thus I haue faithfully related the practice of the Reformed or Protestant Church Serg. Paul But why is this called the Reformed Church hath Christ any more Churches but one Saul No the Church of Christ is but one wheresoeuer dispersed in all the world but this Church partly through the ambition and couetousnesse of the Popes of Rome and of the rest of the chiefe of the Clergie and partly through blind deuotion became very corrupt both in doctrine and manner of seruing God wherein hauing lyon many yeares to the griefe of the truely zealous and wise who did what they could or durst to rectifie things againe but without effect at length though very loth so to doe many without feare of bodily danger separated themselues from all society and communion with those that still adliered to these curruptions teaching and holding as hath be one before deelared who notwithstanding the hot brunts of persecution which they met withall increased dayly whole Countreys and Kingdomes being in a short time by Gods prouidence ioyned vnto them And because of this reformation about which they made then protestation that simply for conscience towards God and his Truth and onely according to his written Word they thus proceeded they were called the Reformed or Protestant Church others willfully cleauing to their corruptions still and to the Pope and Roman Clergy the chiefe maintainers hereof were called the Church of Rome or the Popish Church or as they needes will haue it Roman Catholikes Serg. Paul Then it seemeth that the Church anciently one is now become two the one opposite to the other Or are they both one Church still but diuided for their contrary opinions and manners in many things Saul As the Church of Christ hath beene so it still is and euer shall bee one and not two for it is Christ Spouse which is onely one I doe not therefore acknowledge but aduisedly deny the Church of Rome to be a true Church of Christ Reu. 3.1 As the Church of Sardis had a name to be aline but was dead so it may hold this name still but is indeed a very carkasse without a soule by reason of the grosse errours therein maintained and practised for truth is the life of the Church The reformed Church then is the onely true Church neither may we returne againe to them vpon paine of damnation but they must and shall come to vs at the last for truth is stronger then all Serg. Paul But the maine truth is still maintained in the Church of Rome viz. That Iesus is the Sonne of God and hast not thou thy selfe taught 1. Cor 3. that who so buildeth vpon the foundation Christ Iesus though but hay or stubble which shall hurne yet himselfe shall escape as it were through the fire What is this but that so Christ bee cleaued vnto no erroneous opinions or practice in the seruice of God shall damne the soule Saul The Church of Rome teacheth indeed generally this truth touching Christ Iesus but in the particular explication of what they hold hereabout they doe plainly raze this foundation and so their building is not vpon the foundation Christ described in the New Testament but imagined in their owne braines Againe although the foundation were rightly held yet they are builders onely that shall be saued not destroyers or demolishers as they of the Church of Rome are Serg. Paul Wherein doe they raze the foundation Christ Saul In that they doe not rely vpon Christ only for saluation and grace For this is the property of a foundation to beare vp all the building alone if it be the only foundation as I haue taught that Christ is If then the building rest partly vpon some other foundation this is in effect razed because though this be sound yet the other vpon which it partly standeth being deceitfull and vnsound when that shall faile the whole building cannot but come downe Serg. Paul It seemeth then that Christ is the foundation to them onely that rest vpon him alone and that they which together with him rely vpon any thing else are in effect gone from the foundation and so shall haue no more benefit of it then they that hold not Christ at all Can you proue the Roman Catholikes to be such Saul There is nothing more plaine to them that will vnderstand For first when Christ only is relyed vpon and so made the onely soundation his passions alone are held to be fully satisfactory for all punishments due to vs for all our sins both temporall and eternall Secondly all merit whereby we become worthy of saluation is held to be in him onely Thirdly His mediation onely to God the Father is rested vpon to obtaine any benefit or helpe in the time of need Fourthly The beginning progresse and perfection of all grace is imputed to him onely through the working of his Spirit and nothing to a mans selfe But the contrary to all these are maintained in the Church of Rome Serg. Paul Declare this more particularly and first that they rely not vpon his passions onely as fully satisfactory Saul They say that he hath satisfied for all eternall punishments in hell but not for temporall for these are left to vs to be satisfied for partly here by acts of penance and partly hereafter in purgatory And that there are certaine lesser sinnes called veniall for which we our selues must satisfie Flatly contrary to Saint Iohn who saith 1. Ioh 1.6 the blood of Iesus Christ cleanseth vs from all sin And I haue taught that Christ hath redeemed vs from the curse of the Law being made a curse for vs Gal. 3.13 Now this curse did as well extend to temporall as eternall punishments witnesse Moses his dilating vpon it Deut. 28. and Leuit. 