shamefull language when he had vttered most horrible and diuelish blasphemie when he had wasted spoiled and burned all holie thinges when he had committed all these outrages and villanies then was he thought a meete man to be taken into gods pricuie counsell and a persone woorthie to whome God besides all other secretes shoulde mercifully reuele that mysterie also of the deuising of purgatorie Then did this great wise man vnderstand at the length that S. Augustine which held that we should praie vnto God in our Sacrifices for the dead that S. Cyprian which laied this most grieuous punishment vpon such as appointed Priestes in their testamēt to be tutours or gouernours to their children that there should no sacrifice be offred vp for them in the churches that S. Chrysostome whiche referred this ordinaunce to the tradition of the Apostles that S. Denise to passe ouer a numbre of others which wrote very diligently of the care that is to be had for the departed in the faith and of praiers that are to be made vnto God for their deliueraunce Luther I saie vnderstood from heauen that al these men had ben in great errour and folie Trulie the capitaine of this your faction had a great commoditie of his naughtines and folie if after the reising of such broiles and troubles in the worlde he was deliuered by the benefite of God from that errour in the which those holie Fathers most Godlie and wise men excellently wel learned in the Scriptures linked vnto Christe with a most streight band of heauenlie loue were quite drowned If no man can thus perswade him selfe vnlesse he be peeuish frantike and starke mad void not only of al godlie religion but also of common sense who doth not see that this opinion of Luther is wicked ād detestable taught and set out by none other then by the enemie the diuell But this saie you is not witten in the scripture What then The thing which the Apostles taught by word of mowth which their schollers deliuered to the posteritie whiche hath ben most constantly holden and beleeued from the primitiue Churche till our times whiche hath ben approued by the beleefe and full agreement of the whole Church for so manie hnndred yeares shall Luther a seditious mad selowe after so manie ages garishly auowch it to be a feined matter Shall men whiche take vpon them to be both Godlie and religious folow him as a God of heauen that attempteth most desperatly to assault heauen For he maketh warre against heauē which taketh vp armour against the faith of the Church No no saie you you would not thinke what manner of man he was For he I tel you woulde allowe nothing vnlesse he fownde it written in the holie scriptures Well sir I will not nowe handle that matter whiche is by the holy Fathers discussed long a goe howe the gospell consisteth not only in thinges written but also in customes and ordinaunces receiued without any writing deliuered vnto the Churche by worde of mowth and order of the Apostles how much the sure and groūded authoritie of the Church which is the piller and staie of truth is to be esteemed of howe great value and importaunce the agreement of all holy men in one minde without anie varietie ought to be all these thinges I will nowe omit and aske you one question how Luther when he saied there was a purgatorie to prooue it alleaged the testimonies of the holie scripture if there were no testimonie in the scripture that proued that there was a purgatorie Then againe when he saied that there was no Purgatorie by what testimonie of the Scripture thought he that Purgatorie might be vtterly disprooued Brought he anie one place by the whiche he might conuince that there is no Purgatorie Dowbtlesse not one Such therefore was his presumption that what so euer came into his head that woulde he constantly affirme and againe the selfe same thing if it misliked him would he vtterly denie And yet his disciples for sooth find no fault at all neither with his inconstancie neither yet with his lewd fasshions but what so euer the drowsie blowbol draueled out ouer his pottes that toke they vp so griedily as though it had ben good gospell But lest you should saie that it can not be shewed by the testimonie of the scripture that there is a purgatory although it be not necessarie yet besides those places whiche are wont to be alleaged for the proofe thereof I thinke it good to bring a fewe of the whiche that is one of S. Marke where our Lorde when he had saied that hel into the which al such shalbe throwen downe as esteeme more their bodilie pleasure then their dewtie towardes God shoulde haue this propertie that the worme of them that shall be tombled down headlong into it should neuer die and their fyer neuer be quenched he brought in foorthwith these wordes for euerie man shalbe seasoned in fyer and euery sacrifice shalbe seasoned in salt In this place there are two thinges to be noted One is that there is a worme that is to saie a vexation or torment of cōscience gnawing and molesting the minde the whiche shal haue an ende and that there is a torment of fyer also the whiche in like manner shall haue and end in some men For otherwise our Lorde woulde neuer haue brought that place out of Esaie their worme dieth not and their fyer is not quenched By the whiche place we are taught that there is one torment euerlasting and an other that lasteth but for a time For so muche therefore as this worme and fyer