of qua distinct from the Aopstles Eph. 4.11 How sad a thing is it to see a Doctor so deceived are all the rest spoken of as distinct and doth he dream this is not see then if the Apostle hath in any other Scripture distinguished them if he seeth it not heer 1 Cor. 12.28 God hath placed in the Church first Apostles 2. Prophets see if God hath not distinguished them by a first and second This man would have confounded the Church Ministry mâ—king of two one with the men of his mind it is nothing to make all one 4. He tels us by foundation was not ment the Apostles but their Doctrine I having cited the text Eph. 2.20 this is clear enough expressed that it is the foundation of the Apostles not that the Apostles as the Papists say of Peter are the foundations of the Church there was no foundation for the Doctor to make this learned exception P. 5. Dr. The Church of the Gospel is built on the truths delivered by the old Prophets as is clear by Acts 26.22 Luke 24.27 2 Pet. 1.19 Resp To me it is much to see so grave a man fight with his own shadow for in this he hath not hit me at all I granted this in my Book which might wel have saved him his learned labour Dr. But the Prophets subordinate to the Apostles were no more founders to the Church then the Evangelists Resp For men of reputed learning and esteeme I see it is nothing to say any thing though never so clear against the truth Eph. 2.20 we are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets I provoke you Mr Doctor to shew where it is said that we are built upon the Evangelists Dr. Titus was no where called Evangelist was he therefore none Resp Mr. Doctor How shall I believe he was if the Scripture say not of him he was one I am sure you have no Gospel makes him such that ever he wrote unlesse it be one lately brought from Rome Dr. What need Marke and Luke be called Evangelists seeing their worke doth speake them such Resp You may easily see Mr. Doctor is good at the begging of the question and passing by the matter objected viz. That the Evangelists office 2 Tim. 4 5. is a ministeriall Church worke and not a writing work as I have proved at large in my Letters sent to the Assembly and printed but not Answered because you have not leisure as in your Letters formerly you say concerning this Book Dr. The worke of an Evangalist is not only to Preach but to order matters by Apostolical direction Tit. 1.5 Resp 1. This then shewes your Evangelist was no extraordinary officer in the Church for what he did he did by direction as you and I should do in the Church were we faithful and no otherwise 2. In my forme of Gospel Government for Gospel Churches and in this book you so sift to find chaffe in I have allowed as well Government as Teaching to the Church Ministry according to Jesus Christ and you prove no more for Titus is not for this worke here or any where called Evangelist nor were any where else for that particular act Dr. Is not the writing the history of Christ's life the worke of an Evangelist and if Marke and Luke did this why should they not be called Evangelists Resp An risum teneatis amiei Mr Doctor if they did this why yet should they be called Evangelists unlesse you can canonise them for such by authority of the Presbytery that now is Doctor And is not the work extraordinary was it not indited and directed by the Spirit in Mark and Luke as well as in Mathew and John Resp M. Doctor When you wrot notes on my Book and had it communicated in that disgracefull way as this was I thought you had not vented your self into such like Quries as these 2. A man would have thought your reading would have taught you to distinguish between an Apostle and an Evangilist 3. I thought my former letter to you of this point would have made you blot out this dul notion seeing the Gospel you so much talk of Luke 1. was by him but a setting in order things believed amongst us as himself saith and not inspired into him ver 2. As they delivered them to us And here M. Doctor Who were these but Mark and Luke and then by whom but by eie witnsses which were it is likely Matthew and John with the rest of the Apostles and it may be said of the seventy of which Mark and Luke were not but had it from them that were as is plain and clear to him that is not blinded Doctor And is not the hystory of Christ a fundamentall truth of the Gospel Resp And M. Doctor The Amanuenses of many of the Psalms thâ— Prophets the Epistle of the Romans Tertius Rom. 16.22 were not made there by Evangelists yet are their writings not authoritative they being dictated to by the Apostles and Prophets P. 6. Dr. Rom. 10.15 From Esay 52.7 Is not to be understood of the distinct office of the Evangelist as he differs from the Apostle Prophet Pastor and Teacher but to Evangelize there doth comprehend all the testimony of Jesus in all respects but especially of the Apostles worke and if this be so then from the generall denomination of Evangelizing the distinct office of the Evangelist can be no more proved to be ordinary then from the generall name of Messengers 2 Cor. 8.23 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that the Apostolical Office is ordinary as Preachers are in some sense Evangelists viz. in respect of the glad tydings that they preach Resp That Evangelizing was