26. throughout which Chapters he sheweth that the curse comming by sinne is temporall Serg. Paul If Christ had satisfied herein for vs were it not iniustice in God to put his to so much smart againe daily by sickenesses losses ignominies and persecutions in the world Saul It were iniustice indeed if our sins being forgiuen and clensed away in Christs blood hee should still require vs to be temporally panished Luke 23.16 This were iust Pilates iustice I finde no fault in this man I will therefore scourge him and let him goe God forbid that wee should once thinke the most righteous Lord to be such in his proceedings It is to bee vnderstood therefore that the smart imposed vpon vs here is onely either for our triall or for our correction in loue as parents are wont to deale with their children Serg. Paul What doe they hold touching merit Saul That Christs death and passion alone are not the meritorious cause of our saluation but the blessed Virgin Mary and the holy Apostles and other Saints which haue suffered death for the Gospell haue also merited for vs and that there is merit in the sacrifice of the Masse extended to all both quicke and dead and
So that we may most truely affirme that there is no one tenent of our Church but we haue a plaine place of Scripture for it but it may truly be retorted vpon you that you haue not one plaine place for any one of your tenents or practices so that ye are faine miserably to wrest and straine any text hence alledged and when that will not doe to fly to Apochryphall bookes traditions and ridiculous fables Elym Are all these sayings in your Bible if they bee it is more then I know but sure I am that there are sentences plainly teaching the same that we doe For what else is that saying of our Sauiour This is my body and my flesh is meat indeed and blood drinke indeed and vpon this rocke will I build my Church and to thee will I giue the Keyes of the Kingdome of heauen and againe Peter feed my sheepe And touching the Church Math. 18.17 1 Tim 3.15 If he heareth not the Church let him be to thee as an Ethnicke and the Church is the ground and pillar of truth Touching other points we need none other Scripture seeing to the Church it is promised Ioh. 16.13 When he is come which is the spirit of truth he will lead you into all truth Wherefore the Church cannot erre and whatsoeuer is by her propounded as matter of faith or practice must needs then be right But bee it knowne vnto you that wee want not plaine places for particular points Touching iustification Iam. 2.24 A man is not iustified by faith onely but by workes Touching prayer for the dead There is a sinne vnto death I say not that yee should pray for it 1 Ioh. 5.16 Iam. 5.14 Luke 7.47 Math. 25. Touching extreame vnction They shall pray for him and anoint him in the name of the Lord. Touching the merit of workes Many sinnes are forgiuen her because shee hath loued much and Come ye blessed c. for I was hungry and yee fed me c. For time would faile me if I should go on to alleage all the places that plainly make for vs. Paul You doe well so to slieglit our euidences brought out of the holy Scriptures because they are so plaine that they cannot bee answered neither indeed doe your sect much acquaint your selues with the Bible for there are some students in Diuinity of many yeares that neuer read the Bible To your places therefore How doth the speech of our Sauiour make for Transubstantiation without altering or adding It is meat indeed we confesse but he saith not is meat for the body nor yet in explaining himself afterwards hath he one word intimating a bodily substance that he would giue to be fed vpon but the clean contrary for he saith Ioh. 6.63 the flesh profiteth nothing my words are spirit and life Againe for those sayings vnto Peter there is nothing plaine for Peters supremacy for his bearing vp all as a foundation and much lesse for his pretended successours the Bishops of Rome For plainly to teach these things had beene to haue said vpon thee and thy successours will I build my Church and to thee and to him that shall succeed thee in thy Bishopricke at Rome I will giue authority ouer all others But so far is the Lord from this that when there was iust occasion offered vpon the motion of the mother of Zebedees children to declare the supreme when they contended about it amongst themselues hee speaketh no word to settle the supremacy vpon any one but altogether to stop the mouth of any from once challenging it But I haue spoken sufficiently of this before so that I shall not need to adde any thing about his commission to feed his sheepe It is maruaile that when all chiefe points of faith are so plainely expressed that this which is so much stood vpon as inferiour to none should be so obscurely passed ouer Touching the Church there is nothing plainely spoken that it shall be alwayes visible but onely it may be implyed that as long as there are Christians to doe those mutuall offices of reproouing one another for sinne there shall be a discipline exercised in the Church how corrupt soeuer for the chastisement of such as are complained of as manifest transgressors of the Law the iust proceedings whereof notwithstanding the corruptions