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truth_n apostle_n church_n pillar_n 3,742 5 10.1590 5 true
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A77724 A publick disputation sundry dayes at Killingworth in Warwick-shire, betwixt John Bryan, doctor in divinity (minister at Coventry) and John Onley, pastor of a church at Lawford. Upon this question, whether the parishes of this nation generally be true churches. Wherin are nine arguments alleged in proof of the affirmative of the question, with the answer of I. O. thereunto, together with Doctor B. Reply. Also an addition of ten arguments more in further proof of the question, with an answer adjoyned in disproof thereof. Published by both their consents, as appears by the ensuing epistles. Bryan, John, d. 1676.; Onley, John. 1655 (1655) Wing B5245; Thomason E823_9; ESTC R207672 61,370 75

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psal_n 63._o 1_o 2._o you_o deny_v my_o minor_n with_o the_o same_o limitation_n as_o you_o grant_v the_o major_n god_n dwell_v not_o you_o say_v in_o the_o parish_n of_o this_o nation_n as_o a_o church_n i_o will_v to_o gratify_v and_o if_o it_o be_v possible_a to_o convince_v you_o make_v good_a that_o christ_n dwell_v in_o the_o parish_n of_o this_o nation_n as_o a_o church_n by_o those_o three_o reason_n evidence_v his_o presence_n among_o we_o for_o the_o fortify_v whereof_o i_o be_v spare_v in_o bring_v scripture-proof_n or_o far_a reason_n not_o because_o i_o have_v not_o store_n of_o both_o but_o because_o i_o judge_v it_o needless_a to_o light_v a_o candle_n to_o the_o sun_n but_o see_v you_o tax_v i_o for_o bare_a assert_v you_o shall_v see_v i_o strong_o confirm_v each_o of_o the_o reason_n take_v in_o your_o own_o restriction_n first_o i_o prove_v the_o faithful_n constant_n preach_v of_o the_o word_n to_o be_v a_o note_n of_o christ_n presence_n with_o a_o people_n as_o 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positive_o affirm_v they_o do_v consist_v for_o the_o most_o part_n of_o visible_a wicked_a man_n abominable_a disobedient_a and_o to_o every_o good_a work_n reprobate_a for_o which_o you_o give_v no_o proof_n but_o your_o own_o conjecture_n yet_o thereupon_o pass_v sentence_n upon_o all_o my_o discourse_n that_o it_o be_v not_o at_o all_o to_o the_o purpose_n but_o i_o presume_v every_o unprejudiced_a man_n will_v judge_v you_o have_v clear_o lose_v your_o cause_n if_o it_o can_v be_v make_v good_a that_o the_o member_n of_o our_o parish_n be_v such_o as_o the_o apostolical_a church_n be_v even_o in_o their_o state_n of_o degeneration_n which_o you_o so_o much_o harp_n upon_o you_o deny_v not_o but_o they_o be_v true_a churchrs_n and_o their_o member_n call_v saint_n notwithstanding_o &_o therefore_o if_o our_o member_n appear_v to_o be_v as_o good_a saint_n as_o they_o be_v their_o matter_n then_o be_v undoubted_o right_a let_v they_o come_v into_o comparison_n there_o be_v among_o they_o very_o many_o &_o in_o some_o of_o these_o church_n by_o far_o the_o great_a number_n schismatical_a heretical_a carnal_a proud_a lover_n of_o pre-eminence_n supercilious_a censurer_n contentious_a abuser_n of_o christian_a liberty_n prophaner_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n glutton_n drunkard_n pelly-god_n disorderly_a walker_n idle_n busybody_n such_o as_o have_v not_o repent_v of_o the_o uncleanness_n and_o fornication_n and_o lasciviousness_n which_o they_o have_v commit_v enemy_n to_o the_o cross_n of_o christ_n minders_n of_o earthly_a thing_n contemner_n of_o the_o holy_a apostle_n their_o spiritual_a father_n have_v a_o form_n of_o godliness_n but_o deny_v the_o