Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	apostle_n	church_n	pillar_n	3,742	5	10.1590	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A77724	A publick disputation sundry dayes at Killingworth in Warwick-shire, betwixt John Bryan, doctor in divinity (minister at Coventry) and John Onley, pastor of a church at Lawford. Upon this question, whether the parishes of this nation generally be true churches. Wherin are nine arguments alleged in proof of the affirmative of the question, with the answer of I. O. thereunto, together with Doctor B. Reply. Also an addition of ten arguments more in further proof of the question, with an answer adjoyned in disproof thereof. Published by both their consents, as appears by the ensuing epistles.	Bryan, John, d. 1676.; Onley, John.	1655 (1655)	Wing B5245; Thomason E823_9; ESTC R207672	61,370	75

Psal 63. 1 2. You deny my Minor with the same limitation as you granted the Major God dwels not you say in the Parishes of this Nation as a Church I will to gratify and if it be possible to convince you make good that Christ dwels in the Parishes of this Nation as a Church by those three Reasons evidencing his presence amongst us For the fortifying whereof I was sparing in bringing Scripture-proof or farther reason not because I had not store of both but because I judged it needless to light a Candle to the Sun but seeing you tax me for bare Asserting you shall see me strongly Confirming each of the Reasons taking in your own restriction First I prove the Faithfull Constant Preaching of the Word to be a note of Christs presence with a people as a Church Deus 4. 7 8. So nigh unto them this speciall neerness of God is proved because they had the Law set before them i. e. fixed among them Psal 147. 19 20. By Word he means his will revealed in the Scriptures given to his Church as a most precious and peculiar treasure Zech. 8. 23. The reason why the Gentiles should joyn themselves to the Jews is because the Word was with them we have heard by your Preaching this was the great and glorious prerogative of the Jews which afterward they lost and as soon as they lost it ceased to be a Church Acts 13. 46. the Apostle witnesseth this to be the greatest privilege the Jews had Rom. 3. 1 2. If this be a peculiar privilege to the Church of God to have a standing fixed preaching of the Word among them and if no People in the world can be named that had this ordinance of preaching which were not Gods Church then this is a sure sign Secondly it appears that his working saving Grace by this Ordinance is as a sure sign 1 Cor. 14. 24 25. he will report that God is in you as a Church of a truth John 4. 22. Christ proves the Jewes to be a true Church Because Salvation might be had there out of the Church there is no salvation ordinarily If you can shew that Christ is present to Convert c. in any Societie where his word is faithfully and constantly Preached that is not his Church this Reason shall stand for invalid Thirdly the meeting mentioned Matth. 18. you deny not to be a Church-meeting therefore where a Societie meet to worship God by Prayer as you expound it or for the Administration of Church Censures as the place carries it there Christ is present as his Church Now that the Word is faithfully and constantly Preached in our Assemblyes and that Christ Converts c. by our Preaching and that our People meet together to pray in his Name is manifest to all the world that we have idle ignorant Ministers in many Congregations and a great multitude that want the power of Godliness among us c. is acknowledged but it s well known as bad of both sorts were in the Church of the Jewes and in the Apostolicall Churches which notwithstanding remained true Churches while he continued his presence and they met and joyned in his true worship till God gave them a bill of divorce and withdrew his presence and they cast off Gods true worship through obstinacie Those Assemblies that are built upon the Foundation of the Arg. 5. Prophets and Apostles are true Churches Ephes 2. 19 20. But ours are so built for they have the whole Doctrine of the Old Dr. B. and New Testament for the infallible and immoveable ground of their Faith whereby they subsist in Church-Communion I deny you Minor What you mean by these words they have Answ J. O. the whole Doctrine c. is doubtfull if by having of it you mean Christ hath left this Old and New Testament in the world for the immoveable ground of mens Faith that 's true but nothing to the purpose for if so it 's left to all men and many men may also beleeve it to be so and yet be so far from being built upon it as they walk and build directly from it If you mean that they have it in the practise of it so as they practically build upon it that 's false for such Persons are built upon it as the Apostle holds out in that Chapter such who were dead but now alive saved by Grace such who were made to sit in heavenly places in Christ Now the greater part of the men in your Parishes are such as were never spiritually alive lying in their sins still unquickned therefore they are not built upon that Foundation practically When I say our Assemblies are built upon Propheticall and Apostolicall Reply Doctrine I mean there is no other Doctrine taught or own'd with us but what hath warrant from the Old and New Testament Dr. B. if there be shew it now that hence it followes we are therefore Gods true Church is apparent from the Apostles Scope proving the Ephesians to be the Houshold of God because they were so built for that by building is meant Owning and Confessing the truth I prove from that of our Saviour Mat. 16. 