is a torment or vexation of minde and of tormentes there is one whiche is appointed by the iudgement of God to last but a time and the other to continew for euermore is it not euidently prooued that there is a purgatorie for so is the place of punishment called in the whiche by the sentence of God the sowles are purged within a certaine time of suche spottes of venial offences as they had gathered in this life An other thing worthy to be noted is this that no synne shal escape vnpunished For euen as in the old lawe it was not lawful to offre vp any Sacrifice without salt so is it not lawful for our soules to approch vnto the throne of Gods maiestie vnlesse their vncleanes be before clensed by salt and fyer that is to say by the rigour of Goddes iudgement and by dewe punishment that when al the spottes of vncleane affection be put out and quite consumed the faithful sowles may come to haue such a puritie and cleerenes that thei may be able to receiue the brightnes of God in them selues and be likened and confourmed to the glory of God For although by the mercy of God synne is taken quite away in such as stay them selues vppon a liuelie saith yet are they for the most parte so bounde with some knot of the law that they must needes satisfie
saie nothing elles but that you beare witnesse against your owne selfe For I praie you Sir who stirred vp that tempest Who armed the Frenche mâ—n against the King of Fraunce What discipline or instruction had they whiche contrary to their oth taken in the face of the worlde conttarie to they â–ª allegiaunce towards their Prince finallie contrarie to the maiestie and reuerence of kingly name set them selues in armour against the Kings owne person not only traiterously and villanously to dispatch the King out of his life but also to abolish the name of a King vtterly out of the common weale And you say the tempest is asswaged As though I had said that what so euer such traitors had most wickedly and rebelliusly deuised must nedes haue a prosperous successe No no. Their wicked attempt was repressed by policie and force and especially by the great grace and benefite of God it is nothing long of theÌ„ that like rebelles made warre against their prince For to haue brought their purpose to a mischieuous ende there lacked not in them any good wil but strength and power My discourse of the contempte of wordly thinges and desire of heauenly things you mislike not but you ar mad angry with me bicause I cal such men enemies of Religion as you saie were the seruauÌ„tes of God and sent froÌ„ heauen for the saluation of the world â–ª and it greaueth you that I should laugh at their vaine and folish atteÌ„pts Tel me I pray you Sir what take those felowes vpoÌ„ them which were sent as you say from heaueÌ„ Doubtles to deliuer Christian men from errour throughly to purge the Churche to restore the doctrine and rule of the Apostles life to set the truth at libertie whiche was as you say oppressed with coueteousnes and ambitioÌ„ to pul dreames and superstitioÌ„ out of meÌ„s harts I said this was a great vauÌ„t But Sir this kingdoÌ„ of God which they tooke vpoÌ„ theÌ„ to maintein â–ª this glorie of God for the which they haue entred into so gret a coÌ„flict doth it coÌ„sist in words oÌ„ly or in the workiÌ„g of vertue Surely if we beleue S. Paul it staÌ„deth in the streÌ„gth and coÌ„stant working of vertue wherfor if they mind to proue themselues honest meÌ„ let them restore the old modestie humilitie patience meekenes obedieÌ„ce chastitie puritie innnocentie the chastising of the bodie the continual warre bothe against the tyrannie of the flesh as also against al other vices let them restore that earnest loue and seruent charitie that continual meditation of heauenly thinges that godly exercise of praier vnto God both day and night for the prosperous estate and saluation of al men Let them take vp the crosse on their shoulders and crucifie al vncleanes of synnes let them forsake al pleasures of the world let them pul vp by the roote the very stringes of carnalitie â–ª finally let them mortifie al the vnbridled passions of their willes that nothinge liue in them but the power and wil of Christe and then wil we beleeue that they haue fulfilled their promise and quitte them selues like true men of their worde But if they haue done no suche thing but rather by their examples of life and doctrine haue brought to passe that men liue more frely in al kind of vice that they are the readier to commit sacrilege that they are the bolder to venter vpoÌ„ any vile and heinouse offence that they are the fierser and creweller yea more desperat then any mans hart can thinke to doe villanie and violence to their Princes for whose safetie they ought to hazard their owne liues if they forgetting Religion bend them selues wholly against religion is it not plaine that they are not onely to be scorned and laughed at but also to be abhorred and detested as the most horrible and crewel pestilence of a common weale Wel wel saie you I perceiue at the length what this your new sect is against the which you haue so sharply whetted your eloquence Oh what a pleasure youhaue to speake doubtfully and obscurely What saie you M. Haddon Say you that you do at leÌ„gth vnderstaÌ„d what my new secte is Say you that I do maintein any newfangled sect that I do allow their wicked actes which I accurse and detest That I am