are of force to the terror of malefactors For that saying tell the Church at that time had reference to a most corrupt Church of Scribes and Pharisees whose authority was yet by the Lord established saying Math. 23.1 whatsoeuer they bid you obserue that obserue and doe So that from hence nothing more can be rightly taught no not by inference but that there shall alwayes be some visible Church good or bad which we also acknowledge But in case that there bee two such Churches together who doubteth forsaking that which is corrupt to goe to the best and soundest Touching error from which you seeke to exempt your Church because the Church is called the gound and pillar of truth what is this to the present Church of Rome the sinke of most grosse errors and superstitions The true Church indeed such as it was in those dayes founded vpon the Prophets and Apostles Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner slone Ephes 2.20 was the ground of truth because therein the truth was preserued and vpheld and wheresoeuer it is so at this day that Church is likewise the ground and pillar of truth But it doth not necessarily follow that wheresoeuer the Church is whether sound or corrupt it is the ground of truth for so much as the truth held and eleaued vnto in all things maketh the Church the pillar and ground of truth and not the Church that to be true whatsoeuer she shall think good to propound For otherwise Christ the Prophets Apostles with their dictates institutions and writings should not bee a ground vnto men succeeding and inferiour to them but these men should bee a ground vnto them which were absurd And the same I answer to that promise of the spirit it was peculiar to the Apostles and special instruments stirred vp for those times to be so guided into all truth as not to erre because what came from them was to bee a ground to the faithfull in all succeeding ages and it is most palpably wrested to your Church now And if your fundamentall places be thus impertinently alledged the rest will fall without any labour at the least most worthy Sergius you may be able to iudge hereof by that which hath beene already spoken in laying open the faith of the reformed Church Serg. Paul When these places were first alledged by Elymas I thought it impossible to answer them and therefore did begin to incline to thinke better of the Roman Church then you had perswaded me but now I see that they are but the painting and colouring of a deformed face being without all true beauty And for the places omitted I haue them
AN ANTIDOTE AGAINST POPERY Confected out of Scriptures Fathers Councels and Histories WHEREIN DIALOGVE-wise are shewed the points grounds and antiquitie of the Protestant Religion and the first springing vp of the points of Popery together with the Antichristianisme thereof Being alone sufficient to inable any Protestant of meane capacitie to vnderstand and yeeld a reason of his Religion and to incounter with and foyle the Aduersary By Iohn Mayer B. D. and Pastor of the Church of little Wratting in Suffolke LONDON Printed by M. F. for Iohn Grismand and are to be sold at his Shop in Pauls Alley at the signe of the Gunne 1625. TO THE HIGH AND MIGHTY JAMES BY THE grace of God King of Great Britaine France and Ireland Defender of the Faith c. Dread Soueraigne AFter that I had compiled this ensâ—ing Dialogue I thought your Maiestie the most fit Maecenas for it both in respect of the matter and manner The matter is a Dispute about Religion both Protestant and Popish the manner is by vsurping certaine names occurring in the Acts of the holy Apostles and accommodating them so as may best befit these times amongst which the chiefe is Sergius Paulus before whom Paul and Elymas enter the lists with an ayme chiefely at the ouercomming of this honourable person The issue is according to Pauls desire the setling of Sergius Paulus in the truth so that with him there was no more place now for Elymas Your Maiestie hath beene much conuersant in disputations and now at length I vvill not say being setled for it appeareth sufficiently that there hath euer been a setlednesse and resolution in your Royall brest but not thinking good to lend an eare any longer to the friuolous arguments of such as haue sought your auersion from the Truth your MAIESTIE hath prouided that they shall haue no more copÄe of disputing within your whole iurisdiction The Worke I confesse is too sleighty to bee presented before so large an vnderstanding and the Author too meane to presume to so high a patronage Epistle Dedicatory vpon the Lords Prayer But forasmuch as your Maiestie hath acknowledged it to haue beene your owne course to dedicate your royall writings to fit persons with whom each Tract might best suite my hope is that my boldnesse shall haue pardon if in following so worthy an example I haue aspired to this dedication It hath bred much sollicitude in your Maiestie as your late directions touching preachers and preaching doe testifie to consider the dayly increase of Popish superstition euen within your Maiesties Dominions And wee your faithfull subiects cannot but haue a sympathy herein for which cause wee highly applauding that direction of instructing in the Principles of Religion doe apply our selues diligently to this Catecheticall kinde of teaching if haply the mobile vulgus might thus bee faster grounded