18. nor can you shew any Society Confessing the whole truth of God that was not a true Church The want of Practise which you allege in the greatest part of our Members weakens not at all the force of the Argument for the very same is taxed by our Saviour in the Church of Sardis Rev. 3. 1. Thou hast a name to live and art dead the generalitie of the members of that Church were voyd o● Grace and ungodly men and yet Christ owns it for his Church in the beginning of that verse and how far the Church of Corinth and other Gospell Churches were from being built practically in your sense you have heard sufficiently and yet blessed be God we have in our Parochiall Churches a competent number of practicall Christians that walk exactly according to the rule of the Gospell for whose sakes if you had the Spirit of Christ you would I suppose acknowlege our whole Societies to be his visible Churches That Church that is the pillar and ground of truth is the true Arg. 6. Church 1 Tim. 3. 15. but so is the Church of England in respect of the profession and maintenance of true Religion which it both Dr. B. supporteth as a Pillar and maketh it openly known to others defending it against all Errors Contradictions and Corruptions whatsoever Revel 2. 13. You subtilly alter the termes of the question that the folly of your Argument may not appear instead of these words the Parishes of this Nation you say the Church of England which you ought not to have done the Argument from these words if it include the Question must proceed thus That Church which is the Pillar and ground of Truth is a true Church but so are the Parishes of this Nation in their maintaining and professing true Religion supporting

it as a Pillar c. Now Sir The Minor is evidently false the very naming of it is Confutation sufficient it being evident to behold that the Parishes of this Nation have always been and still are inclinable to whatsoever their Teachers and Rulers set up without ever questioning the truth of it except here and there a man which is nothing to our question it being of the Parishes generally Look upon them in the time of Popery and produce one Parish-Church much less all that opposed the power of the Pope but all inclinable to that wicked worship so in the time of Prelacy how conformable to that never once talking then of Presbytery and I believe as formerl● so now if the power of this Nation should enact that al should turn Independents they would obey without any general opposition and within this few years would as little think of Presbytery which you think to be truth now as they did then when he was Counted an Hereticke that believed not as the Church believed Which was then the scarlet-coloured whore of Rome and yet you let not to say they have been the Pillar of Truth defending it against all Errors which if true Presbytery is false in that the Parishes of this Nation have born Testimony to two contrary Religions Popery and Prelacy That Church that one time professeth Popery and another while Prelacy being variable according to the times in which she lives that Church is not the Pillar and ground of truth But the Parishes of this Nation have one while c. Ergo and for Revel 2. 13. When you have proved the Parishes of this Nation Pergamus I will Consider of it I know no advantage I should have gotten if the word Reply Dr. B. Church had been permitted to stand instead of Parishes but rather disadvantage because a National Church is as liable if not more to exception nor can I imagine how this could have hidden the folly of my Argument its folly to pick a quarrell the Church is nothing els but the Parishes or if you will that is the Mother these the daughters the Minor proposition which you deny will appear evident enough by considering the Apostles meaning of Pillar and Ground of Truth and applying it to our Assemblies both which I will do in few words The House or Church of God is so call'd in respect of the profession and maintenance of the true Religion of God which it both supporteth as a Pillar and maketh it openly known to others as Magistrates use to hang and affix their Edicts and Proclamations on pillars or other places of strength and firmness and here consequently is declared the Office and duty of the Church in holding and publishing the Truth and defending it against all Errors Contradictions and Corruptions and whatsoever Societies do this it s written upon those Societies with a Sun beam that they are the true Churches of Christ Now it s notoriously known that the Articles of Religion agreed upon Anno 1562. are published and consented to by all the See the answer of the Elders of the several Churches of New England to the ninth Question p. 26. and Church Covenant