fallen froÌ„ the faith and Religion of the holy Catholike Church And then how stand these thiÌ„gs together that I should whet my eloqueÌ„ce against that secte which as you sai I folow my self Moreouer by what argumeÌ„t caÌ„ you proue it You haue peradueÌ„ture heard saie that I was a voluptuous maÌ„ geuen to pleasure and vncleanes of life desirous of nouelties hastie and headlong to make sedition debate and discord emoÌ„gest men And therfore you thinke peraduenture â–ª that I am entaÌ„gled with the like detestable vices as your Maisters are But coÌ„sider I pray you how these thinges that folow may staÌ„d together with this your most impudeÌ„t suspition At the length say you I see the aduersaries whom you would haue to be cut of from the Quenes maiestie and driuen out as the corrupters of the whole realme Whie then if you see that I am earnestly bent against all such as are the brochers of new fangled sectes if you say plainly that I would they should be driuen farre froÌ„ the presence and familiaritie of the Queene that they should be baÌ„nished out of the boundes of England doubtles neyther do these innouations like mee neither do I allow their wicked doinges But how do you defend them your selfe I am say you of a coÌ„trary opinion These professours of the Gospel are the seruantes of God sent vs from heauen to awake our sleapines in these daungerous times of the worlde growing now to olde age and to stirre vp our slownes These are woÌ„derful matters that you say if slepines may be awaked or slownes stirred vp So may feare beare it selfe hardily and the pleasure of the bodie restreine vice and vncleanes of life and mad rashnes wel and wisely gouern a coÌ„mon weal â–ª Then it foloweth They were sent from heaueÌ„ to coÌ„fute error to reproue impiety and therefore they are to be sought out of the Quenes Maiesty and to be much made of in al the coÌ„mon weale When ye spake these wordes you thought to reproue me of lightnes for beleuing otherwise of presumption for writing vnto the Quene You say furthermore that it is not necessarie to discusse particularlie euerie point of my accusation but only to gather them as it were into certaine heades and so briefely to runne them ouer Then you add these words I wil if I can put backe the very hornes of your accusation I woulde faine see with what manhood and strength you wil beginne the matter It foloweth First of al you saie we must consider the persones bicause they promise nobly and we must weie whether they be of habilitie to performe it whether they haue so muche vertue and holinesse as they pretend This would I faine
the auncieÌ„t Church which was put out Be therfore as good as your word perfourme your promise discharge your debt into the whiche you are incurred Restore that puritie of mind restore that chastitie of bodie restore that feruencie of godlines restore that continencie and gentlenes that peace and concord that band of charitie and frindship bringe your countreimen againe to that state from the whiche we are al fallen that you maie by such a wonderful alteration of thinges and heauenlie example of vertue put vs to silence to whome this newfanglednes is both suspected and hateful As for vs it is no meruaile if we haue not as yet atteined this great and high perfectioÌ„ in vertue For you haue not yet set out this goodlie light to vs. I aske this question therfore of such only as take your part how holily how vprightly how religiously they liue For reason would as I saied before that we should looke for no meane matters at your handes For you haue taken vpon you a charge of so great honour magnificencie and profite to the worlde as possibly there can not be deuised a greater Wherefore vnlesse your adherentes and disciples doe so much excell in vertue and honestie al other men that are vertuous and godlie and yet be not of your schoole that they maie dymme the light of their vertue and put them out of conceite you haue not fulfilled your promise For if the selfe same degree of honestie might haue ben kept and mainteined by vs without the losse and ruine of those thinges vpon the whiche you haue laied your violent and griedie handes if the vertue of your brethren doe not verie much passe the vertue of our men shal it not appeare to the worlde that you wise men haue taken a great deale of paines in defacing of those thinges which you haue ouerthrowen to no pourpose or profite Shall it not be seene that those thinges were not the lettes or staies vnto you for the which coulde not exercise iustice and godlines What if your Disciples are not only neuer the better by defacing those thinges but rather much more disodered and outragious muche more wicked and vicious What if licentious liuing be now lesse punished if mischieuous hardines be now greater if more debate and greater broyles haue bene stirred vp sence you haue set your selues to be teachers of men What if moe robberies and shamefuller actes are now coÌ„mitted emongest you in euery parte of the realme if it be true that is reported What if there be wrought more traiterous practises against the maiestie of Princes euen by such as haue geauen them selues fully and wholly to your doctrine But I wil let your maisters goe and will vrge you M. HaddoÌ„ once againe What can you alleage What example can you bringe of that auncient vertue How can you mainteine and defend this newfanglednes And yet you will