power_n of_o it_o profess_v to_o know_v god_n but_o in_o their_o work_n deny_v he_o abominable_a luke_n warm_a etc._n etc._n you_o can_v i_o suppose_v find_v worse_o than_o these_o in_o our_o assembly_n what_o they_o be_v at_o their_o first_o form_v it_o make_v no_o matter_n to_o i_o at_o present_a yet_o some_o be_v real_o saint_n such_o as_o you_o describe_v the_o whole_a church_n be_v acknowledge_v society_n of_o saint_n the_o denomination_n be_v take_v not_o from_o the_o great_a but_o better_a part_n so_o a_o field_n where_o good_a corn_n have_v be_v sow_v and_o some_o grow_v be_v call_v a_o corn_n field_n a_o wheat_n heap_n though_o most_o chaff_n gold_n oar_n though_o more_o dross_n than_o gold_n you_o say_v there_o may_v be_v some_o in_o god_n favour_n in_o our_o congregation_n but_o if_o a_o holy_a humble_a wise_a exact_v gracious_a conversation_n argue_v man_n to_o be_v in_o the_o favour_n of_o god_n a_o impartial_a eye_n may_v easy_o discern_v more_o such_o in_o a_o few_o of_o our_o assembly_n than_o in_o most_o of_o the_o separate_a society_n yea_o if_o you_o be_v ingenious_a you_o will_v acknowleage_v that_o the_o holiness_n which_o m●st_v of_o all_o your_o member_n have_v save_v in_o two_o or_o three_o new_a opinion_n they_o learn_v it_o in_o and_o have_v it_o from_o our_o parechial_a congregation_n a_o little_a practical_a holiness_n serve_v the_o turn_n of_o too_o many_o when_o they_o have_v forsake_v we_o and_o join_v with_o you_o you_o spend_v but_o may_v as_o well_o have_v spare_v a_o multitude_n of_o word_n in_o declaim_v against_o our_o people_n profession_n of_o the_o true_a faith_n without_o work_n the_o stress_n of_o the_o argument_n be_v not_o lay_v upon_o verbal_a profession_n though_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o if_o it_o be_v it_o may_v sink_v your_o cause_n for_o as_o true_a faith_n give_v be_v to_o the_o invisible_a church_n so_o do_v prefession_n of_o the_o true_a faith_n and_o not_o moral_a obedience_n give_v be_v to_o the_o visible_a do_v you_o not_o read_v of_o many_o who_o upon_o their_o verbal_a procession_n be_v baptise_a by_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o and_o incorporate_v into_o the_o church_n do_v not_o obedience_n of_o faith_n make_v the_o gentile_n church_n rom._n 1._o 5._o 8._o and_o if_o obedience_n to_o the_o commandment_n be_v so_o necessary_a to_o the_o life_n and_o first_o be_v of_o a_o true_a gospel_n church_n that_o question_n will_v be_v resolve_v what_o difference_n there_o be_v between_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n and_o of_o work_n that_o which_o i_o affirm_v stand_v firm_a upon_o a_o sure_a foundation_n that_o where_o a_o whole_a society_n profess_v all_o fundamental_a truth_n though_o the_o great_a part_n be_v naught_o yet_o if_o som_n of_o they_o be_v saint_n indeed_o christ_n own_v it_o for_o his_o church_n for_o their_o sake_n the_o church_n of_o sardis_n have_v a_o name_n to_o live_v i._n e._n consist_v of_o verbal_a professor_n but_o it_o be_v dead_a the_o generality_n be_v void_a of_o grace_n and_o wicked_a member_n yet_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o a_o few_o name_n that_o have_v not_o defile_v their_o garment_n christ_n own_v it_o for_o his_o church_n you_o say_v god_n have_v some_o such_o thing_n in_o babylon_n if_o you_o will_v say_v babylon_n profoss_v the_o true_a faith_n i_o will_v say_v and_o prove_v it_o a_o true_a church_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o god_n people_n in_o it_o the_o reason_n of_o who_o evocation_n may_v easy_o appear_v to_o be_v their_o devilish_a doctrine_n pertinacious_o hold_v for_o which_o their_o