p. 40. Ministers endowed in every Congregation of this Nation with the silent consent also of the People and subscription of the hands of the chief of them wherein they do acknowledge no rule of Faith or Manners but the holy Scriptures no divine worship but to God only no Mediation nor Salvation but in Christ only no Conversion by Mans free will but by Gods free grace no Justification but by Faith no perfection nor merit of works with all other necessary and saving truths upon which the Church is grounded and built and which also it holdeth forth and maintaineth This alone abundantly evinceth that the Parishes of this Nation are the Pillar and ground of Truth Besides these truths are daily in most Congregations faithfully opened and applyed and whatsoever is contrary thereunto on the right hand or left convincingly confuted our Parishes therefore keeping Gods Records faithfully are his Registers and consequently his true Churches Your declaiming against the inclinableness of our People to alter with their Governors might have been spared well knowing it was the practice of the Church of Israel to do so and the Churches of Galatia how soon were they removed from him that called them into the Grace of Christ unto another Gospell to the admiration of the Apostle Galat. 1. 6. And therefore it needs be no marvell if our people so easily change from one Church-Goverment to another which they may do without prejudice to fundamental verity which though the Galathians overthrew yet they remained true Churches If you read the Epistle of Christ to Pergamus understandingly and compare our Church with that you will find that we are not worse and wherein any in that Church were praise-worthy for doing or suffering you may find some in ours not short of them From our practice agreeing with the practice of the Primitive Arg. 7. Dr. B. Apostolical Churches Those Societies that continue stedfast in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and in Prayer are true Churches Acts 2. 42. but so do ours Ergo. I deny your Minor and the reason why we separate from you is upon Answ J. O. that ground you have added neither Scripture nor Reason to prove your Minor but have left it destitute of all proof you could hardly have brought a Scripture in all the Bible which in every thing both in doctrine and practice makes so directly against you as this that you have brought for you For first your doctrine is contrary secondly so is your practice for doctrine first after that Peter had preacht the Lord Christ to these men it working upon their hearts ver 37. they cryed out What shall we do the doctrine of the Apostle to them ver 38. is Repent and be Baptized and so they were ver 41. they were the same day added to the Church but you both Ministers and People go directly contrary first Baptize them at three or four dayes old and so make them members of your Church and perhaps twenty or forty years after preach Repentance just contrary to the Apostles doctrine and Gods examples 1 King 6. 7. Ephes 2. 21 22. 1 Pet. 2. 5. First you take into your house unhued stones and unsquared timber and twenty or forty years after fall to squaring them for the building Now for your practice in your fellowship the powerfull operation of the Gospell of Jesus Christ after it had workt them from the world and from themselves and one into another in the unity of the Spirit as one man it is said ver 44 45. and all that believed were together had all things common and sold their possessions c. And chap. 4. 32 34 35. and the multitude of believers were of one heart and one soul neither said any of them that ought that he possessed was

positively affirm they did consist for the most part of visible wicked men abhominable disobedient and to every good work reprobate for which you give no proof but your own conjecture yet thereupon pass sentence upon all my discourse that it is not at all to the purpose but I presume every unprejudiced man will judge you have clearly lost your cause if it can be made good that the member of our Parishes are such as the Apostolical Churches were even in their state of degeneration which you so much harp upon you deny not but they were true Churchrs and their Members called Saints notwithstanding therefore if our Members appear to be as good Saints as they were their matter then is undoubtedly right let them come into comparison there were amongst them very many in some of these Churches by far the greater number Schismatical Heretical Carnal Proud Lovers of Preheminence Supercilious Censurers Contentious Abusers of Christian Liberty Prophaners of the Lords Supper Gluttons Drunkards Pelly-Gods disorderly Walkers Idle Busie-bodies such as had not repented of the Vncleanness and Fornication and Lasciviousness which they had committed Enemies to the Cross of Christ Minders of earthly things Contemners of the holy Apostle their spiritual Father having a Form of Godliness but denying the power of it prof●ssing to know God but in their works denying him Abominable Luke warm c. you cannot I suppose find worse then these in our Assemblies What they were at their first forming it makes no matter to me at present