applyed to the whole Gospel ministry I granted and thence proved that it was an ordinary Office in the Church yet to teach and apply peace with the good things of the Gospel to the strong men in Christ onely was the proper worke of the Church Evangelist to which Paul applieth that of 1 Cor. 1.17 he distinguishing the Teachers Ministry under the act of Baptizing who taught also and the Evangelists Ministry which Paul in Corinth as an ordinary Minister officiated with other his fellow helpers 2. For your parallel place 2 Cor. 8.23 I would you would take your Bible and see how God distinguished these Apostles from the others 1 Cor. 1.1 Eph. 1.1 Collos 1.1 Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ the Apostles 2 Cor. 8.23 are Apostles of the Churches Sir I may say to you of this as Christ to the blind Pharisees ye errre not knowing the Scriptures so that this Scripture proves not any hinderance to my conclusion as you seem to affirme but that thence it appears because the name is given in common to the ordinary Ministry it was but an ordinary office in the Church which oft as Pastors and Teachers to remaine therein to the end Dr. That Timothy and Titus were imployed only about one place is so directly opposite to Scripture that nothing can
be more and it was aproperty of the Evangelists office as distinct from the rest and extraordinary to be fixed to no place but to be fellow helpers to the Apostles 2 Cor. 8.23 Resp 1. Reader see how willing the Doctor is to catch at flies and observe the thing he quarrels at is no saying of mine but Chrysostomes on Eph. 4.11 qui occupabantur circa unum duntaxat locum ut Timotheus ac Titus he speaking before of Evangelists 2. For his Scripture being more to be looked after then his arguments 2 Cor. 8.23 Titus is Pauls fâ—llow-helper here he is not called an Evangelist nor was he but Pastor or Teacher in the Church with him onely 2 Tim. 4.5 Paul being to die bid him do the worke of an evangelist and before that time with Paul he never did it Paul in fellowship did that worke P. 7. Dr. Rule of the Schools is true quod Theologia Symbolica est argumenâ—â—tiva Resp Sir I despise not Learning nor the Schooles but the too much tying of men to the Rules of Schooles took away all knowledge and made men fooles heretofore I thinke no Scripture but is argumentive unlesse by the Scripture you overthrow my argument this is a fine way of Answering objections approved in the Schools but not in the Church P. 8. Dr. John's Ministry was medium quid inter legem Evangelium and made both one in that which was substanciall unto both Resp I approve of your learned distinction well which was in my Book made thus to your hand in English that he was not of Moses Ministry Mat. 11.13 nor of Kingdome Ministry ver 11. 2. But that he made both 〈◊〉 that is the Ministry of both one is a thing found out by long study in the Assembly who have found a way to make one two and two one as the Doctor in the Church and the Doctâ—r in the University to be meant in Epb. 4.11 as in your Propositions or for what end is it set there but to blind the world Dr. This is a silly weak Criticisme and there is more inferred upon it then it wil bear 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differ only in modâ— the same word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it is publiquely declared in the name of God it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and as it is declared to men that are ignorant thereof it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is therefore no ground for a different administration for he that in respect of God is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in respect of men is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Resp 1. Sir If I did criticie it was not wilfully and so it may well be weakly but you do it over and over I do not tell you it is sillily done sure I am you have overdone it I am loath to shew you least you should be ashamed at it 2 Tim. 1.11 Paul is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here lest you criticks of the Assembly should make the ministry without the Church and that within the Church one he puts the Apostle between to keep them asunder and prove them too 2. Here in respect of God he is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is false Doctrine Mr Doctor the Apostle saith as Preacher and Teacher he was both in respect of his ministry to men onely and that in differing wayes of ministry the one before the Church ministry which began in the Apostles and ended in the Teachers so that my silly weak Criticism hath the strength of a Gospel truth in it and seemes to beat down your Antichristian Church administration Dr. The arguments which are taken from the order of words and names are of no force except the Scripture adde some Characteristicall note thereunto to expresse that it doth intend the order should be observed as in Eph. 4.11 it doth adde onely a note of distinction but in the 1 Cor. 12.28 it adds a note of order first second third and now Pastors and Teachers are not expressely distingished and from the other as the Apostles Prophets and the Evangelists are and whereas Eph. 4.11 Pastors are named before Teachers 1 Cor. 12.28 only Teachers are named and Evangelists