And for mine owne part according to that slender skill which GOD hath giuen mee I haue by vvriting endeauoured to further this kinde of teaching English Catechisme and to hold to the patterne of the lesser authorized Catechisme for the auoiding of confusion by an vniforme proceeding wherein I haue not beene altogether frustrated of my end neither there being many Reuerend Diuines and others amongst whom this labour of mine hath beene so accepted as that it hath long agoe come to the third impression Now if my coniecture deceiue mee not another good helpe to preserue from this infection would bee some Antidote of our tenents and grounds and of Popish tenents and practices in the worship of God without all ground set vp either by aduantage taken of the darknesse or by force there beeing none able to make resistance in seuerall times and ages of the world especially if it might bee perspicuous and plaine to any capacitie and briefe for euery ones leisure and abilitie And such is this which I here present vnto your Sacred Maiestie the which or the like vnto which I could wish that euery one who is not furnished with better would make his vade mecum That Reuerend and learned Bishop of Meath hath lately put out a Worke in answere to a Iesuite of the noueltie of Poperie in so complete a manner as that a man would thinke as it was said of the answer of our blessed Sauiour none should dare to aske that question any more If this of mine comming after it should seeme superfluous my apologie is that our Church besides the greater hath also the lesser Catechisme Babes must haue their prouision as well as those that are stronger Your Maiesties care of the good of this Church committed vnto you herein like to that of Constantine in the matter of Arâ—ianisme as it hath much reioyced my heart and the hearts of many thousands that pray for the prosperitie of Sion so it hath incouraged mee to presse into your Sacred presence with this my Goates-haire not being able to bring better Your Maiestie I know hath no need of such Tracts but many of vs that bring presents in this kinde may bee glad to learne from your Pen and to receiue knowledge from your lips yea 1 King 10. â— blessed are they that stand alwayes in thy presence to heare thy wisedome Yet vouchsafe I beseech your Maiestie to suffer it to passe vnder the protection of your countenance to your people and I doubt not but the Protestant Religion shall hereby appeare vnto them as it is so amiable and rightly grounded and the Religion of the Church of Rome so corrupt and peruerting the grounds as that thousands which shall attentiuely and without preiudice reade it shall herein blesse God for you some that were ignorant of the differences of these religions and so standing indifferently affected being better informed some that were wauering through the seeming truth of that heresie being confirmed and some that were simply seduced and gone from vs being againe to the truth reduced to the great glory of God and to the fulfilling of the number of most loyall and faithfull subiects in whom the heart of your Maiesty may most safely trust The Father of lights who hath so enlightned your knowledge the Son that life who hath so viuified your heart and the Spirit that sire who hath so inflamed your zeale for the truth increase confirme and prosper this your knowledge life and zeale to the benefiting of many soules and to the ioyfull giuing vp of your Maiesties Accounts at the great day of reckoning Amen praieth he who is Your Maiesties most humbly deuoted subiect and seruant IOHN MAYER To all that conscionably inquire after the Truth that they may be saued both of the reformed Religion and of the Romane Catholike COurteous Reader thou mayest haply blame mee for my ouer-diligence in writing-so much and now vpon a subiect so throughly canuased already in diuers bookes of learned Authors But know that I haue beene drawne to doe this by the sollicitation of others being lâ—th of my selfe to interrupt my course in another tract
to your colourable Heresies I say that all which you haue produced to disgrace the Catholike Religion as nouell are nothing but cauils For if our Religion be new and so faire degenerated as that the foundation is hereby ouerthrowne there was no Religion and so no true Church of God in the world for many hundred yeares seeing by your owne confession the Church which was aboue 1000 or 1300 yeares agoe had many customes and held many things which you doe not at this day And with what face then can you alledge them as being on your side so commonly as you doe as though your Church were all one with theirs when as it is plaine to any that will vnderstand that they are our Fathers and not yours and such as suffered death our Martyrs sealing vp with their blood the Romane Cathohke Religion and not your new deuised way of seruing God without crossing Chrysme Holy water Prayers for the dead deuotion to the Saints c. and full of carnall liberty in all things pleasing to the flesh as mariages of Priests and worldly liuing of all without any renouncing of secular affaires for the seruice of God and repenting only with a little griefe no workes of penance being after required with many other points of licentiousnesse If any held with this Religion in all these points tell who they were when and where they liued if you can till within these hundred