auowch that your Churche differeth nothing at al from the order and discipline of the Apostles You saie manie things in deede but no maÌ„ which is in his right wit will euer beleeue you It is not ynough to aâ—firme what so euer you list in wordes I loke for the examples of this heauenly vertue and not for vaine woordes If you see vnlawful lust set at libertie disorder flinging vppe and downe without checke the highe waies beset with theeues and murderers tumultes stirred vp coÌ„spiracies wrought and daungerous practises deuised against common weales euerie where if all these mischiefes be not only not taken away after the time that the doctrin of these felowes whom you so highly commend tooke place but rather muche more increased with what face dare you saie that this your newe doctrine differreth nothing from the doctrine of the Apostles You saie that I require a perfection which can not be had in this life It is like ynough sir that I doe speake of light offences such as continent and honest men may fal into euery houre and not of most vile filthie and infamous crimes such as haue cawsed all holie things to be wasted spoiled and coÌ„sumed with fyer without any fruict of godlines and Religion the whiche thinges these felowes promised to restore You require of me that our church as you cal it and yours maie be set together and compared that it maie appeare at the length whether of them both is more established by the authoritie and doctrine of the Apostles Your request is not reasonable For I saie not that there is no spot of vncleanes at all emongest vs. But I saie and affirme that it is verie ill done of you that those spottes are not taken awaie emongest you by the diligence of your Apostles We haue promised nothing we haue not pleadged our faith and truth that all thinges should be brought againe to the olde perfection by our diligence no man can call vs into the court and charge vs that we haue not stoode to our promise But these men who as you saie were sent from heauen haue takeÌ„ this much vpon them to restore the puritie of the Gospell to bring againe charitie holines coÌ„tinencie with that most earnest longyng after the euerlasting glorie to bring al other such vertues as ar coÌ„teined in the word ofgod to light which were before buried in darkenes and to set vp once againe a heauenly coÌ„mon weale vpoÌ„ the earth But that you maie see what courtesie and fauour I wil shew you in this conflicte I will not require of you to examine and trie your manners by the streight discipline of the Apostles and by that exacte rule of most holie and perfect religion but to compare the state of this your Church with the grauitie vertue religion and worshipful behauiour of your auncetours the which thing if I can intreat you to do you shall vnderstand that there is so great oddes betwene your gospellishe doctrine and the honorable religion of olde England as can not be expressed in wordes Why then sir what a thing is this If you were neuer able after the tyme that you gaue your selues to these newe and vngodly opinions to reach to any part of the honour of your auncetours by what meanes I praye you shall you be able to atteyne to that auncient perfection of the Churche whiche flourished in the Apostles dayes to the great wonder of the world Are you so voide of all witte and reason that you thinke it ynough to say that your Churche differreth nothing from the Apostles doctrine as though meÌ„ were bound by and by to beleeue you No sir that must be shewed and prooued not by braggyng and light behauiour not by boasting and reprochfull wordes but by wonderful examples of iustice innocencie chastitie cleanes religion and charitie by a most holy life a most vertuouse conuersation and a most feruent loue of godlinesse Yea M. Haddon I tell you once againe that it is not sufficient for them that haue promised to bring the loose manners of our tyme to that
maisters doe vnderstand the Prophets and therefore they imagine that the Prophets should speake contrarieties Thinke you that God by Ieremie gaue that token to discerne a true Prophete from a false that al such as were present at the sermons of a true Prophete should foorthwith be withdrawen from wickednesse the which thing the false Prophetes could not doe If you imagine that the Prophete spake so you are much deceiued For our Lord him selfe by whose spirite all the holy Prophets were enkendled and stirred foreward speaking vnto those men that were obstinately bent in synne that shutte their eyes and stopped their eares willfully that the light of heauen might not shine vppon them or the Worde of God moue their heartes made them not to forsake their wickednesse And therefore he complayneth of the Capharnaites and suche other as withstoode his Doctrine verie obstinately What is that then that Hieremie said Dowbtles this That such as beleeued the Prophetes suche as hadde them in good estimation suche as tooke their sayinges to be the verie answeres of God if those Prophetes were sent from God there is no doubt but that they were easily brought from vnbeleefe to faith and from vice to an honest ordre of life The whiche thing when it folowed not it was a moste sure argument that they were not sent from God For example Phasur the Priest was in high reputation He bent him selfe earnestly against Hieremie Hananias desired to be called and esteemed as a Prophete He was