and Pastors are not at all so that in the order of words there can be no great matter to ground such an inference upon Resp Mr Doctor you know my means is short so that I cannot be as large to satisfie the world or you as I would but thus briefly thus before you perverted the Scripture now you seek to take away the glory of it Sir the word is divine not only materialiter but 〈◊〉 formaliter and yet you dare say arguments are not to be taken from the order of words and then come to set Ephesians and Corinths one to oppose the other when indeed they both oppose you shewing you none but Apostles are of the first ranke and so are distinct from Prophets of the second for the third they are all Teachers among which the Evangelist is one with the Pastor and Teacher of which one is not more extraordinary then the other Sir pray see my Letters to the Assembly these are both at large and satisfactorily laid down in them 2. You observe the Pastors and Teachers are not distinguished by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Evangelists and Pastors yet you and the grossest Papists allow of Pastors and Teachers not distinguished but confound Evangelists that are is this of God in your Assembly P. 9. Now for an insertion laid downe in my Book that the Ministry without the Church is to be continued stil to prepare for the Church ministry Mr Doctor saith this consequence is so very weake that it deserveth no answer and the ground of it is taken away by what hath been said before Resp Mr Doctor hath quickly done with the businesse but I cannot but wonder that wise men should dally with the truth and deceive the world That Scripture 2 Tim. 1.11 will one day rise in judgement against some men of these dayes I pray look unto it well you that are concerned in it Dr. If a calling of men fitly qualified and setting them apart according to the word maketh men ministers then we have a ministry but the antecedent is true Ergo the Conseâ—ence Resp I denie your major first that your calling is not according to the word nor are you set a part according to the word nor are you members of a true visible constituted Church and so cannot be in that kind fitly qualified but of this pray see my book called The mistery of the Ministry Dr. Also the office of a Pastor and Teacher is undoubtedly ordinary and by his owne confâ—ssion it presupposeth a Church in which it is exercised hath not the Church continued ever since the Apostles Resp I would you would learn to confesse the truth also as I do but Sir though I confesse they are ordinary Teachers yet I confesse not
estate of Saints only Mr Doctor methinks this should clear your eies of your confused Antichristian way teaching if you teach the Gospel estate of an Evangelized Saint your unregenerate Church-members are never the better ipse dixit how shall they believe them Here as in a glasse ye may see the ground of your unprofitable teaching yet let Christ say what he will you will teach so P. 29. 2 Tim. 4.5 Doe the work of an Evangelist Dr. The place of Timothy is perverted and rack'd beyond the Apostles puâ—â—â—se for the Apostles meaning is not to signifie anâ— such thing as is here inserted but only that Timothy by being sober and watchfull and painful in the work of the Gospel should give unto all a ful assurance of the truth of the Gospel whereof he was a minister 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is here required is the same whereof the Apostle speakes after vers 17. where he saiâ—h that Gods assistance of him in his suffeâ—ings made the preaching fully known and gave to all an assurance of the truth thereof so then to make a ful proof of the miâ—istry is nothing else but to approve ones self to the conscience of all by a true and faithful carriage of oneâ— selâ— in the charge You do here as in all other places almâ—st you take hold of a word and run away with it to apply it to your fancy and draw consequences from it and never look to the Apostles scope Resp 1. Your beginnings and endings oft times are like you cry out of racking Scriptures let the Reader judge of whom the Scripture cry out of racking most you or me and who perverts them most all that you say is meant in the Scripture every word but not any such thing as I affirme ideots that cannot try you must trust you but men of judgement and understanding wil the sooner mistrust you Sir you are as errour wrapt up in truth's Cloak let that be once taken from you and you will cozen no man more 2. The maine thing in the text is that Paul bids him do the worke of an Evangelist which before he had not done in his former Ministry if he had why doth Paul give him a charge to do it now and then backs it with this of make full proof of the ministry or bear the ful ministry now you leave out and say not a word of that which contained the mattter it self and run to a story very impertinent to the thing in hand 3. But that the Reader may understand you the better the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 relates to the Evangelical office here in this verse and that in verse 17. hath respect to verse 6 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which shewes with that ver 17. that he had done by his Ministry what God had ordained in this world for him to do and no