if they were then what need you thrust all these words of small Letters into the Books of the Old and New Testament called the Itallick Letter signifying that they are no more sence to you than the Quakers Books who make an addition to them Therefore we do not strange at thy saying That our Writings are nonsence but we can say to you as Solomon saith That our words are all plain to him that is of Understanding And as for the Turkish Alkaron Whose Writings are nearer unto them than the Papists are Set all your old Images aside which you have neither out of the Old Testament nor of the New but from your own dreaming conceit that you speak of And whereas thou speakest Of the Presbyterian falling out with the Protestant and calling him a Fanatick the Catholick coming by and seeing them doth hope that they may come to their Goods again c. A. You want power to set up your Fire and Fagots again and you long after your Tythes and great Monastries and Gleab Land c. For if you had minded the good of Peoples souls why would so many thousands of you have turned from your Religion as your Priests and others in Queen Elizabeths dayes did And as for Fanatick-wrath fury rage and madness who hath manifested this spirit since the Apostles dayes more then you yea upon such as have professed the Name of Christ And while you and other Sects are falling out Truth will arise over all your heads as it was in England and other parts before the Pope and his Mass-Book or you Papists were And as for Catholick your actions and fruits have declared and testified against you to deny the Catholick Faith that works by Love and the Catholick Gospel and the Catholick Church with its Catholick Head And the Quakers have to war in the Spirit of God with you and also with all such as are in your Dreggs and be out of the same Spirit that the Prophets and Apostles were in And to the Querie in Page 188. We Answer That neither Protestants nor you have lived in Vnity these several hundred years for you have laid more stumbling blocks to hinder the spreading of Christianity then ever did Jezabel by Baals Priests And as for telling you of several hundred years it was above 600 years after Christ before any Universal Bishop got up And then the Turk got up after the Pope and he got from him near as much as all Christendom and then did not he lose Germany England Ireland Scotland Denmark Sweden and the Low-Coutries yea and Egypt Jerusalem and other parts that way and part of France and yet will not the Pope tell us that he is Head of the Church and that the Gates of Hell shall not prevaile against him And what strivings were there in Italy and Spain and other places before you set up your Inquisitions about the time of the Council of Trent And as for your Vaity let us tell you if you have forgotten Did the Waldenses ever joyn to you after the Pope got up Nay did not they gall him more then all and did not he send a Prince to destroy them and did not the
Lord turn him back again empty Read the Council of Trent And whether or no do the Churches of the Corinthians Philippians and Thessalonians joyn to the Pope or why hath the Pope made so many Orders to preserve the Unity by his Inquisitions And whereas thou Queriest How came the Bible into England was it not brought up hither at the Lands Conversion by the Romans Answ We say again That many Christians came over into England and preached the Gospel many hundred years before any Universal Pope was and dost thou think that there were no Books nor Epistles brought over before Boniface the Pope was whose time was 600 years after Christ when that Joseph of Arimathea with twelve more as hath been said came over within seventy years after Christ And whereas thou marvellest Of the many wayes of Rebellion in England not reconciled yet have not all this while appealed to the King as Supream Head of the Church and you have secretly murmured against Queen Elizabeth and King James Answ We know it and also against the King now its like you are murmuring as against King James is sufficiently known to this day and against Elizabeth too Do you not remember what striving there was in many parts of the Nation but what 's this you are troubled because the Pope is not Head It seems the Gates of Hell hath prevailed against your Church and if so a Lye is found in your right hand and you not to be the true Church according to yōur own Doctrine for proof whereof you may look about you in Turkey and Egypt and Jerusalem and all over Europe And whereas thou sayest The Pope easily managed the Peoples Consciences and kept them in order and peaceableness and thou sayest the Reason is because of the multitude of People about him and Priests who shine like Stars And thou sayest The Popes for the most part are very good yet it may happen that some of them are no better than they should be Answ Here the Clamourous Woman pluck's down her own house for how often have you written and told People that the Popes are Infallible and could not erre And as for the Pope and his Priests shining like Starrs and keeping the People in peace Your own Council of Trent manifests that sufficiently and also in other parts of the World you may read your Order But the Pope would be in the Throne of God and be Lord of the Consciences of People and have power over mens Faith contrary to the Apostles who had not power over any mans Faith And as for shining like Stars in the firmament you have wandred up and down till you have darkened the Air as Jude speakes But the Everlasting Gospel is again preached which shineth over you all And whereas thou sayest That none of your Ecclesiastical benefits were given by Princes and People to maintain Wife and Children but onely for such as were single and had consecrated themselves c. Answ Is it not better to Marry then to be called Concubinary Priests as you were called in the Council of Trent And did not your Benefits maintain the Poor aswell as the Priests And how long after Christ was it before Priests were forbidden to Marry Nay did not some of your own Popes allow Priests to Marry and afterwards denied it again Truly a man had need have a great deal of patience to read your Popes Lives and Lawes and Decrees and Councils they are so full of confusions and contradictions though stiled Unerring and Infallible they have wholly erred from the Apostles and the Scriptures of Truth And whereas you say You kneel at your Communion and you drew a compendious Common Prayer and you keep up the Pulpits for Catholicks who built them Answ Of these things you and others have made a Trade of and in though none of all these things you find among the Apostles The Scripture saith They sate when they received the Supper And whereas thou comparest the Quakers to Ishmael whose hand is against every man Answ This is your own condition as your actions declare tho you can flatter secretly for your own advantage have you not destroyed Protestants of all sorts to make them to bend to your Rudiments But the Quakers have an Universal Love to all mankind and are of the Faith of Abraham that works by Love and desire the everlasting good of all mankind of the Turk and Pope too as they are Men if they should come to our Houses and want Bread or Drink we can freely give them some but as for their Religion and wayes we deny And why dost thou contradict one of thy fellows sayings to us the Infallibility of the real Presence which said The Consecrated would wear away as the Unconsecrated And Page 196. thou sayest Why doth not the Bishop of Canterbury Summon a Council to end the Differences about Religion Answ Here thou seemest to be a lover of Peace and Concord but it is not the Bishop of Canterbury but it is the Popes Authority that thou wouldest have up as in the former Page where thou speakest of Benefits and of Single Life and of you Catholicks to come to your right again whilst others are fighting thou wouldest set them together to hasten the end but the Serpent is seen in his hole and out of it And whereas thou mentionest four Sects viz. Independants Presbyterians Anabaptists and Quakers of their disturbing the Peace thou mightest have left out the Quakers and taken the rest to your selves and been the head of them for who hath disturbed the Peace of all Nations more then ye have done Ye may truly take the right hand of Fellowship there And whereas in Page 201. thou sayest They are all Infallible and will not be moved so much as to moderation A. Thou mightest very well have kept in this and have read the Council of Trent of the Pope who said He would fire all the world but he would make them obey him And read in the Pagents of Popes there thou mayest see that your Popes which you say cannot erre are more like Beasts than Men And so your Immoderation and fallibility and erring spirit hath manifested it self sufficiently in Europe And we who are called Quakers do seek the peace of all men whose Weapons are Spiritual and not Carnal like yours who have degenerated from the Apostles And whereas thou sayest The Reformers cut off and slashed the Antient Faith Answ Ye are out of that Faith that works by Love which is the Antient Faith and out of the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles and have slasht and cut those that be in it For where doth he bid you run to Graves for Reliques and set up Images and dress your Popes more like to Stage-players than Peter for Peter and the Apostles had none of these Titles given unto them as the Pope hath taken unto himself but such things were forbidden by Christ and he hath exalted himself above his brethren but God