in lyke manner an enemie to Hieremie Hieremie in those daies threatned the people that ther haÌ„ged a great plague ouer them but the other signified vnto the people with manie circumstances of words that al should be wel Many men folowed them but very fewe folowed Hieremie Nowe sir when there was such a great dissension betwene these twoo factions by what token might a man discerne whether of them was sent from God By the vertues and vices of suche as folowed either part Therfore if it had ben diligeÌ„tly marked at that time that such as folowed Phasur and Ananias or other the lyke falfe and deceitfull Prophetes prooued neuer the better but rather walowed stil most filthily in the selfe same vice as they did before might it not haue ben easily perceiued that those Prophetes vnto whom they had addicted them selues were not sent from God And contrarie wise if it had ben noted that those fewe which folowed Ieremie which resorted vnto him which gaue diligent eare vnto his doctrine did forsake sinne embrace godlines and feare the iudgementes of God they might haue iudged very well that he was sent from God and that the thinge which he spake came not from him selfe but that he vttered suche thinges onelye as he hadde learned of God Wheras therfore ther were at that â—yme many men whieh tooke vppon them the name of Prophetes and said thus saith our Lorde when in deede they had neuer heard the voice of our Lord and clawed the common people and brought them in hope of a merie worlde and said peace peace wheÌ„ no peace that is to say no great quietnes and abundaunce of thinges but an extreme calamitie hanged ouer the state of the Iewes and the common people whose eyes were wholly bent vppon them who esteemed them as menne of God were nothing the better for them but continued still in as muche wickednes as they did before doubtlesse it was euident that those menne were false Prophets and craftie crowders and that they did poison suche as they tooke vpoÌ„ them to instruct with pestilent errours The lyke might be said of the tyme of Christe and his Apostles There were Priestes and Pharisees and Saducees and Herodians all contrarie to the Doctrine of Christe Suche as folowed Christe and applied them selues with al diligence to learne his doctrine withstood synne and were inflamed with the desire of godlinesse and vertue but suche as folowed the Priestes of that time and the Pharisees were disteined with many foule vices By this token therfore it might be perceiued that Christ wrought by the holy ghost and spake the worde of God and that the Priestes and Pharisees tooke a pride vpon their owne conceite which proceded of an vnsetled and vndiscrete mind We may say the like of the Apostles who had much a do with false Priestes and Philosophers whiche were frowardly bent against the truth For such as herkened vnto the Apostles were beautifully fournished with the ornameÌ„ts of true vertue but such as went vnto the contrary part were clogged with most heiâ—ouses vices Any man therefore that was in his right wittes might well perceiue by the restimonie of Hieremie that the Apostles were sent from God and that their aduersaries were moued and stirred forward by the enemie the diuel That this is the meaning of the Prophete al men which are not obstinatly set in their owne mad and frantike opinion may see very plainely For otherwise the wisedom of God which spake in the holy Prophete should speake against it selfe the which thing if a man should but once conceiue it in his heart it were a mostâ— wicked synne and horrible offence Wee may nowe applie it vnto these newe Prophetes There was a certayne woorshipfull Prophete whom you thinke vndowbtedly to haue ben sent from heauen Many men went after him and commended him highly and garded him both with their bodies and armes and fournished him with their gooddes I will therefore demaund not of al but of such onely as did not onely loue Luther as a bowntifull and helping man but also esteemed and reuerenced him as a Prophet sent from heaueÌ„ and receiued his doctrine most willingly both with eares and heartes whether they were foorthwith chauÌ„ged in hert and whether they became any thing the better for it No they were rather made by the heariÌ„g of him much more presumpteous and proud much more incontinâ—nt and seditious much more dispiteful and outragious yea so farre foorth that Luther him self which had schooled them was not able to kepe them in order That therfore might haue ben a full proofe that Luther stoode neuer in the counsell of God For if he had stoode in the counsell of our Lord and had declared the verie wordes of God vnto such as folowed him and were named after him dowbtles there should haue ben seene some wonderfull alteration of life in them The like maie be saied of Melanchthon Zwinglius Bucer and Caluine and other the like Prophets For these men were none such as might by good example of their coÌ„tinent and honest conuersation asswage the heate of incoÌ„tinency in those that folowed them but rather out of their schooles proceded verie often vicious and incoÌ„tinent men yea and not only incoÌ„tinent but also violeÌ„t churchrobbers destroiers of good lawes wily practisers of treason against princes felowes mischieuously bent to deface al places of holines and deuotion by manslaughter bloudshead and fier Wherfore the teachers of this doctrine were not sent