otherwaies applying to Numb 8.24 this is that belongs to the Levites from 25 years old and upward It is they shall enter into the Militia quasi bellatores in service c. Sir I have heard it reported that you had that honour to be chosen the man to reconcile Lutherans and Protestants If so sure you will never have the honour to bring the Presbytery to the Gospel Government which would be greater honour by far unto you P. 30. Heb. 6.1 The Evangelists office is higest and distinct from the Doctors Dr. The Apostle doth indeed distinguish between the fundamental doctrine and the doctrine of perfection shewing that he would speak of matters which did require more higher capacity and greater attention then these first principles did stand inâ—eed of he speaks of the difference of things to be taught Resp Thus far Mr. Doctor is forced to confesse and assigne to truth there is a necessity it s so plaine every eye may see it Dr. But now of different offices and officers of Teachers Resp What not Pastors and Teachers if no Evangelists Mr Doctor you will thus overthrow your Presbyterian building Dr. For he speakes of himself as Teacher of both only that in respect of time and different capacities the fundamentals were to be taught first and the superstructures afterward Resp If you observe Mr Doctor well he is almost come home the Apostle as an extraordinary officer may do all the parts of the Ministry but in doing them he did observe time and the Capacities of the peoâ—le that is in the infancy of Christians he taught as a Docâ—â—r giving milke and when to be of stronger capacitie to give them stronger meat tâ—e fundâ—mentals â—n order being to be taught first and the superstructures afte ward O that M. Doctor would or could shew us this Gospel way in practise amongst the Prâ—sbyâ—eâ—â— oâ—â—ut us in hope when it will be Dr. But from hence nothing câ—n be â—â—â—â—â—ted â—hich here you would serue out of it viz. That here should be a dividing â—f the Ministry to these severaâ— works as â—f one and the same man here is Mr Doctâ—â—â—â—â—aven all is like to be lost why pray let it go for Christ and the Gospel Mr Doctor should not intend both in resâ—ect of several hearers the same Ministerial work in the Paâ—toral and Doctoral charge is to apply it selfe to the young and old in catechetical exercâ—â—es to â—he 〈◊〉 and Prophetical exercises to the other Râ—â—p 1. What Mr Doctor nothing your self have inserted much â—ut hath Goâ— set up in the Church differing Ministries Eph. 4.11 and to these are there appointed several administrations 1 Cor. 12.5 and then several capacities accordâ—nâ—ly and yet I need to shew you away to screw them hence if they be clear in other Scriptures elsewhere againe these administrations are for severall works or operations 1 Cor. 12.6 and thus Mr Doctor your scruples about this all-along moved are satisfied if you are by clear Gospel truth satisfiable if not I must leave you to God 2. See how Mr Doctors Bels hang together here is the Pastoral and the Doctoral charge here are several hearers and these hearers of several capacities yet for to uphold a single Ministry one man must do it all 3. Mr Doctor had forgot the Hebrews were a Church society that were here wrot unto Heb 3. partakers of the heavenly calling brethren and holy brethâ—eâ— Heb. 12.22 and 5.12 and doâ—h Mr Doctor read that in the first 200 years of Ch ist the Catechist did at all Catechize men within the Church and baptized as these were who would thinke Mr Doctor were so deluded P. 30. Must not repentance c. Dr. This Quest and Resp to it and all the following discourse upon it it is to me so confused intricate that I can make no sence of it nor hath it any coherence with â—hat which the Apostle doth aime at in the place nor is it worth the consideration it is so silly and so weake Resp I wil not open these things but refer them to the Reader to judge where
Scripture as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act 20.17 he called for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thus that 1 Cor 12.28 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is that under these words set down in the plurall number the whole ordinary Church ministry are comprehended of Ephesus or Corinth and consequently may be of any other Church Now Reader judge where this be nonsense where a man but of small understanding may not apprehend it though not a Doctor and where it agreeth with the whole scope of my Book or not and how little cause the Doctor hath to call it nonsense Dr. If the thing in question had been proved these objections might have been made but now they are a begging of the question Resp Sir when God hath thrown down Babel he will prove it unto you then and I shall no need beg the Question any more nor if you would yeild to the truth I need not come a begging to you for these things at all P. 11. The third Church Dr. Where was the second Church spoken of For hitherto he hath mentioned only Rome to prove the point which hath yeildâ—d no proof at all Resp 1. The first Church which I now must make the second was that of Ephesians pag 2. O Mr Doctor have you this twelve month been making observations on my Book and pass over the subject of my discourse with so little notice as to ask where the second was