yeares and that is as late as the newest of our points to grant you your owne saying Paul Neuer were any so iustly to bee taxed for cauilling as you for what can it else bee when all your points in that manner you hold them haue beene plainly shewed to bee new to fly to this generall reason for euasion The Church in the time of these ancients was the same with ours in all matters of faith as I haue fully declared neither can a few ceremonies since more corrupted and therefore by vs abolished estrange our Church from theirs no more then the breaking downe of the brasen Serpent and seruing God without it in Hezekiahs dayes estranged the Church then from the Church in the time of Moses As for the holy Martyrs it is a most vaine bragge that they sealed your Religion with their blood which was not then in question It was rather our Religion that they sealed seeing they commonly suffered for such zeale to Christ as that together with him they would not worship Idols as we also refuse to doe For holding the same points with vs in euery particular it is not necessary to shew any that did it is sufficient to proue our Religion true and Apostolicall to haue shewed the rising vp of all those rites that we ahue done away to haue beene long after the Apostles dayes And for carnall liberty whereby you seeke to disgrace the truth herein you blaspheme the very liberty of the Gospell after the manner of the malicious Pharisees who cryed out vpon Christ Behold a glution and drinker of wine a friend of Publicans and sinners When hee did no more then hee might in taking liberty herein For euen so wee maintaine liberty of mariage to all men and reiect your superstitious austerities because mariage is honourable amongst all men and wee would not through a multitude of obseruances make Christs easie yoake and light burden heauy Heb. 13.4 like to that vnder the Law of which Saint Peter complaineth that it was such that neither we nor our Fathers were able to beare Act. 15.10 And if experience may be heard this your taking vpon you to be stricter then God shall bee abundantly conuinced to opon a farre wider gap to licentiousnesse seeing all he world ringeth of the carnality vncleannesse and dissolutenesse of your very votaries and Priests and of Rome it selfe aboue all And it is obserued that your very Confessions and appointments of penance is turned into a fountaine of liberty seeing more rioes and disorders are against the time of shrift in Italy comitted then all the yeare before Serg. Paul But can you not show any that were of your reformed Religion for substance and matter of faith from the time of the ancient Fathers till Luther That was a very long distance of time of about 1000 yeares Doe you hold that God was without a true visible Church all this time Paul God was neuer without a true Church neither was she hid long at any time For till the Pope was made an Idoll and idolatry with Images and with the Masse tooke place in the Church and the Virgin Mary was made ioynt mediator with Christ it was a true Church which was till about Anno 700. And when the Latine Church was by these abhominations corrupted the Greek Church still continued more sound for they withstood the Popes supremacy opposed images held no transubstantiation neither subscribed to the points maintained by the Romanists till the Councell of Florence Anno 1439 at what time I haue also shewed how much this subscription was mis-liked by the body of that Church So that if no where else yet in Grecia the true Church was to be found till then But there wanted not oppugners of Images and of the Popes supremacy in other places at the same times The Councell of Franckford was famous for determining against Images as I haue also declared Betweene 700 and Anno 800 Albertus Gallus a French Bishop opposed himselfe against the Pope in his Legate Boniface Hist Magd. Cent. 8. c. 10. and with him one Clemens a presbyter and Saemson who were therefore excommunicated by the Pope and imprisoned And about the same time Iohan Mailrosius and Claudius Clemens sent from Scotland first Professors of learning in the Vniuersity of Paris denyed to subscribe to the Romish superstitions Betweene 800 and 900 Claudius Taurinensis Bishop of Thurin in Piemont denyed the Pope to bee an Apostolike Bishop for he is not sayd he an Apostolike Bishop that sitteth in the Apostolike chaire but that fulfilleth an Apostolike office Whights way to the Church p. 386. He cast images out of the Church and impugned the worshipping of the crosse About that time were Ioh. Scotus also and Bertram that denyed the reall presence Anno 847. Thergandus Bishop of Treniris inueighed against Pope Nicolas calling him Antichrist Auentin Reginold lib. 2. for which he was excommunicated and afterwards staine Betweene An. 900 and â—000 Otho impugned the supremacy Uhite ibid. and Arnulphus called the Pope Antichrist Betweene An. 1000 and 1100 Berengarius impugned the reall presence of whom I haue already spoken About that time Leaskerius an Archbishop in France was of the same opinion Berweene An. 1100 and 1200. A certaine Bishop of Florence preached Hist Magd. Cent. 12. that Antichrist vvas come in the time of Pascalis the second Also one Francis an Abbor and Petrus do Beuis a Priest impugned the reall presence with many other Popish points and Bernard is famous for many points against Popery