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A35717 Truth-triumphant in a dialogue between a Papist and a Quaker : wherein (I suppose) is made manifest, that quaking is the off-spring of popery : at least, the Papist and the Quaker, are (fratres uterini) both of one venter. Derby, Charles Stanley, Earl of, 1628-1672. 1671 (1671) Wing D1090B; ESTC R16515 10,629 18

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had not bowed to him nor Kissed him being as invisible as to outward prosperity as those 7000. in the days of Elias But when the time came for the appearance of those glorious Reformers of Religion and manners according to Gods appointment for to this God alone as it is in the Acts of the Holy Apostles Cap. 1. Ver. 7. The Times and the Seasons the Father hath put into his own Hands then did that wicked one this Roman Baal begin to be revealed whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his Mouth and abolish with the brightness of his coming Ver. 8. The 9. Ver. is applicable to your Baal in your false Miracles Signs and Lying wonders whereby you lie in wait to deceive the Ignorant and simple This person must be consumed and abolished even him as it is Ver. 9. whose coming is by the effectual working of Satan with all Power the Inquisition and their visible pretended infallibility and Signs and lying Wonders And God knows with such Signs and lying Wonders false Miracles c. Your Church is sufficiently fraught Ver. 11. is the consequence of the former recited Verses 8 9 and therefore God shall send them strong delusions that they shall believe Lies and this is verified every day that many among You otherwise Learned and wise enough do give themselves up to these strong delusions giving as great credit to your Legends as the Fables of one Winifred c. as to the Gospel it self I could add upon this Subject but I suppose what I have already said is sufficient to evidence unto you the Errors of Your ways and the Truth of Ours Papist I confess I am very much shaken by your Arguments and the next time we meet you may possibly obtain an entire Conquest over me Protest I am very glad it is come to this which is a kind of new Creation in us God having thus produced Light out of Darkness You having thus contrary to your intent sent me into the Bosome of the Church of England whereinto I hope you will likewise throw your self whereby we shall not be half but whole Brothers having one Father which is God one Mother the Church of England Jesus Christ the Saviour of the World being our Elder Brother In this confidence I dare call you Brother and Dear Brother fare you well for this time The CONCLUSION THe Dialogue thus finished I think it not amiss to say something concerning the first General Council that ever was in the Church of Christ you have the whole Story of it in the 15 Chap. of the Acts of the Holy Apostles I shall take notice that it was not called by the particular direction of any of the Apostles but that all of them did concur thereunto and this was doubtless the Method of the Christian Church during it's greatest Purity and Integrity and the truth is no other way could be used while the Church of Christ was under Persecution but in process of time when supreme powers did receive and protect the Christian Faith and that as the Scripture saith Kings and Queens were Nursing Fathers and Nursing Mothers of the Spouse of Christ then were general Councils summon'd by them and by them were these Councils left to their free Debates and determinations whose Decrees were afterwards confirm'd by the Supreme Authorities whereby those Decrees which before such a Confirmation did only oblige the Conscience had then the Coercive Power of the State to compell their Observation and this Method did continue till the Usurpation of the Bishop of Rome upon all Powers both Civil and Ecclesiastical for he now takes upon him to assume unto himself the power of calling Councils of presiding in them and Confirming their Decrees saying that without His Confirmation they are invalid Thus does he make his own Will to be of more Authority than a General Council and this same Will of his to be Superior to all Supreme Powers and Authorities whatsoever But I shall add no more upon this Subject but proceed to what I at first proposed in the beginning hereof where I shall take notice of some things in the 15 th Chap. of the Acts of the Holy Apostles where we reade of the first General Council that ever was in the Church of Christ and therefore most likely to be a direction for all others It was occasioned by an Appeal made by some Converte● Gentiles to this General Council for some Pharisaical Christians would impose upon these Converted Gentiles the whole Law of Moses therefore to this General Council they do appeal the words of the Council are these Ver. 23. of this 15. Chap. The Apostles and Elders and Brethren send Greeting unto the Brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia 24. Forasmuch as We have heard that certain which went out from Us have troubled You with Words subverting Your Souls saying Ye must be Circumcised and keep the Law to whom We gave no such Commandment 25. It seemed good unto Us being Assembled with one accord to send chosen Men unto You with Our beloved Barnabas and Paul 26. Men that have hazarded their Lives for the Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ 27. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas who shall also tell you the same things by word of mouth 28. For it seemed good to the Holy-Ghost and to Us to lay upon You no greater Burthen than these necessary things 29. That Ye abstain from Meats offered to Idols and from Blood and from things Strangled and from Fornication from which if ye keep your selves ye shall do well fare ye well These be the words together We shall now take them into parts The Apostles and Elders and Brethren There is no Primacy in St. Peter or in any body else either first as to calling this Council or Secondly In degree it self or Thirdly by way of Confirming this Decree of the Council Apostles Elders and Brethren are all alike concerned Send Greeting unto the Brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch Syria and Cilicia Now here I cannot but take notice that the Church of Jerusalem treats the Churches of Antioch c. not with a Maternal but a Fraternal Appellation not like the Church of Rome certainly if ever any had been the Mother-Church it must have been that of Jerusalem St. Peter and all the rest of the Apostles yea even a General Council there residing which makes her self the Mother-Church and all others she will have to be esteemed but Her Children and yet in this General Council St. Peter was present as appears by the 7. Verse of this 15. Chap. and yet St. Peter does not pronounce any Judgment contenting himself rather with relating matter of Fact and Paul and Barnabas do the same as it is Ver. 11. But the Apostle St. James proceeds further in Ver. 13 14 15 16 17 18. and in the 19. Ver. is very bold saying Wherefore my sentence is that we trouble not them which from among the Gentiles are turned to God and Ver. 20. He proceeds But that we here St. James is equal with St. Peter or any of the rest write unto them that they abstain from pollutions of Idols and from Fornication and from things strangled and from Blood And to this Sentence of St. James the whole Council acquiesces not any one speaking after St. James Forasmuch as certain which went out from Us have troubled you with words subverting your Souls saying Ye must be Circumcised and keep the Law to whom We not St. Peter alone gave no such Commandment it seemed good unto Us being assembled with one accord This Council you see was not called by St. Peter alone to send chosen men unto You with our beloved Barnabas and Paul Men that have hazarded their Lives for the Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ We have sent therefore Judas and Silas who shall also tell you the same things by word of Mouth for it seemed good to the Holy-Ghost and to Us you see the Holy-Ghost is not tyed to St. Peter's or the Pope's Chair nor the Colledg of Cardinals but remaining with the General Council To lay upon you no heavier burthen than these necessary things that ye abstain from Meats offer'd to Idols from Blood and from things strangled and from Fornication all this the Sentence of and Opinion of St. James delivered to the Council and thus approved of by the Council from which if ye keep your selves ye shall do well fare ye well I have thus run over the words of this first General Council with some few Animadversions thereon and if therein I have done the Church of Christ any Service I have my aim and do retun unto him all Honour and Glory for His assistance herein by whom I have been hereunto enabled To the Holy Trinity Father Son and Holy-Ghost be all Honour and Glory now and for ever Amen FINIS
confess they were Prot. Then hereafter tell us no more of our Common-Prayer being taken out of the Mass and now we are speaking of the Jews let me tell you that you make use of the same Arguments to oppose us that the Jews did to oppose our Saviour they urged to our Saviour That he was an Innovator and that he opposed the Traditions of their Church which say they had continued from the establishment of it by God in Moses's time This method you observe against us calling us Innovators who are the chiefest opposers of Innovation for our Churches endeavour is to cast off what you have Innovated in Christian Religion Let me ask you one Question Do not you believe all that the Church of England believes Papist We do but we believe more Prot. Then let me tell you whatsoever in more are Romes Superstructures and Innovations and ought to be rejected of all true Christians Papist I doubt I have kill'd the wrong man for I doubted not from a Quaker to have made you one of us but instead of that I have made you a Protestant and for ought I know I may chance to be one too But I will not quit the Field yet but have more discourse with you Protest With all my heart for me-thinks the more I discourse with you the more I am enabled above my capacity which 〈◊〉 must attribute to Gods good 〈…〉 who enables me a wea●…●●●rument of his to defend 〈◊〉 Truth Papist I●… 〈◊〉 be