yet some being really Saints such as you describe the whole Churches are acknowledged Societies of Saints the denomination being taken not from the greater but better part so a Field where good Corn hath been sowne and some grows is called a Corn field a Wheat heap though most Chaff Gold Oare though more Dross than Gold You say there may be some in Gods favor in our Congregations but if an Holy Humble Wise Exact Gracious conversation argue men to be in the favor of God an impartial Eye may easily discern more such in a few of our Assemblies than in most of the Seperate Societies Yea if you be ingenious you will acknowleage that the Holiness which m●st of all your Members have saving in two or three new Opinions they learnt it in and had it from our Parechial Congregations a little Practical holiness serves the turn of too many when they have forsaken us and joyned with you you spend but might as well have spared a multitude of words in declaiming against our peoples profession of the true Faith without works the stress of the Argument is not laid upon verbal profession though let me tell you if it were it might sink your Cause for as true Faith gives being to the invisible Church so does prefession of the true Faith and not Moral Obedience give being to the visible Do you no read of many who upon their verbal Prosession were Baptized by the Apostles themselves and incorporated into the Church Did not Obedience of Faith make the Gentiles Churches Rom. 1. 5. 8. And if Obedience to the Commandements be so necessary to the life and first being of a true Gospel Church that question would be resolved What difference there is between the Covenant of Grace and of Works That which I affirm stands firm upon a sure foundation that where a whole Society professeth all fundamental Truths though the greater part be naught yet if soms of them be Saints indeed Christ owns it for his Church for their sake the Church of Sardis had a name to live i. e. consisted of verbal Professors but it was dead The generality were void of Grace and wicked Members yet for the sakes of a few names that had not defiled their Garments Christ owns it for his Church You say God had some such thing in Babilon If you will say Babilon profosseth the true Faith I will say and prove it a true Church for the sakes of Gods People in it the reason of whose Evocation may easily appear to be their devilish Doctrins pertinaciously held for which their damnation was at the door But you frequently urge the wicked ones in Sardis and other Gospel-Churches were visible Saints at first and yet you bring no proof at all besides your own presumption that they brought more than a verbal profession to make them so or if you could evince they did no prejudice would come thereby to my Argument which proceeds not upon that which you call first constitution that our 8432. Parishes as you number them were at their first constitution for the most part abominable c. is also void of proof I might moreover add that our members may bee called visible Saints because they bear the badge of holy Baptisme and so are sacramentally holy every one of them as Je●usalem when it was worser than Sodom was called the holy Ci●●● bu● I forbear to press this because you hold our baptisme a null●●ie I may happily ere long prove yours to bee so besides the sanct●●y of that doctrine which wee profess may give us the name of S●ints comparatively or in respect of Heathens in opposition to whom the Apostle calls tho●e to whom he writes Saints I perceive the name of Pa●ish is extream distasteful to you and all of your way which yet is nothing else in signification but the confining of Churches within convenient local limits were is not that I finde sundry learned godly men whose treatises are or may be in your hands abundantly vindicating both the name and thing among others Mr. Hollingworth in his rejoynder to Mr. Eaton and Mr. Taylers Reply chap 2. shewing how Parishes are jure divino and how not and Mr. Cawdin in his Review of Mr. Hookers survey who gives six satis●actory Answers to that first Negative Conclusion viz. That Parish precincts do not give a man Right or make him more fit for a visible Congregation Chap. 2. p. 87. c. I should spend some pains and time to stop your mouth from quarrelling with the term and make it appear that there is no reason why the number of these bounds by whomsoever measured should offend any to their writings I refer you and follow you from the matter to the form of a visible Church viz. Combination or Conjunction in Covenant which is in our Assemblies and is manifested by their constant meeting every Lords day c. You say you denied a Covenant to be the form of a Church which I remember not I am sure some of the seven that took your part in the dispu●ation who were Anti-pedo baptists and were lookt upon by many hearers as Herods taking part with Pilate against Christ did expresly own it and the Argument proceeded with your Approbation and you now shew your gratefulness to them by a tender touch of their name and justifie their mutual Covenanting and consederating in the fellowship of the Faith as that which gives being and constitution to a