sure that text of Scripture doth dazle your eie-sight when ye come to look on it because ye cannot see a single ministry in it it was a wonder that Antichrist did not see this would destroy his way of administrations â—â—r him Dr. Nor is here from this 1 Cor. 12.4 any word of proof but that there are severall administrations to generall persâ—nâ— And what then is therfore an Evangelist a distinct ordinary perpetuall Officer in the Church O silly silly weaknesse Resp Sir take heed lest you come in the compass of those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Cor 2.17 which are corrupters of the Word Sir how can these gifts belong to generall persons which are to be in every constituted Church ordinarily for which God hath designed severall administraâ—â—oâ—s in the Word Sir your generall persons is a tearm â—o generall to be used in controversy when you more particularly express your self I will more particularly answer you if this do not suffice you P. 11. Mark 6.7 Luk 10.1 Christ sends his forth two by two Dr. This is a proof like all the rest from the circumstance of a fact to argue a perpetuall institution is very weak Christ sends his Disciples by two and two and the ministry of the Gospel is not a single work therfore beside Pastors and Teachers there must be Evangelists in ordinary and perpetually in office What a senslesse consequence is this Resp This act of Christ was brought only to prove against a single ministry as now used the Church being not yet fully constituted 2. Whereas you make a great cry of nothing with a O Yes this is proof like all the rest from the circumstance of a fact Sir what if you had no more to convince you of your single ministry is not this enough was not here the sending of the Apostles and seventy to teach according to which pattern should not you walk by if you would walk in the truth had Moses more then the pattern to do all his Tabernacle work by Sir was this only done in one two or were not all the eighty two so sent forth and so commemorated by the Evangelists sure if the thing were so slight as you make it there would not have been that care to set it down there was And as these now so after they alwaies did in the Historie of the Acts go two or three together from this their former Commission Sir if men would believe you it were nothing for you to make nothing of overcoming the truth with branding it with senslesse consequence drawn by your self out of that was never intended by me and so if there be any senslesnesse in the consequence it is your own and none of mine P. 12. I shewed why Christ sent the Disciples and seventy by two and two and not by three because none were to officiate the Evangelists office while Christ was living and in this he was 〈◊〉 And whereas I said I remember not that the Apostles are said to Evangelize during Christ's being on earth Mr Doctor in his Scholia saith This assertion is false the twelve did Evangelize while Christ was alive the text saith it expresly Luk 9.6 Resp 1. I did not assert the thing but said as I did remember it is not said they did not I hastily writing did not examine it 2. That they did Evangelize as the Church Evangelists did in constituted Churches after Christ's resurrection I say that the assertion if Mr Doctor will have it so is true and the contrary false P. 12. The time of gathering Churches was not yet come c. Dr. Those that became Disciples to Christ to what were they gathered why were not they a Church that were united to him by faith as his members Resp Mr Doctor may satisfie himself concerning these Questions without my Answer I wonder he useth a why and what about it 1. Were there not many a one with him by faith that were not in publique Church Fellowship or in Church Ordinances with him as Lot Job and others before not circumcised many in the Antichristian church now are of Christ's invisible church Rev. 18.4 and no man will say these were in a visible church socieâ—y of Christ why were they called out else Nicodemus and others 2. The Holy Ghost will give another answer Act 1.4 they must tarry at Jerusalem for the Holy Ghost before they constituted churches yea in Judea and Jerusalem vers 4. and Eph 4.8 10 11. will shew you Christ went to Heaven before he gave thâ— gifts of church ministry to the church to be ministred unto in a church way as they after were to be administred Dr. Christ declares that M ses ministry was at an end with John the Baptists time Math 11.12 13. Luk 16.16 Resp 1. Neither of these Scriptures say that it was at an end but that it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 untill John 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. from thenceforth the Kâ—ngdom of Heaven is preached Note untill John there was none else but Moses ministry and that it was not utterly abolished in John's time or by John Math 23.1 2. Jesus said to the Disciples and to the Multitude The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses Chair Whatsoever therfore they say unto you do ye c. This was in the last year of Christs ministry and after John the Baptists death and yet it is not abolished utterly if it were dead it was not buried 2. That churches were not constituted see the Historie Act 6. Deacons are set up in the church after 1 Cor 6.1 the