damnation_n be_v at_o the_o door_n but_o you_o frequent_o urge_v the_o wicked_a one_o in_o sardis_n and_o other_o gospel-churche_n be_v visible_a saint_n at_o first_o and_o yet_o you_o bring_v no_o proof_n at_o all_o beside_o your_o own_o presumption_n that_o they_o bring_v more_o than_o a_o verbal_a profession_n to_o make_v they_o so_o or_o if_o you_o can_v evince_v they_o do_v no_o prejudice_n will_v come_v thereby_o to_o my_o argument_n which_o proceed_v not_o upon_o that_o which_o you_o call_v first_o constitution_n that_o our_o 8432._o parish_n as_o you_o number_v they_o be_v at_o their_o first_o constitution_n for_o the_o most_o part_n abominable_a etc._n etc._n be_v also_o void_a of_o proof_n i_o may_v moreover_o add_v that_o our_o member_n may_v be_v call_v visible_a saint_n because_o they_o bear_v the_o badge_n of_o holy_a baptism_n and_o so_o be_v sacramental_o holy_a every_o one_o of_o they_o as_o je●usalem_n when_o it_o be_v worse_a than_o sodom_n be_v call_v the_o holy_a ci●●●_n bu●_n i_o forbear_v to_o press_v this_o because_o you_o hold_v our_o baptism_n a_o null●●ie_n i_o may_v happy_o ere_o long_o prove_v you_o to_o be_v so_o beside_o the_o sanct●●y_n of_o that_o doctrine_n which_o we_o profess_v may_v give_v we_o the_o name_n of_o s●ints_n comparative_o or_o in_o respect_n of_o heathen_n in_o opposition_n to_o who_o the_o apostle_n call_v tho●e_v to_o who_o he_o write_v saint_n i_o perceive_v the_o name_n of_o pa●ish_n be_v extreme_a distasteful_a to_o you_o and_o all_o of_o your_o way_n which_o yet_o be_v nothing_o else_o in_o signification_n but_o the_o confine_n of_o church_n within_o convenient_a local_a limit_n be_v be_v not_o that_o i_o find_v sundry_a learned_a godly_a man_n who_o treatise_n be_v or_o may_v be_v in_o your_o hand_n abundant_o vindicate_v both_o the_o name_n and_o thing_n among_o other_o mr._n hollingworth_n in_o his_o rejoynder_n to_o mr._n eton_n and_o mr._n tailor_n reply_n chap_n 2._o show_v how_o parish_n be_v jure_fw-la divino_fw-la and_o how_o not_o and_o mr._n cawdin_n in_o his_o review_n of_o mr._n hooker_n survey_v who_o give_v six_o satisfactory_a answer_n to_o that_o first_o negative_a conclusion_n viz._n that_o parish_n precinct_n do_v not_o give_v a_o man_n right_o or_o make_v he_o more_o fit_a for_o a_o visible_a congregation_n chap._n 2._o p._n 87._o etc._n etc._n i_o shall_v spend_v some_o pain_n and_o time_n to_o stop_v your_o mouth_n from_o quarrel_v with_o the_o term_n and_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n why_o the_o number_n of_o these_o bound_n by_o whosoever_o measure_v shall_v offend_v any_o to_o their_o writing_n i_o refer_v you_o and_o follow_v you_o from_o the_o matter_n to_o the_o form_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n viz._n combination_n or_o conjunction_n in_o covenant_n which_o be_v in_o our_o assembly_n and_o be_v manifest_v by_o their_o constant_a meeting_n every_o lord_n day_n etc._n etc._n you_o say_v you_o deny_v a_o covenant_n to_o be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n which_o i_o remember_v not_o i_o be_o sure_a some_o of_o the_o seven_o that_o take_v your_o part_n in_o the_o disputation_n who_o be_v antipedo_a baptist_n and_o be_v look_v upon_o by_o many_o hearer_n as_o herod_n take_v part_n with_o pilate_n against_o christ_n do_v express_o own_v it_o and_o the_o argument_n proceed_v with_o your_o approbation_n and_o you_o now_o show_v your_o gratefulness_n to_o they_o by_o a_o tender_a touch_n of_o their_o name_n and_o justify_v their_o mutual_a covenant_v and_o consederate_v in_o the_o fellowship_n of_o the_o faith_n as_o that_o which_o give_v be_v and_o constitution_n to_o a_o