the Truth I wish it may appear so in the mean time I shall proceed thus Your Religion was never heard of before ●●●her s time Protest Is not that Argument worn thread-bare yet But seeing you insist upon it I shall repeat unto you for answer the words of a Learned Man out of his Epistle Dedicatory to His present Majesty the words as I remember are these Since that great Miracle of Divine Providence in your Majestie 's Stilling fleet most happy Restauration we have seen those who before triumphed over the Church of England as dead as much expressing their envy at Her resurrection Neither could it otherwise be expected but that so sudden a recovery of Her former Lustre would open the mouths of Her weak but contentious Adversaries who see Her shine in a Firmament so much above them But it is a part of Her present Felicity that they are ashamed of the insulting Question What is become of your Church now and are driven back to their old impertinency Where was your Church before Luther They might as well alter the Date of it and ask where She was before your Majesties Restauration For as She only suffered an Eclipse in the late Confusions no more did She though of a longer stay in the times before the Reformation and it was Her great Honour that She was not awakened out of it as of old they fancied by beating of Drums or the rude Clamours of the People but as She gradually regained Her Light so was it with the Influence of Supreme Authority which has caused so close an Union and Combination of Interests between them that the Church of England and the Royal Family have like Hippocrates his Twins both wept and rejoyced together And nothing doth more argue the excellent constitution of our Church than that wherein the purity of Christian Doctrine is joyned with the most hearty acknowledgment of your Majestie 's Power and Supremacy Thus far that learned Author I shall add further That if a Church Eclipsed or unseen shall be the destruction of it or that there was ever any such thing I would very fain know where the Church of God was when it was said the whole World was turn'd Arrian and before our Saviour came into the world how often was the Church of God invisible and the Worship or Religion appointed utterly overthrown by Idolaters Such as the Church of God was in those days the same our Church was before the Reformation and where the one was there was the other in Dens and Caves and in the hearts of good and Religious Men where God did receive an acceptable Sacrifice We see in the 19 Chap. of the first Book of the Kings verse 10. how 1 Kings Cap. 19. Ver. 10. invisible the Church of God was by the expression of the Prophet Elias there I have been very jealous for the Lord God of Hosts for the Children of Israel have forsaken thy Covenant broken down thine Altar and ●●●in thy Prophets with the sword and I only am left and they seek 〈…〉 to take it away These were the words of a true Prophet of the Lord to whom the Church of God was so invisible to him though often a fore-seer and fore-teller of future contingencies that he conceives himself to be the only Servant of the Lord left upon the face of the Earth yet in the Eighteen●h verse of the fore-mentioned Chap. God tells the Prophet Of Seven Thousand Men in Israel remaining even all the Knees that have not bowed unto Baal and every Mouth that hath not kist him Thus you see before Luther's time notwithstanding their invisibility according to this of the Prophet God might and no doubt had thousands of true believers which had not bowed their knees to your Baal of Rome and whose Mouths had never kist him and no doubt the Simile is very pat between this Baal of Jezabel's in the Book of the Kings and your Baal i. e. the Pope of Rome for as this Baal of Jezabel was to be bowed unto and Kissed so is your Baal or Pope of Rome likewise to be bowed unto and Kissed not his Face but his Toe even by Emperors and Our Saviour did suffer himself to be kissed on the Face to witness Judas's betraying this Saviour of the World with a kiss Kings as well as by the meanest of his Worshippers and Abettors and thus according to the Apostle St. Paul in the second to the Thessalonians Cap. 2. Ver. 4. He is an Adversary to our Saviour and his Holy Religion and exhalteth himself above and against all that is called God or that is Worshipped so that He doth sit as God in the Temple of God shewing himself that He is God And this truth is yet more confirm'd even by your selves by whom this Pope is called Dominus Deus noster Papa and to this Pope in your ordinary discourse either to him or of him you attribute a Title only due to God which is His Holiness There be three other Texts in this same Chapter that may very well be applyed to your Baal or Pope Ver. 8 9 11. And then shall that wicked be revealed whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his Mouth and shall abolish with the brightness of his coming as it is Ver. the 8th For during the darkness of Superstition and Popery the times preceding before Luther Calvin and others this Baal was Worshipped without controul or visible gainsaying the true Worshippers those 7000. that